Elvis' childhood friend Sam Bell who grew up with him in Tupelo

[vivaelvis]

Thank you for recalling those names-indeed thats who this debate reminds me of. I can almost recall the same type threads with the exception of the name Apollo-replace it with CKX/Sillerman.

And no, I am NOT that person nor have you and I debated this topic prior to my existence on this forum which began back in 2010. I wasn't here during the Sillerman takeover. Just because someone doe not see your views does not give you or anyone else the right to accuse them of being someone else.

[KPM]

And no, I am NOT that person nor have you and I debated this topic prior to my existence on this forum which began back in 2010. I wasn't here during the Sillerman takeover. Just because someone doe not see your views does not give you or anyone else the right to accuse them of being someone else.

I beg to differ....I did not accuse you of anything-I asked you a legit question about whether or not you had posted under another name in the past, or if you had changed your posting name and I had missed the change( it happend)......why so defensive?
It is not because you do not see my views that spurred me to ask this question, it was the topics you seem passionate about and your take on them.
race, Elvis gaining black respect, trying to grab their attention
new directions and redevelopement by Apollo (or in the past CKX)
the idea that if huge changes are not made Elvis will somehow be forgotten.....................
Exactly the points that were of primary concern to the names mentioned
They supposedly lived in Memphis
These individuals (or individual) also had "an unnamed insider" who was affiliated in someway with the Memphis board and their information was attributed to this person.
These individuals were familiar to others here from other forums (not to me but others as I do not post on other Elvis forums-occasionally on Topix)

Now can you see a similarity with you- that would remind some here of these other individuals?
I could not recall those individuals names nor how they left here, but someone did see very real similarity.-so its just not me.
You can agree or disagree with me on whatever subject does not matter to me who you are-you have a right to your opinions and so does everyone....but when anyone makes a definitive comment-IE a comment that supposedly is rock solid in fact.... you should not get upset if sourcing is asked for. As you asked me about the negative MJ comments about Elvis-you mentioned you had never heard of this and asked where that came from, you then mentioned he married Lisa, he was at the celebration in 94, he visited Graceland, he always spoke well of Elvis etc........if you saw my reply I finally found a partial transcript of those comments and when they were spoken, what the occasion was......I understood you had never heard this and you wanted proof of what I posted-I gave it to you....... no problem on my end that you asked.
IMO too many things on the Internet in general are posted which have no basis in fact-but are opinion and wishful thinking. So I see nothing wrong in anyone wanting proof of something said or posted-seems fair for everyone.
The Internet is a great thing, but it also is used to misinform, scam, and create havoc for honest people.
You mentioned in another post-lets agree to disagree and that does not make you wrong and someone else right-on subjective speculative questions that is true, but many questions are not subjective-on those type questions there is a side which is right and a side which is wrong.
It makes no difference who is asking any type question-if I see a discrepancy I question it, it I agree I agree-If I am skeptical I ask for a source and I fully expect to have the same thing done to me-fair for all.

[vivaelvis]

I beg to differ....I did not accuse you of anything-I asked you a legit question about whether or not you had posted under another name in the past, or if you had changed your posting name and I had missed the change( it happend)......why so defensive?
It is not because you do not see my views that spurred me to ask this question, it was the topics you seem passionate about and your take on them.
race, Elvis gaining black respect, trying to grab their attention
new directions and redevelopement by Apollo (or in the past CKX)
the idea that if huge changes are not made Elvis will somehow be forgotten.....................
Exactly the points that were of primary concern to the names mentioned
They supposedly lived in Memphis
These individuals (or individual) also had "an unnamed insider" who was affiliated in someway with the Memphis board and their information was attributed to this person.
These individuals were familiar to others here from other forums (not to me but others as I do not post on other Elvis forums-occasionally on Topix)

