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Raised on Rock
01-04-2008, 06:58 AM
A controversial issue, what was in Elvis about wanting to meet President Richard Nixon? was he serious about all he speaked about in the letters he wrote asking for certain badge? or he was just telling those guys at the White House what they wanted to hear in order to get a highly priced almost unreacheble item in his badge collection.

Of course we cannot know what was really in Elvis mind about all this, but, after he became a Federal Agent, is there any evidence of Elvis actually doing a thing of what he told he could do for his Nation Goverment? Seems to me that he never did anything to take him seriously about his statments on those letters, or it was that secret?

Ok so what are your thoughts, issues and what kind of info we got from this.

john carpenter
01-04-2008, 12:52 PM
Elvis always wanted to be in some kind of law enforcement.I think he was sincere in wanting to meet President Nixon.Why would he travel all the way to Washington if it was just a joke? And Elvis wanted to kinda show off to his buddies that he could get anyone to do anything he wanted because he was one of the most famous men in the world.And he collected badges of all kinds.And i believe he wanted to be an undercover agent,and we will never know what his reasons were,or if he used that power later on.

Tony Trout
01-04-2008, 02:08 PM
I think Elvis's trip to Washington, DC on December 31, 1970 served two purposes....

1. To acquire the BNDD badge (and not just an honorary one)

2. To see Joyce Bova



Of course, this is just my opinion.....

Joe Car
01-04-2008, 02:11 PM
I believe he wanted the badge, but I also believe he mean't what he said. If you read the letter, he makes several good points as far as what was happening with America's youth at the time, which considering the era in which he had grown up as a teenager and young man, was like night and day when compared with the hippie movement of the late sixties, early seventies.

ricardo b. prospero
01-04-2008, 02:50 PM
The guy has a mind of hIs own and I believe he knows what he really is up to. The only thing we can do is speculate but never comes up with the truth

utmom2008
01-04-2008, 06:01 PM
..
2. To see Joyce Bova


I bet she didn't complain about it...he looked gorgeous during that outing!:lol:

cameron
01-04-2008, 06:27 PM
Don't even ask me which book I found this in...because I don't remember .
All I know is I'm the one that scanned it a long time ago. :blush:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/zorahday/DEAresponse.jpg

Diane
01-04-2008, 06:41 PM
Wow, very interesting Cameron, thanks for sharing!(y)

Diane

ksimms2
01-04-2008, 07:18 PM
well my eyesight is bad and I can't read what it says!

ksimms2
01-04-2008, 07:19 PM
nevermind, I clicked to make it bigger - DUH!

Joe Car
01-04-2008, 07:20 PM
I bet she didn't complain about it...he looked gorgeous during that outing!:lol:

So did she!(y)

utmom2008
01-04-2008, 08:38 PM
So did she!(y)
Can you post a pic from around that time??

Raised on Rock
01-04-2008, 09:13 PM
Elvis always wanted to be in some kind of law enforcement.I think he was sincere in wanting to meet President Nixon.Why would he travel all the way to Washington if it was just a joke? And Elvis wanted to kinda show off to his buddies that he could get anyone to do anything he wanted because he was one of the most famous men in the world.And he collected badges of all kinds.And i believe he wanted to be an undercover agent,and we will never know what his reasons were,or if he used that power later on.

Yes but this is what I mean, if he ONLY did all that in order to show off that he could get wherever he wanted to get and the badge was just a priced item for his collection, then there is no way to take him serious as an undercover agent. Watch it, Im no bashing Elvis, Im just asking: is there any evidence about Elvis Presley actually doing anything of what he said on those letters he wrote to the White House in '70? or after he got that badge he just went yeah! I got it! and became a concerned guy with a badge, before he was a conerned guy about America without a badge meee...

Raised on Rock
01-04-2008, 09:20 PM
I believe he wanted the badge, but I also believe he mean't what he said. If you read the letter, he makes several good points as far as what was happening with America's youth at the time, which considering the era in which he had grown up as a teenager and young man, was like night and day when compared with the hippie movement of the late sixties, early seventies.

Ok he was concerned, so, what did he did after he got that badge? thatīs what Im talking about here, Iīm not trying to discredit the guy, the other way Iīm trying to find out if there is any evidence of Elvis in fact doing something for his country as the so called undercover agent he was suposed to be, because you see, if there is no prove of that, the whole think will look as bad joke you know, just this guy words on letter can be read then as nothing more than a give me the badge, give me that badge, man I got to have it!

Raised on Rock
01-04-2008, 09:25 PM
Don't even ask me which book I found this in...because I don't remember .
All I know is I'm the one that scanned it a long time ago. :blush:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/zorahday/DEAresponse.jpg

Thanks Cameron, this is what Im talking about, although still do not prove much well its a start.

Joe Car
01-04-2008, 10:38 PM
Ok he was concerned, so, what did he did after he got that badge? thatīs what Im talking about here, Iīm not trying to discredit the guy, the other way Iīm trying to find out if there is any evidence of Elvis in fact doing something for his country as the so called undercover agent he was suposed to be, because you see, if there is no prove of that, the whole think will look as bad joke you know, just this guy words on letter can be read then as nothing more than a give me the badge, give me that badge, man I got to have it!

Action wise he didn't do a whole lot, but you have to keep in mind, he did work a lot during the seventies. From all accounts, he did support whoever was president and was a major supporter of policeman, which given the era, was pretty big because everybody and their brother involved in the hippie movement, and even people who weren't, really showed a lack of respect for the president, but even more so for policeman, or the "pigs" as they used to call them. He took time to speak and take pics with policeman in every city he toured in, despite it not being the "cool" thing to do.

Tony Trout
01-04-2008, 10:42 PM
Action wise he didn't do a whole lot, but you have to keep in mind, he did work a lot during the seventies. From all accounts, he did support whoever was president and was a major supporter of policeman, which given the era, was pretty big because everybody and their brother involved in the hippie movement, and even people who weren't, really showed a lack of respect for the president, but even more so for policeman, or the "pigs" as they used to call them. He took time to speak and take pics with policeman in every city he toured in, despite it not being the "cool" thing to do.


And the Memphis city police and surrounding areas showed their respect for Elvis during his funeral by taking part in whatever way they could to help the family.

Raised on Rock
01-04-2008, 11:17 PM
Action wise he didn't do a whole lot, but you have to keep in mind, he did work a lot during the seventies. From all accounts, he did support whoever was president and was a major supporter of policeman, which given the era, was pretty big because everybody and their brother involved in the hippie movement, and even people who weren't, really showed a lack of respect for the president, but even more so for policeman, or the "pigs" as they used to call them. He took time to speak and take pics with policeman in every city he toured in, despite it not being the "cool" thing to do.

The way he treated all people, in this case the way he treated police man, specialy during the 70's, speaks a lot of Elvis point of views about America, seems that some people needed Sep 11 to notice police man are not necesarly the bad dudes.

Yet, about what you are pointing out here, you donīt need a Federal Narcotics Badge (or whatever it was called) to take pics with the police forces or suporting them in anyway isnīt it? neither you need a badge to speak out your concerns about what is going on in your country something that in fact he never did and I believe he could have achieved more in doing it. So, once again, where he was going at by asking for the badge and stating in those letters that he really wanted to help his country about certain issues but he needed the badge for that? huh?

Anyhow, thanks to all for the kind replys.

P.S: As a sidenote, Sammy Davis Jr. visited Nixon in '71 and did asked for no badge.

cameron
01-04-2008, 11:29 PM
The way he treated all people, in this case the way he treated police man, specialy during the 70's, speaks a lot of Elvis point of views about America, seems that some people needed Sep 11 to notice police man are not necesarly the bad dudes.

Yet, about what you are pointing out here, you donīt need a Federal Narcotics Badge (or whatever it was called) to take pics with the police forces or suporting them in anyway isnīt it? neither you need a badge to speak out your concerns about what is going on in your country something that in fact he never did and I believe he could have achieved more in doing it. So, once again, where he was going at by asking for the badge and stating in those letters that he really wanted to help his country about certain issues but he needed the badge for that? huh?

P.S: As a sidenote, Sammy Davis Jr. visited Nixon in '71 and did asked for no badge.

Did you ever stop and think IF Elvis was to have ever went "undercover" no one could have said one thing about it. ;)

KPM
01-04-2008, 11:38 PM
Ok he was concerned, so, what did he did after he got that badge? thatīs what Im talking about here, Iīm not trying to discredit the guy, the other way Iīm trying to find out if there is any evidence of Elvis in fact doing something for his country as the so called undercover agent he was suposed to be, because you see, if there is no prove of that, the whole think will look as bad joke you know, just this guy words on letter can be read then as nothing more than a give me the badge, give me that badge, man I got to have it!
The real question is why did Nixon give him the badge with such ease?

jak
01-05-2008, 02:41 AM
The real question is why did Nixon give him the badge with such ease?

I think Nixon was just doing something that he thougth would help his image.Im sure he and his advisers were just looking for a nice photo opportunity.Elvis getting that badge was a huge farce.For his part Elvis was just playing out a fantasy and he got lucky.If Elvis Presley becoming a federal agent isnt completely absurd I dont know what is.The whole thing is just classic 70'S Presley from start to finish.It's so nuts you have to love it.
Jak

Getlo
01-05-2008, 02:49 AM
Elvis getting that badge was a huge farce.For his part Elvis was just playing out a fantasy and he got lucky.If Elvis Presley becoming a federal agent isnt completely absurd I dont know what is.The whole thing is just classic 70'S Presley from start to finish.It's so nuts you have to love it.

I wouldn't go so far as to call the meeting a farce. Elvis - in his own strange way - was being sincere. And Nixon, while certainly a crook and the second-worst US president in memory - was nothing if not polite.

Either way, it's one of the most bizarre and fascinating events of the 20th century.

Here is a good site that gives plenty of details about it all:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html

samiam125
01-05-2008, 03:14 AM
Here is a good site that gives plenty of details about it all:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html

Thanks Getlo for the link... very interesting site!

jak
01-05-2008, 03:18 AM
I wouldn't go so far as to call the meeting a farce. Elvis - in his own strange way - was being sincere. And Nixon, while certainly a crook and the second-worst US president in memory - was nothing if not polite.

Either way, it's one of the most bizarre and fascinating events of the 20th century.

Here is a good site that gives plenty of details about it all:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html

I use the word farce because that's the only way I can describe Elvis getting that badge.It's outrageous and something like that couldnt happen in this day and age.I do agree it's bizarre and fascinating to say the least.

utmom2008
01-05-2008, 03:53 AM
The whole thing is just classic 70'S Presley from start to finish.It's so nuts you have to love it.

I have always found it interesting that he took pictures of Lisa and Priscilla. Like Getlo said....in an offbeat sort of way he was very sincere. There's something about the whole thing that is really rather endearing.:notworthy

Getlo
01-05-2008, 04:02 AM
For those that don't know, there is an exhibit about the meeting at Graceland (in the Elvis After Dark, from memory).

It has loads of pictures, and videos featuring Jerry Schilling talking about the meeting. And Nixon speaks very highly of Elvis in the video as well.

A copy of Elvis' letter to Nixon is there, along with other documents. And the best thing is the display case featuring the outfits worn by both men on the day!

Not sure if the Nixon suit is still there though (it was in the middle of last year anyway) as the suit was on temporary loan from the Richard Nixon Library in California.

jak
01-05-2008, 04:04 AM
I absolutely think Elvis was sincere in his motives.Im not quite sure how rational he was however.I mean many men and women work very hard at their careers to achieve that posistion.Elvis just walks up and requests that badge with not having earned the right to do so.That's the farce for me.He didnt deserve that badge and shouldnt have gotten it.In no way had he paid his dues or earned it.He was just tliving out his fantasy role playing.To me it just belittles the people who actually strived to earn it.Im not slamming Elvis for getting it either.He was probably the only guy who could pull it off.
Jak

Raised on Rock
01-05-2008, 05:42 AM
Did you ever stop and think IF Elvis was to have ever went "undercover" no one could have said one thing about it. ;)

Yes, I did implied that on my first post a.k.a. thread starter if you read it:


[QUOTE=Raised on Rock;173089]
Seems to me that he never did anything to take him seriously about his statments on those letters, or it was that secret?
[QUOTE]

Anyhow, the we donīt know what he did cause its undercover, yes, it could be, sure why not, mmm... but seriously?

