TCB - Philosophical Debate

[Getlo]

Please respect my wishes, I have no desire to interact with you.

Good for you.

If you choose to post comments such as those above, there is nothing to stop me from responding to them.

Should you choose not to respond again, that's your prerogative.

[MissyM]

As I said, you can rationalize, and excuse, but just because some people cheered and weren't bothered by it, doesn't mean others were not. It's a matter of principle. And this is why I hestitated to explain. Rudeness can be subjective. What one person finds rude, another might not. I find it rude. My husband is in the music field and wouldn't think for a second to use that avenue to vent. (but then he neither drinks or does drugs while performing)
And it was hypocritical to be on drugs ranting, about people saying you are on drugs. No matter how you cut it, you should not be messed up. You wouldn't get away with it on any other job and that was his job, his customers/fans deserved to have him of sound mind when he performed.

[TotallyInsane]

I guess it didn't hurt him too bad - we're all still here - 32 years later!

[SleepyJack]

Not so sure that Rock`n`Roll would ever have gotten off the ground without some drugs and rudeness of one kind or another.... and I don`t think too many people in his audiences ever thought of themselves as "customers"...they didn`t come to see Elvis "doing his job" either..... they were there to listen to him and watch him in person entertaining. No disrespect to anyone of a delicate nature or those easily offended but on the relatively rare moments when Elvis blew a fuse onstage it was still pretty tame.... and besides,in the case of him ranting about things that had been written about him.... they did that in a public manner...and Elvis responded(hypocritically or not) in his own public manner.... I really don`t see the problem here.

[Teddy]

Also, since it is received wisdom that Elvis suffered from substance dependency, the chances are that his performance would have been more likely to suffer if he wasn't using (at least by the time that addiction had fully taken hold, anyway).

[Getlo]

No disrespect to anyone of a delicate nature or those easily offended but on the relatively rare moments when Elvis blew a fuse onstage it was still pretty tame.... and besides,in the case of him ranting about things that had been written about him.... they did that in a public manner...and Elvis responded(hypocritically or not) in his own public manner.... I really don`t see the problem here.

It's not just about the unprofessionalism of these drug-fuelled rants.

It was unprofessional of him to have been on stage in that condition.

Period.

And the magazines, while being "public", were accurate.

It was wrong for Elvis to respond to them from the stage. Singing was his job. That is what people paid for; yes, they paid to hear him sing, ie his job.

If he wanted to respond, he should have issued a proper statement through the proper channels to the media.

The stage is and was no place for personal rants and other BS like that.

Elvis was exposed for the hypocrite he was on August 16th, 1977 when drugs ultimately killed him.

I bet everyone who saw his on-stage "I'm not on drugs" rants were not surprised when he died.

And I bet most discerning audience members knew that what Elvis was saying on stage was total crap, and that there was something wrong. The audio evidence of this is crystal clear.

[Miss Clawdy]

Who was at Elvis' concert when he was on one of his tangents?

It was vegas 74, here's the link, post 93

http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread....528#post276528

[Getlo]

It was vegas 74, here's the link, post 93

http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread....528#post276528

Sadly, actually being at the show has blinded Vegas74 to the actual truth.

"the "critics" (who were not at the show!) made up their own minds to say Elvis was "off his head" and he was this, or he was that!!.....crap."

He was off his head. His utterances are perfect examples of someone who is "speeding". Very sad indeed.

"It was a "GREAT SHOW"...Elvis looked "FANTASTIC" sang "GREAT" and just because he got a few things off his chest ( big deal)it has been turned into something else?"

He may have looked great and sang well. That doesn't change the fact that he was dialling off his chops.

"I could go on in more detail but if you can get hold of a copy of "Desert Storm the Shattering of a Myth" by Darrin Lee my full account of the show is in it."

Darrin Lee is deluded and fanatical. His two books do more disservice to Elvis' legacy than most tomes out there now.

Even Helen Keller would have known Elvis was stoned out of his gourd that night!

[SleepyJack]

Some good points flying around here.... some of them are flying right past me though.Okay, maybe,in an ideal world Elvis would have only made personal appearances when he was in peak physical condition and free of all drugs,the audience would,in sharing this perfection,behave in a civilised and orderly manner,they too would have no drugs in their systems,except possibly the legal limit of alcohol...y`know,just to loosen up a little.The show would pass without a hitch and our hero would enthrall the masses with perfect renditions of his hits and the popular tunes of the day, people would sway to and fro to the music (in their own space of course) and would go home happy knowing that Mr. Presley had again given them good value for their dollar. The newspaper for the following day,apart from the glowing reviews of the shows,would also include a personal hand-written apology by our man for breaking wind during a particularly high note in his warm rendition of "magic moments". Ah yes.... good old Elvis...you can always count on him for good clean,healthy fun...and always within the boundaries of taste and respectability... Hoo-Rah!

