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Thread: True or False?

  1. #21
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    That is true Lamar probably wouldn't have admitted it if he had done it.

    I mean it may have been Goldman's utter contempt for Elvis and not Lamar's words.
    Yes that I agree, Lamar provided information and contacts-Goldman provided the contempt and the hate for Elvis.
    Work in Progress!

  2. #22
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    I hope everyone takes a look at the photos on this link-never seen them before and it is a record of the story we are discussing:
    http://elvismomentsintime.freeforums...show-t551.html
    Work in Progress!

  3. #23
    TCB Mafia Snake Eyes's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I hope everyone takes a look at the photos on this link-never seen them before and it is a record of the story we are discussing:
    http://elvismomentsintime.freeforums...show-t551.html
    Nope, never seen them either. Still find it hard to believe no one noticed him, but the proof is there.

  4. #24
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    Re: True or False?

    It could be that the minute after those photo's were taken people could have started coming up to Elvis and saying hi.

    I don't see any bystander's in the photo's passing Elvis by just him and Steve Binder standing outside on an empty street.

    In any case not being mobbed is not a good gauge of where someone's career is at.

    The way Steve Binder tells it he did it to prove to Elvis that his career was in the toilet and he wasn't a big deal anymore.

    However as i said hasbeen celebrites will get recognized by some people does that mean their careers aren't in trouble.

    If it's true about residents of Hollywood and Los Angeles not paying attention to celebrities then it isn't a big deal that no one acknowleged Elvis because they wouldn't have acknowledged Steve McQueen or the biggest stars on the planet at that time.
    Elvis wouldn't have been acknowledged by them in 1958 either.

    If the hippes and the people into the 1960s counter culture didn't acknowledge Elvis that's not a big deal because they weren't his audience and they wouldn't have bought his records or paid to see him in concert regardless of what he did.

    Also there is a difference between no one recognizing you and not being fawned over.

    The way Steve Binder tells it no one recognized Elvis and i find it hard to believe because at the very least people would remember Elvis from 11 years ago wiggling on the Ed Sullivan show.
    Elvis' wedding the year before had been all in the news and in the papers.

    These are the reasons that i think Steve Binder is being disingenious and even if what he says actually happened he's still exaggerating what being recognized or not being acknowledged actually means.

  5. #25
    TCB Mafia hounddog's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    great photos completely new to me.
    I never looked for trouble but I never ran.

  6. #26
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    It could be that the minute after those photo's were taken people could have started coming up to Elvis and saying hi.

    I don't see any bystander's in the photo's passing Elvis by just him and Steve Binder standing outside on an empty street.

    In any case not being mobbed is not a good gauge of where someone's career is at.

    The way Steve Binder tells it he did it to prove to Elvis that his career was in the toilet and he wasn't a big deal anymore.

    However as i said hasbeen celebrites will get recognized by some people does that mean their careers aren't in trouble.

    If it's true about residents of Hollywood and Los Angeles not paying attention to celebrities then it isn't a big deal that no one acknowleged Elvis because they wouldn't have acknowledged Steve McQueen or the biggest stars on the planet at that time.
    Elvis wouldn't have been acknowledged by them in 1958 either.

    If the hippes and the people into the 1960s counter culture didn't acknowledge Elvis that's not a big deal because they weren't his audience and they wouldn't have bought his records or paid to see him in concert regardless of what he did.

    Also there is a difference between no one recognizing you and not being fawned over.

    The way Steve Binder tells it no one recognized Elvis and i find it hard to believe because at the very least people would remember Elvis from 11 years ago wiggling on the Ed Sullivan show.
    Elvis' wedding the year before had been all in the news and in the papers.

    These are the reasons that i think Steve Binder is being disingenious and even if what he says actually happened he's still exaggerating what being recognized or not being acknowledged actually means.
    Elvis's reasoning for not going for a walk was he would be mobbed or cause a scene and thats why he could not walk down the street-that just did not happen..he may very well have been noticed and recognised...it took a couple days for Elvis to change his mind and take the walk outside-Why would he change his mind? Perhaps to see "just what would happen" IE he had doubts of his own-he trusted the word of Binder and he wanted to see for himself what would happen.

