Arabian II (King Of Spades)

I have been having a discussion with Vulcan Dude regarding the Arabian Jumpsuit, Mr. V. Dude has had information from an employee from Graceland that the Arabian was NOT worn in 1974 and only came into being from 1976!

I on the other hand am not convinced that this is the case and want to open up the discussion in a thread so that others who may have images or information can piece together a better picture.

The information I have is that Elvis wore thie Arabian (King of Spades) in 1974 in Lake Tohoe on the 12th October, this information is pretty widespread accross the internet on many sites, this you might say is not proof, and you would be right. However there are Images that are claimed to be from this show which i think you will agree are quite compelling when you compare them to other pictures from 1974, even if you consider that Elvis in 1976/77 could have had good days his weight and looks were different in this latter period.

Other things to consider are the fact that Elvis is using the Black Gibson Ebony J200 guitar in the pictures of the 1974 below, Elvis stopped using this guitar in 1975...... in 1976-1977 Elvis used the Martin D35 and D38

The Arabian Mark 2 had.... you guessed it an Arabian Mark 1 better known as the Memphis Jumpsuit. Made.... you guessed it 1974 (see attached)

The other pictures I have included are from Nov 1976 and Feb 1977 if you look at these pictures they certainly don't look like the ones from 1974 even taking into consideration a certain look or stance. I realise that Elvis could look different from one day to the next but the sideburns don't even look close to the same as 1976/77.

Over the years I have collected thousands of photographs of Elvis in concert from 1969-1977 and would consider myself a pretty good judge of time periods, I would suggest there are people out there would could give dates and venues to pictures on sight..... whats you opionion?

Did Elvis wear the Arabian in 1974?

Matt

I would like to jump in immediatley. First of all to state I am completely at JJ's side in this matter. About two years ago JJ asked me if I would like to join him on his site. He wanted me to provide him with my jumpsuit drawings and background information. And I happily did so. First of all I was caught by his dedication but more than anything else hiw willingness to stay open for different sources of information. JJ is not the kind of person who takes everything for granted and so am I. We've found common ground here. Working together with JJ also sharpened my skills and so you could say we help each other.

Now for the suit. JJ has already layed down the rough lines for it. I would like to get into detail here. At the end of 1973 (during his August/September season in Las Vegas) Elvis started to wear a suit that was not exactly a well thought-of design. It was covered with stones and studs and very colourful to say the least. It was nick-named the "Kitchen Sink Suit". This was a phrase designer Gene Doucette used when the suit was finished: "We've used up everything except the kitchen sink!"
This suit was done with the last pieces of material they've had because Elvis needed a suit "in a rush". Elvis wore it several times during his last 1973 season and started wearing it again during the first months of 1974. Elvis wore the suit on March 20th, 1974 in Memphis while the live album was being recorded. For this reason fans started naming this suit the "Memphis Suit". But the original name was/is "Arabian".


Just before the spring of 1974 Gene found a way to use embroidery on the suits. The reason he developped this way of designing was that the suits would be lighter in weight and therefor easier for Elvis to wear. A whole new line of suits saw the light of day, all done in embroidery. Two suits that has been always associated with 1976 and 1977 made their debut during Elvis Lake Tahoe season in October 1974: the "Mexican Sundial" and a new version of the "Arabian", this time done in embroidery. Therefor we have two suits baring the same name. To avoid confusion we now talk about the 1973 "Arabian" and the 1974 "Arabian". This last suit is better known as "Ace of Spades" or "King of Spades".
Elvis used two belts on this suit. In 1974 he used the original designed belt. When Elvis started to use the 1974 "Arabian" again in the fall of 1976 he used another belt; the one from the 1975 "V-Neck". In 1977 the 1974 "Arabian" was used again and this time Elvis altered between the original belt and the 1975 "V-neck" belt. Looking closely at the 1976 pictures it might come to your attention that the suit looks larger than in 1974. That is right. I asked Gene if there were two versions. But Gene explained that after the Aloha Show in 1973 they started to anticipate on Elvis weight swings and build in the possibility to let the suit out if the situation asked for it.


It's not only the in the pictures you can see the differences between 1974, 1976 and 1977. The above story was told to me by the designer of this suit; Gene Doucette. If he is the maker, there is no reason for me to doubt. He was/is able to explain the details of each suit with so much care and dedication, you can almost see him making the suit. Besides that; a picture don't lie. We are all Elvis fans, we know our stuff. Okay, some people are better in dating pictures than others. JJ has already explained the details like the sideburns and the 1968 Ebony Gibson J-200 versus the Martin D-35. I would like to add that over the years the Graceland Archives have added a lot of confusion in the Elvis world by sticking to lies, myths and half-truths. Personally I rather rely on the knowledge of the average Elvis-fan than on what the Archives has to say.


