TCB - Philosophical Debate

I understand that part. Well, I try anyway! LOL

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Originally Posted by utmom2008

I totally agree with you Missy, BUT, for my own selfish reasons I'm glad she that she chose to make it a cash cow. I won't deny that I love being there......:blush:

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Originally Posted by MissyM

I understand that part. Well, I try anyway! LOL

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:D:lol::lol:(y)(y)

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Originally Posted by utmom2008

I'm glad she that she chose to make it a cash cow. I won't deny that I love being there......:blush:

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Right! :notworthy

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Originally Posted by Jumpsuit Junkie

Excuse me but I don't think I have injected any negatives just offered an opinion. If you think that Elvis' home could have been sold to some lovely family and that the trustee's would have taken the time to do that, then far be it for me to put forward my opinion to the contrary.

We are talking about one of the biggest stars EVER born, not some small time Hollywood star. Once the property had been sold there would be no telling who the house would have be sold too down the line.

I believe it is naive to think Graceland wasn't going to draw fans there even if it was sold to another family.

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I have to agree with you totally.
Selling the home was not the way to keep the trust living and growing so that Lisa was taken care of. No Trustee with any sense would have agreed to sell the house-unless every option for keeping the trust solvent had been exhausted.
The sale of the house would have been a "one time deal"-and that would have been that. The chances of Lisa being able to live the life Elvis would have wanted off of the sale of the house is IMO a dream.
Elvis's expressed and implied wish with setting up the trust was to keep Lisa set for life and "he did not prohibit any action which might be needed to insure the trust"
Everyone jumps on Priscilla and the co-executors for doing what the will said-protect the trust. (which was monitoried by the court) The trust was in distress according to the court-action had to be taken. Some want to say it was not in distress, but the court back then did not agree. If the trustees had let the trust go under-people would be saying the opposite today-why did Priscilla and the others let it happen.
All these people involved had the straight unadulterated facts at the time-all options had to be discussed.... (with court supervision and suggestions)
The courts point of view regarding trusts is simple, to keep it solvent and growing for the person the trust was set up for..... the option which accomplished this is the one the court would recommend the trustees go with.
IMO it boils down to Priscilla was involved and many people would not want her to walk by Graceland on the public street-let alone be so deeply involved in it after Elvis died. I can understand their feelings-but if Lisa was my daughter I would have done exactly as she did to insure the lifestyle Elvis would have wanted for Lisa.
Priscillas reasons for her actions may be suspect to many-but she did not act alone ........and Lisa, her kids and their kids are set for life.
I am happy as a father to think they are secure, literally for generations......
I do not see the house being open as such a horrid thing....as long as it accomplished the wills purpose and it did.

Some excellent points Ken, I'm not a Cilla fan, but she didn't make any decisions on her own as you have indicated. The risks involved at the time if MissyM is to be believed, that Elvis wasn't a superstar at that time of his death made Cilla's choice extremely difficult.

Some will call Priscilla whatever she does :blush:

[QUOTE=KPM;303522]I have to agree with you totally.
Selling the home was not the way to keep the trust living and growing so that Lisa was taken care of. No Trustee with any sense would have agreed to sell the house-unless every option for keeping the trust solvent had been exhausted.
The sale of the house would have been a "one time deal"-and that would have been that. The chances of Lisa being able to live the life Elvis would have wanted off of the sale of the house is IMO a dream.
Elvis's expressed and implied wish with setting up the trust was to keep Lisa set for life and "he did not prohibit any action which might be needed to insure the trust"
Everyone jumps on Priscilla and the co-executors for doing what the will said-protect the trust. (which was monitoried by the court) The trust was in distress according to the court-action had to be taken. Some want to say it was not in distress, but the court back then did not agree. If the trustees had let the trust go under-people would be saying the opposite today-why did Priscilla and the others let it happen.
All these people involved had the straight unadulterated facts at the time-all options had to be discussed.... (with court supervision and suggestions)
The courts point of view regarding trusts is simple, to keep it solvent and growing for the person the trust was set up for..... the option which accomplished this is the one the court would recommend the trustees go with.
IMO it boils down to Priscilla was involved and many people would not want her to walk by Graceland on the public street-let alone be so deeply involved in it after Elvis died. I can understand their feelings-but if Lisa was my daughter I would have done exactly as she did to insure the lifestyle Elvis would have wanted for Lisa.
Priscillas reasons for her actions may be suspect to many-but she did not act alone ........and Lisa, her kids and their kids are set for life.
I am happy as a father to think they are secure, literally for generations......
I do not see the house being open as such a horrid thing....as long as it accomplished the wills purpose and it did.[/QUOTE
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It was not his obligation to keep his ex-wife or his grandchildren set for life, and if there is that implication in the will, then I'd like to see that.
Opening Graceland was not needed none the less, to keep them set for life. EPE made sure they held the rights to everything (Elvis). (1984)What do you suppose that has generated?? And anyone who was in charge of the trust could have been wise and invested all monies, generating profits for years to come.I am sure they did. All profits in the trust did not come from people visiting Graceland. There was more than enough money generated in other ways.
There is a big difference between providing for your sole heir and making her filthy rich, along with an exwife, and your sole heir's children and grandchildren. They shouldn't even be part of the debate IMO.
Are you telling me that no one has ever put the trust at risk?? Money had to be put into it in order to open it. Now seems to me and I could be wrong, that they would not have had to risk the trust if they had just sold Graceland.
The reality is, with out opening it, EPE would have and has generated millions of dollars on Elvis Likeness, recordings, (movies and everything else). Of course opening it generated millions and millions more. And auctioning off some of his personal effects (which they have done from time to time) would have put more money into the trust. So to assume Lisa would have ended up not with millions had it not been opened is simply not logical.

Elvis has been gone almost 32 years now, there is no telling how many times in that 32 years that Graceland might have changed ownership had they sold it to an individual. Considering what has become of the general area around Graceland it could be totally trashed out, or belong to the local "drug king." I can just imagine seeing a story on 20/20, or maybe by Geraldo Rivera, on what has become of "The King's" mansion all these years later. It doesn't matter to me how many millions Lisa and her kids have made because it was opened to the public, what matters to me is that it has been preserved and kept intact and serves as a place for those of us who loved him to come and pay our respects.

I'll go on record here and say that if I had the option of having my 2 kids "provided for", OR the option of my 2 kids becoming "filthy rich".....I'll take "filthy rich" any day.;)

Excellent post Rosanne! I cannot imagine Graceland not being what it is today. It is the closest we can now get to Elvis. It contains an atmosphere about it that I have not experienced anywhere else. It has been almost 26 years since I have been there and the peace I felt there was unbelieveable. There is no place else that could bring you closer to Elvis. If it had sold and all his things was put in a museum it would not be the same. Graceland is what Elvis loved and there is no where else on earth that you can feel a connection to him like you can at his home.

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Originally Posted by Getlo

Exactly.



I take back what I said. A direct insult at last, as opposed to the passive-aggressive style of your usual standard.

Note well, mods and everyone ... this did not begin with me. AGAIN.

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:blink: Getlo unless your cute and cuddly like Elvis' dog you have there on stage with Elvis' Im afraid I'm honest to a fault. I don't like you. Sorry.
You get away with a lot.. and people who have said less, have been banned...:mad:

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Originally Posted by Getlo

I'll give $1000 to anyone who can explain what this means, or what relevance it has to any previous post on this thread.

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:D
Well then, I guess you owe me and maybe others $1,000 as the relevance is in the fact that you don't believe in stories that are based on honest truth just because you want one's idenity!
I reefuse to reveal who I am, and yes, I have two son's in Iraq and 4 daughters one adopted.
So, if my photp's ring bells, maybe it is me? If not, don't be so quick to think you know who you are talking to and slandering.
Nothing I have offered here is a lie.
That should cover it..

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Originally Posted by Getlo

Spot on.



Precisely. How anyone can be expected to be believed if they simply say "I knew Elvis", then haughtily say "I'm going to stay anonymous, I prefer it that way" just beggars belief.