    To give Binder his due he does say (in the interview I provided) that if it had been announced that Elvis Presley was going to be standing on the street at a certain time-Elvis would have had a huge crowd and maybe been mobbed as he usually was.
    I think Binder was trying to show Elvis-you need a change, you need new direction, you need to really fully commit to this special because what you have been doing...is not winning you fans like it use to in the past.......IE Elvis could no longer coast on movies and music that were substandard.
    Was Binder wrong-No. Right here we have been saying that for years.
    Would the Colonel have been content to let Elvis coast on the special-Yes-he wanted Elvis do a
    "Christmas Special...ala...Crosby or Andy Williams" ....Colonel saw a big payday and also help in producing another movie later...Colonel was not thinking lets make changes-he was thinking....lets do what will play to the die hard fans. Parker use to brag about 500,000 die hard fans that will buy anything-thats truely all he cared about- getting those 500,000 to pay for.....whatever Elvis put out......forget new fans, forget growth for Elvis.
    Binder wanted Elvis to see that continuing on the career road he was on-was not progressive.... it was regressive.
    The hippies were not into Elvis-thats for sure-but they were into the Beatles, the Stones, Doors, Led Zepplin etc.....they may have been called "counter culture" but they were top of the charts and selling like crazy....Elvis just was not top of the charts from 63 till 68....WHY?
    Because the formula needed to be changed, because music had evolved and the movie soundtracks were not cutting the mustard.
    Elvis himself knew this-he complained to everyone about the quality of his films and music-people like Binder helped him gain confidence in making a change......I wish a 100 Binders had pushed their way thru Parker to help Elvis see that ....he could make changes without the Colonels advice and it would not destroy his career.
    Without Binder, what has been described as a glorious rebirth for Elvis could have been called "a Christmas special with 20 hymns and commercials"
    nothing wrong with that for me, or the regular fans-but would Elvis have gained that new found respect among non fans-that the 68 Special brought him with Binders direction, support and spirit.
    Elvis said many times
    " It doesnt bother me to have fans want an autograph.....its when no one asks that I have to worry"
    IMO Just enough doubt was planted in that 10-15 minutes on the street to fire Elvis up...to make him want to explode on screen in this special-and thats what happened.
    Work in Progress!

  7. #27
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    Re: True or False?

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    .
    The hippies were not into Elvis-thats for sure-but they were into the Beatles, the Stones, Doors, Led Zepplin etc.....they may have been called "counter culture" but they were top of the charts and selling like crazy....Elvis just was not top of the charts from 63 till 68....WHY?
    Because the formula needed to be changed, because music had evolved and the movie soundtracks were not cutting the mustard.
    Elvis himself knew this-he complained to everyone about the quality of his films and music-people like Binder helped him gain confidence in making a change.
    That's true but everyone around Elvis knew all of this which is another reason why that makes Binder's point of walking out on street pointless.

    All anyone had to do was look at the grosses of Elvis' movies and his record sales to see that his career was in a slump.

    If Elvis was mobbed like Lamar Fike claimed that wouldn't change that.

  8. #28
    TCB Mafia Snake Eyes's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Elvis's reasoning for not going for a walk was he would be mobbed or cause a scene and thats why he could not walk down the street-that just did not happen..he may very well have been noticed and recognised...it took a couple days for Elvis to change his mind and take the walk outside-Why would he change his mind? Perhaps to see "just what would happen" IE he had doubts of his own-he trusted the word of Binder and he wanted to see for himself what would happen.

    To give Binder his due he does say (in the interview I provided) that if it had been announced that Elvis Presley was going to be standing on the street at a certain time-Elvis would have had a huge crowd and maybe been mobbed as he usually was.
    I think Binder was trying to show Elvis-you need a change, you need new direction, you need to really fully commit to this special because what you have been doing...is not winning you fans like it use to in the past.......IE Elvis could no longer coast on movies and music that were substandard.
    Was Binder wrong-No. Right here we have been saying that for years.
    Would the Colonel have been content to let Elvis coast on the special-Yes-he wanted Elvis do a
    "Christmas Special...ala...Crosby or Andy Williams" ....Colonel saw a big payday and also help in producing another movie later...Colonel was not thinking lets make changes-he was thinking....lets do what will play to the die hard fans. Parker use to brag about 500,000 die hard fans that will buy anything-thats truely all he cared about- getting those 500,000 to pay for.....whatever Elvis put out......forget new fans, forget growth for Elvis.
    Binder wanted Elvis to see that continuing on the career road he was on-was not progressive.... it was regressive.
    The hippies were not into Elvis-thats for sure-but they were into the Beatles, the Stones, Doors, Led Zepplin etc.....they may have been called "counter culture" but they were top of the charts and selling like crazy....Elvis just was not top of the charts from 63 till 68....WHY?
    Because the formula needed to be changed, because music had evolved and the movie soundtracks were not cutting the mustard.
    Elvis himself knew this-he complained to everyone about the quality of his films and music-people like Binder helped him gain confidence in making a change......I wish a 100 Binders had pushed their way thru Parker to help Elvis see that ....he could make changes without the Colonels advice and it would not destroy his career.
    Without Binder, what has been described as a glorious rebirth for Elvis could have been called "a Christmas special with 20 hymns and commercials"
    nothing wrong with that for me, or the regular fans-but would Elvis have gained that new found respect among non fans-that the 68 Special brought him with Binders direction, support and spirit.
    Elvis said many times
    " It doesnt bother me to have fans want an autograph.....its when no one asks that I have to worry"
    IMO Just enough doubt was planted in that 10-15 minutes on the street to fire Elvis up...to make him want to explode on screen in this special-and thats what happened.
    Love this statement, so true.