Below you will see two sets of pictures I have made for comparing. Both 1974 pictures have already been posted by JJ. On the first picture the left one is from 1974, the right one from 1976. On the second one the upper picture is from 1974 and the one below from 1976.

Simple answer - yes it was worn in 74 and 76
rick

He sure did :D

Elvis did wear this jumpsuit in 1974. Because, the way picture is taken makes the color look different. I've had a lot of professional photo's taken for promo shots and etc. If your looking up into spot light your jumpsuit taking pictures blue will look lighter and if your above the person it will look darker.

Also if you look at Elvis's sideburns. In 1976 Elvis had them longer to hide the weight. Plus the bigger sideburns where in at that time too.

This is beautiful suit along with Inca Jumpsuit I have this one being made also.

Love to all,
Tim Dudley
http://www.geocities.com/dudcowboy_1/

when you look at his face on the 1974 picture he looks better and he was not that overweight than he is in 1976-77

Thank you for your kind words Leroy (y)

Also nice to see others follow the same line of reasoning.

Matt

It's somewhat depressing to look at those photos of Elvis in 74 and then look at a 76 photo that is so identified with that suit.The same goes for the sundial suit which he wore in 74 also.It's so hard to believe he changed that much in so little time.
Jak

I don't see how someone could say those pictures that are suppose to be from 1974 are from 1976. Anyone who knows Elvis, and what physical condition he was in, in 1976 would know that they couldn't be from '76.
So i vote, yes, definitley from 1974!

Thank you to everyone that has voted, (44 when this was posted). It seems quite obvious to all but those who rely on EPE for their information :doh:

It saddens me that EPE are sat on a goldmine of Elvis Presley history which they seem to know very little about. On a more serious note they rely on Priscilla for their Information which is patchy at best and to be perfectly honest I don't think she is that interested in the history..... only the $$$$$$.

Matt

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Originally Posted by Jumpsuit Junkie

Thank you to everyone that has voted, (44 when this was posted). It seems quite obvious to all but those who rely on EPE for their information :doh:

It saddens me that EPE are sat on a goldmine of Elvis Presley history which they seem to know very little about. On a more serious note they rely on Priscilla for their Information which is patchy at best and to be perfectly honest I don't think she is that interested in the history..... only the $$$$$$.

Matt

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You know, it's saddens me that you would slam EPE and Priscilla this way. I have known her for a long time, and she does care about preserving Elvis' history in the correct way. I don't just rely on EPE or the archives at Graceland, but I have found they are more accurate than 99.9% of the info on the market. Priscilla has a wonderful memory, and for you to say it's "patchy at best", would be wrong. If you have read either of the books she wrote about Elvis or seen the TV specials, you would know this is so.
However, what saddens me even more is that you are so darn wrapped up in this jumpsuit "controversy", and us Elvis fans are supposed to pass on Elvis' legacy, keep it alive, not argue about what jumpsuit he wore and when or for what reason. So, I for one, I am letting it go.............

You know, it's saddens me that you would slam EPE and Priscilla this way. I have known her for a long time, and she does care about preserving Elvis' history in the correct way. I don't just rely on EPE or the archives at Graceland, but I have found they are more accurate than 99.9% of the info on the market. Priscilla has a wonderful memory, and for you to say it's "patchy at best", would be wrong. If you have read either of the books she wrote about Elvis or seen the TV specials, you would know this is so.
However, what saddens me even more is that you are so darn wrapped up in this jumpsuit "controversy", and us Elvis fans are supposed to pass on Elvis' legacy, keep it alive, not argue about what jumpsuit he wore and when or for what reason. So, I for one, I am letting it go.............

I think I have done quite a bit of work on my site to keep Elvis' legacy alive. You are quite right when you say I was wrong in the fact Priscilla's memory was "patchy at best" a better word and the "CORRECT" terminology would be selective memory. Priscilla was the EX wife of Elvis Presley, I have read books by Priscilla and can make an informed comment on Miss Beaulieu, Elvis By The Presley's was a complete re-write and re-slant in her favour (n)

I thank EPE and Priscilla for the fact we have a focal point that we can go and see at Graceland, but i am not so blind that I don't see the bigger picture and the reasons Miss Beaulieu re-writes history and negates the last 4 years of Elvis' life. Priscilla who incidentally remarried and still kept her first husbands name, has probably less knowledge of Elvis' stageware than a non Elvis fan!!

