TCB - Philosophical Debate

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Originally Posted by KPM

You see I would agree that somethings are "too sacred and special to talk about" but if they are, then you don't-in any way shape or form.
Isn't that the point of something being so special and personal-you keep it to yourself? You make no mention of it because it was between you and someone else-and it was truely special. I feel the same-if a trust or friendship was special-then you keep it confidential.
If I feel it does not betray my confidence to mention the situation then I answer questions about it. I don't think thats out of line. But I would not drop hints, make definitive statements, on a person or confidence unless I felt it was not a betrayal to that person. I think its a fair way of looking at it.

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Always our hero!!!!!

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Originally Posted by KPM

You see I would agree that somethings are "too sacred and special to talk about" but if they are, then you don't-in any way shape or form.
Isn't that the point of something being so special and personal-you keep it to yourself? You make no mention of it because it was between you and someone else-and it was truely special. I feel the same-if a trust or friendship was special-then you keep it confidential.
If I feel it does not betray my confidence to mention the situation then I answer questions about it. I don't think thats out of line. But I would not drop hints, make definitive statements, on a person or confidence unless I felt it was not a betrayal to that person. I think its a fair way of looking at it.

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Excellent points Ken! If you do not want to share something with us then say nothing at all!

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Originally Posted by KPM

You see I would agree that somethings are "too sacred and special to talk about" but if they are, then you don't-in any way shape or form.
Isn't that the point of something being so special and personal-you keep it to yourself? You make no mention of it because it was between you and someone else-and it was truely special. I feel the same-if a trust or friendship was special-then you keep it confidential.
If I feel it does not betray my confidence to mention the situation then I answer questions about it. I don't think thats out of line. But I would not drop hints, make definitive statements, on a person or confidence unless I felt it was not a betrayal to that person. I think its a fair way of looking at it.

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Absolutely FANTASTIC post Ken!(y)(y)
It will be interesting to see how this is responded to(or IF it's responded to)...I certainly consider you one of my "friends", hope that doesn't spell t-r-o-u-b-l-e for you!;):lol::lol:

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Originally Posted by Getlo

Once again, you cower behind indirect insults like this. I can only assume your smarminess refers to me here, though you never, ever have the guts to say things directly (still waiting for you to tel us all "who" and "what" you "know" I am, by the way). I defy you to find any post on the philosophical thread or anywhere else that fits the criteria you have described above.

You talk about refining insults to follow the rules? You are the mistress of that. :mad:

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:angry: Oh be real for a change of pace.....your personality flows throughout and many people are taken aback by your stray dog comments.
When you get nailed, we are to come forth with reading thousands of entries to prove it to you? Thanks, I'd rather dig for fishing woms in my muddy back yard.

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Originally Posted by Getlo

You defend him with blinders, perhaps that's the reason? And what crap, exactly, are you talking about? The drugs? The weight? The bizarre behaviour?

Look at the forum. There are more threads about his music, his concerts and other "positive" aspects of his life than these so-called "negatives", so your complaints and those from others are quite baseless.



More elitism. A fan is a fan is a fan. And you call yourself a fan after questioning the veracity of others on here? That is pathetic.



And what's the point in even asking that? Your implication is that fans who choose (see that word, some of you? ... CHOOSE!) to discuss other aspects of his life don't accept Elvis because of how he was. That's patently untrue.



There are times when this was true. A balanced look at Elvis' life must reflect this properly.



Wrong. The MM's stories (most of them anyway) have been verified, documented and proven. Once again, not one of you who complain about the MM have come out and shown otherwise. The MM have been subjected to the same rigours of proof that others have.



I rag on JS because he is a suck-up to EPE, not for any compassion he shows. And if you can't see compassion in the MM's works, you're not reading them properly.

......

Once again, it has come to this, something that has been discussed on many threads ... including this one already, so it amazes me that certain posters here are up to their old tricks after several weeks of good behaviour with everyone getting along relatively well (especially since you-know-who threw her hissy fit and buggered off).

If you don't want to discuss "negative" aspects of Elvis' life, here's a crazy thought: DON'T.

But don't come into this thread putting s**t on the rest of us who choose (yeah, CHOOSE!) to do so. Once again, the vast majority of threads on this site are NOT about the negatives.

You want to only talk about the nice things? Go ahead. And you'll notice that those of us who CHOOSE to discuss every type of aspect of Elvis' life will not come into your threads to hijack them.

So why on earth are you all so rude enough to do it to us?

Don't like a thread? DON'T POST ON THE BLOODY THING!

HOW MANY TIMES must this be uttered before people get this simple concept?!

