Reply With Quote...or would the masters no longer exist in uncompressed form?
Or am I wrong to think this album was one that got the compression treatment?
I am no expert and I know it!
When 6363 Sunset came out, I was particularly impressed with the Today material, both in the overall clarity of sound and in the impressive vocal performance from Elvis.
The first take of T-R-O-U-B-L-E was really rocking, superior to the master in my opinion except for a couple minor vocal miscues. Overall the vocal was much better, I thought. Something I couldn't quite put my finger on about the master made it less appealing to me.
Then in A Life In Music: The Complete Recording Sessions of Elvis Presley, Ernst said of Fairytale that Elvis had difficulty controlling his high notes. I wonder if he was referring to the master take of the song or previous attempts which I have not heard.
I do have a point here.
Really, every single song from Today sounded better to me on 6363. At first I thought, well, it's just much clearer--Elvis's vocal is more up front and there are no overdubs (those two things sort of go hand in hand). But listening to the masters as heard on Yesterday/Today--whether they are true undubbed masters or just have some channels removed--did not sound better in the intangible way I was wanting them to. So I thought perhaps the overall sound on 6363 simply benefited so much from superior technology.
But I just re-read an excerpt from an interview with Ernst from a couple years ago. In it, he said, in part:
...techniques that Felton used that I don't like personally. One of them is compression on the lead vocal which makes it, to me, flat and nasal. Dennis came up with--I brought the problem to Dennis--I think the voice must be better than what we hear on the record. We spend a lot of time figuring out why it was. It seems that when they mixed back then, they put a compressor on Elvis' voice and then when they did the finish master, they compressed that as well. This is why the sound on what Dennis and I do is a lot more open, but also you need to play it louder. The reason for compression at that time was that it had to jump out at the radio.
Wow, double compression on Elvis's voice! Now I knew that compression was utilized on a lot of Elvis's recordings, but this paragraph still struck me as revelatory.
Would Ernst have thought better of Elvis's vocal on Fairytale if he had known this when he wrote that in his book (assuming he didn't then--he may well have)? It certainly made me think less of it, although I do really like the Today album.
I really would love to hear the Today album completely re-done. I already thought that and have said so elsewhere, but I especially do now! Being deleted from BMG's catalogue makes it a contender for an upgrade on FTD. I know there are not a lot of unused takes left in the can to be used as bonus tracks. I wouldn't mind some undubbed masters in cases where there are no alternates. The Tiger Man jam would of course be included. But the main thing would be that the original album could be much improved. Granted it would not be in keeping with the intent to be faithful to the original album's EQ on these reissues as had been stated, but they have already strayed from that.
The main thing is that Elvis's music deserves the best treatment possible.
...you won't forget me when I go.
...or would the masters no longer exist in uncompressed form?
Or am I wrong to think this album was one that got the compression treatment?
I am no expert and I know it!
...you won't forget me when I go.
Hey Buddy:
I agree that Elvis' music deserves the best treatment possible!!
Which leads me to my question....does ANYONE know exactly why RCA compressed Elvis' recordings, and what they thought they gained in compressing his vocals?
Apparently, from Bobby's assessment, as I understand it (and listening to the outtakes from the TODAY album on 6363 SUNSET), by uncompressing Elvis' vocal, the sound quality is MUCH MUCH BETTER!!
So if that is the case, why was it compressed in the first place? Does anyone have any inside information on this....would love to learn more about this!
TCB!
Mike
R.I.P. Tommy
We will miss you dearest friend
Somebody call in the pros!
...you won't forget me when I go.
Great post Bobby.
I love that album and would welcome a release of it on the ftd label.
Thanks, Andrew. It might be a while, but we should get that one at some point.
...you won't forget me when I go.
Bobby,
Great story...but don't you think that on the "6363" cd, there's a little to much background noise?
I'm no expert on this, just thought i ask you. :idea:
Stereo '57
Hmm. By that do you mean incidental noise (microphone cords, chairs, etc.) that if it were a less clear recording and if it had the normal overdubs, would likely not be heard?
I don't recall noticing things like that which were really distracting, but then I might have been too blown away by how good I thought Elvis sounded to pick up on such things. If they were incidental background things like I was saying, then I probably dismissed them in my mind since these were after all, unreleased performances. Perhaps the things you heard are the reason why they weren't used.
Now, if you are talking about the '72 tracks, a couple of them were subpar in that they had a lot of hiss. But I thought they '75 material was truly great.
...you won't forget me when I go.
Then again, those 72 versions do have some hiss, but they are absolutely great versions!
Turn up the volume and listen to Big Hunk f.i. Terrific!
I agree on those 75 songs. Even if there is some background noise, they still sound a whole lot better than the released versions.
On the other hand: don't we just think they are so much better (like many other unreleased versions) because we were allready so familiar with the "older" versions?