Now can you see a similarity with you- that would remind some here of these other individuals?
I could not recall those individuals names nor how they left here, but someone did see very real similarity.-so its just not me.
You can agree or disagree with me on whatever subject does not matter to me who you are-you have a right to your opinions and so does everyone....but when anyone makes a definitive comment-IE a comment that supposedly is rock solid in fact.... you should not get upset if sourcing is asked for. As you asked me about the negative MJ comments about Elvis-you mentioned you had never heard of this and asked where that came from, you then mentioned he married Lisa, he was at the celebration in 94, he visited Graceland, he always spoke well of Elvis etc........if you saw my reply I finally found a partial transcript of those comments and when they were spoken, what the occasion was......I understood you had never heard this and you wanted proof of what I posted-I gave it to you....... no problem on my end that you asked.
IMO too many things on the Internet in general are posted which have no basis in fact-but are opinion and wishful thinking. So I see nothing wrong in anyone wanting proof of something said or posted-seems fair for everyone.
The Internet is a great thing, but it also is used to misinform, scam, and create havoc for honest people.
You mentioned in another post-lets agree to disagree and that does not make you wrong and someone else right-on subjective speculative questions that is true, but many questions are not subjective-on those type questions there is a side which is right and a side which is wrong.
It makes no difference who is asking any type question-if I see a discrepancy I question it, it I agree I agree-If I am skeptical I ask for a source and I fully expect to have the same thing done to me-fair for all.

OK, first of all, I am NOT obsessed nor just interested in those categories and subjects that you mentioned. I am however more concerned with the image being promoted more than the man. Every true Elvis fan should be imo. I only care about what blacks think simply because they are a large percentage of the US population now and are having a big say in how our society is being driven these days. Same goes with the Hispanics.

I couldn't care less what others from the past might have said or thought or what their likes were. There are over 1 million people living in Memphis. It's not some hick town with about 50. Just because someone from the past was from there or even might have known someone connected to the council does not make them me or me them. That's preposterous to even think that. You have made that a big deal since I have been here. Now I know why you question everyone of my posts. For all we know they could have been lying the whole time. I don't know as I wasn't here back then. So I can't say for sure. I knew some people in Memphis who were and still are big Elvis fans. Some care more about Graceland and the impact it has on their city than they ever have the man and his music. Others couldn't care less about Elvis. That's just the way it is there.

And no, I cannot see a similarity in my posts and others. I post what I know and what I am told. If you chose to not believe it that's your choice to make. I'm not going to come here, waste my time, and debate something I know as fact or truth to some who are going to believe what they want anyhow.

[KPM]

Nowhere in that transcription did Michael say that Elvis himself ripped off blacks. He said that Otis didn't get a book written on him for his great work. Plus, that was when MJ was facing pressure form thge black community that he didn't care nor considered himself black. After he died, artifacts removed from Michael's house revealed a photo on his bedroom wall of Elvis and one with him and Elvis together in a depiction of The Last Supper.

Funny though that a man who was born black, but then bleached his skin to look white to fit in with a whiter society, all of a sudden wanted to cry "I'm black and I'm proud".

As for what would I have done to better his image among blacks? For starters, I would have promoted him into the black community just as they did the white community. I would have done special cultural exhibits showcasing his black musical influence and how he admired so many black musicians and how they admired him in return. I would have done a special Elvis & Black History Month celebration for African Americans. I would have maybe opened Graceland for a day during Black History month to locals for free to those who don't have the money to see it to allow them that opportunity.

Those little things could have gone a very long way in bringing respect to Elvis from the black community.