[Donut]

The newspaper for the following day,apart from the glowing reviews of the shows,would also include a personal hand-written apology by our man for breaking wind during a particularly high note in his warm rendition of "magic moments". Ah yes.... good old Elvis...you can always count on him for good clean,healthy fun...and always within the boundaries of taste and respectability... Hoo-Rah!

[Diane]

Some good points flying around here.... some of them are flying right past me though.Okay, maybe,in an ideal world Elvis would have only made personal appearances when he was in peak physical condition and free of all drugs,the audience would,in sharing this perfection,behave in a civilised and orderly manner,they too would have no drugs in their systems,except possibly the legal limit of alcohol...y`know,just to loosen up a little.The show would pass without a hitch and our hero would enthrall the masses with perfect renditions of his hits and the popular tunes of the day, people would sway to and fro to the music (in their own space of course) and would go home happy knowing that Mr. Presley had again given them good value for their dollar. The newspaper for the following day,apart from the glowing reviews of the shows,would also include a personal hand-written apology by our man for breaking wind during a particularly high note in his warm rendition of "magic moments". Ah yes.... good old Elvis...you can always count on him for good clean,healthy fun...and always within the boundaries of taste and respectability... Hoo-Rah!

[KPM]

To be frank I do not get upset that some think Elvis was unprofessional for going off on tangents or to get "personal" when on stage. They see it that way so how can they react any different.
I don't totally see it that way and I can not react any different also.
No one on any job should ever "blow their top" or "be under the influence of any type of stimulants" yet it happens worse today than ever before. If you compare the total career of Elvis with the last years "where he did step over the line" I think he did pretty well for most of it. But he is the one in the spotlight-and he is the one who got the press. Most of us don't play it all out for everyone to see and to critique. Good or bad.

Below are the top five drugs for depression and they are prescribed by doctors to workers everyday-and these people do have occasional problems on the job.
You can not take this stuff everyday and always have things run smooth. Some people adjust to taking them and have no problems... others overtake them, some don't take them everyday as prescribed and trouble happens.....inappropriate actions and speech....bad judgements....bad work performance.
..... Now if you take an anti-depressant plus an anti-anxiety drug- it just doubles the potential for problems.
People sc*ew up. Today there is much more tolerance at work for people who have problems and use medications (for the good or bad make your own judgement)
Drug Brand Class 2007 Prescriptions (in millions) in US

Sertraline Zoloft SSRI 29.652
Escitalopram Lexapro SSRI 27.023
Fluoxetine Prozac SSRI 22.266
Bupropion Wellbutrin NDRI 20.184
Paroxetine Paxil SSRI 18.141
Nearly 120 million prescriptions in the US alone just for these 5.
Miracle drugs- for 50 plus years we've called them miracle drugs..........

[Brian]

What books would they be?

Elvis was defending himself against the tabloid magazines of the day, which hinted at Elvis' drug use.

The only thing they got wrong was the types of drugs he was using.

They said cocaine (and heroin in one case), but it was prescription drugs as we now know.

As bad as tabloids can be, there is a grain of truth in 99% of the stories that are written about the stars.

The magazines were spot on about Elvis. Just wrong about the cocaine.

Well I don't think Elvis liked being called a drug addict that's what got him so pissed off.

To him he wasn't a drug addict because he did prescribed drugs but people that did street drugs like Heroin and Cocaine were and he didn't appreciate that.

I agree addressing the issue on stage was the wrong way to go about it since the fans wanted him to sing but he was wasted that night.

[TotallyInsane]

This place makes me sick to my stomach!

[Merry]

You see I would agree that somethings are "too sacred and special to talk about" but if they are, then you don't-in any way shape or form.
Isn't that the point of something being so special and personal-you keep it to yourself? You make no mention of it because it was between you and someone else-and it was truely special. I feel the same-if a trust or friendship was special-then you keep it confidential.
If I feel it does not betray my confidence to mention the situation then I answer questions about it. I don't think thats out of line. But I would not drop hints, make definitive statements, on a person or confidence unless I felt it was not a betrayal to that person. I think its a fair way of looking at it.

I'm not you, Ken.

I was told the other side of a lot of cr*ppy stories. So, what I say and why I say what I do, is in defence of Elvis. I try to show another point of view, from people who were there.

