sony vs bmg

was listening to the ol release of rythm and country and remembered what a great cd tghis was and still is i remember how great bmg was at putting out some great product even for joe public to enjoy, it seems ever since they merged with sony that the projects have bin dismal and uninspiring to say the least , i know we have a collectors label for serious fans but what about those who are just not that serious having an outlet like this just might bring in new blood and i'm sure bmg/sony needs it badly, so your thoughts?

Is this the EssentialElvis vol 5.........???

If it is, I love this cd, one of my favourites.

i don't think the general public are interested in that type of release, they just want hits collections , i don't really think they would appreciate alternate takes and studio banter, that kinda stuff is aimed at the diehards i think.

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Originally Posted by elvisville

i don't think the general public are interested in that type of release, they just want hits collections , i don't really think they would appreciate alternate takes and studio banter, that kinda stuff is aimed at the diehards i think.

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i used the word think too many times in that reply, lol.

BMG sucked at marketing Elvis just as much as RCA during Elvis' lifetime. They had difficulties selling 'the other side of ELvis'. But at times, they released some wonderful albums (as the one you've mentioned). But they did a horrible job maintaining Elvis' catalogue, the artist that earned them billions.

When Sony and BMG merged, I expected a change: reissues of ELvis' original albums in high quality (like those old 24bit Japanese DCC releases of ELvis albums). We, the fans, know for decades that Elvis is much more than 'Teddy Bear' and 'Dont Be Cruel', just as Ernst does. I thought/hoped that this new BMG/Sony combination finally wanted to pay tribute to Elvis and present his material the best way possible.

I also thought that a few years ago BMG/Sony said that they would stop releasing those meaningless 'best of' compilation and would focus on a streamlined, highquality catalogue.

So far, I'm quite dissapointed. There's too much for the masses, too little for the fans and way too little effort to win new fans.

Spot on Albert

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Originally Posted by Albert

BMG sucked at marketing Elvis just as much as RCA during Elvis' lifetime. They had difficulties selling 'the other side of ELvis'. But at times, they released some wonderful albums (as the one you've mentioned). But they did a horrible job maintaining Elvis' catalogue, the artist that earned them billions.

When Sony and BMG merged, I expected a change: reissues of ELvis' original albums in high quality (like those old 24bit Japanese DCC releases of ELvis albums). We, the fans, know for decades that Elvis is much more than 'Teddy Bear' and 'Dont Be Cruel', just as Ernst does. I thought/hoped that this new BMG/Sony combination finally wanted to pay tribute to Elvis and present his material the best way possible.

I also thought that a few years ago BMG/Sony said that they would stop releasing those meaningless 'best of' compilation and would focus on a streamlined, highquality catalogue.

So far, I'm quite dissapointed. There's too much for the masses, too little for the fans and way too little effort to win new fans.

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Couldn't have said it better myself Albert!!! :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

The one positive thing that we can be thankful for though, is that RCA/BMG/Sony/Heritage/Legacy (whichever one they are called these days :blink:) agreed with Ernst's vision for the FTD label, or just imagine all of the wonderful material that FTD has released that we would probably never have seen released through the mainstream releases... :hmm:

TCB!
Mike

I think that its hard to market someone who is dead and left very very little material which was truely new and unreleased.
If we do not want remixes, duets, or new backing tracks behind existing recordings then what is there? Only repackages and reissues.
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/elvis+presley/albums.html
This link shows 421 albums under Elvis and it is not a complete list.
Most are just repackages and mixing of material from Elvis's long career.
I know the greatest hits packages have been done to death (long before Sony took over) but someone must explain what else there is that can be done which really has not been done.
The albums have been systematically remastered with added bonus tracks and outtakes, the country cuts have been highlighted in several albums , so have early rock, 60s movie music, love songs, gospel, and the 69 sessions.
70s music has had several albums culled from the output of the 70s.
Lets face it-its a very very limited proposition.
I cut Sony/BMG/RCA no slack-but they better than we realize the limits of using the same 750 songs over and over in some way.
They know we fans tire of reissues with little new added-but what choice have they?
I think the fact that they do continue to try to market Elvis shows they are not saying "the heck with it"
Perhaps we want more promotion-but they are not going to do Elvis 30#1s type promotions...... every year. It just does not pay for them to plan and spend for that type of campaign-they will pick and choose their moments.
In the meantime they will put out the reissues and try to generate new fans as cheaply as possible. Its just plain and simple business-low overhead and as much profit as they can.
I'm am not saying I do not wish they worked more at it-but I am realistic to the problems of the situation. They could just do what has been done for Jim Reeves and Hank Williams all the way back to the 50s-which is practically nothing Reeves albums have been reissued with little or no promotion for decades Williams has had a little more promotion over the years(especially since his son Hank Jr has helped)
I am not taking the labels side-but they can not make new things if they have nothing new in the vaults. They will push what sells easily and save big promotion for special things.

