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Thread: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

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    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    Hey everybody!

    Late period Elvis has been a subject which has been widely discussed and it will be discussed to full extent in the future, there's no doubt.

    Opinions may vary - whereas my hope is that some may see something positive in every stage of Elvis' life of career. For some reason the method to handle Elvis' (late period) image and artistic performance is simply to hide it - the general public knows something about the Aloha special (and something in the way he moved) and after that it was downhill immediately.. or is it?

    My questions to you Elvis-fans are:

    1. do you think it's right to simply hide away Elvis' later years from the public?
    2. what do you think Elvis had to offer during the period after the Aloha special?

    It may be true that Elvis did have something special to offer, but the crowd may not notice it (yet). Remember Schwarzenegger's view on business: you can have the best product in the world, the best philosophy, the best idea but if you can't communicate it to the people you don't have anything. And this is why it is so important to do the publicity, to do the marketing, the communicating and put the spotlight on the issue so that people know about it and I think that we have done a great job this time right here.

    It's something I too have had to find out on my own - the better the artist, the harder he needs to work to run his promotion and business properly (as these two trades oppose each other). There's running business as in taking advantage of people without conscience (you eat fast food, spend money, get sick, you die) or there's a way to bring your product closer to the public, by making it recognizable or more accessible.
    If it would be possible to promote Elvis' later years, no one gets sick - so there's no need to worry about complicating human beings or the environment. The last question would be:

    3. How would you communicate the quality late period Elvis had to offer to the public?

    I'm open for business and open for debate - in some respect late period Elvis was mister Olympia too.
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    TCB Mafia debtdbruno's Avatar
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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    The way I see it, is as EPE owns the rights to his name and Image, they protect that Image...........

    There's no getting away from it, Elvis did not look good the last couple of years or so. We as his fans talk about how he looked and sounded........but with the respect and love he deserves. Unfortunately the general public are not that kind..........
    Most people I speak to, the first thing they say is........'Oh yes,.....but didn't he get fat?'.......they cannot see beyond what the media pushed at them.

    I don't know how they could ever release EIC without the backlash that will definitely go with it..........sure, he sounded for the most part okay........but that would be forgotten because 'the Image' will pop up again, and again.

    As the ultimate sex symbol he wasn't allowed to be human like the rest of us and get overweight..........totally unnatural of course, but people are cruel........
    "NO-ONE, BUT NO-ONE,IS HIS EQUAL, OR EVER WILL BE. HE WAS, AND IS SUPREME".Mick Jagger

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    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    I think if you are speaking of "voice" then there is much to find in the period after 1973. Elvis had a voice that was growing and expanding until the day he died.
    But if you are speaking of his overall look and performances I think its harder to point to the positive.
    In 1974-75 his performances and weight fluctuated with ups and downs.
    From 1976 till he died its harder to find healthy energetic sustained examples of his performances-and even his voice seemed labored occasionally.
    I would mainly stress his expanding voice in the last few years of his life-as a positive that he still could use when he wanted-the problem is the fire to totally use it in a sustained fashion seemed to be lacking.
    As far as "hiding the image" of his last years and stressing his greatness in other eras of his career-everyone seems to recall it..... fans, casual fans, and the rest of the world.
    So maybe EPE sees no reason to stress those last few years-the world outside of EPE stresses it enough-and that seems sufficient to remind people of those last years.
    When you go to a funeral the great things someone did are recalled, the kindness, the ability, the talent-rarely do people bring up the worst periods of this persons life because those who love that person want to recall the happiness and blessings he/she contributed.
    The down side and the negatives find their way out without much prompting outside that persons intimate world-and in Elvis's case the intimate world-was in fact the literal world.
    Work in Progress!

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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    The down side and the negatives find their way out without much prompting outside that persons intimate world-and in Elvis's case the intimate world-was in fact the literal world.
    Thats a great way to sum it up.

    Personally, I am all for EPE keeping the last few years out of the public eye, including any possible release of EIC. IMO joe public dont need to see this, the focus should be on Elvis in his prime. However, those who become more serious fans, EIC is widely avaliable on youtube or bootlegs etc. For those who wish to see it, it is there. Same for those who wish to find out more about Elvis in the last few years, the info is there for those interested. For anyone whos not, let them enjoy the image EPE promote.

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    TCB Mafia debtdbruno's Avatar
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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    Quote Originally Posted by italianfan View Post
    Thats a great way to sum it up.

