Vernon

[rod]

hi al

we all know elvis stayed in the usa for most of his life apart for the army years.
but did vernon ever travel outside of the usa while elvis was alive and if so where did he go to.

[Lonniebealestreet]

I don't think so, Rod.

I am not speaking as an authority, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. But if Vernon ever left the country, it hasn't been mentioned in any book I've ever read, so if he did then it is a very little known fact.

Regardless of what I've read or not read, that's very hard for me to imagine. It just doesn't seem like traveling abroad would have appealed to somebody like Vernon (unless it would have been to accompany Elvis), and I don't mean any disrespect by that.

[Memphis]

Elvis didn't really go on holidays did he? Besides from Hawaii, the only time he went outside the continental U.S.A. was a trip to the Bahamas, and during the Army stint in Germany (joined by Vernon and his Grandmother). Took a trip to France while he was in the Army, and touched down in Scotland on the way back to the States from Germany. Were there any other countries he went to? Maybe this should be a different topic. Sorry for interjecting this Rod.

[Captain Elwood David]

Vernon went to Germany with EP during his son's Army stint. Despite it being shortly after the passing of Gladys .......... Vernon had a ball in Germany, meeting & later marrying Dee Stanley.

Lots of interesting stories about Vernon in Germany (and during EP's 70's tours in the USA) - lots.

BTW, ... another random thought ---> EP got many of his odd mannerisms from his Father - including the swagger.

Dee later obtained a divorce outside the USA in November of '77, from Vernon. Don't think that Vernon accompanied.

So, in answer to your question, .......... I don't believe that Vernon ever left the USA other than during EP's Army years.

Vernon was a simple man who enjoyed his life immensely, thanks to his wonderful son, EP.

EP took very good care of his Daddy for the rest of his life ---> following his mother's words, to "always be together."

Just another aspect to respect & admire about EP - The Man.


- Capt. "EL."

PS - Ironically, EP was very worried about his father's failing health (heart) in his last years (1975-77). EP went first. It literally tore Vernon apart - he was a broken man the last two years of his life (he managed to hang on for another two years without his son, ... passing away in 1979).

[carolynlm]

I have always had a bit of a soft spot for Vernon. He was, as it would seem, a bit of a 3rd wheel where Gladys and Elvis was concerned. He just seemed to be in the background most of the time. I don't think he was a very confident man. I don't know. The thing that has always intrigued me though, was him marrying that Dee person. He was a very good looking man, but he seemed to be walking in Elvis' shadow most of the time. I wonder just what went on privately between Elvis and his father about Vernons second marriage. I have no doubt that Dee was out for all she could get, and Vernon was besotted. I wonder if Elvis ever tried to 'buy her off'.....

[rod]

i find it hard to like vernon i think he helped sell his son out to col parker . and all he seemed to worry about was money.
i don't know if any of you have been to the gravesites in gracelands but if you look at gladys headstone there is very little written on it but when you look at vernons it reads like war and peace.
the man did nothing in his life except sponge of his son... how sad.

[Captain Elwood David]

Originally posted by rod@May 30 2004, 11:23 AM
i find it hard to like vernon i think he helped sell his son out to col parker . and all he seemed to worry about was money.
i don't know if any of you have been to the gravesites in gracelands but if you look at gladys headstone there is very little written on it but when you look at vernons it reads like war and peace.
the man did nothing in his life except sponge of his son... how sad.

A bit harsh.

Seeing as to the business matters concerning EVERYTHING as related to the estate was a full-time job for Vernon. I will also add that, by all accounts, Vernon was diligent about his work at the "office" & those that worked for him - everyday, for his entire life after EP's rise to fame.

I think many that spew bile towards Vernon were simply resentful for a number of reasons.

Vernon's role in money matters, was certain to never win him many "admirers", but .......... IMO, was a necessary role.

EP himself even said that with his own Daddy overseeing the finances ---> he knew that every penny would be accounted for.

