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Thread: Interesting Quotes on Elvis's Vocal ability

  1. #61
    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    it IS a strange world

    Such a dualistic and dogmatic inquire seems irrational and brutal to me.

    At least you're now throwing some anger in my direction, which means I must have said something worthwhile. The best thing for many is to deny without argumentation. Anyway you look at it, I won't lower myself to your level calling you whimsical or immature.

    Whatever you say or whatever the extent of your anger, I'll continue to be dogmatic in your eyes. At least the "Catholic" Hitler knew that the strength of christianity was the unalterableness of it's Dogma's. Dogma still is the magic word and object of hate, I see!

    To continue about Hitler: he didn't like skycrapers, even though they are all over the world, especially noticeable in the anglo-sax world. The rest of the world only followed because of it's imperial rule. A skyscraper is simply not a temple or a cathedrale and the difference is set by the intent of it's architect.

    Intention is something you notice in music too, though some ego-oriented people may say that it's just pure technical skill - it is not. You will never win the hearts of your crowd just by playing more or faster, which is a fundamental problem in heavy metal, blues and jazz - this is not even a statement about these styles in general.

    There is blues and jazz I do appreciate (heavy metal I don't seem to grasp)! Did you know the classical composer Shostakovich wrote a lot of jazz-pieces? In other words: whereas classical education may help you to understand or learn jazz or the blues with greater ease, jazz or blues alone won't help you to learn the art of fugue, for example.

    Classical music, if composed by the right intention, is a fundament for all music - so I don't mean degenerated music such as Sch?nberg or Stockhausen, where the aim to create something pretty is completely gone. Yes, I'd prefer "Do the clam" over Stockhausen's creations, though it's just a cute song for a movie and nothing more.

    Jazz is sometimes nice, but in a lot of cases noise or trash. Jazz music and it's importance are way overrated and a disease; though (like I've said before) I do like some of it, it's rather complementary than fundamental - notice how some people in Jailhouse Rock mention that some composer has gone "completely overboard" with all those altered chords and that they expect jazz music to eventually come back to good old Dixieland. There's no soul or heart in degenerated music. I'll prove I can make and understand jazz music sometime, just as I'll be able to create a grand symphony.

    If you've found my comments regarding God or mammon to be dogmatic or dualistic, please blame our Lord Jesus Christ for having given me that information (there is a choice for hard work/virtue, both in life and in art)! By all means, stop misquoting me (saying things I have never stated), such as "questioning being human or not by being able to read Bach".

    Comments regarding mr. Yamashita are based on my personal opinion (like I have said before), the same way Michael Schumacher is the most complete Formula 1 Race Driver I've ever seen driving. Whatever you feel on these subjects, I won't change my mind but grant you the freedom to feel or think otherwise.

    All in all, mr. Yamashita was born in Nagasaki, so I think he has got a clue of human suffering. Although it has been said it's better not to trust atomic energy to the Russians (Chernobil), the Anglo-sax liberators always know how and what they want to destroy instead of causing accidents due to sloppy maintenance.
    Last edited by EnigmaticSun; 09-25-2007 at 11:09 AM. Reason: minor error
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  2. #62

    .

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    At least you're now throwing some anger into my direction, ... I won't change my mind but grant you the freedom to feel or think otherwise.
    What has any of this post got to do with Elvis' vocal ability ... or with anything at all?
    Getlo - cute'n'cuddly

  3. #63
    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    view on music

    Quote Originally Posted by Getlo View Post
    What has any of this post got to do with Elvis' vocal ability ... or with anything at all?
    Honey, it's just a text explaining my view on music, explaining why I do like the majority of Elvis' work, but not Stockhausen, for example. And you should be consequent and question the remarks concerning my immaturity. Alexander the Great had to cope with similar things.
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    all the goons I left behind, memories still linger..

  4. #64

    .

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    Honey, it's just a text explaining my view on music, explaining why I do like the majority of Elvis' work, but not Stockhausen, for example. And you should be consequent and question the remarks concerning my immaturity. Alexander the Great had to cope with similar things.

    You are one seriously sick unit ...
    Getlo - cute'n'cuddly

  5. #65
    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    hug

    Thanks! A very sick and dangerous man indeed.. Oooh..!
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getlo View Post
    You are one seriously sick unit ...
    Theres no need for calling people sick.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by presley31 View Post
    Theres no need for calling people sick.
    Just as there's no need for anyone to expound, in arrogant, insecure patter, for paragraphs and paragraphs on their personal dogma that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Someone needs a gigantic cup of STFU and some Focus Factor.

    Part of what makes Elvis so great, IMO, is that he's hard to explain. How do you describe what a voice does to you, why it catches your ear?

    I always, always find the technical descriptions and quotes fascinating. I couldn't break down music technically if I tried, but I enjoy the analysis. Elvis is just very personal to people, whatever his range or training.

