Climate Change, Fact Or Fiction?

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Global warming is a hot topic, I just wondered what people on this site think?

There seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there which seems to confuse the average Joe, but in recent news it has been found that the scientists who have gathered the information are guilty of making the numbers fit, so to speak, see below.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16257

If climate change is indeed 100% fact would there be any need to massage the figures?

Here is an interesting article.

http://www.thinkingagain.com/article...al_warming.php

When you read articles like the one above you tend to wonder about the motives for both sides of the argument and what they have to gain. It would seem that all sides have an agenda and will speak according to their paymasters. It would be nice if there were scientists who wanted to look after the interests of the people on the planet

Here is another article which makes you wonder.

http://nw0.eu/2009/11/29/climate-cha...eneration.html

So who is on our side?

[Albert]

The ultimate solution (that is rarely mentioned) is less people on the earth.

We all want more, so our economies have to grow and produce more. We have to fight poverty in the 3rd world. So they will also start to consume more.

Nobody wants to step back, as long as others aren't either ("Why should I live in a cold house, when those big shops downtown leave their warm store open?"). And don't forget the extreme pollution caused by the production of our meat. But does that make me a vegetarian? No.

And how about those cars? Everybody wants to drive a comfortable, big car. It's only because high taxes on cars and fuel that we (Europeans) drive smaller cars, but deep down, that's involuntary. And how about all those highways, filled with cars with only one person in it? Isn't that a weird sight?

And all those big office buildings, keeping the lights on 'till late at night, even though nobody's present? Because it looks 'nice'.

I am no saint and don't want to judge other people, but I just want to point out that WE are the problems (as consumers) and cannot put all blame on governments and big corporate companies. It's the egoistic, selfish part in every human being that wants more and more. Governments now have to come up with rules that force us (consumers and companies) to consume less and produce environment-friendlier.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I agree Albert, there are a lot of resources that are used unnecessarily, however if we are to legislate for the masses, surely we need to have an agenda that is 100% provable otherwise third world countries are going to be penalised before they even get the chance to have a global economy?

The way the world is today half of our energy is being used by computers, consoles and mobile phones half of which are on standby...

The main issue we need to resolve is renewable energy.

Is C02 the main cause of global warming, the jury is still out...

[Dino78]

Well Matt,
I completely believe in the climate change. And that it's made by mankind.

The problem in this discussion is, that both sides are using arguments which are correct. There is a natural climate change, it can be proven through all the ages. So far so good.
But the problem we are facing now is not that natural one. It was our industrialisation that produces too much of f.e. CO2. In a science magazine I've recently read an article about it. It's known since 1860 that CO2 is a gas that holds back the warmth on earth. With that the temperature on earth is rising. With that the ice is going, the deserts are growing, ... . Basing on this knowledge plans were created to bring some pollution on planets like Mars to warm them and create a kind of atmosphere.

The problem for the scientists is that their scientific researches are expansive. So they need some high-potential financees. In Germany we have this idiom "Whose bread I'm eating whose song I sing" (Hope the translation works). Here you have the dilemma. Even when all the scientits from one side know that their opponents are right, do you really think they would change their public opinion?

I think here you have a field were scientist's independence would be a great help.

Unfortunately can't we stop that climate change. We only can slow it down.
Hopefully we find a way to clean up our atmosphere in few years.

[Getlo]

Obviously, we all need to do more to help the environment.

But the whole climate change being caused by humans theory is a complete scam, perpetrated by extreme Greenies.

The Senate in Australia has thankfully just voted down an Emissions Trading Scheme tax.

Anyone who has seen that travesty An Incovenient Truth should also see The Great Global Warming Swindle, where each and every one of Al Gore's points are refuted one by one.

Scientists are almost 100% behind things like evolution etc, but on climate change, they are not.

Climate change deniers like myself are now being treated like Holocaust deniers. It is bloody outrageous.

The whole thing is just another issue that the "sky is falling" people can try to worry us about, like Y2K back in 1999. An absolute JOKE.

Nature will decide earth's future:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1225808400388

More sceptics speak out:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1225808398590

In short, don't believe the hype.

The fact is that the earth is getting warmer ... which is absolutely NATURAL.

[epmoodyblue]

umm... well ur average Joe is telling u the facts its all bull..nothing can be done that the earth is getting warmer ... its outta our hands..the end of the world is coming soon in time were gonna fry..nothing us humans can do about it..dont let those lunatic political leaders fool you..were cookedeh who cares im not going to live another 100 years..got no time to think about this..im goin for a plate of spagetts

[KPM]

I do not know how you can not see some connection between world population and the climate of today.
Around 1492 the time of Colombus-world population was near an estimated 400 million-today in 2009 it is near 7 billion. In 1492 we had no cars, no trains, no plains, no worldwide factories etc ...all of which are worldwide today and make a huge difference in total to the environment of the world we live in.
In the US alone there are approximately 250 million registered cars......worldwide who knows.
I can not pretend to be an authority on this-many contend that the earth goes thru cycles and this is true-but to deny that mankind in the last 200 years has had no connection to world changes seems pretty naive to me.
People exhale carbon dioxide, and plants give off oxygen.
Put one person in a 12 by 12 greenhouse with plants and you have no problem for the plants nor for the person-but put a 100 people in the same building and you end up with a problem for the natural processes which are altered by the people......put a hundred people and a running gas powered machine in the building and you end up eventually with some dead people and sick or dead plants. The balance is everything.

