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View Full Version : New "Elvis Presley Gladiators" DVD To Debut in Fall 2009



welly103
07-16-2009, 06:14 PM
Just saw this posted and thought it was pretty cool, gonna have to get this! Article posted on elvis.com.

For nearly two decades, Elvis Presley practiced the art of karate with skill and enormous dedication. The discipline brought a thrilling new physicality to his film and stage performances, but fans have never before had the chance to see the King in authentic action until now.

A collector’s edition set from Madacy Entertainment available this Fall provides exactly that opportunity, bringing together footage from Elvis’ never-completed martial arts epic The New Gladiators along with insightful commentary by fellow-enthusiast Wayne Carman who was with Elvis when much of the footage was shot.

This exciting NEW collectors set also includes an informative booklet that explores the singer’s relationship with the art of karate, an evocative photo-retrospective and six collectable postcards.

Elvis Presley Gladiators – The 1974 Elvis Karate Legacy Project will be available at Graceland in the fall and fans will soon be able to pre-order this exciting new product on shopelvis.com.

Pacerstar
07-16-2009, 07:05 PM
Just saw this posted and thought it was pretty cool, gonna have to get this! Article posted on elvis.com.

For nearly two decades, Elvis Presley practiced the art of karate with skill and enormous dedication. The discipline brought a thrilling new physicality to his film and stage performances, but fans have never before had the chance to see the King in authentic action until now.

A collector’s edition set from Madacy Entertainment available this Fall provides exactly that opportunity, bringing together footage from Elvis’ never-completed martial arts epic The New Gladiators along with insightful commentary by fellow-enthusiast Wayne Carman who was with Elvis when much of the footage was shot.

This exciting NEW collectors set also includes an informative booklet that explores the singer’s relationship with the art of karate, an evocative photo-retrospective and six collectable postcards.

Elvis Presley Gladiators – The 1974 Elvis Karate Legacy Project will be available at Graceland in the fall and fans will soon be able to pre-order this exciting new product on shopelvis.com.

Thanks for the post. This should be a great acquisition to my movie collection.(y)(y)(y)(y)

Getlo
08-29-2009, 01:45 AM
Got my copy yesterday.

It's pretty cool. Only goes for a little less than 50 minutes though, so bear that in mind if you're paying for it.

But the sound? It's atrocious! It's hissy and you can barely hear anything. Subtitles would have been a good option for the DVD, but they're not available.

It's all the footage that was shot, so there's quite a bit without Elvis (ie he's there, but behind camera).

Coolest stuff was featuring Bill "Superfoot" Wallace. Elvis presents him with his next black belt degree in one scene, and I have to laugh ... I wonder if Bill took Elvis seriously as a martial artist? From the look on his face in some scenes as Elvis is talking, I'd have to say no.

As for the Elvis footage itself ... it's very clear. As for Elvis himself ... very cool, although it's painfully obvious sometimes that he's not quite with it.

The DVD includes six collector postards and a nice little booklet. There's a photo gallery of 50 pics. The "raw footage" in the extras is just the doco without martial artist Wayne Carmen's commentary, which plays automatically when you start the DVD. And there's an audio interview with Wayne. The "More Elvis" in the extras is just a screen ad for Wayne's book, Elvis' Karate Legacy.

I'm glad The New Gladiators itself never got made though. Here is what was purportedly supposed to be the final scene, from some written rough scene workouts ...

"Ending of film - on a remote hill, the camera is on a close up of Elvis as he stands in fighting stance. The camera zooms back as he does a middle punch with a kee yah and we see what looks like every karateka in the world doing the moves with him. He then does The Lord's Prayer in Indian Sign Language as a soft wind gently blows around him. The picture ends with The Beginning written across the screen".

Hmmm ... The Lord's Prayer in Indian Sign Language?! Like all martial arts docos of the time, this would have been a pretentious load of bollocks by the sounds of it!

But overall, Gladiators (this is the actual title of the DVD, not The New Gladiators) is an interesting look at Elvis and his karate. I would've liked more info on the pre-1974 karate stuff. ie how he got into it etc.

Brian
08-29-2009, 05:08 AM
Coolest stuff was featuring Bill "Superfoot" Wallace. Elvis presents him with his next black belt degree in one scene, and I have to laugh ... I wonder if Bill took Elvis seriously as a martial artist? From the look on his face in some scenes as Elvis is talking, I'd have to say no.

.

I don't know what to think of Elvis as a martial artist, I don't know anything about it and a lot of people that are big names in the field say Elvis was quite good at it including Chuck Norris, but a lot of fans think Elvis was complete crap at it even though he was reportedly a geniune first degree black belt.
:hmm:

Getlo
08-29-2009, 05:40 AM
I don't know what to think of Elvis as a martial artist, I don't know anything about it

Elvis was okay, but he certainly was nothing great. Some of the '74 footage is a little embarrassing.

TCB4ELVIS
08-29-2009, 04:03 PM
Getlo , thanks for breaking down the DVD for us. I met someone who used to live near Graceland and he told me his mother would always stand outside the gates of Graceland and used to follow Elvis everywhere. She got all kinds of autographs and he even knew her by name.
He told me that Elvis would practice in a Karate studio in Memphis where his friend was studying it. He said that they weren't allowed to practice with him in fear of Elvis getting hurt and it could ruin his physical looks but this one time Elvis insisted that he'd be treated like everyone else and his friend was called to practice with Elvis, he said that, that one day Elvis took the mat and he was far from being impressed with his Karate skills and knew his belts had to have been a result of instructors being star struck or paid off.
I normally take stories that people tell me like this one as a 50/50% chance that it's true but he had this serious look in his eyes and manyphotos of himself and his mother,ranging from 1973-1975 with Elvis by Graceland, Dinners, Car lots, Jewelry Store and one at a Gun Shop. He said that after 75 it was rare that they saw Elvis go anywhere in Memphis like he used to.

EnigmaticSun
08-29-2009, 04:24 PM
Elvis was okay, but he certainly was nothing great. Some of the '74 footage is a little embarrassing.

To become as good a martial artist as he was a singer, he would have needed that much practice and time. Yes the talent was there and even if he was ill he could still deliver a punch or kick.

Jungleroom76
08-29-2009, 10:34 PM
Got my copy yesterday.

Thanks for the detailed review of the GLADIATORS DVD. I was hoping someone would provide us an inside look at the DVD, for those of us on the fence about whether to pick it up or not! (y)

Although it doesn't sound like a must-have, it does sound intriguing and certainly gives us fans a glimpse into Elvis' personal life in 1974 which, as we all know, was plagued by many up's and down's!! And I have to admit that even though it only runs for 50 minutes, Graceland is only charging $14.95 for the DVD, which I don't think is too bad of a price. :hmm:

Thanks again for the info. Getlo!! :D

TCB!
Mike

Jungleroom76
08-29-2009, 10:35 PM
Elvis Presley Gladiators – The 1974 Elvis Karate Legacy Project will be available at Graceland in the fall and fans will soon be able to pre-order this exciting new product on shopelvis.com.