This doesn't go for TROUBLE though. The 6363 version is the best! Too bad Felton cuts it short at the end, cause by that time it almost started sounding like a jam session.
Sonny
I think often that does influence our thinking on that, but in the case of those Today songs on Sunset, I think I truly like them better!On the other hand: don't we just think they are so much better (like many other unreleased versions) because we were allready so familiar with the "older" versions?
But perhaps if the masters were brought up to par with these alternates, I wouldn't think that...which is why the album begs to be re-done!
In other words, maybe the master takes are in fact the best but don't come across that way to my ears.
...you won't forget me when I go.
Thanks for the info guys, love to read and learn about this stuff
without a song, a man ain't got a friend,
without a song, the road would never bend,
without a song, so I'll keep singing the song.
http://www.elvisfun.com/fun/htm/avat...s/64/10_64.gifhttp://www.elvisfun.com/fun/htm/avat...s/64/12_64.gifhttp://www.elvisfun.com/fun/htm/avat...s/64/30_64.gifhttp://www.elvisfun.com/fun/htm/avat...s/64/98_64.gif
Glad to hear it, Annie, but as for me, I'm asking more than I'm telling.
...you won't forget me when I go.
By the way, Sonny, I meant to comment on what you said about Big Hunk. It is great, and one that isn't so throwaway.
One other thing about 6363 that's kind of funny. At some point during those '72 rehearsals, Elvis said something about a list--maybe asking what's next on the list, or something like that, then I believe he said he didn't have a list. The next part I remember; he said, "I've got a list, but it's not of the songs." And you get the feeling he might have been referring to the women he was seeing at that time.
Then later on the CD during the '75 sessions, he goofs around with the names in Susan When She Tried and substitutes Peggy Fleming (ice skater) and Peggy Lipton (actress) for Peggy Harper, after which he says, "I got a whole new list, wait a minute!"
That was so weird because it was if the comment from '75 was made to follow up on what he had said 3 years prior. Of course that's not the case, but it's odd that they would end up only so many minutes apart on the same CD and seem to be part of the same train of thought, you know?
Although I guess it's possible that Elvis often referred to his "list." It struck me as funny though, because the first couple times I heard it I made the connection between the two comments but it didn't dawn on me that they were made so far apart.
I'm easily entertained.
...you won't forget me when I go.
Great topic Bobby
You realise with revelations like this how powerfull producers really are. Knowing how many albums are "badly" mixed before the went on sale, I get a nasty taste in my mouth when people are talking about re-releasing Elvis material, with the original EQ of the original LP and with the original editing. So what those people want is just a polished up version of an badly mixed album?
When people today see that a producer in the past made a bad decision on the editing and remixing, I support the remastering team on correcting those errors and improving the sound. The King only deserves the best!
The compressionstory is very old. The Beach Boys had a small speaker in the studio. After recording they played the tracks back on that little carspeaker and mixed it untill it sounded good on that speaker. They (Brian and co-producers) thought that it had to sound good on the smallest speakers, because those were the same that people had in their car or in their (bed)room. Making it sound good on the expensive speakers in the studio wasn't their target.
So I can imagine the "mistake" Felton made, but I cannot agree more on Ernst when he tries to correct that mistake to todays (high) standards.
"A year from now, you'll wish you had started today"
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Thanks, Albert.
Interesting objective there--to please the little speaker!
So I take it you too would support a remastered Today album? Please sign the petition. :wink:
...you won't forget me when I go.
Signed
I don't care about the original sound of a recording (mono/stereo, poorly/badly mixed), I just want the best sounding. If a record has once been badly recorded or mixed, i think it's time to repair it and work on a better sounding version. I really don't care for the historical value, just improve the sound
"A year from now, you'll wish you had started today"
Follow TCB-World on Twitter for website updates and Elvisnews: http://twitter.com/tcbworldcom
Elvis Today for an upgrade please, Ernst!
Here the same
without a song, a man ain't got a friend,
without a song, the road would never bend,
without a song, so I'll keep singing the song.
http://www.elvisfun.com/fun/htm/avat...s/64/10_64.gifhttp://www.elvisfun.com/fun/htm/avat...s/64/12_64.gifhttp://www.elvisfun.com/fun/htm/avat...s/64/30_64.gifhttp://www.elvisfun.com/fun/htm/avat...s/64/98_64.gif
A remastered Today album is very welcome!
LonnieB, I guess that list Elvis mentions actually was a running gag amongst those guys... You're right, it is funny to hear him mention it twice on one CD.
B.t.w. I didn't mention See See Rider.
I allready heard that 72 studio version on the Complete On Tour Sessions cd, but in in that nice 6363 sound quality I consider it a nice addition to the collection.
To finally hear a studio version of this typical 70's show opener came as a nice surprise to me the, even the first time I heard it (in so-so quality) on forementioned On Tour Sessions.
Sonny
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