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:angry:
:doh:Yes, granted we should keep some of our obnoxious thoughts to ourselves... and the proof in the pudding is that the MM are a disease waiting to mutate to every other fan on earth.
They may be documented, they may be a lot of things, but "FRIENDS" of Elvis, no they were not! Exceptions : Possibly 3 I can think of.
They have big mouths and love to spread it thick.....if it brings in big bucks to rat on someone as beautiful as Elvis..they didn't care and still don't.
It takes a certain class and style, to KNOW truth and hold it to yourself.
Make a million? Shock the world? HA!!!!!!! I know plenty and I wont give it up for anyone at any price...I'll take it and him to my death.

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Originally Posted by Genie

When you get nailed

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When I what?! :lmfao: Once again, please find any thread where I have been "nailed" by you. Or where I have backed off when facts are presented that contradict what I have said. Shouldn't take you too long.

Jess said the same thing; no response there either.

If you think I do this all the time, well then, it shouldn't be too long before you catch me out again and then you can point it out for all to see, now should it? :rolleyes:

I do not pretend I am correct all the time; but don't spread falsehoods about me.

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Originally Posted by Genie

we are to come forth with reading thousands of entries to prove it to you?

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When you make a spurious allegation that I back away when "nailed", then yes. Either have the courage to back yourself up, or back the hell off.

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Originally Posted by Genie

and the proof in the pudding is that the MM are a disease waiting to mutate to every other fan on earth.

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Pure insanity.

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Originally Posted by Genie

They may be documented, they may be a lot of things, but "FRIENDS" of Elvis, no they were not!

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Yeah, right. That's why Elvis kept them on for years and years. Good one. :lmfao:

And had the fallout in '76 never happened, you'd be saying they were great guys. One fallout, one mistake, one whatever does not ruin the reputations of decades of friendship.

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Originally Posted by Genie

They have big mouths and love to spread it thick

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People like you keep saying stuff like that. Lies, lies, lies ... oh, the lies, you opine. And yet, each and every time I or someone else here challenges you to list the "lies" featured in EWH and the like, you run. Nothing ... nothing! ... that the MM have said has been proven wrong. Nothing!

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Originally Posted by Genie

Make a million?

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Red and Sonny barely made a couple of thousand off EWH. More research needed.

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Originally Posted by Genie

I know plenty

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Really? One couldn't possibly glean that opinion from any of the comments about your "friendship" with Elvis that you've posted here. Or the amazing insight you had into what Elvis was like on stage and off. Your "facts" can be easily obtained from books and the like. Sometimes even word for word! ;)

I'd be interested if we ran a poll here: Do you believe Genie/Aladdin; yes or no? The results would be entertaining.

As KPM said elsewhere, to "drop hints" like you have been doing is disingenuous at best, and outright lies at worst.

If you knew Elvis, fine. Then tell us more. But don't waste the time of intelligent and discerning posters here by saying you knew him, then not coming forth with anything else apart from that. It's nonsense, and anyone who believes you based solely on that one statement needs their head read.

Your dates and times just don't add up. Nor do any of your tales here and over on AEK.

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Originally Posted by Genie

I wont give it up for anyone at any price...

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Then stop wasting our time. So you knew Elvis? Great. Fine. But if you're not willing to add anything more, just stow it.

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Originally Posted by Genie

I'll take it and him to my death.

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Don't tease me now ... :blush:

If you knew "plenty" about the real Elvis, as you say, you should be out there either writing a book (you know, with sources, evidence etc) and trying to right all the wrongs.

But you're not, are you? You're here on the sidelines, complaining about the "evil" MM and doing nothing about it.

If you take it all to your grave, then how will anyone know what really happened?! :rolleyes:

PS: THE COMMENTS TO WHICH YOU REPLIED ABOVE ARE MONTHS OLD, AND WERE DIRECTED TO OUR OLD FEMALE FRIEND CAMERON.

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Originally Posted by MissyM

So it's the fans fault Diane?? Ok, Elvis was never rude to his fans. And I'm sorry it goes with the territory. She gets paid millions to entertain the fans. And yes, she can be a real witch at times. (both publically and privately) There are stories from reliable people out there if one chooses to read.
I'm not saying that at times, the public is alway easy and there are always going to be the nutcases around. No one expects her to be perfect. But let me tell you the fans have always served a purpose to her. She is a business women first and foremost and Elvis has been on some level a commodity to her. Now in some ways that's not all bad because face it, fans have benefitted from that. So it's worked out well for both. But if anyone thinks this is all about her great love for Elvis, that's just silly. The women likes being the center of attention. She didn't always, but she ended up that way. But of course it has it's downside. She has purposely and intentionally made herself a celeb. Many of them get frustrated with the down side of it. And Priscilla is no different.
But the bottom line is that when it came to gratefullness, Elvis had more class in is little finger for the (biggest part of his life-barring some of the weird things he said towards the end) than she had in her whole body when it came to the fans.

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Are you being sarcastic here or are you saying Elvis was never rude to his fans?