Actually, it's available now on the Shop Elvis website for $14.95 (U.S. dollars). (y)

TCB!
Mike

KPM
08-30-2009, 02:36 AM
I have an issue of Black Belt magazine which had a several page article on Elvis and his interest and ability as a martial artist.
According to John Corcoran who wrote the article for Black Belt-Elvis was a very credible black belt. He also mentions his association with Bill Wallace and Chuck Norris. Wallace spoke of Elvis helping him get over a serious leg injury by having a special acupuncturist flown in to treat Wallaces injured leg-which worked.
Norris has said Elvis was devoted to the art and opened it up to millions who had no interest in it.
Once someone asked Chuck Norris who would have won in a fight between Mike Stone ( Norris recommended Stone as a tutor for Priscilla) and Elvis..... Chuck said Stone-but he added Elvis is the master on stage and Stone could not compete with Elvis ever in that arena.
Elvis is in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame in New York-and it was for his devotion to the art and his work in expanding the art to the world.
I will say this about his ability-I have a friend who is a plain black belt-and it only took one round house kick pass my nose in fun to show me how much that black belt stood for. :)

Getlo
08-30-2009, 03:23 AM
Although it doesn't sound like a must-have,

It isn't, unless you're an absolute completist. But it's interesting.

Another thing the DVD has is one of the '68 Special karate sequences, directly ripped off (in 7/10 picture quality) from the DVD! Relatively relevant I suppose, but a bit pointless.

I wonder if EPE knows about this release? After all, it mentions "Elvis Presley" on the cover and that's now a trademark.

Junebug
08-30-2009, 04:09 AM
It isn't, unless you're an absolute completist. But it's interesting.

Another thing the DVD has is one of the '68 Special karate sequences, directly ripped off (in 7/10 picture quality) from the DVD! Relatively relevant I suppose, but a bit pointless.

I wonder if EPE knows about this release? After all, it mentions "Elvis Presley" on the cover and that's now a trademark.


We could assume EPE does know about the release if it is on the ShopElvis website. Does EPE know about the '68 Special karate sequence in the DVD? We could think so here too.

But then again, maybe the left hand doesn't know what the right-hand is doing.

:blink::blink::blink:

Getlo
08-30-2009, 07:47 AM
Does EPE know about the '68 Special karate sequence in the DVD?

If they do, then they deserve to be flogged, as the pic quality of the sequence is quite poor.

There is no excuse, with digital technology, for the sequence not to have been taken from the original DVD is pristine quality.

debtdbruno
08-30-2009, 11:53 AM
I have an issue of Black Belt magazine which had a several page article on Elvis and his interest and ability as a martial artist.
According to John Corcoran who wrote the article for Black Belt-Elvis was a very credible black belt. He also mentions his association with Bill Wallace and Chuck Norris. Wallace spoke of Elvis helping him get over a serious leg injury by having a special acupuncturist flown in to treat Wallaces injured leg-which worked.
Norris has said Elvis was devoted to the art and opened it up to millions who had no interest in it.
Once someone asked Chuck Norris who would have won in a fight between Mike Stone ( Norris recommended Stone as a tutor for Priscilla) and Elvis..... Chuck said Stone-but he added Elvis is the master on stage and Stone could not compete with Elvis ever in that arena.
Elvis is in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame in New York-and it was for his devotion to the art and his work in expanding the art to the world.
I will say this about his ability-I have a friend who is a plain black belt-and it only took one round house kick pass my nose in fun to show me how much that black belt stood for. :)


Thanks Ken, didn't know that. Must have been pretty good to be in there then

roytcbintheuk
08-30-2009, 01:05 PM
Elvis studied the art from 1959 whilst he was still in the army, you can get a black belt in one to two years if you study hard enough, Elvis rarely fought one to one but he knew all the moves to attack and defend himself, thats what a "KATA" is a series of moves that Elvis did many times on stage a lot of Elvis's stage moves in the 70's are based on karate which means open hand.In aloha when he sings s.minds and he goes down on one knee (i hope this suit does'nt tear up baby)is also a karate excersise.Elvis an 8th dan black belt is questionable but he certainly deserved a black belt status.Elvis was also Inducted along side Bruce Lee and chuck norris in the New York Karate hall of fame in 2005.

roytcbintheuk
08-30-2009, 01:32 PM
I would like to add to my previous comments about the "Gladiators" DVD I saw this film many years ago so I know it's content.what Elvis is doing is giving a demonstration on what to do in certain situations and not one to one combat or Kata's so you cannot judge his ability by this film alone but I can tell you if he connected any of these moves at full force you would be taken to the nearest hospital or even the funeral parlour.
There is also some great film of Elvis doing Karate on stage from unofficial sources which is great to watch in fact the legal DVD Elvis the Beauty Queen and me which is due to be released features a lot of karate stuff from around the time of the Gladiators film,I must say I love this stuff and thought Elvis looked fantastic.If you are interested in Elvis's passion for karate read the Wayne Carmen book Elvis Karate Legacy.

8mmlowa
08-30-2009, 01:35 PM
i talked to all of this karate guys personally incl big foot ...and i take this as an expertise....not a fan who is negative all the time in any aspect ...or wanted to see something and making up his mind from that.
being in the martial arts for 25 years i reallly have enough from stupid discussions like that from people who never wore a gii before...(n)

Brian
08-31-2009, 05:09 AM
Is there any truth to the story that the New Gladiators if it got released in 1975 was going to feature the songs of Crosby, Stills and Nash.

Getlo
08-31-2009, 02:33 PM
being in the martial arts for 25 years i reallly have enough from stupid discussions like that from people who never wore a gii before...(n)

If you're referring to me, I did martial arts for 20 years myself, so I know wherof I speak.

Elvis, by any stretch of the imagination, was not a great martial artist.

EnigmaticSun
08-31-2009, 03:00 PM
Elvis, by any stretch of the imagination, was not a great martial artist.

Yeah it was difficult practicing karate as much and often as he did singing and playing. He could have achieved a whole lot if he would fully devote himself to it, as he did with music. I don't see such agility like Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee, but he was the king of the jungle if necessary. Martial arts was his physcial spirituality, but I guess the limitations of his life and surrounding didn't grant him the perfect basis for it.

tjs
08-31-2009, 03:40 PM
Like many of the folks on the board I'm also a black belt.

I met and had the honor of showing Bill Wallace around Notre Dame when I was the president of the karate club there in 1983.

I asked him about Elvis and he stopped in his tracks, looked at me and said: "Elvis was a hell of a nice guy." He went on to say he was a respectable martial artist.

Bill Wallace, btw, was the guy who found John Belushi dead.

KEVIN WILDE
08-31-2009, 03:41 PM
THANKS FOR THE INFO

Jumpsuit Junkie
08-31-2009, 05:39 PM
From what footage I have seen Elvis would pass as fair. I would also add that who wouldn't want to give Elvis a black belt? I mean come on, even if Elvis was average they wanted to be associated with him.

He had a cop badge and he wasnt a good cop ;)

Brian
08-31-2009, 06:25 PM
Norris has said Elvis was devoted to the art and opened it up to millions who had no interest in it.
Elvis is in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame in New York-and it was for his devotion to the art and his work in expanding the art to the world.


was that really true though.

It is true Elvis was doing karate in his films as soon as Flaming Star in 1960 but did he really inspire anyone who saw him to figure out what he was doing and go and learn more about it and take lessons.