Raised on Rock
01-05-2008, 06:00 AM
The real question is why did Nixon give him the badge with such ease?

Desperation?


I absolutely think Elvis was sincere in his motives.Im not quite sure how rational he was however.

I follow you all the way. If he really wanted to do something about the issues he adressed in those letters, there were other ways in which he could have been more helpful and had much more impact than asking for this badge and meeting, an event that was seen for many as nothing more than a bizarre event.


I mean many men and women work very hard at their careers to achieve that posistion.Elvis just walks up and requests that badge with not having earned the right to do so.That's the farce for me.He didnt deserve that badge and shouldnt have gotten it.In no way had he paid his dues or earned it.He was just tliving out his fantasy role playing.To me it just belittles the people who actually strived to earn it.Im not slamming Elvis for getting it either.He was probably the only guy who could pull it off.
Jak

Plus, after he got it, what did he did to justify the whole thing?

Now, some people here are gonna hate me for this, but:

If Elvis Presley was probalby the only guy in America that was able to pull off something like the Nixon/Narcotics Badge event, all right Elvis, you probed you got the power man, now, why didnīt you came with somehting like that on getting better movie scrips in Hollywood, a better career image direction to RCA executives, or anyother aspect of your carreer that suposedly make you unhappy?

Well maybe Hollywood and the record industry is powerful than the White House.

Joe Car
01-05-2008, 12:08 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to call the meeting a farce. Elvis - in his own strange way - was being sincere. And Nixon, while certainly a crook and the second-worst US president in memory - was nothing if not polite.

Either way, it's one of the most bizarre and fascinating events of the 20th century.

Here is a good site that gives plenty of details about it all:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html (http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html)

You're right Getlo, truly a fascinating event, no doubt. Most people, ( especially male celebrities ), when meeting the president, are usually conservative in their attire, usually wearing a suit, not our boy! Frickin dressed to the nines, and looking every bit like Elvis Presley should, only he could pull it off.(y)

jak
01-05-2008, 12:17 PM
"Plus, after he got it, what did he did to justify the whole thing?

Now, some people here are gonna hate me for this, but:

If Elvis Presley was probalby the only guy in America that was able to pull off something like the Nixon/Narcotics Badge event, all right Elvis, you probed you got the power man, now, why didnīt you came with somehting like that on getting better movie scrips in Hollywood, a better career image direction to RCA executives, or anyother aspect of your carreer that suposedly make you unhappy?

Well maybe Hollywood and the record industry is powerful than the White House."

One of the best observations ever.I have said over and over.Elvis could have done anything he wanted.He wanted that badge and he made it happen.His motives for getting it were selfish and personal if you get right down to it.That badge did two things for him.The first is it became his crown jewel of his badge collection.The second thing was that it enabled him to carry a firearm wherever he went.That was the biggie for him.
Jak

cameron
01-05-2008, 12:32 PM
I'm not sure what anyone wanted Elvis to do.

How in the world would any of us "know" what he did or didn't do to help in the way he said he wanted ? Every bit of that kind of investigation is kept "off the record" ; especially in naming names of anyone involved in exposing known criminals.
Why do you think no DEA , CIA or FBI agent is ever named?
{I'm not saying he ever participated in anything like that.}
Just that if he did his name would never be made public.

Joe Car
01-05-2008, 12:41 PM
"Plus, after he got it, what did he did to justify the whole thing?

Now, some people here are gonna hate me for this, but:

If Elvis Presley was probalby the only guy in America that was able to pull off something like the Nixon/Narcotics Badge event, all right Elvis, you probed you got the power man, now, why didnīt you came with somehting like that on getting better movie scrips in Hollywood, a better career image direction to RCA executives, or anyother aspect of your carreer that suposedly make you unhappy?

Well maybe Hollywood and the record industry is powerful than the White House."

One of the best observations ever.I have said over and over.Elvis could have done anything he wanted.He wanted that badge and he made it happen.His motives for getting it were selfish and personal if you get right down to it.That badge did two things for him.The first is it became his crown jewel of his badge collection.The second thing was that it enabled him to carry a firearm wherever he went.That was the biggie for him.
Jak

Jak, some good points made, but I would read Jerry Schilling's interview, he sheds some light on this, and would know because he was not only their at the time, but was involved in the entertainment business as well, so he knows his stuff. I for one never realized just how much power the Colonel had with not only Elvis, but with the bigwigs as well!

jak
01-05-2008, 12:43 PM
Obviously Elvis wasnt performing the duties of an actual agent.Let's say for the sake of arguement he was actually performing "official" duties as an agent.If that was the case you dont get youre badge by going to the president and making a circus out of it.The guys that actually earn that badge dont broadcast the fact.Anybody as high profile as Elvis wouldnt want people to know he was an official agent.That whole scenrio of Elvis actually being an agent is hilarious.Elvis Presley a federaL drug enforcement agent?Anybody ever hear of the fox guarding the henhouse?The whole event was Elvis just playing supercop.Nothing more.It's good to be the king.
Jak

jak
01-05-2008, 12:45 PM
"Why do you think no DEA , CIA or FBI agent is ever named?"

Exactly.The reason Elvis showed his new badge to everyone that he could was it was merely a trophy.He was just like a kid with a new toy.

Joe Car
01-05-2008, 01:00 PM
"Why do you think no DEA , CIA or FBI agent is ever named?"

Exactly.The reason Elvis showed his new badge to everyone that he could was it was merely a trophy.He was just like a kid with a new toy.

That's certainly true. He must have showed it to Sammy Davis jr, because didn't Sammy ask Nixon for a badge in 71, but was refused?

jak
01-05-2008, 02:28 PM
That's certainly true. He must have showed it to Sammy Davis jr, because didn't Sammy ask Nixon for a badge in 71, but was refused?

I've never heard that about Sammy.I would be curious to know what his reasons were for wanting one.Elvis was just a law enforcement enthusiast so i do understand why he wanted it.

jak
01-05-2008, 02:32 PM
Jak, some good points made, but I would read Jerry Schilling's interview, he sheds some light on this, and would know because he was not only their at the time, but was involved in the entertainment business as well, so he knows his stuff. I for one never realized just how much power the Colonel had with not only Elvis, but with the bigwigs as well!

I did read that interview with Jerry.Very interesting.I have always liked him.I always remember one thing with him though.He is intricately tied up with EPE.Never expect him to really to cause any waves when discussing Elvis.He always portrays Elvis in a positive light.Im not saying that as a negative either.He's very respectfull of Elvis.I just dont look to him as giving a completely unbiased acount of events.He always covers for Elvis.
Jak

Donut
01-05-2008, 02:39 PM
That whole scenrio of Elvis actually being an agent is hilarious.Elvis Presley a federaL drug enforcement agent?Anybody ever hear of the fox guarding the henhouse?The whole event was Elvis just playing supercop.Nothing more.It's good to be the king.
Jak

LOLOL Thatīs one of the reasons I like Elvis so much.

Diane
01-05-2008, 03:30 PM
Me too Donut. No one else could have pulled that off the way he did and by gosh I think it deserves to go down in history.:lol:

Diane

Colonel7TCB
01-05-2008, 04:21 PM
It sure was what he, Elvis, believed in:
MORALS and no going down of morals in the USA of teenage girls that were going wild the wrong way....with the Beatles (cocaine, grass etc etc) and the ROLLING STONES (abnoxius behaviour full of low-class low-morals behaviour and illegal drugs).

tOO BAD IN THE WORLD THEY MIX UP THE AMERICAN WORD "DRUGS" AND DON 'T UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS PRESCRIBED BY A DOCTOR....although we, elvis fans know that Nick the Animal/Veter....doc did something very, very wrong and was so egoistic that our King ...passed out, died!!!! That's what Nick has got to live with on his consciousness......DEATH of Elvis.....

But EP told Nixon also because he saw what was gointohappen..Woodstock, crazyness, no-morals, no human behaviour etc that the Beatles started...and in general the bands....

And yes, Sir, he badly wanted that f**king badge (childish but he EP was human).....

KPM
01-05-2008, 08:12 PM
I think Nixon was just doing something that he thougth would help his image.Im sure he and his advisers were just looking for a nice photo opportunity.Elvis getting that badge was a huge farce.For his part Elvis was just playing out a fantasy and he got lucky.If Elvis Presley becoming a federal agent isnt completely absurd I dont know what is.The whole thing is just classic 70'S Presley from start to finish.It's so nuts you have to love it.
Jak
Subtitle it-"Superfly Goes to Washington":D

Diane
01-05-2008, 08:40 PM
Love it KPM! :):):) (y)

jak
01-05-2008, 09:19 PM
LOLOL Thatīs one of the reasons I like Elvis so much.

Agreed.There was nobody else like him, or even remotely in his league.

utmom2008
01-05-2008, 09:34 PM
Obviously Elvis wasnt performing the duties of an actual agent.Let's say for the sake of arguement he was actually performing "official" duties as an agent.If that was the case you dont get youre badge by going to the president and making a circus out of it.The guys that actually earn that badge dont broadcast the fact.Anybody as high profile as Elvis wouldnt want people to know he was an official agent.That whole scenrio of Elvis actually being an agent is hilarious.Elvis Presley a federaL drug enforcement agent?Anybody ever hear of the fox guarding the henhouse?The whole event was Elvis just playing supercop.Nothing more.It's good to be the king.
Jak
Great post Jak! (y)(y) Not much more to say about it. ;)

utmom2008
01-05-2008, 09:35 PM
Subtitle it-"Superfly Goes to Washington":D
:lol::lol::lol::lol: Now I can't get the "Superfly" song out of my head....:lmfao:

4THEHEART
01-05-2008, 09:37 PM
so sad in all his seriousness and honest ways,he still is a joke for the fans..yet this is not the first time I experience it..the true fantasy is the hell we live on earth today,not the way Elvis wanted the world to be,or the offer he made to those so called authorities..the only mistake was the place he brought his offer..White House..
we always take the wrong people serious and give them the licence to rule(kill)us and make fun of the ones who have "a dream" in their hearts just like our man Elvis,and somehow they disappear and live us alone with our reality and small thinkin,grown up world,and no place for dreams in this world..no worries son..Zey believes in ya..;)
Oh! btw..HAPPY NEW YEAR KIDS!!

utmom2008
01-05-2008, 09:48 PM
the only mistake was the place he brought his offer..White House..
we always take the wrong people serious and give them the licence to rule(kill)us

What??????????????????

4THEHEART
01-05-2008, 09:59 PM
whatever..

utmom2008
01-05-2008, 10:00 PM
whatever..
OK..............................

Diane
01-05-2008, 10:04 PM
I don't think anyone thinks of Elvis and his presidential visit as a joke. We're all pretty much in agreement that it was cool and that Elvis was probably the only person in the world who pull off something like that.

He was so totally a natural in his personality and otherwise that he caught people off guard and away he went and had them in knee deep before they even knew it. :lol:

Now if he could have worked that same magic on the Colonel and other decisions in his life, he would have had it made.