Anyway I just can't be bothered to rehash what a great many people have commented in a thread with the most posts and views second only to the "Who Are We Thread" Click HERE

I agee that EPE is a great source of artifacts and sit on a wealth of knowledge but there are also many, many people out there who I would trust to provide factual information who don't have a vested interest in giving a skewed history for the sake of $$$.

Matt

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Originally Posted by Jumpsuit Junkie

You know, it's saddens me that you would slam EPE and Priscilla this way. I have known her for a long time, and she does care about preserving Elvis' history in the correct way. I don't just rely on EPE or the archives at Graceland, but I have found they are more accurate than 99.9% of the info on the market. Priscilla has a wonderful memory, and for you to say it's "patchy at best", would be wrong. If you have read either of the books she wrote about Elvis or seen the TV specials, you would know this is so.
However, what saddens me even more is that you are so darn wrapped up in this jumpsuit "controversy", and us Elvis fans are supposed to pass on Elvis' legacy, keep it alive, not argue about what jumpsuit he wore and when or for what reason. So, I for one, I am letting it go.............

I think I have done quite a bit of work on my site to keep Elvis' legacy alive. You are quite right when you say I was wrong in the fact Priscilla's memory was "patchy at best" a better word and the "CORRECT" terminology would be selective memory. Priscilla was the EX wife of Elvis Presley, I have read books by Priscilla and can make an informed comment on Miss Beaulieu, Elvis By The Presley's was a complete re-write and re-slant in her favour (n)

I thank EPE and Priscilla for the fact we have a focal point that we can go and see at Graceland, but i am not so blind that I don't see the bigger picture and the reasons Miss Beaulieu re-writes history and negates the last 4 years of Elvis' life. Priscilla who incidentally remarried and still kept her first husbands name, has probably less knowledge of Elvis' stageware than a non Elvis fan!!

Anyway I just can't be bothered to rehash what a great many people have commented in a thread with the most posts and views second only to the "Who Are We Thread" Click HERE

I agee that EPE is a great source of artifacts and sit on a wealth of knowledge but there are also many, many people out there who I would trust to provide factual information who don't have a vested interest in giving a skewed history for the sake of $$$.

Matt

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You may may done your part to maintain Elvis' legacy on your site, as I strive to do the same in my own way, but I gotta tell you I don't think "selective" would be a proper or correct term either. I don't feel she has been "selective" in what she has said in books or in TV specials, and especially not with the beautiful "Elvis By The Presleys". It wasn't slanted in her favor, in fact, I think just the opposite...it gives fans a clearer view of what kind of a person Elvis was, or as I would put it, the difficulties in "being Elvis". She doesn't negate the last 4 years of Elvis' life....she has talked about those years before, but as with so many fans, she chooses to remember him when he was vital and healthy. That's not re-writing history, it's called the human condition. Would you want to remember a loved one who died as they were towards the end, or when they were healthy? And the fact she remarried has nothing to do with the disscussion either. I fully believe she would know more about Elvis, whether it was stagewear or otherwise than either of us, and would definitely have more knowledge of such than a "non-fan".
EPE is there to keep Elvis' memory and legacy going, thus we have Graceland, have had "Elvis The Concert", and all the wonderful releases on either LP or CD since he died. They are not skewing history...they preserve it. And I thank them for it.

Sorry to go off the jumpsuit issue Vulcandude and JumpsuitJunkie, but when did Priscilla remarry? I was under the impression she never married again, but lived with the father of her son as common-law husband and wife? :blush:

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Originally Posted by vulcandude

You may may done your part to maintain Elvis' legacy on your site, as I strive to do the same in my own way, but I gotta tell you I don't think "selective" would be a proper or correct term either. I don't feel she has been "selective" in what she has said in books or in TV specials, and especially not with the beautiful "Elvis By The Presleys". It wasn't slanted in her favor, in fact, I think just the opposite...it gives fans a clearer view of what kind of a person Elvis was, or as I would put it, the difficulties in "being Elvis". She doesn't negate the last 4 years of Elvis' life....she has talked about those years before, but as with so many fans, she chooses to remember him when he was vital and healthy. That's not re-writing history, it's called the human condition. Would you want to remember a loved one who died as they were towards the end, or when they were healthy? And the fact she remarried has nothing to do with the disscussion either. I fully believe she would know more about Elvis, whether it was stagewear or otherwise than either of us, and would definitely have more knowledge of such than a "non-fan".
EPE is there to keep Elvis' memory and legacy going, thus we have Graceland, have had "Elvis The Concert", and all the wonderful releases on either LP or CD since he died. They are not skewing history...they preserve it. And I thank them for it.

