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Thread: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

  1. #21
    International Level elvispresleytheking's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    Quote Originally Posted by navechesalpa View Post
    I dont like this jumpsuit.
    Why don't you?

  2. #22
    Elvis 56's Lady Wendy56's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    Quote Originally Posted by navechesalpa View Post
    I dont like this jumpsuit.
    Maybe because of the cape? Looks like a bit too much stones.
    Bue it's Elvis and he loooooks great with everything on.
    Let the stars fade and fall, and I won't care at all, as long as I have you.
    Elvis...

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    "You've got it all together like a lovin' machine
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  3. #23
    International Level elvispresleytheking's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wendy56 View Post
    Maybe because of the cape? Looks like a bit too much stones.
    Bue it's Elvis and he loooooks great with everything on.
    LOL everything but the V-Neck *sticks out tongue*

  4. #24
    I'm only Your elvia7's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)



    Ewa
    I'll Remember You!!!

  5. #25
    Coming On Strong Brad Stalnaker's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    from my Memphis Trip in October 2008
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Memphis 380.jpg   Memphis 381.jpg  

  6. #26
    I'm only Your elvia7's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Stalnaker View Post
    from my Memphis Trip in October 2008

    hank you friend for very important photo!!!!
    I'll Remember You!!!

  7. #27
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    Very good jumpsuit

  8. #28
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    Quote Originally Posted by elvia7 View Post


    Ewa
    Another great work

  9. #29
    Backstage Pass 1100ccRider's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    Hold on just one goldurned minute...

    I just noticed something: in the photos that show Elvis wearing the suit it obviously has yellow satin kickpleat godets and a yellow satin lining to the cape. The porthole inserts may also be yellow satin; hard to tell.

    BUT...on the suit displayed at Graceland it appears that the kickpleats have gold lamé inserts and, if I'm not mistaken, the cape also looks to be lined with lamé. The portholes, for sure, have lamé inserts.

    What's going on? Were there two very similar suits made? Doesn't seem likely, at that stage in Elvis' career. Was the original damaged or deteriorated such that some of the satin had to be replaced? If so, why not just use fresh yellow satin? Could the one at Graceland be a replica, just not a very careful one? Maybe, but it looks to have the IC Costumes label inside and that seems unlikely on a replica unless they thought nobody would notice or kick up a fuss.

    Anybody have a clue as to what the story is here?
    I'm a roving roustabout...

  10. #30
    TCB Mafia Teddy's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    Call the Jumpsuit Cops!!
    'Taking Care of Beaulieu'.

  11. #31
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    I've been wondering the same thing.

    The yellow satin kickpleat is stronger then lame gold. Therefore I don't think the lining was damaged and had to be replaced.
    I have done some tests to see if it is a lighting effect (flash or no flash or colour adjustment).
    The lame gold does turn a little more solid yellow if you turn up the saturation. But you have to turn it up that much that the normal colours would also be too saturated. Obviously that is not the case on the photos.

    Therefore this is an excellent question for the jumpsuit specialist or designers.
    I certainly would like to hear the reason for this difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1100ccRider View Post
    Hold on just one goldurned minute...

    I just noticed something: in the photos that show Elvis wearing the suit it obviously has yellow satin kickpleat godets and a yellow satin lining to the cape. The porthole inserts may also be yellow satin; hard to tell.

    BUT...on the suit displayed at Graceland it appears that the kickpleats have gold lamé inserts and, if I'm not mistaken, the cape also looks to be lined with lamé. The portholes, for sure, have lamé inserts.

    What's going on? Were there two very similar suits made? Doesn't seem likely, at that stage in Elvis' career. Was the original damaged or deteriorated such that some of the satin had to be replaced? If so, why not just use fresh yellow satin? Could the one at Graceland be a replica, just not a very careful one? Maybe, but it looks to have the IC Costumes label inside and that seems unlikely on a replica unless they thought nobody would notice or kick up a fuss.

    Anybody have a clue as to what the story is here?

  12. #32
    Coming On Strong thejumpsuitman's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    Quote Originally Posted by merry77 View Post
    I've been wondering the same thing.

    The yellow satin kickpleat is stronger then lame gold. Therefore I don't think the lining was damaged and had to be replaced.
    I have done some tests to see if it is a lighting effect (flash or no flash or colour adjustment).
    The lame gold does turn a little more solid yellow if you turn up the saturation. But you have to turn it up that much that the normal colours would also be too saturated. Obviously that is not the case on the photos.

    Therefore this is an excellent question for the jumpsuit specialist or designers.
    I certainly would like to hear the reason for this difference.
    Nothing but variation in lighting. It would have been ridiculously difficult to change out those pieces and the cape. Furthermore, satin would be much more durable than the lame. I have no doubt that it is all original.