Diane

presley31
01-05-2008, 10:09 PM
so sad in all his seriousness and honest ways,he still is a joke for the fans..yet this is not the first time I experience it..the true fantasy is the hell we live on earth today,not the way Elvis wanted the world to be,or the offer he made to those so called authorities..the only mistake was the place he brought his offer..White House..
we always take the wrong people serious and give them the licence to rule(kill)us and make fun of the ones who have "a dream" in their hearts just like our man Elvis,and somehow they disappear and live us alone with our reality and small thinkin,grown up world,and no place for dreams in this world..no worries son..Zey believes in ya..;)
Oh! btw..HAPPY NEW YEAR KIDS!!

yep l know the feeling;)

4THEHEART
01-05-2008, 10:10 PM
well, Utmom..to make it clearer,I'm a citizen too in my country and I know very well who stabs me on my back very often..if you have some ideas to make world a better place, and some of us still can't give up worrying about this,govs are not the right place to go to.I speak generally and globally..ok..no politics..

utmom2008
01-05-2008, 10:16 PM
well, Utmom..to make it clearer,I'm a citizen too in my country and I know very well who stabs me on my back very often..if you have some ideas to make world a better place, and some of us still can't give up worrying about this,govs are not the right place to go to.I speak generally and globally..ok..no politics..
OK...I just didn't want to see this thread go into a debate on wether or not we need to be in Iraq. (n)

4THEHEART
01-05-2008, 10:23 PM
Hi Diane..not everyone of course but I can see how people connected this white house visit to drugs or classic 70's Elvis(??)..for some fans it was our fun loving kid was playing again,got his badge and went to home smiling..no, I'm not imagining things it's here..

cameron
01-05-2008, 10:25 PM
Well, I didn't think it was a joke. But, that's my opinion.
I believe his intentions were sincere . Whether Nixon took him up on any of that is another story.
I have only seen the letters hanging at Graceland thanking him.
What he did or did not do. No one's saying and doubt they ever will.
He was a good guy with good intentions, IMO. (y)

thedoc
01-05-2008, 10:30 PM
HA HA! Zeyster! you got lost?
Hi Cameron! good one.

Diane
01-05-2008, 10:35 PM
He was a good guy with good intentions.....says it all!(y)

Diane

4THEHEART
01-05-2008, 10:40 PM
:D hey doc !..you're giving me a bad heartburn..what's the right med??:P
btw,tell your doggy my kitty is trying to sleep here..:):)or your connection is off in a minute.:P

4THEHEART
01-05-2008, 10:42 PM
back to our subject..we all need good intentions Diane and it's urgent..even our dreams forbidden..:sad:

thedoc
01-05-2008, 11:21 PM
Now,that was cruel Zeysky! cutting my line off??
Ok,I'll ask my dog to be silent as a watchdog then.lol lol lol
Other than this, I agree what you said ol' friend.

Raised on Rock
01-06-2008, 01:50 AM
It sure was what he, Elvis, believed in:
MORALS and no going down of morals in the USA

OK, Elvis believed in morals, and he did not agree with many issues about politics and other stuff happening among young people in America by the latte 60's early 70's. What did he did about it? keept his opinions to himself? Following Cameron, ok maybe he did something as a Federal Agent and that is totally secret and we will never know, but really?

I mean, being the pulbic figure he was, there where other ways to make things happend for a better world (appart of giving to us some great music of course) than pulling out that Badge circus and playing cops.

Sure thing, Elvis in his purple velvet coat at the White House getting a narcoticīs badge, he must have been the most influential guy in america, and he was sure the coolest guy on earth, as KMP put it, thatīs Supperfly having his way through the W.H. But a real serious attempt to change things in America for a better world?

Im do not doubt Elvis opinions about what was going on in America where genuine and that they where good for sure, but about making the diference aiming to a better world, thatīs something he did through his singing and there is no doubt about it, but being a federal undercover agent? lol, I think that was Elvis being Elvis which was the coolest thing ever... well and thatīs also making a diference for a better world isnīt it?

Now you are talking about morals, wonder what went on through Elvis head after Watergate '73.

P.S. Dear Elvis, yourself indulgence and bad habits (not gonna name them now) where neither for the good of America and was no moral example for the youth of your country or anyother country. I request you now a TCB Badge that allow me to get you straigh once again no matter how either you like it or not.

Raised on Rock
01-06-2008, 02:21 AM
It sure was what he, Elvis, believed in:
MORALS and no going down of morals in the USA of teenage girls that were going wild the wrong way....with the Beatles (cocaine, grass etc etc) and the ROLLING STONES (abnoxius behaviour full of low-class low-morals behaviour and illegal drugs).

tOO BAD IN THE WORLD THEY MIX UP THE AMERICAN WORD "DRUGS" AND DON 'T UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS PRESCRIBED BY A DOCTOR....although we, elvis fans know that Nick the Animal/Veter....doc did something very, very wrong and was so egoistic that our King ...passed out, died!!!! That's what Nick has got to live with on his consciousness......DEATH of Elvis.....

But EP told Nixon also because he saw what was gointohappen..Woodstock, crazyness, no-morals, no human behaviour etc that the Beatles started...and in general the bands....

And yes, Sir, he badly wanted that f**king badge (childish but he EP was human).....


1. "Teenage girls going wild the wrong way", wasnīt that the same thing they blamed Elvis for back in the 50's?

2. Wasnīt the succes The Beatles and The Stones had in the 60's only due to the road Elvis had already paven back in the 50's?

3. What did The Beatles or The Stones ever did that wasnīt something that Elvis also did before, at the same time or after Dec '70? (acusations of abnoxius behaviour full of low-class low-morals, incite youth to delicuency, and denigrating the youth included)

4. Prescribed meds are not the same thing as street drugs, thatīs a fact. Anyhow Elvis also did also tried grass and LSD during the 60's, and although he never got hooked on that, well none of the Beatles did and except for Brian Jones and Keith (who latter on got clean something that Elvis didnīt manage to do) neither the rest of the Stones. Sir Paul McCarntey is alive, healthy and clean living in the UK, so is Mick Jagger, yet Presley did got hooked on prescribed meds and died because his addiction to them.

5. Canīt say how much Nixon needed anybody told him Woodstock was about to happend as it arealdy had happened year and a half before Elvis meeting him.

6. In which ways was Woodstock and crazyness? no human behaivour. And in which ways was that diferent from what Elvis stared out back in the 50's, ahh! remember when Presley rolled up with Nipper (RCA dog pet) across the stage and was treatened by L.A. police that was as close as some one can be to be arrested for inmoral behaivour? and remember what that meant to a whole generation? THe so called Woodstock generation, mostly, they were Elvis peers, shocked in fact that his one time hero hanged out now with Nixon.

7. The Bands, what they did statded? they just continue with what Elvis started, and that is rock and roll and there is nothing wrong about it.

8. What did The Bealtes and Stones really had to do with the REAL problems in america by the latte 60's? sure, as the rock icons of their generations, did gave voice with their music and attitudes to a generation, just as Elvis did for the 50's teenagers (Lennon/McCartney included on those) and he received same bashing from the stablishment as the Stones in the 60's. But calling them resposable? responsable for what?

9. Elvis was in fact sincere about his concerns, yet a little bit confused about who to blame and the how were gonna solve it from my point of view, that, or once again, he was just telling Nixon what he wanted to hear in order to get that badge.

jak
01-06-2008, 03:12 AM
I feel the need to mention that good intentions are no excuse for him getting that badge.That was indeed a joke.Elvis was an entertainer who liked to play cops and robbers with real badges and guns.He was not a trained law enforcement official.Elvis used his clout to get what he wanted from Nixon.I dont know if many people here know how difficult it is to become a federal DEA agent.It requires extensive training and a screening processs.For Elvis to get that badge by merely asking for it was a serious lapse of judgement for Nixon.He was just using Elvis for his own gain in his mind.I sincerely hope that nobody here actually thinks Elvis was qualified to be a DEA agent.
Jak

cameron
01-06-2008, 04:38 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/zorahday/i.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/zorahday/2.jpg

cameron
01-06-2008, 04:48 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/zorahday/6.jpg

jak
01-06-2008, 04:56 AM
Have you ever seen such tragic irony as those White House documents?Elvis offering to help with the countries drug problem while he is nearing to begin his own self destruction on drugs.Like I said Nixon was using Elvis and vice versa.Nixon just thought Elvis might bolster his poor image.That is the only reason Nixon even agreed to see him.I believe in an interview much later in his life he was asked his impression of Presley.I think he called Elvis "odd" when recounting the visit.
Jak

cameron
01-06-2008, 06:11 AM
It's ok, I'd rather be odd than be a crook.

The only tragedy I see is Nixon should have followed this through ;
and left Watergate alone.

utmom2008
01-06-2008, 06:32 AM
It's ok, I'd rather be odd than be a crook.

I have to agree with you on that one!(y)

utmom2008
01-06-2008, 06:36 AM
Have you ever seen such tragic irony as those White House documents?Elvis offering to help with the countries drug problem while he is nearing to begin his own self destruction on drugs.Like I said Nixon was using Elvis and vice versa.Nixon just thought Elvis might bolster his poor image.That is the only reason Nixon even agreed to see him.I believe in an interview much later in his life he was asked his impression of Presley.I think he called Elvis "odd" when recounting the visit.
Jak
I realize what you are saying Jak. While the story is fascinating, almost make-believe, it's also very very sad to me. To read those official documents as to how they planned to work together is unbelievable. Elvis never gave it another thought after he left The White House. You are right..they did use each other. However, Nixon didn't need to call Elvis "odd". That's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me. Remember...we all called him "Tricky Dicky".....;)

jak
01-06-2008, 12:31 PM
I can see a tragic twist for both Nixon and Elvis.However it was Nixon who ended up redeemming himself to a point in the end.Nixon emerged from the disgrace of Watergate and reinvented himself.He became an aclaimed statesman and accomplished author.Obviously Elvis couldnt overcome the demons in his own life.The same ones he volunteered to fight for his country.Soon after the historic meeting both men would face huge challenges.It's a shame only one of them emerged from it.
Jak

Donut
01-06-2008, 12:38 PM
Is anyone here seriously thinking that Elvis deserved being a Federal Agent in the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs?
His intentions could have been all the good you want to think but he certanly wasnīt the person qualified in any way to perform that duty neither to serve as an example for it. So Iīd rather take it all as a big joke and as an example of his charming persuasion skills.
Thereīs no one like him for sure ;)

jak
01-06-2008, 12:47 PM
"So Iīd rather take it all as a big joke and as an example of his charming persuasion skills."

That's exactly what it was.Elvis got his badge and on Nixon's end he got a photo op trying to make himself look cool with the king.They both got what they wanted I guess.In nothing else it's a nice piece of Elvis lore that seems to suit him perfectly.

jak
01-06-2008, 12:48 PM
Is anyone here seriously thinking that Elvis deserved being a Federal Agent in the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs

I sure hope not.

cameron
01-06-2008, 01:26 PM
I don't know what Elvis "deserved." Certainly not what happened to him.
That's for sure, IMO.

I have never "seen" that Nixon did anything to improve his rep either .
Until the present one came along; he was known as the "worst president we ever had ." :P

jak
01-06-2008, 01:39 PM
I don't know what Elvis "deserved." Certainly not what happened to him.
That's for sure, IMO.

I have never "seen" that Nixon did anything to improve his rep either .
Until the present one came along; he was known as the "worst president we ever had ." :P

Actually Nixon's transformation was incredible.He became a renowned speaker who was incredibly in demand.He became an elder statesman in the true sense of the word.Dont forget he wrote some bestselling books along the way.He totally reversed his fortunes.I think Carter would give Nixon a run for the worst.

Joe Car
01-06-2008, 01:40 PM
Guys, prescription drugs was not killing the youth of America during the era when Elvis visited Nixon, heroin was. It was also LSD, marijuana, acid among other things. Also, some of the major rock stars from the sixties, were influencing these kids to take this stuff. I have seen several interviews of Jagger and company, where they were so high, it was unbelievable. It got to a point where it was just a given that rock stars were phucked up, that they did hard drugs. Lest we forget how many died from that crap. John Lennon had a heroin addiction, but to his credit, he kicked it. Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin, Jerry Garcia, Brian Jones and countless others battled that awful drug, which was not a secret, it was well-known. All one has to do is look back at tape from that era, and you'll realize how bad the situation was. When Elvis went and seen Nixon, he was pretty much under control and had an impeccable reputation at the time as far as his not taking drugs, which I'm sure Nixon was aware of. He got the badge so be it, it's the same as people donating money to a college and being given a degree of some sort. Back then, (at least in the adult work ), being an heroin addict, had the same stigma as a crack addict does today, probably worse.

cameron
01-06-2008, 01:44 PM
Actually Nixon's transformation was incredible.He became a renowned speaker who was incredibly in demand.He became an elder statesman in the true sense of the word.Dont forget he wrote some bestselling books along the way.He totally reversed his fortunes.I think Carter would give Nixon a run for the worst.

