More Were Made
No They Were The Same Ones!
Just wanted to know what peoples general thoughts were about duplicate Jumpsuits? Now I know there were several Jumpsuits which had two versions e.g The White Nail Jumpsuit, Black Spanish Flowers and the other that springs to mind is the Rainfall Jumpsuits.
Do you think that multiple suits were made as a matter of course or that if a Jumpsuit became popular with Elvis another was commissioned?
The reason I bring this up I have read on another forum that the Mexican Sundial only had one copy made! the reason for there being originally 3 buttons going down to two was the fact that they were washed in between each show and the wear and tear took its toll.
I am uncertain as to the validity of this argument for two reasons, the Mexican Sundial first showed up in 1974 along with the King Of Spades, and the fact that Elvis' weight fluctuated somewhat in the intervening years would point to the fact that possibly two had been made. There is the argument that Elvis could have been possibly of a similar size but having seen pictures from 1974, I find that quite hard to believe that would be the case in June of 1977. It is however possible that the suit had been altered but somehow I don't think so, Elvis had given up on being measured at this point and it would have made more sense to have a new one commissioned.
Also the frequency the Mexican Sundial was being used in 1977 would mean there would have been a marked deterioration in the appearance of the suit with or without repairs!
I could be wrong of course
Matt
I personally don't buy the stories that there are two Sundials.
Just one.
The argument, mainly stemming from button # differences, ............... is an extremely flimsy one - IMO.
These kinds of things, generally speaking, ............ stem from over-active imaginations of hardcore fans / collectors / etc..
- Capt. "EL."
Interesting.
This begs the question of what washing methods were employed for these suits. Were they just cleaned with alcohol or something?
...you won't forget me when I go.
Dear fellows, I would like to react on this "mystery" of the "Mexican Sundial". Yes, there was only one. If you look closely at the pictures taken in October 1974 the suit is (or looks) larger than the other suits. The same goes for the "Ace of Spades". Besides the belly area of the suit is able to strech so that leaves extra "room". Matt enclosed two pictures one of them being 1977 and he is not that heavy there.
For the buttons. I have a picture that shows the loss of one button. If Elvis indeed had two versions of that suit the loss of buttons would not have occured.
There are other suits however of which I believe a second version was made. The "Indian Feather" and the "Blue Rainbow". Both suits were fitting tight the first time they were used but were much larger when they came back at the end of 1976. Although Elvis managed to lose some weight I also believe we were fooled a little by a larger size of clothing.
Excellent input, Leroy.
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It is my understanding that there are indeed "multiple originals" (second somewhat identical versions) of some stage-suits. They are the exception, however, & not the general case / rule.
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It is also my understanding that the stage-suits were dry-cleaned between venues.
- Capt. "EL."
That's right Captain. I just have to investigate which suits got doubled. I'm convinced about the "Blue Rainbow" and the "Indian Feather". Other possibilities are the "Red Bird" and of course the "Aloha Bald Headed Eagle". I'm pretty sure there's a difference between the 1973 version and the 1974 version. The differences might be found in the location of the stars.
Over the years many people (including myself) were fooled by the fact that during the Aloha Special Elvis wore a blue lined cape while the leg inserts were red lined. So rumours came that there must have been a red lined cape too and and a suit with blue leg inserts. But it just had to do with the "red, white and blue theme" of America. (And for Holland because of the strong historical bond between our countries. I always call Holland the 51st state of America)
Weren't the jumpsuits brought to a local dry steamer while being on tour? Also the reason that during an afternoon show he would wear suit "x", and during the evening show suit "y".
I believe that I've read that only one time it went wrong with having the jumpsuits cleaned local, and that the suit was returned quite damaged.
"A year from now, you'll wish you had started today"
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Yes, they were dry cleaned at a local company. And with so many decorations it's almost impossible not to damage something after some time.
The suits that were used the most all miss some stones. The "White Matador" misses a triangler stone on the left front and a round nail on the arm. The "Aloha" missing some stones. The "Nail Studded Suit" missing a stone.
I guess the most damaged suits ought to be both "Prehistoric Birds" and the "Mexican Sundial".
It's pretty common for truly genuine EP owned items to have some sort of damage / heavy wear secondary to ordinary usage. (Genuine EP stage used guitars, for example, often have "scars" on the reverse body due to EP's large stage belt buckles ............... and there are other numerous examples).
Gotta be very wary of "mint" or too "new" items ............ whether they be clothing items, jewelry, belts (etc.), or jumpsuits.
I'm sure that some missing pieces from jumpsuits were also intentionally procured by the cleaners themselves ( ........... oops, .......... this one accidently fell off .........) ................
- Capt. "EL."
Thanks for the input guys, it helps to get perspective from various sources to see what the general consensus is.
The Blue Rainbow and the Indian Feather had a duplicate made and were worn less than the Mexican Sundial, this just seems a little odd
But anyway there we have it.
Matt
I'm not saying I don't buy there only being one Sundial suit, but it's funny how in most cases in which that issue is addressed, it is indicated that there are two.
I had read that the suits were rushed to the local cleaners after the shows, but after learning that there was only one Sundial suit, that scenario seemed less likely...thus my suggestion of hand-cleaning with alcohol or the like.
I wonder if the confusion initially stemmed from the button issue--great point of information, Leroy, about the photo in which one sleeve has 2 and the other, 3--or what because that aside, I don't see why an assumption like that would be made.