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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    I've asked B&K. And they say that there were indeed two suits. One with gold lining and one with yellow lining.
    There is too much color difference for it to be one suit. I've tested that. No matter how much you change saturation or flash or no flash or exposure time gold lame never turns into yellow.

  14. #34
    Coming On Strong thejumpsuitman's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    I reject the premise that B & K is the end all authority on jumpsuits. They NEVER had any part in Elvis' costume design process and didn't start making jumpsuit copies until long after Elvis died. Yes, Gene Doucette was there and part of it... But we are talking about nearly 40 years ago! Is his memory that good? My Dad sure doesn't remember many specifics from 1971! And was Gene part of the process of making every single suit and nobody else? Was he Bill Belew's only employee? I personally won't believe there are two suits untiil someone can come forward with the second suit.

    As for the Butterfly, the ONLY discernible pictures of Elvis in this suit are the posed pictures! The originals may have either have been touched up for clear reproduction or faded or washed out by the flash bulbs when they were taken. Anybody remember cube flash bulbs? For those of you who don't, flash bulbs could be a very harsh and uncontrollable lighting source, especilly against bright subjects. And that cape was sure bright against the black suit!... Or if you want another theory, maybe he lost or tossed the original cape and needed a replacement. Who knows?... The point is NOBODY really knows except for the person who might be possessing the fabled second suit.
    Last edited by thejumpsuitman; 03-09-2010 at 12:01 PM. Reason: Thought better of my rant... LOL

  15. #35
    Backstage Pass 1100ccRider's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    Quote Originally Posted by merry77 View Post
    I've asked B&K. And they say that there were indeed two suits. One with gold lining and one with yellow lining.
    There is too much color difference for it to be one suit. I've tested that. No matter how much you change saturation or flash or no flash or exposure time gold lame never turns into yellow.
    This makes sense to me in that there is absolutely no way a lamé lining can be confused with a satin lining, even in monochrome photos and even in such photos from imperfect sources (old newspapers, etc). Too many facets reflecting light with the lamé, that crinkles with the slightest persuasion. Besides, a flash strong enough to somehow dull the detail of a metallic lining would likely totally wash out Elvis' face (pretty pale, at this time) when what we see in the posed tryout pictures from January '72 are Elvis' skin tones perfectly exposed.

    The idea of two suits doesn't make much sense, though, in that I don't think Elvis was having duplicate suits made at this point and he had a few new ones for the start of 1972, making it less than obvious why he'd want two of the same design (that he, apparently, never wore outside Vegas). My thought that someone replaced the satin also makes little sense in that satin is far more durable and if it DID happen to be on the original then why not use it on the repaired version? Ditto with creating a duplicate for which someone would have had to go so far as to add an original (transplanted) or replica IC Costumes tag.

    Nope, it still seems to me like we're looking at two different suits, though why this should be so still puzzles me.

    Quote Originally Posted by thejumpsuitman View Post
    I reject the premise that B & K is the end all authority on jumpsuits. They NEVER had any part in Elvis' costume design process and didn't start making jumpsuit copies until long after Elvis died.
    Agreed. I have also been engaged in building a few jumpsuits and, like you, I use my own observation as the primary source of intelligence on what the studding patterns were. I look at as many photos as I can find (sometimes running into a bit of a dead-end when it's a suit for which there's not complete coverage) and go from there. I don't know about B&K's claim that they have the original patterns; maybe they do for the embroidered suits,or perhaps some of the later stone-heavy suits, but from what I've seen of the suits I make my own work is more accurate than B&K's by a long shot. To name but a few, their porthole suit has the flat round studs distributed in a more straightforward way that's obvious as wrong with one glance at a photo of Elvis in the original suit. Ditto the Philly/Spectrum 'nail' suit (1st Snowflake, or whatever you want to call it), that's wrong in almost all details on the torso and arms. Same with the Tiffany suit, at least at the back. And the gold pyramid suit, certainly on the cape (which is entirely wrong). I think even the basic Matador/pinwheel suits, but I'm not sure about those...and they're pretty basic. To add to the fun, if you set out to make your own by using kits from jumpsuitsupply.com, you'll find that they're also wrong; in fact, it looks to me like they copy their patterns directly from B&K examples...I've told them so, too, and pointed out the easily correctable errors, but apparently they don't give a flying Fike.

    Quote Originally Posted by thejumpsuitman View Post
    Or if you want another theory, maybe he lost or tossed the original cape and needed a replacement. Who knows?... The point is NOBODY really knows except for the person who might be possessing the fabled second suit.
    A second suit sounds far-fetched, but what is in the pictures from '72 and what is at Graceland seem different suits. Yeah, the inserts in the portholes are too small to be able to tell, for sure, but the old cape lining (yes, maybe he DID lose it) looks to be satin and even in the photo of Elvis on stage in this suit the kickpleat inserts look more like satin than lamé (admittedly, they're distant and small but, still, lamé would likely reflect more or, at the very least, look more the color of Elvis' gold belt).

