Where is your proof that Elvis didn't own a Koran? You're the one who is denying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRtherealJR
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Where is your proof that Elvis didn't own a Koran? You're the one who is denying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRtherealJR
I dont think this is such a good idea... lots of Elvis fans are also Muslims.... I was born and raised a Muslim, I read on Larry Geller IF I Can Dream book about him mentioning Elvis also learned Islam,..may be as a comparison, as much as Elvis was born and raised Christian but in his life he's interested and had high respect with many differences of Religious and Spiritual Beliefs, .. I think Elvis will not put himself in position to be in one particular political views, or religion.. although he liked to read some verse of Bible while on stage in front of his audiences, but still i dont think he would love to be put up there on stage as a Preacher ,... for him he was and still is simply An Entertainer.
Thank you for confirming what I suspected- you have absolutely no proof whatsoever to back up your claims. You are just inventing stories out of thin air and presenting them as facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by vivaelvis
You have claimed that Elvis studied Islam- I challenged you on this and you backed down saying "well he never studied it but he owned a Koran"
I have asked you to provide proof for your next claim: that EP owned a Koran- you have failed to provide proof or even say where you heard it.
You then went on to make a bizarre claim that in 2001 EPE were planning to "put Elvis' Koran on public display, but changed their minds after 9/11"- again you give no proof to back up such a ludicrous story.
Then you alleged that Muhammad Ali gave Elvis a Koran- again with no proof when challenged.
I am seeing a pattern developing here of you seemingly making up outlandish claims to make Elvis out to be something he was not. You are trying to re-write history and somehow alter people's perception of who Elvis was. You are trying to make Elvis into "your Elvis" or in other words the Elvis you want him to be at the expense of historical accuracy.
There is an overwhelming majority of evidence that Elvis never in fact owned a Koran. Nobody who was close to him has ever stated he owned a Koran or studied Islam. Nobody who was close to him even saw him reading a Koran.
No Koran was ever found after he died. If such a thing was found- we would have heard about it by now; EPE would have gladly pushed it into the public domain long before September 11, 2001 to promote Elvis' multicultural appeal.
I have read over 130 books on Elvis and none of them ever mentioned even a passing interest in Islam on Elvis' part, let alone him owning a Koran.
There is absolutely nothing to even hint at supporting your claims, so to answer your question, this is my evidence.
Again, I have to ask: where is your proof?
Are you serious, man? You sound like someone living in denial of the truth. Refusing to believe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRtherealJR
First of all, EPE discovered the book in their archives back in 2001 and were planning on displaying it as part of a religious exhibit on his faith just prior to the 911 fallout. But as soon as hatred poured out towards Muslims and their faith, EPE wisely chose not to. I guess you aren't aware that EPE asked a Muslim news reporter from the Middle East to be removed from the Graceland grounds following the attack as a precaution, did you? That made national news! You can believe what you want to, but everything that I have posted is the truth.
Second, you claim that Elvis never studied nor showed any interest in the religion when others besides myself have mentioned it in this very thread. Larry Geller knew Elvis as well as anyone did. In fact knew about his inner faith and beliefs more than the Mafia. That's a fact. If he says that Elvis was interested in the religion and read about it then it must be true. You asked me to prove my fact but you fail to prove yours which is that it did NOT occur when it in fact did. What about the footage that's been on Youtube of Elvis wearing a turban? That is something worn by Middle Easterners, such as Muslims. What about the Islamic depictions in the glass in the Meditation Garden? It makes sense for Elvis to have owned a Koran, which WAS a gift to him from his dear friend, Mohammed Ali. So, come on, man. Don't be gullible.
Third, you come off acting and sounding like a know-it-all, like an Elvis encyclopedia or something. But you're not. So stop acting arrogant. Maybe you should stick to being an Elvis impersonator instead of flaming at posters for posting facts that don't reach your approval. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I do NOT enjoy being attack and called a liar. (n)
Another thing. Most books written about Elvis were always protecting and sugarcoating his image and his real life. Nancy Rooks, his black cook, recently caused some controversy when she wrote a book too, and mentioned that Elvis dated a black girl who worked for him. However, nobody else, who would have known, had ever admitted it. Ask Darlene Love about that. She publicly stated "they weren't gonna let him be with no black girl". So, my point is, don't believe everything you read in a book. Books don't always present the facts.
Here's the Youtube clip of Elvis wearing a turban incase someone says it didn't happen.:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4G8VIO6pi0&feature=fvst
Come On Now guys, Enough of this... this great thread will end up off Topics.
No Buttonhead this is good stuff. This is what TCB has been missing of late,good healthry debate, without name calling of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttonhead
So what if it ends up in the 'off topic' box ? Those who are interested in airing their views will follow it.
I'm ready to lock and load and I'll be back !! ;)
To be fair Viva-we have always here tried to provide proof of anything that has been definitively stated-so there is nothing unusual about asking from where did you get this information.Quote:
Originally Posted by vivaelvis
If you just heard this Koran story from someone off the record-then that is taken into consideration as to its validity.
If you read this in a book which is public record-that is taken into consideration as to validity.
