Are the MM still friends?

[jak]

I'm not saying anything about Sonny & Red....I was saying about Lamar. You sort of proved my point by your last sentence, in regards to Lamar. He was under Elvis thumb? I don't think so, he was a grown man, able to make his own decisions, the same arguments people use to bring Elvis and his character down can also be applied to those men around him, if hairs are going to be split. Lamar, if things were sooo horrid could have left at any time, and had he, he prob. would not be alive today, Elvis paid for a surgery that saved his life, boy talk about abusive.
Lamar waited until after Elvis death because he could have been sued for the exact reason you stated in your very last sentence, nobody else has made the claims he has, not Sonny, not Red, nobody but Lamar.

Nobody had disputed Lamar.That includes Billy also.They all were under Elvis thumb to some degree.Elvis was like a puppetmaster with those guys dancing on strings.As Billy Smith has stated"You didnt tell Elvis anything,he told you and if you didnt like it he said find the door".To think those guys were not controlled by Elvis is somewhat foolish.Red and Sonny were dumped when they didnt stay out of Elvis' business and didnt follow the rules.
Jak

[Getlo]

, in regards to Lamar. He was under Elvis thumb? I don't think so, he was a grown man, able to make his own decisions.

Of course Lamar was under Elvis' thumb.

He was a weak man, bullied all his life for his size, and found security with Elvis and the MM.

Lamar was Elvis' punching bag: Elvis treated him like crap a lot of the time, but he came back for more. Elvis even had to pay to get him laid, in Germany.

If you watch the TTWII and On Tour outtakes, you can see Lamar's crest fall every time Elvis big noted himself by publicly making fun of Lamar. There's a point in every relationship where that sort of behaviour needs to stop, and Elvis often took it too far.

The On Tour outtake where Elvis pours a glass of water over Lamar despite Lamar seriously and honestly asking Elvis not to embarrass him is particulary sad. I don't like Elvis Presley at that moment.

Lamar probably should have said something, but maybe he was scared of being perceived as a wuss for saying his feelings were hurt? Besides, where else was he going to go?

[Suzan]

Of course Lamar was under Elvis' thumb.

He was a weak man, bullied all his life for his size, and found security with Elvis and the MM.

Lamar was Elvis' punching bag: Elvis treated him like crap a lot of the time, but he came back for more. Elvis even had to pay to get him laid, in Germany.

If you watch the TTWII and On Tour outtakes, you can see Lamar's crest fall every time Elvis big noted himself by publicly making fun of Lamar. There's a point in every relationship where that sort of behaviour needs to stop, and Elvis often took it too far.

The On Tour outtake where Elvis pours a glass of water over Lamar despite Lamar seriously and honestly asking Elvis not to embarrass him is particulary sad. I don't like Elvis Presley at that moment.

Lamar probably should have said something, but maybe he was scared of being perceived as a wuss for saying his feelings were hurt? Besides, where else was he going to go?

That's one of my previous points, they stayed because they liked the lifestyle, what Elvis could get for them or give them, the prestige.
He CHOSE to stay, and snippets of film do not make the whole picture, I still say Elvis did more good for Lamar then bad, if Elvis didn't care, then he would not have paid for Lamar's surgery and stayed on the phone w/the operating staff until the surgery was over to make sure that Lamar pulled through and everything was fine. And that glass of water, the scene I remember is Joe and Sonny sitting at the table w/Lamar and joking w/Elvis onstage and Elvis thru the glass of water at all of them, I don't recall Lamar asking him to not embarass him?????

I have nothing against the MM, I don't...I just don't happen to like one of them, I've stated my opinion as to why...other's like him, that's fine.

[jak]

Of course Lamar was under Elvis' thumb.

He was a weak man, bullied all his life for his size, and found security with Elvis and the MM.

Lamar was Elvis' punching bag: Elvis treated him like crap a lot of the time, but he came back for more. Elvis even had to pay to get him laid, in Germany.

If you watch the TTWII and On Tour outtakes, you can see Lamar's crest fall every time Elvis big noted himself by publicly making fun of Lamar. There's a point in every relationship where that sort of behaviour needs to stop, and Elvis often took it too far.

The On Tour outtake where Elvis pours a glass of water over Lamar despite Lamar seriously and honestly asking Elvis not to embarrass him is particulary sad. I don't like Elvis Presley at that moment.