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It would seem that you have made you position quite clear that you believe in the revisonist history that Priscilla has created and are happy to believe in the propaganda that she releases. I think it is very important that Priscilla got re-married and decided to keep the name Presley. It is a matter of fact that she went back to her maiden name after she divorced Elvis and then after his death suddenly decided it was good enough to use again! I don't think for one minute that Priscilla has studdied Elvis' costumes and would be able to name and date them all. A case in point of how Priscilla works is the fact that she redecorated Graceland when Elvis died and moved away from the red decoration when Elvis and Linda lived there and painted it white and cream from the time she and Elvis lived there.

As for remembering Elvis when he was supposedly vital and healthy that is revisionist history, Elvis was Elvis and you cannot simply choose to ignore 1974-77 because you don't like the path Elvis' life took, there are many avid fans of this period. I have Elvis By The Presley's and it makes for Interesting viewing to say the least, It portrays Priscilla as some poor victim, if this is meant to portray Elvis in a positive light then she is certainly not doing it from Elvis' point of view and he is not around to defend himself.

I have watched many interviews with Priscilla as a guest and she is always portrayed as Elvis' widow, this simply is not the case, she divorced Elvis in 1972 and distanced herself from the Presley name...... she now revels in this name and uses it for her own gain. If Priscilla was all for looking after the Elvis legacy why has she sold the rights to Robert Sillerman? She has kept on Graceland and that is because this would be her main income stream.

I don't dispute that Priscilla has a wealth of knowledge about Elvis during their time together, after that I'm pretty certain that Linda Tompson would be a better authority! That being the case isn't it refreshing that when linda gives interviews it is always from a positive perspective when in actual fact Linda would be in a better position to discuss Elvis' declined better that Priscilla!

As i have commented before: -

Priscilla was star struck with the 1950's Elvis and then consumed with the fame and fortune that came along with the whole Elvis Presley package. Changing back to her maiden name was like cutting off your nose to spite your face!

If Elvis had survived Aug 16th, Pricilla would never have gone back to using the name Presley, she wouldn't have had the guts.

Pricilla craves the fame and adoration that she could never achieve through her own minimal talent, this has to be supplimented through the name of Elvis. On one level she has come to resent Elvis purely because she needs him to maintain her celebrity status and on another level has to maintain the legacy to sustain her ego.

Over the years this has taken its toll and she has started to chip away at their private life, the reason for ths is twofold 1. To vindicate the reason why she left Elvis 2. This places Priscilla as the victim and in theory ilicits some sort of sympathy.

This woman has no shame and only views Elvis through her own narrow eyes. Her resentment can barely be disguised. Lisa Marie seems so disinterested in any venture being spearheaded by her mother and merely pays lip service begrudgingly.

Priscilla has trotted out the same old B/S for so long even she now believes it.

I suppose we should be grateful of any crumbs thrown from the Beaulieu table.

Quite how Priscilla's shinanagins plays out with her other children and husband is anyones guess.

To be perfectly honest I would be quite happy for Priscilla to sell off Graceland as I'm less fearful of some corparation selling off the family assets as has EPE over the years.

Did Elvis leave Graceland to his embittered EX wife in his will? did Priscilla goad Vernon into making her into the chief executive of the estate?

Matt

10-12-74-Lake Tahoe

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/682...ingofspiw3.jpg

:hmm:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jumpsuit Junkie

It would seem that you have made you position quite clear that you believe in the revisonist history that Priscilla has created and are happy to believe in the propaganda that she releases. I think it is very important that Priscilla got re-married and decided to keep the name Presley. It is a matter of fact that she went back to her maiden name after she divorced Elvis and then after his death suddenly decided it was good enough to use again! I don't think for one minute that Priscilla has studdied Elvis' costumes and would be able to name and date them all. A case in point of how Priscilla works is the fact that she redecorated Graceland when Elvis died and moved away from the red decoration when Elvis and Linda lived there and painted it white and cream from the time she and Elvis lived there.

As for remembering Elvis when he was supposedly vital and healthy that is revisionist history, Elvis was Elvis and you cannot simply choose to ignore 1974-77 because you don't like the path Elvis' life took, there are many avid fans of this period. I have Elvis By The Presley's and it makes for Interesting viewing to say the least, It portrays Priscilla as some poor victim, if this is meant to portray Elvis in a positive light then she is certainly not doing it from Elvis' point of view and he is not around to defend himself.

