From NY Times-How Did Elvis get turned into a racist?

Elvis was no racist, but that doesn't mean he wasn't capable of doing or saying racist things occasionally (as we all are to one extent or another).

An example is the song Wings of An Angel, featured on a few bootlegs, and guaranteed never to be released by EPE.

I'll edit it here, but for those of you who haven't heard it, he sings:

"Oh, if I had the wings of an angel,
And the b***s of a big, hairy XXXX ..."

I won't write the word here, so I've put XXXX instead. You can bet that he wasn't singing about the small, furry animal either! (If you haven't heard the song, it's an expression that is a degrogratory term - not as bad as the N-word, but in a similar vein).

You can hear it as Elvis and the band crack up at the "double entendre" of it all, and he's clearly engaging in offensive and politically incorrect behaviour.

A racist moment, certainly, but one that is not indicative of the majority of his attitudes and behaviours.

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Originally Posted by srj1967

Elvis was no racist, but that doesn't mean he wasn't capable of doing or saying racist things occasionally (as we all are to one extent or another).

An example is the song Wings of An Angel, featured on a few bootlegs, and guaranteed never to be released by EPE.

I'll edit it here, but for those of you who haven't heard it, he sings:

"Oh, if I had the wings of an angel,
And the b***s of a big, hairy XXXX ..."

I won't write the word here, so I've put XXXX instead. You can bet that he wasn't singing about the small, furry animal either! (If you haven't heard the song, it's an expression that is a degrogratory term - not as bad as the N-word, but in a similar vein).

You can hear it as Elvis and the band crack up at the "double entendre" of it all, and he's clearly engaging in offensive and politically incorrect behaviour.

A racist moment, certainly, but one that is not indicative of the majority of his attitudes and behaviours.

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Ok that is an opinion and maybe has some validity. But I don't believe it to be true. It is a term used, not so much anymore, in the south for Blacks. It is also used for the animal, as so many people in the south hunted them for hides and even for the meat. I've heard it both ways, being from the south, and in jokes both ways. The context, the way he said it, and other factors of the way he was, i do believe we are talking about the "small furry animal" which can get quite large and vicious and will attack a whole pack of hounds if cornered and sometimes win. I know because my uncle and grandfather both had coonhounds. If you have ever witnessed one mad or fighting they are big time vicious and nasty and brave. So, over conversations, I have heard almost that exact phrase used to describe over the edge reckless bravery or bravado, and they weren't the only ones that said it that way. My relatives were country folk in the south and raised and picked cotton for a living. Grew up around the same time as Elvis. (my parents etc.. ) and they have heard in that context before too.
I have heard the word used as racial also but it is used differently. Not in that context but to describe "stupid, ignorant, worthless etc..". Much different.

Great article, thank you for sharing it with us. I'm going to save it as a piece of gold. Elvis Presley Enterprises should do more effort to pull down the racist clich? regarding Elvis.

what word are we dancing around here? (ra)coon?

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Originally Posted by Menwithbrokenhearts

i do believe we are talking about the "small furry animal" which can get quite large and vicious and will attack a whole pack of hounds if cornered and sometimes win.

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Oh, come on ... :hmm::doh::doh::doh:

Knhow what everyone have little racist in them, if they are white, black or other, racist be around first time of life, I know I got little racist in me and it not do witth white and black thing, I don't belevie in that, it's how you treat me, one year and my last year in high school, I turn for Football, I play the game, but I was the football manger few years before that, I know things work, so I was at the line have my turn to get in Db spot and one coach say you can't be here you too small and you don't know how play the DB this Coach never know me that's make him racist, maybe or maybe not.
If Elvis was racist who cares about now, liked I say everyone is racist to point.
Everyone you what know my racist is.
my racist is People that think they are know all about things, it's biggest over off for me and another thing, people don't understand about me, I was born with speech trouble it was from a stroke at birth, It took me long time found right women, who love as i'm. I'm not rasied my Daugther be racist, if she came racist, I will do my best tell her that life is to short be a racist because of we are., I'm sorry this burn my A@#$.
Tom

SRJ1967-First off you are only speaking for yourself when you say "all people use a racial slur now and then". Because I don't and I am from the south. My girlfriend happens to be an African American and my childhood best friend was a black guy and his sister was my second best friend. So I'm not one of those who you claim to use a racial slur here and there.

