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DannyBoy2
03-23-2009, 01:06 PM
Dear friends,

From a friend of mine I have received the following question, to which I could not give any answer:

"Is it true that Elvis, just before the date of his death, was helping the FBI as a witness in a trial against the mafia. It seems he knew something about a "dirty" purchase or sale of an airplane done by the mafia..."

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Elvisly greetings,

DannyBoy

elvislina
03-23-2009, 02:04 PM
Hello

I have hear that too. someone tell me that day he should die so shall he be a witness to a person . Hugs Anna

Getlo
03-23-2009, 02:12 PM
"Is it true that Elvis, just before the date of his death, was helping the FBI as a witness in a trial against the mafia. It seems he knew something about a "dirty" purchase or sale of an airplane done by the mafia..."

Total crap.

Absolute rubbish.

Complete BS.

Does that answer your question?

KPM
03-23-2009, 07:14 PM
No it is not.
Show me a link to FBI records for a case in which Elvis was involved to testify with the mafia?
His FBI files have been released and no mention of any possible testimony by Elvis.
If there had been any mafia connected trial of any kind with a high profile person to testify-it would have been big big news-speculation on who it was would have been a top entertainment/news story-I can not recall any mention of any huge profile trial. Not even in the Enquirer-where things like this usually start.

LtCarman
03-23-2009, 09:53 PM
Total crap.

Absolute rubbish.

Complete BS.

Does that answer your question?

Just a simple "no" could have done...

Rhinestone
03-23-2009, 10:26 PM
Dear friends,

From a friend of mine I have received the following question, to which I could not give any answer:

"Is it true that Elvis, just before the date of his death, was helping the FBI as a witness in a trial against the mafia. It seems he knew something about a "dirty" purchase or sale of an airplane done by the mafia..."

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Elvisly greetings,

DannyBoy


Elvis had been conned out of an airplane by a man named Frederick Pro, who was part of an organization known as the Fraternity, worldwide racketeers who had already bilked millions from people. Some members of the Fraternity had strong ties with mafia bosses. The FBI had been carrying out an undercover operation against them. The FBI files, Part 7, page 70, http://foia.fbi.gov/elvis/elvis7.pdf, the Memphis field office says that the Presley case was to presented to the Federal Grand Jury "on or about August 15." It does not say Elvis was to testify. It's anyone's guess what Elvis' participation was/would have been in this case. It's tedious reading (many passages are blacked out) but it will you an understanding of the players and Vernon's, Beecher Smith's, and Elvis' actions in this case.

Page 91, http://foia.fbi.gov/elvis/elvis7.pdf, and on gives a good picture of what went on.

KPM
03-24-2009, 07:48 PM
Elvis had been conned out of an airplane by a man named Frederick Pro, who was part of an organization known as the Fraternity, worldwide racketeers who had already bilked millions from people. Some members of the Fraternity had strong ties with mafia bosses. The FBI had been carrying out an undercover operation against them. The FBI files, Part 7, page 70, http://foia.fbi.gov/elvis/elvis7.pdf, the Memphis field office says that the Presley case was to presented to the Federal Grand Jury "on or about August 15." It does not say Elvis was to testify. It's anyone's guess what Elvis' participation was/would have been in this case. It's tedious reading (many passages are blacked out) but it will you an understanding of the players and Vernon's, Beecher Smith's, and Elvis' actions in this case.

Page 91, http://foia.fbi.gov/elvis/elvis7.pdf, and on gives a good picture of what went on.
I do recall this story now that I see this-about Elvis and others being swindled. This has nothing to do with Elvis.s death-does anyone in any of the hundreds of books suggest that Elvis had a court date to testify in anyway shape or form. Or that this situation of being swindled was a major concern to him or anyone in the circle? There also is no mention of any FBI agents coming to interview Elvis at Graceland or anywhere else in any books (which would have had to happen-in order for Elvis to testify in any case the FBI was involved in) Its a scam which Elvis happened to be the victim of (along with others)
Also Elvis would have had nothing to do with the actual details of buying a plane his lawyer would have handled all of this-so he would have not talked to anyone directly about price, current ownership, title etc....

Brian
03-24-2009, 07:51 PM
I do recall this story now that I see this-about Elvis and others being swindled. This has nothing to do with Elvis.s death-does anyone in any of the hundreds of books suggest that Elvis had a court date to testify in anyway shape or form. Or that this situation of being swindled was a major concern to him or anyone in the circle? There also is no mention of any FBI agents coming to interview Elvis at Graceland or anywhere else in any books (which would have had to happen-in order for Elvis to testify in any case the FBA was involved in)
Also Elvis would have had nothing to do with the actual details of buying a plane his lawyer would have handled all of this-so he would have not talked to anyone directly about price, current ownership, title etc....

I've heard this story before

In the story I've heard it was Vernon Presley who was set to testify

KPM
03-24-2009, 08:11 PM
I've heard this story before


In the story I've heard it was Vernon Presley who was set to testify
I don't recall that but did he ever testify?
Elvis's death would not have stopped the FBI investigation/case? It would have continued on in some form-or dropped.
Here a link to an article on all of Elvis's aircraft and it mentions the swindle in it.
http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/lisa_marie_convair_880_jet.shtml

Rhinestone
03-24-2009, 10:11 PM
It was Vernon, who had power of attorney to act on Elvis' behalf, and Elvis' lawyer Beecher Smith who entered into this complex sale/lease contract with Pro. The case did continue and there were convictions. I'm pretty sure one of the crooks who helped the prosecution went into the Witness Protection Program. It's been awhile since I poured through all of FBI files concerning this....I only gave a link for Part 7, but there's much, much more. In Part 7, it mentions Elvis sending Milo High, his pilot, to Florida to retrieve the plane, so it seems Elvis did get involved directly in some ways once it was known that the deal was a scam. It's been reported that Vernon did give testimony via video during the trial in 1978 but I can't remember the source.

The only book I recall that mentioned this was the Memphis Mafia book, and that was just a brief mention that this occurred. In Larry Geller's If I Can Drean, Larry talks about men in business suits visiting Elvis and speaking alone with him. Afterwards, Larry said Elvis was disturbed....I don't recall the exact word, but it was something to that effect. Larry did not say who these men were or why they visited Elvis. Maybe he didn't know.

franny
03-25-2009, 12:21 AM
Dear friends,

From a friend of mine I have received the following question, to which I could not give any answer:

"Is it true that Elvis, just before the date of his death, was helping the FBI as a witness in a trial against the mafia. It seems he knew something about a "dirty" purchase or sale of an airplane done by the mafia..."

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Elvisly greetings,

DannyBoy

I never heard anything about this...not that I believe it, but where did your friend read/hear about it?

franny

TotallyInsane
03-25-2009, 12:42 AM
There are hundreds of pages released from the FBI. I found it all very interesting. Kinda hard to read in places because of so many things blacked out but what you could read was interesting.

KPM
03-25-2009, 01:27 AM
Elvis being scammed like many others who were also- is a far cry from the innunendo which many have pointed to as a reason Elvis may have been killed on 8-16-77. The problem is someone reports what little they know or have heard from someone-then the escalation begins as the story makes the rounds.
Elvis did not testify, and was not ever suppose to testify in any mafia trial.
Its the stuff of "Enquirer" "World Weekly News" http://weeklyworldnews.com/
less than stellar journalism.

hounddog
03-25-2009, 04:46 AM
This was also part of the Elvis is Alive stuff. etc Elvis had to fake his death cause the Mafia were after him. I think it was also mentioned in the book by John Parker Elvis the Secret Files.

