Reply With QuoteLet's not go overboard here ....Originally Posted by The King's Queen
Who would that be??
Getlo - cute'n'cuddly
Let's not go overboard here ....
Getlo - cute'n'cuddly
Sorry, Clawdy, but I must disagree.He was a genius
Elvis was a wonderfully instinctual singer, yes, and a great interpretor of songs in a varied range of stylings.
He understood his type of music at almost a gutteral level. But a musical genius?
No. There have only been a handful of those throughout history, and Elvis Presley was not one of them.
And he'd be the first to agree with me ...
Getlo - cute'n'cuddly
I don't quite agree with you, honey. I do think Elvis wasn't short of raw talent to be a genius. If Elvis wasn't among popular American musicians, no one is or was.
If he had the chance to play violin, piano and the organ, combined with singing lessons and (European; Catholic or Lutheran) church music from the age of 4, he would have been able to do some special things for sure.
Not that it's healthy for a child, since it's fair to say Mozart's dad killed him, even from beyond the grave.
Elvis wouldn't be considered an instrumentalistic virtuoso, but I don't think it was due to a lack of talent so to say.
Last edited by EnigmaticSun; 09-19-2007 at 12:57 PM. Reason: minor error
all the goons I left behind,
memories still linger..
Disagreeing with me is absolutely fine, but please do not refer to me as 'honey' ...
Getlo - cute'n'cuddly
Sorry, I must have mistaken you for the school lady in King Creole.Disagreeing with me is absolutely fine, but please do not refer to me as 'honey' ...
Last edited by EnigmaticSun; 09-19-2007 at 01:00 PM. Reason: minor error
all the goons I left behind,
memories still linger..
He was absolutely a musical genius. If he wasn't a genius, I sure would like to know who was. The man is in 4 hall of fames for music, could sing any genre of music brilliantly, and was for the most part, in charge of all his studio work as far as how the songs would go. It was he who produced his recordings, that's enough for me.
Well said.
The only thing that sometimes bothers me are the overdubs and such. But I don't know whether or not he could have done something to avoid it. I know I wouldn't accept that.
And he could have had a more balanced sound on stage - especially concerning Kathy and the Sweet Inspirations. I think a good musical ear notices that.
Last edited by EnigmaticSun; 09-19-2007 at 02:56 PM. Reason: minor error
all the goons I left behind,
memories still linger..
Getlo, you are right, he was no genius, he was even much more than that!
I am no music expert, I can only judge what I hear. And what I hear when I listen to Elvis never ceases to amaze me... Elvis could open his mouth and sing completely effortless any genre of music! He oversteps the 'genius mark' by singing his song
And yes he would probably agree with you being no genius.
Well, I just try to find the balance between these two: putting someone down or attributing Messianic proportions.
all the goons I left behind,
memories still linger..
Me too, Joe!
I will never forget you Rosanne.
R.I.P. 4-27-59~7-22-09
Charlie Hodge claimed in his book "Me and Elvis" that he taught Elvis to do mouth and tongue exercises to enrich and broaden his vocal capabilities similar to the "do re mi" exercises given by voice teachers. So he did have some training, just not from what we think of as professional.
Aside from his incredible voice he was one of not that many people who could pick up any instrument and play it.
He was extremely talented musically. He not only sang on stage, moved and gave directions to his musicians and background singers all at the same time. I don't know any other performer who's done that.
Diane
1) I didn't attack anyone personally.
2) I do not lack argumentation, I just prefer not to drone or ramble on a forum and would rather keep answers short.
3) I agree on the underlined quotes above.
This is my last post on the subject. I just agree to disagree with you on some things.
...you're moving on the back roads, by the rivers of my memory and for hours you're just gentle on my mind.
I took it to be personal, because you 'touched' my Japanese guitar hero. All in all, I'm certain to restore the axis Berlin-Rome-Tokyo to it's former glory and mr. Yamashita is part of that.1) I didn't attack anyone personally.
2) I do not lack argumentation, I just prefer not to drone or ramble on a forum and would rather keep answers short.
3) I agree on the underlined quotes above.
This is my last post on the subject. I just agree to disagree with you on some things.
I found your argumentation to be insufficient, because you don't appreciate mr. Yamashita by not knowing who he is.
But I'm sure there are some things we agree upon. I don't want to fight you.
Well Diane, Elvis could pick up almost anything, the way I can. But no one would be able to play it like a virtuoso without musical training (you would be able to get a simple melody out of something). Elvis was a nice guitar player, but with some help he could have done even more. This would be considered constructive advice.
The things Diane describes are part of classical, professional (what ever) singing classes. I have that information/experience from my husband who used to work with hard working people in church music.
I don't think Elvis was the only soul ever to achieve something special, but he won't be forgotten and there's no Elvis but Elvis.
Last edited by EnigmaticSun; 09-21-2007 at 03:25 PM. Reason: minor error
all the goons I left behind,
memories still linger..
Chet Atkins was self taught, and he played classical pieces on his albums. He also played 2 songs at one time on the same guitar on one album. But he was dedicated from an early age to the guitar.
those quotes are all fancy musical jargon for "awesome voice"
I've got those hup, two, three, four, occupation G.I. Blues, From my G.I. hair to the heels of my G.I. shoes
Around '73 Elvis was having obvious trouble with his voice, as I read in another thread here, he did recived some advice from a singing coach to solve his vocal problems out. No, we are not talking here about formal lessons.