This was a partial transcript of "Selected items" not the full speech by MJ nor other speakers. I was made aware of this event and MJs comments on TOPIX by a very ravid MJ fan who posted the speech in full and a link to a video of the event....this fan felt it showed MJ thought Elvis stole his music, songs and style. I will continue to look for the full video of this event.
But the implication was there even in the "selected items of the speech" .......... The Mention Elvis, they mention the Stone......something wrong with the system....Blackwell died penniless after penning All Shook Up and Dont Be Cruel etc.....
You mention a couple things on how to promote Elvis to the Black Community-one very broad "you would promote him like he was promoted to the white communtity???"
I think your ideas about Black History month have merit but I doubt you would see a huge changes-if you listen to rap, or hiphop Elvis is just not relevant. They will never be potential Elvis music buyers-the gap is to great. Country fans, yes huge potential in getting them to buy Elvis, pop fans great potential, Middle of the Road-great potention. Not Rap fans, sorry but very little potential.
I'm sure you are aware of Demographics-more or less a study of who buys your products and why-its by age, race, color gender, etc....
EPE is very aware of the Demographics of their visitors and people who buy their product-they have people who keep and research those stats-and I can tell you that every business does want to attract people who are not in the top Demographics for their products (does not matter if it is soap, burgers, soda, beer, or Elvis)but they geer their products advertisements and goals to the top Demographic numbers. They will have broad campaigns not individual campaigns for each group by age gender or color.
Actually the top growing part of US population is espanic from figures I have seen-but I do not think we will see a huge campaign aimed at Mexicans.

Coke might, Pepsi might, McDonalds might-huge multi billion dollar companies with advertising budgets to match who spend hundreds of millions on ads of all kinds...companies which buy Superbowl time-they have mini campaigns among their broad ads-but they have the money.

[vivaelvis]

This was a partial transcript of "Selected items" not the full speech by MJ nor other speakers. I was made aware of this event and MJs comments on TOPIX by a very ravid MJ fan who posted the speech in full and a link to a video of the event....this fan felt it showed MJ thought Elvis stole his music, songs and style. I will continue to look for the full video of this event.
But the implication was there even in the "selected items of the speech" .......... The Mention Elvis, they mention the Stone......something wrong with the system....Blackwell died penniless after penning All Shook Up and Dont Be Cruel etc.....
You mention a couple things on how to promote Elvis to the Black Community-one very broad "you would promote him like he was promoted to the white communtity???"
I think your ideas about Black History month have merit but I doubt you would see a huge changes-if you listen to rap, or hiphop Elvis is just not relevant. They will never be potential Elvis music buyers-the gap is to great. Country fans, yes huge potential in getting them to buy Elvis, pop fans great potential, Middle of the Road-great potention. Not Rap fans, sorry but very little potential.
I'm sure you are aware of Demographics-more or less a study of who buys your products and why-its by age, race, color gender, etc....
EPE is very aware of the Demographics of their visitors and people who buy their product-they have people who keep and research those stats-and I can tell you that every business does want to attract people who are not in the top Demographics for their products (does not matter if it is soap, burgers, soda, beer, or Elvis)but they geer their products advertisements and goals to the top Demographic numbers. They will have broad campaigns not individual campaigns for each group by age gender or color.
Actually the top growing part of US population is espanic from figures I have seen-but I do not think we will see a huge campaign aimed at Mexicans.

Coke might, Pepsi might, McDonalds might-huge multi billion dollar companies with advertising budgets to match who spend hundreds of millions on ads of all kinds...companies which buy Superbowl time-they have mini campaigns among their broad ads-but they have the money.

I am starting to think you work for EPE. Why else would you be their prtection blanket on every subject whether it's relevant or off topic?

And for the record, rap music is a international musical genre the way rock, country and gospel is. It's not just for blacks. That is stereotypical to even consider and so far from the truth. More white kids today listen and buy rap music than do black kids. That's a fact! But not all black rappers dislike Elvis too. 50 Cent, Three-Six Mafia, Yo Gotti, Kia Shine, Pit Bull, Snoop Dog, Jay Z, etc have all at one time or another spoken respectfully towards him. Jay Z even sampled Girls! Girls! Girls!.

Let's please stop making every post about Sillerman, EPE, or race and religion. Let's try and stay on topic for once. Which this topic was about a man who grew up with Elvis in Tupelo who happened to be African American.