[sasha]

I do not know how you can not see some connection between world population and the climate of today.
Around 1492 the time of Colombus-world population was near an estimated 400 million-today in 2009 it is near 7 billion. In 1492 we had no cars, no trains, no plains, no worldwide factories etc ...all of which are worldwide today and make a huge difference in total to the environment of the world we live in.
In the US alone there are approximately 250 million registered cars......worldwide who knows.
I can not pretend to be an authority on this-many contend that the earth goes thru cycles and this is true-but to deny that mankind in the last 200 years has had no connection to world changes seems pretty naive to me.
People exhale carbon dioxide, and plants give off oxygen.
Put one person in a 12 by 12 greenhouse with plants and you have no problem for the plants nor for the person-but put a 100 people in the same building and you end up with a problem for the natural processes which are altered by the people......put a hundred people and a running gas powered machine in the building and you end up eventually with some dead people and sick or dead plants. The balance is everything.

Agree !! Too bad we can't see what's right in front of us.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091212/...limate_e_mails

[debtdbruno]

I do think the Politicians like scaremungering...........

[Lonniebealestreet]

I do not have a definite answer but here are the things I believe to be true.

Is there climate change going on? Yes.

Are people too short-sighted when they look at X number of years to make a determination in this regard? Yes. This year being warmer or colder than last year, or even this decade being warmer or colder than the last decade...please! Just because it's an 8th of our lifetimes does not mean it is truly big picture.

Is humankind responsible at least in part? Possibly...probably.

In the grand scheme of things, regardless of the philanthropic pleasantries we spew, don't most human beings care about their conveniences over and above those of the animal and plant life and natural resources on this planet? Of course.

Is the Earth more resilient than most people worried about climate change give it credit for? Yes.

But if it's not as resilient as I believe and we end up losing some species here and there, is that really, truly a travesty? No. It may be sad as hell and we'll miss 'em like dinosaurs, but if the human race is the most important inhabitant of the third rock and MAY or may not have something to do with their demise, as long as we are making honest efforts to conserve and protect, then that's all we can do.

What exactly constitutes an honest effort? Well, that is up to people individually depending on their needs, beliefs, priorities and their ability to do certain things. What is so wrong about legislating changes, imposing taxes and new regulations in general is that there is so much conflicting information and people who want to tamper with or misrepresent data. People opposed to climate change legislation are not all cold-hearted, littering, animal killers driving Hummers. They may just happen to be opposed to government interference especially when the case for it is so weak or at least so disputable as it presently is.

[rocknroll]

It's a scam. Climate change is cyclical. Would happen one way or another.

[KPM]

It's a scam. Climate change is cyclical. Would happen one way or another.

I would totally agree that the worlds climate changes in cycles-but not that the idea of human population growth and its developement of machines has not had an affect on this planets natural cycling.
Also there may be an element of fearmongering among some about the effect we have had-but not all the evidence is "cooked" to scare people.
I do not feel its all a scam.

I live on the Mississippi River-my grandfather told me when he was a boy in the early 1900s the river was clean, clear and great to fish in-long before the local steel mill was built near it, and the Boxboard factory, and the glass factory, not to mention the refineries down river.
But the last time he took us down to fish in the late 60s he decided we would go to a nearby lake-because the water looked so mucky and dirty. Today in 2009 people still fish in it-but not me.
All these industries assured the cities that they would take care to not pollute the river-and over the 70 years they have existed-all have been cited for doing just that-the refineries have added a pool of gas and unrefined oil under one city in particular which has made those people sick and disgusted with the foot dragging by the refineries to clean it up-and they denied it was even there for years till the government finally seriously looked into it.
So that is my firsthand knowledge of how pollution can and does affect lives and the future lives of many.

[Tommy]

The fact is that the earth is getting warmer ... which is absolutely NATURAL.

How do you know this?

[epmoodyblue]

reason climate has gone bonkers is because of all those trips to the moon

[KPM]

reason climate has gone bonkers is because of all those trips to the moon

Ha ha

[Getlo]

How do you know this?

Basic science.

[Tommy]

Basic science.

OK, that's not enough though.

[Getlo]

OK, that's not enough though.

Er, yeah it is when science can refute all of the global warming claims. Check out The Great Global Warming Swindle.

Same reason I don't believe in God. Science rules all.

[sasha]

Man is the joke insofar as any credibilty.
One of these days many will get a rude awakening.
Even science refutes science, depending on what day it is.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091212/...limate_e_mails

[epmoodyblue]

Climate Change, Fact Or Fiction?..who knows..but in canada yesterday..there were protests in the streets.. concerning Climate Change thingy..cant remember the city i believe it was vancouver...well about 100 of them some women,,,went to to extreme limits by stripping down to there underwearthe climate quickly changed at that moment we do things in style here in canada