View Poll Results: What did Elvis need for a new challenge?

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  • Rest

    38 27.94%
  • England?

    3 2.21%
  • Worldwide Tour?

    75 55.15%
  • A Star is Born?

    20 14.71%
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Thread: Some Vegas Questions???

  1. #1
    Mad Tigers
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    Post Some Vegas Questions???

    Hi everybody on TCB World!

    First of all I want to thank you so much for all of your hard work and effort in helping keep the memory of Elvis alive and prospering! This is an awesome sight! I was wondering if I could ask everyone some questions:

    #1 Why after summer 1974 season at Las Vegas did things change (end of the 5 year napkin contract)? Why did Elvis start off in April of 75' (for the new building?) in stead of January? Things were never the same in Vegas, less shows, only appeared once in 76' and none in 77'.

    #2 If he had lived was Vegas no longer a option for him? Was he just sick of Vegas or did he simply need to be challenged?

    #3 Why is it so hard to get sound boards from the 73',75',76 seasons?

    #4 Finally (in your opinion) if Elvis had lived, would he still be as great in life as the image has grown to in death?

    Thanks so much!

    Greg
    I don't know anything about music.

  2. #2
    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    Vegas...? Yuck..

    I'm sorry to say, but I guess that Las Vegas is deadly for anyone with real musical and/or artistic talent. It's easier for clowns, illusionists and glamour-chickens to survive there than it is for someone who really wants to do something new and different.

    According to my information, Elvis got sick at the end of '74 and had a very difficult time in the first few months of '75. The tabloids were spreading a lot of lies and rumors about him, and he was having trouble with the image of him being 'fat and forty'.

    Well, to be honest, I think that if you compare Elvis at his heaviest with Pavarotti, our man would appear a bit skinny, frankly said. And some people just turn 40, isn't that obvious? Of course, our highly competitive and superficial society demands us to be young and if we aren't, they want their money back. My best guess is that if Elvis would have lived, he would have turned old very gracefully, just like Leslie Nielsen did - he's also still very handsome for a man of that age!

    Elvis was already having a lot of trouble in Vegas in '73 - throat problems, illness.. And if you listen to some of his shows from this period, he can be heard laughing hysterically and be plain angry just a few minutes later. There's a FTD release which portrays this quite well, I think it was 'Closing Night'.

    In '74, he started out the Vegas season quite well in January, but when he made his return in August the crowd didn't seem to appreciate his renewed set list, with a lot of more recent, serious and emotional songs. The crowd only seemed to respond to songs like Hound Dog and Love Me Tender and of course we all know that Elvis at that time had matured a lot and these oldies weren't that important to him anymore.

    His physical and emotional condition seemed to worsen in August, September and October and I guess this definitely had something to do with him not being recognized as an intellectual singer. People expected him to be a '50's rock'n roll singer' and while he was busy entertaining the crowd, the Colonel just seemed to waste this hard-earned money on cards, dice, poker and the casino..

    According to my information, Elvis did get sick of Las Vegas. I don't why there are so few soundboards from this period, I haven't got an idea. I, for instance, would love to hear a soundboard from '76 because he was in fine shape vocally and these shows are definitely not so bad as the majority seems to be thinking. Elvis also appeared to be moving away from the overloaded Vegas sound and tried once more to go back to his roots, playing the guitar on That's Allright Mama, Blue Christmas, Are You Lonesome Tonight.. And of course he also showed the crowd he was a fine singer with operatic songs like Hurt. I guess this one fitted his voice and mood at this time!

    I guess that if Elvis had lived maybe people would have gotten a more realistic perspective on how the man was/is - now folks just seem to concentrate on the lies spread in cheap books like 'Elvis, What Happened' with made-up stories about the drugs, the women and all that jazz.

    Of course, Elvis wasn't like the hippies at all in the sense that he did need his medication, but he definitely stayed away from street drugs like crack or heroin. Most often people who are addicted to this shit are skinny to the bone and Elvis was a good looking man with a liquid problem in his body due to the medication, that's why he appeared chubbier than he really was.

