A cry for help - Well did he?

[bossman]

This subject will not be easy for some of us to debate, and for this I apologise.

However, I was watching an old copy of the 20/20 Elvis the Cover Up from around 79?

The question raised was did Elvis actually intend to kill himself, was it natural or a cry for help? - A hard question to even consider...

But looking back nearly 30 years on, can we really rule this out?

Now I am not one to dwell on this era of Elvis but it?s a big question that requires an intelligent debate.

Let?s look at the Facts alone...

FACT - He had 14 drugs listed in his body after the autopsy.
Codeine being one of them, and according to reports, he was allergic to this drug and he knew it!

FACT - He took three "attack packs" within hours, before retiring to the bathroom, hardly the act of someone who was needed to be up and ready in a few hours to go on a new tour and prove to the waiting world he was not addicted to drugs, as previously ousted in the "Elvis - What Happened?" Book, released the previous day!!!!

FACT - This was the night before he was to leave for his 6th tour of 1977 and the first one where he had been exposed to the public for his addiction to prescribed drugs. Was the "shame" too much for him to face?

FACT - He had told one of the Stanley boys. "This will be the last time I will see you on this plain", only a day before (Ok not a FACT, it was from a Stanley boy and it could be a load of old bull)

FACT - He did have a great knowledge of the effect of prescribed drugs, surely he knew that taking this amount of drugs would cause him to be exposed to great danger?, I know jack about drugs, but I do know if I took a quarter of what Elvis took on that morning, I would not be able to perform or even survive to tell the tale?

I have checked for Codeine and the side effects of the drug, check this out...

Here are some of the side effects of Codeine alone:

FACT?
Difficulty breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, tongue, or face; or hives
Slow, weak breathing;
Seizures; cold, clammy skin and sweating
Severe weakness
Unconsciousness
Constipation
Dizziness, tiredness, or light headedness, muscle twitches;
Decreased urination
Decreased sex drive

? IMPORTANT - The most serious interactions affecting codeine are with those drugs that also cause sedation.

Now add another 13 sedatives to this and it sounds a real fun way to spend an evening!

Look at Elvis' health during the last year, bloated, tiered and yes, constipated, to such an extent the guy was in agony....Obviously the drugs had severely effected Elvis.

So back to the question raised?

Did he do it to get out of appearing on tour?

Was it a cry for help or a pure accidental O/D - "Polypharmacy - a cocktail of drugs"?

Or do we go with the "Heart Attack" theory?

Well in a manner of speaking, his heart did give up on that fateful day, so no one is lying about this, but the reasons behind the heart attack must surly be the amount of drugs taken on the morning of the 16th.

If we agree on this, then we must ask

Did he?

[mn-designs]

Great question you put up here!
I think Elvis had a lot to life for, his daughter was at graceland at that time, we all know how much he loved her and he didn't want to see that Lisa was hurt in anyway, so way kill yourself with Lisa around?
And didn't he tell a lot of his buddies that he was going to do the best tour he ever did? To prove everyone wrong about his appearance ect.
And why -if he wanted to kill himself- did he played racketball that evening and played some songs on the piano?
So there were no such plans for killing himself.
All those stupid facts that were showed in that show, were based on almost nothing, only to fill a 1 hour show.
We all know that Elvis wasn't in top shape in june 1977, but there are some pictures going around from august 1977, that are showing a trimmed down Elvis, his face isn't that blown up anymore, his complete body was showing a more normal shape.
The only reason for all those medications, that i can think of, is that he wanted to take those for one last time, and from that point on no more drugs. But that we will never know, cause that package of drugs was 1 to many. And please remember that he had 3 heartattacks allready, wich he didn't know, cause of all those pills he took, he didn't feel a thing with all those pills anymore. If there was just 1 person who could tell him the truth about those **** pills..maybe he would be still here...if ..if...if..
I think we never find out the truth about that...but for sure he didn't kill himself!
He even planned a gospel tour for the new tours in 1978..according to Charlie Hodge. He also told in his video -the elvis i knew- that elvis had cancer, bonecancer to be exact. That Elvis found that out only a few weeks before his death, and Charlie was the only person who Elvis told that to. And that Elvis told him not to say a word to anyone about the cancer. And Charlie was a real close friend to Elvis, so i believe his story. For the persons who didn't see the video by Charlie Hodge, please try to get it, it's a amazing story that he is telling there.

[0349054]

This subject will not be easy for some of us to debate, and for this I apologise.

However, I was watching an old copy of the 20/20 Elvis the Cover Up from around 79?

The question raised was did Elvis actually intend to kill himself, was it natural or a cry for help? - A hard question to even consider...

But looking back nearly 30 years on, can we really rule this out?

Now I am not one to dwell on this era of Elvis but it?s a big question that requires an intelligent debate.