Lamar probably should have said something, but maybe he was scared of being perceived as a wuss for saying his feelings were hurt? Besides, where else was he going to go?

Lamar was probably under the thumb more than anyone.Youre right about those outtakes.I felt bad for Lamar when Elvis soaked him.I guess the drying off with the towel was a little apology.Not a nice moment.I believe Jerry calls him fatty when they walk away.Elvis was a good guy but he treated all of them like crap at times.He called all the shots.Anybody that thinks he wasnt the supreme ruler of that entourage is kidding themselves.
Jak

[jak]

That's one of my previous points, they stayed because they liked the lifestyle, what Elvis could get for them or give them, the prestige.
He CHOSE to stay, and snippets of film do not make the whole picture, I still say Elvis did more good for Lamar then bad, if Elvis didn't care, then he would not have paid for Lamar's surgery and stayed on the phone w/the operating staff until the surgery was over to make sure that Lamar pulled through and everything was fine. And that glass of water, the scene I remember is Joe and Sonny sitting at the table w/Lamar and joking w/Elvis onstage and Elvis thru the glass of water at all of them, I don't recall Lamar asking him to not embarass him?????

I have nothing against the MM, I don't...I just don't happen to like one of them, I've stated my opinion as to why...other's like him, that's fine.

Nobody is saying Elvis didnt care for Lamar or the others.In spite of that they all had to kiss Elvis' rear end.That's the way it was.
You obviously have not seen the outtakes from On Tour Getlo mentioned.I have them.Lamar pleads with Elvis not to dump a glass of water on him.Elvis acts like he isnt but of course he does it anyways in front of the group.Elvis being a total jerk caught on film.Elvis does take a towel however and drys his face off.Jerry calls him fatty right after that.Uncomfortable to watch.
Jak

[Getlo]

if Elvis didn't care, then he would not have paid for Lamar's surgery.

I'm not saying Elvis didn't care for Lamar. He loved him, obviously.

But there were times when, like the classic alpha male of any group, that Elvis used Lamar as a metaphorical punching bag. Not pleasant.

[Getlo]

.Elvis does take a towel however and drys his face off.Jerry calls him fatty right after that.Uncomfortable to watch.

Yeah, and when Lamar gets upset, everyone yells "Awwwwwwwww" like they're making fun of a six-year-old kid.

As I said, not one of my favourite Elvis Presley moments ... although he looks so cool in that footage!

[jak]

Yeah, and when lamar gets upset, everyone yells "Awwwwwwwww" like they're making fun of a six-year-old kid.

As I said, not one of my favourite Elvis Presley moments ... although he looks so cool in that footage!

That footage offers an incredible look into Elvis' private world.If Lamar had done the same thing to Elvis he probably would have gotten stomped.You hit the nail on the head by calling Elvis the alpha male of that bunch.I bet some of the people here wouldnt believe how Elvis behaved behind closed doors.Those guys were all a bunch of arrogant,cocky,macho women chasers.As much as I love Elvis I bet the real guy wasnt as likable as most think.I'd bet the farm the real Elvis would surprise some people.Im sure he had his moments.
Jak

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

"The Image is one thing, the human being is another" hits the nail on the head too, I don't think Elvis was inherently a bad person, I suppose he pulled all kind of stunts to test how far he could go. the fact that he could get away with it proves how weak some of these people could be. I bet Elvis would never try a stunt like that with Red or Sonny or some of the other guys?

As with most top celebrities, the fact no-one tells them 'NO' changes these people and when they haven't heard anyone say no for 20 odd years that person will think they can do almost anything!

and to keep this thread a little on topic

The guys were probably happy when Elvis' mischievous behaviour wasn't focused on them!

[jak]

"The Image is one thing, the human being is another" hits the nail on the head too, I don't think Elvis was inherently a bad person, I suppose he pulled all kind of stunts to test how far he could go. the fact that he could get away with it proves how weak some of these people could be. I bet Elvis would never try a stunt like that with Red or Sonny or some of the other guys"

Good point.I just wonder if he ever tested the others like that.I have my doubts.Im sure he never would have taken that.
Jak

[Donut]

I always have had the impression that Lamar is a sensible hurt guy trying to act tough. Elvis had many really good qualities and I´m sure he loved Lamar but being the target of all the jokes from him and the guys must have been tiring and hurtful and his bad mouth toward Elvis nowadays seem like a consecuence of that to me.
The thing is they all wanted to stay and Elvis wanted all them around, they knew each other much better than us know them so they shouldn´t be so bad... this including Elvis.