    Just my opinion folks, that's all
    Last edited by EnigmaticSun; 08-10-2005 at 01:55 PM. Reason: minor error

  3. #3
    Mad Tigers
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    Post Come On Guys Give Your Opinions

    Come On Guys Give Your Opinions

    I am really curious as to what ya'll think about these questions????
    I don't know anything about music.

  4. #4
    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    well, well, well..

    Quote Originally Posted by eap1977
    Come On Guys Give Your Opinions

    I am really curious as to what ya'll think about these questions????
    I gave my opinion but nobody else seems to care.. Did I say too much, perhaps?

  5. #5
    Mad Tigers
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    Cool Yes Thank-you so much!

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun
    I gave my opinion but nobody else seems to care.. Did I say too much, perhaps?
    HI, yes thank-you so very much for taking the time to give your opinion!!!

    I was hoping to get others to add to what you stated, getting several different ideals.
    Thanks again!
    I don't know anything about music.

  6. #6
    TCB Mafia Joe Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun
    I gave my opinion but nobody else seems to care.. Did I say too much, perhaps?
    Excellent writeup, unfortunately I'm on my way to work, but I'll respond later.

  7. #7
    Cadillac King richardo316's Avatar
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    Smile some vegas questions

    i think had they booked him on a world tour it would have rejuvinated him peronally and emotionally. i think if they would have said take a year off and then planned a world tour would have given him the joy he'd been looking for.

  8. #8
    TCB Mafia Raised on Rock's Avatar
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    As far as I know after the succes of the NBC Tv Show and the Memphis Sessions Elvis wasn?t thinking in Vegas back on '69, he wanted to go on tour, and he wanted to tour europe so bad. Then Coronel came with the Vegas thing, yes I think the Coronel always was afraid to lose control over Elvis, he knew that after the 68 comback he was gonna be even bigger than in the 50?s, he didn?t wanted to lose his golden gosse.

    Anyway, the true is that Elvis never was very aware of his own potential, I don?t know, is just my point of view, what I mean is, he didn?t needed the Colonel at all by '68, maybe the Colonel was the best choice back in ?56, maybe he was the only thing he had to hold on back in '60, but he didn?t need him in '69 he proved that the Colonel was off after those movies and after what the NBC could have been if he (ELvis) didn?t stan up against the Colonel idea of just do some nice christams songs in a living room. But Elvis was loyal, he decided to keep in with the Colonel; now I respect that on Elvis, but the thing is that Colonel abused Elvis loyality, the Coronel was up for big cash with no risk, and thats what killed Elvis artistically, he needed the risk and challenge. An it wasn?t just the Colonel, a lot of people involved on Elvis only cared about $$$ and the industry simply exploited Elvis and burned him out, and I include a big chunck of the fans there, the ones that became Elvis fundamentalist, alienated people who wanted him to do the Jailhouse rock again and again, and simply didn?t care for any new direction that Elvis attempted to take on his shows.

    Now Elvis knew that, he was no fool, but is not as easy as a lot of people think to run away from that vicious cirlce, I think Elvis was actually trying to escape from all that back on 76 and 77, he was silently planing a new master move like back in ?68, but unfortunatley his health didn?t help and he didn?t have the vital force to surprice us one more time.

    Back on the question, I think Elvis enjoyied him self in Vegas from 69 to august 70, and he said well all right with it on '71 and '72, but after the Aloha Vegas was something boring to him, and by 75 it was unbearable, just like those hollywood movies after 65.

    On my ideal Elvis world, I think that after the November 1970 Tour, he must take a rest, start '71 with a challenging recording session (not reapeat the nashville formula, not that the 71 sessions are bad, they?re not, but, the idea is to do something diferent and the true is that by the June nashvillesessions he was kind of bored with that), and then start a world wide tour, starting in New York Madison Square Garden, yea, a year before, the England, Europe, Eastrn Europe, Japan, what ever, and close the tour back in the us wiht a shoe in Memphis.