Bruce Lee during the 60's began teaching martial arts in the to people in the U.S. who had never heard about it before.
He also finally made it mainstream popular in the 70's in the U.S. with his movies such as Enter the Dragon and others.

Elvis would do it on stage all the time throughout the 70's but I don't think anyone ever paid that close attention to it.

So while Elvis began introducing Karate in his movies in the 60's and doing demonstrations and sometimes would talk about it I don't think it reasonated with people or really had an impact on them.

Junebug
08-31-2009, 06:56 PM
was that really true though.

It is true Elvis was doing karate in his films as soon as Flaming Star in 1960 but did he really inspire anyone who saw him to figure out what he was doing and go and learn more about it and take lessons.

Bruce Lee during the 60's began teaching martial arts in the to people in the U.S. who had never heard about it before.
He also finally made it mainstream popular in the 70's in the U.S. with his movies such as Enter the Dragon and others.

Elvis would do it on stage all the time throughout the 70's but I don't think anyone ever paid that close attention to it.

So while Elvis began introducing Karate in his movies in the 60's and doing demonstrations and sometimes would talk about it I don't think it reasonated with people or really had an impact on them.



While I guess it will depend on what one's view of 'inspiration' is, I would have to say YES, Elvis did inspire people when it came to the subject of Karate.

It is because of his interest in it that others chose to take a closer look at the art.


A discussion such as this is just one example. (y)


:king:

Simon
08-31-2009, 07:27 PM
I sure think it IS an essential must-have! For crying out loud, I've been waiting for this footage ever since This is Elvis came out, and I know of a lot of fans who feel the same way!

And OF COURSE EPE knows about it, they instigated it!

Cheers,
Simon

KPM
08-31-2009, 08:22 PM
was that really true though.

It is true Elvis was doing karate in his films as soon as Flaming Star in 1960 but did he really inspire anyone who saw him to figure out what he was doing and go and learn more about it and take lessons.

Bruce Lee during the 60's began teaching martial arts in the to people in the U.S. who had never heard about it before.
He also finally made it mainstream popular in the 70's in the U.S. with his movies such as Enter the Dragon and others.

Elvis would do it on stage all the time throughout the 70's but I don't think anyone ever paid that close attention to it.

So while Elvis began introducing Karate in his movies in the 60's and doing demonstrations and sometimes would talk about it I don't think it reasonated with people or really had an impact on them.
I'm just curious-is there anything you feel Elvis does deserve a little credit for???? What can I say about this subject which explains why they gave it to him that they did not say in there presentation?

Well here goes......... I did not give the award to him, I did not decide what he got the award for, nor pick the wording they used to describe why he was given the award-the people in the Martial Arts did. I would assume they know who and what helped expand awareness and draw attention to karate and all the martial arts. It does not say he "single handidly" expanded karate nor that no one else also helped expand it.
I can tell you that karate was not known to me-until I say Elvis use it. The "chop suey movies" of China and Hong Kong were mainly overseas until the early 70s and Bruce Lees "Enter the Dragon" was the first big budget Hollywood karate movie which made money.
Then came Chuck Norris films centered around the martial arts-but the wide spread public attraction to the martial arts was not in the 40s, 50s or the 60s so I would assume that the moves Elvis used in many of his 60s films did attract attention-his mention in interviews of his learning karate did help the spread of the art. I studied karate for about 2 years from 14 to 16 and I only became involved because it looked so easy when I saw it done by Elvis (it is not) I learned enough to "think" I can protect myself;)
But I do think he would not have been inducted into the hall of fame -for the heck of it. Its their society, their museum, their criteria for induction.
Elvis Australia story:
http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/news/elvis_in_karate_hall_of_fame.shtml

KPM
08-31-2009, 08:31 PM
Like many of the folks on the board I'm also a black belt.

I met and had the honor of showing Bill Wallace around Notre Dame when I was the president of the karate club there in 1983.

I asked him about Elvis and he stopped in his tracks, looked at me and said: "Elvis was a hell of a nice guy." He went on to say he was a respectable martial artist.
Bill Wallace, btw, was the guy who found John Belushi dead.
I heard Bill in an interview say this also about Elvis-he said Elvis understood it was not just the moves it was a philosophy.
I think some think Elvis was number one as a performer and singer-so he must be the best at everything else he does-"respectable martial artist" is pretty good for someone who made his living as a performer. IMO
Of course the idea of "what is a respectable martial artist" is another subject open to individual interpretation.

Jungleroom76
08-31-2009, 10:41 PM
It isn't, unless you're an absolute completist. But it's interesting.

Another thing the DVD has is one of the '68 Special karate sequences, directly ripped off (in 7/10 picture quality) from the DVD! Relatively relevant I suppose, but a bit pointless.

I wonder if EPE knows about this release? After all, it mentions "Elvis Presley" on the cover and that's now a trademark.

I would have to guess EPE knows about it, since it is being sold through their website. But that is interesting about the poor quality of the '68 karate footage... :hmm:

Doesn't surprise me though...EPE seldom does anything the proper way when it comes to Elvis (can we say Elvis rubber ducks?) :'(

Thanks again for the info. Getlo!! :notworthy

TCB!
Mike

Brian
08-31-2009, 10:58 PM
I'm just curious-is there anything you feel Elvis does deserve a little credit for???? What can I say about this subject which explains why they gave it to him that they did not say in there presentation?

:
http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/news/elvis_in_karate_hall_of_fame.shtml

Sure

Elvis deserves credit for being a rock n' roll pioneer and for having the most hit records in the rock n' roll era. I'll give credit to Elvis for introducing gospel music to a different audience, I'll give credit to Elvis for being a country rock pioneer, i'll even give credit to Elvis for being a decent actor but I don't think he really made Karate popular despite his efforts.

I remember in the 70's Karate or Martial arts was popular in other parts of the world but not in the U.S. until Bruce Lee then it became mainstream popular.
All the kung fung movies, Carl Douglas song in 1974 etc.

Without Bruce Lee I doubt it would've achieved that level of popularity in the U.S.
Elvis would do it on stage and in films and I saw him but it never reasonated with me.
I don't know of anyone who took up martial arts because they saw Elvis doing it.

Jumpsuit Junkie
08-31-2009, 11:02 PM
I don't know of anyone who took up martial arts because they saw Elvis doing it.

:blush: Me - Wing Tsun

KPM
08-31-2009, 11:10 PM
Sure

Elvis deserves credit for being a rock n' roll pioneer and for having the most hit records in the rock n' roll era. I'll give credit to Elvis for introducing gospel music to a different audience, I'll give credit to Elvis for being a country rock pioneer, i'll even give credit to Elvis for being a decent actor but I don't think he really made Karate popular despite his efforts.I remember in the 70's Karate or Martial arts was popular in other parts of the world but not in the U.S. until Bruce Lee then it became mainstream popular.
All the kung fung movies, Carl Douglas song in 1974 etc.