Who's talking about Carter?
Actually, since the posts have changed considerably , this needs to be in the OFF TOPIC threads .:blink:

Donut
01-06-2008, 01:45 PM
I don't know what Elvis "deserved." Certainly not what happened to him.


What happened to him? And what does it have to be with being a narcotics agent? :blink:

Joe Car
01-06-2008, 01:50 PM
I realize what you are saying Jak. While the story is fascinating, almost make-believe, it's also very very sad to me. To read those official documents as to how they planned to work together is unbelievable. Elvis never gave it another thought after he left The White House. You are right..they did use each other. However, Nixon didn't need to call Elvis "odd". That's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me. Remember...we all called him "Tricky Dicky".....;)

Compared to Nixon, Elvis was "odd!"

jak
01-06-2008, 02:00 PM
Guys, prescription drugs was not killing the youth of America during the era when Elvis visited Nixon, heroin was. It was also LSD, marijuana, acid among other things. Also, some of the major rock stars from the sixties, were influencing these kids to take this stuff. I have seen several interviews of Jagger and company, where they were so high, it was unbelievable. It got to a point where it was just a given that rock stars were phucked up, that they did hard drugs. Lest we forget how many died from that crap. John Lennon had a heroin addiction, but to his credit, he kicked it. Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin, Jerry Garcia, Brian Jones and countless others battled that awful drug, which was not a secret, it was well-known. All one has to do is look back at tape from that era, and you'll realize how bad the situation was. When Elvis went and seen Nixon, he was pretty much under control and had an impeccable reputation at the time as far as his not taking drugs, which I'm sure Nixon was aware of. He got the badge so be it, it's the same as people donating money to a college and being given a degree of some sort. Back then, (at least in the adult work ), being an heroin addict, had the same stigma as a crack addict does today, probably worse.

Dont you think it's a mistake to view Elvis' drug use as any lesser of the two evils?Prescription vs street drugs.Elvis' drugs were just as harmfull and destructive as any street drug.I think it's that view that enabled Elvis to tell himself that he didnt have a problem to begin with.I think he also thougth he was taking drugs that were "ok".
I also think Elvis getting the badge was very different form donating money to a college.When Elvis got that DEA badge it enabled him to carry a gun on his person anywhere in the country.He got an official badge and not a honoray one.Im sorry to say Elvis wasnt capable to carry a firearm on his person.He was to unpredicatable.
Jak

MissyM
01-06-2008, 02:01 PM
To me Elvis was always half 12 year old and half man. That helps me reason a lot of his actions. The man was in denial big time about the drugs he was taking-to him they were just meds. The 12year old wanted to play cops and robbers. In hind-sight, knowing what we know now, it certainly is ironic and sad.

Getlo
01-06-2008, 02:10 PM
It was also LSD, marijuana, acid among other things.

No one's ever died as a direct result of marijuana usage ...

MissyM
01-06-2008, 02:22 PM
Thank you Getlo!

cameron
01-06-2008, 02:27 PM
No one's ever died as a direct result of marijuana usage ...
Maybe not directly, but indirectly ,I know of a few.
It can sure ruin some lives from what I've seen.
Many go on to "harder drugs".

Getlo
01-06-2008, 02:47 PM
Many go on to "harder drugs".

Some do, but they are in the very small minority. The idea that marijuana is a "gateway" drug was disproven long ago.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#gateway'

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_6921879

cameron
01-06-2008, 03:06 PM
Contrary to many opinions; I've never been against legalizing marijuana
for medicinal purposes . It seems to help many dealing with pain.
I've just been one that always hated to even take an aspirin .

MissyM
01-06-2008, 03:29 PM
I don't take many meds either, but am all for legalization for all purposes. So many myths concerning it. That's why if Elvis smoked it, I have no problem with that at all! Matter of fact I can think of some people who I think should.

Joe Car
01-06-2008, 04:34 PM
No one's ever died as a direct result of marijuana usage ...

No, but it was a major problem in 69/70!

Diane
01-06-2008, 04:39 PM
I don't know enough about marijuana to offer much of an opinion whether it should be legalized or not but I don't like anything that is mind altering. There are enough screwed up heads out there already.

I got to thinking about all the posts about Elvis being of help with the drug situation with the young and agreed that being on drugs himself was not the most logical person to preach. But on the other hand no one knew about his problem so he may just have helped some stay away from it and that's a plus in his favor no matter how you look at it.

Diane

Joe Car
01-06-2008, 04:45 PM
Dont you think it's a mistake to view Elvis' drug use as any lesser of the two evils?Prescription vs street drugs.Elvis' drugs were just as harmfull and destructive as any street drug.I think it's that view that enabled Elvis to tell himself that he didnt have a problem to begin with.I think he also thougth he was taking drugs that were "ok".
I also think Elvis getting the badge was very different form donating money to a college.When Elvis got that DEA badge it enabled him to carry a gun on his person anywhere in the country.He got an official badge and not a honoray one.Im sorry to say Elvis wasnt capable to carry a firearm on his person.He was to unpredicatable.
Jak

In 1970, by most accounts, Elvis had his prescription drug use in control so you can't possible compare that to a heroin addiction. Donating money to a college and getting a degree because of a donation, is not earning it in my book, as some people have said about Elvis' motives for that badge. The fact remains is that, a check was written, that's it, at least Elvis respected law enforcement and the presidency for that matter, which is more that can be said for a lot most celebrities and hippies back then. Elvis had a permit for his guns, so why shouldn't he have been allowed to carry one?

jak
01-06-2008, 05:17 PM
"Elvis had a permit for his guns, so why shouldn't he have been allowed to carry one?"

I've had a concealed carry permit myself for 22 years.I've also been a firearms instructor.I can say in no uncertain terms that anyone who is capable of discharging a firearm indoors,at a car,or at chandeliers and light switches out of frustation or fun is capable of carrying a gun.Just because it's Elvis displaying such reckless behaviour doesnt make it endearing.Elvis' behaviour with guns was shocking and incredibly *****ic.He needed a swift kick in the rear and his carry privileges revoked.This is the only time I will say I hope he did what he did because he was stoned and that it wasnt his true nature being reflected.Considering his views on law enforcement it makes his gunplay even more disturbing.
Jak

KPM
01-06-2008, 06:14 PM
Some do, but they are in the very small minority. The idea that marijuana is a "gateway" drug was disproven long ago.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#gateway'

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_6921879
I can only go from personal experience with pot smokers, I had some relatives who use to use it-then they sold it and other harder things. One of them did go on to very hard drugs and is no longer with us. Another ended up going to jail.
I had a co-worker in the 70s who use to go to her car on breaks and smoke it-when she came back - she w-a-s "worthless". She could not remember prices, she would laugh at the most *****ic things and she could just space out. (I watched her one day hold a tray of merchandise for 5 minutes-just holding it and not moving a muscle) I think its obvious that how it affects people varies quite a bit and this is an example of why it should not be legalized. IMO
http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html
Effects on the Brain

Scientists have learned a great deal about how THC acts in the brain to produce its many effects. When someone smokes marijuana, THC rapidly passes from the lungs into the bloodstream, which carries the chemical to organs throughout the body, including the brain.

In the brain, THC connects to specific sites called cannabinoid receptors on nerve cells and influences the activity of those cells. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors; others have few or none. Many cannabinoid receptors are found in the parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thought, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement4.

The short-term effects of marijuana can include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception; difficulty in thinking and problem solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate. Research findings for long-term marijuana abuse indicate some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term abuse of other major drugs. For example, cannabinoid (THC or synthetic forms of THC) withdrawal in chronically exposed animals leads to an increase in the activation of the stress-response system5 and changes in the activity of nerve cells containing dopamine6. Dopamine neurons are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward, and are directly or indirectly affected by all drugs of abuse.


Effects on the Heart

One study has indicated that an abuser's risk of heart attack more than quadruples in the first hour after smoking marijuana7. The researchers suggest that such an effect might occur from marijuana's effects on blood pressure and heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of blood.


Effects on the Lungs

A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers8. Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.

Even infrequent abuse can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, often accompanied by a heavy cough. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers do, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, a heightened risk of lung infections, and a greater tendency to obstructed airways9. Smoking marijuana possibly increases the likelihood of developing cancer of the head or neck. A study comparing 173 cancer patients and 176 healthy individuals produced evidence that marijuana smoking doubled or tripled the risk of these cancers10.
Marijuana abuse also has the potential to promote cancer of the lungs and other parts of the respiratory tract because it contains irritants and carcinogens9,11. In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke12. It also induces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form—levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells13. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which increases the lungs' exposure to carcinogenic smoke. These facts suggest that, puff for puff, smoking marijuana may be more harmful to the lungs than smoking tobacco.
I think Elvis for once made the right choice concerning a stimulant.

thedoc
01-06-2008, 06:24 PM
How strange Elvis didn't hurt anybody with his "incapable" gun using.Furniture? that's better than to hurt breathing creatures,after all there was always a crowd around him.So I see,he was at least capable of shooting the targets.I wonder,if drugs help with it?.

cameron
01-06-2008, 06:36 PM
I agree with KPM and the ramifications of using marijuana .
I have one son in law that displays the after effects mentioned.
Actually, I'm thinking maybe another.
It might not kill you, but it sure can mess with your mind.

That's why I can only agree for it to be legalized as a "pain med" when nothing else seems to work. At the end of life, mostly.

jak
01-06-2008, 06:46 PM
How strange Elvis didn't hurt anybody with his "incapable" gun using.Furniture? that's better than to hurt breathing creatures,after all there was always a crowd around him.So I see,he was at least capable of shooting the targets.I wonder,if drugs help with it?.

So it's good to shoot your gun in the house as long as the room is crowded?

presley31
01-06-2008, 06:48 PM
So it's good to shoot your gun in the house as long as the room is crowded?

good point Jak(y)

thedoc
01-06-2008, 06:56 PM
Sure it's too risky,but that drugs, you thought as a reason of his gun using,doesn't match with this situation.I mean everyone is alive in the house,except Elvis.One more thing is,people use rat poison or chemicals for insects "in their houses" which terrifies me,and is totaly wrong.They still do.lol, lol

utmom2008
01-06-2008, 06:59 PM
"Elvis had a permit for his guns, so why shouldn't he have been allowed to carry one?"

I've had a concealed carry permit myself for 22 years.I've also been a firearms instructor.I can say in no uncertain terms that anyone who is capable of discharging a firearm indoors,at a car,or at chandeliers and light switches out of frustation or fun is capable of carrying a gun.Just because it's Elvis displaying such reckless behaviour doesnt make it endearing.Elvis' behaviour with guns was shocking and incredibly *****ic.He needed a swift kick in the rear and his carry privileges revoked.This is the only time I will say I hope he did what he did because he was stoned and that it wasnt his true nature being reflected.Considering his views on law enforcement it makes his gunplay even more disturbing.
Jak

Let's all be honest here.....what in the world would have happened had he actually shot and killed Linda while she was in the bathroom?? Would it have been OK because Nixon gave him a badge?? The first time you hear that story it's amusing (to some), the 2nd time it's not quite so funny...;);)

utmom2008
01-06-2008, 07:01 PM
"Elvis had a permit for his guns, so why shouldn't he have been allowed to carry one?"

