Anyway, I guess we'll never change each other's mind but it's been good talking to you again
A little bit when her first record came out but Lisa wouldn't of been able to get a record deal in the first place.
What really holds Lisa back from being able to achieve some recognition on her own is that she can't sing and most people don't care for her music.
That's reflected in the dismal sales from her latest album.
I like many songs in this C.D. even if I don't completely like the monotone sound of her voice. Would I buy it..no. She will always have a less than commercial fan base. IMO. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all. But it sure as heck is not about her not living up to the expectations of her being like her father. That man was gifted beyond explanation.
It can be better stated: Elvis worked his butt off. Lisa is lazy and just plays safe. I actually do like her, and like the new album sound, but again she let's herself to be overinflated with stuff like this, american idol and on and on, insted of going for hard work touring and TV shows that would be a real challenge for her in the musicianship department and not just in the media department. Sure the Opry is a big challenge, but it does sounds more like an image asset to get the respect that she should get by just playing gigs on and on... and then maybe...
Laziness is a musician worst enemy. And to take no chances, no struggles, well... there will be no excitement, no plot, and nobody will care for you.
This was her last chance to have a career of her own, and she is ruining it. Its over for her, she will be too old for another try. So many people would have sell their souls to have the chances she had, but she was such a rich spoiled drama queen to do something of value with it.
I was so excited to think we might see her growing up as an artist at last with this new album, but errr... well I think we do know that Mr. T-Bone Burnett is such a great producer, that he can even provide with some musical integrity where there is none.
Did Lisa ever though that having an obnoxious british manager who owns half the music business will make up for a serious lack on musicians hard work area?
I guess in 5 years when she releases another record we will hear her talking and talking about all the emotional issues in her life that prevented for having the record she wanted, the musical career she wanted, but oh yeah, this next one will really be it. **** Off!!!
This is not bashing her for being Elvis daughter, this is trying to see if she has musical backbone, or is more of a media creation as most "stars" today.
Last edited by Raised on Rock; 09-25-2012 at 01:53 PM.
He was not taking risks, he was not taking chances in the movie years, very few non movie songs during those years
Now before the Elvis world throws me out on my ear I try to have a level of understanding for these things that happened
Let me say again Elvis became bored, he became stymied and after 1973 did not like recording and just began to coast. He easily fell into ruts, and once he fell it took huge things to bring him out. Some might say he became "lazy" in his performances. He was not taking risks not taking chances he was dependent upon what he felt worked. His voice expanded, his range grew-when he choice to engage it.
I have been accused of being "in the understanding crowd"......yes I will agree with that...... and wear it as a badge of honor.
Everyone does have a right to voice opinions and mine takes the view that there are 2 sides to every story and that includes everyone we speak of including Elvis, Lisa, Priscilla etc.....there are factors and reasons for each person being who they are.(not excuses-real life factors)
Elvis was not perfect and he had personality flaws that I have many times tried to point out probably went back to childhood, he had medical problems such as the congenital ganglionic fold in his colon that worsened as he aged, he had a super poor childhood, overprotective mother, his father was not a strong person in many ways, he was an only child who was spoiled to an extent by his mother, he had a predilection for addiction that seems to have some roots in his genes, as did heart disease....listing all these things is not to criticize Elvis it is to point out "a level of understanding" for who he was, his mental and personalilty flaws, some of his health issues, his dependence on medications etc.........and any time I have pointed these out various things "trying to show some understanding for who he was"...who he became...very few people here have taken much issue with my points over time as real life factors in his makeup that Elvis had little control over-they were there IE- no one controls who their parents are, their financial situation in childhood, nor their genes......all affected him in ways we (or he)cannot totally understand...but they affected him.
I understand this......I understand we all have similar lists in some way shape or form that contributes quite a bit-to the people we become.
Well my understanding of Elvis is no different than my trying to understand all the others, myself or anyone really....I do not think that is a wrong approach to looking at people....trying to understand is better in my estimation than just judgement with no real consideration for the things that create who we are.
As far as Lisa being lazy-in the days of Elvis-3 singles a year, and a couple soundtrack albums a year was the norm (and the soundtracks were mostly lackluster music with a few good songs), same for the other artists, Beatles had 2-3 singles a year and a couple albums that was the norm...in the 80s it became longer and longer for albums to be produced by artists-2-3 years and yes some artists as long as 4-5...singles became a lost art that has all but become non existent really...the albums are the big thing and artists today take forever to release new ones.....I agree to me its too long...to me it seems lazy....compared to 3 singles a year and 2 full albums...but that is the norm for 2012 so Lisa is not doing anything that most artists have been doing for years. Her career I agree has not been fully engaged...she has kids, she has personal things that have jumped into her path, Nicholas Cage, marital ups and downs, involvement with Gracelands activities etc......all things that have taken time from her full engagement toward her career.