Without Bruce Lee I doubt it would've achieved that level of popularity in the U.S.
Elvis would do it on stage and in films and I saw him but it never reasonated with me.
I don't know of anyone who took up martial arts because they saw Elvis doing it.
Well thats your view and thats how you see it....... fortunately for Elvis Presley and his fans-the Martial Arts Hall of Fame officials and those who vote for such honors-see that he had a hand in it-thus the honor.
Bruce Lee is in the Hall of Fame also and he certainly is hugely instrumental in making it more mainstream-but Brian as I pointed out-its not did Elvis make it mainstream-did Bruce Lee make it mainstream alot of factors helped make Karate mainstream.
Its not about who did the most-its about giving credit to all those who had a hand in it...... in the estimation and experience of those who give the awards-that seems a reasonable thing to me.
I will actually agree with you-no one person made the mainstream movement-it was a combination of many things, many people, many avenues of exposure and one of those avenues was Elvis Presley.

Jumpsuit Junkie
08-31-2009, 11:21 PM
...many people, many avenues of exposure and one of those avenues was Elvis Presley.

100% agreed, Elvis looked cool. He could have been the best or worst? I really don't care to be honest, in my minds eye he was good and that's all that counts in this house :D

Here is a wallpaper I have made based from the DVD cover of this film.

http://www.tcb-world.com/gallery/files/1/2/9/karate_5_745695.jpg

KPM
08-31-2009, 11:25 PM
100% agreed, Elvis looked cool. He could have been the best or worst? I really don't care to be honest, in my minds eye he was good and that's all that counts in this house :D

Here is a wallpaper I have made based from the DVD cover of this film.

http://www.tcb-world.com/gallery/files/1/2/9/karate_5_745695.jpg
Excellent work-if you are not involved in commercial art in your profession-you may have missed your calling:D:D

Jungleroom76
09-01-2009, 12:37 AM
Here is a wallpaper I have made based from the DVD cover of this film.

Cool wallpaper Matt!!! :notworthy

TCB!
Mike

Getlo
09-01-2009, 01:42 AM
He had a cop badge and he wasnt a good cop ;)

The police badges were all honorary, despite Elvis' claims otherwise. And yes, he may have been an actual "sheriff" in Memphis or wherever, but that meant nothing.

Martial arts degress should be bestowed because of ability, not celebrity charisma.

Junebug
09-01-2009, 01:43 AM
Sure

Elvis deserves credit for being a rock n' roll pioneer and for having the most hit records in the rock n' roll era. I'll give credit to Elvis for introducing gospel music to a different audience, I'll give credit to Elvis for being a country rock pioneer, i'll even give credit to Elvis for being a decent actor but I don't think he really made Karate popular despite his efforts.

I remember in the 70's Karate or Martial arts was popular in other parts of the world but not in the U.S. until Bruce Lee then it became mainstream popular.
All the kung fung movies, Carl Douglas song in 1974 etc.

Without Bruce Lee I doubt it would've achieved that level of popularity in the U.S.
Elvis would do it on stage and in films and I saw him but it never reasonated with me.
I don't know of anyone who took up martial arts because they saw Elvis doing it.


It's not about making something 'popular' or someone 'taking up martial arts.'

It is about the influence a particular person - Elvis, in this case - had on people that made them look at or take an interest in something they might not have otherwise.

It is about exposure to the art through things as simple as Elvis' karate moves on stage and even the early gii-style of his stagewear. Its about learning there were different styles to karate since his favorite was Kenpo. It was about the learning of different levels of karate and the acknowledgement of mastery through a 'color belt' system. It was about Elvis merely talking about karate on stage to his thousands of fans that created added exposure or introduction to the art.

I don't find this difficult to believe. Elvis was an influence in many areas throughout his lifetime - music, style, concert merchandising, movement on stage, charity involvement, sideburns.....and the list goes on. And I don't believe his intentions were ever to make any of these things popular!!! He just hoped fans would buy his 'records'..............


:king:

Brian
09-01-2009, 02:03 AM
It's not about making something 'popular' or someone 'taking up martial arts.'

It is about the influence a particular person - Elvis, in this case - had on people that made them look at or take an interest in something they might not have otherwise.


:king:

That's what i'm saying Elvis didn't influence other people to take up martial arts that weren't previously interested in it.

I think his bodyguards got into it for a hobby because of him but that's about it.

Brian
09-01-2009, 02:10 AM
Well thats your view and thats how you see it....... fortunately for Elvis Presley and his fans-the Martial Arts Hall of Fame officials and those who vote for such honors-see that he had a hand in it-thus the honor.
Bruce Lee is in the Hall of Fame also and he certainly is hugely instrumental in making it more mainstream-but Brian as I pointed out-its not did Elvis make it mainstream-did Bruce Lee make it mainstream alot of factors helped make Karate mainstream.
Its not about who did the most-its about giving credit to all those who had a hand in it...... in the estimation and experience of those who give the awards-that seems a reasonable thing to me.
I will actually agree with you-no one person made the mainstream movement-it was a combination of many things, many people, many avenues of exposure and one of those avenues was Elvis Presley.

That's what i'm trying to say if Elvis never got involved in Karate it would've progressed the same.

The reason the Karare Hall of fame inducted Elvis into their hall of fame was because they say he introduced it to people that never had an interest in it before.
That he did but it didn't catch on with people so I don't think he deserves being in the HOF because he wasn't that influential in this field.

I say he wasn't influential at all.

Getlo
09-01-2009, 02:20 AM
The reason the Karare Hall of fame inducted Elvis into their hall of fame was because they say he introduced it to people that never had an interest in it before.
That he did but it didn't catch on with people so I don't think he deserves being in the HOF because he wasn't that influential in this field.
I say he wasn't influential at all.

I tend to agree, and think the KHOF did it to perhaps boost their profile.

Perhaps a few, maybe even a few hundred, Elvis fans over the world over many years, tried karate because Elvis did it. Most wouldn't have stuck with it.

And most martial artists wouldn't even know that Elvis was a practitioner.

rocknroll
09-01-2009, 02:32 AM
Like many of the folks on the board I'm also a black belt.

I too am a black belt.

I also can bench press 600 pounds, dunk a basketball from the half court line and I swam the pacific in 1968 after getting the CMH in Nam.

:D:D:D:D:D:D

Pacerstar
09-01-2009, 02:35 AM
It's not about making something 'popular' or someone 'taking up martial arts.'

It is about the influence a particular person - Elvis, in this case - had on people that made them look at or take an interest in something they might not have otherwise.

It is about exposure to the art through things as simple as Elvis' karate moves on stage and even the early gii-style of his stagewear. Its about learning there were different styles to karate since his favorite was Kenpo. It was about the learning of different levels of karate and the acknowledgement of mastery through a 'color belt' system. It was about Elvis merely talking about karate on stage to his thousands of fans that created added exposure or introduction to the art.

I don't find this difficult to believe. Elvis was an influence in many areas throughout his lifetime - music, style, concert merchandising, movement on stage, charity involvement, sideburns.....and the list goes on. And I don't believe his intentions were ever to make any of these things popular!!! He just hoped fans would buy his 'records'..............


:king:

I agree. Is it so hard for people to give Elvis credit that he does deserve?:hmm::hmm::hmm:

Brian
09-01-2009, 03:01 AM
I agree. Is it so hard for people to give Elvis credit that he does deserve?:hmm::hmm::hmm:

This is more about fans giving Elvis credit for things he doesn't deserve.

I am a realist.

Pacerstar
09-01-2009, 03:26 AM
This is more about fans giving Elvis credit for things he doesn't deserve.