[KPM]

OK, first of all, I am NOT obsessed nor just interested in those categories and subjects that you mentioned. I am however more concerned with the image being promoted more than the man. Every true Elvis fan should be imo. I only care about what blacks think simply because they are a large percentage of the US population now and are having a big say in how our society is being driven these days. Same goes with the Hispanics.

I couldn't care less what others from the past might have said or thought or what their likes were. There are over 1 million people living in Memphis. It's not some hick town with about 50. Just because someone from the past was from there or even might have known someone connected to the council does not make them me or me them. That's preposterous to even think that. You have made that a big deal since I have been here. Now I know why you question everyone of my posts. For all we know they could have been lying the whole time. I don't know as I wasn't here back then. So I can't say for sure. I knew some people in Memphis who were and still are big Elvis fans. Some care more about Graceland and the impact it has on their city than they ever have the man and his music. Others couldn't care less about Elvis. That's just the way it is there.

And no, I cannot see a similarity in my posts and others. I post what I know and what I am told. If you chose to not believe it that's your choice to make. I'm not going to come here, waste my time, and debate something I know as fact or truth to some who are going to believe what they want anyhow.

Well since you say you were not here when all the similar threads and posts were made-how could you know how similar yours are to those back then? I was here, so were others and friend there are similarities.
I do not post anything because of past posts-I post on the merits of the subject of the threads posts and views.
I do not for example think that if huge plans are not carried out-that Elvis Presleys talent will suddenly not attract fans, and when someone makes a case in which the opposite is their view-I will challenge that-not personal, not remembering similar posts by similar writers-I will challenge that view based on the premise of the view.
Elvis should have died out in 1957, flash in the pan. according to many views back then, I would have challenged them then, his career should have been over in 58 when he went into the Army-the films should have ended his career, the Beatles should have ended his career, when he died it should have been over.........Charisma and talent live forever gaining fans not like a rabbitt in a race but like a tortoise which continues forward and lasts much longer. Ebbs and flos do not mean the end it is the natural way of things.
The person makes no difference to me-its the premise of their post and views.
Fact or truth which is proved I have no problem with, speculation which is unsourced I will question. Not sure why that bothers you?
I will ask you did you read my explaination of "hearsay"? When you quote a second or third party it is "hearsay" that means it will not prove a fact, it will not prove something as true.
I bring this back up because if you do not understand that concept what you consider a fact or truth is just unproven rumor.
Having some fun now huh kids!!!

[buttonhead]

No..Ken is not working for EPE,...more like for FBI .. So Sorry guys, I cant help but saying it .

[KPM]

I am starting to think you work for EPE. Why else would you be their prtection blanket on every subject whether it's relevant or off topic?

And for the record, rap music is a international musical genre the way rock, country and gospel is. It's not just for blacks. That is stereotypical to even consider and so far from the truth. More white kids today listen and buy rap music than do black kids. That's a fact! But not all black rappers dislike Elvis too. 50 Cent, Three-Six Mafia, Yo Gotti, Kia Shine, Pit Bull, Snoop Dog, Jay Z, etc have all at one time or another spoken respectfully towards him. Jay Z even sampled Girls! Girls! Girls!.

Let's please stop making every post about Sillerman, EPE, or race and religion. Let's try and stay on topic for once. Which this topic was about a man who grew up with Elvis in Tupelo who happened to be African American.

Ha ha I work for EPE its very funny.
I am not a protection blanket for them-I point out they have done well with what they were left with and for their primary will stated objective, they were not given much leeway as to their goal-the goal in the will was not to protect the man, not to protect his image-it was to make money for his child-that was the bottom line. When all he negatives are said about EPE-I think it should be reminded that their goals were prescribed by Elvis-so we may not like how they have done their job-but it started with the sitution left by Elvis and his will. I try to point out the other side. Thats fair (and for the record-and I have said this many times in many threads-I do not approve of all they do)
As far as my comments on rap-I agree its not just for blacks-I even mentioned that in one of my posts-rap is listened to by all colors and creeds but it does not negate the fact that if you listen to rap-it is a huge longshot to think you will ever like listen to or be a fan of Elvis. I know African Americans who listen to rap, and white kids does not matter-they don't like Elvis actually do not like much other than rap.
When I hear the boom boom boom of a subwoofer going down the street-the car is driven by all types people, the singular connecting thread is they like rap....and they are highly unlikely to suddenly pick up a copy of Elvis 30 #1s and change .