Not being sarcastic. I think he was rude sometimes but I didn't want to go into an explaination of how. I think for the most part Elvis was fabulous to his fans. More caring than many stars.
My main point being that I am not of the mind set that Priscilla was ever forced to do anything. And I think she very much enjoys the celeb status she has carved out through being who she was. Now, since I have known some people who have seen her interact, (people I trust) I say she is not always the nicest. As long as no one crosses a line, then I think they should be treated a certain way and she doesn't always. But I'll cut her some slack because not everyone is on their best behavior all the time either. And I have to give credit to the fans because thus far I have not heard of them treating her badly. So I can not shift any blame to them. Elvis is a commodity to her. Do I think it can be both ways. Yes, I think she could have very special rememberances of her wedding day, and also the realization of just how lucky that ended up being.

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Originally Posted by MissyM

Not being sarcastic. I think he was rude sometimes but I didn't want to go into an explaination of how. I think for the most part Elvis was fabulous to his fans. More caring than many stars.
My main point being that I am not of the mind set that Priscilla was ever forced to do anything. And I think she very much enjoys the celeb status she has carved out through being who she was. Now, since I have known some people who have seen her interact, (people I trust) I say she is not always the nicest. As long as no one crosses a line, then I think they should be treated a certain way and she doesn't always. But I'll cut her some slack because not everyone is on their best behavior all the time either. And I have to give credit to the fans because thus far I have not heard of them treating her badly. So I can not shift any blame to them. Elvis is a commodity to her. Do I think it can be both ways. Yes, I think she could have very special rememberances of her wedding day, and also the realization of just how lucky that ended up being.

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I have not heard of him being rude to fans? could you give me a example of his level of rudeness please, i am not being sarcastic here just i have not heard it before.
elvislady;)

I think it's rude to go off on an angry tangent when people have come to hear you sing, paid for a ticket and ect.

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Originally Posted by MissyM

I think it's rude to go off on an angry tangent when people have come to hear you sing, paid for a ticket and ect.

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More drug-addled than rude ... but the end result was the same.

Exactly. One can rationalize, understand, and excuse it, but in the end, it was not nice to do, see, or hear.
I've been at concerts in which the performer was on drug, drunk or both. A few of the band members acted like fools. I never went to see them after that. I didn't drive an hour and a half, pay 50 bucks a ticket (it was a while ago), to watch that stuff. It is the same for other venues, professionalism is a courtesy to your fans.

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Originally Posted by MissyM

I think it's rude to go off on an angry tangent when people have come to hear you sing, paid for a ticket and ect.

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Thankyou missy!
elvislady:)

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Originally Posted by MissyM

I think it's rude to go off on an angry tangent when people have come to hear you sing, paid for a ticket and ect.

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To be fair to Elvis the drug fuelled rants were not that often..

There was also a context to why, as one of our members here explained, who was at one of those concerts! (Instead of people who refer to those ruddy books!).

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Originally Posted by Jess

There was also a context to why, as one of our members here explained, who was at one of those concerts! (Instead of people who refer to those ruddy books!).

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:supriced:Who was at Elvis' concert when he was on one of his tangents?:supriced:

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Originally Posted by utmom2008

:supriced:Who was at Elvis' concert when he was on one of his tangents?:supriced:

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Elvis was rightly defending himself, as our TCB member explained....the member from here, was upset at what the books said, too (it appears that most who were there, are). He went on to say that the audience cheered Elvis on, as they were witnessing what happened.

If the Member doesn't read and reply to this in the next few days, I'll start a new thread so he can see and reply...I don't remember who it was (sorry to the TCB member, too).

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Originally Posted by Jess

If the Member doesn't read and reply to this in the next few days, I'll start a new thread so he can see and reply...I don't remember who it was (sorry to the TCB member, too).

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Good idea....I would like to hear more!:D

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Originally Posted by Jess

Elvis was rightly defending himself, as our TCB member explained....the member from here, was upset at what the books said

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What books would they be?

Elvis was defending himself against the tabloid magazines of the day, which hinted at Elvis' drug use.

The only thing they got wrong was the types of drugs he was using.

They said cocaine (and heroin in one case), but it was prescription drugs as we now know.

As bad as tabloids can be, there is a grain of truth in 99% of the stories that are written about the stars.

The magazines were spot on about Elvis. Just wrong about the cocaine.

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Originally Posted by Getlo

What books would they be?

Elvis was defending himself against the tabloid magazines of the day, which hinted at Elvis' drug use.

The only thing they got wrong was the types of drugs he was using.

They said cocaine (and heroin in one case), but it was prescription drugs as we now know.

As bad as tabloids can be, there is a grain of truth in 99% of the stories that are written about the stars.

The magazines were spot on about Elvis. Just wrong about the cocaine.

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Please respect my wishes, I have no desire to interact with you.