Those who maintain there are two suits ought to prove their point by tracking down Sundial #2!
You'll never find it though because I had that fireproof closet concealed and passcode-protected years ago!
...you won't forget me when I go.
Matt, about the "Blue Rainbow" and the "Indian Feather" that's just obvious to see. You really can see the differences between the 1974 and 1975 version and the ones he used late 1976. Check the pictures of (for example) the 1975 Huntsville concerts. The "Indian Feather" fits very tight and in Memphis he even split the seat of his pants. In February 1977 he ballooned but still had lots of room (in the same suit?)
At the end of 1976 he was still (or again) interested in changes. That's why re-creating favourite jumpsuits is quite a possible option. By late spring 1977 he wasn't interested anymore nore were his surroundings and he fell back in the "summer of 1976 routine" of wearing the same clothes on and on.
But back to the "Mexican Sundial": I agree that those who believe in a second version of this suit should be able to proof something. I will post my "lost button" picture here. Just look at his left arm and see the tread where once a button was.
By the way; if there was a second version, why not used that one instead of the damaged one????
I'm very anxious to see if anybody has some proof. It's all in tiny details where you have to look.
And here three different pictures of the "Indian Feather". The first one from June 10, 1975. The suit is tight here.
The second one is from Anaheim December 1976. See how much space Elvis has left right under his armpit. You can't see his back here but there's some space too.
The third picture is from February 1977. Elvis gained some weight but still has enough space. Now I do agree that a suit can be let out but not that much.
Another picture from 1977 doesn't look very overweight here?
Quite why this Jumpsuit wasn't worn more often is a mystery?
Does anyone have photo's of this jumpsuit from Graceland??
You're absolutely right. He doesn't look overweight in that picture. But that's not difficult to explain. Just stand up, hold both your arms in the air and imagine that you try to make contact with someone who is a half a mile away in the middle of a crowd. Your body will react to that. More volume will go from your belly to your upperbody. It's a way of stretching.
I have two pictures of the "Indian Feather" on display but both of a doubtful quality and one from up close from a strange angle. But I will post them anyway.
I was in Graceland last year...and what i can remember...i saw the tiger suit, mexican sundail, aztec, black phoenix, flame, pyramide, ...and to me,there were all the same size, very rare, but there was no suit to me that looked larger or smaller than the others...
I also think that the suits were made in a sort of stretch, and that it's possible that E just fit in during 76 and 77, and so i can believe that there was just one mexican sundail...
Old Times they are not forgotten
Johan
The fact that all suits in Graceland look the same size is because they were all taken in. The Elvis Presley Enterprises is an organisation who is very much in denial about the last years of Elvis. They want to carry out the perfect image of Elvis and are willing to re-create the myth to reach that goal.
I always lived under the impression that the jumpsuits from 1974 and 1975 were duplicated in a larger size for the last three tours of 1976. I?m talking about the ?Ace of Spades?, ?Blue Rainbow?, ?Inca Gold Leaf? and the ?Indian Feather?. But this was not the case.
Since the beginning of 1972 Elvis weight and measurements went up and down. The first years not as dramatic as later on but the 1971 suits ?White Matador? and ?Spectrum Suit? had to be let out before Elvis could use them for the April 1972 tour.
The only suit that was duplicated was the 1973 ?Aloha Bald Headed Eagle?. The version he used between April 1973 and March 1974 was not the same as the one he used in Aloha. It was a larger version. It was one of the first suits where the manufacturers anticipated with Elvis ever changing weight. From then on every suit could be let out or taken in. That why he managed to use a few earlier suits in later years.
I don't think Elvis used two Indian Feather/Blue Rainbow suits in different sizes. I guess they where just re-fitted to the now somewhat expanded weight of Elvis and a wider belt was made. But I have read that Elvis had two Sundial suits that he altered from concert to concert. While Elvis wore one suit the other one was cleaned and brought to his next tour stop.
That is what I already explained in my last post. It was my believe until I spoke with the ones involved in the jumpsuit world.Originally Posted by orwell1976
The story about the second "Mexican Sundial" is just a rumour. There was only one version that was used over and over again. It was so worn off that somewhere around April/May 1977 some cuff buttons came off and had to be re-organized. That's why after May you see only a total of eight instead of the usual twelve cuff buttons.
If there was time enough the suit was brought to the local dry cleaners; if not...... Elvis just used it again. It sounds like dirty talk and normally it would be. But the people around Elvis discovered a pill that would take care of the problem. If Elvis would use it he would still sweat but without the usual odor. The use of Brut would take care of the rest.
Having given it some thought and in light of the evidence given I tend to agree that there was only one Mexican Sundial, if you watch the CBS Special closely you can see that the Jumpsuit looks the worse for ware, I'm pretty sure that all the Jumpsuits that are displayed at Graceland have been given the once over, repaired before being displayed! another thought would be that possibly some of the ones on display could be replicas
Leroy, why do you suppose that elvis chose the suits that he did to wear in 1976-77, is it that the weight he was back in 1974 most closely resembles the weight he was in 1976-77 or the fact that these suits were better able to be let out? there were certainly other Jumpsuits that could have been worn for example the Red & White Eagle and if the weight did closely match that of 1974 the Mad Tiger and Chinese Dragon could have been considered?
JJ
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