    On my ideal but not that ideal Elvis world I think that after the Aloha, a world tour may have rejuveneted him as an artist, and of course made it feel better and distractig him from all the divorce thing.


    Well that?s some of the stuff that cross my mind now.

  9. #9
    TCB Mafia Raised on Rock's Avatar
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    About the poll: What did Elvis needed to... Rest, England, Worldwide Tour, A Star is Born.

    I think it depends at which point youre talking about; around 76-77, I think Rest and A Star Is Born was the thing. He was kind of tired of the concert formula that became his shows, he needed time to desintoxicate from all those ultrafast versions of his '50 hits and all the Vegas entretained parafernalia to get an edge to his music on stage again. Some nice rest and rpove him self as an actor one more time would to the trick on him one again.

    But for example, back on '71, I think he didn?t needed Hollywood at all, some shows in England somewhere in between the January and the August Vegas season could have make him to keep in the good vibe of the last two succesfull years.

    And around the time after the Aloha from Hawaii concert, go back to Vegas was a boomer, a World Wide Tour was the perfect move then, Japan, Australia, Europe and so on.

  10. #10
    TCB Mafia Joe Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eap1977
    Hi everybody on TCB World!

    First of all I want to thank you so much for all of your hard work and effort in helping keep the memory of Elvis alive and prospering! This is an awesome sight! I was wondering if I could ask everyone some questions:

    #1 Why after summer 1974 season at Las Vegas did things change (end of the 5 year napkin contract)? Why did Elvis start off in April of 75' (for the new building?) in stead of January? Things were never the same in Vegas, less shows, only appeared once in 76' and none in 77'.

    #2 If he had lived was Vegas no longer a option for him? Was he just sick of Vegas or did he simply need to be challenged?

    #3 Why is it so hard to get sound boards from the 73',75',76 seasons?

    #4 Finally (in your opinion) if Elvis had lived, would he still be as great in life as the image has grown to in death?

    Thanks so much!

    Greg
    Hi Greg,
    #1- The truth be known, Elvis became extremely bored with Vegas as early as 1971, yet the Colonel locked him into another long term contract. The joke is that even though EP shattered every attendance record in Vegas, he wasn't even the highest paid performer. I'm not sure of what new building your talking about.

    #2-Vegas was always an option for him given his success their, but he preferred the road, no doubt.

    #3- Don't know.

    #4- I would like to think so. The book from the his bodyguards had just come out before his upcoming tour, so I'm sure it would have motivated him, alas we'll never know.

    Just to add a bit to this, the Colonel was a degenerate gambler, literally losing millions of dollars at the Hilton, thus making lower contracts for his client. Because of his "illness" if you will, he increased his % with Elvis, to 50% and proceeded to rob him blind all through the seventies. The Colonel really turned out to be a piece of scrap. Perhaps this would explain part of the reason why EP hated Vegas, at least later on.

  11. #11
    Mad Tigers
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    Post Thanks for responding... Here is Jordan's opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Car
    Hi Greg,
    #1- The truth be known, Elvis became extremely bored with Vegas as early as 1971, yet the Colonel locked him into another long term contract. The joke is that even though EP shattered every attendance record in Vegas, he wasn't even the highest paid performer. I'm not sure of what new building your talking about.

    #2-Vegas was always an option for him given his success their, but he preferred the road, no doubt.

    #3- Don't know.

    #4- I would like to think so. The book from the his bodyguards had just come out before his upcoming tour, so I'm sure it would have motivated him, alas we'll never know.

