Elvis' Mother

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Originally Posted by Jumpsuit Junkie

Good point, I often have thought about how all the guys held it together if they were in fact "worse" than Elvis!! I can only extrapolate that what Jess means is their behaviours were "worse" than Elvis' ;)

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Well seeing as how they are still with us today for them to have been worse than Elvis then they must have special powers or something..come on i dont believe that, someone like lamar fike one of the few who would talk to elvis about taht stuff when he was taking demerol and lamar said elvis do you know what your taking..that stuff is for cancer patients..and elvis said something along the lines of i need it tahts all that matters and if you say one more GD thing about it i'll break you or something...read that in Down at the end of lonely street book...so it sounds to me from what i've read and heard that elvis most obviously worse in this stuff..

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Originally Posted by MissyM

The word "worse" when referring to the MM, is opinion not fact. None of them died from drug addictions. And if you are going to go there, then nothing Elvis ever said is the truth either.
Just because a person takes drugs does not mean that everything they say is hogwash. A person/their words are still of value. Matter of fact for years they have been have held such value that they are constantly used as references and fans rely on many of them.

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Agreed with you on all grounds!

It was worded that way to me,b by someone.

Matt, yes, that is what I meant.

In affect, oh heck. I hate all of this. Some were not taking prescription drugs, put it that way, Sonny has said it, himself. I'm sick of this pointing the finger as if we are all perfect.

Certainly, no-one will take advice from someone who is taking worse things.

They were young men having fun, and it went wrong, they learnt from it, like we all do. It's what makes us, us. People with life experience, people with empathy. People who care. There aren't many around.

Milly, I don't EVER refer to Billy. I am only replying here, because of Elvis, I'm sick of this pulling him apart. It feels like it is daily.

Would anyone here pull apart their loved ones?

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Originally Posted by Jess

It was worded that way to me,b by someone.

Matt, yes, that is what I meant.

In affect, oh heck. I hate all of this. Some were not taking prescription drugs, put it that way, Sonny has said it, himself. I'm sick of this pointing the finger as if we are all perfect.

Certainly, no-one will take advice from someone who is taking worse things.

They were young men having fun, and it went wrong, they learnt from it, like we all do. It's what makes us, us. People with life experience, people with empathy. People who care. There aren't many around.

Milly, I don't EVER refer to Billy. I am only replying here, because of Elvis, I'm sick of this pulling him apart. It feels like it is daily.

Would anyone here pull apart their loved ones?

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No one here is pulling elvis apart...we all know that elvis made wrong choices in his life and there is nothing wrong in having a civialized discussion about the bad side of him...

And Elvis obviously never learned from it as he was the one that never admitted to being a drug addict and had himself convinced that he needed the stuff.now sure he had some problems he needed the medication for but for the most part i honestly believe elvis just loved the feeling of being numb....to bad he never learned from his problems...

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Originally Posted by Col Jon Burrows

No one here is pulling elvis apart...we all know that elvis made wrong choices in his life and there is nothing wrong in having a civialized discussion about the bad side of him...

And Elvis obviously never learned from it as he was the one that never admitted to being a drug addict and had himself convinced that he needed the stuff.now sure he had some problems he needed the medication for but for the most part i honestly believe elvis just loved the feeling of being numb....to bad he never learned from his problems...

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For someone of Elvis' talent, you have to ask the question why did he self destruct in such a way?

Well, I think to answer that you'd have to really get into Elvis's head as much as possible. For one thing there was a biological predisposition for distructive behavior.

Elvis's life for the most part, before fame was a simple life. It moves at a slow pace, and you just sit back and enjoy the ride. It was a time of innocence and fun. Even though Elvis's family was poor, there was a certain amount of security in the bonds that age and family bring. Hard times just solidified the bonds more. Most kids feed off of the moods of their mothers. Gladys was a gregarious/happy women in spite of challenges therefore, so was Elvis. No not perfect but generally happy. While his mother was protective in some ways, he still was given freedom to explore and be creative, (that was encouraged, and have fun.
Then your world starts turning at a pace that you are not used too. This happens at a time that most young men are still trying to find out who they are. Who you are for Elvis becomes defined very much by the public image and one thing...his music. Some relationships become defined by your fame.
But you are still going through all the changes, moods, and things that happen to a normal young man. Your family has deaths, your parents argue, you fall in and out of love. Yet, there is the other side to your life that seems to not give you the time to progress through those things as your would with out fame. Listen to other child stars talk about this phenomenon.
Then you are taken away from the one person who offers the most stability, and happiness. (the Army) It's like suddenly ripping a security blanket from a 2 year old. It's a crisis folks.
But none the less, you do it with dignity and accept the inevitable again, with out being able to fully embrace the emotions it causes.
Then that anchor, is dropped (mother dies) and will never be there again.
By this time you are finding some things that make it all easier to cope with. How easy to turn to those things such as drugs, females, and friends/partying. I have been in this place with the knowledge of a predisposion to abuse. Thank God, I didn't dare going there. I would have ended up like him.
So the pattern is set, and you never ever really get the breathing room to deal with life's pace and heartaches, like a normal person would. Much is heaped on you, one person. The need to own your creativity (something that was precious) had to be given over to another, because by then, you and others depended so much on it as a comodity. Relationships fail and you can't seem to find fullfillment in them. And the less your needs are met, the easier it is to turn to the one thing that makes it all a bit easier.
Now it's like a snowball going down hill. You've not coped and dealt with so much for so long, not really found yourself in the way you needed to,and learned to just get by from day to day as best you can.
Your world is surreal, and as hard as you look for the real you in it, you can't because you have carried around so much baggage from this life, you are weighted down, and just don't have the strength to lift the baggage off and take the time to just be that person you once were.

