Reply With QuoteA link about JC
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/intervie...zada_2008.html
From what I've seen from Carpenter, I'd have to agree.Originally Posted by ELVIS2001NET
He only thinks he knows it all.
Ignore him ,if you can.
"I have learned never to ridicule any man's opinion, however strange it may seem."
A link about JC
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/intervie...zada_2008.html
"I have learned never to ridicule any man's opinion, however strange it may seem."
We will have to disagree on this my friend.
I think if Parker wanted to get his illegal status in order-and it was as easy as you imply-he would have. The fact is he never did and-never tried. The offers for Elvis to perform overseas were not just in the 70s-yet Parker turned them down way back to the 50s before any drug problem. Parker handled Eddy Arnold and Hank Snow-and neither of them were ever booked under Parker out of the country. Now for Snow that is not a surprise but Eddy Arnold was a country superstar who sold millions of records in the 40s and 50s-he was never even booked in Mexico or Canada by Parker.
Sure I agree the Col. knew many people-but I would say it is debateable as far as the term "connected" which to me implies something else. I know the Mayor of a nearby town-I have several times had drinks with him and discussed politics-but I am not connected- he is not going to fix any tickets nor zoning problems for me-but I have known him for 15 years. Parker the ultimate con man/promotor would naturally talk up who he knew-because thats how you promote yourself. How close would he have stayed to any political people by admitting he had been an illegal alien for his whole stay in the US? In order to get a passport He would have to explain the reasoning for staying an illegal alien and not taking care of the problems years before. I have a question-[B]what did Parker gain by not taking care of it years before? [B]If it was as simple as implied-why did he not just do it?[[/B]/B]It would seem that in 1960 when Elvis returned from the Army-that would have been a good time to straighten it out-in case in the future he needed to travel outside the US in his job as Elvis's manager. Makes absolute sense to me. Elvis said a world tour was being planned before he went into the service-surely Parker would have got the ball rolling to be able to travel out of the US then-but he did not?
I would never call anyone a liar so you have no worry about that my friend. But we do not see this the same.
Sonny saying Parker could have asked for a Passport and got one-is that not speculation on Sonnys part. He is guessing it could have been done-and no one can know what may have happened. I am not being argumentative thats how I see it.
Last edited by KPM; 07-05-2008 at 04:24 PM.
I'd have to agree with you, Ken.
I have The Col. book. IF Parker had wanted it done, he would have did it .
http://books.google.com/books?id=2-H...um=4&ct=result
IMO, Parker was afraid to go out of the US. For several reasons.
His past from his own country , but his diagnosis on his discharge didn't help.
I STILL can't figure out how he got in the service here .
"I have learned never to ridicule any man's opinion, however strange it may seem."
Hi KPM
Sonny isn't making any speculation he knew the Colonel very well and from what I have heard from Lynda Johnson Robb (LBJ's daughter) who was interviewed by Alanna Nash says that the Colonel and LBJ were very good friends enough to exchange gifts and Colonel Parker was the one who gave
LBJ his 1964 Campaign slogan ''All the Way with LBJ'' Colonel parker knew 5 presidents in his lifetime (FDR,Truman,LBJ Regan and Clinton) was friends with several senators and governors, members of LBj's administration, a couple of JFK's aides. He was indeed one connected man. I think a lot of Elvis fans read too much into Colonel being illegal do you think they would have deported Elvis presley manager? The government did not deport him when they found out he was illegal. I appreciate your nice words Kpm and Cameron it's nice to talk with nice and respectful people and not the self proclaimed Elvis expert Dr. John Carpenter
P.S. Hawaii did not become a state until 1959 Elvis played there in 1957 the Colonel went with him. Elvis was pretty busy making movies in the 60's
Eddy Arnold did play Europe in 1948
Well Brian as I said Brian we will respectfully have to disagree on this.
Sonnys comments on something which did not happen-to me are speculation.