    Quite obviously, this ranks alongside the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa and certain other unsolved cases as one of the great mysteries of our time...
    Last edited by 1100ccRider; 03-22-2010 at 04:23 AM. Reason: typo
    I'm a roving roustabout...

  16. #36
    Too Much Monkey Business Jumpsuit Junkie's Avatar
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    The simple answer is, it isn't beyond EPE to replicate and display a fake Jumpsuit! it isn't beyond the realms of possibility there were two made, one rejected because it either didn't fit or some other flaw, the second made and worn but with alterations??

    The question then is who has the original, Elvis could have given it away? IC Costumes may have had it? Who knows.....

  17. #37
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)


    I am somewhat of a jumpsuit maven. I wondered about just such a question, If the pictures of Elvis wearing the BLACK BUTTERFLY, the jumpsuit obviously has Yellow or Gold Satin Kick pleat lining, Yellow or Gold Satin Cape lining, and Yellow or Gold Satin grommet lining. I asked B&K that very question in an email, and if I can just set the record straight. ELVIS only had one BLACK BUTTERFLY jumpsuit and cape. He is pictured in the YELLOW/GOLD Satin Lined jumpsuit, however, the one on display at Graceland has GOLD LAME' as the lining. B&K replied as such: ELVIS only had the one jumpsuit made, he tried it on for formal pictures taken in his suite at the Hilton Hotel in Las Vegas, he then performed one concert in the jumpsuit. He was going to wear it a second time, however while putting it on, he got his foot caught in the pant leg and it tore the YELLOW/GOLD satin. At the time the I.C. Costume Company that made all of the jumpsuits, were all out of the YELLOW/GOLD satin, so they replaced all of the lining with GOLD LAME'.
    Hope this clears up any mis-communications.

    Thanks,
    Gary


    Thankya, Thankyaverymuch
    Garyelvisstuart

  18. #38
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    hmm weird. I asked B&K about half a year ago and they replied that Elvis had two suits, one gold lame and one yellow satin. Also it is very hard to replace all of the satin for lame. It means all the grommets, cape inside lining, even the satin cuffs on the sleeves.
    Never heard that story about tearing the pant leg.

  19. #39
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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    This is to merry77 - It was very rare that I.C. Costume Company of Los Angeles, California ever made doubles of Elvis' jumpsuits. The only times, that my research into the Jumpsuit World of Elvis Presley, that they made multiple jumpsuits were: THE ALOHA jumpsuit. Because of the logistics of doing a live television show, they made a back-up for the one that he wore. He wore one for the rehearsal show on January 12, 1973 @8:30pm Hawaii Time, and he wore the back-up for the actual broadcast on January 14, 1973 @12:30am Hawaii Time. They originally made the Calf length Cape for the suit, but when Elvis tried it on on January 9, 1973 it was too long and he kept tripping over it and even fell on stage while trying to use it, they immediately had the hip length cape made, and shipped to Hawaii so that it would arrive in time for January 12, 1973. They actually worked two straight days to get the cape done and shipped (they actually bought an airplane seat for the cape).
    The only other know jumpsuit that was a multiple was the "COLOR FLAME," embroidered. The only thing that was different about them was that one had a YELLOW Kick Pleat, and the other one had an ORANGE Kick Pleat. The Yellow Kick Pleat was never worn on stage as it was too tight for Elvis, so again I.C. Costume Co. had to rush out another one to him, The Orange Kick Pleat is the only one worn on stage.
    According to jumpsuit designer Gene Doucette, due to misinformation, there was only one (1) MEXICAN SUNDIAL made. It was made in 1974, worn in 1974 and then worn agin in 1976 through the end of Elvis' career.
    Through all of my extensive research, I have only been able to find that only one (1) BLACK BUTTERFLY was ever made, shipped, and worn by Elvis in 1972.

    If I uncover any other and future information I will pass it along.

    Thanks for letting me inform the masses.


    Thankya, Thankyaverymuch
    Garyelvisstuart

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    Re: Black Butterfly aka Black Pyramid Jumpsuit (1972)

    You are right that two suits also don't make sense. It is a fact though that the photos with Elvis have yellow satin lining (both showcase photo and live photo) and that the suit now on display has gold lame lining.
    I wish I could see the archive information of Graceland. I know they have everything catalogued, but not for display to fans.
    Indeed the most likely explanation seems to be that Graceland bought a second suit with gold lame. But who made it? And where is the original?
    I wish someone would ask Gene personally.

    What about the rumour that there are three chain suits? I think Leroy mentioned that.

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