    Just to add a bit to this, the Colonel was a degenerate gambler, literally losing millions of dollars at the Hilton, thus making lower contracts for his client. Because of his "illness" if you will, he increased his % with Elvis, to 50% and proceeded to rob him blind all through the seventies. The Colonel really turned out to be a piece of scrap. Perhaps this would explain part of the reason why EP hated Vegas, at least later on.
    1 Elvis' Vegas schedule changed in '75 due to Dr. Nick's urging that Elvis cut down to one show a day on weekdays instead of the 2 from previous engagements. He still did 2 shows on Saturday though.
    In '75 Elvis had three engagements in Vegas, the first starting March 18th, and ending April 1st. - The second August 18th-20th (rest of the shows cancelled due to illness) And the third engagement December 2nd - December 15th.

    As far as not being there again until December of 1976, there was numerous reasons... First and foremost Parker had scheduled Elvis on a total of 128 tour shows that year, as well as an April-May engagement in Lake Tahoe -- making it next to impossible to book a "Vegas" season in between. Also, Elvis dislike for Vegas was becoming quite apparent in '76. Also, for the December '76 Vegas run Elvis and the Colonel had to put up their own money to rent out the showroom -- which had never happened before.. Some claim it was due to Elvis' onstage monologues, and sometimes insulting critiques of the Hilton management.. That sort of answers your #2 question. It has been rumored though that Elvis was to open the new Hilton Pavilion in October of 1977, which was specifically built for him --- but that kind of contradicts the other facts. Did Elvis sign a new STRICTER contract with Hilton for such a deal??? We may never know.

    #3 - As for your questions about the soundboards from the '73-76 seasons. They exist I'm quite sure. Either In BMG's hands, or private collectors. We'll just have to wait and see If the FTD label a/o "Import" labels will bring these out in the future. As for the latter, I doubt highly as BMG has tight control over the importers now.

    #4 - This is a hard question. It's kind of like a double bladed sword. If he would have lived, it would have been Elvis' decisions, and actions that would make it go either way. On one hand, he could have delved into his dreams of becoming a serious actor, slowed down on his RX habit and/or continued to find challenges to keep his interest. Or on the other hand, he could have headed down the same road he was on and lived for a few more years in "decline". I have no doubt though that since his death, Elvis' "Image" has grown to that of mystical status.... For sure the #1 artist, or as BMG titled him as "Artist of the Century".
    I don't know anything about music.

  12. #12
    From Elvis Presley Blvd Lonniebealestreet's Avatar
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    I believe it was Henri Lewin (then-Hilton Executive Vice President) who was quoted in Jerry Hopkins' The Final Years about the plans for Elvis to open their new auditorium, the Pavilion. The way he put it is that they didn't have Elvis play at all in '77 to whet the audience's appetite for his auditorium-opening engagement. And after Elvis died, they knew they had to come up with another mega-star--though no one could fill Elvis' shoes, of course. So it was a Muhammad Ali fight.
    ...you won't forget me when I go.

  13. #13
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    Cool

    When Elvis left Vegas in 76' he was finished his contract and vowed to never return. I don't know if he would never have returned, but I doubt he would have played Vegas for a while, at least 5-10 years.

    I imagine Vegas was very boring for him. Elvis needed to be creative, and by 71 he was bored with Vegas. Imagine singing the same songs twice a night week in week out. Very boring indeed. Pity some of us wernt in the Audience opening night 74 in Vegas! We would have created such a noise that he would have come out the next night with another whole new set list of lesser known favourites!
    The Sun Never Sets On A Legend...

  14. #14
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    I think the Vegas scene was at one time a playground for Elvis and the guys. Then the Col. turned it into work by locking him into the 5 years. The Col. I think was always waiting for the shine to fall off Elvis, which is why with the movies and Vegas he was always going for long deals with more fringes benefits for himself and less money for Elvis. Europe and the world could have brought Elvis what he needed-to fight for his crown with a new advisary. To prove who he was.
    Here it became to easy, I think we are partly to blame for that.

  15. #15
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    Regarding Vegas, I also think that Elvis did 2 shows a night 7 days a week didn't help, surely 1 show a night 5 nights a week with a couple of days rest would be enough for anybody ? You wouldn't treat a dog how Parker treat Elvis sometimes
    "When You Let Your Head get Too Big, It'll Break your Neck" Elvis Presley.