If you have a clip of someone from EPE stating that all you post is true-that is taken into consideration as to validity etc etc etc
I many times do not recall where I heard or read something-and I fully expect people to question me on definitive things I say-and take my answer as to where, by whom and when into consideration when I can not pinpoint a source.
But pretty much the whole time I have been a member here-the question of what is your source-is normal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttonhead
I agree with you , Elvis had and has got many muslim fans and he wouldn't put himself in one particular religious or political point of view . He was interested in studying different religions , it's something cleae , after all what's wrong about seeking other religions and spiritual point of views ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff
Yes and this is another proof of his interest in other cultures , religions and etc..............
http://www.seeing-stars.com/Churches/LakeShrine.shtml
Elvis Presley's favorite spiritual books
. Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda
The list author says:
"Another of Elvis' favorites. A great book! In the "Seeker" chapter of the "Elvis by the Presleys" DVD, Jerry Schilling and Priscilla Presley reveal that Elvis was attracted to the "Self-Realization Fellowship" and spoke often with Daya Mata
Shambhala: Sacred Path of the Warrior by Chogyam Trungpa
The list author says:
"An excellent book for those, like Elvis, who like to apply the principles of martial arts to everyday life. According to Trungpa when you don’t punish or condemn yourself, when you relax and appreciate your body and mind, you begin to contact goodness in yourself
. Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East (6 Volume Set) by Baird T. Spalding
The list author says:
"According to Spalding, "Mastership is bringing to the surface what is buried within by meditation and consulting with the Self." I agree. Another of Elvis' favorites
. Tao Te Ching, 25th-Anniversary Edition (English and Mandarin Chinese Edition) by Lao Tzu
The list author says:
"According to Larry Geller, Elvis thought the Tao was another word for God. The "Tao Te Ching" is one of my all-time favorite books - highly recommended. According to Lao Tzu from caring comes courage
Those who knew him well (Larry Geller, Jerry Schilling, and Priscilla Presley to name a few) say that Elvis was a deeply religious man who spent hours reading books on spirituality, meditating and praying. And although Elvis remained a lifelong Christian he respected other faiths. This spiritual side of Elvis is an often overlooked.
I'd like to ask where is your proof? You say there is overwhelming majority of evidence that Elvis never owned a Koran. Again I ask;Where is you evidence?. You've read 130 books so therefore you must have something that you can scan and present as proof of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRtherealJR
If it was only a passing interest in Islam then perhaps those who have written did not deem it necessary or important enough to mention.Who knows? Of course the reason could also be the stigma attached to the Koran and Islam that troubles the Western world. This has been pointed out by Viva.
If you, sir, do indeed have evidence proving otherwise I challenge you to present it. My feeling is you have tunnel vision when it comes to Elvis and if it is not mentioned in one of the many books you have read (and who can believe most of what is written in them?) then it can not be true.
It is well documented that Elvis had a substantial library of books on world religions , spirituality , different cultures and beliefs .These are subjects he had great interest in and great respect for . Knowing Elvis interest in these subjects id be surprised if Elvis didnt have a copy of the Koran as he seemed to have books on most religions & faiths . This doesnt make him a muslim or a jew or anything else , just that he had an interest in these subjects . Personally i think the holy land idea is rediculous . Elvis was an entertainer not a religious leader and i dont think he would approve . What was Elvis answer when asked anything that was political or strayed from entertainment . Id just sooner keep my views about that to myself . Im just an entertainer and id rather not say . I think that makes Elvis view on this pretty clear .
First off, wearing a turban is not exactly proof of some Muslim connection or Muslim leaning, thats stretching the hatband a little far. ;):D
Elvis also wore sporty Fedoras and it did not make him a hitman for the mob, trenchcoats and that did not make him a Secret Service agent.:D
But the question raised by Jr was not about Elvis's interests and curiousity about religions-which is well documented in any number of books-his question was about the source of a specific thing-Did Ali give Elvis a Koran? Thats a fair question. The answer may change minds on this subject-"not" answering does nothing to change minds and set the record straight.
I have never read the Koran gift story anywhere or heard it anywhere, including Alis own Autobiography and another book I own on Ali.
Since Ali has been promoting his faith in Islam since his conversion, I would think he would mention this symbolic gift to Elvis in his books, or in his hundreds of interviews in which he has at times mentioned Elvis-but not this story.
Most here probably know that Elvis gave Ali a jewel incrusted robe to wear which said "The Peoples Champion" and Ali gave Elvis autographed boxing gloves .......that story is in many many books. (Ali only wore the robe for one fight only and because that fight was tough he never wore it again)
I would think that a gift of the Koran to Elvis would be much more worthy of mention by Ali than the gift of boxing gloves.
Or in the books by Elvis insiders the Koran story would have a mention.....as the robe and gloves are mentioned in several insider books.
But this is not about doubting Elvis read many books on religions and varied subjects of philosophy....that is something that is well documented.