Great post Missy!(y) I agree 100%. Being Elvis wasn't the fun ride a lot of people think. Too much too fast for one that loved the simple things in life and could no longer find or have the time to enjoy them.

Diane

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Originally Posted by MissyM

For one thing there was a biological predisposition for distructive behavior.

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The scientific jury is still out on this sort of thing. There is no addicton gene, for instance. Life is all about choices. Elvis made his. I'd be interested in any data that shows a direct correlation between addictive parents and their offspring.

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Originally Posted by MissyM

Then you are taken away from the one person who offers the most stability, and happiness. (the Army) It's like suddenly ripping a security blanket from a 2 year old. It's a crisis folks.

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A lot of young men were drafted. A security blanket from a two-year-old? Please, Elvis was 23 when he went in ... a grown man.

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Originally Posted by MissyM

Then that anchor, is dropped (mother dies) and will never be there again.

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Lots of people lose a parent at such an age, and younger. This is not an excuse for Elvis' subsequent long-term behaviour.

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Originally Posted by MissyM

By this time you are finding some things that make it all easier to cope with. How easy to turn to those things such as drugs, females, and friends/partying.

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And how easy not to. Sure, in the short term, going off the rails is fine, even expected. But Elvis, smart though he was, failed to make the right choices in life.

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Originally Posted by MissyM

Now it's like a snowball going down hill.

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A snowball is usually out of control. A life is only out of control if the person chooses it to be.

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Originally Posted by MissyM

I believe everyone is in control of their own life.

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Really? Your post above would seem to completely contradict that accurate theory.

Excuses, excuses ...

Getlo, yes the jury is somewhat out, you will find research that will validate the genetics and some that will not-so to each their own.

The security blanket reference was an example of a stage of life. Physcology will tell you that the terrible two are replicated in the teens. Elvis may have been 23 in numbers, but was he in mental developement?

You can not compare "a lot of men" with Elvis, unique situation, circumstances, and I was not talking about them. (also refer that to the death of his mother)

"And how easy not to. Sure, in the short term, going off the rails is fine, even expected. But Elvis, smart though he was, failed to make the right choices in life" Getlo.----Good you can say this but you were not him, you didn't live his life, so unless you had, you really don't know the easiness of that choice. I am guessing based on my experience of crisis. I am fully aware of my weaknesses.

My reference to the snowball was not linked to his life being out of control. Even a snowball can be stopped. How difficult it would have been is subjective.

In the end, yes everyone is in control of their lives. At any given time Elvis could have stopped anything (well the draft-no) but how easy would doing that have been. What would the result have been for everyone, including him, must be taken into consideration. I'm not making excuses at all. I try to understand the step by step, procession of occurances, interjecting his personhood, into my ideas.

It seems to be so cut and dry to you. For the most part, I am not like that. There are all shades to any given life.

I don't know if there is an addictive gene per se but it is known that certain "tendencies" are passed down and alcoholics have the tendency to pass down the chemical imbalance that makes them what they are. American Indians for instance.

Diane

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Originally Posted by Getlo

The scientific jury is still out on this sort of thing. There is no addicton gene, for instance. Life is all about choices. Elvis made his. I'd be interested in any data that shows a direct correlation between addictive parents and their offspring.

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I agree it is difficult to prove a direct correlation to addictive nature but learned habits die hard: -

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It is well known that the foundations for food choice are laid down in childhood. Poor dietary habits learned in childhood may persist into adult life. The dietary awareness of children is subject to a range of complex interacting forces, for example, peer group pressure, social factors and television advertising. Many investigators have developed innovative methodologies to record these parameters. Reviews, therefore, the methodological issues of studies which have attempted to elicit pre-adolescent attitudes, knowledge and beliefs about food. Finally, makes recommendations about methodological issues that should be considered when studying pre-adolescent children’s food choice.

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The link Here shows that upbringing has a lessor part that originally thought?

One thing is for certain, there are a whole host of factors to be considered before making any judgements.

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Originally Posted by Getlo

The scientific jury is still out on this sort of thing. There is no addicton gene, for instance. Life is all about choices. Elvis made his....

Lots of people lose a parent at such an age, and younger. This is not an excuse for Elvis' subsequent long-term behaviour....

