will Elvis be the basis for a future religion?

[Getlo]

Getlo, the way of life you plead for means developing rigor mortis in the prime of life. If there's evolution, why is it pointless?

In terms of "God", life (ie the actual biological processes) is pointless. There is no reason why the earth, all creatures and humans came into being. They just did, with no intelligent creator behind them.

Meaning - and the point of one's own life - comes when one finds their own path.

Religious people tend to think that we atheists are a sour bunch who believe life has no point. On the contrary, life is about learning what is around one and accepting that we are simply carbon-based life forms who live and die ... just like everything else.

And the Nazi angle is addressed in The God Delusion as well. Darwin's survival of the fittest was taken and bastardised by Hitler.

Natural selection is where plants and animals weed out the weakest to die off and perpetuate the strongest version of various species. Nazism took that idea and used man's ideas of who should die off, to the detriment of humanity.

In other words, there's no way natural selection would have killed off the Jews. Evolution and natural selection is indiscriminating.

[suave harv]

Interesting thread.

Along with Get-Lo I long for a day when humans shake off religion and recognise it as folklore. As for Elvis being a religion, I'd say he offers the same service as a religion, he pushes the same buttons for a devoted fan. I'd also say the people lining up on the candleight vigil are exhibiting a form of worship and ritual.
And I don't mind at all, if that's their thing. I don't see it as an act of blasphemy to a sky god because I don't think there is a sky god.

Elvis as a religion? Yea, why not. Where's the harm? I reckon it would be a safer religion than most.

[monk37]

Er, no that's agnosticism - ie, the universe's fence sitters.

Atheists' minds are made up, based on the complete lack of evidence of a divine creator.

Then of course, we have the ridiculous theory of Intelligent Design ... oh, don't get me started on that!

agnostic is about the nature of knowledge - whether we can know or not -


atheism is without belief in dieties, because there's no evidence - but, if actual evidence was provided, we'd examine it and if it was compelling, we wouldn't be atheists anymore

[waymore44]

Getlo,

We've gotten way off topic but your extremely "everyone is an fool but me vibe" is so bothersome and not consistent with the spirit of Elvis that we are all here for.

In addition, I completely disagree with you that being an athiest doesn't take faith. You are having faith in yourself that the decision you've made that God doesn't exist is reality. The reality is I can't prove anything to you and you can't prove anything to me. I will be glad to read the book you quoted because I have a very open mind although I feel you don't, but I will stand by this statement:

It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove or disprove the existence of God scientifically.

You want a world with no religion and no gods. Do you also want a world with no laws? Because that's what you would have if you didn't have the other. I'm sure you believe that right and wrong is relative and that good and evil don't really exist. But I would ask you, where does the sense of right and wrong come from? Just society? I think not. It comes from inside you. You do something wrong to someone and you feel bad about it. Where does the guilt come from? Why do you have it?

You mentioned, "don't get me started on intelligent design". I don't know the answer to this question but I would like to:

What are the mathematical chances that this is all an accident?

Even if you believe in the big bang theory, where did the gases and everything involved in that big bang come from? The only answer an athiest could logically give is, they were just there.

I believe that if there was this big bang, then God is the one who did it and made all of the stuff that caused that reaction. An athiest would ask me, where did God come from? My answer would be, He was just there.

I know it sounds silly to you, but no more silly than the other option does to me.

I would conclude with what definitely is a fact:

SOMEBODY is wrong.

Is it me? Is it you? You don't know, and I don't know. So I go off of faith....but rest assured one of us is wrong. Either God exists or he doesn't.

[LtCarman]

Starting a religion over Elvis is just pushing it...a lot.

[Getlo]

In addition, I completely disagree with you that being an athiest doesn't take faith. You are having faith in yourself that the decision you've made that God doesn't exist is reality.

No, I don't have faith about my decision not to believe in God. I have absolute conviction without a single schred of doubt whatsoever.

Big difference.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove or disprove the existence of God scientifically.

Yeah? Read The God Delusion, then come back to me.

You want a world with no religion and no gods. Do you also want a world with no laws? Because that's what you would have if you didn't have the other.

Incorrect. That was arguably true in the past, but not now. Laws are laws, and nothing to do with God.

What are the mathematical chances that this is all an accident?

Again, read the above book. There are no such things as accidents from a cosmological point of view. In other words, s**t happens.

Even if you believe in the big bang theory, where did the gases and everything involved in that big bang come from? The only answer an athiest could logically give is, they were just there.

Again, the book.

That's what religious people do. When something, eg the actual creation of the Universe, is not understood, they assume that God or some sort of creator was responsible.