Let?s look at the Facts alone...

FACT - He had 14 drugs listed in his body after the autopsy.
Codeine being one of them, and according to reports, he was allergic to this drug and he knew it!

FACT - He took three "attack packs" within hours, before retiring to the bathroom, hardly the act of someone who was needed to be up and ready in a few hours to go on a new tour and prove to the waiting world he was not addicted to drugs, as previously ousted in the "Elvis - What Happened?" Book, released the previous day!!!!

FACT - This was the night before he was to leave for his 6th tour of 1977 and the first one where he had been exposed to the public for his addiction to prescribed drugs. Was the "shame" too much for him to face?

FACT - He had told one of the Stanley boys. "This will be the last time I will see you on this plain", only a day before (Ok not a FACT, it was from a Stanley boy and it could be a load of old bull)

FACT - He did have a great knowledge of the effect of prescribed drugs, surely he knew that taking this amount of drugs would cause him to be exposed to great danger?, I know jack about drugs, but I do know if I took a quarter of what Elvis took on that morning, I would not be able to perform or even survive to tell the tale?

I have checked for Codeine and the side effects of the drug, check this out...

Here are some of the side effects of Codeine alone:

FACT?
Difficulty breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, tongue, or face; or hives
Slow, weak breathing;
Seizures; cold, clammy skin and sweating
Severe weakness
Unconsciousness
Constipation
Dizziness, tiredness, or light headedness, muscle twitches;
Decreased urination
Decreased sex drive

? IMPORTANT - The most serious interactions affecting codeine are with those drugs that also cause sedation.

Now add another 13 sedatives to this and it sounds a real fun way to spend an evening!

Look at Elvis' health during the last year, bloated, tiered and yes, constipated, to such an extent the guy was in agony....Obviously the drugs had severely effected Elvis.

So back to the question raised?

Did he do it to get out of appearing on tour?

Was it a cry for help or a pure accidental O/D - "Polypharmacy - a cocktail of drugs"?

Or do we go with the "Heart Attack" theory?

Well in a manner of speaking, his heart did give up on that fateful day, so no one is lying about this, but the reasons behind the heart attack must surly be the amount of drugs taken on the morning of the 16th.

If we agree on this, then we must ask

Did he?

Elvis' drug abuse was a means for him to cope with being Elvis Presley.

As for the amount for drugs in his body after the autopsy the amount varies depending on what source you believe.

Elvis often took a lot of packs of drugs - he was addicted. He had a remarkable toleration level as well. As for him needing to be up and coherent within a few hours, Elvis often wasnt coherent especially during the last year or so of his life. Indeed many of the guys had to wait for him to call down on the intercom to know what state he would be in, sometimes he would be ok, others he would be way off.

I'm sure Elvis felt a lot of shame from the book being published, but the truth often does hurt.

Stanley is about as reliable as Scatter for facts or quotes!

Elvis often took that amount and more than he took on August 16th 1977. Of course he knew the effects of the drugs, but I don't think he thought he was contributing to his death. He thought he could get off them whenever he wanted, believed he had a special psychological disposition which prevented him from becoming physically dependent on drugs.

Codeine is in many over the counter pain remeides. It's in Solpadine for instance. Yes Elvis had many health problems in his last year, I don't think he abused drugs as you propose to get out of touring, rather he used them to continue it in my opinion. Being on stage was about the only thing he got off on towards the end, it's as simple as that. As for what triggered the heart attack, who knows? We can all speculate, and without a doubt his lifestyle and drug abuse over the decade before his death and even further beyond that led to his untimely passing. Whether what he ingested on the morning of August 16th 1977 triggered his heart attack, I don't know.

[RS277]

There is no question Elvis was dependant on prescription medications. Elvis' abuse can be dated back to the Army day's, i.e.taking uppers to stay awake for night duty.

As the years went by, sure the doses increased. The more frequent you use a medication, the more you have to take to make it work. As far as the side effects, all narcotics have side effects. Some minor, some major, most subside after several doses. Some people get them, some people don't.

Another problem was the doctors. Them, like most of us, would have done anything to get close to Elvis. I'm not saying most of us would have over prescibed medications, but I guess that was their "in" with Elvis. It's also well documented you didn't say no to Elvis.

I don't believe Elvis considered himself a drug addict, but he obviously knew he was in trouble. As far as what the Stanley brothers say.....I agree, Scatter the monkey was more reliable.

As with most addictions, the biggest problem is denial. An addict, whether it by alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc. Don't believe they have a problem. Until that is realized, there's nobody going to stop anything.

