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Thread: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

  1. #21
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by elvia7 View Post
    No! He could not help himself. You do not know what stress he lived?
    J. Lennon what he said? "No human being would not be able to withstand being ELVIS PRESLEY!"
    Please, this is such a cop out. No one said no to Elvis because he never accepted no. I agree, most of the MM were scum, but Elvis needed to grow a pair and boot them and take contol of his own life.

    There is only one to blame and that is Elvis.

    If he were "stressed" and depressed, he surrounded himself with the wrong people to get through it, I agree. Again, it's on him to surround himself with the right people - friends, family AND professionals.

  2. #22
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Elvis surrounded himself with people he knew and grew up with....wouldn't anyone do the same? Just bad luck that they were the way they were. He needed people around as that was how he grew up with a lot of people around him. He just wasn't good at telling anyone to hit the door. It's not easy for a lot of people so let's give him some slack. I don't know anyone who deals with everything they way they should.

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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Elvis was not allowed to make mistakes because anyone whos THE KING can't make an error, and now in death hes not allowed to be human...the same expectations about his life exist..the same standard of his every move should have been perfect because he was THE KING.
    I can not pass judgement upon how he lived, I did not live it.
    I can not pass judgement upon on how pressures, tensions, and insecurities for him could have been affected by those around him, I did not feel it.
    I can not pass judgement upon his path in life and his walk....I did not walk in his shoes.
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  4. #24

    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by rocknroll View Post
    Please, this is such a cop out. No one said no to Elvis because he never accepted no. I agree, most of the MM were scum, but Elvis needed to grow a pair and boot them and take contol of his own life.

    There is only one to blame and that is Elvis.

    If he were "stressed" and depressed, he surrounded himself with the wrong people to get through it, I agree. Again, it's on him to surround himself with the right people - friends, family AND professionals.
    I agree with some of that. But the Colonel had Elvis locked down like a prisoner. He manipulated Elvis and bullied him and his entourage. Elvis lost confidence in himself because of Parker and it led him to depression and like Elvisa said, stress. That all led to the drug abuse. The stress is what killed him and wore on his heart physically. Not the drugs. He also had bad eating habits that contributed to his health problems.

    Elvis should have fired some of the Mafia around 1969. When he moved on from Scotty Moore and DJ Fontana and The Jordanaires as his band, he should have moved on from the Mafia as well. But Elvis became too dependent on them that he couldn't part ways with them. That was his biggest problem.
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    I just don't agree with people who say the Memphis Mafia did not try to help him. We do not know because we were not there, they could have tried to help him but failed each time. I do think they were afraid to push to hard so they wouldn't be kicked out of the group but there is only so much they could do any way. Elvis had to be the one who says, I have a problem but he didn't think he was doing anything wrong. You know Vernon had to know there was a problem but did he try to help, we don't know if he did or not.

    I think if Linda couldn't get him to see the light, then the MM were sure not going to get him to stop either.
    Love Elvis...The Greatest

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  6. #26
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by King Of The Whole World View Post
    I just don't agree with people who say the Memphis Mafia did not try to help him. We do not know because we were not there, they could have tried to help him but failed each time. I do think they were afraid to push to hard so they wouldn't be kicked out of the group but there is only so much they could do any way. Elvis had to be the one who says, I have a problem but he didn't think he was doing anything wrong. You know Vernon had to know there was a problem but did he try to help, we don't know if he did or not.