Every star-every artist has had some mountains and molehills to climb that have been in their way-Sinatras personality got him into fights, issues with unsavory underworld characters, marital problems with many women........and actually losing his voice for a period in the 50s where he felt his career was over-yet the truth was he had a career that lasted several decades and he overcame all the obstacles and flaws to rise over and over
but he was written off as too unstable in his life, too unpredictable many many times etc.....Lisa is still in her careers infancy, she is still a very young person (comparitive to me anyway)and I am not ready to say she is done, she has been given her chance and blown it...because I truely believe she has some talent-(not like her father, not like Sinatra, not like Beatles but as good as many current acts) I do not just say that to take a position..... I hear it and read it in her lyrics.
But not everyone has to like her, not everyone has to agree.....my trying to understand these situations and people involved is, I hope, not seen as just being argumentative....it is just what I say it is trying to point out a level of understanding for all people and situations.
If I have my own pet person to gripe at it would be Col Parker....but I feel he is no different.... something made him who he was-I just do not really know what they may have been since he was such the Snowman.
Hopefully some of you have an understanding of who I am, and what made me....since I have been pretty much an open book since my first post here....... but perhaps not, regardless I try to be objective.
Work in Progress!
Yes, Elvis has many character flaws, and yes he did acted way lazy many times in his career, and he did payed the price the hard way, he almost ruined his career forever in the 60's and the same after '73. But yet, when he decided to work, he was one of the hardest working man on the music scene, let's say the '68 TV Special, yes, it was publicity, it was a staged event to get the public attention again, it was pretty much like this Carnegie Hall stuff, a big bunch of media bullshit to get respect, yet, behind all that Elvis worked his ***-out during that special, and you can tell that at the very first note he sang, big plus: he had all that musical learning from his first 7 years. Elvis shined when he wanted to shine becuase no matter if he was lazy for 5 years, there where other 8 years of extreme hard work before, and there other 5 years of hard work after. Lisa? yes is 40 years old and she's still an amateur with a big production behind to hide it. She's auntie glass of milk having a hobbie, with good ol' Simon providing a huge machinery to make her look nice.
Yes there where times Elvis didn't took challenges, and he was to much of a coward to look for them, but hey, really? You have never notice his devoted dedication to cultivate his voice though his whole career? The way he reinvented him self at least 4 times in 20 years. Yes there where times he acted as a mediocre ***** if you like, but not though allhis 40 years old my friend, Lisa is older that Elvis ever lived, and she still talks about discovering her voice? give me a freakin' breake. Sorry, but she has been a mediocre musician through 45 odd years. That is not disliking her as a person, it is just what it is.
In fact I do like her so much, and I do think she has some talent, but hey, in any art form, talent is only 25%, the rest is just hard work, she lacks that other 75% and not even T-Bone's magic and Simon's big fancy smoke curtains can make up for that. You can tell how akward and amateurish she looks on stage when she is no longer protected by the studio four walls, if she had 23 years old, but hey, she's going for the fifth floor. And that is sad, I really was excited by this album, I really had big hopes for this one, but she is repeating old mistakes. Believe me, she does Idol cause she can't handle a From the Basement full show.
I'll take Cat Power anytime, sure, you might not like her voice either, you can say she's less talented that Lisa, well I might even agree, but Cat is all about hard work and overcome shitty times, and that's the heart on her sound. Lisa is lazy, her music is a dam hobby to her, and that has anything to do with the spelling of her last name or her parents faults or Michaels impotence, or Cage being a weirdo who make her cry.
Well like you've stated before, she is too old for this to really work for her. Harsh but true, kids today do not want to see 40 something singers, especially female ones at that. Todays artist have a life span of about 5 years then drop off the radar or continue to produce more of the same stuff. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but even someone like Madonna doesn't have the same status she enjoyed back in the 80s or even the 90s. I cringe when I see her and I was a huge huge fan back in the 80s.
Unfortunately, Lisa has left it too late to seriously pursue this path and have an adequate level of success, but if she's happy with this, I won't knock her for it.