The Col. never attempted to get citizenship-through normal avenues, or through Johnson etc....... So IMO since it never happened Sonny is guessing as to what Johnson would have done -if Col. Parker had asked him for help.-(which I stress he never did at least as far as has been reported that I can find) Parker and Elvis sent gifts to people all the time on a regular basis-so I would not find it strange that Parker sent gifts to LBJ because he sent them to many people of varying degrees of familiarity.
As I pointed out Bob Hope knew a lot of Presidents, attended state dinners with them, stayed over in the White House several times, entertained for them -but he only considered a couple as more than acquintances.
You are correct on Hawaii not being a state in 1957-but it was a US Territory so no passports were needed.
The comment on Eddy Arnold in Europe is a new one to me-I did a pretty good internet search a while back on Arnold and Snow to see if they had ever played outside the US when Parker managed each and could come up with nothing-but if you have info he did-one thing I'm sure Parker did not go with him for the tour.
So you see we disagree, you feel the illegal status is over stated and I feel if it was that simple for him to get legal status (as Sonny says) then what stopped him. I mean if for nothing else but doing the right thing and piece of mind.
You say they would not have exported Elvis Presleys manager and I agree-so why did he not just straighten it out ? In 1958 he could have straightened it out so he could visit Elvis in Germany- he did not. He was offered big money several times in the 60s for Elvis to perform, but never attempted to set it right in case an offer came that was just too much to pass on. The problem for me is why did he never do it?
See to me its common sense-when something does not make common sense to me I have to ask what was the hangup.
IMO for some reason he did not want to address this problem-the truth is he kept this part of his life pretty close to his vest for most of his life. His own family in the Netherlands thought he was dead for years and years?
Sorry my friend I just have to disagree, but you make some good points.
ITS GREAT TO SEE TWO OR THREE ADULTS HAVING A DISCUSSION WITH OUT TEMPERS AND EGOS GETTING IN THE WAY>
JOE KREIN
www.elvis2001.net
Very interesting discussions going on here!! No name calling - what a delight!!!
Forever Best Friends
Hi again Kpm
Thank you for disagreeing with me in a nice way and not calling me a liar like the phoney Dr. always does just because I know something he doesn't.
In regards to overseas travel or performing in places outside of the U.S.
Colonel Parker did in fact go with Elvis to Canada when Elvis played there in 1957. you didn't need a passport to get in to Canada back then so the Colonel could have arranged for Hank Snow to play there as well. Given the fact that Mr. Snow was a native Canadian and popular in Canada the Colonel should have booked him.
I found in an Eddy Arnold Bio that he did tour Europe in 1948 that seems very likely to me as Mr. Arnold was a major crossover artist during that time like Garth Brooks was in the 1990's
I agree with you I would have gotten it taken care of sooner Sonny was saying that Colonel's illegal alien status was not and never was an issue and Colonel was never worried about it like it has been claimed by many people.
The United states government may have or may not have deported a no name Tom Parker but they would never deport a famous person and Elvis presley's Manager Colonel Tom Parker who was famous in his own right.
Sonny was saying that the Colonel was good friends with all these government people not just acquaintances
LBJ thought a lot of the Colonel they seemed to be pretty tight
I asked Joe (thanks again Joe) for help in confirming that LBJ and Colonel were friends he got in touch with Mrs. Parker who says that LBJ use to visit Colonel in his home when he could, when his schedule permitted.
Sonny said that the Colonel would have admitted to LBJ that he was illegal and asked him to fix things up for him to leave the country and get back in so he wouldn't have to fill out the paperwork.
LBJ probably would have been surprised at first to learn Colonel was not American born but then would have indeed helped him out. I wouldn't be surprised if LBJ gave Colonel a gold plated passport.(LOL)
Elvis was real busy in the 60's he was obligated to make 2-3 films a year in the 60's his contracts ran out in 1969 so that's when he started performing again.
I hope this information helps you KPM
If you have any questions or disagreements with me I will be happy to talk to you again.