    I think if Linda couldn't get him to see the light, then the MM were sure not going to get him to stop either.
    I do think some of the MM made "an" effort a time or two-but not as a group, not in any concerted continued effort that was supported by everyone with a plan of action....and some of the claims that have been made of trying-do not sound true to the way in which certain people are known to have acted the bulk of the time (IE Lamar and his claims of blunt comments to Elvis on all sorts of things)
    Sure we were not there but just as we can see Elvis and his life through reading, interviews and media-also the MM are just as transparent using the same sources. I think the bulk of the efforts made to "get Elvis to see the light" were hit and miss in times of great emotions and tension-and as I pointed out-that is the wrong time to help someone understand your point-it amounts to confrontation and combat.
    What if all the guys & with Parker, Vernon and Priscilla had really stood together and not wavered...and told Elvis we love you, you are falling into a terrible spiral and we are worried that you do not see it...then had a respected doctor of high standing try to make the case that many times you do not see what is happening because of the effects of the meds and how over time they can make a strong man....weak.
    But there was no orchestrated effort ever, Parker would have worried about the bad publicity and the damage to the money flow, the guys would have been worried about losing their jobs/the perks of woman and gifts and Elvis's friendship, Vernon just did not have the strength to really confront Elvis he feared his temper...by the time Priscilla had enough guts to really confront Elvis-she was leaving him....and last but not least many of the MM themselves all had bad habits from alcohol to drug usage that kept them from thinking straight 24/7.
    I can tell you it is not impossible to turn someones life around-but it takes a huge continued group effort and a
    "We wont take no for an answer attitude"
    Elvis did not want his fans to know of his problems-he wan't to keep the lid on.........thats evident by his trying to stop the book EWH perhaps if everyone had stood up and said-"You let us get you help....or we all go to the press and everyone will know" might have saved his life.
    There are no guarantees in things like this-but I know one thing for sure....no effort such as I describe was ever tried.
    Its true Elvis had to see his problem-but very few people in downward spirals just suddenly sit up one morning and all on their own decide
    "Wow I am in trouble"
    Someone or something has to spur that moment to reality....no one ever did.
    No man is an island is not just my motto-its the truth.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I do think some of the MM made "an" effort a time or two-but not as a group, not in any concerted continued effort that was supported by everyone with a plan of action....and some of the claims that have been made of trying-do not sound true to the way in which certain people are known to have acted the bulk of the time (IE Lamar and his claims of blunt comments to Elvis on all sorts of things)
    Sure we were not there but just as we can see Elvis and his life through reading, interviews and media-also the MM are just as transparent using the same sources. I think the bulk of the efforts made to "get Elvis to see the light" were hit and miss in times of great emotions and tension-and as I pointed out-that is the wrong time to help someone understand your point-it amounts to confrontation and combat.
    What if all the guys & with Parker, Vernon and Priscilla had really stood together and not wavered...and told Elvis we love you, you are falling into a terrible spiral and we are worried that you do not see it...then had a respected doctor of high standing try to make the case that many times you do not see what is happening because of the effects of the meds and how over time they can make a strong man....weak.
    But there was no orchestrated effort ever, Parker would have worried about the bad publicity and the damage to the money flow, the guys would have been worried about losing their jobs/the perks of woman and gifts and Elvis's friendship, Vernon just did not have the strength to really confront Elvis he feared his temper...by the time Priscilla had enough guts to really confront Elvis-she was leaving him....and last but not least many of the MM themselves all had bad habits from alcohol to drug usage that kept them from thinking straight 24/7.
    I can tell you it is not impossible to turn someones life around-but it takes a huge continued group effort and a
    "We wont take no for an answer attitude"
    Elvis did not want his fans to know of his problems-he wan't to keep the lid on.........thats evident by his trying to stop the book EWH perhaps if everyone had stood up and said-"You let us get you help....or we all go to the press and everyone will know" might have saved his life.
    There are no guarantees in things like this-but I know one thing for sure....no effort such as I describe was ever tried.
    Its true Elvis had to see his problem-but very few people in downward spirals just suddenly sit up one morning and all on their own decide
    "Wow I am in trouble"
    Someone or something has to spur that moment to reality....no one ever did.
    No man is an island is not just my motto-its the truth.
    Thank you for a most fantastic post. Once again you explained it all with common sense. Everyone is affected by those around them whether they choose to believe it or not. I do not know anyone who is in TOTAL control of their lives and those who believe they are are self delusional.