KPM
03-25-2009, 05:41 PM
This was also part of the Elvis is Alive stuff. etc Elvis had to fake his death cause the Mafia were after him. I think it was also mentioned in the book by John Parker Elvis the Secret Files.
Well it sure sold a lot of product for the publisher- that- Elvis is Alive- stuff.
Anything can be put in print, anything can be surmised with little effort.
Turning a small nugget of truth completely around with innuendo and speculative implications (Elvis and others swindled by someone) into a total conspiracy theory is easy-and it makes a lot of money.

nabelt24
03-25-2009, 05:49 PM
This was also part of the Elvis is Alive stuff. etc Elvis had to fake his death cause the Mafia were after him. I think it was also mentioned in the book by John Parker Elvis the Secret Files.

Sure would make a great movie!!! :D The story of what happened and his return... :blush:

KPM
03-25-2009, 10:06 PM
Sure would make a great movie!!! :D The story of what happened and his return... :blush:
Yes great fiction for a movie I agree:)

sasha
03-26-2009, 03:50 PM
It was Vernon, who had power of attorney to act on Elvis' behalf, and Elvis' lawyer Beecher Smith who entered into this complex sale/lease contract with Pro. The case did continue and there were convictions. I'm pretty sure one of the crooks who helped the prosecution went into the Witness Protection Program. It's been awhile since I poured through all of FBI files concerning this....I only gave a link for Part 7, but there's much, much more. In Part 7, it mentions Elvis sending Milo High, his pilot, to Florida to retrieve the plane, so it seems Elvis did get involved directly in some ways once it was known that the deal was a scam. It's been reported that Vernon did give testimony via video during the trial in 1978 but I can't remember the source.

The only book I recall that mentioned this was the Memphis Mafia book, and that was just a brief mention that this occurred. In Larry Geller's If I Can Drean, Larry talks about men in business suits visiting Elvis and speaking alone with him. Afterwards, Larry said Elvis was disturbed....I don't recall the exact word, but it was something to that effect. Larry did not say who these men were or why they visited Elvis. Maybe he didn't know.

What you've posted is correct. Why anyone gets all upset is beyond me.
It doesn't mean "Elvis is alive" in any way. It's just showing what others refuse to look at. Admitting that he WAS threatened during his life and was
scammed out of lots of money .The people involved became known as "the Fraternity" though, not the Mafia, {though they might have had connections}

http://books.google.com/books?id=WVc87YdsL3YC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=peter+pro/elvis+presley&source=bl&ots=SBYhe2OQc0&sig=S_sTw16xtCa0KrYeM-Guwhe52TI&hl=en&ei=ppDLScLhLaLinQfnndzkCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPT1,M1

KPM
03-26-2009, 04:26 PM
What you've posted is correct. Why anyone gets all upset is beyond me.
It doesn't mean "Elvis is alive" in any way. It's just showing what others refuse to look at. Admitting that he WAS threatened during his life and was
scammed out of lots of money .The people involved became known as "the Fraternity" though, not the Mafia, {though they might have had connections}

http://books.google.com/books?id=WVc87YdsL3YC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=peter+pro/elvis+presley&source=bl&ots=SBYhe2OQc0&sig=S_sTw16xtCa0KrYeM-Guwhe52TI&hl=en&ei=ppDLScLhLaLinQfnndzkCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPT1,M1
No one is upset over "truth" The only truth in this is Elvis and others were scammed over airplane sales and refurbishing-everything else implied is just wild speculation which is what people object to.
The thinking of "Well this happened so then this must also be involved......."
is what bothers me.
Elvis was threatened in his life-by nuts-his life was threatened. There is no proof that the Mafia or the "Fraternity"(which when I ran a search turned up little) ever threatened Elvis or anyone else scammed. Rich people do get scammed... yesterday, today and tomorrow...it happens. Its about money...not death.
The problem is taking a grain of truth-and then speculating and conjecting things into supposed facts-and those speculations always end up pointing at two places.....Elvis faked his death...........Elvis was murdered by the mob, mafia, "Fraternity etc......because he was going to testify against them. Silly speculation with no real facts except Elvis and others were scammed.
Heres a link to a pretty well researched timeline of these speculations and the books, tapes, and videos which resulted from some interconnected people who were promoting them...
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_dna_beeny.html
Remember the Bill Bixby special where most of the speculative claims were debunked-and explained-like the Ali/Elvis photo from the 80s -it was a business associate of Ali-who looked a little like Elvis and shadows made him look even more like Elvis-this guy came out and solved the mystery.
But some still point to this photo-as total proof Elvis is alive and the conspiracy theorys are valid.....unreal.

KPM
03-26-2009, 04:43 PM
It was Vernon, who had power of attorney to act on Elvis' behalf, and Elvis' lawyer Beecher Smith who entered into this complex sale/lease contract with Pro. The case did continue and there were convictions. I'm pretty sure one of the crooks who helped the prosecution went into the Witness Protection Program. It's been awhile since I poured through all of FBI files concerning this....I only gave a link for Part 7, but there's much, much more. In Part 7, it mentions Elvis sending Milo High, his pilot, to Florida to retrieve the plane, so it seems Elvis did get involved directly in some ways once it was known that the deal was a scam. It's been reported that Vernon did give testimony via video during the trial in 1978 but I can't remember the source.

The only book I recall that mentioned this was the Memphis Mafia book, and that was just a brief mention that this occurred. In Larry Geller's If I Can Drean, Larry talks about men in business suits visiting Elvis and speaking alone with him. Afterwards, Larry said Elvis was disturbed....I don't recall the exact word, but it was something to that effect. Larry did not say who these men were or why they visited Elvis. Maybe he didn't know.
Once again business men in suits???
Larry reports business men in suits visit Elvis so that is an indication of some sinister force or FBI connections? Elvis seemed disturbed by the visit-Larrys judgement call which could have meant any number of things.
To be fair who else might have worn suits to see Elvis.................anyone he knew.... or that he was involved with in business, entertainment industry, local friends, off duty policemen since Elvis had many of those in Memphis, someone Elvis told in a converstion "Drop by and see me if you get to Memphis" he was known to do this on tour in other states etc......
Logical non threateneing reasons are plentiful....
In Gellers first book "the Truth About Elvis" I do not recall any mention of men in suits who left Elvis upset-you have to ask yourself If this really had some significance to Geller-why not in the first book when memories were much clearer?? Because perhaps it was time to write another book...with something new in it?
Also the premise of IF I Can Dream is a little hard to take:
A biography of Elvis Presley which, the authors claim, was largely overseen by Presley himself. Geller, Presley's hairdresser, who describes himself as a confidant and spiritual advisor to the late singer........

sasha
03-26-2009, 06:21 PM
No one is upset over "truth" The only truth in this is Elvis and others were scammed over airplane sales and refurbishing-everything else implied is just wild speculation which is what people object to.
The thinking of "Well this happened so then this must also be involved......."
is what bothers me.
Elvis was threatened in his life-by nuts-his life was threatened. There is no proof that the Mafia or the "Fraternity"(which when I ran a search turned up little) ever threatened Elvis or anyone else scammed. Rich people do get scammed... yesterday, today and tomorrow...it happens. Its about money...not death.
The problem is taking a grain of truth-and then speculating and conjecting things into supposed facts-and those speculations always end up pointing at two places.....Elvis faked his death...........Elvis was murdered by the mob, mafia, "Fraternity etc......because he was going to testify against them. Silly speculation with no real facts except Elvis and others were scammed.
Heres a link to a pretty well researched timeline of these speculations and the books, tapes, and videos which resulted from some interconnected people who were promoting them...
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_dna_beeny.html
Remember the Bill Bixby special where most of the speculative claims were debunked-and explained-like the Ali/Elvis photo from the 80s -it was a business associate of Ali-who looked a little like Elvis and shadows made him look even more like Elvis-this guy came out and solved the mystery.
But some still point to this photo-as total proof Elvis is alive and the conspiracy theorys are valid.....unreal.