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:angry: I don't care what you like or don't like Getlo, because you are not my boss or keeper. As I have already stated, one has the right to remain silent.. there is no law that states I have to tell you who I am.. or how well I knew Elvis.
Or for that matter, since you prefer it this way, how little I knew anybody...

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Originally Posted by utmom2008

I agree with you Franny! I don't think asking someone how they have such information is too much to ask.:blush:

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:blush: Rosanne, because it's you, I can say I was there. I just don't care to be known publicaly as I am of no great major importance, but I have known things Elvis said to me, saw and over heard things the MM said to him..
I knew 'Cillia very little, and/or Lisa Marie. I insist she had a white cat, with a small black spoting on the back..in a photo, somewhere of her, this is the cat she is holding...Boy have a been attacked for the one statement..so I am careful.
I know the house, the grounds, and some of the people. I have no reason to lie about it. I do have a reason to remain silently unknown. I truly don't mean it to be snobby, not at all. But fans of Elvis listen up:
Sometimes Larry or Joe or one of the guys, even Ann and sandi miller will say something and nobody knows they were even here...they come on and go off.. I should do the same. Beter than getting banned because you don't want to be known.:hmm: Maybe?

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Originally Posted by utmom2008

Good question.

(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)


My how things have changed. This is a topic that we are hearing about all the time now, yet somewhere along the way the rules have changed. Yes, we have a member now who claims to have known Elvis in a very very close manner, but for some unknown reason it has become off-limits for anyone to question how she knew him, let alone ask for proof.

Another member left last summer over continuous questioning as to how she knew 3 Presidents. One of the mods was in agreement with all of those asking the questions. Again it was said, if you make a large claim such as knowing a President, or knowing Elvis Presley then be ready to show the proof. Or, as one post said Put up or shut up."

Why was it OK to ask those questions 8 or 9 months ago? You can't ask them now without being hit with great hostility. I just wondered....does this bother anyone else?

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:doh: Actually, it really bothers ME! I understand your concerns. I should have kept myself silent as I always suggest to others... there is a huge reason I cannot support the information I know. So I can either leave or be dismissed as a nut, and someday it will all probve out to be as I have stated.
Jess hold the keys to secrets of a lifetime. I trust her with everything.

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Originally Posted by Miss Clawdy

Are you referring to one of my favourite remarks ? Which was by the way not meant flippant like you want to read it!

I think it's Everyone's right to express one's view not matter if others may not bear your opinion or disagree therein with you.

And when posts are being removed or threads closed...I might come to the conclusion that there is no Freedom of Speech allowed here, because the reasons why those actions are taken are really, excuse me....childish.

We are adults discussing Elvis and his concerns, do you think in 'real life' someone would have to leave the table/room because he/she is asking another member for proof or stating disbelief or disagreement ?

The way for example Rosanne is wording questions or opinions, you say it's 'stoaking the coals', I would say it is a part of her personality and I cannot see any ill intent behind it.

I am enjoying the discussion we have here right now and my intentions are not to offend anyone or to be disrespectful at all.

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:P What a very nicely written post.... you sound like a very understanding person.

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Originally Posted by Jumpsuit Junkie

Excuse me but I don't think I have injected any negatives just offered an opinion. If you think that Elvis' home could have been sold to some lovely family and that the trustee's would have taken the time to do that, then far be it for me to put forward my opinion to the contrary.

We are talking about one of the biggest stars EVER born, not some small time Hollywood star. Once the property had been sold there would be no telling who the house would have be sold too down the line.

I believe it is naive to think Graceland wasn't going to draw fans there even if it was sold to another family.

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They did sell Elvis house in L.A. and you never hear anything about that

it doesn't draw a lot of fans there if any.

I heard once the lady from Green Acres bought it and lives there with her husband.

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Originally Posted by Getlo

Other forums are more relaxed about discussing their "opposition". Here, if a thread starts to run another website down, the discussion is closed. Which, depending on your point of view, is either a good or bad thing. I think it's fine: there's a place for every type of Elvis forum.

Elsewhere, if someone wanted to run TCB World down, they have free reign to do so.

I can virtually guarantee that there are just as many complaints about FECC, AEK etc as there are about TCB World. And just as many members leaving, or swapping over to other forums. TCB is no different in that regard.