  16. #16
    Mad Tigers
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    Thumbs up YES You Are Right!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0349054
    When Elvis left Vegas in 76' he was finished his contract and vowed to never return. I don't know if he would never have returned, but I doubt he would have played Vegas for a while, at least 5-10 years.

    I imagine Vegas was very boring for him. Elvis needed to be creative, and by 71 he was bored with Vegas. Imagine singing the same songs twice a night week in week out. Very boring indeed. Pity some of us wernt in the Audience opening night 74 in Vegas! We would have created such a noise that he would have come out the next night with another whole new set list of lesser known favourites!
    We can only dream of what might have been if that concert audience had accepted that direction! Personally I love that concert, I listen to it more than any other except the EOT: The Rehearshals.

    Thanks so much for everyone posting their thoughts, I appreciate your opinions very much, keep'em coming.
    I don't know anything about music.

  17. #17
    TCB Mafia toffe's Avatar
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    After the Comeback, he should have taken a rest, and then go on a world tour, insted of playing on Hilton every day, and instead of touring the states south and west every day
    Taking Care of Business
    Til we meet you again, may God bless you, Adios.

  18. #18
    Backstage Pass pacer 1966's Avatar
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    I voted for the world tour.....This to me is the one thing that could have got Elvis out of the rut he started to get into around 1971....it was just like the movies all over again..except it wasnt the endless soundstages and silly sets,but concerts halls and Vegas...a world tour would have given Elvis a huge lift and stopped the boredom setting in as quickly as it did, but we all know now why the Colonel wouldnt allow this to happen

  19. #19
    Mad Tigers minty's Avatar
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    When Elvis cancelled the Aug 75 Shows he returned in Dec to fulfil his contract.Vegas in Dec has always been quiet and slow for business but when Elvis played there they sold out all the shows and business was booming,so in 76 i think it was a joint decision by Elvis/Colonel and the Hilton management to play in Dec again.Because of continuing ill health the deal of one show during the week also stayed.It is true it was planned for Elvis to open the new wing in Dec 77 so Elvis may have preferred to play Vegas in Dec doing one show a night and with the festive feeling it may have up lifted him.As for soundboards nearly every Aug/Sep 74 show is available on soundboard but after that very little is available from Vegas,no more March 75 shows left,no Aug 75 shows,a couple of Dec 75 shows but mostly incomplete and no Dec 76 shows,it seems it was preferred to record tour shows

  20. #20
    International Level thehillbillycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eap1977 View Post
    #1 Why after summer 1974 season at Las Vegas did things change (end of the 5 year napkin contract)? Why did Elvis start off in April of 75' (for the new building?) in stead of January? Things were never the same in Vegas, less shows, only appeared once in 76' and none in 77'.

    #2 If he had lived was Vegas no longer a option for him? Was he just sick of Vegas or did he simply need to be challenged?

    #3 Why is it so hard to get sound boards from the 73',75',76 seasons?

    #4 Finally (in your opinion) if Elvis had lived, would he still be as great in life as the image has grown to in death?

    Thanks so much!

    Greg
    1. The change in the Vegas show was for two reasons. He was sick and he was doing two shows a night. So it was change to one show a night. He was also sick of Vegas itself. He thought it wasn't a challenge anymore. In his eyes it looked like he was performing in front of the same crowd night after night.

    2. It was a little of both. He need more of a challenge and Vegas didn't have it anymore. This is why he was sick of Vegas itself. It didn't have a challenge.

    3. Soundboards weren't always recorded. If there is some from 1975, 1976 and 1977 then either RCA, EPE or private hands has them.

    4. We will never know. When he died, his image brought life of its own. So looking it that way he is alive and well but he physical body is no longer with us.


    As for a new challenge, what did he needed? He needed a world tour. Even if you do one each and every year it is always a chalenge. The audience will always be different. You don't know if he would be liked or not. You don't know if the show would be successful or not. That is a true challenge.

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