These "stories" have been going around for over 30 years .
IMO, they only hurt sometimes. I'm only pointing out that whenever the Fountain Pen conspiracy is brought up, everyone jumps to the conclusion that someone is "pushing the Alive" thing. Personally, I'm not. But, to be so defensive stops anyone from really knowing other things in Elvis' life. Example: I've seen some laugh at the idea that he ever was threatened. That's just as misleading and puts a lot of people down.

I know Larry Kolb {in the Ali picture} and no, it was not Elvis !
He's very nice and will talk to most people. Especially if you've read one of his
books.;) He's led an interesting life .

KPM
03-26-2009, 07:24 PM
These "stories" have been going around for over 30 years .
IMO, they only hurt sometimes. I'm only pointing out that whenever the Fountain Pen conspiracy is brought up, everyone jumps to the conclusion that someone is "pushing the Alive" thing. Personally, I'm not. But, to be so defensive stops anyone from really knowing other things in Elvis' life. Example: I've seen some laugh at the idea that he ever was threatened. That's just as misleading and puts a lot of people down.

I know Larry Kolb {in the Ali picture} and no, it was not Elvis !
He's very nice and will talk to most people. Especially if you've read one of his
books.;) He's led an interesting life .
My point is its okay to say "Elvis was scammed" thats true and to the point-the FBI had been watching this group-not just because of Elvis-but because many more were scammed and the FBI was gathering evidence because of the scams on many-not just Elvis.
I recalled this plane/scam after the mention-it is not of central importance to Elvis's life and more importantly his death-that is where I think all of these "Conspiracy laden theorys" do do harm.
You have to admit-someone always makes the leap to "Elvis had to fake his death" or "Elvis was killed by the mob"
Its a mountain out of nothing-not even a molehill!
There is not one shred of evidence that Elvis was threatened because of this scam-none-its all speculation. Was he ever threatened in his life-sure its been reported in every major book-but by the nameless nutcases-not the mob or Fraternity or some sinister plot of death to keep his testimony from happening. This is where it does harm-you are not learning a new thing about Elvis and his life-you are learning a small fact-which is blown out of proportion-and if you look at the names mentioned in the timeline I posted the link to-by some of the same people...............are they wanting people to learn of new things in Elvis's life-or to sell conspiracy books which raise peoples hopes that Elvis did not die.....sadden them by impling he was murdered. This is the harm IMO

sasha
03-26-2009, 10:53 PM
Vernon had great concerns he might have been murdered.
He had Dick Grob look into it. Seems he might have better reason to wonder than any of us. NOT from the mafia or the Fraternity --but, others.
Did anyone call Vernon "a conspiricy theorist? "
IMO, that term has been worn out, for many things.

You're right those guys scammed many before Elvis and afterwards.
I think it was just the time of the scheduled court appearances in Memphis that fell in the same time period as the death.


Sorry, I'm not able to stay on here long at trimes.
Want to look further at other things too.
Have a nice evening.

Getlo
03-26-2009, 11:10 PM
No one is upset over "truth" The only truth in this is Elvis and others were scammed over airplane sales and refurbishing-everything else implied is just wild speculation

Precisely, KPM.

And just how much money was Elvis bilked out of anyway?

Much ado about nothing.

KPM
03-26-2009, 11:48 PM
Vernon had great concerns he might have been murdered.
He had Dick Grob look into it. Seems he might have better reason to wonder than any of us. NOT from the mafia or the Fraternity --but, others.
Did anyone call Vernon "a conspiricy theorist? "
IMO, that term has been worn out, for many things.

You're right those guys scammed many before Elvis and afterwards.
I think it was just the time of the scheduled court appearances in Memphis that fell in the same time period as the death.


Sorry, I'm not able to stay on here long at trimes.
Want to look further at other things too.
Have a nice evening.
See this is what I am talking about-people write books and stretch, twist and speculate.........ad nauseum....with little of substance to back it up.
Vernon was worried about being murdered??? According to Grob...."The Elvis Conspiracy"???
Who was Vernon afraid of being murdered by "what others"?? For what reason would anyone want to murder Vernon??

sasha
03-27-2009, 05:17 AM
See this is what I am talking about-people write books and stretch, twist and speculate.........ad nauseum....with little of substance to back it up.
Vernon was worried about being murdered??? According to Grob...."The Elvis Conspiracy"???
Who was Vernon afraid of being murdered by "what others"?? For what reason would anyone want to murder Vernon??

No, Vernon thought someone killed Elvis.
As far as I know ,they never found any truth to that.
I was just trying to show; Vernon had his questions too.

Never mind. People believe what they want .
You sleep well with what you know.

TotallyInsane
03-27-2009, 05:58 PM
Elvis wasn't murdered. He isn't dead. I know. But you never will. IAM.

OK, whatever you say!! If you're ever in Texas drop on by - would love to see you again!!:lmfao:

Miss Clawdy
03-27-2009, 06:13 PM
Elvis wasn't murdered. He isn't dead. I know. But you never will. IAM.

Wouldn't you like to come back to Germany? Please let me know ;)!

Rhinestone
03-27-2009, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=KPM;296507]No one is upset over "truth" The only truth in this is Elvis and others were scammed over airplane sales and refurbishing-everything else implied is just wild speculation [QUOTE]

Precisely, KPM.

And just how much money was Elvis bilked out of anyway?

Much ado about nothing.

I think it was a over a million dollars, Getlo.

Anything that isn't documented in the FBI files and court records can't be anything but speculation.

But it was the Presley case and the convictions that stopped these swindlers....at least for some time. Google Nigel Winfield.

This is just my opinion, but Vernon and Elvis must have kept this "close to the chest" since as KPM had pointed out, none of the inner circle discussed this in their books (the exception being the brief mention in the Revelations from the Memphis Mafia book). If any of Elvis' circle had had first hand information about it, it's my opinion they would have talked about it. I'm not saying they were.... I've never seen any verifiable evidence to support this....but isn't it possible that Vernon and Elvis were feeling threatened or being threatened??? Vernon would be a witness in this case.

Two of the things I've learned about Elvis are: 1. He was fascinated by law enforcement and 2. He loved to give but he hated to be taken.

I think this case would have been a big deal for him. Throw away all the Elvis Alive/Elvis was murdered stuff and just look at this case for what it was...

sasha
03-27-2009, 08:41 PM
Elvis wasn't murdered. He isn't dead. I know. But you never will. IAM.

There must be a reason you say these things.
Problem is, it's people like you that won't let others have a decent conversation. IF he's not dead; so be it.
Please stop interupting if you offer no proof of the things you say.
Otherwise, I will just not acknowlege you're here.
Thank you. :)

sasha
03-27-2009, 09:24 PM
[quote=Getlo;296567][QUOTE=KPM;296507]No one is upset over "truth" The only truth in this is Elvis and others were scammed over airplane sales and refurbishing-everything else implied is just wild speculation

I think it was a over a million dollars, Getlo.

Anything that isn't documented in the FBI files and court records can't be anything but speculation.

But it was the Presley case and the convictions that stopped these swindlers....at least for some time. Google Nigel Winfield.

This is just my opinion, but Vernon and Elvis must have kept this "close to the chest" since as KPM had pointed out, none of the inner circle discussed this in their books (the exception being the brief mention in the Revelations from the Memphis Mafia book). If any of Elvis' circle had had first hand information about it, it's my opinion they would have talked about it. I'm not saying they were.... I've never seen any verifiable evidence to support this....but isn't it possible that Vernon and Elvis were feeling threatened or being threatened??? Vernon would be a witness in this case.

Two of the things I've learned about Elvis are: 1. He was fascinated by law enforcement and 2. He loved to give but he hated to be taken.

I think this case would have been a big deal for him. Throw away all the Elvis Alive/Elvis was murdered stuff and just look at this case for what it was...

Here you go. Nigel Winfield is still amongst us. :)
It just is what it is.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/012506dnmetlobbyists.122fa520.html

Prison time
He served a federal prison term in the 1980s for conspiring to evade $7.4 million in taxes while living the high life selling jets and owning racehorses. In 1982, he was sentenced to six months for his role in trying to defraud Elvis Presley out of $330,000 through a complicated leasing scheme on a private jet.