Besides, all that really matters is how Elvis felt about his Father. EP didn't have a problem with it; in fact, it made him happy to be able to do so much for so long for his Dad.

That about sums it for me. Like I said, yet another admirable trait about EP - The Man.


- Capt. "EL."

PS - Try to place yourself in the shoes of others & see things thru their eyes:

To EP, & especially Vernon, ........... The Col. was the one who single-handedly lifted them out of poverty for the remainder of their lives, every step of the way, thru 3 decades. In Vernon's eyes, The Col. also came to the rescue in his hour of need, ....... right after Elvis' passing.

EP & Vernon were both quite simple in their outlooks. As long as they had money to do the things that they wanted, neither really critically examined The Col. & his actions.

BTW, ........ Vernon (with help) penned the words on EP's gravestone. Very poignant. The words on Vernon's gravestone, however, were written by others - Vernon had no part in it's content whatsoever. Vernon is also reason that EP & his Mother were brought back to Graceland in the first place.

[jbgude]

I agree with most of what the Captain said....especially the description simple men What I find it more amazing is that their bankers, what was it , Commerce Bank of Memphis or whatever never got Vernon to invest in shares or other assests.

Or if they did, the simple man just wanted to "see" his money and was not willing to risk the Stock markets (he was a survivor of thegreat depression after all).

I would guess both Vernon and Elvis were shangied by the Col who saw a "mark"...and later got to the point where he even dictated their conduct of their private lives and I presume the strong arm tactics worked - remember Elvis' worries about important people trying to certify him as crazy ? Guess who Elvis would have thought saved him from that ignominy.But then that is really no bussiness of ours.

Just the music.

jb

[Joe Car]

The biggest problem Vernon had was trying to some how control Elvis' spending habits which were extreme even though Elvis made a ton of money. I love the fact that EP and Vernon were together all the time, (I'm sure Gladys would have been proud), what harm was that doing to anybody? Elvis loved his "daddy" and from all accounts wanted Vernon with him. Lest we forget who was sitting next to EP for that great New York press conference?

[Captain Elwood David]

Originally posted by jbgude@May 30 2004, 12:56 PM
Just the music.

jb

Yes, ........ but it will always also be so much more.


- Capt. "EL."

[carolynlm]

Vernon and Gladys had been broke and although I think they gave everything they possibly could to the young Elvis, he knew what it was like not to have any money. After the Depression years there weren't too many people who really trusted the banks, so for Vernon not to invest Elvis' money was understandable. As far as trusting tom parker, well, who can say why, but don't forget that Gladys didn't like him. I would imagine had she lived, she may have talked Elvis into letting parker go and getting a new manager. I will give parker some due, he did what he was paid to do, but I think he took a great deal of advantage over the fact that Vernon trusted him to handle Elvis. And Elvis trusted his father to do the right thing.

[Captain Elwood David]

Originally posted by carolynlm@May 31 2004, 12:45 AM
Vernon and Gladys had been broke and although I think they gave everything they possibly could to the young Elvis, he knew what it was like not to have any money. After the Depression years there weren't too many people who really trusted the banks, so for Vernon not to invest Elvis' money was understandable.

Colonel Parker ..... don't forget that Gladys didn't like him. I would imagine had she lived, she may have talked Elvis into letting parker

Excellent & accurate points.

Precisely what I meant about seeing things thru the perspective of the eyes of others.

Regarding Gladys, .......... I think that EP's entire life would have turned out differently had she lived. In more ways that one, her death was a turning point. The Col. himself even admitted that he was never really comfortable around EP's Mother. She was able to see what EP & Vernon never wanted to or were able to see -------> a different side to The Col..

Fascinating.


- Capt. "EL."

[carolynlm]

This subject is fascinating. The imagination can run riot over the thought that had Gladys lived, what would be different. Would Elvis have married someone from his own background? We know that Gladys wasn't happy living at Graceland, would Elvis have bought her another house? The questions are endless, but we will never have the answers. Gladys sounds like the type of lady that I would have liked to have known. Not pushy, but strong enough to know what is best for her family.