JJ, when someone comes on here - or anywhere for that matter - saying they "knew" Elvis, or "knew" three presidents, then they have to expect to get called on it. Sparks only fly when they clam up and refuse to offer more than "Oh, I don't have to say anything to the likes of you" or whatever.

As you know, plenty of liars, frauds, fakes and bull****ters abound in the Elvis world. If it's likely someone is spreading crap either about Elvis or their relationship with him ... well, sorry, but they need to be nipped in the bud. There's enough crap going around about Elvis already.

Cameron left because everyone (well, almost everyone) saw through her Reagan and Clinton tales. She will tell you it's because certain posters (myself included, presumably) were aggressive and challenging without reason. And she, along with a couple of others from here who shall remain nameless, have been spending their time on other MBs running this great site down.

Lakeisha left because it was obvious he had multiple ids (here and elsewhere) and he was a rather boring mouthpiece for Sillerman. And I know I wasn't the only one offended by his fake "ghetto black chick/model" personality. Endless posts on the same thing, over and over. No wonder people jacked up.

Genie has told her tales here. People, naturally, have questioned their veracity. And as soon as the questions start, she clams up. As soon as the holes in her tales are pointed out, she's gone, at least for a while. She was exposed - in great detail - over on AEK, so she quit posting there, at least for a while.

So, in the scheme of things, I think it does matter what people say. I'm not talking about specifics like undies or whatever, but bigger things like relationships with Elvis.

And if people don't think things like this matter, just remember ... that's how Wanda June Hill got started. In the pre-internet days, she was allowed virtually free reign and it was difficult to call her on her obviously fraudulent claims.

If someone here did know Elvis, even in a small way, I find it inconceivable that they'd want to keep everything secret and just assume we'd all believe them. I, for one, need something more tangible.

Cheers.

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:notworthy

Not your fault, or mine really...
:blush: I would say that I see my name much more than I would like to see it, as it's always in the negative. I am sorry for my inability (or rather refusal) to support all the true claims I have made and there are many endless ones, 30 years is a long time to be involved. I am lets just say...a woman of honor and class, also a very hard working lady, until recent illness stopped that..I am committed to several people to NOT put my two cents out there, sometimes I can't help it...I am sorry. I want to share it, I know it's all true and can be proven...and upon my Death, it probably will be.
It is not an intentional crime to want to remain in the background.
There are some people I am responsible to protect, some things I cannot freely speak about..I get carried away, and put my foot in my mouth, and I see you are angry and disbelieve everything I have said....
Life is truly as complicated at times as it was for Elvis. I'm just asking that you trust this explanation. It is sincere, I am far from a quack, but I do understand why I am doubted. So, I take no offence.
Sometimes life hangs in the balance of what people say, and their actions, and even that I am not at liberty to explain.
But haven't any of you ever known something, and been so excited by your involvements, yet were sworn to secrecy, by those much bigger than you? Much more capable of getting angry and calling you worse than a liar, but a tattletale? I will just hush about it, if it annoys you all that much.:doh:
There have been many frauds, many people who met Elvis and it turned into a mass of "He was in love with me, and he slept with me at the Hilton.." bla bla bla... these people are seekers of fame, or recognition. I am not.
This stupid machine says my message is too short, keep typing... for heaven sake.. I have said all I wanted to say... all that is important for anyone to know. Jess isn't talking, and she wont. She and some of the inside friends I have know also, they wont be talking either.








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Originally Posted by Jungleroom76

Let this serve as an OFFICIAL WARNING to IMMEDIATELY cease and desist with the personal attacks. We've had enough of this in the other threads recently, and now it seems to have carried over into this one! :angry:

We certainly want everyone to express their opinions freely here in the forum, but expressing opinions does not include personal attacks. If you must make comments to a member which MAY be interpreted as inappropriate for the forum where everyone can see it, then use the PM service.

We don't need to get into a discussion as to who started what, or who said what to whom...we just need these personal and occasionally vindictive attacks to STOP!!!

TCB!
Mike

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:blush:
I'm trying, I really am.................

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Originally Posted by Jess

My two cents, to be fair.