I am confident I can convince you and bring you over to my side on this issue.
See Elvis fans can have disagreements and still get along.
America has contributed four things to the world that are really unique: Baseball, Coca-Cola, Mickey Mouse and Elvis Presley. And only one of them is human - - Jerry Hopkins - "Elvis" - A Biography.
btw Cameron and Elvislady I started a Colonel Parker and Beatles thread in the off topic section I would like to get your thoughts and opinions on it or anyone else thoughts and opinions if they would like to participate.
I'm afraid Brian you and I are making the same arguments over and over again-neither of us is making any headway. Neither of us is going to change the others mind-(I'm not really trying to change your mind though I'm just giving my thoughts as I see it from all I've read and heard)
As far as Mrs. Parkers comments-I would only say that since the heart of the argument is did Col. keep Elvis from touring overseas because of his lack of citizenship-she would naturally back up the idea that LBJ was so close.
I did some looking in 2 biographys on LBJ I have in my political books-neither mention the Col. anywhere. (one is written by noted Presidential historian Doris Kearns. Kearns did 3 years of research for this book "Lyndon Johnson-and theAmerican Dream" and Parker is not mentioned at all- even in connection to the slogan All the Way with LBJ)
We are still dealing with speculation IMO-If Parker had actually asked LBJ to help him-then we would know how close they truely were by LBJs actions. Parker never did, he kept his status quiet to practically everyone. I realise Elvis was contractually bound to 2-3 pictures a year (I went to see them when they came out)
But some of the offers were for single performances. It made no difference the COl. turned them all down.
Elvis had months where he was not making films, a single show at Wembley stadium in England could surely have been arranged -thats an offer I recall reading somewhere. Alex Shoofey, the President of the International for years, was present when a promotor asked what the Col. wanted to get Elvis overseas-Parker began asking for the moon and this guy kept agreeing, Parker just kept upping the ante but the guy kept agreeing it went on and on-finally the Col. said "We don't want to go to Europe" Shoofey could not believe it.
The one huge question which looms always in my mind is what I have already stated-
"If it was so simple why did he never do it?"
If as Sonny claims Parker never worried about it-why was it not common knowledge to everyone? (including the MM)-no reason to keep it secret if if does not worry him. To me the answer seems simple-the Col. did not want to deal with it nor have it common knowledge-something about it worried him enough to not do it.
The book which broke the story came out in 1995 but led to a second book by Alanna Nash-Nash had interviewed Colonel Parker but her examination into his life kept unfolding with so many twists and turns that it led to six years of exhaustive research including travel to his birthplace Breda in the Netherlands for documents and interviews. Her book, The Colonel: The Extraordinary Story of Colonel Tom Parker and Elvis Presley, was published on July 15, 2003 to extraordinary acclaim with publications such as Billboard magazine calling it a "classic of music industry reporting". Most insiders were amazed at this unknown side to the Col.
Having been a fan for over 45 years I have changed my thoughts several times on many subjects and am open to hearing others-but as I said you and I just see this in a differing way my friend.
on page 115 in the "GRACELANDS ARCHIVE AUCTION CATALOG"I'm afraid Brian you and I are making the same arguments over and over again-neither of us is making any headway. Neither of us is going to change the others mind-(I'm not really trying to change your mind though I'm just giving my thoughts as I see it from all I've read and heard)
As far as Mrs. Parkers comments-I would only say that since the heart of the argument is did Col. keep Elvis from touring overseas because of his lack of citizenship-she would naturally back up the idea that LBJ was so close.
I did some looking in 2 biographys on LBJ I have in my political books-neither mention the Col. anywhere. (one is written by noted Presidential historian Doris Kearns. Kearns did 3 years of research for this book "Lyndon Johnson-and theAmerican Dream" and Parker is not mentioned at all- even in connection to the slogan All the Way with LBJ)
We are still dealing with speculation IMO-If Parker had actually asked LBJ to help him-then we would know how close they truely were by LBJs actions. Parker never did, he kept his status quiet to practically everyone. I realise Elvis was contractually bound to 2-3 pictures a year (I went to see them when they came out
But some of the offers were for single performances. It made no difference the COl. turned them all down.