    Interesting topic, though, let's stick to it.

  8. #68
    TCB Mafia Raised on Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    At least you're now throwing some anger in my direction, which means I must have said something worthwhile. The best thing for many is to deny without argumentation. Anyway you look at it, I won't lower myself to your level calling you whimsical or immature..
    You have lowered your self enough by refering to some of the people around this forum as people with no culture, and you lower others with coments like the next one:

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    At least the "Catholic" Hitler knew that the strength of christianity was the unalterableness of it's Dogma's. Dogma still is the magic word and object of hate, I see!.
    I belive it was Hitlers fatal mistake to rely on dogmatism as dogmatic thougth lowered him to the non rational brutality of his very mistaken actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    Intention is something you notice in music too, though some ego-oriented people may say that it's just pure technical skill - it is not. You will never win the hearts of your crowd just by playing more or faster, which is a fundamental problem in heavy metal, blues and jazz - this is not even a statement about these styles in general.
    You are right on this: ego oriented people can?t make music, just a technical skill, this is a fundamental problem in Heavy Metal, you right again, but it is only a fundamental problem in Jazz and Blues when classicaly trained musicians avoid looking into the roots and own musical tradition of the Blues and Jazz stuff and aproached them only via their theoretic knowledge and musical skills, not saying with this that all classicaly trained musicians fall into this mistake, as there are countless classicaly trained musicians that are great Jazz players too.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    There is blues and jazz I do appreciate (heavy metal I don't seem to grasp)! Did you know the classical composer Shostakovich wrote a lot of jazz-pieces? In other words: whereas classical education may help you to understand or learn jazz or the blues with greater ease, jazz or blues alone won't help you to learn the art of fugue, for example.
    Right! Jazz or Blues by them selves won?t teach you at all the art of fuge cause they had nothing to do with that, just as classical music by it self won?t teach the art of Jazz or BLues playing cause they are not in their cannons.

    Diferent music traditions are there to complement themselves, to make you a greater musician, but there is a big mistake if you look down into a diferent tradition.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    Classical music, if composed by the right intention, is a fundament for all music - so I don't mean degenerated music such as Sch?nberg or Stockhausen, where the aim to create something pretty is completely gone. Yes, I'd prefer "Do the clam" over Stockhausen's creations, though it's just a cute song for a movie and nothing more.
    By the right intention trough the eyes of which standars? the aim to create something pretty? that how you define art boy? anyhow, the so called right intention may be present in any form of music as there is also crap in the classical field.

    You do prefer Do The Clam than Stckhausen?s work, well I can?t expect anything but that from someone who defines art as the aim of creating something pretty. Anyway, we are the ones with no culture and resisting to it.

    We are going out of topic here, but I?ll be glad to continue this discution about what is art at the Off Topic forum here at TCB world if you are up to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    Jazz is sometimes nice, but in a lot of cases noise or trash. Jazz music and it's importance are way overrated and a disease; though (like I've said before) I do like some of it, it's rather conplementary than fundamental - notice how some people in Jailhouse Rock mention that some composer has gone "completely overboard" with all those altered chords and that they expect jazz music to eventually come back to good old Dixieland. There's no soul or heart in degenerated music. I'll prove I can make and understand jazz music sometime, just as I'll be able to create a grand symphony.
    True there are loads of crap in the Jazz world, and even much more crap in the mouth of its critics, so? same as in the classical world. But it is the amount of genuine art on both worlds what made them stand as great music.

    If Jazz its complementary for you as a musician or whatever you are that?s fine, but it is not complementary in terms of modern popular music history at all, and that?s a fact.

    If you are about to write some great music all the best from me to you, but if you are doing it just to prove something, well wouldn?t that be kind of ego-centred and rather degenerated?


    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    If you've found my comments regarding God or mammon to be dogmatic or dualistic, please blame our Lord Jesus Christ for having given me that information (there is a choice for hard work/virtue, both in life and in art)! By all means, stop misquoting me (saying things I have never stated), such as "questioning being human or not by being able to read Bach".
    I think Jesuscrist is the last one in the history of cristianism to be blamed for its dogmatic ways and the barbarity that springs from that.

    Once again were going off topic and by all means I invite you to start a thread on this matters in the off topic forum around here, or as personal messages, as I don?t intend to ofend you, but to have a dialogue, one that you seem to take as: anger? typical simptom of a dogmatic mind.


    [QUOTE=EnigmaticSun;141748]Comments regarding mr. Yamashita are based on my personal opinion (like I have said before), the same way Michael Schumacher is the most complete Formula 1 Race Driver I've ever seen driving. Whatever you feel on these subjects, I won't change my mind but grant you the freedom to feel or think otherwise.QUOTE]

    You should read much more carefully as no one here has denyed Yamashita skills and great art, as no one has deny you the freedom to think however you feel about to him, but to claim him "The Greatest Guitar Player in the World" its an ilogical claim as there is no such thing, won?t explain you for the third time why, and its a claim that its a direct attack to the freedom of others as it is an asertion directed to look down to other musicians with no fundament.

    P.S. I don?t hate cause as we may disagree you are ofering arguments, now you don?t hate me as I write my arguments back.

  9. #69
    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    The trouble for Hitler was corruption, military expansion, betrayal and people around him saying "I love you, I think you're great and to me you're like God's representation on earth".

    Jesus did say there is a choice for God or the mammon and I think Elvis made the right choice on the whole, because there's so much to be thankful for. Compared to Stockhausen "Do The Clam" is enjoyable indeed. Man, there was a time when visual artists put their feces in a can and called that "art" - to make a long story short, art conveys beauty and/or emotion and you need to do your best for it.

    I don't think that classical music is practically meaningless and jazz is almost everything. My wish to create jazz-music sometime is not an ego-project to deify myself, it is out of love for music and to prove I certainly don't categorically hate jazz.

    After hearing and seeing mr. Yamashita, I found it to be the most amazing technique I had ever seen - that combined with his integrity and passion made me say that.

    All in all, the thing I enjoy the most is Elvis' music and I'm sure he would have appreciated my take on things without having a fight with words.

    If we shouldn't go on here, let the moderators replace it.
    Last edited by EnigmaticSun; 09-25-2007 at 12:13 PM. Reason: minor error
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  10. #70
    TCB Mafia Raised on Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaticSun View Post
    The trouble for Hitler was corruption, military expansion, betrayal and people around him saying "I love you, I think you're great and to me you're like God's representation on earth".

    Jesus did say there is a choice for God or the mammon and I think Elvis made the right choice on the whole, because there's so much to be thankful for. I don't think that classical music is practically meaningless and jazz is almost everything. My wish to create jazz-music sometime is not an ego-project to deify myself, it is out of love for music and to prove I certainly don't categorically hate jazz.

    After hearing and seeing mr. Yamashita, I found it to be the most amazing technique I had ever seen - that combined with his integrity and passion made me say that.

    All in all, the thing I enjoy the most is Elvis' music and I'm sure he would have appreciated my take on things without having a fight with words.

    If we shouldn't go on here, let the moderators replace it.
    No, the root of the touble with Hitler relys in the inconcistence of his premises, this due to the dogmatic thought of his ideology. Or are you suggesting now that he was the victim now? not responsable for his actions?

    Jesus did said that, wrong interpretations of that in history are not to blame him.

    From your perspective, Elvis served mammon through 28 hollywood movies?

    No one has ever stated here that classical music its meaningless and Jazz its almots everything, you seem to just not get it, same with the Yamashita issue! Crist no one is attackin you! just try to lisen please!

    So sad that you consider all this as a fight with words as I really hoped to continue discusing this issues about art and religion in the off topic forum or in personal messages. In fact I did appreciate your take on things but to appreciate doesn?t mean I will agree, but that I appreciate as we both may see some light in these issues as we can mantain an open dialgue, one that other may also follow, one that you are not up to it anyway and I respect that.

    I won?t go further either in this conversation as now we are totally off topic, but I gladly continue if you will in the off topic forum.

    Have a nice day!
    Last edited by Raised on Rock; 09-25-2007 at 02:11 PM.

  11. #71
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    Not sure how hilter has to do with elvis???

  12. #72
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    A few more opinions on Elvis's vocal talent:
    "He got even more maturity in his voice as he got older; I was often amazed at his range, just as one singer listening to another. He could sing anything. I've never seen such a versality, and in fact I don't see it today. Usually a voice can sing one way, but he had that ability about him, and he helped me to learn the importance of communication with an audience. He had such great soul. He had the ability to make everyone in the audience think that he was singing directly to them. He just had a way with communication that was totally unique" - Gospel tenor Shawn Nielsen, who backed Presley`s recordings both with the "Imperials" and with the group "Voice", at the studio and in concert, from the late sixties until Presley's death in 1977


    "Presley brought an excitement to singing, in part because rock and roll was greeted as his invention, but for other reasons not so widely reflected on: Elvis Presley had the most beautiful singing voice of any human being on earth."
    - William F. Buckley, Jr.,
    in his article "The Crooner, R.I.P.: Perry Como and the casual mode," published by the National Review on June 11, 2001.