I spoke with both Cameron (a little) and AJ (a lot more) and they are different people.

I spoke with both before any of the fights broke out, especially AJ. Who else did, on here?

Furthermore, AJ is a friend of another poster on here, and they hold a site together. That person, if you want to say something, if you read this, think of something sparkling, for your name.

Cameron was a man!

Getlo, you speak so much like Scott Jenkins (SRJ1967), it's eerie. You act like him, you live in Sydney, I believe that you have indicated that you know him, have the similar work background.

Same thing as the perception of AJ and Cameron.

I also don't think that Cameron had any reason nor motive to lie. He didn't show any ego as I read his posts, it didn't seem in his character.

There are people who spoil it for others; however, it's so easy to spot the fakes, as they are unstable, and trip themselves up, emotionally. There have been some of late in the news and a woman who admitted in the end, that she had a "Ghost and Mrs Muir" relationship with Elvis. She, the poor thing, was very unstable.

Speaking generally, no-one knows for sure who Elvis spoke with, so assumptions on Wanda aren't warranted. Again, if you read what she writes extensively, which I have done, you pick up the type of person she is. With what I've been told, I have my own opinion. I'm not going to fight over it. Mrs Hill is a lovely, lovely, lady, who doesn't need to be knocked on here, being used as an example, as you don't know anything for sure.

This isn't a Court of Law.

Didn't anyone ever teach anyone that it's the quiet people whom you listen to, you watch, and more than likely believe, not the ones who trumpet the most? .

What I believe, when it comes to life, and ruining a trust. All we have is our word, and our honesty. If we don't have that, in my opinion, we have nothing, as an individual. To break a trust, is the worst thing anyone can do to another human being.

Genie is real, I am honest, and no, I'm not gullible.

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:P Thank you Dearest Jess, as usual your sweet sweet spirit comes through when I am at my very worst.. I love you! "Mamma"

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Originally Posted by Genie

:notworthy

Not your fault, or mine really...
:blush: I would say that I see my name much more than I would like to see it, as it's always in the negative. I am sorry for my inability (or rather refusal) to support all the true claims I have made and there are many endless ones, 30 years is a long time to be involved. I am lets just say...a woman of honor and class, also a very hard working lady, until recent illness stopped that..I am committed to several people to NOT put my two cents out there, sometimes I can't help it...I am sorry. I want to share it, I know it's all true and can be proven...and upon my Death, it probably will be.
It is not an intentional crime to want to remain in the background.
There are some people I am responsible to protect, some things I cannot freely speak about..I get carried away, and put my foot in my mouth, and I see you are angry and disbelieve everything I have said....
Life is truly as complicated at times as it was for Elvis. I'm just asking that you trust this explanation. It is sincere, I am far from a quack, but I do understand why I am doubted. So, I take no offence.
Sometimes life hangs in the balance of what people say, and their actions, and even that I am not at liberty to explain.
But haven't any of you ever known something, and been so excited by your involvements, yet were sworn to secrecy, by those much bigger than you? Much more capable of getting angry and calling you worse than a liar, but a tattletale? I will just hush about it, if it annoys you all that much.:doh:
There have been many frauds, many people who met Elvis and it turned into a mass of "He was in love with me, and he slept with me at the Hilton.." bla bla bla... these people are seekers of fame, or recognition. I am not.
This stupid machine says my message is too short, keep typing... for heaven sake.. I have said all I wanted to say... all that is important for anyone to know. Jess isn't talking, and she wont. She and some of the inside friends I have know also, they wont be talking either.








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I respect your desion genie, i agree if i was told something in private and to keep a secret i can do that and respect there desion to!
elvislady :D

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Originally Posted by Brian

They did sell Elvis house in L.A. and you never hear anything about that

it doesn't draw a lot of fans there if any.

I heard once the lady from Green Acres bought it and lives there with her husband.

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The L.A. and/or Palm Springs house/s may not draw a lot of fans, but it does draw some, me being one of them! Graceland would always be the house that gets the fans whether EPE owned or not, because that was his home, not some place he rented whilst making films, or using as a "weekend getaway".;)