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Thread: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

  1. #21
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Elvis Presley by all accounts was a non confrontational person especially in regards to Colonel Parker.

    Just because Parker would have lipstick and other items made up to sell doesn't mean Elvis was okay with it.

    Selling pictures, T-shirts and Teddy Bears etc. was kinda tacky while Elvis was alive but Parker wasn't as bad about it as EPE has been.

    Believe it or not.

  2. #22
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    Elvis Presley by all accounts was a non confrontational person especially in regards to Colonel Parker.

    Just because Parker would have lipstick and other items made up to sell doesn't mean Elvis was okay with it.

    Selling pictures, T-shirts and Teddy Bears etc. was kinda tacky while Elvis was alive but Parker wasn't as bad about it as EPE has been.

    Believe it or not.
    Parker had Elvis alive and when ever Parker needed a little income he could always come up with some new project to get Elvis involved in be it music, movies, tv, ....
    EPE has never had that option, they can not sign a deal for 5 years of films by Elvis, or for live appearances in Vegas in which Parkers side deals help line his pockets....they can not go to RCA and set up a recording session for a new album or single which will help line their pockets, they can not sell the future artist royaltees for 90% of all recorded material by Elvis and walk away with as much money (if not more as some report) as Elvis himself did.
    EPE came into existence partially because of the type manager Parker was-I can not stress this enough....the probate judge looked at years of contracts between Elvis, the Col and RCA, movie deals, and Vegas deals and he saw the Col playing both sides of the deck in all areas...he saw conflict of interest in every case and he ordered the estate to sue Parker to get his fat fingers out of the estates pie.
    Parker at first tried to claim they could not sue him, because he was not a US citizen-now come on Brian isn't that the height of hypocrisy and almost funny....he hides for years that he is not an American-but claims in court he is not an American to keep his money train rolling.
    EPE does not have a live Elvis to fall upon, they do not have huge film income to rely upon, they do not have huge artist royaltees for 90% of the catalogue (they do have publishing income but it pales to the amount they should have got over the last decades in artist royaltees) they just had the likeness of Elvis. Thats what was left and thats what they marketed ......in ways that average fans could afford...things people buy.
    IF people did not buy these things-they would not be sold, so there are fans who want these things (I am not one-I collect music,films, books)
    No one forces anyone to buy anything-its a personal decision.
    I do not like everything EPE sells, very little actually-BUT the difference between my opinion about this and you is I understand why they had to proceed like this.
    I really think that in the last 15 years they have worked much harder at trying to do things that showcase Elvis's talent more and more....but buying and planning say the 68 Special in whole "did not come cheap", nor the Aloha Special...and in order to have the money to do things such as this-they have to sell the trinkets and tickets to Graceland.
    Thats just the way it is, Elvis did avoid confrontation-but if he had stood up more and kept his finances in better shape...things may have been much different after his death...
    Is EPE at fault for the circumstances that existed after his death?, is Lisa? No
    Work in Progress!

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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    My point is that you can promote Elvis' likeness in a more tasteful way.

    Elvis has become like a cartoon character thanks to their marketing.

    Elvis' record label could have also done a better job particularly before Ernst Jorgensen came aboard.

    The Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, The Beatles, Frank Sinatra estates does a better job than what EPE has done with Elvis in terms of being marketed and promoted.

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    Cadillac King Trelane P's Avatar
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Maybe it's the frequency of the elvis.com posts that bother people.

    If they posted once a week with links within the post to the news items of that week maybe it would be less intrusive.

    Discuss
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trelane P View Post
    Maybe it's the frequency of the elvis.com posts that bother people.

    If they posted once a week with links within the post to the news items of that week maybe it would be less intrusive.

    Discuss
    Finally somone gets it!

    I rarely, if at all read or comment on their posts, because to me it is just overkill. The likelihood being that before I've even finished this comment, they'll be another thread by EPE.

    I have absolutely no problem with their promotions, but your suggestion is a good one - Tie it all up in one thread for the week and those who are interested can fill their boots.

  6. #26
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Did Elvis demand that while alive do nothing that does not promote my legacy-did he tell Parker-no Teddy Bears-No Pink Lipstick??? OF course the answer is no.
    As far as I can read and hear Elvis never seemed to worry about "A Legacy" beyond "When they stop asking for my autograph then I'll worry"
    We are not talking about Elvis the artist who signed and approved the will-but Elvis the father...he left his estate to his daughter....not his fans.