[rod]

hey capt.

some good points and your right maybee i was a bit harsh .but im just reading the alana nash book the colonel and it seems that the colonel cut elvis of at every pass and i dont see no surport from vernon.

it makes a very frustrating read you just want grab elvis a shake him by the neack and say wake up can't you see this man is screwing you.

[Captain Elwood David]

Originally posted by rod@May 31 2004, 11:54 AM
...... the alana nash book the colonel and it seems that the colonel cut elvis of at every pass and i dont see no surport from vernon.

it makes a very frustrating read .....

Much agreed on The Col. book.

It puts things into a much clearer focus and I came away from it disliking The Col. even more than before I read it.

EP needed The Col. in the 50's, but outgrew him later on. Let us also not forget that EP wanted a manager who would stay out of his personal life & just do the business end of it all later on in his career. Both got what they wanted out of it all.

As for Vernon, the evidence strongly suggests that he completely trusted The Col.. Just check out Vernon's words about The Col. at the end of EIC and look up the letter that Vernon wrote to The Col. thanking him for staying on after EP died. Complete, utter naivete about The Col.. EP might have been catching on, but I think that Vernon thought that The Col. was a God-Send. Having been poor once before, Vernon lived in perpetual fear of the same happening again. In that sense, The Col. was salvation in the eyes of Vernon. In fact, I bet The Col. had Vernon believing that he could walk on water.

Love him and / or hate him - The Col. was a genuis at what he did. As per his "Snowman's League" ........ the BIGGEST, GREATEST Snower there ever was.


- Capt. "EL."

[Lonniebealestreet]

Rod-

I guess when I first read your question I thought you meant, besides when Elvis was in the army, did Vernon ever leave the country? That's why I didn't mention that. Or was I right the first time? Oh well, no matter.


Very interesting topic, on all fronts.

I think that if Gladys had lived is probably the biggest 'what if' of them all. Some say the loss of Elvis's twin may have had as much or more significance, but that is hard to argue because it happened before Elvis was born and therefore we have no pre-traumatic-event-Elvis for comparison. His divorce was cartainly another biggie, but with the loss of Elvis's mother came the most significant changes in him.

Page 9 (the first page of the first chapter following the prologue) of Careless Love mentions Gladys's death. "...with his mother gone, he was truly alone in the world." So apparently he too believes the unmaking of Elvis Presley began with the loss of his mother.

The problem with the Parker-Presley arrangement was that it was not as simple as Elvis saying, "I'll make the records and you handle the business end of things." Colonel's 'business' came to get in the way of the music.

With money as the motive, he did not want Elvis to record songs they couldn't get a piece of the publishing on. But when that meant Elvis was forced to record crap songs to fulfill his RCA contract obligations, the result was often a financially unsuccessful album.

That is an area among several in which Colonel's involvement was to the detriment of Elvis. Quality was often sacrificed with the almighty dollar in mind, when the end result (if not the immediate one, then the long-term one) was seemingly not considered.

A wiser man would have realized that Elvis was the musical genius and he should be allowed to follow his instincts, and everything else would fall into place. Instead the Colonel got in the way of the music, when he himself did not have an ear for it. (His asking Elvis to record Are You Lonesome Tonight was to his wife's credit.)

He was the ultimate promoter and dealmaker, and made a poor boy into a millionaire, but as others have said, after seeming to make all the right moves in the fifties, Colonel came to be not such a great thing for Elvis.

He didn't involve himself in his personal life? Aside from most likely being the biggest source of pressure on Elvis to marry Priscilla, committing Elvis to soul-breaking, mind-numbing Vegas engagements and road tours certainly had something to do with his personal life.