Elvis had months where he was not making films, a single show at Wembley stadium in England could surely have been arranged -thats an offer I recall reading somewhere. Alex Shoofey, the President of the International for years, was present when a promotor asked what the Col. wanted to get Elvis overseas-Parker began asking for the moon and this guy kept agreeing, Parker just kept upping the ante but the guy kept agreeing it went on and on-finally the Col. said "We don't want to go to Europe" Shoofey could not believe it.
The one huge question which looms always in my mind is what I have already stated-
"If it was so simple why did he never do it?"
If as Sonny claims Parker never worried about it-why was it not common knowledge to everyone? (including the MM)-no reason to keep it secret if if does not worry him. To me the answer seems simple-the Col. did not want to deal with it nor have it common knowledge-something about it worried him enough to not do it.
The book which broke the story came out in 1995 but led to a second book by Alanna Nash-Nash had interviewed Colonel Parker but her examination into his life kept unfolding with so many twists and turns that it led to six years of exhaustive research including travel to his birthplace Breda in the Netherlands for documents and interviews. Her book, The Colonel: The Extraordinary Story of Colonel Tom Parker and Elvis Presley, was published on July 15, 2003 to extraordinary acclaim with publications such as Billboard magazine calling it a "classic of music industry reporting". Most insiders were amazed at this unknown side to the Col.
Having been a fan for over 45 years I have changed my thoughts several times on many subjects and am open to hearing others-but as I said you and I just see this in a differing way my friend.
THERE ARE TWO BLACK AND WHITE PHOTOS THAT WERE SIGNED TO THERE FRIEND col tom parker. THE PHOTOS ARE JOHN F KENNEDY AND Lyndon B Johnson. the following is what is written in the catalog. COLONEL TOM PARKER HAD FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES , NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH WERE 35TH AND 36TH PRESIDENTS OF THE U.S.
THE JOHNSON PHOTO IS SIGNED . TO COLONEL TOM PARKER WITH WARM (CANT MAKE IT OUT) FROM HIS FRIEND LYNDON B JOHNSON
this plus knowing Mrs Parker , i have have never known her to lie.
I KNOW THIS STILL WILL NOT BE ENOUGH SO I WILL KEEP HITTING THE BOOKS.
Joe K
www.elvis2001.net
Please do not misunderstand my point-I am not doubting that Parker knew powerful people-but that does not necessarily translate into
"heartfelt, go to the ends of the earth type friendships where you can ask huge favors with little question"
Those type friendships-where you go on hunting trips, or regularly have dinner with the family etc...I do not see that type friendship in what I have read on Johnson, Kennedy or Parker.
I have a a couple dozen books going back 40 years on Kennedy (only have the 2 on Johnson)-I can say pretty much with confidence Parker or Elvis are not mentioned in any that I can recall. I would think that in the context we have been discussing Johnson and Parker-there would be some mention-if they were more than friendly acquaitances with limited contact. Some of the Kennedy books I have not read for 40 years- but I will give them a look as I can to make sure neither are mentioned.
I mean IMO Parker not taking action about his status is the heart of my doubts.
If I was handling the worlds hottest star-I would think we may need to go overseas. Long before the drugs were an overwhelming problem-what kept him from preparing by taking care of the illegal status situation. With all due respect-if it was as simple as a phone call to LBJ, that makes it equally suspicious that he never did so.
So IMO either he did not feel the friendship was as close as portrayed-or (for what ever his reasons) he did not want to face it.
I mean no disrespect in sticking to my opinion-I just believe it.