    Personally, I am all for EPE keeping the last few years out of the public eye, including any possible release of EIC. IMO joe public dont need to see this, the focus should be on Elvis in his prime. However, those who become more serious fans, EIC is widely avaliable on youtube or bootlegs etc. For those who wish to see it, it is there. Same for those who wish to find out more about Elvis in the last few years, the info is there for those interested. For anyone whos not, let them enjoy the image EPE promote.

    I agree with you there
    "NO-ONE, BUT NO-ONE,IS HIS EQUAL, OR EVER WILL BE. HE WAS, AND IS SUPREME".Mick Jagger

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    Mad Tigers slystallone1946's Avatar
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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    Really, let's promote Elvis the whole package. Elvis knew that his weight was a problem, but he still went on stage. Elvis had a lot to offer in his last years, show the public what Elvis was really like and not just an image.

  7. #7

    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    Unfortunately there's just not much positive spin that can come out of the 76-77 period. Even when he lost weight in 76 he still sounded uninspired. His performances became more of a job than an enjoyment. There's a saying in the music world, if you start to feel like it's a job for money then you've lost the passion. And that seems to have been the case for Elvis. He should have never been onstage after 75.

    Truth be told, Elvis lost interest after the Aloha special which is why his music began to slide off the charts. His marriage coming to an end played a big part in that as it effected the material he would record thereafter. His health was a major part to his decline as well. Elvis got fat simply because of health problems. Not eating fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches as the public seems to believe. He had an enlarged colon, twice it's normal size which caused severe constipation, a bad liver and other health issues. Some uneducated people seem to think that Elvis was some type of crackhead because of the drug use.The drugs he took weren't street drugs. They were prescribed by his physician. And that needs to be addressed mroe often. Although he did take advantage of them to get more. That was where the addiction came in and played a big part in his demise.

    I do think though that with the way Michael Jackson died and knowing now that he did have a drug addiction very similar to Elvis' that the public won't be ale to cast stones at Elvis anymore because of it without doing the same to Jackson.

  8. #8

    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    Quote Originally Posted by slystallone1946 View Post
    Really, let's promote Elvis the whole package. Elvis knew that his weight was a problem, but he still went on stage. Elvis had a lot to offer in his last years, show the public what Elvis was really like and not just an image.
    I disagree. Elvis did those tours in 76-77 because the Colonel made him do them and because he needed the money as he spent it as soon as he made it. Elvis never really had a true accountant or advicer on how to monitor his finances.

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    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    you're not sending me to the coolah! (=cooler)

    Quote Originally Posted by slystallone1946 View Post
    Really, let's promote Elvis the whole package. Elvis knew that his weight was a problem, but he still went on stage. Elvis had a lot to offer in his last years, show the public what Elvis was really like and not just an image.
    First time I see a post from RI around here!

    That's the way I look at it too - too many of you here give up hope too easily. Michael Jackson (as had been suggested), Johnny Cash and Elvis all didn't look too healthy nearing their end and only Elvis isn't being marketed as such..

    ..to claim Elvis never should have performed from '75 onwards sounds baloney to me. When he managed to pull it of he delivered a good show these last three years; an entertaining show with the appropriate highlights.

    I could go without the teddycruel-medley from Omaha; there are decent performances from both shows. With a new song selection, some editing in the sound balance, adjusting the color of Elvis' face appropriately and cutting out Elvis' most embarrassing speech problems.. a quality product could be made!

    My opinion is that if you hide away Elvis' later years, the image of him will even grow more obese in their minds as the made-up stories in magazines and books are not hidden!
    Elvis had a weight problem, but was not obese (some of it accentuated by bloating in the face, caused by medication - this is water, not fat)..

    Also Elvis' later years could live on without the kitsch-association if his studio recordings were released without the overdubs, so the product that came out would match up with whatever Elvis wanted to achieve, not what some third party wanted him to sound like. The today and jungle room sessions wouldn't satisfy fans of the Who or Jimi Hendrix, but it is certainly more authentic than it's believed to be.