  8. #28
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    I wouldn't blame anyone in this story. If addiction was so easy to overcome as firing or confronting someone there wouldn't be rehab centers, so many families affected and many many people dead because of it. It's a very hard problem for the addict, an extremely difficult situation for those around that person and not many people know how to handle it.
    Do you think Elvis' own father didn't care for him? Or Ed Parker, or Red, who had known him almost all his life, for instance? Larry Geller and Ed Parker tried unsuccessfully to make Elvis eat healthier and take less medication but this is the way addiction works, it completely controls you and it takes a huge willpower to get out of it. The other guys I wouldn't blame either, since they were taking pills like Elvis. How could they be of help if they were living the same way as him? To be fair, did Elvis try help them get out of drugs? From the outside it's very easy to say what Elvis and those around him should or shouldn't have done. In an ideal world he shouldn't have never started taking pills to start with and the whole world (not only his frineds) shouldn't have made Elvis believe he was larger than life. But what is done is done!
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    I think he needed to mix/socialise with other celebrities more, they are the ones who could have given him advice...new manager, different songwriters, inspiration....you know ideas generally, as they were in the limelight too...
    "NO-ONE, BUT NO-ONE,IS HIS EQUAL, OR EVER WILL BE. HE WAS, AND IS SUPREME".Mick Jagger

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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by debtdbruno View Post
    I think he needed to mix/socialise with other celebrities more, they are the ones who could have given him advice...new manager, different songwriters, inspiration....you know ideas generally, as they were in the limelight too...
    Yes you're right but the Colonel put the kibosh on that right from the start. You could say he was the Colonel's bird in a gilded cage. We don't know what the Colonel was telling him to keep him on the leash but sadly it worked and the mm were so jealous of anyone else who got near him. Sorry for so many quips but that man really was caught in a trap. The drug problem started in the army and when he lost his mom he realized it helped to dull the pain.....and it went on from there.

  11. #31
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    I wouldn't blame anyone in this story. If addiction was so easy to overcome as firing or confronting someone there wouldn't be rehab centers, so many families affected and many many people dead because of it. It's a very hard problem for the addict, an extremely difficult situation for those around that person and not many people know how to handle it.
    Do you think Elvis' own father didn't care for him? Or Ed Parker, or Red, who had known him almost all his life, for instance? Larry Geller and Ed Parker tried unsuccessfully to make Elvis eat healthier and take less medication but this is the way addiction works, it completely controls you and it takes a huge willpower to get out of it. The other guys I wouldn't blame either, since they were taking pills like Elvis. How could they be of help if they were living the same way as him? To be fair, did Elvis try help them get out of drugs? From the outside it's very easy to say what Elvis and those around him should or shouldn't have done. In an ideal world he shouldn't have never started taking pills to start with and the whole world (not only his frineds) shouldn't have made Elvis believe he was larger than life. But what is done is done!
    I agree with you.
    Love Elvis...The Greatest

    RIP Tommy


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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by vivaelvis View Post
    I agree with some of that. But the Colonel had Elvis locked down like a prisoner. He manipulated Elvis and bullied him and his entourage. Elvis lost confidence in himself because of Parker and it led him to depression and like Elvisa said, stress. That all led to the drug abuse. The stress is what killed him and wore on his heart physically. Not the drugs. He also had bad eating habits that contributed to his health problems.

    Elvis should have fired some of the Mafia around 1969. When he moved on from Scotty Moore and DJ Fontana and The Jordanaires as his band, he should have moved on from the Mafia as well. But Elvis became too dependent on them that he couldn't part ways with them. That was his biggest problem.
    At some point Elvis should have jaw jacked Parker. I would have.

    Anyone saying Elvis had no culpability in his decline has a serious fixation with the myth and lack of perspective on his personal responsibilites.

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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by debtdbruno View Post
    I think he needed to mix/socialise with other celebrities more, they are the ones who could have given him advice...new manager, different songwriters, inspiration....you know ideas generally, as they were in the limelight too...
    He was to shy to hang out with other celebrities. It is so funny to say that considering here is a guy who is the biggest and brightest star of them all and he was shy to meet them. But this quality is also what made Elvis so humble, he didn’t see himself as this god like person.
    Love Elvis...The Greatest