I am a realist.

If celebrity alone does not influence people, why do advertisers pay big sums
to celebrities to endorse their products and causes?:hmm::hmm::hmm:

Junebug
09-01-2009, 03:45 AM
That's what i'm saying Elvis didn't influence other people to take up martial arts that weren't previously interested in it.

I think his bodyguards got into it for a hobby because of him but that's about it.


I believe you missed the point ENTIRELY.


:king:

Brian
09-01-2009, 04:42 AM
I believe you missed the point ENTIRELY.


:king:

I did not miss the point

I believe you missed my point which is what you replied to.

What you said is true but it's only partially what I was talking about.

Your'e previous posts just proves my points.

Brian
09-01-2009, 05:34 AM
If celebrity alone does not influence people, why do advertisers pay big sums
to celebrities to endorse their products and causes?:hmm::hmm::hmm:

Elvis didn't influence that many people to start taking karate lessons.

people do pay big sums for celebrities to endorse their products but a lot of time it does not work and besides we're talking about Elvis and his influence over Karate which was minimal at best.

Merry
09-01-2009, 05:49 AM
Elvis didn't influence that many people to start taking karate lessons.

people do pay big sums for celebrities to endorse their products but a lot of time it does not work and besides we're talking about Elvis and his influence over Karate which was minimal at best.





Hi Brian,

How can you make such a sweeping comment, speaking for millions of people?

Brian
09-01-2009, 06:14 AM
Hi Brian,

How can you make such a sweeping comment, speaking for millions of people?

I just know it.

it's just one of those things that you just know.

Go ask 100 people that study Martial arts if they wanted to get into because of Elvis Presley.
then ask 100 more.

I would bet you money right now that none of them say Yes.

molokai123
09-01-2009, 06:29 AM
Elvis was okay, but he certainly was nothing great. Some of the '74 footage is a little embarrassing.

yea i gotta agree he was maybe acomplished at best,but not the smoothest but hey he still looked cool onstage well sumtimes:P xcept for sum of that 74 footage!:P

Merry
09-01-2009, 06:32 AM
I just know it.

it's just one of those things that you just know.

Go ask 100 people that study Martial arts if they wanted to get into because of Elvis Presley.
then ask 100 more.

I would bet you money right now that none of them say Yes.



Well, I did for a while, (not for very long, I sprained my wrist then other things happened) and so did my son, that's two.

Two of my friends from AEK, one was a 2nd or 3rd Dan Blackbelt (he wouldn't talk about it), his two daughters were Blackbelts, too, I think 1st Dan. One of his daughters was named after Elvis.

Then there was another friend of mine, an Aussie, from AEK, too, plus another from The States.

So, somehow or other, the majority of my friends on AEK, including their children, were involved in Martial Arts because of Elvis (and top people, too).(y)

Furthermore, pity I can't get into the archives to post what they wrote about Elvis. They were successful people, and just loved the ground that Elvis walked on, because he influenced their lives for the better in other ways too, musically wise, they becoming successful musicians because of their love of Elvis' music, as well as Elvis. (y)

Brian
09-01-2009, 07:08 AM
Well, I did for a while, (not for very long, I sprained my wrist then other things happened) and so did my son, that's two.

Two of my friends from AEK, one was a 2nd or 3rd Dan Blackbelt (he wouldn't talk about it), his two daughters were Blackbelts, too, I think 1st Dan. One of his daughters was named after Elvis.

Then there was another friend of mine, an Aussie, from AEK, too, plus another from The States.

So, somehow or other, the majority of my friends on AEK, including their children, were involved in Martial Arts because of Elvis (and top people, too).(y)

Furthermore, pity I can't get into the archives to post what they wrote about Elvis. They were successful people, and just loved the ground that Elvis walked on, because he influenced their lives for the better in other ways too, musically wise, they becoming successful musicians because of their love of Elvis' music, as well as Elvis. (y)

Sure, some really big die hard fans would.
did the daughters really get into because of Elvis or was it because of their parents.
The parents as you say got into because of Elvis.
If you were to ask people who weren't Elvis fans they'd probably all say no

I meant ask 100 people at random

So I don't think Elvis influence on Karate is enough to warrant an induction into the Karate HoF.



I'd still say 96% of the people practing martial arts weren't influenced by Elvis.

.

Jumpsuit Junkie
09-01-2009, 09:47 AM
The police badges were all honorary, despite Elvis' claims otherwise. And yes, he may have been an actual "sheriff" in Memphis or wherever, but that meant nothing.

I know that, I was being sarcastic. I was pointing out that he held police badges and had'nt earned them but somebody made the decision to grant those to Elvis even though he hadn't done any training to earn them.


Martial arts degress should be bestowed because of ability, not celebrity charisma.

Yet when we watch Elvis it would suggest different :hmm:
From my experience of Karate, there are many elements e.g. Mental Growth, Kata's and the physicality of the sport. Do you suppose that the person training Elvis wasn't blinded by his celebrity?

romar
09-01-2009, 12:08 PM
the 74 footage was just a shot at one day. Doesn't mean or say anything if he was good or not. He was not sharp that day for whatever reason
Brain. Elvis studied the arts for 15 years. Do you think mabye he did learn something and he became pretty good at the art?
You do not get to become a black blet just like that.
And yes his status is one reason for the hall of fame to take him in. But also Elvis did influence a lot of people end he exposed karate on stage en movies and tv specials and clothing so it is fair to give him some credit. And to put him in the hall of fame.
But that is just my personel opinion. I studied Karate also. Just for one year. Found it very rich. Had to stop because of my knee .

Pacerstar
09-01-2009, 03:31 PM
Elvis didn't influence that many people to start taking karate lessons.

people do pay big sums for celebrities to endorse their products but a lot of time it does not work and besides we're talking about Elvis and his influence over Karate which was minimal at best.

Brian, I don't believe that Elvis actively recruited people to Karate. He spoke
about it and used some of it in his shows because he was interested in it
and because he enjoyed it. If Elvis had tried to actively recruit people to
Karate, IMO, he would have been vastly susscessful!:D:D:D:D:D:D

Pacerstar
09-01-2009, 03:38 PM
Sure, some really big die hard fans would.
did the daughters really get into because of Elvis or was it because of their parents.
The parents as you say got into because of Elvis.
If you were to ask people who weren't Elvis fans they'd probably all say no

I meant ask 100 people at random

So I don't think Elvis influence on Karate is enough to warrant an induction into the Karate HoF.



I'd still say 96% of the people practing martial arts weren't influenced by Elvis.

.

Maybe Elvis' influence was not enough to get him inducted but wouldn't
his being in the Hall of Fame have given Karate a boost?:D:D:D:D

KPM
09-01-2009, 04:13 PM
I just know it.

it's just one of those things that you just know.Go ask 100 people that study Martial arts if they wanted to get into because of Elvis Presley.
then ask 100 more.