    Without unrestricted use of the music-its hard to promote an artist and showcase his art if he is a recording artist. EPE tries today to work with Sony-as much as they will let them-what more can they do. I know some have suggested they buy his music from Sony-and that is just a joke of an idea-Sony knows the catalogue is priceless and they are reaping the benefits of the 1973 deal that released them from paying those artist royaltees for 90% of all music Elvis recorded.
    EPE did what it had to do in 1980-81 and Lisa is secure, as a father myself-I think Elvis would be happy for that fact.
    Given the option of seeing my children struggle after I'm gone-or seeing them flourish (thru any legal means) all fathers will choose flourish!
    I would venture a guess that Lisa knows her fathers place in music history and as an artist-is totally secure-selling plates, cups, lipstick etc....can not destroy hardwork and genius........ those items have nothing to do with the music-people buy those things because of the power Charisma and talent of Elvis -not the other way around. People buy these things in the millions-they want them....maybe the better campaign would be to try and convince fans who do buy them-to stop.
    As long as the music is still heard Elvis and his legacy are secure.....
    I am talking about Elvis the artist from the beginning of this discussion. It is you who insists involving legal matters and numbers. Like brian said, things can be done in a more tasteful way, which summarizes very well my posts. But when you say "he left his estate to his daughter, not his fans", implying that we shouldn't care, you are forgetting something important. It is worth so much because the fans care about it. If we didn't care about what Elvis left to his daughter it wouldn't be worth anything.

    What I don't care about it's how much money they make or how much they want to make. As a fan my main concern is Elvis the artist, not EPE or Lisa's bank account. That Elvis wanted Lisa to swim in money or not it's not my problem, just like they don't care about what I have to do without to be able to get anything Elvis related.

    And finally, don't you think that if people buy those items just because of Elvis charisma they would get other more appropiate things to his legacy as "The King of Rock'N'Roll"? He deserves much more in my opinion and he has that timeless quality that they could exploit in many ways. He had many cool different sides, from his 50's image to the early 70's. He can appeal as much to the country target as to the gospel one. I don't believe that the only public of Elvis is the one that buys the ducks and gets the wedding calendar. But maybe that's exactly the problem, maybe EPE don't believe in Elvis as much as the fans do.
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    You can not compare,,the marketing of Elvis by Parker,,,to EPE. The fact that they went to court and made sure the New laws said that only one body can have the rights to the name,,,and likeness speaks volumns. Good or bad,,it says the person or enity behind it wants to make sure they make the big money and no one else. And I swear,, I don't understand why people do not get that Priscilla was always about money, money money. She was always ticked off about what he spent money on,,unless it was for her. There is a side to her that had no respect for Elvis,,and was actually embarrassed by his "hillbilly" side, and foolishness. So why would anyone expect her baby--EPE to have any true respect for him. It is well known she had no problem laughing at him to friends behind his back and writing a book that showed it too. Of course unless you actually think she did not do it for profit----LOL Just like that interview she did in which she said how great her life was w/o Elvis and with Mike. Sure,,that really shows respect for the father of your child. LOL
    Of course Elvis let Parker market him,,,Elvis always left the business aspect to Parker,,,,but no one can say what Elvis would think of the mega, mega marketing of all things Elvis,,even the vulgar Wedding Calendar?? There just is no comparison.

  8. #28
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    I am talking about Elvis the artist from the beginning of this discussion. It is you who insists involving legal matters and numbers. Like brian said, things can be done in a more tasteful way, which summarizes very well my posts. But when you say "he left his estate to his daughter, not his fans", implying that we shouldn't care, you are forgetting something important. It is worth so much because the fans care about it. If we didn't care about what Elvis left to his daughter it wouldn't be worth anything.

    What I don't care about it's how much money they make or how much they want to make. As a fan my main concern is Elvis the artist, not EPE or Lisa's bank account. That Elvis wanted Lisa to swim in money or not it's not my problem, just like they don't care about what I have to do without to be able to get anything Elvis related.

    And finally, don't you think that if people buy those items just because of Elvis charisma they would get other more appropiate things to his legacy as "The King of Rock'N'Roll"? He deserves much more in my opinion and he has that timeless quality that they could exploit in many ways. He had many cool different sides, from his 50's image to the early 70's. He can appeal as much to the country target as to the gospel one. I don't believe that the only public of Elvis is the one that buys the ducks and gets the wedding calendar. But maybe that's exactly the problem, maybe EPE don't believe in Elvis as much as the fans do.