Genie
03-27-2009, 11:08 PM
:doh:
Dear friends,

From a friend of mine I have received the following question, to which I could not give any answer:

"Is it true that Elvis, just before the date of his death, was helping the FBI as a witness in a trial against the mafia. It seems he knew something about a "dirty" purchase or sale of an airplane done by the mafia..."

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Elvisly greetings,

DannyBoy:doh:
God we are on shakey ground here, but YES!:'(

Genie
03-27-2009, 11:11 PM
Total crap.

Absolute rubbish.

Complete BS.

Does that answer your question?
:blink:
Getlo, this is fine if it is your opinion, it just isn't true.
How much do you know or realise that you state remarks that are incorrect, only because you do not know the real facts of the situation?

Genie
03-27-2009, 11:12 PM
Elvis had been conned out of an airplane by a man named Frederick Pro, who was part of an organization known as the Fraternity, worldwide racketeers who had already bilked millions from people. Some members of the Fraternity had strong ties with mafia bosses. The FBI had been carrying out an undercover operation against them. The FBI files, Part 7, page 70, http://foia.fbi.gov/elvis/elvis7.pdf, the Memphis field office says that the Presley case was to presented to the Federal Grand Jury "on or about August 15." It does not say Elvis was to testify. It's anyone's guess what Elvis' participation was/would have been in this case. It's tedious reading (many passages are blacked out) but it will you an understanding of the players and Vernon's, Beecher Smith's, and Elvis' actions in this case.

Page 91, http://foia.fbi.gov/elvis/elvis7.pdf, and on gives a good picture of what went on.

:) CORRECT!

Getlo
03-28-2009, 01:55 AM
:blink:
Getlo, this is fine if it is your opinion, it just isn't true.
How much do you know or realise that you state remarks that are incorrect, only because you do not know the real facts of the situation?

The plane story has been around for years.

Yes, Elvis may have been conned of some cash.

But he was not involved in any trial against the mafia, nor can his death be linked to this case.

It's just ridiculous.

Genie
03-28-2009, 07:13 AM
:hmm:
The plane story has been around for years.

Yes, Elvis may have been conned of some cash.

But he was not involved in any trial against the mafia, nor can his death be linked to this case.

It's just ridiculous.

I am just amazed at how you manage to all but call people "Liar's" and not being a moderator, I find this odd.
We may not agree, but I don't come right out and basically insult you with giant letters.
I don't need to. I know what I know, I am who I am, and I am not saying Elvis is alive and well, I am saying he was asked to be placed into witness protection, due to what he knew, and how much he knew. Now if he did it, I don't know for certain, but I sure wont be caught saying...NO NO NO NO
Can you try a little kindness or something?

sasha
03-28-2009, 09:27 AM
:hmm:

I am just amazed at how you manage to all but call people "Liar's" and not being a moderator, I find this odd.
We may not agree, but I don't come right out and basically insult you with giant letters.
I don't need to. I know what I know, I am who I am, and I am not saying Elvis is alive and well, I am saying he was asked to be placed into witness protection, due to what he knew, and how much he knew. Now if he did it, I don't know for certain, but I sure wont be caught saying...NO NO NO NO
Can you try a little kindness or something?

I am new here, but have to agree. That person always seems to be on the offensive.:doh: It is he/she that keeps bringing up the Elvis Alive thing.
Perhaps he/she can't be bothered with looking at what's being said. Good thing people don't rely on them to report by using facts. There's a lot of things people don't know about Elvis. ;)

Getlo
03-30-2009, 10:36 AM
I am just amazed at how you manage to all but call people "Liar's" and not being a moderator, I find this odd.

Really? And where did I say anyone was a liar? I said the story of Elvis being involved in a trial about the mafia was complete BS. And it is.


Can you try a little kindness or something?

Can you try a little reality?


I am new here, but have to agree. That person always seems to be on the offensive.:doh: It is he/she that keeps bringing up the Elvis Alive thing.

What? And just where did I bring up Elvis being alive? That, in fact, is a subject I try to avoid unless someone suggests it could be possible.

Welcome back, btw.


I am saying he was asked to be placed into witness protection, due to what he knew, and how much he knew.

Absolute, 100% rubbish.

Tommy
03-31-2009, 12:09 AM
Keep it nice here friends.

Getlo
03-31-2009, 12:19 AM
Keep it nice here friends.

"Nice" is my middle name, T ... ;)

-----

My point is that the FBI witness protection story is plain nuts.

What did Elvis know? (and when did he know it?);
Who aproached him about going into hiding?;
How would the FBI have hidden Elvis Presley - the most famous person in the world!- and where would he have been hidden?

Had Elvis himself been approached for this, he would have mentioned it. In fact, he would have dined out on it! He loved cloak and dagger stuff.

Witness protection over a plane deal gone wrong?

I think not.

The theory does not stack up to basic scrutiny.

Genie
03-31-2009, 05:38 AM
Really? And where did I say anyone was a liar? I said the story of Elvis being involved in a trial about the mafia was complete BS. And it is.



Can you try a little reality?



What? And just where did I bring up Elvis being alive? That, in fact, is a subject I try to avoid unless someone suggests it could be possible.

Welcome back, btw.



Absolute, 100% rubbish.

:mad: Getlo, you are looking for a problem... in the topic someone (probably you) did suggest he may be alive..or not?
I live with a great deal of reality, and one of those are that you like to mess with posts so that others are always on guard. Wondering what they did wrong. Is it impossible for you to behave or be nice?

Getlo
03-31-2009, 09:53 AM
:mad: Getlo, you are looking for a problem.

My only problem is so-called fans spreading unmitigated crap like this.


in the topic someone (probably you) did suggest he may be alive..or not?

Not. As I have said before, anyone who believes Elvis is alive or faked his death in 1977 is a mental defective.


you like to mess with posts so that others are always on guard.

I see. So questioning the validity and veracity of posts is "messing" with them? Wake up.

This tale of witness protection is errant nonsense. It simply does not stand up to any serious scrutiny. None whatsoever.

You've regurgitated this rubbish - a silly story that has been doing the rounds for many years - without any reasonable proof. As KPM said, it is all pure speculation. And fantastic speculation at that.


Is it impossible for you to behave or be nice?

When confronted by fantasies that give Wanda June Hill a good run for her money ... no.

KPM
03-31-2009, 06:41 PM
:hmm:

I am just amazed at how you manage to all but call people "Liar's" and not being a moderator, I find this odd.
We may not agree, but I don't come right out and basically insult you with giant letters.
I don't need to. I know what I know, I am who I am, and I am not saying Elvis is alive and well, I am saying he was asked to be placed into witness protection, due to what he knew, and how much he knew. Now if he did it, I don't know for certain, but I sure wont be caught saying...NO NO NO NO
Can you try a little kindness or something?
What did he know and about whom
I am sorry this is ridiculous-Elvis was asked to be put in a witness protection program -and you know this for sure? You know it how-from any real evidence other than wild speculation. Mountain from a molehill I say it again.
100 people can be scammed or taken-but include Elvis' namd in the mix-and suddenly their is a sinister angle involved-the mafia are out to kill Elvis and he is asked (or the implication is he goes) into a witness protection program.
James Bond type stuff. I'm sorry all the self published books in the world do not make it true.

KPM
03-31-2009, 07:01 PM
[quote=Getlo;296567][QUOTE=KPM;296507]No one is upset over "truth" The only truth in this is Elvis and others were scammed over airplane sales and refurbishing-everything else implied is just wild speculation

I think it was a over a million dollars, Getlo.

Anything that isn't documented in the FBI files and court records can't be anything but speculation.

But it was the Presley case and the convictions that stopped these swindlers....at least for some time. Google Nigel Winfield.