I have watched many interviews with Priscilla as a guest and she is always portrayed as Elvis' widow, this simply is not the case, she divorced Elvis in 1972 and distanced herself from the Presley name...... she now revels in this name and uses it for her own gain. If Priscilla was all for looking after the Elvis legacy why has she sold the rights to Robert Sillerman? She has kept on Graceland and that is because this would be her main income stream.

I don't dispute that Priscilla has a wealth of knowledge about Elvis during their time together, after that I'm pretty certain that Linda Tompson would be a better authority! That being the case isn't it refreshing that when linda gives interviews it is always from a positive perspective when in actual fact Linda would be in a better position to discuss Elvis' declined better that Priscilla!

As i have commented before: -

Priscilla was star struck with the 1950's Elvis and then consumed with the fame and fortune that came along with the whole Elvis Presley package. Changing back to her maiden name was like cutting off your nose to spite your face!

If Elvis had survived Aug 16th, Pricilla would never have gone back to using the name Presley, she wouldn't have had the guts.

Pricilla craves the fame and adoration that she could never achieve through her own minimal talent, this has to be supplimented through the name of Elvis. On one level she has come to resent Elvis purely because she needs him to maintain her celebrity status and on another level has to maintain the legacy to sustain her ego.

Over the years this has taken its toll and she has started to chip away at their private life, the reason for ths is twofold 1. To vindicate the reason why she left Elvis 2. This places Priscilla as the victim and in theory ilicits some sort of sympathy.

This woman has no shame and only views Elvis through her own narrow eyes. Her resentment can barely be disguised. Lisa Marie seems so disinterested in any venture being spearheaded by her mother and merely pays lip service begrudgingly.

Priscilla has trotted out the same old B/S for so long even she now believes it.

I suppose we should be grateful of any crumbs thrown from the Beaulieu table.

Quite how Priscilla's shinanagins plays out with her other children and husband is anyones guess.

To be perfectly honest I would be quite happy for Priscilla to sell off Graceland as I'm less fearful of some corparation selling off the family assets as has EPE over the years.

Did Elvis leave Graceland to his embittered EX wife in his will? did Priscilla goad Vernon into making her into the chief executive of the estate?

Matt

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It would seem you have made your position perfectly clear as well. You fully believe that Priscilla and EPE are trying to re-write history when that hasn't been the case. Priscilla having re-married has nothing to do with the topic at hand, (which seems to have strayed a bit from the original), and neither she, nor Elvis named the suits....the fans did, giving them various names. So, she might not know all of their names, but I guarantee she knows more than you or I do. I don't think the information she's given out over the years is propaganda, she merely is telling her side of the story. If Elvis were here, he might do the same. She's not trying to elicit sympathy for having left Elvis or for any of her other actions, (most of which happened more than 30 years ago), I think she truly is trying to keep Elvis' memory alive, which is what we all try to do. I also think you hold these things against her, though I don't know why.
As I mentioned before, not promoting how Elvis was during 74-77 isn't revising history, nor is it denying that time period, for they have shown footage of "Elvis In Concert" in TV specials, and you can find pictures of him from that period of time everywhere. Why would you want to remember someone you loved as how they were in the end rather than when they were healthy? I certainly wouldn't. It's called being HUMAN. It's called LOVE. "Elvis By The Presleys" isn't prtraying her as some "poor victim", as you put it, and I think it is one of the best and most positive specials ever done on Elvis, and I think he'd agree.
I don't believe that Priscilla uses Elvis for her own gain....she loved him, always has, and does the best she can in preserving his memory. (And the same goes for Lisa Marie.) If you can't see that, then you obviously can't tell which end is your own behind. And that's all I care to say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eve

10-12-74-Lake Tahoe

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/682...ingofspiw3.jpg

:hmm:

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Love this pix Eve... You truly have some great ones of Elvis. (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) Dovey ;)

Georgous picture Eve :D ;)

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Originally Posted by vulcandude

I don't believe that Priscilla uses Elvis for her own gain....she loved him, always has, and does the best she can in preserving his memory. (And the same goes for Lisa Marie.) If you can't see that, then you obviously can't tell which end is your own behind. And that's all I care to say.

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I would have appriciate a substantive answer to the statements I posed, it seems clear you are unable to and now have resorted to insults. (n)

You are either unable to take off your rose tinted glasses or are unable to be a critical thinker, either way I feel sorry for you because you can only appriciate Elvis on a superficial level as prescribed by Mrs. Garibaldi (seperated)

Back on topic! You have clearly avoided getting back to the question at hand, well?