I would bet you money right now that none of them say Yes.
Brian I could also say-"I just Know it" on my side-but it would be nothing more than my opinion.......just as yours is your opinion.]
You know it-from your.....point ...of view.
ANNNND the important thing in the realm of "The Martial Arts Hall of Fame" is not what you and I think about it-it was what they and their members who have to be fairly learned on the subject of Martial Arts and its widespread acceptance and growth around the world.
Hypothetical 100 people of today 2009-but we are not talking 2009 we are talking early 60s where average people had virtually no knowledge of karate, or martial arts-Elvis was using it in his movies, its mentioned in Roustabout by the college boy........before this it was used I believe 1st in a 1940s Jimmy Cagney movie with Cagney as a FBI secret agent- thats the first time I recall it used in a film. But Cagney had no real skill-he did not mention it in interviews, he did not practice it on the sets of films, he did not attend karate exhibitions. Elvis did all these things- its funny you read books and 2 things mentioned very often are Elvis's love of music and karate. Red and Sonny West have both acknowledged this.
As I said its not what you and I think which puts someone into any hall of fame for whatever reason-the people who run the organizations and their members make those calls-and thats how it should be.

KPM
09-01-2009, 04:22 PM
yea i gotta agree he was maybe acomplished at best,but not the smoothest but hey he still looked cool onstage well sumtimes:P xcept for sum of that 74 footage!:P
I think from what I have read that their was a period where he practiced daily and trained in some way daily. Out of the Army and into the movie years-but like many things his real study and training began to diminish into the late 60s and from their on he dabbled rather than actually trained.
I recall statements by the fight trainer who trained him for Kid Galahad, Mushy Callahan,-he had trained Kirk Douglas, Burt Lancaster, John Wayne, and several other stars for fight pictures-he said Elvis was the best of the lot-quick hands, good balance and he also mentioned Elvis knew karate and that made a huge difference.
Callahan had been a pro boxer and was a champion in the 30s I think-he became a celebrity trainer after his career was finished.

Brian
09-01-2009, 09:48 PM
Brian I could also say-"I just Know it" on my side-but it would be nothing more than my opinion.......just as yours is your opinion.]
.

No, it is a fact

Elvis didn't influence that many people to get into Karate.

some Elvis fans tried it because of him but that's it many of them probably didn't even stick with it for very long.

serious martial artists students were not influenced by Elvis neither were non fans and I'd say most Elvis fans didn't practice karate.

The Hall of fame put him in there to boost it's profile.

Brian
09-01-2009, 09:49 PM
Maybe Elvis' influence was not enough to get him inducted but wouldn't
his being in the Hall of Fame have given Karate a boost?:D:D:D:D

That's why he was inducted not because of the influence.

Brian
09-01-2009, 09:50 PM
Brian, I don't believe that Elvis actively recruited people to Karate. He spoke
about it and used some of it in his shows because he was interested in it
and because he enjoyed it. If Elvis had tried to actively recruit people to
Karate, IMO, he would have been vastly susscessful!:D:D:D:D:D:D

If he had tried to actively recruit people into it and was successful
then I would say he deserves to be in the HOF but he didn't.

Simon
09-01-2009, 10:01 PM
Maybe you should tell them then to throw him out once again?

Merry
09-01-2009, 10:03 PM
Sure, some really big die hard fans would.
did the daughters really get into because of Elvis or was it because of their parents.
The parents as you say got into because of Elvis.
If you were to ask people who weren't Elvis fans they'd probably all say no

I meant ask 100 people at random

So I don't think Elvis influence on Karate is enough to warrant an induction into the Karate HoF.



I'd still say 96% of the people practing martial arts weren't influenced by Elvis.

.




Alright Brian, if that makes you happy to adjust your outlook; however, I disagree with your point of view, and how you come to your conclusions.

The reason I'm replying, is that you are running down Elvis, and I think it is unnecessary, since you don't have the facts, nor any surveys to back up your opinion.

Merry
09-01-2009, 10:07 PM
No, it is a fact

Elvis didn't influence that many people to get into Karate.

some Elvis fans tried it because of him but that's it many of them probably didn't even stick with it for very long.

serious martial artists students were not influenced by Elvis neither were non fans and I'd say most Elvis fans didn't practice karate.

The Hall of fame put him in there to boost it's profile.



What are your references, Brian, to back up your facts?



"I just know it" doesn't do it, I'm sorry.

Brian
09-02-2009, 03:02 AM
What are your references, Brian, to back up your facts?



"I just know it" doesn't do it, I'm sorry.

it's logic and common sense.

Just go ask martial artists if Elvis got them interested in Martial arts.

Not Elvis fans just people who practice it in general the vast majority would say no.

People that weren't Elvis fans heard rock n' roll for the first time because of Elvis and he had tremendous influence on that field.

people that study martial arts that aren't Elvis fans wouldn't even know he was a serious student of Karate.

that's the difference.

Brian
09-02-2009, 03:06 AM
Alright Brian, if that makes you happy to adjust your outlook; however, I disagree with your point of view, and how you come to your conclusions.

The reason I'm replying, is that you are running down Elvis, and I think it is unnecessary, since you don't have the facts, nor any surveys to back up your opinion.


it's not my opinion


I not running him down

Just because i'm telling the truth about his influence on karate it's not running down.

I know some fans don't like it if you don't give credit to Elvis and say he was the best and most influential at whatever he did it's running Elvis down.
It's not its just being honest.

Jumpsuit Junkie
09-02-2009, 07:51 AM
The Hall of fame put him in there to boost it's profile.

Why, if as you said earlier any real karate fan wouldn't have known Elvis was into karate, so there is no point :hmm:

Brian
09-02-2009, 07:58 AM
Why, if as you said earlier any real karate fan wouldn't have known Elvis was into karate, so there is no point :hmm:

right

they found out Elvis studied Karate and decided to induct him to try and gain publicity for their HOF.
It worked we wouldn't be discussing the Karate HOF in New York if they hadn't.

The people on the board at the Karate HOF in NY are smart people

Jumpsuit Junkie
09-02-2009, 08:22 AM
right

they found out Elvis studied Karate and decided to induct him to try and gain publicity for their HOF.
It worked we wouldn't be discussing the Karate HOF in New York if they hadn't.

The people on the board at the Karate HOF in NY are smart people

Could it be that these guys thought he was actually good enough to be inducted? There is a certain amount of stigma attached to Elvis which isn't always positive. So my point is they must have thought about this but still went ahead!

Your comment about only Elvis fans might have been influenced rings true, however the amount of fans Elvis had and has would influence more people than your average John Doe. There are millions of fans, even if only 1% actually decided to take up karate that would still amount to thousands over 30 plus years...

Lets try and give the King some credit (y)

Merry
09-02-2009, 08:30 AM
Lets try and give the King some credit (y)


:D It's a beautiful afternoon :D lol (y)

Brian
09-02-2009, 08:37 AM
Could it be that these guys thought he was actually good enough to be inducted? There is a certain amount of stigma attached to Elvis which isn't always positive. So my point is they must have thought about this but still went ahead!

Your comment about only Elvis fans might have been influenced rings true, however the amount of fans Elvis had and has would influence more people than your average John Doe. There are millions of fans, even if only 1% actually decided to take up karate that would still amount to thousands over 30 plus years...

Lets try and give the King some credit (y)

Nope

I'm just trying to be fair like I said i'm a realist.

Frank Sinatra did a fight scene in one of my favorite movies The Manchurian candidate from 1962. It wasn't the usual fist fight scene they were both using Karate.
So It's actually fair to say that Sinatra like Elvis was a pioneer in introducing martial arts to people in the movies long before Bruce Lee and others ever did.
So shouldn't Frank Sinatra be inducted as well.