    I am sorry I see a huge difference-it is you who only sees one side.
    I understand Elvis the Artist-I understand ducks, lipstick and all the other merchandise have absolutely nothing to do with ELVIS THE ARTIST
    But you somehow seem to think that marketing some other items that are somehow associated with music, guitars, pianos, sheet music, etc...is the proper route for merchandising-I do not know about pianos, but I do know guitars, sheet music, picture books, special books on the life of Elvis, etc are sold by EPE.....you say I talk about LEGAL-sorry for bringing up hard facts of life-but LEGAL is what set this all in motion. Elvis not having a better more specific will and not having a better financial situation at death-set this all in motion......yet you want to ignore that, ignore the wishes of the man who should have more sayso upon his death ...than me, you, anyone else-he let his greatest concern be known IN THAT LEGAL WILL!
    That concern was for "The financial security forever-of his daughter"
    But you do not like how it was done-fine, I see your point-but it does not change the fact that Elvis never, never once said DO NOT SELL anything that does not promote what "some may feel" is appropriate to my career and legacy.....It was not a concern to Elvis, he did not care-all he wanted was financial security for his daughter.
    What merchandise is appropriate in your estimation that would have been able to be sold in enough quantity year in year out- to secure the type of financial security Elvis would have wanted for his daughter?(not what you or I would feel is adequate-but in the style Elvis lived and would have wanted his daughter to live)
    So are Elvis PhotoT-Shirts acceptable? If t-shirts are-then are photo curtains/bedspreads? If they are then are rugs-shower curtains, bath mats????
    How about baseball type pennants with his name and photo?
    They all have photos of Elvis on them-but I'm sure some would not like one-or all of these items.
    You can not sell just t-shirts, souvenier booklets, photo books, pamplets, and a few $500-$2000 dollar guitars. every year.
    I would love to own a replica of the Elvis 1970 stage guitar... I play guitar ....but I can not afford it-it is just way out of reach for "most fans"
    Fender came out with a bass that EPE endorsed-but how many fans can afford one?
    Priscilla was not the only executor-there were 3-and the probate judge did not give any power to her that the others did not have-he did not say to them in his order:
    Okay you have to come up with a plan that is also mindful of the Legacy of Elvis Presley the artist" that judge ordered for them to
    "Save the estate for Lisa with a plan that makes money and grows the estate"
    Simple-thats what the will demanded, its not what you seem to want it to say-but that is the fact.
    Tasteful is not the issue that the judge was concerned with-because it is not a concern expressed by Elvis in his will-why is that hard to understand?
    As a fan your concern is Elvis the artist-but Elvis did not mention fans in his will-the heart and soul of his will is about his daughters security.
    Still I ask how is that so hard to swallow for fans-his own final wishes, his own decisions, his own concerns for his daughter.
    You want all of that put "secondary" because you do not like how it has all played out...well then someone needs a "Back to the Future time machine" and they need to go back and convince Elvis to dump Parker after he got out of the Army...then explain to him how an artist of his stature should have had at least a 10-12% royaltee rate from 1960 on (instead of an average 6-7%) that he should have owned his own music after so many years instead of it becoming the sole property of RCA-and that selling 90% of his artist royaltees for pre 73 music was just stupid!
    If you can go back and change all those things the financial crisis of 1980 for the estate will be averted and none of this would be a concern for fans.
    The estate would have had artist royaltees in 1977-79 for about 100 million to 200 million in sales according to differing estimates and that amount would have more than been enough to keep Graceland from opening for tickets sales and all that has happened since that time.
    That is the reality of the situation-that is the truth.
    I do not feel EPE has done anything that was not started by the terrible financial situation that existed in 1977 and "what has been called the dumbest deal in music history" the selling of those artist royaltees in 1973.
    Not one person here has to buy a thing EPE markets, not one person has to go to Graceland, not one person has to buy SONY marketed records that are repackaged every single year-but someone does and that is there right...as long as they do-it will be sold.
    I have no ax to grind with EPE, Priscilla, or Lisa....I understand the situation Brian said Elvis did not like confrontation
    I understand that also-he was not a superhuman- he had faults and unfortunately he did not have financial savvy he trusted Parker to set up the best deals and he was taken and it is the prime reason for this situation.
    Last edited by KPM; 04-20-2013 at 02:46 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieT View Post
    You can not compare,,the marketing of Elvis by Parker,,,to EPE. The fact that they went to court and made sure the New laws said that only one body can have the rights to the name,,,and likeness speaks volumns. Good or bad,,it says the person or enity behind it wants to make sure they make the big money and no one else. And I swear,, I don't understand why people do not get that Priscilla was always about money, money money. She was always ticked off about what he spent money on,,unless it was for her. There is a side to her that had no respect for Elvis,,and was actually embarrassed by his "hillbilly" side, and foolishness. So why would anyone expect her baby--EPE to have any true respect for him. It is well known she had no problem laughing at him to friends behind his back and writing a book that showed it too. Of course unless you actually think she did not do it for profit----LOL Just like that interview she did in which she said how great her life was w/o Elvis and with Mike. Sure,,that really shows respect for the father of your child. LOL
    Of course Elvis let Parker market him,,,Elvis always left the business aspect to Parker,,,,but no one can say what Elvis would think of the mega, mega marketing of all things Elvis,,even the vulgar Wedding Calendar?? There just is no comparison.
    I am unsure as to how you perceive this to be a bad thing-did Elvis leave his image and likeness to someone else?
    Is it some company in London, or Paris that should have the right to make financial gain on his photo or name? If it is their right someone explain how?
    For years millions were made off of the likeness of Bela Lugosi and Boris Karloff and not a dime went to the estates of those individuals-until EPE challenged and aggresively pursued getting the laws changed and making sure "families of stars" had rights to the images of their famous relatives.
    How is that bad?
    Do you think these famous people would want others to make that money-which in essence does not benefit their loved ones?
    Am I missing something-how is families having exclusive rights to their famous fathers, mothers or spouses likeness-a bad thing?
    I see it basic fairness.
    Unless the wills of these people specifically deny those rights to the family-how is this not the fair,just and morally correct way for it to be?
    Work in Progress!