How are you doing Kpm it's good to talk with youI'm afraid Brian you and I are making the same arguments over and over again-neither of us is making any headway. Neither of us is going to change the others mind-(I'm not really trying to change your mind though I'm just giving my thoughts as I see it from all I've read and heard)
As far as Mrs. Parkers comments-I would only say that since the heart of the argument is did Col. keep Elvis from touring overseas because of his lack of citizenship-she would naturally back up the idea that LBJ was so close.
I did some looking in 2 biographys on LBJ I have in my political books-neither mention the Col. anywhere. (one is written by noted Presidential historian Doris Kearns. Kearns did 3 years of research for this book "Lyndon Johnson-and theAmerican Dream" and Parker is not mentioned at all- even in connection to the slogan All the Way with LBJ)
We are still dealing with speculation IMO-If Parker had actually asked LBJ to help him-then we would know how close they truely were by LBJs actions. Parker never did, he kept his status quiet to practically everyone. I realise Elvis was contractually bound to 2-3 pictures a year (I went to see them when they came out
But some of the offers were for single performances. It made no difference the COl. turned them all down.
Elvis had months where he was not making films, a single show at Wembley stadium in England could surely have been arranged -thats an offer I recall reading somewhere. Alex Shoofey, the President of the International for years, was present when a promotor asked what the Col. wanted to get Elvis overseas-Parker began asking for the moon and this guy kept agreeing, Parker just kept upping the ante but the guy kept agreeing it went on and on-finally the Col. said "We don't want to go to Europe" Shoofey could not believe it.
The one huge question which looms always in my mind is what I have already stated-
"If it was so simple why did he never do it?"
If as Sonny claims Parker never worried about it-why was it not common knowledge to everyone? (including the MM)-no reason to keep it secret if if does not worry him. To me the answer seems simple-the Col. did not want to deal with it nor have it common knowledge-something about it worried him enough to not do it.
The book which broke the story came out in 1995 but led to a second book by Alanna Nash-Nash had interviewed Colonel Parker but her examination into his life kept unfolding with so many twists and turns that it led to six years of exhaustive research including travel to his birthplace Breda in the Netherlands for documents and interviews. Her book, The Colonel: The Extraordinary Story of Colonel Tom Parker and Elvis Presley, was published on July 15, 2003 to extraordinary acclaim with publications such as Billboard magazine calling it a "classic of music industry reporting". Most insiders were amazed at this unknown side to the Col.
Having been a fan for over 45 years I have changed my thoughts several times on many subjects and am open to hearing others-but as I said you and I just see this in a differing way my friend.
It's illogical to assume that every personal friend or aquictance of President Johnson's would get a mention in Major biographies there would be too many to mention.
same thing with Elvis does Pat Boone or Jackie Deshannon or Sammy Davis get a mention in every Elvis bio
Colonel Parker didn't have anything to do with LBJ's political career
Those biographies have to do with LBJ's political career.
Sonny was saying that Colonel would have asked LBJ to fix things up for him
had Elvis not had drug problems, he would have had an impossible job of going through customs. It's ironic that it was Elvis and not the Colonel after all that would have had trouble getting in an out of other countries.
You can't change my mind about this I am 100% certain of everything I have said regarding this however I am still confident I can get you to jump ship.
He wasn't worried about it fans and biographers read too much into it
Colonel Parker was not a stupid man he knew the United States would never deport him. I have seen many celebrities get away with all kinds of things worse than what Colonel Parker did.
I will talk with you again soon
I agree the Col. was not stupid-which IMO makes the idea that he never took care of this so absurd. We are speculating if Elvis could or could not have left the country-yet the unmistakeable fact is Parker definetly could not. He had ample time to get his situation in order. I would say in 1960 Elvis could have gone overseas with little problem, 1969 to say 1971 I also think would have been possible while Elvis was motivated and engaged in his career. Its a little funny to me the idea huge amounts of drugs would have to be smuggled through customs-I mean they have doctors and pharmacies overseas, any need Elvis would have had-could have been dealt with overthere. Its not like McCartney, Jaggar, and their pot problems etc....