Second-The term "coon" that EP used in that song had nothing to do with black people, even though that was sometimes used back in the old south as a racial slur aimed at blacks by whites. But EP's version was about the animal. Nothing more. EP as a child used to go with his uncle and hunt rabbits, squirrels and yes coons. And coons are known to have big hairy balls too. So that was the meaning behind the words which was EP just being goofy in the studio.

Besides if EP had meant that to be a racial slur towards black people, then I doubt seriously he would have done If I Can Dream or In The Ghetto or Walk A Mile In My Shoes shortly afterwards. Think about that for a moment before assuming.

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Originally Posted by EP75

SRJ1967-First off you are only speaking for yourself when you say "all people use a racial slur now and then".

Besides if EP had meant that to be a racial slur towards black people, then I doubt seriously he would have done If I Can Dream or In The Ghetto or Walk A Mile In My Shoes shortly afterwards. Think about that for a moment before assuming.

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Firstly, I said, "Elvis was no racist, but that doesn't mean he wasn't capable of doing or saying racist things occasionally (as we all are to one extent or another)", not that everyone uses a "racial slur now and then".

Secondly, what has recording In the Ghetto etc got to do with anything? You don't mean to say that, in all the time he was with the MM etc, that he could never have told a racist joke, made an off-colour comment now and then? Just because he probably did this doesn't mean he was a racist, so he would still have recorded these songs anyway.

Seriously, if you think Elvis and the rest of those good ol' white boys were laughing so hard at a song which had only one meaning (ie the raccoon) then you're truly deluding yourself here ... it's the double meaning of the song which makes it so "amusing" to some.

All opinions seem valid enough to me. So nobody is deluding himself here.

I like the discussion, don't ruin it.

Sonny

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Originally Posted by srj1967

Firstly, I said, "Elvis was no racist, but that doesn't mean he wasn't capable of doing or saying racist things occasionally (as we all are to one extent or another)", not that everyone uses a "racial slur now and then".

Secondly, what has recording In the Ghetto etc got to do with anything? You don't mean to say that, in all the time he was with the MM etc, that he could never have told a racist joke, made an off-colour comment now and then? Just because he probably did this doesn't mean he was a racist, so he would still have recorded these songs anyway.

Seriously, if you think Elvis and the rest of those good ol' white boys were laughing so hard at a song which had only one meaning (ie the raccoon) then you're truly deluding yourself here ...

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I'm sorry but you are wrong about this. EP had no intentions of making that song into a racial slap in the face of black people. EP wasn't like other southerners and it showed by his cultural influence, his love for black muisc, and black people. Everyone that ever worked with him or even knew him has said how much he respected, loved and cared for black culture. If you ask me, I think this insults many white EP fans so they come back with EP said this and that and meant it as a typical racial slur, just like the rest of the "good ol' white boys". Most of the Mafia was racist. Marty, Sonny, Red, and even Lamar have all shown their true colors over the years. That is why they singled out Jerry and George because they were like EP and saw things differently. They also didn't like Joe Esposito who isn't white by the way. And this really aggravates me as a white man and a lifelong EP fan.

No wonder black people are confused about EP. It's bad enough they think he was a racist in the first place and now it's even worse that his fans make accusations like these that are not true.(n)

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Originally Posted by EP75

I'm sorry but you are wrong about this. EP had no intentions of making that song into a racial slap in the face of black people.

Most of the Mafia was racist. Marty, Sonny, Red, and even Lamar have all shown their true colors over the years. That is why they singled out Jerry and George because they were like EP and saw things differently.

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Good Lord, you are taking this completely the wrong way. The song was a bit of fun in the studio, nothing more. But to deny that the song has a double meaning (the second of which is clearly racist) is rather naive.

Secondly, "Most of the MM was racist". How so? Because they didn't like Joe? Joe was a pain in the ***, and the MM's jealousy was primarily based on Joe being somewhat more intelligent that the rest of them.

And if you think that Elvis never ... ever ... made a racist or sexist or whateverist comment in his life ... then I don't know what to say. No one ... and I mean no one ... can go through life without slipping into some "politically incorrect" mode now and then, even if it's to a minuscule extent. You mean you've never told a joke that exemplifies a certain racial stereotype? An Irishman goes into a bar ... etc. And I'm sure Elvis laughed at Poish jokes now and then.