  10. #30
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    My point is that you can promote Elvis' likeness in a more tasteful way.

    Elvis has become like a cartoon character thanks to their marketing.

    Elvis' record label could have also done a better job particularly before Ernst Jorgensen came aboard.

    The Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, The Beatles, Frank Sinatra estates does a better job than what EPE has done with Elvis in terms of being marketed and promoted.
    Hendrix left a mess-and the family has had to sort it out since his death-just recently a new album of his music came out that is great but it took this long for the family to get it out because of differing companies and individuals claiming ownership of his music.
    Promotion for Hendrix has been spotty up until this last couple years as the knot of legal strings was untangled. He had a lot of unreleased music in the can-unlike Elvis. The Beatles did not own the music of their greatest hits but a percentage of it-but they did have better contracts with their labels ....after they formed Apple-they owned everything they did-unlike Elvis who owned ZIP of his master recording. The Beatles also had a premium royaltee rate compared to Elvis. You own the music you do not need to worry about selling lipstick.
    Paul,Yoko and Ringo have a tight handle on what can or can not be done-and Paul alone is worth over 1 billion-he can be selective.
    Sinatra formed his own Reprise Records in the early 60s and he owned all music from there on, Dean Martin recorded for his label, so did many others Sinatra after 1960 was financially secure and his family-he had many concert films, live recording, tv shows, appearances and specials in his vaults and his lifestyle was totally different from Elvis-Sinatra called the shots-not his manager nor agents.
    Joplin has little promotion, and very little unreleased music.
    Its easier to market when you own the music and are in better financial shape at death.
    Work in Progress!

  11. #31
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Anyone else want to jump on the bandwagon and chastise me for "NOT being a true fan"
    Or for saying
    "That I do not care or buy most of the things they market-BUT I do see how it was a necessity without the music or films in their ownership"
    Or because I do not hate Priscilla, Lisa, nor anyone else who is involved.
    Or because I see Elvis himself as less than perfect because his lack of financial long range planning, lack of business savvy is as much to blame as anything in this situation.
    Or because I look at what Elvis himself authorized to be done "while alive" and see years of B-movies, lackluster soundtracks and many items that had absolutely nothing to do with music-marketed in his name and for which he received a royaltee (not as much as Parker but he got it) and surmise by those actions (while he was alive) that he had accepted this end of business as the way its done.
    So if anyone else wants to jump on me-okay
    I stand by my opinions!
    Work in Progress!

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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Hendrix left a mess-and the family has had to sort it out since his death-just recently a new album of his music came out that is great but it took this long for the family to get it out because of differing companies and individuals claiming ownership of his music.
    Promotion for Hendrix has been spotty up until this last couple years as the knot of legal strings was untangled. He had a lot of unreleased music in the can-unlike Elvis. The Beatles did not own the music of their greatest hits but a percentage of it-but they did have better contracts with their labels ....after they formed Apple-they owned everything they did-unlike Elvis who owned ZIP of his master recording. The Beatles also had a premium royaltee rate compared to Elvis. You own the music you do not need to worry about selling lipstick.
    Paul,Yoko and Ringo have a tight handle on what can or can not be done-and Paul alone is worth over 1 billion-he can be selective.
    Sinatra formed his own Reprise Records in the early 60s and he owned all music from there on, Dean Martin recorded for his label, so did many others Sinatra after 1960 was financially secure and his family-he had many concert films, live recording, tv shows, appearances and specials in his vaults and his lifestyle was totally different from Elvis-Sinatra called the shots-not his manager nor agents.
    Joplin has little promotion, and very little unreleased music.
    Its easier to market when you own the music and are in better financial shape at death.
    Who says EPE would do things any differently than RCA had they owned the rights to Elvis catalog and they controlled his music output.