    RIP Tommy


  14. #34
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by King Of The Whole World View Post
    He was to shy to hang out with other celebrities. It is so funny to say that considering here is a guy who is the biggest and brightest star of them all and he was shy to meet them. But this quality is also what made Elvis so humble, he didn’t see himself as this god like person.
    That at times seems to not be the case, right here we have had story after story by celebrities, politicians, and people of great note-who went up to the suite at the Hilton and had very fun exciting times.
    Just recently one about Donald Rumsfeld, former Secretary of Defense and assorted other high level political jobs, going to see Elvis with Sammy Davis Jr and then going backstage and having an indepth discussion about the US Army with Elvis.
    Elvis in the 50s was shy, but I really think from all the stories that he had gotten to like meeting people from time to time.
    Elvis may have felt a little insecure at such meetings, but he always seemed to enjoy them- I recall a letter Parker sent to Elvis in the early 70s in essence telling him to beware of those who want to come up and give you advice and want to put their arms around his big shoulders and flatter him-because they might not have his best interests in mind........but Parker was on the job working tirelessly for Elvis and his interest
    Elvis's insecurity was capitalized by Parker to his own interests..BEWARE THE STRANGERS
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by rocknroll View Post
    At some point Elvis should have jaw jacked Parker. I would have.

    Anyone saying Elvis had no culpability in his decline has a serious fixation with the myth and lack of perspective on his personal responsibilites.
    I totally agree in 62 or 63 he should have told Parker this is what I want and then given him a laundry lists of career goals, future tour plans, recording goals and if Parker did not want to listen Elvis should have told him Okay I'll get new management.
    Where you and I disagree is I can see how Elvis was used and kept in place for years...without even recognising it....and by the time Elvis was smartening up-it was too late. People can be snowed, people can accept someone crooked at face value and just be taken-Elvis just could not see Parker for what he was...he trusted him.
    By trusting Parker so blindly for most his career-Elvis became stagnant and bored-but was afraid to push Parker out...IMO afraid that perhaps he would fail without Colonel...that he needed him to set up the deals.

    I do not under estimate the Stealth like approach that Parker was the master of.......as I have pointed out a time or 2 Tommy Sands was managed for a short time by Parker in the 50s-and he used the same MO on Sands-he wanted to decide all aspects of Sands career and also many do's and don'ts about his private life and people around him........luckily Tommys mother very quickly jumped in and fired Parker because she could see that Parker was just too controling (she was much more astute than Vernon who was sold on Parker...Gladys was not sold on Parker but did not have the courage of Sands Mom)
    Sands went on to have a fair acting career goingthat was pretty much stopped at a standstill by Sinatra when Sands divorced Franks daughter Nancy.
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  16. #36
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    That at times seems to not be the case, right here we have had story after story by celebrities, politicians, and people of great note-who went up to the suite at the Hilton and had very fun exciting times.
    Just recently one about Donald Rumsfeld, former Secretary of Defense and assorted other high level political jobs, going to see Elvis with Sammy Davis Jr and then going backstage and having an indepth discussion about the US Army with Elvis.
    Elvis in the 50s was shy, but I really think from all the stories that he had gotten to like meeting people from time to time.
    Elvis may have felt a little insecure at such meetings, but he always seemed to enjoy them- I recall a letter Parker sent to Elvis in the early 70s in essence telling him to beware of those who want to come up and give you advice and want to put their arms around his big shoulders and flatter him-because they might not have his best interests in mind........but Parker was on the job working tirelessly for Elvis and his interest
    Elvis's insecurity was capitalized by Parker to his own interests..BEWARE THE STRANGERS
    Well some of what you say I agree with but a lot of the celebrities that talk about him today almost always say he was really shy. I think they could sense his shyness. They usually say he was shy and a lot smarter than what they expected him to be.

    Most of the time that he did meet with celebrities is what you said after his shows, the VIP’s. Very rarely did he make an effort to invite or meet someone because he wanted to, it was always one of the guys saying hey meet so and so or after his shows to mingle with the people who came to one of his Vegas shows.
    Love Elvis...The Greatest