Granted, Elvis spent money like he couldn't get rid of it fast enough, but a breakneck concert schedule was not the solution, since the harder Elvis worked, the harder he played. The more commitments and stressors, the more sources of pleasure and relief he needed. Plus, spending money like that was a way to rebel against Priscilla, Vernon, and the Colonel. If Elvis had been more artistically satisfied, he would not have needed all the sources of escapism.

Elvis felt like his life was not his own, and the Colonel was a big reason for that. Part of it was certainly the enormity of his own celebrity (which he seemed to alternate between laughing at, being stupefied by, and buying into), but mostly IMO the Colonel's inestimable hold over him and all the resulting obligations and restrictions were responsible for this.

Of course, Elvis was ultimately responsible for his own happiness, which might have been easier to come by if he had dropped the Colonel when the quality of the music and the movies went south, or at least come to a new understanding with him by which Elvis was given more artistic control (which would never have happened). But for reasons we cannot understand--it's that whole 'walk a mile' thing--he was never able to sever that cord for good.

The reason for Vernon's allegiance to Tom Parker is probably more clear-cut (see the Captain's words), but I think a lot of that same kind of thinking is what made Elvis keep him around...although there is probably more to the story.

[Captain Elwood David]

Originally posted by lonniebealestreet+Jun 1 2004, 02:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lonniebealestreet &#064; Jun 1 2004, 02:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Page 9 (the first page of the first chapter following the prologue) of Careless Love mentions Gladys&#39;s death.&nbsp; "...with his mother gone, he was truly alone in the world."&nbsp; So apparently he too believes the unmaking of Elvis Presley began with the loss of his mother.[/b]

I agree with this on many levels. Gladys&#39; departure opened up the way for The Col., ......... and .......... many of the other things to follow in EP&#39;s laters years.

Originally posted by lonniebealestreet@Jun 1 2004, 02:35 AM
The problem with the Parker-Presley arrangement was that it was not as simple as Elvis saying, "I&#39;ll make the records and you handle the business end of things."&nbsp; Colonel&#39;s &#39;business&#39; came to get in the way of the music.

That is an area among several in which Colonel&#39;s involvement was to the detriment of Elvis.&nbsp; Quality was often sacrificed with the almighty dollar in mind, when the end result (if not the immediate one, then the long-term one) was seemingly not considered.

Thru The Col.&#39;s eyes, ....... he saw their "arrangement" as a 50-50 partnership. In other words, The Col. always considered himself as part of the package deal - on equal footing with Elvis.

Originally posted by lonniebealestreet@Jun 1 2004, 02:35 AM
He didn&#39;t involve himself in his personal life?&nbsp; Aside from most likely being the biggest source of pressure on Elvis to marry Priscilla, committing Elvis to soul-breaking, mind-numbing Vegas engagements and road tours certainly had something to do with his personal life.

I view it as such:

- The Col. was saving EP from himself by forcing him to honor his promises to marry Priscilla. This was one instance where Elvis simply had to keep his promises, or face the consequences.

- The &#39;68 Special success was used as the springboard to jump back into a new / lucrative phase of EP&#39;s career - replacing the long dead movie years. Unfortunately, just like the movie years, EP kept doing it until he was sick of it. Just like the movie years, it was a good thing in the beginning.

- The road tours were what EP wanted. Once again, overdoing something to point that one doesn&#39;t want to do it any longer.

<!--QuoteBegin-lonniebealestreet@Jun 1 2004, 02:35 AM
I think a lot of that same kind of thinking is what made Elvis keep him around...although there is probably more to the story.[/quote]

The Col.&#39;s hold over Elvis was, IMO, 100% a psychological one.

EP himself stated: "They will come from miles around to see a FREAK." "Good Ol&#39; Col., he&#39;s still dishing it out after all these years ..... and the people are still buying it."

(Paraphrased).

It is quite ironic that EP&#39;s self confidence could swing from such extreme highs & lows. The Col. played on that well ........ and did all he could to reinforce / manipulate it to his advantage.


- Capt. "EL."