    Who says if they had complete control over that they wouldn't still sell crappy merchandise.

    I think if EPE did own all that stuff they still operate it in the way that RCA/BMG/Sony did.

    I'm not an expert on all those artists i meant that their images were more tastefully promoted and their labels didn't flood the market with hundreds of compilations.

    Elvis is alone in that regard.

    I did think the Beatles lost the rights to their songs at some point in late 60s and they don't control what compilations their label put out.

  13. #33
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I am sorry I see a huge difference-it is you who only sees one side.
    I understand Elvis the Artist-I understand ducks, lipstick and all the other merchandise have absolutely nothing to do with ELVIS THE ARTIST
    But you somehow seem to think that marketing some other items that are somehow associated with music, guitars, pianos, sheet music, etc...is the proper route for merchandising-I do not know about pianos, but I do know guitars, sheet music, picture books, special books on the life of Elvis, etc are sold by EPE.....you say I talk about LEGAL-sorry for bringing up hard facts of life-but LEGAL is what set this all in motion. Elvis not having a better more specific will and not having a better financial situation at death-set this all in motion......yet you want to ignore that, ignore the wishes of the man who should have more sayso upon his death ...than me, you, anyone else-he let his greatest concern be known IN THAT LEGAL WILL!
    That concern was for "The financial security forever-of his daughter"
    But you do not like how it was done-fine, I see your point-but it does not change the fact that Elvis never, never once said DO NOT SELL anything that does not promote what "some may feel" is appropriate to my career and legacy.....It was not a concern to Elvis, he did not care-all he wanted was financial security for his daughter.
    What merchandise is appropriate in your estimation that would have been able to be sold in enough quantity year in year out- to secure the type of financial security Elvis would have wanted for his daughter?(not what you or I would feel is adequate-but in the style Elvis lived and would have wanted his daughter to live)
    So are Elvis PhotoT-Shirts acceptable? If t-shirts are-then are photo curtains/bedspreads? If they are then are rugs-shower curtains, bath mats????
    How about baseball type pennants with his name and photo?
    They all have photos of Elvis on them-but I'm sure some would not like one-or all of these items.
    You can not sell just t-shirts, souvenier booklets, photo books, pamplets, and a few $500-$2000 dollar guitars. every year.
    I would love to own a replica of the Elvis 1970 stage guitar... I play guitar ....but I can not afford it-it is just way out of reach for "most fans"
    Fender came out with a bass that EPE endorsed-but how many fans can afford one?
    Priscilla was not the only executor-there were 3-and the probate judge did not give any power to her that the others did not have-he did not say to them in his order:
    Okay you have to come up with a plan that is also mindful of the Legacy of Elvis Presley the artist" that judge ordered for them to
    "Save the estate for Lisa with a plan that makes money and grows the estate"
    Simple-thats what the will demanded, its not what you seem to want it to say-but that is the fact.
    Tasteful is not the issue that the judge was concerned with-because it is not a concern expressed by Elvis in his will-why is that hard to understand?
    As a fan your concern is Elvis the artist-but Elvis did not mention fans in his will-the heart and soul of his will is about his daughters security.
    Still I ask how is that so hard to swallow for fans-his own final wishes, his own decisions, his own concerns for his daughter.
    You want all of that put "secondary" because you do not like how it has all played out...well then someone needs a "Back to the Future time machine" and they need to go back and convince Elvis to dump Parker after he got out of the Army...then explain to him how an artist of his stature should have had at least a 10-12% royaltee rate from 1960 on (instead of an average 6-7%) that he should have owned his own music after so many years instead of it becoming the sole property of RCA-and that selling 90% of his artist royaltees for pre 73 music was just stupid!
    If you can go back and change all those things the financial crisis of 1980 for the estate will be averted and none of this would be a concern for fans.
    The estate would have had artist royaltees in 1977-79 for about 100 million to 200 million in sales according to differing estimates and that amount would have more than been enough to keep Graceland from opening for tickets sales and all that has happened since that time.
    That is the reality of the situation-that is the truth.
    I do not feel EPE has done anything that was not started by the terrible financial situation that existed in 1977 and "what has been called the dumbest deal in music history" the selling of those artist royaltees in 1973.
    Not one person here has to buy a thing EPE markets, not one person has to go to Graceland, not one person has to buy SONY marketed records that are repackaged every single year-but someone does and that is there right...as long as they do-it will be sold.
    I have no ax to grind with EPE, Priscilla, or Lisa....I understand the situation Brian said Elvis did not like confrontation
    I understand that also-he was not a superhuman- he had faults and unfortunately he did not have financial savvy he trusted Parker to set up the best deals and he was taken and it is the prime reason for this situation.
    I get exactly where your coming from Ken, its frustrating to fans that Elvis isn't treated with more reverence musically, worldwide like we all believe he should be......but it is unfortunate his image has surpassed everything else. Ultimately the buck does have to stop at his door......
    "NO-ONE, BUT NO-ONE,IS HIS EQUAL, OR EVER WILL BE. HE WAS, AND IS SUPREME".Mick Jagger