[KPM]

No..Ken is not working for EPE,...more like for FBI .. So Sorry guys, I cant help but saying it .

Listen don't blow my cover-it is of a legal nature.

[buttonhead]

IMO too many things on the Internet in general are posted which have no basis in fact-but are opinion and wishful thinking. So I see nothing wrong in anyone wanting proof of something said or posted-seems fair for everyone.
The Internet is a great thing, but it also is used to misinform, scam, and create havoc for honest people.

Yes,KPM I agree with this statement, so I am glad to often finds many insight information from you , thats why I axed away about Elvis eye color and glaucoma problems.. for some reasons too many Elvis fans, .. ate up some hoax stories of our man Elvis, which makes me cringe even felt sad that ...that is what they believe. Internet does provide lots of priveledge for people to search...googled and learned but Why does people kept coming back to the one full with nonsense ?

I am sorry I said this bluntly, but is the truth, I was quite in shock to read some of facebook Elvis fans who still believed Elvis fake his death...its been 35 years ?? if he did, Elvis would have gotten sued by making this Public Lie, ... also there are A LOT of Elvis cropped / photoshops pictures out there, and there are fans who believed that it was Elvis ... truth is it dont looked legit... but they insisted it was real... If its for their own creativity and fun, PLEASE do it... But dont make the unreal story out of it..

I feel like I was in the Twilight of Elvis World Zone ...

its about time for Elvis fans to share whats the truth and what not. I am not here to attack any one or any thing, I just want to point out of how true what Ken had said above.

TCB all .

[buttonhead]

Listen don't blow my cover-it is of a legal nature.

When you analyze Elvis facts... Its a lot like a detective.. which is a good thing.

[rocknroll]

This argument isn't just similar, it is also almost exact - word for word. It is also as tiring as the remix and Graceland renovation arguments that our friend from a few years ago was completely obsessed with.

[vivaelvis]

This argument isn't just similar, it is also almost exact - word for word. It is also as tiring as the remix and Graceland renovation arguments that our friend from a few years ago was completely obsessed with.

As I have said, I am not obsessed with anything nor was I around back then. So stop trying to make me out to be some kind of villian. That's exactly why I no longer post on the other forums.

[rocknroll]

As I have said, I am not obsessed with anything nor was I around back then. So stop trying to make me out to be some kind of villian. That's exactly why I no longer post on the other forums.

Reread my post. I said "our friend from a few years ago" was obsessed. Since you allegedly are not him I must not have been referring to you.....correct?

[KPM]

I just read some comments by Harry Belafonte in his autobiography, he claimed that when Elvis was recording his first album in New York he was also recording an album in a nearby studio. His producer began to hear some fuzzy type noise on the playbacks for his album, so when the producer investigated he found out that Elvis and his musicians were playing so loudly that the studios soundproofing was just not made for rock recording and his sessions were bleeding into the background of Belafontes recording. They sent word for Elvis's sessions to be rescheduled around Belafontes-the reply was supposedly from Col. Parker who said no and threatened to ruin Belafonte??
Belafonte said he finally met Elvis briefly in Vegas ........when Elvis and Ann Margret came to the hotel Belafonte was working.
He claimed Elvis called him Mr. Belafonte and was very pleasant-but he had the feeling that it was all country boy slickness-and he conditioned his statement by saying Rock had knocked Calypso out of the box and his feelings may have had something to do with that situation.
Later Belafonte said he talked with black musicians who told him Elvis had from the start hung out with blacks and black musicians so Belafonte felt that Elvis came by his style legitimately.
Now I doubt very many people of a certain age will really care in 2012 what Belafonte thinks-but it was nice to find he had some positive things to say.