I've had a concealed carry permit myself for 22 years.I've also been a firearms instructor.I can say in no uncertain terms that anyone who is capable of discharging a firearm indoors,at a car,or at chandeliers and light switches out of frustation or fun is capable of carrying a gun.Just because it's Elvis displaying such reckless behaviour doesnt make it endearing.Elvis' behaviour with guns was shocking and incredibly *****ic.He needed a swift kick in the rear and his carry privileges revoked.This is the only time I will say I hope he did what he did because he was stoned and that it wasnt his true nature being reflected.Considering his views on law enforcement it makes his gunplay even more disturbing.
Jak

I was going to answer that, but you said it all! I agree....100%. (y)

utmom2008
01-06-2008, 07:05 PM
How strange Elvis didn't hurt anybody with his "incapable" gun using.Furniture? that's better than to hurt breathing creatures,after all there was always a crowd around him.So I see,he was at least capable of shooting the targets.I wonder,if drugs help with it?.
Remember....he missed Linda Thompson by inches. Did he mean to just barely miss her?? ;)

thedoc
01-06-2008, 07:09 PM
Oh! maybe there are dozens still laying, in the cellar!!!!

cameron
01-06-2008, 07:13 PM
Let's all be honest here.....what in the world would have happened had he actually shot and killed Linda while she was in the bathroom?? Would it have been OK because Nixon gave him a badge?? The first time you hear that story it's amusing (to some), the 2nd time it's not quite so funny...;);)

That was only one of the things I found "shocking " as I researched Elvis.
No, I don't think he needed to have guns if he didn't know what to do with them. "Someone" should have seen that they were "taken away".
I don't particuarilly like guns in the house anyway. But, the laws seem to have been different then.
No excuse; just an observation.

But, this thread really isn't about that. IMO.:)

jak
01-06-2008, 07:52 PM
That was only one of the things I found "shocking " as I researched Elvis.
No, I don't think he needed to have guns if he didn't know what to do with them. "Someone" should have seen that they were "taken away".
I don't particuarilly like guns in the house anyway. But, the laws seem to have been different then.
No excuse; just an observation.

But, this thread really isn't about that. IMO.:)

You are correct.Elvis didnt need all those guns around judging from his actions.This issue does relate to the thread however and isnt off topic.As I stated Elvis wanted that badge because it allowed him to carry concealed across any state line.Another big deal for him was that it enabled him to carry on any commercial flight if im not mistaken.Those are the reasons for getting that badge.
Jak

jak
01-06-2008, 07:54 PM
Remember....he missed Linda Thompson by inches. Did he mean to just barely miss her?? ;)

That's a good point.You would think that would have shaken him up.From the accounts we have Elvis just shrugged it off.Not good.

utmom2008
01-06-2008, 07:57 PM
That's a good point.You would think that would have shaken him up.From the accounts we have Elvis just shrugged it off.Not good.
Shrugged it off, and kind of laughed about it as best I remember. No...not good at all.

thedoc
01-06-2008, 08:59 PM
Wow!!you even know how he felt after that accident,according to famous "accounts".Please have a heart.

utmom2008
01-06-2008, 09:03 PM
Wow!!you even know how he felt after that accident,according to famous "accounts".Please have a heart.
I read what everyone else reads......;);)

Jumpsuit Junkie
01-06-2008, 10:53 PM
"Elvis had a permit for his guns, so why shouldn't he have been allowed to carry one?"

I've had a concealed carry permit myself for 22 years.I've also been a firearms instructor.I can say in no uncertain terms that anyone who is capable of discharging a firearm indoors,at a car,or at chandeliers and light switches out of frustation or fun is capable of carrying a gun.Just because it's Elvis displaying such reckless behaviour doesnt make it endearing.Elvis' behaviour with guns was shocking and incredibly *****ic.He needed a swift kick in the rear and his carry privileges revoked.This is the only time I will say I hope he did what he did because he was stoned and that it wasnt his true nature being reflected.Considering his views on law enforcement it makes his gunplay even more disturbing.
Jak

I agree that if all the events that have been attributed to Elvis are true then, yes, this man was a danger to himself and those around him! Living in the UK there isn't the same gun culture that there is in America. It is very difficult to understand from my perspective why you would need to have a gun in the house. I understand the reasons people do, just not the need.

As for the badge given from Nixon, as mentioned, a photo opportunity pure and simple (n)

Raised on Rock
01-07-2008, 02:38 AM
I don't know enough about marijuana to offer much of an opinion whether it should be legalized or not but I don't like anything that is mind altering. There are enough screwed up heads out there already.

I got to thinking about all the posts about Elvis being of help with the drug situation with the young and agreed that being on drugs himself was not the most logical person to preach. But on the other hand no one knew about his problem so he may just have helped some stay away from it and that's a plus in his favor no matter how you look at it.

Diane

Allright, Elvis drug problem didnīt exist in Dec '70, or at least we can say, everybody still believed he was the cleanest guy in showbussines. Yet, in the next years after the White House meeting on until the Aloha shows, when people might still believed he was all clean, do you believe Elvis really was an influence in any degree among the youth about not taking drugs? needles to say, do you believe he was at least a 10% of and influence compared to other artists that might influenced the youth in doing drugs? Iīm sorry but I believe the answer was a big no. Maybe, maybe if he was not the guy who always kept his view to himself he could have been somekind of an influence on those matters, anyhow, that was not really the case I believe.

Raised on Rock
01-07-2008, 02:49 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/zorahday/i.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/zorahday/2.jpg


Well there is no way I can think of Elvis doing an album called: "GEt HIGH ON LIFE" or "DOING A TV SPECIAL TEACHING PARENTS ABOUT THE HARMS OF DOING DRUGS AND HOW TO KEEP AWAY YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTER FROM THE POT", Wow!!! O.K Stop there!!! I rather think of Elvis as the reclusive Junkie living on pills (not saying necesary that he was one, neither that I do aprove that) than saw the KING pulling out that kind of usless crap.

Thanks for sharing these documents Cameron anyhow.

cameron
01-07-2008, 04:17 AM
Maybe we don't know Elvis as well as we think we do.
Only the image ....:P

Getlo
01-07-2008, 05:19 AM
No, but it was a major problem in 69/70!

It was as much of a "problem" then as it is now. It was only termed a menace by authorities who hadn't the slightest clue what they were talking about.

Just like today ...

Getlo
01-07-2008, 05:24 AM
As for the badge given from Nixon, as mentioned, a photo opportunity pure and simple (n)

But remember, the basic details of the Presley-Nixon meeting were kept secret for at least a year, and the photos didn't emerge until many years later.

Getlo
01-07-2008, 05:30 AM
do you believe Elvis really was an influence in any degree among the youth about not taking drugs?

Of course not, and it was ridiculous of Nixon and Elvis to have believed that.

Elvis was part of the Establishment by 1970, and was so far removed and unaware of what was really going on with the "young" people and the counter culture that it is rather funny to think that he believed kids would have taken him even remotely seriously.

I don't think Elvis' self-belief had anything to do with drugs per se, it's just that he was so out of touch. And had been for many years. While the kids were rockin' with Sgt Pepper, he was spewing out Clambake.

It was incredibly naive of him to believe he had even the slightest effect on most of the kids in 1970. But it's rather endearing as well, and I give him credit for wanting to make a difference - er, not that he ended up ever doing anything of course! ;)

utmom2008
01-07-2008, 05:46 AM
Elvis was part of the Establishment by 1970, and was so far removed and unaware of what was really going on with the "young" people and the counter culture that it is rather funny to think that he believed kids would have taken him even remotely seriously.

It was incredibly naive of him to believe he had even the slightest effect on most of the kids in 1970. But it's rather endearing as well, and I give him credit for wanting to make a difference - er, not that he ended up ever doing anything of course! ;)

That is the absolute truth. It was 1970 when all of my friends began to tease me constantly about liking Elvis. He was, as they said..."so old." It was totally not-cool to like Elvis as a kid or a teenager at that time. Kids really thought that 35 was ancient.

utmom2008
01-07-2008, 05:47 AM
But remember, the basic details of the Presley-Nixon meeting were kept secret for at least a year, and the photos didn't emerge until many years later.
I can't remember Getlo...when did the pictures come out?? :hmm:

Getlo
01-07-2008, 05:56 AM
I can't remember Getlo...when did the pictures come out?? :hmm:

From:

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2004/winter/top-images.html

"In 1975, the photographs—along with other official records of the Nixon presidency—were transferred to NARA, where they came under the jurisdiction of the Nixon Presidential Materials Staff. In the early 1980s, the photographs were part of a set of materials that were opened for public research."

And here's another excellent site about the meeting:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/nixon-met-elvis/

utmom2008
01-07-2008, 06:14 AM
From:

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2004/winter/top-images.html

"In 1975, the photographs—along with other official records of the Nixon presidency—were transferred to NARA, where they came under the jurisdiction of the Nixon Presidential Materials Staff. In the early 1980s, the photographs were part of a set of materials that were opened for public research."

And here's another excellent site about the meeting:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/nixon-met-elvis/
Thanks! I have been to the 2nd site you posted....in fact, I think I spent about 2 hours on there one afternoon. It was extremely interesting..... Don't you find it interesting that Elvis chose pics of the family to take to Nixon? I think on some strange level that it was an endearing trip for Elvis. I do love the part of the letter where he says "I call it America, and I love it." In a certain way...he was being very patriotic..IMO

Getlo
01-07-2008, 11:14 AM
Don't you find it interesting that Elvis chose pics of the family to take to Nixon?

Hadn't thought about it one way or the other, to be honest. In any case, he didn't take them with him - one of the guys was instructed to bring them.

KPM
01-07-2008, 06:06 PM
Of course not, and it was ridiculous of Nixon and Elvis to have believed that.

Elvis was part of the Establishment by 1970, and was so far removed and unaware of what was really going on with the "young" people and the counter culture that it is rather funny to think that he believed kids would have taken him even remotely seriously.I don't think Elvis' self-belief had anything to do with drugs per se, it's just that he was so out of touch. And had been for many years. While the kids were rockin' with Sgt Pepper, he was spewing out Clambake.

It was incredibly naive of him to believe he had even the slightest effect on most of the kids in 1970. But it's rather endearing as well, and I give him credit for wanting to make a difference - er, not that he ended up ever doing anything of course! ;)

Since he never really tried to have an effect on teens in the 70s, I think its hard to say if he could have if he had tried.
In 68 in my junior high when "If I Can Dream" came out -he was talked about more by many kids- he gained a respect, some bought the single.
Then "In the Ghetto" came out and that respect was strengthened and broadened. He was not the movie star- for a while he was considered current. If he had actually became active in some sort of way to really carry the thoughts in those 2 songs further-I think he perhaps could have had an effect.

Diane
01-07-2008, 08:31 PM
I agree with you KPM. I really believe if Elvis had put out the effort to try and reach the young, he could have made a difference for quite a few....even one life saved which is still possible that he did, would have been worthwhile.

Diane

utmom2008
01-07-2008, 08:41 PM
Hadn't thought about it one way or the other, to be honest. In any case, he didn't take them with him - one of the guys was instructed to bring them.
It still makes me chuckle though to think of Nixon wanting a pic of Lisa and Pris....:lol:

utmom2008
01-07-2008, 08:43 PM
Since he never really tried to have an effect on teens in the 70s, I think its hard to say if he could have if he had tried.
In 68 in my junior high when "If I Can Dream" came out -he was talked about more by many kids- he gained a respect, some bought the single.
Then "In the Ghetto" came out and that respect was strengthened and broadened. He was not the movie star- for a while he was considered current. If he had actually became active in some sort of way to really carry the thoughts in those 2 songs further-I think he perhaps could have had an effect.
That's interesting KPM, as that was certainly not the case with my school and my friends. The only Elvis tune they ever remotely enjoyed was "Burning Love."

KPM
01-07-2008, 08:54 PM
That's interesting KPM, as that was certainly not the case with my school and my friends. The only Elvis tune they ever remotely enjoyed was "Burning Love."
I'll tell you another funny thing about Elvis from junior high. At 4:00 everyday Monday-Friday we had an afternoon movie on a local tv station. One week they had 5 Elvis movies on, one each afternoon. Once again Elvis was a topic in school, they kind of made fun of the movies shown - except "Jailhouse Rock" which everyone seemed to like. I agree that "Burning Love" was the last song that regular teens seemed to identify with from Elvis. I was in my senior year of High School and it was liked pretty well.

cameron
01-07-2008, 08:56 PM
There were a lot of people that liked Elvis when he started the "message songs." Young, middle aged and old. He "hit a note" and our society responded. There was the war, segregation , assasinations etc.
He could have made a difference ....even today.
There are some that still believe in America and see him as a great American.