  14. #34
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I am sorry I see a huge difference-it is you who only sees one side.
    I understand Elvis the Artist-I understand ducks, lipstick and all the other merchandise have absolutely nothing to do with ELVIS THE ARTIST
    But you somehow seem to think that marketing some other items that are somehow associated with music, guitars, pianos, sheet music, etc...is the proper route for merchandising-I do not know about pianos, but I do know guitars, sheet music, picture books, special books on the life of Elvis, etc are sold by EPE.....you say I talk about LEGAL-sorry for bringing up hard facts of life-but LEGAL is what set this all in motion. Elvis not having a better more specific will and not having a better financial situation at death-set this all in motion......yet you want to ignore that, ignore the wishes of the man who should have more sayso upon his death ...than me, you, anyone else-he let his greatest concern be known IN THAT LEGAL WILL!
    That concern was for "The financial security forever-of his daughter"
    But you do not like how it was done-fine, I see your point-but it does not change the fact that Elvis never, never once said DO NOT SELL anything that does not promote what "some may feel" is appropriate to my career and legacy.....It was not a concern to Elvis, he did not care-all he wanted was financial security for his daughter.
    What merchandise is appropriate in your estimation that would have been able to be sold in enough quantity year in year out- to secure the type of financial security Elvis would have wanted for his daughter?(not what you or I would feel is adequate-but in the style Elvis lived and would have wanted his daughter to live)
    So are Elvis PhotoT-Shirts acceptable? If t-shirts are-then are photo curtains/bedspreads? If they are then are rugs-shower curtains, bath mats????
    How about baseball type pennants with his name and photo?
    They all have photos of Elvis on them-but I'm sure some would not like one-or all of these items.
    You can not sell just t-shirts, souvenier booklets, photo books, pamplets, and a few $500-$2000 dollar guitars. every year.
    I would love to own a replica of the Elvis 1970 stage guitar... I play guitar ....but I can not afford it-it is just way out of reach for "most fans"
    Fender came out with a bass that EPE endorsed-but how many fans can afford one?
    Priscilla was not the only executor-there were 3-and the probate judge did not give any power to her that the others did not have-he did not say to them in his order:
    Okay you have to come up with a plan that is also mindful of the Legacy of Elvis Presley the artist" that judge ordered for them to
    "Save the estate for Lisa with a plan that makes money and grows the estate"
    Simple-thats what the will demanded, its not what you seem to want it to say-but that is the fact.
    Tasteful is not the issue that the judge was concerned with-because it is not a concern expressed by Elvis in his will-why is that hard to understand?
    As a fan your concern is Elvis the artist-but Elvis did not mention fans in his will-the heart and soul of his will is about his daughters security.
    Still I ask how is that so hard to swallow for fans-his own final wishes, his own decisions, his own concerns for his daughter.
    You want all of that put "secondary" because you do not like how it has all played out...well then someone needs a "Back to the Future time machine" and they need to go back and convince Elvis to dump Parker after he got out of the Army...then explain to him how an artist of his stature should have had at least a 10-12% royaltee rate from 1960 on (instead of an average 6-7%) that he should have owned his own music after so many years instead of it becoming the sole property of RCA-and that selling 90% of his artist royaltees for pre 73 music was just stupid!
    If you can go back and change all those things the financial crisis of 1980 for the estate will be averted and none of this would be a concern for fans.
    The estate would have had artist royaltees in 1977-79 for about 100 million to 200 million in sales according to differing estimates and that amount would have more than been enough to keep Graceland from opening for tickets sales and all that has happened since that time.
    That is the reality of the situation-that is the truth.
    I do not feel EPE has done anything that was not started by the terrible financial situation that existed in 1977 and "what has been called the dumbest deal in music history" the selling of those artist royaltees in 1973.
    Not one person here has to buy a thing EPE markets, not one person has to go to Graceland, not one person has to buy SONY marketed records that are repackaged every single year-but someone does and that is there right...as long as they do-it will be sold.
    I have no ax to grind with EPE, Priscilla, or Lisa....I understand the situation Brian said Elvis did not like confrontation
    I understand that also-he was not a superhuman- he had faults and unfortunately he did not have financial savvy he trusted Parker to set up the best deals and he was taken and it is the prime reason for this situation.
    OK. I give up !
    But what do you think Elvis should have specified in his will to be treated with respect? It's true that he didn't say don't relate my image to all that crap, but he didn't either specify "sell me to the highest bidder and make me look like an as*hole"!
    You wanna talk about his will. Right, we can do it. But I can't see this last supposed instruction specied anywhere either. So, as I said, it's the desicion of the person in charge what I don't agree with. There are other ways to make money off Elvis' brand, but they don't like them because it possibly means making less money. Period.
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  15. #35
    PeacockLady Diane's Avatar
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Looks like everything has been said that could be so my little two pennies worth is that having Elvis.com post here doesn't bother me at all and if you don't like it being the majority on this site, like someone else said....start your own posts!