You are right, classical training won?t diminish your feeling for the blues, it definetively may help you to develope as a richer artist, but only if you already know how to play/sing the blues. Classical training by itself won?t teach you how to do it by itself, Bill Evans as an example, had a degree in classical piano performance, and he was good enough to build a career in that field, yet he choosed Jazz as his mayor way of expression, and that, as told by himself, was world apart from the classical field, and learned his way to become one of the mayor JAzz pianist the Jazz way, gig by gig, oral transmition, sure enough, his classical training give him the tools to learn all this fast and it was his love for modern classical composers what lead him to latter on revolutionize Jazz its self.
As I said before in this thread, each genere has his own teaching tradition, no, that doesn?t means that picking tools from diferent forms of music will expand your technique and understanding of music and lead you to came up with something new, sure enough, that?s what Elvis did isn?t it? But that doesn?t mean you can belong only to one tradition, like Blues or any other folk music standings and became a tracendent artist without ever recieving any classical training. Thelonious Monk didn?t had any classical training yet, he also, as Evans, took Jazz to another degree.
Many classical artists had recognized they can?t play the blues, neither jazz, and that in order to do that, they would have to enrole into Jazz training, just they way you are suggesting Elvis needed classical training if he wanted to go opera.
Cool.
No you don?t need to be an African American who lived in the missisipi delta during the depression years to be able to play the blues, but in order to be able to play it right, you got to suck on the blues own musical tradition. Other way you might be able do something interesting, something new, which its fantastic, no doubt Yamashita revamp on folk songs are great, but when I told you that you can?t compare B.B. King with Yamashita cause they belong to total diferent cultural contexts, I meant, as I said, that there is no such thing as the greatest guitar player in the world, each one is good on their own field, to state that Yamashita is better than B.B. King cause he is a classical trained musician is as retarded as to state you need to be African American to play the blues, as it implies, King needed to suck on Bach guitar works to be albe to play a great blues? duh.
Mr. Yamashita its amazinlgy great, but not the greatest guitar player in the world, as there is simply not such a thing.
Such a dualistic and dogmatic inquire seems irrational and brutal to me. There is both great stuff and a lot of crap in any musical genere. Its not about the genere, its about the artist and the song. Well there is even both crap and greatnes on a single artist, Mr. Presley being a good example, so maybe, as Elvis put it, its just according the song.
On thing its personal taste, neither I like House, Heavy Metal and Hip Hop, but to state that they are noise just for the sake of noise its simply being short minded, geniuine creative art can be found in any form.
Noise for the sake of noise, yes you can do art with that, and if you put it in a deprecative way, well, that?s more or less what they say of Elvis in the early days. Sure enough, latter on he did just that, I mean, Do the Clam?
"Horrible modern paintings, you people don?t have any culture", WOW, what guy we have found here isn?t it? What is next, questioning if someone is human or not based on his abilities to read Bach? lucky me anyhow, I would love to pass through that test again, although I?ll rather remain as a blues animal king.
You won?t blindly mistake a movie character for the real Elvis but will took a character you do like to make it pass in your whimsical inner life as the real Elvis?
Sure Elvis was quite fond of culture, thats why he embraced all kind of musical generes, and never came up with such arrogant and rather ignorant comments as the ones you sometimes pour out. But I guess its just part of growing up, you?ll be fine.
Despite your prejudice yes-men comment, you are right on this one, ELvis surely needed to expand his musical knowledge in order to satisfied his artistic needs, we all know it, he needed to be chalenged. Yes, classical training could have been an interesting option for him, It did worked out for McCartney, but that doesn?t mean it would definetively will worked for Elvis as his musical roots were somewhere else.
About the initial comment and back to the topic, Elvis indeed had the vocal range and qualities, as well as the talent to be an opera singer if he had make up his mind about that, and recieving the proper training of course, but although he loved opera, I don?t believe his aim was to be an opera singer at all, sure enough he could have recieved a benefit from that training, but in order to use that knowledge into something else, to suddenly aproach an opera career in '77 is going to far and not the best bet.
In my opinion, if we are talking about Elvis expanding his musical limits, I believe it was the song writing field what could have eased and fullfiled more his artistic needs. But in the end it was getting straight of his drug habit, get a healthy life style, and just being Elvis, the true one, that?s what he needed.
And you also have to have experienced the blues yourself, eg lost love, grief etc. You cannot truly appreciate the blues until you've gone out and lived life a bit, and experienced them first hand.
Once you do, you actually hear familiar blues music slightly differently.
That's why I get the shits with half of these so-called "blues" bands fronted by white guys straight out of a "Gap" catalogue singing about "pickin' cotton down on the Delta"!
On that note, may I recommend the movie Ghost World: Steve Buscemi's character Seymour strugles with the same dilemma.
Getlo - cute'n'cuddly
Elvis was very instictive and had an incredibly keen ear for voice, melody, harmony and instrumentation.
As for receiving vocal techniques, it's widely known that Elvis had trouble completing the ending to the brilliant #1 record, SURRENDER.
Frustrated, Elvis and Ray Walker, of The Jordanaires, sang and practiced together the ending note together in the bathroom at the studio.
Elvis asked "... but how ? "
Ray exclaimed, "pretend your throwing up ... "
RCA used most of the Master Take 4, then spliced on work part Take 8.
Viola, the rest is history !
Listen to the incredible outtakes and work parts of this song on the excellent and essential HIS HAND IN MINE FTD released earlier this year.
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