This is just my opinion, but Vernon and Elvis must have kept this "close to the chest" since as KPM had pointed out, none of the inner circle discussed this in their books (the exception being the brief mention in the Revelations from the Memphis Mafia book). If any of Elvis' circle had had first hand information about it, it's my opinion they would have talked about it. I'm not saying they were.... I've never seen any verifiable evidence to support this....but isn't it possible that Vernon and Elvis were feeling threatened or being threatened??? Vernon would be a witness in this case.

Two of the things I've learned about Elvis are: 1. He was fascinated by law enforcement and 2. He loved to give but he hated to be taken.

I think this case would have been a big deal for him. Throw away all the Elvis Alive/Elvis was murdered stuff and just look at this case for what it was...See this is the problem-you yourself admit,
"This is just my opinion.......I've never seen any verifiable evidence to support this....."
Sure anything is possible if you use your imagination and speculate.
But Elvis loving the "cloak and dagger" would never have played this close to the chest-he would have mentioned it to all the MM and would have discussed possible things which could come from this and things to do to minimize threats. He did not do this.
When threats had been placed on his life-they had detailed meetings to prepare for any contigency-this did not happen in this case.
Had Elvis suddenly changed his way of thinking about threats to him-but also to Lisa, Vernon etc........???
No he did not-he just was not worried.
This case was not new and the investigation had been ongoing-but Elvis had toured as normal in 76 and into 77. Would Elvis have Lisa with him as often as he did in 76 and 77 if he were worried about someone trying to kill him or kidnap Lisa as a retaliation for something? Sorry logic and existing evidence tells me this is just a group of people making outlandish claims in books to make a profit.

KPM
03-31-2009, 07:12 PM
:blink:
Getlo, this is fine if it is your opinion, it just isn't true.
How much do you know or realise that you state remarks that are incorrect, only because you do not know the real facts of the situation?
But see Genie you are the one saying "we do not know the real facts of the situation" We do know what most of the MM say, we know what the FBI records say, we know what the court records say. None of these imply Elvis was in danger nor that any witness protection program offer was made.
But you say we do not know the facts-okay here is your chance explain to us all the "facts" you know-and back them up. Isn't that a fair thing to ask-show us how you know that all the facts I mention are lies.
Billy Smith was one of the closest people on earth to Elvis-he has never said anything about a great danger because of this plane scam-nor an FBI recommendation that Elvis go into the witness protection system.
Were you closer than Billy Smith? Were you closer than Joe E., or Jerry Shilling none mention anything remotely like this.
This is a fair question-if you do not want to show proof of claims you make-then you should not make them and invite the question.
Its pretty much understood here if you make a claim on anything from the smallest detail to big ones you are open to question of some proof or source.
Its fair for me -its fair for you.

KPM
03-31-2009, 07:18 PM
"Nice" is my middle name, T ... ;)

-----

My point is that the FBI witness protection story is plain nuts.

What did Elvis know? (and when did he know it?);
Who aproached him about going into hiding?;
How would the FBI have hidden Elvis Presley - the most famous person in the world!- and where would he have been hidden?

Had Elvis himself been approached for this, he would have mentioned it. In fact, he would have dined out on it! He loved cloak and dagger stuff.

Witness protection over a plane deal gone wrong?
I think not.

The theory does not stack up to basic scrutiny.
My thoughts exactly.
What other Hollywood star who has been scammed by others was ever asked to go into a witness protection program for fear of life.

KPM
03-31-2009, 07:19 PM
Recent scam of many stars -will they go into the WPP for fear of life-the Italian name could mean mafia connections ????
Matt Damon, Ben Stiller and Ben Affleck were among the young Hollywood stars allegedly scammed by high-flying Wall Street broker Dana Giacchetto, 37, a Prada-wearing fund manager who is due in Manhattan Federal Court today. The feds are accusing Giacchetto of fraud, and he could get up to 10 years for running what is being described as an elaborate shell game. Giacchetto -- who used to party with Leonardo DiCaprio, spend vacations with superagent Mike Ovitz and Courteney Cox Arquette and her family, and reputedly provide stock tips to Q-Tip, Cameron Diaz and Gwyneth Paltrow -- allegedly misappropriated money from his clients' accounts into another account, which, investigators say, was then used for such things as paying Giacchetto's personal credit card bills. Among the broker's client list and the sums involved, according to documents filed by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission: the rock band Phish ($4.7 million), Courteney Cox Arquette ($825,000), Lauren Holly ($300,000), Ben Stiller ($250,000), Matt Damon ($100,000) and Ben Affleck ($20,000). That's an awful lot of credit card bills.

utmom2008
03-31-2009, 08:31 PM
But you say we do not know the facts-okay here is your chance explain to us all the "facts" you know-and back them up. Isn't that a fair thing to ask-show us how you know that all the facts I mention are lies.
Billy Smith was one of the closest people on earth to Elvis-he has never said anything about a great danger because of this plane scam-nor an FBI recommendation that Elvis go into the witness protection system.
Were you closer than Billy Smith? Were you closer than Joe E., or Jerry Shilling none mention anything remotely like this.
This is a fair question-if you do not want to show proof of claims you make-then you should not make them and invite the question.
Its pretty much understood here if you make a claim on anything from the smallest detail to big ones you are open to question of some proof or source.
Its fair for me -its fair for you.

:notworthy(y):notworthy(y):notworthy(y):notworthy

Merry
03-31-2009, 09:15 PM
:blink:
Getlo, this is fine if it is your opinion, it just isn't true.
How much do you know or realise that you state remarks that are incorrect, only because you do not know the real facts of the situation?But see you are the one saying "we do not know the real facts of the situation" We do know what most of the MM say, we know what the FBI records say, we know what the court records say. None of these imply Elvis was in danger nor that any witness protection program offer was made.
But you say we do not know the facts-okay here is your chance explain to us all the "facts" you know-and back them up. Isn't that a fair thing to ask-show us how you know that all the facts I mention are lies.
Billy Smith was one of the closest people on earth to Elvis-he has never said anything about a great danger because of this plane scam-nor an FBI recommendation that Elvis go into the witness protection system.
Were you closer than Billy Smith? Were you closer than Joe E., or Jerry Shilling none mention anything remotely like this.
This is a fair question-if you do not want to show proof of claims you make-then you should not make them and invite the question.
Its pretty much understood here if you make a claim on anything from the smallest detail to big ones you are open to question of some proof or source.
Its fair for me -its fair for you.


Alright.

What is your full name, and where do you live?

Merry
03-31-2009, 09:15 PM
[/b][/u]

:notworthy(y):notworthy(y):notworthy(y):notworthy



Alright.

What is your full name, and where do you live?

Merry
03-31-2009, 09:17 PM
"Nice" is my middle name, T ... ;)

-----

My point is that the FBI witness protection story is plain nuts.

What did Elvis know? (and when did he know it?);
Who aproached him about going into hiding?;
How would the FBI have hidden Elvis Presley - the most famous person in the world!- and where would he have been hidden?

Had Elvis himself been approached for this, he would have mentioned it. In fact, he would have dined out on it! He loved cloak and dagger stuff.

Witness protection over a plane deal gone wrong?

I think not.

The theory does not stack up to basic scrutiny.


Alright.

What is your full name, and where do you live?

You've refused to give your real name, first or otherwise, before.

By the way, who are you three to make the Rules?

No more from me, this place, as a wise man said to me, whom I adore, is ****

KPM
03-31-2009, 09:51 PM
Alright.

What is your full name, and where do you live?

You've refused to give your real name, first or otherwise, before.

By the way, who are you three to make the Rules?

No more from me, this place, as a wise man said to me, whom I adore, is ****
We are not making rules-there is an "unwritten understanding" here that if you have say something-give a source, give some proof. But we are not saying we knew Elvis- at least I do not claim to be anything but a fan-who has read over 40 plus years many things on Elvis. If you are claiming you knew Elvis-what would you expect others to do when you do so? Anyone and his brother can come on and claim (or imply) everything from "They are Elvis" to any other wild exposition on his life.