    And what makes it hard to understand.. is that Elvis had personal issues these last few years and he was perhaps even more shy, clumsy and insecure privately.. other than that, though not always predictable or constant, he could still be the singer who didn't flinch, who didn't waver and who did not BACK DOWN!! (muscular speech)
    Last edited by EnigmaticSun; 03-05-2010 at 06:28 AM. Reason: how to szpell..
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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    Lets look at it this way-many complain that all Elvis is viewed as by the majority of the last few generations is an over weight, white suited, drugged, over the hill singer.............................I know we have had thread after thread where many hate that "image"...........................that image has been crafted in the minds of many over the last 30 years with virtually no help from EPE-it has been formed by the press, newer rock critics and non fans worldwide................they do not care that his voice expanded, and that he could give a decent show even when he wanted to after 74 (although those shows still were no where near the dynamic powerhouse vocal and physical shows of 69-72) I really think that if EPE decided to promote the 77 special, commercials on TV/radio with the flair of the Elvis Lives promotion-you would not see the image of the 1975-77 Elvis go up in estimation-nor would it help the overall image of Elvis Presley in general-it would reinforce the image of the over weight, white suited, drugged over the hill singer IMO
    The funny thing is the voice would be the last thing most would notice-critics, press, non fans. So I think if people want the special we all know you can find it, if you want examples of Elvis's expanding voice you can find it the only part of the 75-77 career that EPE has much sayso over is the 77 Special and they have used limited footage of it to highlight his voice.
    I agree the voice was getting better into this period-but getting people to notice it is the hard part without bringing up the downsides which already are public fodder and have been since Elvis died.
    Work in Progress!

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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    Of course there was great material after Aloha and it should not be ignored.
    To think releasing EIC would ruin Elvis' image in the wider community is crazy. Edit it properly and highlight his strong performances and it would do nothing to harm his stature.
    And to think that it would get widespread media attention is over-stating the importance in which the media sees elvis.

  12. #12

    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    EPE has an image to establish like it or not and it's not about to change. 'Elvis In Concert' will not be released commercially on dvd or blu-ray format in our lifetime. Plain and simple.

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    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    Quote Originally Posted by vivaelvis View Post
    EPE has an image to establish like it or not and it's not about to change. 'Elvis In Concert' will not be released commercially on dvd or blu-ray format in our lifetime. Plain and simple.
    The way I look at it, they thrive off the negative image of Elvis' later presence and work. Perhaps it grants the later years a soap-opera kind of exaggerated tragic feeling to it. There's also a subtly hidden aggression lying underneath your post.

    Rickb has summed up what I feel too; now they see him as a person with health problems who didn't perform right and at least they could see him as someone with health problems who had a great voice - even better than in 1970 - on the big ballads or anything with delicate notes.
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    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    [QUOTE=EnigmaticSun;365788]The way I look at it, they thrive off the negative image of Elvis' later presence and work. Perhaps it grants the later years a soap-opera kind of exaggerated tragic feeling to it. There's also a subtly hidden aggression lying underneath your post.

    Rickb has summed up what I feel too; now they see him as a person with health problems who didn't perform right and at least they could see him as someone with health problems who had a great voice - even better than in 1970 - on the big ballads or anything with delicate notes.[/QUOTE]
    If the release of TTWII SE, 68 Special with all the extra footage, and the deluxe Aloha have not changed peoples minds about the talent and vocal abilities of Elvis-I just can not see how EIC can do so.
    Most people with the negative attitude "white jumpsuited, heavy drugged" did not buy the great specials and movies-they are not going to buy EIC IMO.
    Work in Progress!

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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    [QUOTE=EnigmaticSun;365788]The way I look at it, they thrive off the negative image of Elvis' later presence and work. Perhaps it grants the later years a soap-opera kind of exaggerated tragic feeling to it. There's also a subtly hidden aggression lying underneath your post.

    Rickb has summed up what I feel too; now they see him as a person with health problems who didn't perform right and at least they could see him as someone with health problems who had a great voice - even better than in 1970 - on the big ballads or anything with delicate notes.[/QUOTE]


    I'm sorry, but I disagree with that. I think his vocals were deeper, but I don't think he had the same control, and at times it was a bit 'nasely'.
    "NO-ONE, BUT NO-ONE,IS HIS EQUAL, OR EVER WILL BE. HE WAS, AND IS SUPREME".Mick Jagger

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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    Elvis is like the Bible, you just can not pick this or that to fit your needs. It is all or nothing.

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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    Quote Originally Posted by slystallone1946 View Post
    Elvis is like the Bible, you just can not pick this or that to fit your needs. It is all or nothing.
    I very much like that, Elvis is like the Bible..to us to others...for some he is like god...they heard of him but they never saw him..so they speculate...and like a religion ...he is a point of discordance.....everyone think he's got the right point of view the best explanation..but the reality to me is that...just like all the god's....if we see...then we'll know..so don't hide Elvis he was chubby at the end so what...no body was there for the belly..they we're there for the voice...the main problem is the poor management...the poor direction they gave Elvis...you know apart Elvis, Joe Esposito was not in the business before, so he learned over elvis...with the mistakes of a bigginner....the colonel was getting old..with an old fashion way of doin' things...and the poor elvis had confidence in them all....so from that what's left....the voice..that is the main product to sell for the later years.....and beside being bored some nights...for songs like dont be cruel...and all the others vintage...he was doing them for the last 20 years.....eat rice krispies every morning......guess what...you'll be bored after a while...no?

