Reply With QuoteWell said Jak,
I've noticed how every thread concerning the people close to Elvis descends into an arguement.Im talking about Priscilla,ex girlfriends,Col and the MM.You have two camps.One tries to understand the people that were around Elvis.The other pretty much despises all of them with Priscilla being the focal point.If the fans who dismiss all those people are correct it can only bring you to one conclusion.Elvis must have been the biggest sucker there ever was.Gullible to the extreme.According to many fans he was just taken advantage by every one around him and he was to dumd to figure it out.His personal situation must have been a pathetic joke with people laughing at him behind his back.
I prefer another view of Elvis.I think he was surrounded by people who we cannot possibly identify with.We have no idea what it must have been like.I would like to think many are just misjudged out of biased thinking based on zero merit.I want to believe Elvis had the ability to surround himself with people that wanted to be there for him.I hope he got married for all the right reasons and it made him happy for a period.I hope the friends he chose were right at the time.Who are we to question his judgement?Elvis certainly deserved anything good that came his way.Im tired of Elvis being portrayed as a dunce when it came to his personal life choices.I think more of him than that.
Jak
Well said Jak,
Well said Jak. As Elvis said: Walk a mile in my shoesIn other words, we don't know what is must have been like to be Elvis. I mean his background, the pressure of being a star etc. Who are we to judge. Elvis could see through people, as Jerry Schelling once said. I respect Elvis and the choices he made in his life.
"Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet!".
Groucho Marx
Well said ! But we like to voice our opinions; Right or wrong. I try not to get into an argument --> It's really not my thing and i have only been a fan since 2005. I think we should be allowed to say our opinions, and no one else comment. Like Question, but not be soo nasty. We all have our own judgement on Elvis. It's only normal.
But you made a lot of sense right there..thanks
No it doesn't. God, you're such an *****!!!Originally Posted by jak
Seriously, interesting post.
You're right about the two camps thing though: the "Elvis did nothing wrong, anyone who said anything negative about him should rot in hell" camp, as opposed to the "Elvis was responsible for his own destiny, we weren't there so we won't presume to judge other people's actions" camp.
I'll be interested to see how the people from the "Elvis was practically a saint" group respond to your intriguing postulation that, because he surrounded himself with all these "sellouts" and "money grubbers" he must have therefore ben a sap.
Your idea makes one think. Nice one.
You got some points. But the problem I have is that many EP fans are blaming and accusing the wrong ones. For instance-the Mafia is well known for publicly blasting EP and degrading him. They are also well known for playing the "I was there so my story is end all of stories" type of card. They have also publicly criticized and attacked both Lisa and Priscilla. You think EP would accept that? HELL NO! But for some reason they are the most liked and sadly they are the ones EP fans seem to believe the most. That is really sad.
Gee Jak, that's a toughy and impossible for me anyway to answer with absolute conviction.
My feeling is that Elvis was neither a sap nor do I think he knew everything everyone was up to or completely controlled everyone around him. I think he was very naive at first and still retained some of that in some ways throughout his life but learned to control the people around him to a point and that's all as no matter how much money or power a person can wield, things are going to be said and done behind their back.
Diane
Of course Elvis wasn?t the biggest sucker there ever, but he could be a big one some times, just as everyhuman being is, just as all of us are once in a while.
Anyhow, live its not just black or white, good or bad, enlighted or a total sap, things are more complicated than that, your going too far by painting the situations just as two imposible options: a) to believe people around him were all a bunch of money grabbers and Elvis live was nothing but a pathetic joke were everybody was laughin at his back, b) to believe he was this guy with paranormal powers that "could see trough people eyes" and surrounded himself only with the right people, the ones he wisely choose acording to a master plan, that if it shows bad results its only to gave us a lesson, you know, that Elvis, he was smarter than Buddha.
I agree with you about some fans going to far in their statments agains Pricilla or the Memphis Mafia, and I do understand your position about Elvis, we cannot baby him, and saw him only as a victim, cause that?s reducting him as a total *****, and thats unreal, but I must do disagree if you?re going as far as stating were no one to question his judgement and total incompetens to understand the circumstans and we should resignate to live in a kind of happy go lucky view of shiny Elvis, well I belive that is as wrong as can be the other pole your critizicing.
Who am I to question Elvis judgment? well I am another humang being, and as one, I do can question the judgment and live path of any human being in history as well as I can learn from its goals and failures, knowing my view is subjetive, just as Elvis situation was subjetive as much as not always know we was choosing or not the right people to hang out, as much as we can hardly know if were making the right decition.
Last edited by Raised on Rock; 08-17-2007 at 06:34 PM.
elvis wasnt a wuss after all the way i see it is he gave his money to people who were lesser than him to charities,people in the streets whoever he felt DESERVED a little he gave to.be so maybe he thought everyone around him was lesser than him maybe he was the one laughing behind there backs after all what they probabily wanted they could never have and that was him as a person his voice or the millions of people who love him and still love him.
or he really knew the meaning of unconditional love,not just the word itself,and,was capable of loving people in spite of,and also knew one can't choose and pick people from shelves in stores..this is about his life philosophy much more than the people's quality who was around him..oh! pardon me again I shouldn't think he could be so good..just ignore,gullible me..
lol nicely put
quote -I think he was surrounded by people who we cannot possibly identify with.We have no idea what it must have been like.
I'll go a step farther and play devils advocate:
He was surrounded by people who could not possibly identify with him.
Who had no idea what it must have been like to be him.
I admit these people were in a unique tough situation and it was not in many ways an easy life. But how can anyone say that the pressure on them (for what ever reasons) was greater than on Elvis himself who was the center of it all. The part that troubles me is that many want accept every word they say and then add -you can't understand the situation they were in. Well lets also at least give passing lip service to the truth that they -nor we- can ever know or identify with what it was like to be him. Good, bad, or indifferent it all swirled around him.
I truely believe with heartfelt conviction the statement- please bare with me I know I 've quoted this before:
"No man is an island"
That is true for Elvis and everyone who surrounded him. I believe its true for you and me. Let me go further, even an island sitting in the middle of the ocean is not safe from outside forces which do have an effect on it. Hurricaines, earthquakes, people who visit and trash it up or people who visit and plant new flowers. Sometimes there are things which you have no control over which have a huge bearing on your life.
Also each of these guys and Elvis had his own quirks, or inner problems which have an affect on the persons they became.. I know I've got them and they have had a profound effect me. If you don't you are one of the lucky few. Some are small some are huge-it depends upon that persons own inner being-who knows why we each have our inner problems? What made Elvis who he was. IMO his childhood, his heritage and the sudden fame all contributed to who he was.(good and bad) Now he could not control his childhood-he definitely could not control his heritage-and he had some (but not total) control over the sudden fame and its aftermath.
[U]I do not see him as a sap! I do not see him as a man that had all the answers.[B] I do not know a man who has all the answers. [/B][/U] I also do not see the MM, or whomever has written about him, as mustache twirling villains. Neither do I think they have all the answers and are always 100% forthcoming. IMO There were things in Elvis's life that the MM had no control over. But there were times when there actions did not help the situation- it added to it. I think most of them loved him and he loved most of them. The train of thought that Elvis was to blame for everything which happened to him is one I do not accept, not because its Elvis but because I believe it about every persons life. Things happen by friends, foes, and fate which have an effect on peoples lives. Its my opinion if yours is different no problem here.
Often said in the middle of posts here and there and lost in the shuffle but you had the guts to make it a main post and I think its a good one.
besides,they were in a position of quitting their tough jobs,but Elvis wasn't..
I agree that Elvis was a bit naive because he grew up in enormous poverty. He did value friendship and he wasn't judgemental. He seemed to be overly loyal to friends and loved ones, and he took his relationships seriously. I don't think he was a "sap" but I do think he was too forgiving. He was easily influenced by those around him, although he did have strong feelings of his own... In other words, he was a complex person who had strenghs and weaknesses, as we all do. I don't think he can easily be categorized.
No man is an island..... I used that quote in another thread and it sure does apply here too KPM - it does for Elvis and for everyone on this planet. No one is in complete control of their lives or destiny. There are always outside influences from other people, events happening, you name it and they all play a part in shaping our lives.
Any action we or someone else takes or any word can have a powerful effect on our lives and we may never know it.
Diane
I agree with you jak and I think that?s insulting Elvis too.