  16. #36
    Tupelo Cake Donut's Avatar
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Anyone else want to jump on the bandwagon and chastise me for "NOT being a true fan"
    Or for saying
    "That I do not care or buy most of the things they market-BUT I do see how it was a necessity without the music or films in their ownership"
    Or because I do not hate Priscilla, Lisa, nor anyone else who is involved.
    Or because I see Elvis himself as less than perfect because his lack of financial long range planning, lack of business savvy is as much to blame as anything in this situation.
    Or because I look at what Elvis himself authorized to be done "while alive" and see years of B-movies, lackluster soundtracks and many items that had absolutely nothing to do with music-marketed in his name and for which he received a royaltee (not as much as Parker but he got it) and surmise by those actions (while he was alive) that he had accepted this end of business as the way its done.
    So if anyone else wants to jump on me-okay
    I stand by my opinions!
    No one is telling you you are not a real fan, KPM. It's just a matter of having different opinions.
    I don't want to jump on you especifically. It's just that you have a point of view completelly different to mine, so it's you who I have to disagree with
    _________________

  17. #37
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    OK. I give up !
    But what do you think Elvis should have specified in his will to be treated with respect? It's true that he didn't say don't relate my image to all that crap, but he didn't either specify "sell me to the highest bidder and make me look like an as*hole"!
    You wanna talk about his will. Right, we can do it. But I can't see this last supposed instruction specied anywhere either. So, as I said, it's the desicion of the person in charge what I don't agree with. There are other ways to make money off Elvis' brand, but they don't like them because it possibly means making less money. Period.
    Elvis in order to have a will prepared had to have a few meetings with the lawyer-Elvis would have been asked what is most important to you about your last declarations-go to any lawyer and the same basic questions will be asked....Elvis would then give the lawyer what most mattered to him and any specific bequests to others, charities etc............the lawyer would then draw up the will based upon converstations with Elvis...THE IMPORTANT THING (singular) was Lisas security.....other than Vernon and Dodger-no one else is left a thing. No charity is left a thing.
    Now that tells you what Elvis cared about most-his daughter.
    Now if Elvis' legacy was his main concern he could have specified in great detail what he did not want done to keep the estate afloat and growing.
    A common way to keep a persons image, or perceived image, intact after death is something similar to this:
    Under no circumstances should my name or image be used in enterprises that I myself did not approve or participate in during my lifetime.
    Its obvious Elvis could not have used this - because he did approve merchandise for profit during his lifetime that was all over the board as I have pointed out.
    Curtains have nothing to do with music, nor lipstick, nor t-shirts,statues, lamps with his likeness on the shades, I mean over 300 items in 56 alone but all approved by Elvis.
    So-ooo since that blanket statement could not be used, they could have made a list of things that were okay to market and ones that Elvis might not like done...thats one way he could have specified his ideas of how he wanted his likeness used...but then again Elvis did not give Parker a list in 56 he left that to Parker to decide.....Parker came up with all kinds of off the wall items-and they were sold in Elvis' name.
    But Elvis had to be advised that since you have no idea for sure what condition your estate will be in at death-leaving all options on the table for your executor is the smart way to proceed-so Elvis left everything to the executors first Vernon, then the 3 party joint executors which came after Vernon died to do whatever it took, whatever course he gave them carte blanche to do anything and everything as long as it benefited the estate-not his legacy nor image-but the estate in trust for Lisa-Elvis chose that path.
    Some actors would never do commercials, they felt they had nothing to do with the art of acting and just would not do them nor would they endorse any product....others will endorse things but only if they used them and did think they were as good as advertised.....did Elvis have this attitude during his career-Thats what I am talking about...