Jumpsuit Junkie
01-07-2008, 10:48 PM
There are some that still believe in America and see him as a great American.

Couple of things here...

1. The Elvis of 1970 is far removed from the rebellious Elvis from 1957, teenagers from 1970 wouldn't generally link with 30 somethings unless they release a cool song. I don't doubt that some songs would resonate but I seriously doubt that Elvis would have been deemed cool. Elvis crossed the barriers of age and cultures and could of filled arena's three lifetimes over but I think that Elvis was/is unique in that the legend grew bigger than the man and that drew audiences far from their own sphere of interest.

2. Elvis embodied the American dream, in fact I would go as far as to say Elvis personifies the American Dream. Elvis achieved material wealth and Iconic status that people can only dream of. However great an American Elvis may have been his life was punctuated by sadness.

Getlo
01-08-2008, 11:40 AM
Since he never really tried to have an effect on teens in the 70s, I think its hard to say if he could have if he had tried.

It's not hard at all. Elvis was basically irrelevant to the young kids in 69/70.


In 68 in my junior high when "If I Can Dream" came out -he was talked about more by many kids- he gained a respect, some bought the single.

And what sort of kids were these? Your average suburban types - or the hippies, the counter culture where the real cultural development was taking place? Not every kid in 1969 was actually part of the Woodstock generation.


If he had actually became active in some sort of way to really carry the thoughts in those 2 songs further-I think he perhaps could have had an effect.

Only if he had've changed his image completely. Not to mention his music. As great as In The Ghetto was, it was hardly as relevant as anything else of that era. If I Can Dream? Not even close to what was really happening I'm afraid ...

Sorry, but Elvis was part of the right-wing Establishment in 1970. At 35, he was old. He was The Man.

Getlo
01-08-2008, 11:44 AM
There were a lot of people that liked Elvis when he started the "message songs." Young, middle aged and old. He "hit a note" and our society responded.[/I]

It is an exaggeration to say that the whole of "society" responded to Elvis' two message songs.

When the great list of protest/Woodstock era tracks is written, In the Ghetto might scrape in there, but there are hundreds more songs by others that were more relevant at the time.

Getlo
01-08-2008, 11:48 AM
1. The Elvis of 1970 is far removed from the rebellious Elvis from 1957, teenagers from 1970 wouldn't generally link with 30 somethings unless they release a cool song. I don't doubt that some songs would resonate but I seriously doubt that Elvis would have been deemed cool.

Exactly. the 1970 image of Elvis being cool these days owes more than a nod to quite a bit of irony, and a great deal of hindsight. For most of the younger generation in 1970, Elvis didn't even register.


2. Elvis embodied the American dream, in fact I would go as far as to say Elvis personifies the American Dream.

He is the best of the American Dream (which, by the way, is a type of thing that has been hijacked by Americans as a term: better to say, perhaps, Great Success or something, and that type of success is not exclusively American) and he is the worst of it as well.

cameron
01-08-2008, 12:18 PM
It is an exaggeration to say that the whole of "society" responded to Elvis' two message songs.

When the great list of protest/Woodstock era tracks is written, In the Ghetto might scrape in there, but there are hundreds more songs by others that were more relevant at the time.

We've got to stop agreeing on things ; people will talk.;)

It was In The Ghetto and American Trilogy that first made me "pay attention " to Elvis though.
I liked Give Peace a Chance for that time period, actually.

cameron
01-08-2008, 12:24 PM
He is the best of the American Dream (which, by the way, is a type of thing that has been hijacked by Americans as a term: better to say, perhaps, Great Success or something, and that type of success is not exclusively American) and he is the worst of it as well.

I always disagreed with that saying too.
Great success comes from many people/countries; certainly not just America!!
I think we've got a lot of fences that need to be mended before any of us can act so high and mighty .

Jumpsuit Junkie
01-08-2008, 02:03 PM
Exactly. the 1970 image of Elvis being cool these days owes more than a nod to quite a bit of irony, and a great deal of hindsight. For most of the younger generation in 1970, Elvis didn't even register.

Agreed there is a lot of hindsight involved in the Elvis of 1970, if people were polled on what year they thought Elvis was cool my guess would be the vast majority would vote 1950's, whereas the fans would be split and give 1950's and 68-71. We can give that answer because we know he probably peaked at that specific time period and then declined thereafter.


He is the best of the American Dream (which, by the way, is a type of thing that has been hijacked by Americans as a term: better to say, perhaps, Great Success or something, and that type of success is not exclusively American) and he is the worst of it as well.

I agree that American Dream Ideology is not exclusive to America however the phrase is. The American Dream is IMO a westernised view of success with fame and wealth associated with it. I wouldn't go along with Elvis being the 'worst' that seems to imply something sinister. I would suggest that he was a victim (as are many) of the American Dream. One of the People who 'could' be considered the worst IMO is Michael Jackson. MJ's decline is more spectacular than that of Elvis by tenfold. Even if MJ is innocent of any charges brought against him, the stigma and lifestyle he leads is almost certainly the opposite of the American Dream...... or is it :hmm:

Getlo
01-08-2008, 03:40 PM
I wouldn't go along with Elvis being the 'worst' that seems to imply something sinister. I would suggest that he was a victim (as are many) of the American Dream.

There was something sinister: drugs, and the fact that no one ever really said 'no' to him.

Best of the American Dream: the King of Rock'n'Roll sweeping the world, changing the face of music etc.

The worst: the downfall, the shambolic mess he became (for too many reasons, both external and from his own doing that we don't need to go into - again - on this thread) and the absolute tragedy of his downfall.

"He had it all, right in the palm of his hand, man ...", or whatever phrase was used at the MM press conference.

Tony Trout
01-08-2008, 04:06 PM
There was something sinister: drugs, and the fact that no one ever really said 'no' to him.

Best of the American Dream: the King of Rock'n'Roll sweeping the world, changing the face of music etc.

The worst: the downfall, the shambolic mess he became (for too many reasons, both external and from his own doing that we don't need to go into - again - on this thread) and the absolute tragedy of his downfall.

"He had it all, right in the palm of his hand, man ...", or whatever phrase was used at the MM press conference.


The phrase was: "He had it all right in the palm of his hand...and the drugs took it away from him!"

cameron
01-08-2008, 04:12 PM
There was something sinister: drugs, and the fact that no one ever really said 'no' to him.

Best of the American Dream: the King of Rock'n'Roll sweeping the world, changing the face of music etc.

The worst: the downfall, the shambolic mess he became (for too many reasons, both external and from his own doing that we don't need to go into - again - on this thread) and the absolute tragedy of his downfall.

"He had it all, right in the palm of his hand, man ...", or whatever phrase was used at the MM press conference.

Can we just let him have this day ..?

Joe Car
01-08-2008, 05:14 PM
Can we just let him have this day ..?

I agree, lighten up gang!

utmom2008
01-08-2008, 05:29 PM
When the great list of protest/Woodstock era tracks is written, In the Ghetto might scrape in there, but there are hundreds more songs by others that were more relevant at the time.

That is so true. The late 60's and early 70's were chock full of outstanding songs....many of them being protest songs against the Vietnam war. In 1970 I attended a private girl's school, so these kids were not the "hippie" type. They were the so-called "good girls" so to speak. And....it was 1970 when I was teased endlessly about having a crush on an ancient 35 year old man...:blush:

utmom2008
01-08-2008, 05:30 PM
I liked Give Peace a Chance for that time period, actually.

Me too....I still have the 45. :D

utmom2008
01-08-2008, 05:33 PM
One of the People who 'could' be considered the worst IMO is Michael Jackson. MJ's decline is more spectacular than that of Elvis by tenfold. Even if MJ is innocent of any charges brought against him, the stigma and lifestyle he leads is almost certainly the opposite of the American Dream...... or is it :hmm:

Do we Americans have to "claim" him??;););)

utmom2008
01-08-2008, 05:34 PM
"He had it all, right in the palm of his hand, man ...", or whatever phrase was used at the MM press conference.

"And the drugs took it away"..........Isn't that how that sentence ends??;)

Jumpsuit Junkie
01-08-2008, 05:45 PM
There was something sinister: drugs, and the fact that no one ever really said 'no' to him.

I wouldn't call someone taking prescribed drugs, whether it was street equivalent or not sinister! Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix and John Belushi the drugs they were using were what I would call sinister. I realise the effect is the same but Elvis just wasn't in that class of Junkie (n)

As for nobody saying no, well the whole of Hollywood suffers from this sinister affliction ;)

4THEHEART
01-08-2008, 05:48 PM
Cameron ,just want to thank you for asking a little respect for this prescious person.Seems not many care..wish we all could have learned more from Elvis about respect and love for even total strangers,which he was the best example for these two..isn't this enough or more important than the brands and the dosages of the pills he took.We shouldn't go that far on anyone's private life as we do with Elvis's,cause we don't know a s... about,what "he really had in the palm of his hand or hadn't"..

utmom2008
01-08-2008, 05:51 PM
I realise the effect is the same but Elvis just wasn't in that class of Junkie.(n)

Rehab centers will tell you "a junkie is a junkie"..the only thing that seperates them is the drug of choice. I totally understand your point, totally. But, addiction centers would NOT agree.:blush::blink:

cameron
01-08-2008, 06:16 PM
Cameron ,just want to thank you for asking a little respect for this prescious person.Seems not many care..wish we all could have learned more from Elvis about respect and love for even total strangers,which he was the best example for these two..isn't this enough or more important than the brands and the dosages of the pills he took.We shouldn't go that far on anyone's private life as we do with Elvis's,cause we don't know a s... about,what "he really had in the palm of his hand or hadn't"..

Yeah...Happy Birthday, Elvis.:'(

4THEHEART
01-08-2008, 06:25 PM
Smile dear Cameron..here's to you Elvis!:cheers: Happy Birthday..:happybday the best example for all the coming generations,may all will have a huge heart like his,that's all it matters..

cameron
01-08-2008, 06:32 PM
Smile dear Cameron..here's to you Elvis!:cheers: Happy Birthday..:happybday the best example for all the coming generations,may all will have a huge heart like his,that's all it matters..

Amen and amen. :cheers::cheers::happybday ;);)

Diane
01-08-2008, 07:31 PM
I have to agree with Matt about qualifying Elvis' addiction as sinister compared to other artists later on that were on street drugs. The main point being that Elvis did not know until it was too late...if ever....that prescription drugs could be harmful. The other artist bought street drugs knowing full well what they were doing.

Diane

KPM
01-08-2008, 07:39 PM
It's not hard at all. Elvis was basically irrelevant to the young kids in 69/70.



And what sort of kids were these? Your average suburban types - or the hippies, the counter culture where the real cultural development was taking place? Not every kid in 1969 was actually part of the Woodstock generation.



Only if he had've changed his image completely. Not to mention his music. As great as In The Ghetto was, it was hardly as relevant as anything else of that era. If I Can Dream? Not even close to what was really happening I'm afraid ...

Sorry, but Elvis was part of the right-wing Establishment in 1970. At 35, he was old. He was The Man.[/I]
I don't think I disagreed with what you are saying- but I was a teenager during those years and I know what the hippies and the suburban types as you called them were into. I had friends who were both-I protested the Vietnam war on our High School campus in 71 so I had friends of all types. These people were not nearly as "stereo typical as you are making them out with the labels you used. You talk about what was really happening in 1970-I was there in the middle of it so I know what was happening here in the middle of America I lived it. But the point I was making was not "was he relevant then"- it was could he have been if he had tried. From what I know of the times, I can say I think he could have been if he had got involved. From the people I associated with-I feel he was not totally "shut out of the equation" IMO he had a window of opportunity where he could have been very relevant-if he had tried. From your posts I gathered you did not feel he could have been no matter what he did.
Some judge what happened in America in the 60s and 70s by the coasts-New York and LA. There is a lot of country between those points and the thinking in the middle of America-"the heart of America" is different even today than the coasts.