Referring to other posts here of late, it appears that this place is a recepticle for other's egos, and their pecking order as to how close they feel they were around Elvis. If that gives them a buzz, that's great, I'm happy for them. I reckon Elvis wouldn't like the politics on here, may be I'm right, maybe I'm right, When people are bullied, no, I'm not happy. So many have left, because they were bullied, teased, or provoked into losing their tempers. Gang mentality on here, it's ridiculous.

There is also a lot of manipulation on here, using tricks taught by parents, of boosting other people's egos, to get on their good side, whatever rocks people's boats.

One member who left here, would email me, scared, warning me that I would be picked on, from something I said, that I should remove it. How loving and caring, but ridiculous they felt this way, from how they were spoken to.

I too, could flash a bit of something and get my own way, but I'll keep that for Elvis, the rain doesn't need to fall, he has my heart already, and the brand new start I'd love to be ..

That is all I'm prepared to say, because that is how I feel about the situation. I knew one of Elvis' friends, before I met Genie. Others, I have met in other places: AEK, for one, an incredible friend of Elvis' emailed me out of the blue.

Some people are perceptive, and can tell, when something makes sense. I know some do see all, and are frightened to post.

I'm told things first hand, and "that's the way it is, baby", lol.

[TotallyInsane]

I'm not you, Ken.

I was told the other side of a lot of cr*ppy stories. So, what I say and why I say what I do, is in defence of Elvis. I try to show another point of view, from people who were there.

Referring to other posts here of late, it appears that this place is a recepticle for other's egos, and their pecking order as to how close they feel they were around Elvis. If that gives them a buzz, that's great, I'm happy for them. I reckon Elvis wouldn't like the politics on here, may be I'm right, maybe I'm right, When people are bullied, no, I'm not happy. So many have left, because they were bullied, teased, or provoked into losing their tempers. Gang mentality on here, it's ridiculous.

There is also a lot of manipulation on here, using tricks taught by parents, of boosting other people's egos, to get on their good side, whatever rocks people's boats.

OK - now you've taken things a little too far! Your post about Rosanne's parents (I know that's who you're talking about) teaching tricks.....
no tricks to be taught there sweetheart. That was a man who loved his little girl more than the world could measure and he enjoyed seeing his daughter happy. He was a fine man who worked hard his entire life to make sure his family got what they needed and wanted. He adored his little girl. And, for you to make it sound like he was teaching his little girl dirty tricks to get to meet people is just nothing more than complete and total jealously on your part. You can talk about me and Rosanne all you like but when it comes to our parents - that's where I draw the line. If you want all this to get personal - I will get personal too and I guarantee you won't like it either. Leave our parents out of this.

One member who left here, would email me, scared, warning me that I would be picked on, from something I said, that I should remove it. How loving and caring, but ridiculous they felt this way, from how they were spoken to.

I too, could flash a bit of something and get my own way, but I'll keep that for Elvis, the rain doesn't need to fall, he has my heart already, and the brand new start I'd love to be ..

You gonna flash Elvis when you get to heaven???

That is all I'm prepared to say, because that is how I feel about the situation. I knew one of Elvis' friends, before I met Genie. Others, I have met in other places: AEK, for one, an incredible friend of Elvis' emailed me out of the blue.
Some people are perceptive, and can tell, when something makes sense. I know some do see all, and are frightened to post.

I'm told things first hand, and "that's the way it is, baby", lol.

I saw things first hand so "that's the way it is", really!

[Getlo]

Well I don't think Elvis liked being called a drug addict that's what got him so pissed off.

He was a drug addict, that's what's so hypocritical about it all.

[May]

I guess because the label "drug addict" conjures up images of heroin addicts sitting in an alleyway, full of rubbish, injecting themselves and being totally out of control. Elvis reasoned that because the doctors were prescribing the drugs, he wasnt one of "those people" and that he wasnt out of control. Denial all round. Incredibly sad.

Totally Insane ... question for you, what period of Elvis's life were you around him?

[TotallyInsane]

I guess because the label "drug addict" conjures up images of heroin addicts sitting in an alleyway, full of rubbish, injecting themselves and being totally out of control. Elvis reasoned that because the doctors were prescribing the drugs, he wasnt one of "those people" and that he wasnt out of control. Denial all round. Incredibly sad.

Totally Insane ... question for you, what period of Elvis's life were you around him?

The years 1970-1977

[May]

Anything you'd like to share with us? Little stories? or even BIG stories?
How did you meet him?