  9. #29
    International Level Cliff's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    Looking back on this, it makes you wonder if it is urban myth or just a very clever move on Binder's part.
    In some ways it gives you the impression that Elvis was not in touch with reality. He must have known that the glory days were over and he was no longer as popular as he once was. Even his movies at that time were only shown at drive ins, and then only as an opener for the main feature.
    If he had this view he would have never set foot out of his house.
    My feeling is Binder wanted to get away from Parker to talk more freely with Elvis.
    Thanks for the wonderful pics !!




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  10. #30
    I'm only Your elvia7's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane View Post
    No way of knowing for sure whether the event happened as Steve Binder said it but it is incredible to believe that someone with Elvis' striking unique looks could go about without anyone recognizing him. I don't know what to believe....
    Agree with you Dee - "No way of knowing for sure whether the event happened as Steve Binder said", we remain speculation.
    I'll Remember You!!!

  11. #31
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    That's true but everyone around Elvis knew all of this which is another reason why that makes Binder's point of walking out on street pointless.

    All anyone had to do was look at the grosses of Elvis' movies and his record sales to see that his career was in a slump.If Elvis was mobbed like Lamar Fike claimed that wouldn't change that.
    But Elvis was still making huge money, he still was treated like royalty and Parker wanted Elvis to feel everything was under control........as long as Elvis was kept insulated from "real critiques" he could not know the full extent of "his career slump".
    How do you really give someone who is that insulated, that protected from bad news and reality-a true idea of what is going on beyond the insulation? You show them so they see "with their own eyes" that things are not exactly as expected.
    Everyone around Elvis may have known a lot of things-but sharing them with Elvis is another story.......I keep thinking of Joe in EOT telling Elvis
    "Good show, good show"!!!
    All of the guys were guilty of "Good show, Good show" during their employment with Elvis-good news was always what they brought-never the bad, never the bad reviews, never a true critique of music, shows, films etc...........
    Binder was not playing that game-neither was Marty Pasette from the Aloha special...Elvis listened and the shows were better for the truth he was given.
    Binder was not doing "Good Show, Good Show"...he was dealing with an insulated individual who needed some reality about where music was-and how the world viewed the career of Elvis.....
    Binder did not buckle to the Colonel, and he liked that Elvis seemed to be refreshed from some straight shooting for a change...instead of :
    "All is well, Good show good show"
    The thought Elvis had was-"I can not do this-because I will be mobbed and perhaps cause problems on a public street etc"
    That just did not happen-whether he was noticed, whether he was asked for one autograph or ten, .....no mob situation happened, no riot, no uncomfortable problem on a public street, no need for police protection etc.........BUT Elvis was worried about all of the above and took a couple days to decide "Lets try this"
    Binder tells the story, Bones Howe backs it up, Esposito is mentioned, a fan named Bobby is mentioned who was at the offices that day.......Lamar is not mentioned anywhere in the published books that report the story....he is not named as going out with Elvis, he is not named as being in the small group who watched from a window (not proof he was not involved-but its a fact he is not mentioned anywhere except in his own interviews or books)
    Now we get to the "eye of the beholder factor" one persons MOB may be a few people....and visa versa........but it seems a fact-Elvis was not in danger, he was not put in a stressful situation that required special protection in fact in the photos he looks calm and relaxed.
    Elvis's fears of stepping out onto the street-were at that moment unrealized...the worst did not happen...the Hopkins book released in 1970 was not refuted by anyone who was in a position to know the truth.....not even Lamar....if it was a major point of contention for Elvis or detrimental to the image of Elvis-the Colonel or Elvis would have objected I would think...they never did.
    So although we have differing accounts-the weight of the scale seems to be tipped in the direction of the Binder account based on more people back his story or claim to have been there....no news stories about a mob scene on SB the day this happened in June of 68
    (which surely would have happened if a real mob scene had happened-Rona Barrett and Hedda Hopper had spies all over just to catch things like this for their magazine gossip articles)
    and lastly-this story came out in print in 1970 and not one word of disagreement from anyone in Elvis's camp.
    But "eye of the beholder" is a factor.
    Work in Progress!

  12. #32
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    Re: True or False?

    I too, have read this account in numerous books/articles. It very well could be true. Elvis lived outside of the public eye for so long, that it is quite possible that poeple just simply wouldn't expect him to be standing on the street in California.

    IM

  13. #33
    TCB Mafia Snake Eyes's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane View Post
    No way of knowing for sure whether the event happened as Steve Binder said it but it is incredible to believe that someone with Elvis' striking unique looks could go about without anyone recognizing him. I don't know what to believe....
    I know, it's actually quite shocking

  14. #34
    Too Much Monkey Business Jumpsuit Junkie's Avatar
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    Re: True or False?

    To be perfectly honest, Binder could be talking up an event, however having read the full interview, the general vibe given by Binder is a positive one and he really doesn't seem to have an axe to grind. Binder seems to have good recollections of Elvis, so I am prepared to give the story the benefit of the doubt until there is concrete evidence to the contrary.

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