    Elvis set the precedent during his life about what he would or would not do in product deals...did he really use the Elvis comb? Did he really prefer the Pink LIpstick with his name on it for his girlfriends? I would doubt it
    I truthfully from my own point of view wish he had never allowed the marketing of his image in 56......I think it was not necessary to keep his career going-but it was a huge amount of money that was made for Parker and Elvis....and thats the way Parker sold the idea to Elvis-its a huge amount of cash in your pocket.
    Elvis did not ask-aren't there other ways to profit from my fame-other than lipstick and bedspreads-he pocketed his share every time a check came in (and spent it just as quick)
    I love Elvis and his music, love his smile, love his laugh-but his whole professional career was a mixture of great art and money making at its extreme.
    He chose that mixture-he trusted Parker and he chose to keep him in charge-
    "Thats Allright Mama" great art and revolutionary,
    "Clambake" money making at its extreme
    "Hound Dog" great art...........
    .Pink Elvis lipstick money making at its exteme.........
    "Don't" great art....
    "Elvis comb" money making at its extreme...
    "Old MacDonald" money making at its exteme.....
    "Teddy Bear wearing western shirt like in Loving You" money making at its extreme....
    "Teddy Bear" the song great art........
    Elvis condoned this mixture his whole career..................

    EPE endorsed Mr Potato Head-money making at its extreme
    EPE buying back 68 Special and putting out a great boxset-showcasing the image and art of Elvis
    EPE endorsed Potholders-money making at its extreme
    EPE producing the Elvis in Concert big screen world tours-showcasing the image and art of Elvis
    I could go on and on, but the idea is clear...
    Last edited by KPM; 04-21-2013 at 11:10 AM.
    Work in Progress!

  18. #38
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    No one is telling you you are not a real fan, KPM. It's just a matter of having different opinions.
    I don't want to jump on you especifically. It's just that you have a point of view completelly different to mine, so it's you who I have to disagree with
    No I was not thinking of you with that statement-the first post in this thread mentioned something about real fans do not even go to the EPE site-let alone want it posting stories here.
    I was actually trying to add a spark of humor into this conversation......it does not matter to me how many people want to join the bandwagon of chastisement-the more the merrier.
    I really see a huge large diference in Parker and EPE-Parker had everything in Elvis while alive ongoing recordings, ongoing film career, huge concert career yet he squandered it by his controlling manipulative snowman ways-EPE inherited the remnants after Elvis died.
    Work in Progress!

  19. #39
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    Who says EPE would do things any differently than RCA had they owned the rights to Elvis catalog and they controlled his music output.

    Who says if they had complete control over that they wouldn't still sell crappy merchandise.

    I think if EPE did own all that stuff they still operate it in the way that RCA/BMG/Sony did.

    I'm not an expert on all those artists i meant that their images were more tastefully promoted and their labels didn't flood the market with hundreds of compilations.

    Elvis is alone in that regard.

    I did think the Beatles lost the rights to their songs at some point in late 60s and they don't control what compilations their label put out.
    Well Brian you are correct in that there is no way of knowing how the estate would have proceeded if it had owned the music and controlled it.....but....it was the finacial crisis of bankruptcy that started this ball......that would not have been the case if all the royaltees for his entire catalogue were incoming after his death, no denying that...
    no crisis no ticket sales at Graceland,
    no crisis any merchandise marketed could have been much more selective because the emphasis would not have been-we have to dig out of a whole.
    no crisis more emphasis could have been spent on quality... not quantity of sales
    no crisis more emphasis upon legacy right from day one

    As far as how EPE would have marketed the Elvis music-I'm just not sure there is any other way to market Elvis without "unreleased good music in the vaults" so maybe you are correct. Ernst has explained many times-the reissues of great hits, or albums are for non fans, the FTD label and select regular releases are for the FANS.
    Elvis still sells thousands weekly, he is still seen in record stores on a regular basis and new fans do come from the reissues so even though I think the marketing of reissues has been overkill-someone is buying those reissues.
    The Beatles did not own their first years of recorded music but when they opened their own label, Apple, most of the music from then on was all theirs
    Work in Progress!

  20. #40
    Tupelo Cake Donut's Avatar
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    Re: TCB World, a division of EPE or Elvis.com number 2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I could go on and on, but the idea is clear...
    Yeah, I could go on too, but the idea it's clear.
    You know? I have nothing against of you personally, so don't get offense. But sometimes we wonder how our society has come to this point and the answer it's right in front of us.
    Money it's not everything in life.
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