If anyone is claiming that they knew Elvis and that they have "facts" which are not supported by nearly all accounts of situations in his life-you are going to get asked questions. I do not think that unfair-nor unkind.
Truth is truth-and if you can prove it-you have nothing to fear. But if you do not want the questions-then maybe its best to keep it to yourself. By saying you know the truth-and that "your truth is contrary to what has been told"-you set yourself up to be asked -how. This is fair.
You can't go into a court-say,
"I have the truth -everyone else is wrong"
and get the outcome your way just on your sayso. The judge would say "okay prove it to the satisfaction of the jury" with evidence.
So what some of us have understood is this forum is really no different than the fairness of our judicial system.
Sure most do not want there names known on a public forum-but most do not make claims of extreme closeness to Elvis and then proclaim knowledge of facts on his life and death. (which do not jive in anyway shape or form with 99% of all people who knew him)
I may not like nor agree with all the books written about Elvis-"but they are on record, their names are on the covers" they take the praise and ridicule for what they write or claim. Thats fair.

Brian
03-31-2009, 10:30 PM
This thread is confusing to me

I can't tell if Ken is questioning Genie or Getlo because the posts are doing those things again where someone says something and it comes out that someone that quoted them is credited with saying what they actually said.

see what I mean?

KPM
03-31-2009, 10:30 PM
Heres a book which took 10 years of research which addresses many theorys about Elvis's life and death"
"Elvis Decoded"
In Patrick Lacy's recent release, Elvis Decoded, which debunks many of the conspiracy stories which have blossomed around the Elvis name since his death in 1977, Lacy expresses strong criticism of the Grob tome.

Lacy dissects many of Grob's claims and concludes that they are not believable, logically flawed, and based on unprofessional, sloppy and biased investigative work. This is strong condemnation indeed......
http://www.elvisdecoded.com/

KPM
03-31-2009, 10:31 PM
This thread is confusing to me

I can't tell if Ken is questioning Genie or Getlo because the posts are doing those things again where someone says something and it comes out that someone that quoted them is credited with saying what they actually said.

see what I mean?
I am in total agreement with Getlo if that helps you Brian.

Brian
03-31-2009, 10:46 PM
I am in total agreement with Getlo if that helps you Brian.

well I'll throw in with both of you guys

It's my understanding that Elvis was conned out of some money by a crooked businessman (not the Colonel for a change) over the airplane deal, over a million dollars I think but all this talk about the FBI putting him into hiding over it is B.S.

The guy was a crooked businessman not a hired killer for the mob
besides even if Elvis had dealings with the mob and his life was in serious danger it would be impossible to hide a famous person in the Witness protection and that would be the only reason for the FBi to try to do that.
of course that's just hypothetical.

Kevin Bacon and a lot of other people were conned out of a lot of money by Bernie Madoff but the FBI isn't going to put Kevin Bacon in the Witness Protection program.

utmom2008
03-31-2009, 10:51 PM
We are not making rules-there is an "unwritten understanding" here that if you have say something-give a source, give some proof. Anyone and his brother can come on and claim (or imply) everything from "They are Elvis" to any other wild exposition on his life.

Truth is truth-and if you can prove it-you have nothing to fear. But if you do not want the questions-then maybe its best to keep it to yourself. By saying you know the truth-and that "your truth is contrary to what has been told"-you set yourself up to be asked -how. This is fair.

Sure most do not want there names known on a public forum-but most do not make claims of extreme closeness to Elvis and then proclaim knowledge of facts on his life and death. (which do not jive in anyway shape or form with 99% of all people who knew him)
I may not like nor agree with all the books written about Elvis-"but they are on record, their names are on the covers" they take the praise and ridicule for what they write or claim. Thats fair.

Great points Ken...as usual you are right on target. What few small claims that I have stated about my past and Elvis I have been able to back up with pictures at least. The claims that I have made about my son meeting President Clinton, President Obama and Sen Clinton I have been able to back up with pictures.

Genie's stories are so far across the board timewise and location wise that it's only natural to have some questions. She is 62, born in Indianapolis and says that she was around for the "hayride" years. So, she was 10 years old and traveling around Longview,Texas?:blink: When she was 13 or 14 he was having in-depth serious conversations with her on movie sets? She worked as a body double/stunt woman to pay her way through college...was this undergrad or Med school, since there are insinuations that she is a vet, and also an RN. The only thing I can see that she wasn't a part of was being at his wedding....anything else that is mentioned she was there, including being on the front row of his very last concert, where she was also able to tell that he was "saying goodbye." I think it would be very odd on our end if we didn't have some questions!:blink::hmm:

KPM
03-31-2009, 11:05 PM
I found this at a site which called "Unsolved Mysteries"
The conclusions of the author at this site made me chuckle:

Cause Of Death - All of the following reasons have been given, at one time or another, as the cause of death of Elvis Presley:

* Heart attack.

* Drug Overdose.

* Suffocation in the carpeting.

* Suicide.

* Murder.

* Cancer of the bone marrow.
CONCLUSION
The following is the only explanation that I can come up with that would make these reasons true:

Someone injected Elvis with a cancer cell that would have eventually caused his death. This would have been murder. Elvis, after deciding that this was not the way he wanted to go, tried to commit suicide by taking a drug overdose. The drug of choice caused Elvis to have a heart attack. The pains from the heart attack caused him to fall out of his chair, land on his face, and suffocate in the carpeting.

KPM
03-31-2009, 11:15 PM
Top Ten Conspiracy Theories


1. September 11, 2001
2. The assassination of John F. Kennedy
3. A flying saucer crashed at Roswell in 1947
4. NASA faked the moon landings
5. The illuminated and new world order
6. The Jesus conspiracy
7. Diana, Princess Of Wales was murdered
8. Elvis Presley Faked his own death
9. Operation Northwoods
10. MK-Ultra

Getlo
04-01-2009, 09:36 AM
Alright.

What is your full name, and where do you live?

If I was making the claim that I met and knew Elvis, you'd be sure that I'd let everyone know exactly who I was.

There are a few people here who know who I really am. People I trust. People I like.

The final judgments on this other person's posts and her alleged friendship with Elvis can be easily accessed over on the AEK forum. They had her pegged from the start.


No more from me,

Don't tease me. You've said this before and come back.

Getlo
04-01-2009, 09:38 AM
I can't tell if Ken is questioning Genie or Getlo because the posts are doing those things again where someone says something and it comes out that someone that quoted them is credited with saying what they actually said.

That's because some can't use the "quote" function correctly.

-----

Another point: how on earth would the FBI have been able to hide Elvis Presley - arguably the most famous face on the planet - in witness protection?!

It is laughable. :lmfao:

KPM
04-01-2009, 06:29 PM
That's because some can't use the "quote" function correctly.

-----

Another point: how on earth would the FBI have been able to hide Elvis Presley - arguably the most famous face on the planet - in witness protection?!

It is laughable. :lmfao:
Absolutely-I can not even imagine how you would hide one of the most photographed faces to ever walk the planet. It would be impossible-especially someone who adored the limelight and was so use to being in and around crowds of people. Elvis himself would eventually have gone stir crazy if forced to hide and keep a low profile-this was not Elvis

Tony Trout
04-01-2009, 06:55 PM
Really? And where did I say anyone was a liar? I said the story of Elvis being involved in a trial about the mafia was complete BS. And it is.

Agreed.






What? And just where did I bring up Elvis being alive? That, in fact, is a subject I try to avoid unless someone suggests it could be possible.

You didn't and have never suggested that Elvis is alive. We all know he's gone. There are just some people out there who refuse to believe the hard/cold facts of reality.



Welcome back, btw.

You are/were reading my mind here, Getlo.