[cameron]

From what I've read ,by all of them. They loved cutting up and playing tricks on each other. From what some have said, it's what they did to have fun. I've seen my boys get pretty rough playing .
I never took it as intentionally hurting anyone.

[Alessia]

That's one of my previous points, they stayed because they liked the lifestyle, what Elvis could get for them or give them, the prestige.
He CHOSE to stay ...

Exactly. I've seen it said around here many times that Elvis was responsible for himself and his bad choices, and I agree. If Lamar felt he was mistreated by Elvis, then he should have left and found another job. If any of the MM thought Elvis treated them badly, then they should have had the self-respect to leave and get another job. Elvis had no hold over any of them, couldn't make them hang around with him, and isn't responsible for them staying with him. The MM are as responsible for any choices they made as Elvis is for the choices he made.

As with most top celebrities, the fact no-one tells them 'NO' changes these people and when they haven't heard anyone say no for 20 odd years that person will think they can do almost anything!

Which is why Bruce Springsteen said one thing he'd learned from Elvis' life is that a celebrity has to try and stay in the real world a bit and avoid getting isolated. I think he was right about that (and hasn't done a bad job living a relatively normal life for a multimillionaire rock star).

[cameron]

I agree Alessia . Thanks for your post.

[Suzan]

I'm not saying Elvis didn't care for Lamar. He loved him, obviously.

But there were times when, like the classic alpha male of any group, that Elvis used Lamar as a metaphorical punching bag. Not pleasant.

Ok I see what your saying, again thank you for explaining it so that I understand your standpoint! Your very good at that!

Ok in that case, then reluctantly allbeit, but I do agree.

And no I'm not familiar w/the footage you referenced, I was going off of what I saw in TTWII rehearsals onstage.

I'm thinking I may not want to see this footage????? Anyway, yes Elvis did have a mean streak in him, we all do, but again I dont think as prelevent as snippets of film would have us think and honestly? I think the other's were a lot more cruel then Elvis.

But anyhow, everyone has their perception of events, life is just one huge perception I think, lol, and two people can be in the exact same situation and both will walk away w/a completely different version.

[Lion]

They are all under the influence of Elvis still, - who is very much a part of their lives. I think as the years go, they all want to emphasize their own importance in Elvis´ life, as his "best friend"... Also some of them are on speaking terms, some not...

[Getlo]

And that glass of water, the scene I remember is Joe and Sonny sitting at the table w/Lamar and joking w/Elvis onstage and Elvis thru the glass of water at all of them, I don't recall Lamar asking him to not embarass him?????

No, that's the scene in TTWII. I'm talking about one of the On Tour outtakes from 1972. It's not commercially available.

[Burning_Love]

I hope they are

[KPM]

Lamar was probably under the thumb more than anyone.Youre right about those outtakes.I felt bad for Lamar when Elvis soaked him.I guess the drying off with the towel was a little apology.Not a nice moment.I believe Jerry calls him fatty when they walk away.Elvis was a good guy but he treated all of them like crap at times.He called all the shots.Anybody that thinks he wasnt the supreme ruler of that entourage is kidding themselves. Jak

Who else could be supreme ruler of that entourage? I say it again IMO friends as employees is never a good thing. A regular employee would not get water thrown on him and humiliated in public-without a lawsuit. This was a viscious circle in my opinion which did not serve Elvis or the MM well. IMO His respect for them had to drop year after year. Their respect for him had to drop year after year. IMO By the mid 70s instead of being good friends or good employees- you had this mixture which was neither.

[Getlo]

Litte bit of information about the book here.

ELVIS: HOW YOU DOING MAN?

RED: I JUST WOKE UP.

...

Elvis: Take it easy.

Red: Bye-bye.

I've listened to this taped conversation four times since I last posted about it.

I'm going to go out on a limb here - and, again, I'll bet my entire Elvis collection! - but ...

... that is not Elvis Presley speaking on the tape!

I'm not saying Red never recorded a conversation between him and Elvis, but this certainly isn't it.

I know Elvis' speaking voice almost as well as I know my own ... and it's not him!

Anyone else think so?

Have a listen here: http://jordans-elvis-world.com/audio/red/redphone.htm