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Originally Posted by KPM

I think that its hard to market someone who is dead and left very very little material which was truely new and unreleased.
If we do not want remixes, duets, or new backing tracks behind existing recordings then what is there? Only repackages and reissues.
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/elvis+presley/albums.html
This link shows 421 albums under Elvis and it is not a complete list.
Most are just repackages and mixing of material from Elvis's long career.
I know the greatest hits packages have been done to death (long before Sony took over) but someone must explain what else there is that can be done which really has not been done.
The albums have been systematically remastered with added bonus tracks and outtakes, the country cuts have been highlighted in several albums , so have early rock, 60s movie music, love songs, gospel, and the 69 sessions.
70s music has had several albums culled from the output of the 70s.
Lets face it-its a very very limited proposition.
I cut Sony/BMG/RCA no slack-but they better than we realize the limits of using the same 750 songs over and over in some way.
They know we fans tire of reissues with little new added-but what choice have they?
I think the fact that they do continue to try to market Elvis shows they are not saying "the heck with it"
Perhaps we want more promotion-but they are not going to do Elvis 30#1s type promotions...... every year. It just does not pay for them to plan and spend for that type of campaign-they will pick and choose their moments.
In the meantime they will put out the reissues and try to generate new fans as cheaply as possible. Its just plain and simple business-low overhead and as much profit as they can.
I'm am not saying I do not wish they worked more at it-but I am realistic to the problems of the situation. They could just do what has been done for Jim Reeves and Hank Williams all the way back to the 50s-which is practically nothing Reeves albums have been reissued with little or no promotion for decades Williams has had a little more promotion over the years(especially since his son Hank Jr has helped)
I am not taking the labels side-but they can not make new things if they have nothing new in the vaults. They will push what sells easily and save big promotion for special things.

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Very well said.You can only package the same material in so many ways after all these years.He's been gone a long time.I think it's been better than it was in the past though.The legacy edition of From Elvis In Memphis was nice.No matter what though it's still the same songs over and over.The public and most fans dont really have an interest in the stuff FTD puts out.

FTD do a good Job with what material they have unearthed over the years, there is very little left that would surprise us, if any! Ernst has done us proud, but we always knew that there wasn't an exhaustive supply of out-takes..

To be honest a good package of Elvis hits in the best quality every few years is the way to go (perhaps with footage if that can be done). FTD can still produce some stuff for the die hard fans who still want to collect remastered out-takes etc.

The fans who have been around for decades will be selective regarding purchases, there is a limit to what they will re-buy.

Actually I think that they were definitely heading in the right direction with the "Essential" series... particularly with 4,5 and 6. Many people I`ve met,people who wouldn`t normally listen to a lot of Elvis have commented on these albums and been impressed.There isn`t a lot of applause coming my way for Sony/BMG/RCA etc. but in this case there is.

Agree there SJ, 4,5,and 6 are some of my most played discs

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Originally Posted by debtdbruno

Agree there SJ, 4,5,and 6 are some of my most played discs

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Same here,something about these albums just makes sense to me...shows you what can be done when the effort is put in. I think one reason for it is that they don`t hop around from era to era,you aren`t listening to the early `60s voice one minute and then being hit with the early `70s voice right after it before being bounced back to good ol` mono Rock`n`Roll from the `50s..... it all makes more sense that way.
I remember playing the "A hundred years from now" album for a friend of mine who is well into the whole country-rock side of things and he was convinced that the tracks must have been made with new backings etc.... very very surprised to find that,if anything,this was mostly what was really recorded in the studio.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SleepyJack

Same here,something about these albums just makes sense to me...shows you what can be done when the effort is put in. I think one reason for it is that they don`t hop around from era to era,you aren`t listening to the early `60s voice one minute and then being hit with the early `70s voice right after it before being bounced back to good ol` mono Rock`n`Roll from the `50s..... it all makes more sense that way.
I remember playing the "A hundred years from now" album for a friend of mine who is well into the whole country-rock side of things and he was convinced that the tracks must have been made with new backings etc.... very very surprised to find that,if anything,this was mostly what was really recorded in the studio.

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I had a similar experience with a cousin who is not into Elvis all that much-he thought the Rhythm and Country album had been remixed with added instruments to give it a more modern sound. I don't think he ever really believed the truth that it was as recorded while Elvis was alive.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KPM