Jumpsuit Junkie
09-02-2009, 08:42 AM
So shouldn't Frank Sinatra be inducted as well.

Only if he has influenced as many people as Elvis :rolleyes:


http://images.zaazu.com/img/elvis-elvis-cool-hair-smiley-emoticon-000203-large.gif

Brian
09-02-2009, 08:55 AM
Only if he has influenced as many people as Elvis :rolleyes:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/karate%20smiley/francesca70/7_5_1431.gif?o=4


I think he has

Jumpsuit Junkie
09-02-2009, 08:58 AM
I think he has

We need to petition the Karate HOF and make sure Frank isn't overlooked :supriced:

Merry
09-02-2009, 09:04 AM
Here is a link to some actors in Action movies from the 60's, including reference to Frank Sinatra breaking a table.

http://www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com/Articles/deleon/entertainment/pioneers_ma.html (http://www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com/Articles/deleon/entertainment/pioneers_ma.html)

:doh:

You know, the little six year old kids, some who were Yellow Belts, in my son's class, were breaking boards.

Frank was in a movie, not practicing the Art (so I believe).

I also thought, that one doesn't start learning, until one is a Black Belt? If Frank was a Black Belt, then the fact that he was involved may be of interest.

Was he?

Pacerstar
09-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Could it be that these guys thought he was actually good enough to be inducted? There is a certain amount of stigma attached to Elvis which isn't always positive. So my point is they must have thought about this but still went ahead!

Your comment about only Elvis fans might have been influenced rings true, however the amount of fans Elvis had and has would influence more people than your average John Doe. There are millions of fans, even if only 1% actually decided to take up karate that would still amount to thousands over 30 plus years...

Lets try and give the King some credit (y)

(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

KPM
09-03-2009, 04:11 PM
Nope

I'm just trying to be fair like I said i'm a realist.

Frank Sinatra did a fight scene in one of my favorite movies The Manchurian candidate from 1962. It wasn't the usual fist fight scene they were both using Karate.
So It's actually fair to say that Sinatra like Elvis was a pioneer in introducing martial arts to people in the movies long before Bruce Lee and others ever did.
So shouldn't Frank Sinatra be inducted as well.

?????
NO-come on Brian -Frank Sinatra had actually zilch real knowledge of karate-one fight scene??????
Frank never studied karate-Elvis did.
Frank never mentioned karate as an art in interviews-Elvis did.
Frank never attained any belt (real, honorary, for his celebrity) Elvis did.
Frank never attended karate exhibitions-Elvis did.
Frank did not take karate and judo in the Army-Elvis did.
Frank did not speak to individuals about the martial arts in groups and one on one-Elvis did.
Frank did not speak in public about his love for the art-Elvis did.
Frank Sinatra is one of a kind singer, great actor, and institution but he had one karate fight scene in a film-thats it.
I'm sure that if the "Marial Arts Hall of Fame" based how they induct people into their hall-on one simulated scene in a film-the Hall would have hundreds of actors included.
Their is a logical order to how things like this are decided-very logical- and one simulated fight scene-does not fit that logic.
Do you think you know more about the criteria for inducting people into this Hall of Fame-than the members who do so?

KPM
09-03-2009, 04:13 PM
I think he has
Not in music-in the art of karate!
Think hard on this one.

KPM
09-03-2009, 04:13 PM
Could it be that these guys thought he was actually good enough to be inducted? There is a certain amount of stigma attached to Elvis which isn't always positive. So my point is they must have thought about this but still went ahead!

Your comment about only Elvis fans might have been influenced rings true, however the amount of fans Elvis had and has would influence more people than your average John Doe. There are millions of fans, even if only 1% actually decided to take up karate that would still amount to thousands over 30 plus years...

Lets try and give the King some credit (y)
Thank you for a little logic-well thought out.(y)(y)(y)

KPM
09-03-2009, 04:20 PM
it's not my opinion


I not running him down

Just because i'm telling the truth about his influence on karate it's not running down.

I know some fans don't like it if you don't give credit to Elvis and say he was the best and most influential at whatever he did it's running Elvis down.It's not its just being honest.
No one is saying he was the best at karate-no one is saying he was the most influential-at least no in my posts.
I said there is no competition for who is most influential, who most spread martial arts into the mainstream-it was a matter of many people, many things which worked individually to reach that goal.
Elvis was certainly a part of that divergent group-I think I can say this with no doubt to be fact. The Hall of Fame certainly thought so.

Getlo
09-03-2009, 04:40 PM
Frank never studied karate-

He did for a short while for The Manchurian Candidate.

Jumpsuit Junkie
09-03-2009, 05:01 PM
He did for a short while for The Manchurian Candidate.

Hardly the same ;)

Junebug
09-03-2009, 05:21 PM
It is what it is.

:king:

KPM
09-03-2009, 09:17 PM
He did for a short while for The Manchurian Candidate.
Thanks I stand corrected.
I meant other than this one film which I assumed he had to have some training to handle his end since their are some closeups of the fight
But my point is still, except for this brief moment in his career-Frank was just not into karate in any form.

Now boxing and Frank would be another matter.

Frank loved boxing and frequented fights from the 1940s into the late 1980s. Their are numerous photos thru time of Sinatra and his entourage sitting ringside at the Garden/Jersey and Vegas. One of the many things he found appealing about Dean Martin was that Martin had been a boxer for a short period before becoming a singer.
Frank photographed the first Ali/Frasier fight for Life magazine and did a pretty good job of it. He supposedly helped with Joe Louis's medical bills and other down and out boxers over time.
Now if the Boxing Hall of Fame wanted to nominate Frank to their Hall of Fame in similar fashion as Elvis in martial arts-I would see the reasoning and relevance in that.

Merry
09-03-2009, 09:53 PM
it's not my opinion


I not running him down

Just because i'm telling the truth about his influence on karate it's not running down.

I know some fans don't like it if you don't give credit to Elvis and say he was the best and most influential at whatever he did it's running Elvis down.
It's not its just being honest.



It is your opinion, Brian, as you have nothing to back it up. "I know it" doesn't do it.

Your argument on Frank Sinatra - without any references to back it up, there isn't any argument there - I don't get you sometimes, and just have to back away from a thread.

I haven't claimed or said anything (or has anyone else that I've read); furthermore, I doubt Elvis would have wanted to lay claim to the words you are saying.

Fact is, is that Elvis did influence a lot of people, in a lot of different ways, for a lot of different things, because he was a good man, an unassuming man. He cared about people, and those around him, and just did what he needed to do, which is all anyone can do. That is what is important. Not "who is best" that's blahhhh to me. "Best" is loving those around you and more importantly, letting them know it.

He did that! :hug: :king:

Merry
09-03-2009, 09:56 PM
He did for a short while for The Manchurian Candidate.


Hi Getlo,

What did it entail?

Brian
09-03-2009, 10:45 PM
It is your opinion, Brian, as you have nothing to back it up. "I know it" doesn't do it.

Your argument on Frank Sinatra - without any references to back it up, there isn't any argument there - I don't get you sometimes, and just have to back away from a thread.