SOMEBODY is wrong. Is it me? Is it you?

The former.

[Sweet_One_E.]

personally I've never understood why any one would care what the other guy believes in. really, it's no one's business but their own. if someone want to worship elvis, no skin off my back

[waymore44]

Getlo -

I'm going to read this book. I will find it because you've peaked my interest.

Only really one thing to say to you in relation to this thread:

If you are right....I've lost nothing.
If I'm right......you've lost everything and that will suck very badly.

It is a fact that one of us is wrong.

[Teddy]

The trouble with religion (and The God Delusion, unfortunately) is that it has a tendency to become dogmatic.

The human species' desire to assert a perceived 'incontrovertible truth' is its greatest downfall.

Forget science's fickle explanations and religion's divisive ideologies and embrace love.

The rest is just a bunch of 'vested interests' mucking about at the expense of your state-of-mind.

[Getlo]

Getlo -

I'm going to read this book. I will find it because you've peaked my interest.

My only criticism of the book is that it is occasionally heavy going, and a bit dry and intellectual.

There is also a documentary from, IIRC, the BBC called Root Of All Evil?

It is a fact that one of us is wrong.

Yes. But you'll learn to live with it.

[monk37]

Getlo -

...

Only really one thing to say to you in relation to this thread:

If you are right....I've lost nothing.
If I'm right......you've lost everything and that will suck very badly.

It is a fact that one of us is wrong.

I think it was you who mentioned earlier about the 9/11 hijackers - look where their faith got other people.

Many people no matter what they believe, try to force their beliefs on others to control their behaviour.

Remember in the 70's how if you recycled, you were a hippie freak - and now if you don't you are an earth hating jerk?

[Sonny]

Let's not forget the Christmas spirit in this conversation friends...

Interesting thread for sure, but let's stay friendly. Thank you waymore and Getlo for having an argument without personal insults!

Sonny

[EnigmaticSun]

In other words, there's no way natural selection would have killed off the Jews. Evolution and natural selection is indiscriminating.

I never knew indiscriminating selection was possible!

That's all I have to say and don't forget to shake a hand every day. I'm crazy for Elvis but I don't worship him and that's all there is to it IMHO.

[sasha]

There should be no Elvis religion, IMO.
Because he wouldn't have wanted it, {as he's said " there is only one King}. There is a difference in "worship & honor". We honor great men & women all the time.
I'm not getting into a "God debate" as I've always believed that politics & religion are strictly personal. Always causes arguements & with set ideals; what's the point? I'll only say; intellect & faith can be two different things.
Not necessarilly compatable. But neither completely wrong.

[Nigel_EIN]

There should be no Elvis religion, IMO.
Because he wouldn't have wanted it, {as he's said " there is only one King}. There is a difference in "worship & honor". We honor great men & women all the time.
I'm not getting into a "God debate" as I've always believed that politics & religion are strictly personal. Always causes arguements & with set ideals; what's the point? I'll only say; intellect & faith can be two different things.
Not necessarilly compatable. But neither completely wrong.

Thanks Sasha for a very cogent argument on this controversial subject!

[KPM]

Yes, a feeling. That's all it ever is. There's no certainty.



Answers are always needed.

You see thats where the faith comes in- I find answers that satisfy my need-in the Bible. The feeling I have is a certainty-I have that feeling-my faith gives me that feeling-it satisfys me-and millions upon millions.
I have never tried to "push" a feeling of faith upon anyone-I tell them if they are interested, the how and why of my faith.
But for those who disbelieve-no fact, no explaination, no how and why-will bring that faith.
Jesus and the Bible force no one-its everyones choice of the path and I understand that.

[J.P]

just curious how your post is not personal or disrespectful when it's aimed at me?

Why not simply not post?

I took care to make the title of the thread clear so people would be well warned.

If you found the concept offensive, then why not ignore it and let people who do want to discuss it, do so without judgment and disapproval?

it was my opinion about that kinda belief some ppl are into. and it wasn't directed to you or yer thread just for the belief they have. sorry if it came across in any other way pal

[Getlo]

The feeling I have is a certainty

Spot the contradiction.

[KPM]

Spot the contradiction.

No contradiction-I have a feeling-there is no doubt about the feeling-you will say that feeling is nothing-I will say that feeling is everything.
I can not explain this feeling to your satisfaction-but I have the feeling-whatever it is, whatever it means it is definitely a feeling.
I was not trying to imply the feeling is total all out proof to the world-it is total all out proof to me.

[Tommy]

Please stay on topic, and Elvis would not want to become a religion, Elvis believed in God.

This is a no win conversation we all believe in different entities.