I can see why they or nobody would never admit to it. It's not cool nor accepted in the Christian community to own a Koran or even show interest in the religion. They knew it could do harm to Elvis' image if his "middle class white" fans knew about it. However, I have read from Geller and others that Elvis' favorite book outside of the Bible was The Prophet which was written by a Muslim. So it is very possible that Elvis did have a copy of the Koran.Quote:
Originally Posted by KPM
As for Ali not mentioning it. Maybe he has and it's just gone unnoticed. Or, maybe he felt that it would tarnish Elvis' legacy and he didn't want that. It's also possible that it wasn't a gift from Ali after all but just something that Elvis got a copy of. EPE has never unveiled his massive library collection. No telling what all was in there.
I didn't read that EPE was going to present it on display. It was told to someone I knew and that it was decided after 911 not to display it and to keep it in the vaults. They stumbled across it and that Elvis had written in it. It's possible that he kept it private as someone does with a diary.
Here is a list I found:
Shortly before his death, Elvis had given his friend, Wanda June Hill, a list of his favorite books, saying to her that if she didn't do anything else in her lifetime, that she should read these books.
Elvis' Favorite Book List
The Impersonal Life
The Initiation of the World
The Prophet
The Mystical Christ
The Secret Doctrine
Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East
The Leaves of Morya's Garden, Volumes I & II
Red Tree (by "Christine Hayes" - Maia Christianne Nartoomid)
The Philosophy of Shopenhauer
Life of Christ
The Autobiography of a Yogi
Cosmic Consciousness
The Intimate Way
Sacred Science of Numbers
The Inner Reality
The New Age Voice
The World Around Us
The Bible
The Agony of Christianity
The Joyful Wisdom
A Scientific Search for the Face of Jesus
Just One Voice
Run on guys and gals, this is great stuff!!!!! (y)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff
It is a great thread Cliff,... although it would be hard to get a proof of which elvis owned a Koran...hey ! I have one :lol: I would give it to Elvis if he still alive,... But again as we all know Elvis has an indepth conquest in Spirituality, thats why he got really close with larry geller, this is just how human THe King Of Rock n Roll was, he often wondered why God make him as Elvis with fame/ fortune, contrary with his childhood which was dirt-poor, made Elvis had stronger faith that it was God who helped him along the way. Talking about this spiritual topics makes me realize I need to pray more often... we all Blessed , its just more often we dont really know it. Oh ok now I am gone off topic with this :lol:
Seeing one of the books you listed being "SHAMBHALA:SACRED PATH OF THE WARRIOR" bought to mind the song by Three Dog night in the mid 70s called "THE ROAD TO SHAMBALA". There is some interesting information in this clip,Quote:
Originally Posted by mistymorning
http://youtu.be/6ZrG1i_z2Kc
Everything Ali says has made news for decades-people pay attention to him and he has many times said-his main goal since he converted to Islam was to promote his religion by his actions and deeds (in and out of the ring) I just find the idea that he would give Elvis Presley a Koran as a gift while Elvis was alive not being front and center when he speaks of Elvis-hard to believe. You seem to make huge leaps on certain ideas, Geller says one of Elvis's favorite books was "the Prophet" (common knowledge) written by a Muslim-so that by association makes it more likely that Elvis owned a Koran???Quote:
Originally Posted by vivaelvis
Elvis liking the Prophet could also mean he loved the symbolism and mystic of the book and it spoke to him-regardless of who wrote it-but only Elvis knew why he liked it.
This debate began because you made the definitive comment "Ali" gave a Koran to him-that is the statement which JR reacted to, he wanted to know where you got the info that "ALI gave a copy to him".
You now say it was told to you by someone you know.....whom you may trust for information-but that does not make it a definitive end to the question.
I can understand you may have total confidence in people you get info from-but the rest of us do not have that same confidence-we do not know them, how they acquired their information and how truthful their source may be,.... its not personal .....-he or she could just be smoozing-that is a possibility that all info like this must be weighed with.
As far as harming Elvis's image, if Elvis being respectful, friendly and admiring of Ali did not harm his image-I do not think owning a Koran (if true)
would do so.
I am probably considered Middle class-I am white-it does not mean earth shaking things to me if Elvis owned a Koran-it says he explored other cultures beyond his upbrining and that shows intelligence.
First off, JP said that Elvis never owned a Koran. Not that it was a gift to him by Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by KPM
Second, my source spoke directly to a former Graceland staff worker who took part in setting up displays. This was NOT hearsay.
Third, unless you are of Christian faith you cannot possibly begin to understand the outcry one would get from the Christian community to associate with the Islamic beliefs. Such as owning a Koran. Religious beliefs and faith are the most controversial and dangerous things to debate about in society. They can even lead to violence and death. The two most followed religions in the world are Christianity and Islamic.
Back to the topic of the thread. EPE is putting fans into a potentially dangerous situation by taking them to the Holy Land and preaching the word of God to Elvis fans, knowing that many Muslims are fans of Elvis too and that Muslims dominate that region and the temple where Jesus is said to one day return. If they are smart, they won't isolate or alienate other religious groups. If they ever did and those fans turned on them, the company would be in some deep crap. They strongly depend on international tourism for income. They better have strong advisers looking into this.