    RIP Tommy


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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by King Of The Whole World View Post
    He was to shy to hang out with other celebrities. It is so funny to say that considering here is a guy who is the biggest and brightest star of them all and he was shy to meet them. But this quality is also what made Elvis so humble, he didnít see himself as this god like person.
    Seems like he didn't like celebreties much anyway. His lifestyle and theirs was very different overall so he could meet them and chat a little with them but he rarely let them get in his private world.
    I was very surprised to learn what Elvis used to eat or what he used to do have fun, like simply watching movies, riding golf carts or having roman candle fights at home, which is really cool IMO. Here you have this star seemingly so sophisticated and adored by the most popular celebrities while he was a modest guy with the most simple tastes. So maybe he also felt insecure with celebrities because he knew they expected him to be someone he really wasn't. I can't imagine what it must be like to constantly be observed by those people, watching my every move and pretending I am someone different and perfect all the time.
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I totally agree in 62 or 63 he should have told Parker this is what I want and then given him a laundry lists of career goals, future tour plans, recording goals and if Parker did not want to listen Elvis should have told him Okay I'll get new management.
    Where you and I disagree is I can see how Elvis was used and kept in place for years...without even recognising it....and by the time Elvis was smartening up-it was too late. People can be snowed, people can accept someone crooked at face value and just be taken-Elvis just could not see Parker for what he was...he trusted him.
    By trusting Parker so blindly for most his career-Elvis became stagnant and bored-but was afraid to push Parker out...IMO afraid that perhaps he would fail without Colonel...that he needed him to set up the deals.

    I do not under estimate the Stealth like approach that Parker was the master of.......as I have pointed out a time or 2 Tommy Sands was managed for a short time by Parker in the 50s-and he used the same MO on Sands-he wanted to decide all aspects of Sands career and also many do's and don'ts about his private life and people around him........luckily Tommys mother very quickly jumped in and fired Parker because she could see that Parker was just too controling (she was much more astute than Vernon who was sold on Parker...Gladys was not sold on Parker but did not have the courage of Sands Mom)
    Sands went on to have a fair acting career goingthat was pretty much stopped at a standstill by Sinatra when Sands divorced Franks daughter Nancy.
    It doesn't take intelligence to be greedy. Parker was one and not the other. Most saw through his game and Elvis should have also. Elvis' problem was he was complacent when he shouldn't have been. That's on him.

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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by rocknroll View Post
    It doesn't take intelligence to be greedy. Parker was one and not the other. Most saw through his game and Elvis should have also. Elvis' problem was he was complacent when he shouldn't have been. That's on him.
    Parker was "greedily intelligent" my friend when it came to making money for himself .......he was as complex as Elvis in his own way.....you call it complacency..... and I call it blind trust.
    People do have to trust someone along the way-very few people can handle every single situation in life with the expertise that situation demands-thats why entertainers/people have tax accountants, managers, doctors, dentists, electricians, plumbers, etc......as I said Elvis was beginning to see Parker without the blinders in the 70s-but the damage was done and it was too late.

    Parker knew his marks, and he could figure out how to work them to his best advantage-and he worked Elvis perfectly....just enough Stealth planting of doubt, just enough Stealth planting of beware of strangers, just enough praise and money to let Elvis see-YOU NEED THE COL.

    Elvis is not unique in trusting someone only to see later that the trust was misplaced...life in show biz and in general is littered with people who were ruined by trusting someone to much.
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    Re: Elvis: Fall From Graceland

    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    Seems like he didn't like celebreties much anyway. His lifestyle and theirs was very different overall so he could meet them and chat a little with them but he rarely let them get in his private world.
    I was very surprised to learn what Elvis used to eat or what he used to do have fun, like simply watching movies, riding golf carts or having roman candle fights at home, which is really cool IMO. Here you have this star seemingly so sophisticated and adored by the most popular celebrities while he was a modest guy with the most simple tastes. So maybe he also felt insecure with celebrities because he knew they expected him to be someone he really wasn't. I can't imagine what it must be like to constantly be observed by those people, watching my every move and pretending I am someone different and perfect all the time.
    I agree. You can count on one hand who Elvis invited over to Graceland. That was his world to get away from being "Elvis".

    He did like simple things in life. That is one of the things that I find so neat about Elvis, the movies he would watch, the food he would eat and the people who were in his inner circle.

    People will say he shouldn’t have had the guys around him but who would he hang out with. As we said he didn’t like the celebrity lifestyle so it wouldn’t be other celebrities. So who would it be? It is the guys he grew up with and the southern food of home is what kept Elvis from getting a big head.
    Love Elvis...The Greatest

    RIP Tommy


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