Once again Brian my friend-I'm not trying to change your mind. If you believe it thats good. My thoughts are not something I just came up with on this subject-I mean I have given this some careful thought. I'm sure you have as well. We will have to agree to disagree on this.
I agree the Col. was not stupid-which IMO makes the idea that he never took care of this so absurd. We are speculating if Elvis could or could not have left the country-yet the unmistakeable fact is Parker definetly could not. He had ample time to get his situation in order. I would say in 1960 Elvis could have gone overseas with little problem, 1969 to say 1971 I also think would have been possible while Elvis was motivated and engaged in his career. Its a little funny to me the idea huge amounts of drugs would have to be smuggled through customs-I mean they have doctors and pharmacies overseas, any need Elvis would have had-could have been dealt with overthere. Its not like McCartney, Jaggar, and their pot problems etc....
Once again Brian my friend-I'm not trying to change your mind. If you believe it thats good. My thoughts are not something I just came up with on this subject-I mean I have given this some careful thought. I'm sure you have as well. We will have to agree to disagree on this.
It wasn't just an illegal drug problem remember Johnny Cash got busted for Carrying Legally prescribed prescription drugs one or two pill bottles
Elvis carried more than that. Plus Elvis carrying all of those firearms he carried that would have been a problem.
When Elvis came back from the army he started making movies immediately he started shooting GI blues in April 1960, Flaming Star in August 1960, Wild in the Country October 1960 that keep him very busy. Remember Elvis didn't do a U.S. tour at all during the 60's he just didn't have time.
Colonel Parker could have gotten taken care of anytime he wanted
I ask that you please think about?
P.S. Did you know that the Colonel had sent Charlie stone to Europe to look at venues for a possible European tour in 1978
It wouldn't have happened though because of Elvis drug problems he would have had to get clean first and then go
If you read pages 38, 69, 187, 189, 326 in Alanna Nash book you will find out more about Colonels relationship with LBJ
I have thought about this. If Parker was actually looking for European venues-that even makes less senseIMO-1969-1971 when Elvis was fit, healthy and had the drug problem under better control Parker- but was not looking for venues-then in 1977 he is looking for a possible world tour when Elvis was unhealthy, overweight, and his drug problem the worst? I ask you does that make sense"
I have always seen Parker as a very manipulative person who knew what buttons to push. Since you mentioned an Eddy Arnold biography you have to know for years after "Eddy fired Parker" Arnold would not talk about him? It was not until the 70s that Eddy mellowed in his opinion of Parker.
Hal Kantar screenwriter and director said of Parker, he would not trust him as far as he could see him. He spent much time with Elvis and Parker leading up to his writing "Loving You" and he felt Parker always put Parker first nomatter how it appeared. Its fruitless for us to keep going over this. I respect your thoughts I just do not agree.
Last edited by KPM; 07-06-2008 at 06:33 PM.
That's not true about Colonel Parker and Eddy ArnoldI have thought about this. If Parker was actually looking for European venues-that even makes less senseIMO-1969-1971 when Elvis was fit, healthy and had the drug problem under better control Parker- but was not looking for venues-then in 1977 he is looking for a possible world tour when Elvis was unhealthy, overweight, and his drug problem the worst? I ask you does that make sense"
I have always seen Parker as a very manipulative person who knew what buttons to push. Since you mentioned an Eddy Arnold biography you have to know for years after "Eddy fired Parker" Arnold would not talk about him? It was not until the 70s that Eddy mellowed in his opinion of Parker.
Hal Kantar screenwriter and director said of Parker, he would not trust him as far as he could see him. He spent much time with Elvis and Parker leading up to his writing "Loving You" and he felt Parker always put Parker first nomatter how it appeared. Its fruitless for us to keep going over this. I respect your thoughts I just do not agree.
There is a picture of Colonel parker and Eddy Arnold in Alanna Nash book from 1959.
It is 100% true that Colonel was looking at venues for a European tour in 1978
Joe K will confirm it
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