And how easy not to. Sure, in the short term, going off the rails is fine, even expected. But Elvis, smart though he was, failed to make the right choices in life....

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I've always felt that those who suggest that Elvis was so naive that he didn't realize that he was addicted to drugs is an insult to his intelligence. Save for his lack of self-esteem or feelings of intelletual inferiority, he was capable of great understanding and perception. I believe that he was well aware of what he was doing to himself, but instead, lacked any sort of self-control to maintain a civilized lifestyle.

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Originally Posted by ehollier

I've always felt that those who suggest that Elvis was so naive that he didn't realize that he was addicted to drugs is an insult to his intelligence.

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And you'd be completely wrong.

Not admitting to himself that he was a drug addict has nothing to do with his naivete at all.

Witness his drug-fuelled ravings from the stage in Vegas in 1974, where he swore up and down to the audience that he had never been strung out in his life.

Or his protestations to family and friends that he didn't have a problem, when clearly he did.

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Originally Posted by Believe

How do you know he didn't? You might be surprised.

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You have some sort of insight to this ? :hmm:

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Originally Posted by Getlo

And you'd be completely wrong.

Not admitting to himself that he was a drug addict has nothing to do with his naivete at all.

Witness his drug-fuelled ravings from the stage in Vegas in 1974, where he swore up and down to the audience that he had never been strung out in his life.

Or his protestations to family and friends that he didn't have a problem, when clearly he did.

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Agreed Getlo!!!

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Originally Posted by ehollier

I've always felt that those who suggest that Elvis was so naive that he didn't realize that he was addicted to drugs is an insult to his intelligence. S

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Originally Posted by Getlo

And you'd be completely wrong.
Not admitting to himself that he was a drug addict has nothing to do with his naivete at all.
Witness his drug-fuelled ravings from the stage in Vegas in 1974, where he swore up and down to the audience that he had never been strung out in his life.
Or his protestations to family and friends that he didn't have a problem, when clearly he did.

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I agree with Getlo 100% on this one. I assume Elizabeth that you have never had a family member addicted to prescription medication, if so you are very lucky. I have dealt with it before...as I have explained here many times about my mother-n-law. A drugstore addict NEVER thinks they are addicted to anything. That's the true power of the illness..it has you in a choke-hold and you are not even aware of it. I'm quite sure Elvis had no clue that he was in the mess that he really was.:blink::blink::blush::blush:

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Originally Posted by Getlo

And you'd be completely wrong.

Not admitting to himself that he was a drug addict has nothing to do with his naivete at all.

Witness his drug-fuelled ravings from the stage in Vegas in 1974, where he swore up and down to the audience that he had never been strung out in his life.

Or his protestations to family and friends that he didn't have a problem, when clearly he did.

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The basis on which I made this statement is the simple fact that he had stopped taking these drugs on more than one occasion when he faced the challenges of returning to the public with a challenge. He had a temendous constitution and the power to stop taking the drugs when he set his mind to it just as he made the conscious choice to begin these drugs again when he felt like it. The Aloha concert was just one example of this.

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Originally Posted by ehollier

The basis on which I made this statement is the simple fact that he had stopped taking these drugs on more than one occasion when he faced the challenges of returning to the public with a challenge. He had a temendous constitution and the power to stop taking the drugs when he set his mind to it just as he made the conscious choice to begin these drugs again when he felt like it. The Aloha concert was just one example of this.

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That's part of the illness of addiction. You can stop for brief periods, which further solidifies your belief that you have all the control, NOT that the drug has control of you. It's the same for some alcoholics..they may be sober to get through a big family reunion or something where they want to prove to the others that they have NO problem. But...they too will fall off the wagon. When you have lived all of this with family members you would be surprised about some of the things pertaing to addiction. Elvis thought he was proving a BIG point to his friends and family...he stopped when he needed to didn't he? Of course...the next day he was right back at it, all the time telling himself "I don't have a problem..I stopped didn't I?":blink::blink::blush::blush:

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For someone of Elvis' talent, you have to ask the question why did he self destruct in such a way?

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What amazes me is how the same thing keeps happening. I'd think that what happened to Elvis (and to Joplin, Hendrix, Morrison, etc.) would be a lesson. But just look at Amy Winehouse now, destroying herself with drugs. She didn't even make it to 25 before she imploded.

Maybe the people drawn to performing aren't all that stable to begin with. Or maybe most people simply can't handle fame and fortune. But Elvis had a lot of company in self-destructive behavior.

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Originally Posted by Believe

How do you know he didn't? You might be surprised.

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Originally Posted by Col Jon Burrows

You have some sort of insight to this ? :hmm:

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Originally Posted by Believe

Do you? I don't think so. Don't remember seeing you there. Course if I did I would have you thrown out by your ear.

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Originally Posted by Believe

Yeah, you're real funny, kinda remind me of Moon. Marty, in case you didn't know.

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Thanks...I'm glad that you like my humor!!(y)(y) Why did you delete the post you made where you told me to "mind my own business"?:hmm::hmm: :wacko::wacko: