a macho's average brain

[EnigmaticSun]

Hey everybody,

From what I have read in other people's stories and opinions, some think Elvis was macho and/or think he was not very intelligent. In some cases, people say this to bring him down and to favor the Beatles or Bob Dylan - this comment does not serve to say anything negative about those people!

What I'm trying to point out is that it used to be ultra-progressive being an Elvis-fan, as opposed to conservatism. Nowadays it's still okay (based upon experiences with peers and family) to enjoy the music of the Beatles, but Elvis is.. well, old-fashioned and not of this time.

How do you fans feel about these things?

What makes people perceive Elvis as a macho-male? Did Elvis really consider himself macho? An actress such as Ursula Andress has said that he was in fact very understanding, well-mannered and kind.

Why is there this association with "being average" or even dumb? Is it hate for anything farm-land/country-boy? Was there a hidden philosophical mind in him?

Do you think Elvis had an average brain? Is there any reason to conclude he found himself to be like that?

Do snobs dislike Elvis in favor of the later rock bands? What explains the sudden shift from ultra-progressive (in the 50's) to today's supposed old-fashionedness?

It seems that questions keep popping up like bubbles in a case of club soda. The two major issues that still surround his "image" are being an average country-boy and macho. Mistakenly or what?

[elvisia]

Hey everybody,

Nowadays it's still okay (based upon experiences with peers and family) to enjoy the music of the Beatles, but Elvis is.. well, old-fashioned and not of this time.

How do you fans feel about these things?

Well, people are still buying and listening a lot to Elvis, I think almost every family owns at least one or more Elvis cd( Not sure that this can be said about Beatles or any other performer).....now, 30 years after his passing, his music is still beeing played on the radio.
I know a lot of people who are not Elvis fans, but they all know who he was and they do like his music...young and old and I`m yet to hear one person say that he or she don`t like or know his music.

&

[EnigmaticSun]

Of course Elvis is too great to ever be really forgotten.

But where I have been, slander and cruel jokes are dominant. They blame him for being racist, dumb and old-fashioned, the intellectual elite. I was the odd person for liking him.

[elvisia]

Of course Elvis is too great to ever be really forgotten.

But where I have been, slander and cruel jokes are dominant. They blame him for being racist, dumb and old-fashioned, the intellectual elite. I was the odd person for liking him.

Hmm, I think it`s just because they ONLY heard some of the rubbish that`s been written about him, but really it`s the music that counts...you tell them just to listen...and forget about nasty stories wich is mostly untrue...and made up by people who don`t know a thing.....they just make it up.....why??? I don`t know, but some people are like that.

A few days ago, I was contacted by a woman who asked about a Elvis song title.......her 9 years old daughter heard an Elvis song on the radio and just wanted that song on cd "Really bad" and her mother wanted to bye the cd for her, but only knew a few words of the song, that her daughter was singing all the time......A song with the words BLUE.BLUE.BLUE....lol, so now I`ll have to find some songs.....Blue christmas.....Blue suede shoes......Blue moon...etc.
My point is.....this is an example of a very young girl, who gets to know Elvis by his music and loves him for that..........sure hope I`ll find the right song for her and that she`ll get to hear more songs that she`s going to love as much.

[EnigmaticSun]

You're talking about a kid at an age of innocence. The major trouble started in their teens. Where I come from it was just un-cool or not intellectual to like Elvis, not even after hearing his music. It was intellectual to be nihilistic and anti-religious.

[Rover]

Elvis was very popular among the people who were teenagers in the 50s: when the next generation grew up, they decided Elvis was "uncool" because they wanted to do things differently from their parents, that is what every generation do.
I don't think Elvis was dumb, he read books about religions, philosophies,...I'm not sure this would interest a dumb person

Of course Elvis is too great to ever be really forgotten.

I'm sorry to say it, but I don't know a single kid of my age (except on the internet) who can name an Elvis song. They just know Elvis was a singer, a long, long time ago, that's all.

[Joe Car]

Elvis was by no means dumb, in the intellectual sense, this according to several Memphis Mafia members as well as many of his girlfriends. There have been many stories from loved ones, who were with him day in and day out, about his reading all the time, and being able to carry on deep conversations about anything. I believe it's stereo-typical that people from the south are portrayed as slow, which of course we know is absolutely false. This is a man who memorized many of his songs, after hearing them once or twice. I remember reading how impressed everybody on the set of the movie Love Me Tender was with him, after he had memorized not only all of his lines, but everybody's else's as well!

[EnigmaticSun]

From what I know, I wouldn't consider Elvis dumb at all. I guess people think of Southerners as dumb in the context of hatred towards farmers. It's a common trait big city people think farmers are living according to backwards ways and such.

From where I stand, I'd say Elvis was rather gifted than dumb. But how do you people feel about the macho thing?

Even though younger kids may not know the titles of Elvis' songs, they do know his name. I guess a lot of other singers from the 30's or 50's wouldn't make a bell ring, so to say. I'm convinced Elvis will never be forgotten.

Thank you for your replies!

[cameron]

I don't think I understand the question.

From just reading some of the answers.
I think Elvis was very intelligent and gifted.

Every generation has their own music . It comes and goes.
The only music {?} I can say I didn't like was the "rap-hip-hop stuff that was popular for awhile.
Even my childrens "music" has become a thing of the past.

With much of Elvis' music; people can still relate and appreciate it today.

[President Presley]

The only time when I hear people calling Elvis dumb is when the discussion is about his drug abuse, he should've known better.

[Lonniebealestreet]

I think that Elvis was macho in some ways and part of him tried to be more macho than he actually was, as it definitely comes across that he had a sensitive and even feminine side. (No need to read something into that which isn't there...we all have male and female traits.) I think that over the years the macho side somewhat won that battle as the personality sort of hardened and he became more detached and egocentric as a result of the enormous fame and drug use.

However I also get the impression that though there were some insensitive acts, in his last year of life he softened somewhat and the ego did not seem as prevalent. Some of the guys have described him as very childlike throughout his adult life in many ways (part of that famed dichotomy) and indicated that he seemed to become more that way in the final year or so. I think there is more humility and friendliness in evidence in his 1977 concerts and part of that may be a result of his being humbled by his physical appearance...though perhaps there is more to it than that.

I know the things I am talking about go beyond being 'macho' or not but I think these things are relevant.

Anyway, are machismo and intelligence mutually exclusive? I don't think so.

Did Elvis have an average brain? He himself said as much in King Creole to his father..."very average". Only kidding. I don't think he was average. He knew enough to know that there are a lot of things he did not know, and that speaks to a considerable degree of intelligence, I'd say, as does having a thirst for knowledge and a questioning nature in the first place. There were times when he said things that might make one think he was simple-minded as maybe he wasn't always the most well spoken person, but people with less than perfect grammar are not necessarily unwise. Not to mention that there were times when he sounded rather eloquent and intellectual, actually. There is a great interview from 1962, I believe, which probably many of you have at least heard in part. He was very candid and introspective and articulate. I think he comes across very well in that interview and people who think he was maybe not so intelligent would be pleasantly surprised if they heard it.

I don't know how sudden the shift has been to where it now seems old-fashioned to be an Elvis fan, but it's a shift nonetheless. I think part of that snobbery is due to the above mentioned misconception of Elvis not being much of an intellectual. His not having been a songwriter adds to this, in spite of his ability through emoting to give a song as much twist in meaning as a lyrical rewrite of the song could bring about. Mostly, in my opinion, it is a matter of failure in marketing. There is so much great Elvis music that most of the general public will never hear, which if they did, their impressions of Elvis would be changed forever. Maybe one day there will be a release of nothing but the best of the unknown songs, alternate and undubbed versions and live performances, maybe even including some off-color stuff, that would set the record straight about that man and his music.

Is that not the stuff to which we are most attracted? It is where his artistry really shines, where we see more of a human side, where we see him delighting in the music-making process and his creativity coming through, where his talents are in greatest evidence...mostly it is where the truth lies. There would be no looking down noses at him after such a release.

But alas, I am not Sony/BMG...

[Diane]

I agree with your whole post Lonnie. I think Elvis was above average intelligence but didn't have the opportunity to develop himself like normal people do. He did what he could all on his own which shows how much he wanted to learn as much as he could.

I think the MM were a bit on the rough side as most kids are that have had to grow up poor and struggling but nowhere near being what they call "hillbillies" and I think most had average intelligence except for a couple I won't mention as I'd have to run and duck.

Diane

[utmom2008]

I don't think I understand the question.

From just reading some of the answers.
I think Elvis was very intelligent and gifted.

Every generation has their own music . It comes and goes.
The only music {?} I can say I didn't like was the "rap-hip-hop stuff that was popular for awhile.
Even my childrens "music" has become a thing of the past.

With much of Elvis' music; people can still relate and appreciate it today.

Uh-oh Cameron...don't faint, but we have agreed again.

[Diane]

The big difference I see between Elvis and the guys he grew up with and let into his life was that he had a lot of ambition to become famous and take care of his family so they would never have to struggle again.

The MM on the other hand were content to ride on his coattails and share in all that Elvis' fame brought. I'm not saying they didn't work hard, they just had no ambition to go off and do anything solely on their own. One thing they wouldn't share in was his need to learn as much as he could from his books, they were content to play so they may have been as intelligent but had no motivation to better themselves as Elvis had.

Diane

[EnigmaticSun]

Hey everybody!

First of all, I'd like to thank the members for these nice replies. It's not that easy to answer each and every sentence, but I do appreciate the feedback.

I've especially enjoyed reading Lonnie B's comments - very insightful indeed.

A part of Elvis' image may indeed due to marketing and promotion. In a lot of cases (other artists as well) marketing is such that a male artist needs to be portrayed as macho and tough in order to sell - it supposedly brings in the cash sooner.

In some cases, one might conclude Elvis was a smooth-talking guy who'd just come up to a girl and kiss without warning. Is that the real Elvis?

If Elvis was ever a macho, it was not the kind of macho I couldn't stand. There are people who'd act as though they're not taking another person seriously. The attitude seems to be: "I'm invulnerable, tough, 100% male and please cut the sensitive bullshit wailing.. Cork it up" - this does seem like a dumb attitude to me.

Another thing I've noticed during my time on earth is an "I'm disgusted by your weakness"-kind of mentality. To make a long story short: never did I have the impression Elvis treated another person as though he was the cool one and the other the dork.

I suppose that explaining the phenomenon "macho" would call for a careful definition of the word. By any means, being attractive, charismatic or good at anything wouldn't necessarily imply being "dumb" or "macho" to me.

I don't know if people would ever consider me macho, though I often can't help being noticed in public - not even when I deliberately try not to be noticed. I guess that some would say I'm gay and not fit to be "macho" for that reason, LOL - the ladies like me anyway. I don't think I'd kiss so many ladies in the crowd though.

For better or for worse, I still have the impression Elvis had the habit of acting/thinking self-depreciating. If this was part of him, it might be as inseparable as supposedly being sinful was to Johnny Cash.

[SleepyJack]

I don`t think it is of much use to judge or evaluate anybody by the amount of information they can hold in their heads or how blessed they have been by good education....at the end of the day we are judged by our contribution to the world that we lived in,and by the amount of love and happiness that was brought into being by our ever having been here........on that score I reckon Elvis did quite well in his time on earth!.............I`d rather have a voice like his than a big ol` head full o` brains any day!

[EnigmaticSun]

at the end of the day we are judged by our contribution to the world that we lived in, and by the amount of love and happiness that was brought into being by our ever having been here....

Whatever people may say about Elvis, it's certainly not my opinion that Elvis was dumb. I was trying to motivate other Elvis fans to disprove this nonsense. It may help to have an answer in case people say something stupid.

Neither did I intend to imply that a macho person would have an average brain. The title of this topic was just to combine two common misconceptions about our man - by any means it did draw attention.

And ehh.. Lonnie B. said "I'm not Sony/BMG".. Well, he ain't Priscilla either.