    If he had an artistic management instead of cash flow management wow...he would have been better than he was...and for us he was the best...so imagine.....no one can tell...that after Aloha....the voice was going down...the voice was stronger...more powerfull....and the range of songs and musics he can do was almost like they say in french....INFINIE.....with no limits....so I guess Elvis with good and appropriate management...they would have a different product to sell.....but that's no big deal for us the real fans...as I have said before we do have an inconditionnal love for our King...

    thanks for reading me
    There has been 44 united states présidents...but only one King....

  18. #18
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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    [QUOTE=KPM;365822]
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    The way I look at it, they thrive off the negative image of Elvis' later presence and work. Perhaps it grants the later years a soap-opera kind of exaggerated tragic feeling to it. There's also a subtly hidden aggression lying underneath your post.

    Rickb has summed up what I feel too; now they see him as a person with health problems who didn't perform right and at least they could see him as someone with health problems who had a great voice - even better than in 1970 - on the big ballads or anything with delicate notes.[/QUOTE]
    If the release of TTWII SE, 68 Special with all the extra footage, and the deluxe Aloha have not changed peoples minds about the talent and vocal abilities of Elvis-I just can not see how EIC can do so.
    Most people with the negative attitude "white jumpsuited, heavy drugged" did not buy the great specials and movies-they are not going to buy EIC IMO.
    Good point. I doubt very much if there is any convincing the general public when trying to promote a "jumpsuited,heavily drugged Elvis"...there is to some degree a bit of a mental block there.I think that at this stage the public in general think "Elvis was great when he was young...then he went to Vegas,got fat and drugged up...end of story". Good luck with ever trying to make Elvis in concert appeal to the general public. The whole overweight,white jumpsuit "thing" has done its damage I think....little by little the jokes,the comments,the parodies have slowly but surely chipped away at the public image of Elvis, and given the type of thinking by those managing the rights to Elvis` image I don`t see too much ever being done to change it.

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    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    silly

    Quote Originally Posted by slystallone1946 View Post
    Elvis is like the Bible, you just can not pick this or that to fit your needs. It is all or nothing.
    That is an interesting point of view. To me it sounds reasonable if it's not meant to deify him and if it's okay to like some of his work more than other material.
    There's no way to accept Elvis just a little bit as a human being.

    For those who don't think Elvis had control: the Hawaiian Wedding Song demonstrates this in 1977, which featured better vocal control compared to versions from 1973 and '74. Also songs such as Just Pretend were emotionally rendered of course, but sometimes the co-operation with choir and adrenaline wasn't 100% precise (in 1970). Bridge Over Troubled Water too beats the earlier versions.

    They don't have to promote Elvis in Concert the way they do Elvis' 30 nummer 1 hits or anything like it. Still there's not even an FTD release for EIC, which is a collector's label, let alone a professional video or DVD which could set some things right compared to youtube-videos or old tapes. Also if they include Moody Blue on an overview of his career, please skip the overdubs.. Elvis didn't like kitsch and he knew it.

    The poor management was a reason during his lifetime, but of course current events determine future trends and there's not much colonel Parker can do about that in the present..

    It's like Schwarzenegger would train like that with the goal in mind to hide away. It's just silly!
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    Re: applying Schwarzenegger-o-nomics to late period Elvis

    There's allways a positive spin to think of if you want. Why not try to explain to the folks why Elvis was like he was (I mean now most people only know the "bad" stuff and not the good. They don't care if the stories are true and if so why did things happen as they did. Nobody knows what he been through so that he became as he was. That he also had to suffer like any other human being, but couldn't get help the way we would get help) and more important: what he stood and still stands for. Make them remember again. Let's make people try to understand Elvis better, so they get another view of him and not only the view they know by those gossip magazines and so called "friends". Now they attack him because they don't understand him or don't want to try to and Elvis can't defend himself.
    Many people, for instance, don't even know how ill Elvis was physically and that he wasn't only jusing medication for fun. (Like many gossip magazines want to make believe us.)
    Elvis had an image and that is what people should realize. Like Elvis once said: "The image is one thing and the man another and it's hard to live up to that image." He was acting all the time to live up to the image that was created around him (And then they say he couldn't act. lol.) It's sad that nobody seems to care who Elvis really was. A charismatic, genarous man with a great talent and lots of love to share.

    Christel (TCE)
    Last edited by TCE; 03-09-2010 at 09:07 AM.

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