As you have pointed out there is no right or wrong answer to many topic-IMO this is one of subjective opinion based on what you have seen and know.

cameron
01-08-2008, 07:45 PM
Rehab centers will tell you "a junkie is a junkie"..the only thing that seperates them is the drug of choice. I totally understand your point, totally. But, addiction centers would NOT agree.:blush::blink:

You must have been in the wrong rehab center .

Joe Car
01-08-2008, 08:06 PM
You must have been in the wrong rehab center .

Geeze, the thought of calling Betty Ford a junkie, doesn't quite seem appropiate!

utmom2008
01-08-2008, 08:22 PM
The main point being that Elvis did not know until it was too late...if ever....that prescription drugs could be harmful.

But....don't you think that those 3 major overdoses should have sent off some kind of warning bell???

utmom2008
01-08-2008, 08:25 PM
You must have been in the wrong rehab center .
I wasn't Cameron, but my mother-n-law was..on 2 seperate occassions. She was at the 2 that at the time were considered the best in the state of Texas. But...I forgot, you already told us awhile back that those trained professionals didn't know what they were doing...:lol::lol: ;);)

KPM
01-08-2008, 08:30 PM
But....don't you think that those 3 major overdoses should have sent off some kind of warning bell???
You would think for the average person that would have been enough warning-but he was not the average person. I have always thought he just did not see the harm-nomatter how much evidence piled up.

cameron
01-08-2008, 08:45 PM
I wasn't Cameron, but my mother-n-law was..on 2 seperate occassions. She was at the 2 that at the time were considered the best in the state of Texas. But...I forgot, you already told us awhile back that those trained professionals didn't know what they were doing...:lol::lol: ;);)
Yes, I did. Different opinions on ways to treat people.;) :respect:

utmom2008
01-08-2008, 08:48 PM
What way would you treat people with prescription addictions? She had a whole team of MD's, so I would love to hear how they went wrong....in your opinion, of course. ;);)

cameron
01-08-2008, 08:54 PM
What way would you treat people with prescription addictions? She had a whole team of MD's, so I would love to hear how they went wrong....in your opinion, of course. ;);)

I don't treat people on a forum; as you've said before .

This is Elvis' day....I'm celebrating him. I guess we can all do what we like.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, ELVIS !!! :partytime:

thedoc
01-08-2008, 10:15 PM
Zeysky! Cameron!
may I join this celebration..Happy Birthday Elvis!!! :)

Raised on Rock
01-09-2008, 06:32 AM
[/I]
I don't think I disagreed with what you are saying- but I was a teenager during those years and I know what the hippies and the suburban types as you called them were into. I had friends who were both-I protested the Vietnam war on our High School campus in 71 so I had friends of all types. These people were not nearly as "stereo typical as you are making them out with the labels you used. You talk about what was really happening in 1970-I was there in the middle of it so I know what was happening here in the middle of America I lived it. But the point I was making was not "was he relevant then"- it was could he have been if he had tried. From what I know of the times, I can say I think he could have been if he had got involved. From the people I associated with-I feel he was not totally "shut out of the equation" IMO he had a window of opportunity where he could have been very relevant-if he had tried. From your posts I gathered you did not feel he could have been no matter what he did.
Some judge what happened in America in the 60s and 70s by the coasts-New York and LA. There is a lot of country between those points and the thinking in the middle of America-"the heart of America" is different even today than the coasts.

As you have pointed out there is no right or wrong answer to many topic-IMO this is one of subjective opinion based on what you have seen and know.

I think you totally got a point here, yes, I do agree with Getlo when he said Elvis was no relevant at all to the Woodstock generation, but still, people like Lennon or Dylan people that where crusial in the music field for the W. generation, well we all know how they felt about Elvis, an so was like that, Presley he was still remebered for his reputation in the 50's, if he now was away of his rebelious image, well he was, but as much as he might be away, he was still the legend, and Im sure he had only needed to walk into the W.G. direction, and he easly have got that audience at his feet. Course never did, not necesarly wrong that he never did, although many of his fans would have liked that, and he surely would have won millions of new ones.

Getlo
01-09-2008, 11:53 AM
I wouldn't call someone taking prescribed drugs, whether it was street equivalent or not sinister!

It makes no difference whether Elvis was taking quaaludes etc or injecting smack directly into his veins.

The end - the genuine tragedy of what a mess he became - was the sinister result.

Getlo
01-09-2008, 11:56 AM
cause we don't know a s... about,what "he really had in the palm of his hand or hadn't"..

Speak for yourself.

It is obvious what he had in the "palm of his hand": he was The King, and life was good.

He had it all, and blew it - partly through his own stupidity, and partly because of some of the people around him.

Countdown
01-09-2008, 12:13 PM
Speak for yourself.

It is obvious what he had in the "palm of his hand": he was The King, and life was good.

He had it all, and blew it - partly through his own stupidity, and partly because of some of the people around him.


Actually, yuo are right. Sometimes things in life are like that, you don't know what you have until you lose it. But it's too late now.

Jumpsuit Junkie
01-09-2008, 12:15 PM
It makes no difference whether Elvis was taking quaaludes etc or injecting smack directly into his veins.

The end - the genuine tragedy of what a mess he became - was the sinister result.

So... Just to clarify, Elvis was no better than a smack head :blink:

Getlo
01-09-2008, 12:24 PM
So... Just to clarify, Elvis was no better than a smack head :blink:

"No better than a smackhead" implies that you believe smackheads are beneath you ... or other types of drug addicts?

It doesn't matter what drug someone is addicted to: if they are addicted to drugs, they are therefore a drug addict.

Another term for drug addict is "junkie". And yes, Elvis was a junkie. But there are so many types and degrees of addiction, that the term "junkie" covers an enormous range of people and drug types.

Elvis, a singer, was a junkie. So was Hendrix. Oscar Wilde. The fictional Sherlock Holmes. The housewife next door who likes to pop pills when hubbie's at work. The smack addict who breaks into houses to steal to support his habit.

Different degrees and manifestations of the same problem.

And as I have said before, I do not see Elvis' drug addiction or his weight as negatives. These factors aren't positives either. They are just what they are: aspects of Elvis' life that - like everything else - should be discussed rationally and dispassionately.

cameron
01-09-2008, 01:03 PM
"No better than a smackhead" implies that you believe smackheads are beneath you ... or other types of drug addicts?

It doesn't matter what drug someone is addicted to: if they are addicted to drugs, they are therefore a drug addict.

Another term for drug addict is "junkie". And yes, Elvis was a junkie. But there are so many types and degrees of addiction, that the term "junkie" covers an enormous range of people and drug types.

Elvis, a singer, was a junkie. So was Hendrix. Oscar Wilde. The fictional Sherlock Holmes. The housewife next door who likes to pop pills when hubbie's at work. The smack addict who breaks into houses to steal to support his habit.

Different degrees and manifestations of the same problem.

And as I have said before, I do not see Elvis' drug addiction or his weight as negatives. These factors aren't positives either. They are just what they are: aspects of Elvis' life that - like everything else - should be discussed rationally and dispassionately.

There certaintly are "many types of addiction".
I'm sure you made the right choice by not becoming a doctor.;)

Jumpsuit Junkie
01-09-2008, 01:09 PM
"No better than a smackhead" implies that you believe smackheads are beneath you ... or other types of drug addicts?

It doesn't matter what drug someone is addicted to: if they are addicted to drugs, they are therefore a drug addict.

Another term for drug addict is "junkie". And yes, Elvis was a junkie. But there are so many types and degrees of addiction, that the term "junkie" covers an enormous range of people and drug types.

Elvis, a singer, was a junkie. So was Hendrix. Oscar Wilde. The fictional Sherlock Holmes. The housewife next door who likes to pop pills when hubbie's at work. The smack addict who breaks into houses to steal to support his habit.

Different degrees and manifestations of the same problem.

And as I have said before, I do not see Elvis' drug addiction or his weight as negatives. These factors aren't positives either. They are just what they are: aspects of Elvis' life that - like everything else - should be discussed rationally and dispassionately.

I can sympathise with someone who has an addiction, I show tolerance to those who cannot help themselves through no fault of there own. However I certainly do not condone people who steal, murder or threaten others to support their habit. Further I find it hard although not impossible to sympathise with hard core drug addicts when their lifestyle choice impinges on mine!

I do not feel superior to drug addicts, but lucky, as a young adult I participated in various recreational drugs through those around me. I count myself lucky to have been strong enough to resist the temptations that others have succumb to.

Where we differ is the category of addict that Elvis was. I will not dispute the fact that Elvis was a junkie and that the drugs he procured are equivalent to or higher quality than those sold on the street. I also agree that the same behaviours are displayed and the inevitable outcome is all to often the same.

As have you have pointed out there are different degrees and manifestations of the same problem, I wouldn't necessarily call a heroin addict a 'Smack Head'. 'Smack Head' IMO is the lower end of the scale of drug abusers, the connotations that are derived from this term are not pleasant and IMO cannot therefore be used in conjunction with describing Elvis' habit. I see a huge difference in how a drug user is described, whether it be semantics or not, the implications are vastly different. You cannot tar everyone with the same brush.

Getlo
01-09-2008, 01:28 PM
Where we differ is the category of addict that Elvis was.

No, I don't think we would, eventually.


I see a huge difference in how a drug user is described, whether it be semantics or not, the implications are vastly different. You cannot tar everyone with the same brush.

A person who is addicted to drugs is a drug addict. Yes, the implications for the various types of addict - and their actions - may be different.

But Elvis was no different to any other drug addict in that a) he had a drug problem; b) he needed help and c) he continually refused that help.

If Elvis - or anyone else - was ever to go into rehab, the first thing that should have to be acknowledged was: this person is a drug addict. From there, different forms of help would have been offered.

cameron
01-09-2008, 01:34 PM
If Elvis - or anyone else - was ever to go into rehab, the first thing that should have to be acknowledged was: this person is a drug addict. From there, different forms of help would have been offered.

I disagree to an extent. The first thing one must acknowledge is this is a human being that wants and needs help. Why and how did this occur and what can "we" as a team do to help them to get better. IMO.

Getlo
01-09-2008, 01:34 PM
There certaintly are "many types of addiction".
I'm sure you made the right choice by not becoming a doctor.;)

I'll bet you're one of those "touchy-feely" types who extends every bit of tea and sympathy to any type of addict who walks through the door.

The first thing any addict needs - once they admit they have a problem, of course - is a swift does of reality. Rehab and addiction treatment should be hard work, almost bordering on torture (as it were) so addicts never want to go back. And with the right treatment, they should never want to take drugs again either - at least not to the point of abuse anyway.

But some of these celebrity rehab centres ... tennis courts, swimming pools etc. Gimme a break.

If Elvis had've made it into rehab and I was in charge ... the first thing I would've had him do is clean the toilets, mop up the floors and shut the hell up. I would've kicked his a-s-s, then eventually sent him on his way. Cured.

Society is way to soft on people with addiction problems. Instead of wasting time talking about feelings, mother issues etc, the first thing that should be done is to cure the actual addiction.

Getlo
01-09-2008, 01:37 PM
The first thing one must acknowledge is this is a human being that wants and needs help.

Hmmm ... and then we can sit around and acknowledge that the sky is blue.

Everyone is a human being. Touchy-feely philosophies like this remove the real responsibility on the part of the addict to clean themselves up, once they admit they need help.

Once they're in rehab ... get tough, kick some a-s-s ... and get on with the rest of it later.