I think that its hard to market someone who is dead and left very very little material which was truely new and unreleased.
If we do not want remixes, duets, or new backing tracks behind existing recordings then what is there? Only repackages and reissues.
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/elvis+presley/albums.html
This link shows 421 albums under Elvis and it is not a complete list.
Most are just repackages and mixing of material from Elvis's long career.
I know the greatest hits packages have been done to death (long before Sony took over) but someone must explain what else there is that can be done which really has not been done.
The albums have been systematically remastered with added bonus tracks and outtakes, the country cuts have been highlighted in several albums , so have early rock, 60s movie music, love songs, gospel, and the 69 sessions.
70s music has had several albums culled from the output of the 70s.
Lets face it-its a very very limited proposition.
I cut Sony/BMG/RCA no slack-but they better than we realize the limits of using the same 750 songs over and over in some way.
They know we fans tire of reissues with little new added-but what choice have they?
I think the fact that they do continue to try to market Elvis shows they are not saying "the heck with it"
Perhaps we want more promotion-but they are not going to do Elvis 30#1s type promotions...... every year. It just does not pay for them to plan and spend for that type of campaign-they will pick and choose their moments.
In the meantime they will put out the reissues and try to generate new fans as cheaply as possible. Its just plain and simple business-low overhead and as much profit as they can.
I'm am not saying I do not wish they worked more at it-but I am realistic to the problems of the situation. They could just do what has been done for Jim Reeves and Hank Williams all the way back to the 50s-which is practically nothing Reeves albums have been reissued with little or no promotion for decades Williams has had a little more promotion over the years(especially since his son Hank Jr has helped)
I am not taking the labels side-but they can not make new things if they have nothing new in the vaults. They will push what sells easily and save big promotion for special things.

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WELL SAID KEN!!! :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

TCB!
Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SleepyJack

Same here,something about these albums just makes sense to me...shows you what can be done when the effort is put in. I think one reason for it is that they don`t hop around from era to era,you aren`t listening to the early `60s voice one minute and then being hit with the early `70s voice right after it before being bounced back to good ol` mono Rock`n`Roll from the `50s..... it all makes more sense that way.
I remember playing the "A hundred years from now" album for a friend of mine who is well into the whole country-rock side of things and he was convinced that the tracks must have been made with new backings etc.... very very surprised to find that,if anything,this was mostly what was really recorded in the studio.

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I like the live shows, good to hear how he performed and how the audience reacted to him. However I don't think you can beat hearing him working in the studio, and being a fly on the wall to all the banter between them.
Also, I prefer his music pure, with less orchestration, it overwhelmes his vocals sometimes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by debtdbruno

I like the live shows, good to hear how he performed and how the audience reacted to him.

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Plus...you never know if he will sing some unusual gem, like WOODEN HEART on the DINNER AT EIGHT FTD or RETURN TO SENDER on the upcoming NEW HAVEN '76 FTD. Yes, listening to his concerts can become a bit monotonous because he didn't change up his set lists too often, but still...when you come across one of those rare live gems, it makes it all worthwhile!!! ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by debtdbruno

However I don't think you can beat hearing him working in the studio, and being a fly on the wall to all the banter between them.
Also, I prefer his music pure, with less orchestration, it overwhelmes his vocals sometimes.

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ABSOLUTELY!!! One of the more recent FTD's, ELVIS GOLD' RECORDS VOL. 2, has the session outtakes from the June '58 sessions where Elvis recorded I GOT STUNG, A FOOL SUCH AS I and I NEED YOUR LOVE TONIGHT and while the mainstream, casual Elvis fans might not find the interest in listening to 24 takes in a row of I GOT STUNG, for us Elvis fans, it is the next best thing to being in the studio with Elvis....just to listen to him perfecting his craft!!! It is absolutely amazing!!! :king: (y)

TCB!
Mike

Yeh............
The latest FTD of JR............22 takes of 'Young and Beautiful'...........fabulous!!!! one of my fav 50's songs

I couldn't agree more Mike.

If we want to see unreleased material, FTD is what we have to look forward to. So its good we keep supporting the label to keep getting the unreleased material. I don't expect nothing but re issues from bmg though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KPM

I
I cut Sony/BMG/RCA no slack-but they better than we realize the limits of using the same 750 songs over and over in some way.

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FTD aside, but talking about general public releases (the best of, greatest hits, country, love song, type of cd's) the thing to me is, they haven not used those 750 songs to the limit, they have done that with the same old usual 250 well known songs, we had like a hundred "best of" type of cd's with the same dam 250 songs.

There is a whole array of Elvis music (in many cases some of his best sides), that still remains totally unknown to the fans. There is still a chance to market that music to a general audience, both for their own profit and also at Elvis benefit, a chance that had mostly remained death.

I think BMG back in the 90's was doing a better job than Sony, stuff like: Artist of The Century, Platinum, and the follow up to the Essential series were moves over the right direction. Sure, and album full of alternate takes, was not of everybody interest, but as some stories have come up already on this thread, there were quite some people (non fan people I mean) discovering a new side of Elvis, and liking it, one beyond the same old top 10 hits and beloved love songs.

FTD is fantastic for us fans, but it is also creating a very elitist audience for Elvis music beyond the greatest hits, and does not brings a lot of new fans to the map.

Stuff like audience recordings, full sessions and all that is perfect for FTD, but stuff like the Classic Albums series (not all of them), could have worked more than well to restore and revive Elvis mainstream catalogue, delivering the original album, and a extra CD full of new stuff.

Also some the thematic releases could make to the mainstream, as they were the old essential series, ones that although they were not chart toppers at all, were starting to get nice reviews in the specialized critic, helping to rediscover a new Elvis, to a new audience, something that stopped to happen with Sony and a mile of best of CD's, totally a step back to the 80's.