I don?t blame him for everything that happened in his life either first of all because it?s easy to say what it would have been the best for him to do because we talk with the advantage of knowing the past and present. And second because it was his life and he could live it the way he wanted, chose the friends he wanted to have, and get involved with all the women he wanted to be with. But I?d like to see some people on Elvis call 24/7 (along with the good part ) and if they are willing to do it with their friends in real life . Sounds very nice to say you never stood in Elvis shoes and try to understand him and I agree but that have to go both ways. You can?t play the good christian or whatever you think you are and not practice the same understanding toward the others around him you practice with Elvis. That?s hipocrisy or whatever it?s spelled.
_________________
"I agree with you jak and I think that?s insulting Elvis too"
That's my main point.Why cant some of the fans have a little faith in Elvis' judgement?Could it be that the tragic way he left us caused many to ignore Elvis' own shortcomings and seek out scapegoats?I think so.What happened to Elvis over the last few years was painfull to see.Many fans want to blame somebody for it even at the expense of the truth.I can think of many people around Elvis that I personally have no use for.On the other hand I would certainly hate to think that the majority of the people around him were just users.I believe Elvis was fighting with his own inner demons for years and he finally lost the battle.I would hate to think that during that time he surrounded himself with a worthless group of people.Isnt that a depressing thought?I think that over the years people's emotions have warped and twisted the truth of Elvis' final years to a certain degree.
Jak
It is a depressing thought Jak that Elvis surrounded himself with a bunch of worthless people. I don't think they all were.
I think one way you can find who really cared for him is to ask yourself if Elvis had said ok, we're all going to stop taking the pills - who do you think would have stopped being an enabler and stopped taking them to help him kick his addiction? For some reason, Red is one I think would have.
Diane
Good point!or he really knew the meaning of unconditional love,not just the word itself,and,was capable of loving people in spite of,and also knew one can't choose and pick people from shelves in stores..this is about his life philosophy much more than the people's quality who was around him..oh! pardon me again I shouldn't think he could be so good..just ignore,gullible me..
I wonder...[B][I]
I'll be interested to see how the people from the "Elvis was practically a saint" group respond to your intriguing postulation that, because he surrounded himself with all these "sellouts" and "money grubbers" he must have therefore ben a sap.
Your idea makes one think. Nice one.Since some have probably catagorized ME as being in the "Elvis was practically a saint" group, I have but one question...
Have you ever sat down and actually counted the "money grubbers", most of whom were so-called friends, that have emerged since Elvis' death??
Seems to be pretty self-explanatory to me....
I find it disturbing that people think that anything like this can be so black or white. To me, there are many grey area's. For example...Colonel Parker. Who can honestly say that they think that he ALWAYS had Elvis' best interest in mind?? Is that black and white also??? Does he fall into the "money grubber" category?
How about the MM??? Did Elvis not feel betrayed by the book that was published before his death? And, do you not believe that it came as a direct result of anger, for having been fired???
I could go on and on and on...but why???
The bottom line for me is that Elvis made some decisions, and some were made for him. Whether you believe that or not, it is true. He did not have full control over his life, not in every aspect. Elvis knew that a lot of people depended on him, financially speaking, and that kept his hands tied in a lot of ways. There is a saying..."every action causes a reaction"... Could it be possible that Elvis felt as if his life had gotten so out of control, that he chose to control it in his own way...? By hiding out in his room for days at a time...taking meds to the point of addiction, perhaps?...ect, ect, ect.
This is a life. A wonderful life in some ways, and yet, a controlled environment too. I feel sorry for Elvis, because he was such a private person, and yet so many who were close to him have CHOSEN to disclose his life in THEIR words. Let us not forget that Elvis cannot defend himself now. Which apparently is causing some of his fans to be catagorized as an "Elvis was practically a saint" group...because we choose NOT to believe every single thing that was written or said about him...which is unfair. I do not think he was a saint, with no wrongs, or no flaws of his own. That would be ignorant. I do however feel that each and every person, past or present, has flaws. And that allows me to believe that yes, some of the people around him were there because of what he could do for THEM. How well they disguised that intention would be the answer to the "Was Elvis a Sap" question. I think it's safe to say that perhaps all of us have at one time or another been taken advantage of by someone we trusted or cared for. Would that make us all "saps"...?I don't think so. It just makes us human. And being human means that we are all subject to fall prey to those who are deceitful.
Just my opinion...hope no one is offended...
Daddy, I miss you more every day. You will always be my hero..
Posting Permissions