SeeSeeRider777
01-09-2008, 01:38 PM
Getlo is right as bad as it is to say Elvis was a junkie. Also in his mind he was not doing anything wrong because it was prescribed. He had everything and I mean everything (looks, fame, money, talent, all the women he wanted) and he blew it. Elvis had the world in his hand and he failed to realize it and he sadly died because of the drug abuse. What a great talent that went to waste. He could have done so much more. Elvis is mostly to blame because he did not want to get off the stuff but also the people around him did nothing but just take the money. Vernon should have stepped in. If I was him I would have thrown Dr. Nick out and get a new set of nurses and doctors to detox him in the house and if he did not want to do that, then I would have gone to the press and told the whole world what he was doing. Vernon was too busy counting the money instead of worrying about his son. The drugs is just part of Elvis' life and we are here to discuss/debate it, all of us have different views on it.

cameron
01-09-2008, 01:39 PM
I'll bet you're one of those "touchy-feely" types who extends every bit of tea and sympathy to any type of addict who walks through the door.

The first thing any addict needs - once they admit they have a problem, of course - is a swift does of reality. Rehab and addiction treatment should be hard work, almost bordering on torture (as it were) so addicts never want to go back. And with the right treatment, they should never want to take drugs again either - at least not to the point of abuse anyway.

But some of these celebrity rehab centres ... tennis courts, swimming pools etc. Gimme a break.

If Elvis had've made it into rehab and I was in charge ... the first thing I would've had him do is clean the toilets, mop up the floors and shut the hell up. I would've kicked his a-s-s, then eventually sent him on his way. Cured.
Society is way to soft on people with addiction problems. Instead of wasting time talking about feelings, mother issues etc, the first thing that should be done is to cure the actual addiction.

Yes, I am.
No, not cured "your way", only realizes they better not return or expect any help or understanding from that facillity .

Getlo
01-09-2008, 01:49 PM
Yes, I am.
No, not cured "your way", only realizes they better not return or expect any help or understanding from that facillity .

And it's touchy-feely "let's talk about our feelings, sweetie" people who are ruining this planet.

Proper rehab should be tough, where people walk out cured first off. Or maybe at the second attempt.

"Help" and "understanding" only goes so far. People who find themselves in messes like drug addiction need to be held responsible for their actions.

But, no. "Society" is to blame. "My mother didn't love me" etc etc, ad infinitum. Ugh! :mad:

cameron
01-09-2008, 01:57 PM
And it's touchy-feely "let's talk about our feelings, sweetie" people who are ruining this planet.

Proper rehab should be tough, where people walk out cured first off. Or maybe at the second attempt.

"Help" and "understanding" only goes so far. People who find themselves in messes like drug addiction need to be held responsible for their actions.

But, no. "Society" is to blame. "My mother didn't love me" etc etc, ad infinitum. Ugh! :mad:

I didn't say any of that .Rehab is tough, no matter which way you choose to go. It is not instant for anyone.
Blame lies within us all. That's a given and sooner or later has to be acknowledged by all parties.

Getlo
01-09-2008, 02:15 PM
Blame lies within us all.

No, that's the point. It doesn't.

I am not to blame if someone beccomes addicted to drugs. My community isn't either, nor my society. Addicts make the choice to continue to take drugs ... no one forces them. No one.

It is the addict first and foremost who must take responsibility in the first instance. Only from that point is a cure even remotely possible.

Yes, there are many ills in society and all that ... but people must be held accountable for the lifestyle choices if they make it into rehab.

cameron
01-09-2008, 02:21 PM
No, that's the point. It doesn't.

I am not to blame if someone beccomes addicted to drugs. My community isn't either, nor my society. Addicts make the choice to continue to take drugs ... no one forces them. No one.

It is the addict first and foremost who must take responsibility in the first instance. Only from that point is a cure even remotely possible.

Yes, there are many ills in society and all that ... but people must be held accountable for the lifestyle choices if they make it into rehab.

All that comes "with time" and I agree that eventually they must become "bigger" than anything or anyone they might blame.

I bet women just "love" you ...:P

Getlo
01-09-2008, 02:29 PM
All that comes "with time"

Another problem ... it shouldn't have to take time. The first problem is the addiction. None of the other crap matters at first.

Britney Spears is today's perfect example. All this time and money wasted. She should be locked up for a year against her will to get her the help she needs.

The same thing should have happened with Elvis, but alas, it didn't.


I bet women just "love" you ...:P

Not sure ... do you? ;)

cameron
01-09-2008, 02:38 PM
Another problem ... it shouldn't have to take time. The first problem is the addiction. None of the other crap matters at first.

Britney Spears is today's perfect example. All this time and money wasted. She should be locked up for a year against her will to get her the help she needs.

The same thing should have happened with Elvis, but alas, it didn't.



Not sure ... do you? ;)

Sorry, people don't get into trouble "overnight ". It can become a long process . I don't even try to keep up with Britney. IMO, the "press" needs to leave her alone !!

Well, if I was made "that way", you'd be a "challange to change".
I know you'd like that.;) But, I'd think any would grow tired of the OCD.

utmom2008
01-09-2008, 04:17 PM
what [/I]drug someone is addicted to: if they are addicted to drugs, they are therefore a drug addict.

Another term for drug addict is "junkie". And yes, Elvis was a junkie. But there are so many types and degrees of addiction, that the term "junkie" covers an enormous range of people and drug types.

Elvis, a singer, was a junkie.

I tried saying the very same thing yesterday, and many other times and I seem to get hammered every time. The frustration makes me want to go out and get "hammered". ;):lol:

KPM
01-09-2008, 08:37 PM
No, that's the point. It doesn't.

I am not to blame if someone beccomes addicted to drugs. My community isn't either, nor my society. Addicts make the choice to continue to take drugs ... no one forces them. No one.

It is the addict first and foremost who must take responsibility in the first instance. Only from that point is a cure even remotely possible.

Yes, there are many ills in society and all that ... but people must be held accountable for the lifestyle choices if they make it into rehab.
Getlo I assume you do not believe that genetics, and your upbringing have anything at all to do with the person each of us becomes-but I do. I feel to say addicts (including Elvis) just decide to become hooked and stay hooked because they want to is unfair. I will not go through all the things which have been proven to have "genetic roots" again. But I will say it is very possible that, like alcohol, there is a genetic link which is present in people at birth who are easily addicted. I look forward to the day when this will be proven- as have many other connections between genes and mental or physical illness. If it is in your genes-you can not pluck it out (at least as of this date) and say "well took care of that"
In addition, not everyone is as mentally strong as some for a variety of reasons. Once again no one intentionally decides, I will let stress and life overcome me. I assume you must be a very strong person mentally-for you seem to not have any problems like this. I am happy you do not. I am happy you have the strength to say-not me. Not everyone is as lucky. Not everyone can just get up off the canvas-without help- every single time they get knocked down. From my life I know of what I speak, on genetics, depression, and addictions. You have your point of view and I have mine.

Joe Car
01-09-2008, 09:00 PM
Personally, I think this thread should be shutdown. For people who weren't around, or are not old enough to remember the seventies, then you shouldn't comment on what Elvis should have, or shouldn't have done, because you don't have a clue of how things were back then. The fact that Elvis is now being termed a "junkie" by "fans" makes me sick. It's a low class thing to call any human being, let alone Elvis, especially since we all know how the word "junkie" is perceived. As an Elvis fan, I'm embarassed that this thread has sunk this low, and that he's thought of that way by any of his so-called fan base.

SeeSeeRider777
01-09-2008, 09:07 PM
JoeCar- What do you call a man who abuses drugs? Two things a drug abuser and the slang word "junkie". As terrible as it is to say because Elvis is my favorite of all time, Elvis was a junkie. If you dont call Elvis a junkie, what do you call him?

Joe Car
01-09-2008, 09:30 PM
JoeCar- What do you call a man who abuses drugs? Two things a drug abuser and the slang word "junkie". As terrible as it is to say because Elvis is my favorite of all time, Elvis was a junkie. If you dont call Elvis a junkie, what do you call him?

I don't have to call him anything, he had an illness.

4THEHEART
01-09-2008, 09:40 PM
Oh! c'mon Utmom please..it wasn't me who called Elvis, "King" and thinks that he had everything,it was Getlo..

KPM
01-09-2008, 09:48 PM
I'll bet you're one of those "touchy-feely" types who extends every bit of tea and sympathy to any type of addict who walks through the door.

The first thing any addict needs - once they admit they have a problem, of course - is a swift does of reality. Rehab and addiction treatment should be hard work, almost bordering on torture (as it were) so addicts never want to go back. And with the right treatment, they should never want to take drugs again either - at least not to the point of abuse anyway.

But some of these celebrity rehab centres ... tennis courts, swimming pools etc. Gimme a break.

If Elvis had've made it into rehab and I was in charge ... the first thing I would've had him do is clean the toilets, mop up the floors and shut the hell up. I would've kicked his a-s-s, then eventually sent him on his way. Cured.
Society is way to soft on people with addiction problems. Instead of wasting time talking about feelings, mother issues etc, the first thing that should be done is to cure the actual addiction.
Or to commit suicide. Some people respond to that type treatment and that would be the right approach-and for some people that would be the wrong approach and would do more harm than good. That is why each individual is screened, tested, and investigated to find out what type therapy will help them - the right way.... IMO one size does not fit all -no matter how much you try to force it to.

jak
01-09-2008, 11:20 PM
The word "junkie" is certainly a word that I wish was never associated with Elvis.Having said that,there is no way you can dance around it.After all these years we should be able to just tell it like it was.It's just hard for people to accept that someone that special could have had that problem.I know the fans look at him with caring eyes,but how can you still be in denial after 30 years?
Jak

utmom2008
01-09-2008, 11:26 PM
Oh! c'mon Utmom please..it wasn't me who called Elvis, "King" and thinks that he had everything,it was Getlo..

:lol::lol: It sounds funny the way you worded it! When the phrase, "the King" is said I think of Elvis. When the phrase, "a King" is used it sounds like royalty!:P

Diane
01-09-2008, 11:36 PM
No one should be in denial that Elvis had an addiction problem as it was a fact of his life but the word "junkie" doesn't have to be used either....no need to use trashy words that are put-downs - for anyone. Why can't a person just say "he was addicted to prescription drugs"?

Diane

4THEHEART
01-09-2008, 11:45 PM
Utmom !:lol: that's a good one! anger makes me crosseyed sometimes..:lol:

4THEHEART
01-09-2008, 11:49 PM
no not you..;)

utmom2008
01-09-2008, 11:52 PM
no not you..;)
:lol: OK...I understand now after re-reading it. (y)

Getlo
01-10-2008, 11:49 AM
Posted by Getlo:"Rehab and addiction treatment should be hard work, almost bordering on torture "

well,in dark ages they beat the mentally ill people to rehab them..how sad there's no improvement in some minds.

You really just don't get it ...

Getlo
01-10-2008, 12:06 PM
The word "junkie" is certainly a word that I wish was never associated with Elvis.

I actually agree with you.

I personally don't use the word junkie - I use the term "drug addict".

And since "junkie" is a common slang term for a drug addict, the same term may be applied to Elvis.

Unfortunately, some on here only believe the word "junkie" automatically means heroin addict, a thief, someone who robs people on the street etc. Elvis was clearly not that type of junkie.

Remember, even the lovely housewife addicted to sleeping pills is also a junkie.

Getlo
01-10-2008, 12:18 PM
Getlo I assume you do not believe that genetics, and your upbringing have anything at all to do with the person each of us becomes

To an extent I do, yes. But I do not believe there is a specific gene or set of genes for addiction. To take drugs is a choice people make.


I assume you must be a very strong person mentally-for you seem to not have any problems like this.

It is not a matter of mental strength; it is about choice. Without going into extended details, I have tried (that is to say, I made the choice to try) every illegal drug during my twenties. And I enjoyed every single experience on every last one of 'em, too! (Don't try this at home, kids! ;))

Some I tried a few times, some just once. But there was never a fear of becoming addicted to any of them. And I didn't.


Not everyone is as lucky.

Again, it's not about luck.

Jumpsuit Junkie
01-10-2008, 12:34 PM
I'm sorry but this thread was initially about "Elvis Presley meeting with Richard Nixon a Joke? " I realise that threads can and do weave in and about a subject matter but this thread has turned into a slanging match (n)

Please do not take this to another thread