I haven't claimed or said anything (or has anyone else that I've read); furthermore, I doubt Elvis would have wanted to lay claim to the words you are saying.

Fact is, is that Elvis did influence a lot of people, in a lot of different ways, for a lot of different things, because he was a good man, an unassuming man. He cared about people, and those around him, and just did what he needed to do, which is all anyone can do. That is what is important. Not "who is best" that's blahhhh to me. "Best" is loving those around you and more importantly, letting them know it.

He did that! :hug: :king:




What you don't seem to understand is it's not an opinion

Elvis didn't influence serious martial artists who were not fans and the 1% or maybe 2% of his fanbase that did take up Karate because of him half wouldn't of stuck with it.

That's just a fact

It's like the sky is blue.

I'm not going to go around asking Martial atists randomly if Elvis influenced them because I already know the answer it would just prove what i've already been saying

Merry
09-03-2009, 10:47 PM
What you don't seem to understand is it's not an opinion





Unless you have a study to back up what you say, it's an opinion, as you are stating it. You can't speak for a percentage of tens of millions of fans.

I'm leaving this thread, there isn't any point.

Brian
09-03-2009, 10:56 PM
Frank loved boxing and frequented fights from the 1940s into the late 1980s. Their are numerous photos thru time of Sinatra and his entourage sitting ringside at the Garden/Jersey and Vegas. One of the many things he found appealing about Dean Martin was that Martin had been a boxer for a short period before becoming a singer.
Frank photographed the first Ali/Frasier fight for Life magazine and did a pretty good job of it. He supposedly helped with Joe Louis's medical bills and other down and out boxers over time.
Now if the Boxing Hall of Fame wanted to nominate Frank to their Hall of Fame in similar fashion as Elvis in martial arts-I would see the reasoning and relevance in that.

I don't think Frank Sinatra deserves to be in the Boxing Hall of fame.




In order for you to be in the Boxing HOF you would have to have had a distinguished career as as fighter or have a distinguished career as a trainer, promoter or historian.

Because sometimes they will induct non fighters if they were significant to the history of Boxing.

Frank Sinatra doesn't fit either.


Helping Joe Louis with medical bills and other down and out fighters was a very nice thing but I'm afraid it doesn't warrant an induction.

Brian
09-03-2009, 10:57 PM
Unless you have a study to back up what you say, it's an opinion, as you are stating it. You can't speak for a percentage of tens of millions of fans.

I'm leaving this thread, there isn't any point.

As I said it would just back up what I've said.

Pacerstar
09-03-2009, 11:12 PM
:D:D:D
What you don't seem to understand is it's not an opinion

Elvis didn't influence serious martial artists who were not fans and the 1% or maybe 2% of his fanbase that did take up Karate because of him half wouldn't of stuck with it.

That's just a fact

It's like the sky is blue.

I'm not going to go around asking Martial atists randomly if Elvis influenced them because I already know the answer it would just prove what i've already been saying

Brian, the sky is not always blue!:D:D:D:D:D

Getlo
09-04-2009, 01:14 AM
Hi Getlo,

What did it entail?

I'm going by memory from the DVD special features.

It was one of the first films to feature actual karate. Frank said he didn't want to look (too) stupid doing it, so he had a few lessons. Nothing major. After all, it was a very short scene, and he fought with actor Henry Silva (who, oddly, was playing an Oriental!)

Merry
09-04-2009, 02:31 AM
I'm going by memory from the DVD special features.

It was one of the first films to feature actual karate. Frank said he didn't want to look (too) stupid doing it, so he had a few lessons. Nothing major. After all, it was a very short scene, and he fought with actor Henry Silva (who, oddly, was playing an Oriental!)



Thanks, Getlo.

:D

Brian
09-04-2009, 03:20 AM
:D:D:D

Brian, the sky is not always blue!:D:D:D:D:D

it is where I live.

Pacerstar
09-04-2009, 04:04 PM
it is where I live.

It is never black, gray, red or orange where you live, Brian?:D:D:D

Junebug
09-04-2009, 04:52 PM
It is never black, gray, red or orange where you live, Brian?:D:D:D

What a shame......

Hazy pinks, purples........

No beautiful sunsets or sunrises???

:king:

Tommy
09-04-2009, 05:26 PM
Please stay on topic, thank you.

KPM
09-04-2009, 05:38 PM
I don't think Frank Sinatra deserves to be in the Boxing Hall of fame.




In order for you to be in the Boxing HOF you would have to have had a distinguished career as as fighter or have a distinguished career as a trainer, promoter or historian.

Because sometimes they will induct non fighters if they were significant to the history of Boxing.

Frank Sinatra doesn't fit either.


Helping Joe Louis with medical bills and other down and out fighters was a very nice thing but I'm afraid it doesn't warrant an induction.
Well -I am not now going to debate about Sinatra it was a hypothetical point. Such as your point about Sinatra and the Martial Arts Hall of Fame.
If anyone objectively looked at the idea of Sinatra being in either of these places -the safe bet would be its more likely to be the Boxing Hall of Fame.
But Elvis "is in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame" -"it is not hypothetical"-he is they honored him by their criteria. You may not like it, may not understand it, but that the fact.

KPM
09-04-2009, 05:44 PM
What you don't seem to understand is it's not an opinion
Elvis didn't influence serious martial artists who were not fans and the 1% or maybe 2% of his fanbase that did take up Karate because of him half wouldn't of stuck with it.

That's just a fact

It's like the sky is blue.

I'm not going to go around asking Martial atists randomly if Elvis influenced them because I already know the answer it would just prove what i've already been saying
I am sorry Brian in this instance -"it is just your opinion"-based on
"your ideas" of what is significant influence and contribution.
Your opinion is not the deciding factor-in questions such as this.
Neither is mine. My opinion does rest comfortably with the Martial Arts Hall of Fame and its board and members who decided this.
They decided it-"not based on your opinion or my opinion" but on their own judgement of merit. This is the case. Saying it is not so-does not change the outcome.

KPM
09-04-2009, 05:59 PM
I'm going by memory from the DVD special features.

It was one of the first films to feature actual karate. Frank said he didn't want to look (too) stupid doing it, so he had a few lessons. Nothing major. After all, it was a very short scene, and he fought with actor Henry Silva (who, oddly, was playing an Oriental!)
I do recall the scene in the film-but have not seen the DVD extras.
Silva does have a slight oriental look about him I think he played everything from Italian mafia to mexican bandit with his hard to define heritage by looks.

Brian
09-04-2009, 07:02 PM
I am sorry Brian in this instance -"it is just your opinion"-based on
"your ideas" of what is significant influence and contribution.
Your opinion is not the deciding factor-in questions such as this.
Neither is mine. My opinion does rest comfortably with the Martial Arts Hall of Fame and its board and members who decided this.
They decided it-"not based on your opinion or my opinion" but on their own judgement of merit. This is the case. Saying it is not so-does not change the outcome.




I said if you go and ask serious martial artists randomly if Elvis influenced them to get into Karate most of them would say no.

most non fans have no clue Elvis seriously practiced karate

those are just facts.

I would do a study to prove what i'm saying, but I already know the outcome so I don't see any point.

Jumpsuit Junkie
09-04-2009, 07:13 PM
Enough is enough here guys, I firmly believe this thread has turned in to Groundhog Day!