[King Of The Whole World]

I just read some comments by Harry Belafonte in his autobiography, he claimed that when Elvis was recording his first album in New York he was also recording an album in a nearby studio. His producer began to hear some fuzzy type noise on the playbacks for his album, so when the producer investigated he found out that Elvis and his musicians were playing so loudly that the studios soundproofing was just not made for rock recording and his sessions were bleeding into the background of Belafontes recording. They sent word for Elvis's sessions to be rescheduled around Belafontes-the reply was supposedly from Col. Parker who said no and threatened to ruin Belafonte??
Belafonte said he finally met Elvis briefly in Vegas ........when Elvis and Ann Margret came to the hotel Belafonte was working.
He claimed Elvis called him Mr. Belafonte and was very pleasant-but he had the feeling that it was all country boy slickness-and he conditioned his statement by saying Rock had knocked Calypso out of the box and his feelings may have had something to do with that situation.
Later Belafonte said he talked with black musicians who told him Elvis had from the start hung out with blacks and black musicians so Belafonte felt that Elvis came by his style legitimately.
Now I doubt very many people of a certain age will really care in 2012 what Belafonte thinks-but it was nice to find he had some positive things to say.

Never heard that story, very cool. Elvis always won his critics over once he had a chance to show them what a down to earth guy he was.

[Raised on Rock]

Have you ever noticed that the black cultural influence is hardly ever a part of the Elvis story? Never do you hear of how it all became. That's why blacks in general think he was a racist.

It is because the black cultural influence has always been a HUGE part of Elvis story, that the "racist" issue came in, actually.

[Raised on Rock]

Never heard that story, very cool. Elvis always won his critics over once he had a chance to show them what a down to earth guy he was.

Neither do I, where did you get it Ken?

Those N.Y. sessions where indeed loud, you can notice the saturation in the mix. And it sure sounds great!

Sam Bell, great story isn't it?

About that lie of Elvis being a racist... that rather had much more to do with complex sociological issues in the U.S. ( http://www.tcb-world.com/threads/143...ralnick+racist ) rather than with EPE missmanagments. EPE had stated it was not true many times by providing facts, what else they can do? Discounts on tickets for black people? that's ridiculous, not to say actually insulting and errr... racist.

To me the black music/culture influence in Elvis has never been hidden, in fact has always been a big part of the whole Elvis narrative, in fact essential to it.

Now if some people get that as "stealing", rather than "legitimate", that will always had to do with "unreasonable" vs. "reasonable" as you well said Ken, as the facts have always been in the table for all so... the only thing EPE can and should do is to keep those facts on the table, and well, that´s what they are doing with this video among some others in this legacy stuff they added to the webpage so...

[KPM]

Neither do I, where did you get it Ken?

Those N.Y. sessions where indeed loud, you can notice the saturation in the mix. And it sure sounds great!

Sam Bell, great story isn't it?

About that lie of Elvis being a racist... that rather had much more to do with complex sociological issues in the U.S. ( http://www.tcb-world.com/threads/143...ralnick+racist ) rather than with EPE missmanagments. EPE had stated it was not true many times by providing facts, what else they can do? Discounts on tickets for black people? that's ridiculous, not to say actually insulting and errr... racist.

To me the black music/culture influence in Elvis has never been hidden, in fact has always been a big part of the whole Elvis narrative, in fact essential to it.

Now if some people get that as "stealing", rather than "legitimate", that will always had to do with "unreasonable" vs. "reasonable" as you well said Ken, as the facts have always been in the table for all so... the only thing EPE can and should do is to keep those facts on the table, and well, that´s what they are doing with this video among some others in this legacy stuff they added to the webpage so...

Belafontes Autobiography "MY SONG" interesting read.

[Raised on Rock]

Belafontes Autobiography "MY SONG" interesting read.

I'm sure it is! Thanks for sharing that one... Have a great week!