As with taking any medications, it may fix the problem your taking it for, but it has some type of effect on something else. Taking Tylenol for a headache makes your headache go away, but prolonged use ruins you liver. My best quess is, that many years of taking medications eventually effected and ultimately stopped Elvis heart. We may never know for sure, just like the doctors who prescribed pills for Elvis when he was alive, the doctors continued doing for Elvis after he passed. The autopsy was rushed, never photograped, the brain and stomach contents never preserved but destroyed, and a rush to label the cause of death as Cardiac arrythmia.

Whatever the cause, Elvis lived his life the way he choose. Elvis did what he wanted, when he wanted and how he wanted. For me, it doesn't matter what the cause of death was, it doesn't change the fact he's gone.

[0349054]

He started the pills back in the 50's on the road. He took Gladys' diet pills and I think it was Dewey Phillips who first gave him amphetemines, and No Doz or something like that.

[TCE]

There are many facts and also many rumoursconcerning the drugsand medication. So much that you can't tell anymore what is correct info and what is trash. I only know that Elvis used those medicines and drugs for many years. So I think he would have died sooner (mid 70's), when his health wasn't so good and he was overtiered. Also most medication that Elvis used was legal and was prescribed to Elvis, because he really needed them. (As we all know, Elvis had some severe illnesses and that's a fact!) As for the uppers and downers: Elvis led a very bussy and stressful live and without those uppers and downers (it's a circle you get in to and hard to get out) he couldn't have maneged to keep up that long. The story even goes that Elvis got amphitamines in the beginning without even knowing it! They told him they where vitamine-A shots. And by the time he realised that it was something else he was addicted to it. Ofcourse I can imagine if you get something and you feel great with it you go on using it, without thinking about the conseqences. (Take those youngsters who use XTC. They know it is bad, but still they use it) Elvis had times where he felt lonely and hurt and I think he wanted to be clean again, but didn't know how. If you listen to songs like: Help me, Help me make it through the night. solitaire, lead me guide me, Where no one stands alone, Talk about the good times etc. I get the feeling that maybe he was trying to get help through his songs.
I don't think he commited suicide. He loved his daughter and fans too much to this to them. And why killing himself on the toilet? I think his body was just too tiered to go on. By the way there is another rumour that claims Elvis was murderd. Someone switch some medication that killed him. (Maybe the codiene?) We know that Elvis had enemies and some where from the mob. And they know how to get rid of someone. Who knows, maybe this rumour is true. I only want to show that it is easy to make a story so believable that it sounds true. Sadly know one will ever know the truth.


Be safe and take care,

Christel (TCE)

[Cryogenic]

You're reading into things that don't exist.

Whether what he ingested on the morning of August 16th 1977 triggered his heart attack, I don't know.

I believe he suffered a Depression of the Central Nervous System.

His brain stopped sending the proper signals to his heart/lungs, thus, his cells were deprived of oxygen and he died. I'm not sure if he suffered a conventional heart attack at all. "Cardiac arrhythmia" is an umbrella term for any and all kinds of rhythmic discrepancies within the heart; it can be anything from a quick fluttering that we all sometimes get (e.g. "my heart just skipped a beat") to lethal myocardial infarctions (heart attacks). However, when this term was publically given within hours/days of Elvis' death, the person(s) giving it KNEW it would be interpreted at the extreme end of the spectrum as a "heart attack" - thus sparing Elvis Presley from the ugly truth getting released to all and sundry. Clearly, this bid worked - though the subsequent leaks about drug dependency (the catalyst being "Elvis: What Happened?") has muddied things. Now people seem to believe he had a drug-induced heart attack. But his heart wasn't affected directly; it was his brain/spinal cord that failed which subsequently caused other organ failures. That's a pretty extreme death and not as straightforward as the myth that now exists suggests.

[KPM]

Didnt we just visit this territory in the topic about Elvis and suicide which "the Headhunter Stanley" is trying to sell to everyone. Bossman if you go to that thread you can see a lot of posts about this subject.

[THENATUREBOY]

I dont think Elvis ever made a cry for help or any attempt for help at all. I think Elvis, as many people close to him have said, never reached out to get help, and didnt try to help himself. Elvis knew what he was doing and for some reason, I think he really thought that he wasnt hurting himself or couldnt hurt himself.

[Cryogenic]

I think that Jerry Schilling nailed it on the "Elvis by the Presleys" DVD. Paraphrasing:

Elvis was a sensitive man pretending to be a strong man. He didn't mind helping you but he didn't really want anybody helping him.

[KPM]

I think that Jerry Schilling nailed it on the "Elvis by the Presleys" DVD. Paraphrasing:

Elvis was a sensitive man pretending to be a strong man. He didn't mind helping you but he didn't really want anybody helping him.

I agree 100%. In the south its a sign of weakness to need help. You had to stand on your own(in their thinking) Sometimes people never realize their thought process has a lot going on , down deep that affects you in every way shape and form. Things that are there but you never put it together to see. You just don't know its even a factor.