My point is that the FBI witness protection story is plain nuts.

What did Elvis know? (and when did he know it?);
Who aproached him about going into hiding?;
How would the FBI have hidden Elvis Presley - the most famous person in the world!- and where would he have been hidden?

Had Elvis himself been approached for this, he would have mentioned it. In fact, he would have dined out on it! He loved cloak and dagger stuff.

Witness protection over a plane deal gone wrong?

I think not.

The theory does not stack up to basic scrutiny.

BINGO!



:mad: Getlo, you are looking for a problem... in the topic someone (probably you) did suggest he may be alive..or not?
I live with a great deal of reality, and one of those are that you like to mess with posts so that others are always on guard. Wondering what they did wrong. Is it impossible for you to behave or be nice?


My only problem is so-called fans spreading unmitigated crap like this.



Not. As I have said before, anyone who believes Elvis is alive or faked his death in 1977 is a mental defective.



I see. So questioning the validity and veracity of posts is "messing" with them? Wake up.

This tale of witness protection is errant nonsense. It simply does not stand up to any serious scrutiny. None whatsoever.

You've regurgitated this rubbish - a silly story that has been doing the rounds for many years - without any reasonable proof. As KPM said, it is all pure speculation. And fantastic speculation at that.



When confronted by fantasies that give Wanda June Hill a good run for her money ... no.


Agreed 100% again!




What did he know and about whom
I am sorry this is ridiculous-Elvis was asked to be put in a witness protection program -and you know this for sure? You know it how-from any real evidence other than wild speculation. Mountain from a molehill I say it again.
100 people can be scammed or taken-but include Elvis' namd in the mix-and suddenly their is a sinister angle involved-the mafia are out to kill Elvis and he is asked (or the implication is he goes) into a witness protection program.
James Bond type stuff. I'm sorry all the self published books in the world do not make it true.


It's not true. It's pure fantasy.

sasha
11-17-2009, 02:16 PM
Let me say this:
I know one of the Presley attorneys & we've discussed this plane scam before.He was there; he testified . Eventually there were several that went to prison because of it.
To try & blow this off as BS or bring up any Elvis conspiracy stories just
shows some have a closed mind. There are many lies published in books as "truth" that Elvis fans buy into. Until you know & talk to the ones involved your knowledge is just as wrong & warpred as any consparacy theory.
The point of this thread had to do with the airplane scam. It happened !

It's only a few doing all the complaining that brought up anything about Elvis still being alive. Which automatically shuts people up.
Until you know as much as you think you do, better to remain quiet than prove ones ignorance.

Patrick Lacy is re-examining some things himself.
I've also seen several on here that are well into the Conspiracy sites, but notice they sing a different tune on here .

Bottom line; any question should be allowed without the fear of being ganged up on & jumped just for asking their question.
Or, as some do. Adding to it until it doesn't even resemble the original question.

sasha
11-17-2009, 02:25 PM
Elvis had been conned out of an airplane by a man named Frederick Pro, who was part of an organization known as the Fraternity, worldwide racketeers who had already bilked millions from people. Some members of the Fraternity had strong ties with mafia bosses. The FBI had been carrying out an undercover operation against them. The FBI files, Part 7, page 70, http://foia.fbi.gov/elvis/elvis7.pdf, the Memphis field office says that the Presley case was to presented to the Federal Grand Jury "on or about August 15." It does not say Elvis was to testify. It's anyone's guess what Elvis' participation was/would have been in this case. It's tedious reading (many passages are blacked out) but it will you an understanding of the players and Vernon's, Beecher Smith's, and Elvis' actions in this case.

Page 91, http://foia.fbi.gov/elvis/elvis7.pdf, and on gives a good picture of what went on.

Your understanding of this case is true.
Thank you for pointing out the truth to the original question.

monk37
11-17-2009, 04:05 PM
...
To try & blow this off as BS or bring up any Elvis conspiracy stories just
shows some have a closed mind. ....

it's an interesting thing - how people interpret open and closed minds.

Person A says Person B is open minded if they accept or are willing to concede merit to Person A's claims - and close minded if Person B dismisses it.

but open and closed minded isn't actually about a willingness to accept the claim's premise.

it's about a willingness to consider the evidence for the claim.


So, if Person A makes a claim for which there's no evidence, no logic or consistency with other known facts - then rejecting that claim is not being closed minded - it's actually a rapid assessment of the merits (none), the evidence (none) and the logic/probability (none) and reaching a conclusion - so highly improbably as to be stamped with "didn't happen"

however, all conclusions are subject to review if new or actual evidence is provided.


If you insist that open minded means allowing a possibility and probability to any claim - then it's impossible to have any critical thinking because you can't dismiss any claim - not Big Foot, Loch Ness, UFO abductions, vampires, ghosts, and Elvis is alive and in hiding, but sending out clues to special fans who will prepare the masses for his eventual return.


when really, for the last one, the higher probability is people who are exploiting the grief and wishful thinking of the gullible for monetary gain.


This is why there's a dozen or more people out there claiming to be Elvis children (or half sibling), but not actually moving their case in court or providing any evidence.

it's more lucrative to string the public along and you can make whatever claims you want - the court of public opinion is far more lax on evidence standards than court.

sasha
11-17-2009, 05:49 PM
it's an interesting thing - how people interpret open and closed minds.

it's more lucrative to string the public along and you can make whatever claims you want - the court of public opinion is far more lax on evidence standards than court.

Unfortunately, you're right.
However, most things are old facts. One only has to be willing to look at the proof to see what's real & what isn't.
Not much is unknown about Elvis; especially when you have court documents. The inner Elvis very few of the ones now living even knew him. Especially authors of the many books that's passed along as gospel.I don't ascribe to a living Elvis nor to other children. There are plenty of court cases to the latter that's been proved to be untrue.
Perhaps he deserves a rest & just enjoy all he gave us. :)

KPM
11-17-2009, 08:16 PM
Let me say this:
I know one of the Presley attorneys & we've discussed this plane scam before.He was there; he testified . Eventually there were several that went to prison because of it.
To try & blow this off as BS or bring up any Elvis conspiracy stories just
shows some have a closed mind. There are many lies published in books as "truth" that Elvis fans buy into. Until you know & talk to the ones involved your knowledge is just as wrong & warpred as any consparacy theory.
The point of this thread had to do with the airplane scam. It happened !

It's only a few doing all the complaining that brought up anything about Elvis still being alive. Which automatically shuts people up.
Until you know as much as you think you do, better to remain quiet than prove ones ignorance.

Patrick Lacy is re-examining some things himself.
I've also seen several on here that are well into the Conspiracy sites, but notice they sing a different tune on here .

Bottom line; any question should be allowed without the fear of being ganged up on & jumped just for asking their question. Or, as some do. Adding to it until it doesn't even resemble the original question.
IMO any question asked is given fair treatment-but that does not mean that people will not state their facts, concerns or ideas about the question....pro and con.
I think the part of this thread which bothered me was the "implication" of some foul play (mob hit, etc) concerning his death-or that "he was hidden away in the witness protection program" because he was somehow vital to the case.............
That implication-just from the asking of the question-came immediatly to my mind-because we have heard this theory before.
The idea that he was scammed in the plane deal was proven-its the implications of other things "unproven" which brought contention.
(Unproven things which many have made a cottage industry out of)
Heres a book which took 10 years of research which addresses many theorys about Elvis's life and death"
"Elvis Decoded"
In Patrick Lacy's recent release, Elvis Decoded, which debunks many of the conspiracy stories which have blossomed around the Elvis name since his death in 1977, Lacy expresses strong criticism of the Grob tome.