    "He would probably be considered a baritone, but he could reach notes that most baritone singers could not. Much of his abilities emanated from a very intense desire to execute a song as he wanted to do it, which meant that he really sang higher than he would normally be able to. When the adrenalin is going, and the song is really pumping, you can get into that mode where you can actually do things, vocally, that you couldn?t normally do. So he had a tremendous range because of his desire to excel and be better, and that?s why he could do a lot of things that most people couldn?t."
    - Terry Blackwood,
    lead singer of the Gospel group, the "Imperials"

    question-"whose was the greatest voice you had ever heard"
    "The young Elvis Presley, without any doubt."
    that was top New Zealand opera star and soprano Kiri Te Kanawa's answer to UK show-host Michael Parkinson
    (who probably expected her to name Luciano Pavarotti, or Maria Callas
    ), (as published in Blabbermouth.net, 3 January 2007)


    "People will often say that opera singers sound too stiff and operatic when singing contemporary music. This is because the vowels in an operatic style tend to be more open, whereas in a rock style singers tend to thin out the vowel. There is nothing wrong, and everything right, in opening the vowel in the higher register so that the higher notes can be sustained. Elvis Presley was very open in his singing style even though he was 'the' rock and roller."
    - Brain Gilbertson, world-famous voice teacher.

  13. #73
    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    Now to go on mainly about Elvis' talent, I'd have to say I think he didn't sound stiff at all, neither while singing "Unchained Melody", nor while singing "the Hawaiian Wedding Song" (crooning) or "Reconsider Baby" (blues). I think Elvis explored a lot of things and kept that which worked for him.

    To make something clear: I certainly don't like every voice they consider "classical" or "operatic". I've heard better female voices than Callas' and better male voices than Pavarotti's.

    This is an Elvis board, so no effort goes too far explaining why Elvis is the greatest or the only - I think he is special and irreplaceable, but there have been other great talented artists as well. Every specific message board probably goes on to say their person is the best and that's okay with me.

    I've already given some reasons to compare Elvis to Hitler. They are both key 20th century figures who just won't die, really - very manifest in people's minds. "Dogma" to me isn't so much unquestioned belief, rather absolute truth - but like Pontius Pilatus has said, "what is truth"?

    Hitler wanted political infallibleness, the same way other people give spiritual infallibleness to the pope, communist infallibleness to Karl Marx, and people here give musical or iconic infallibleness to Elvis - this is something others make out of you. Now don't get angry with me for this, I don't mean to do anything to Elvis' iconic status.

    I don't judge people who make some wrong artistic choices, but looking at the way some people trash his material from the 1960's, I think I'm pretty mild. I don't think the scenes from "Clambake" with all those girls have proven to be really satisfying - I do think Elvis must have felt being "caught" every now and then (you'll hate one and love the other) and somehow not able to do and explore everything he could according to his impressive talent and potential.

    I've always felt him to be the more human because of his "flaws" (I wouldn't consider it that way, vocally) - the way he intially struggled to get the final note for "Surrender" right. He had some difficulties nailing "Danny Boy", for instance, and with some help this would have been even easier for him - on top of that, it would have given him more spiritual wealth and a lot of pleasure. I think this impossibility is to a great extent due to his environment.

    I'll stand by my opinion and do not force others to agree - I have never said that.
    Last edited by EnigmaticSun; 09-27-2007 at 08:13 AM. Reason: minor error
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  14. #74
    TCB Mafia KPM's Avatar
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    Anytime someone is the first of anything-they will be considered special.
    If that person has true talent and chrisma even more special. Elvis sold rock and roll to the world. He was the first huge world wide rock star.
    Elvis is not the greatest opera singer. Elvis is not the greatest blues singer.
    Elvis is not the greatest country singer. But he did have all those in him when the time and feeling were right. He was unique in that his talent could at times be all those things. A musical chameleon if you will. Can anyone name someone else like that before Elvis?

  15. #75
    TCB Mafia EnigmaticSun's Avatar
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    I suppose some things are inexplicable or beyond our rational abilities. I think that rationality without feeling is death.

    I agree that Elvis was special, a person with something that hadn't been seen before. In popular music, I haven't seen another with that versatility. I do think there have been other artists/musicians with impressive talents/abilities, people who could get a melody out of almost any instrument, for example. It's neither fair nor relevant comparing Elvis to Mozart.

    I've never considered him to be rock 'n roll or popular American. I think I've got Elvis the man in mind, not so much Elvis the image. I wouldn't want to keep others from attributing Elvis' kingship, though this is just as ungraspable as the greatest guitar player, so you might as well conclude that being the King is just as dogmatic - but who cares?

    Though the fall of the Third Reich is not to be explained by dogma's, but by the vastness of Russian territory (whereas England would be easy to force to it's knees in case of a one-sided war - see Napoleon) and American money which stopped rolling in, people probably need kings (charismatic people) and absolute truth.

    I think a country isn't a country without a king or queen, so that's why Americans have been subconsciously looking for one. Some still struggle finding the right balance, I often notice slander and messianic importance on the same message board.
    Last edited by EnigmaticSun; 10-01-2007 at 05:24 AM. Reason: minor error
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