And IMO you can bet that if, say, James Brown was in the studio that day, Elvis and the boys would not have jammed on Wings of an Angel!

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Originally Posted by srj1967

Good Lord, you are taking this completely the wrong way. The song was a bit of fun in the studio, nothing more. But to deny that the song has a double meaning (the second of which is clearly racist) is rather naive.

Secondly, "Most of the MM was racist". How so? Because they didn't like Joe? Joe was a pain in the ***, and the MM's jealousy was primarily based on Joe being somewhat more intelligent that the rest of them.

And if you think that Elvis never ... ever ... made a racist or sexist or whateverist comment in his life ... then I don't know what to say. No one ... and I mean no one ... can go through life without slipping into some "politically incorrect" mode now and then, even if it's to a minuscule extent. You mean you've never told a joke that exemplifies a certain racial stereotype? An Irishman goes into a bar ... etc. And I'm sure Elvis laughed at Poish jokes now and then.

And IMO you can bet that if, say, James Brown was in the studio that day, Elvis and the boys would not have jammed on Wings of an Angel!

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The first time I heard it I thought it was just guys goofing around. When you are goofing with the guys things pop out which are not "politically correct" a lot of time, it doesn't mean you are a racist. Black people make jokes at the expense of whites also inpublic & private I'm sure. Check out some of Chris Rocks comedy videos. But they do not mean he hates whites.

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Originally Posted by KPM

When you are goofing with the guys things pop out which are not "politically correct" a lot of time, it doesn't mean you are a racist.

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Yes, I know that. Read the earlier parts of the thread; I'm not saying Elvis was a racist. But that, like most if not all people, he was capable of being what they call these days "politically incorrect" in private.

I am not suggesting Elvis was one step away from wearing a bedsheet on his head and burning crosses!

A racist is, IMO, one who believes they are superior to another race based solely on the colour of their skin, and I don't believe for a second Elvis was that.

Like I said, if James Brown or another black artist was in the studio that day, there's no way Elvis and the boys would've jammed on the song - even if it was just about a raccoon!! :doh:

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Originally Posted by srj1967

Yes, I know that. Read the earlier parts of the thread; I'm not saying Elvis was a racist. But that, like most if not all people, he was capable of being what they call these days "politically incorrect" in private.

I am not suggesting Elvis was one step away from wearing a bedsheet on his head and burning crosses!

A racist is, IMO, one who believes they are superior to another race based solely on the colour of their skin, and I don't believe for a second Elvis was that.

Like I said, if James Brown or another black artist was in the studio that day, there's no way Elvis and the boys would've jammed on the song - even if it was just about a raccoon!! :doh:

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I guess you misunderstood my post or I was not clear. I was agreeing with you in my own way.(y)

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Originally Posted by KPM

I guess you misunderstood my post or I was not clear. I was agreeing with you in my own way.(y)

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Right-o then! (y)

For better or for worse, this topic conveys some interesting opinions and articles about this controversial subject.

To be honest, I don't worry about Elvis being called a racist - for I know that even if you'd deny your white roots and would praise the blacks as being far superior, they would still call you a racist.

Hip-hoppers and such have a big mouth and I despise this, it's a disease for our youth - don't get me wrong, current Rhythm 'n Blues is nothing like the music from Elvis' days - what bothers me is that this modern hip-hop and R&B makes the 12yo girls want to be *****es and the 13yo boys pimps. If people said that Elvis was crazy and dangerous in the 50's, what would those people have said in comparison?

Philosophically, my own take on blacks is not unlike that of the Rastafarians, who acknowledge they come from Africa and will always have a bond with that continent.

I think the Democratic Party would even have supported Native American rights in the 60's if these people would still amount to a considerable number of the population, but without that political reason (to win the black votes for the Democrats) I don't think America would have done a lot for black people.

I don't categorically dislike blacks, but in these days it's a valid reason to appreciate music just because it's black. I don't find interesting black music on MTV, but I do like Mahalia Jackson and Louis Armstrong as musicians - but that's because of quality and a decent mentality, not because of color.

To make a long story short, it's good to see that some things are straightened out. I've often thought that if you think Elvis was a terrible person, you ain't seen nothing in this world, haha!