When this new album was about to be released it sounded good to me, and I had a lot of hope, but then again, she's not doing any serious touring, she's going for easy stuff as Idol instead of going for real challenges, and her live performance away from studio gimmicks, reveal that she hasn't improved her stage persona a bit since the last one, well how could she? in fact age make her look more ackwards instead of giving her the benefit of experience. SAD but to me this was her last chance, and is not working, and there is no last name to blame, only a serious lack of doing your homework.
This Carnegie Hall seems like nothing but a big publicity stunt to give her some serious musical credibility, I hope she at least mind to upgrade her stage persona a bit for it, but really? you can't do a life long work in 3 months, no matter who's your producer/managment. She's not up to it, the sad thing is: she does have talent, so what a waste.
Last edited by Raised on Rock; 09-26-2012 at 12:16 PM.
There is and old saying I have quoted many times
"No man (or woman) is an island"
But to go even further-even islands...isolated, unihabited are affected by things they have no control over....by the suns heat, by the tides power, by underground volcanic activity that may increase their size or sink them lock stock and palm tree........and not every island will react exactly precisely like another because they are not sitting in exactly the same location, because they have been blessed with more trees more vegetation or have more rock and craggy ground....IE sun, tides and volcanoes do not pose the problems that the other island ends up with.
Thats the same with people, "Unless you've walked in their shoes, seen thru their eyes......" according to Elvis.
But thats just my view trying to understand each unique situation for all these different people.
I agree Elvis worked his tail off but the sun, the tides, the volcanic action of life at times affected that process and changed his island...many he had little control over IE upbringing, wealth, parents, formative years that we have learned create 90% of the mental process that you use for the rest of your life.....that goes for us all.
Sorry we disagree on this.
Work in Progress!
She is not the only artist with a famous parent to wrestle with which direction her career should go nor with the shadow/depth of feeling for their famous parent.
Hank Williams Jr-his mother for years kept him mostly singing his fathers music, dressing like his dad and singing in his dads style-it took time for him to finally make the break and revolt against using his fathers music and developing his own style and writing his own songs...but he had the same conflict of mentality...hated the comparisons to his dad....but constantly writes songs that bring up his father....eventually after he was a success in his own right he made a video that blended old country show performance of his fathers song "Tear in My Beer" with new footage made to look old so they dueted. The need to prove ones self, against the need to love and acknowledge your roots (father) thats the way I see it for people such as this.
Williams Jr has really worked hard and hit a chord with country fans at the "Outlaw" phase of the 70s and has totally overcome any conflict it seems.
But his start in music was not a meteoric rise-he had to break out of the situation with his mother and then find his stride.
Whether Lisa can do this I admit is debateable.
Work in Progress!
A lot of hard work and dedication, with translates into musical quality, a strong stage persona and tons of passion. Exactly what Lisa does not have and his huge managment machine can't provide with this Carnegie Hall bull...
Now Lisa has only been at this for less time than Hank wasted as an imitation of his father-he did finally make that revolt, find his own image and write songs he wanted to record......despite a dismall start.
She may or may not have be able to find that image, voice and style to follow in Hank Jrs "Family Tradition" so to speak but she is still less years into her career than Hank Jr wasted. So time will tell my friend.
This thread has been a diversion for me-my mom is dying and I thank you for spirited debate that takes my thoughts off the reality of most of my days this last week.
Work in Progress!
Yet as I said, I hear you, and I had big expectations that she did finally got it with this album, but she's making old mistakes instead of movin' forward. AND IS GETTIN' LATE!!! Its gettin' late and she's not workin' hard enough to catch the train, instead she's lettin the publicity machine to supply for that, and that's a big mistake, that's my point. Is not a problem of mixing her voice right in a live setting, is a problem of her not really knowing what to do with her on stage. Is so amateurish.
I'm not a Lisa hate her, I do like her, but Hey! this adulation from the fans (Elvis fans, are there Lisa's fans on their own?), this free opening the doors of big halls and all, it is Carless love again, if you know what I mean.
Its all and always friendly debate man, never take it in other way. Sorry to hear about your mom, all my best wishes for you both. I know how its like, my prayers are with you.
Last edited by Raised on Rock; 09-27-2012 at 12:23 AM.
Still Raised on rock has a point that Lisa isn't working on improving as a singer or a performer.
Lisa's label may very well be displeased with the sales of Storm & Grace and that could put a stop to any plans she has for putting out another record.
I think Lisa will get to put out one more record then it will bomb and it'll be the last one she ever makes.