Lacy dissects many of Grob's claims and concludes that they are not believable, logically flawed, and based on unprofessional, sloppy and biased investigative work. This is strong condemnation indeed......http://www.elvisdecoded.com/

sasha
11-17-2009, 08:45 PM
IMO any question asked is given fair treatment-but that does not mean that people will not state their facts, concerns or ideas about the question....pro and con.
I think the part of this thread which bothered me was the "implication" of some foul play (mob hit, etc) concerning his death-or that "he was hidden away in the witness protection program" because he was somehow vital to the case.............
That implication-just from the asking of the question-came immediatly to my mind-because we have heard this theory before.
The idea that he was scammed in the plane deal was proven-its the implications of other things "unproven" which brought contention.
(Unproven things which many have made a cottage industry out of)
Heres a book which took 10 years of research which addresses many theorys about Elvis's life and death"
"Elvis Decoded"
In Patrick Lacy's recent release, Elvis Decoded, which debunks many of the conspiracy stories which have blossomed around the Elvis name since his death in 1977, Lacy expresses strong criticism of the Grob tome.

Lacy dissects many of Grob's claims and concludes that they are not believable, logically flawed, and based on unprofessional, sloppy and biased investigative work. This is strong condemnation indeed......http://www.elvisdecoded.com/

I understand. Just would like to see people talk sensibly without jumping to conclusions & second guessing what the question meant to ask. There's a yes, no and the best; I'll show you, you decide.

Patricks book was published 3 years ago. He's working on some other things. From what I got from his book; he too gave his opinions on many things. I couldn't see that he accomplished more than several others. Of course, he wasn't there either.Nor did he ever work as an investigator in any police work. He did well for what it was. It might be that any of us could write a book about Elvis as many have looked at his life longer than 10years.;)

KPM
11-17-2009, 09:14 PM
I understand. Just would like to see people talk sensibly without jumping to conclusions & second guessing what the question meant to ask. There's a yes, no and the best; I'll show you, you decide.

Patricks book was published 3 years ago. He's working on some other things. From what I got from his book; he too gave his opinions on many things. I couldn't see that he accomplished more than several others. Of course, he wasn't there either.Nor did he ever work as an investigator in any police work. He did well for what it was. It might be that any of us could write a book about Elvis as many have looked at his life longer than 10years.;)
Thats true-but he also systematically tore holes in the items of theory which somehow had taken on the air of fact over the telling and retelling.
Whether Lacy worked as a investigator is really not the point-any author who is researching something for a book is not a real investigator by definition...... but they are doing much of the same legwork a real investigator does.
The Presley Commission for example was a group which were promoting a group of theories and needed the air of legitimacy thus the "Commission"-which helped them sell books.

How many times since Elvis died-all the way back to the mystery singer on the Jerry Lee Lewis duet single "Save the Last Dance for Me" has someone taken a theory about something related to Elvis-and made money from it???
Only to find out years later-that it was totally bogus! Quite a few-and they do muddy the water for new claims. Its human nature to question what just does not seem-on the up and up.
If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck-its hard to not see............;)

sasha
11-17-2009, 10:53 PM
Thats true-but he also systematically tore holes in the items of theory which somehow had taken on the air of fact over the telling and retelling.
Whether Lacy worked as a investigator is really not the point-any author who is researching something for a book is not a real investigator by definition...... but they are doing much of the same legwork a real investigator does.
The Presley Commission for example was a group which were promoting a group of theories and needed the air of legitimacy thus the "Commission"-which helped them sell books.
How many times since Elvis died-all the way back to the mystery singer on the Jerry Lee Lewis duet single "Save the Last Dance for Me" has someone taken a theory about something related to Elvis-and made money from it???Only to find out years later-that it was totally bogus! Quite a few-and they do muddy the water for new claims. Its human nature to question what just does not seem-on the up and up.If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck-its hard to not see............;)

Never was aware the "Commission" wrote or sold any books.
That was some woman.

Many have made money off of Elvis & still do.
I don't like that.

It is human nature to question. To me, every question should be answered. I never get upset with questions. Only positive answers, when there aren't any sometimes. IF anyone finds a book that Elvis himself wrote,then I might consider the answers. Everything else is just someones opinion. The authors do borrow from each other too, instead of looking for themselves. Many things were not on the up & up in Memphis. I don't expect to ever know everything . I just like his music.:)

May
11-18-2009, 12:05 PM
Never was aware the "Commission" wrote or sold any books.
That was some woman.

Many have made money off of Elvis & still do.
I don't like that.

[I] IF anyone finds a book that Elvis himself wrote,then I might consider the answers. Everything else is just someones opinion. The authors do borrow from each other too, instead of looking for themselves. Many things were not on the up & up in Memphis. I don't expect to ever know everything . I just like his music.:)

Good point. (y)(y)

epmoodyblue
11-18-2009, 12:33 PM
pure fantasy(n)...flush this theory down the http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/selenauno/boy-flushed-down-toilet_ani.gifhttp://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/selenauno/smiley-gen101.gifhttp://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/joe1cooldude/th_icon2.gif

KPM
11-18-2009, 08:50 PM
Never was aware the "Commission" wrote or sold any books. That was some woman.

Many have made money off of Elvis & still do.
I don't like that.

It is human nature to question. To me, every question should be answered. I never get upset with questions. Only positive answers, when there aren't any sometimes. IF anyone finds a book that Elvis himself wrote,then I might consider the answers. Everything else is just someones opinion. The authors do borrow from each other too, instead of looking for themselves. Many things were not on the up & up in Memphis. I don't expect to ever know everything . I just like his music.:)

One of the several people in the Commission was Gail Brewer Giorgio who did make quite a bit off of the "Is Elvis Alive" series of books and tapes.
The others were I believe involved in books of their own or publishing books like the Giorgio book so the "Commission" did not as a group write books together and sell them-but each had a stake in the ideas of Elvis being alive, faking his death, going undercover etc....

I agree with your idea that if Elvis wrote a book he would have his own story to tell-and have for years here said this-but I have also applied the same human nature principles to Elvis.....that I apply to all authors of Elvis books.....that being that people tend to slant their own versions of truth in a way which sheds the most good light upon themselves and the darkest portions of their own being are not really given full exposure.

You are also correct that many things are just someones opinion-but many times those opinions are well informed-if you spend years with someone, even though you can not see into someones mind for motivation or reason,-you see the outer actions first hand and see the consequences of those actions upon others.
If enought people tell the same general story about a situation-the basic content shows thru...........even when details may differ from each particular telling.
I have read many books on the Nixon years and on Nixon-from people who were close to his presidency and life-I can tell you the story of interaction between Nixon and those close is very similar-although the details and particulars are not.
You can see who Nixon is by reading and comparing these books- his personality and mentality come thru in all books I have read-yet all have a little different take on the particulars.
Nixons books on himself and his presidency also seem to put his good foot forward and try to justify actions which seem unjustifible when viewed against known history and all the other books from people in the midst of his presidency.
Same IMO with Elvis-I truely think you can see who Elvis was by reading the books about him-the good and the bad. Nothing wrong in that we all have good and bad-and he was a human being like all here.
Their are the good positive books which emphasis the good, kindness and the greatness of Elvis and downplay the bad and visa versa.
Elvis was complex, and contradictory IMO and thats hard to pin down.

Lyndon
11-19-2009, 07:17 PM
Total crap.

Absolute rubbish.

Complete BS.

Does that answer your question?

No, its actually true. The most unwritten story ever...

monk37
11-20-2009, 07:06 AM
...I don't ascribe to a[I] living Elvis nor to other children. [..

I agree

if there had been any other kids - it's not at all reasonable that the woman would have hidden the child (even from Elvis) to protect Elvis' reputation or accepted a payoff.

the one who tried to claim she'd had his son - Peter Parker - was proven to be a fraud.


and if anyone had a reasonable suspicion that they were an Elvis offspring - they are long since out of time to proceed in court to prove it

you only have about 2 years from the discovery to move forward


it's what happened to Jett Williams - she waited too long to make a claim on the Hank Williams Sr estate - even though it's clear she is his daughter - she simply waited too long and she lost.