In concert: who decided which jumpsuit to wear?

[emsteph]

This might be a tough question to answer.

I'm wondering who decided which jumpsuit Elvis was to wear on stage for each show?

Would it be Elvis, or someone else?

[0349054]

Elvis decided.

[Elvisgirl]

did he also decide what they should look like

[Polk-Salad-Annie]

I think that Elvis also decide what they should look like.:)
He had an idea and the designer Bill Belew made them.

[Leroy]

I think it's about time to bust a myth here. First of all it's hard to determine exactly who decided what jumpsuit Elvis would wear that night. Elvis had a strong opinion in a lot of things but he was not the person to use any force to get his opinion across.
Before a show Elvis always had to deal with a lot of stress and there were a lot of things on his mind. One of the most important reasons for having so much people around him is to relieve him from anything that has not directly to do with giving a show. Although his wardrobe is an important factor. There were a few people responsible for his wardrobe. Al Strada, Dean Nichopoulos and Ricky Stanley. They would take out a suit from the rack and lay it before Elvis. Maybe in some cases Elvis would dissagree but most of the times Elvis would agree.

Now for the jumpsuit ideas. A lot of people believe the stories about Elvis having strong opinions about his wardrobe. That was not the case. Elvis handed himself completely over to the designers. I'm mentioning "disigners" because there was not only one as the myth tells you over and over.
From 1968 until somewhere in 1971 Bill Belew was the top designer for Elvis. He was the man who invented the jumpsuit and he deserves credit for it. But as time goes by he received so many requests from other artists in the business he could not find time to design for Elvis exclusively. At this period a young New York designer named Gene Doucette was already working on Elvis' suits. He had some strong ideas about the patterns on the suits and talked about it with Bill, who gave him an opportunity to do some designs. From that time on Gene kinda took over. All jumpsuits from the November tour of 1971 until the very last jumpsuit in 1976 were designed by Gene Doucette.
The only time Elvis was very admitted to the design of a jumpsuit was in late 1972 when they were to design a suit for the upcoming Aloha special
Only this time Elvis was very strong in expressing what he wanted and why.

[0349054]

Hey Leroy, you are right suits were left out for Elvis, but as you rightly said it was Elvis who decided which one he would wear.

[Albert]

Was it Elvis' decision to switch to two-part suits in 1975? And switch back to 1-piece jumpsuits?

Who did order the jumpsuits? Was it on Elvis' wish to order a new one? If so (or if not), why did he wear the mexican sundial suit for such a long time in 1977?

[memphis 77]

i do agree with you leroy about the suits being laid out , but i recall AL STRADA saying in "87 at TOD SLAUGHTERS convention that since 75 he would be the one to help E.P. decide and that ELVIS would rarely argue with him except when it came to the FLAME SUIT, E.P. hated it, AL recalled that ELVIS grabbed it from off the bed and threw across the room, maybe TOD if your out there you can comment.

[memphis 77]

if anyone out there has candid photos from dayton 76 i sure would l;ike to buy , if you have negs or contact sheets, i will pay top dollar for them, just send me a pm, thanks.

[diamond]

I think it's about time to bust a myth here. First of all it's hard to determine exactly who decided what jumpsuit Elvis would wear that night. Elvis had a strong opinion in a lot of things but he was not the person to use any force to get his opinion across.
Before a show Elvis always had to deal with a lot of stress and there were a lot of things on his mind. One of the most important reasons for having so much people around him is to relieve him from anything that has not directly to do with giving a show. Although his wardrobe is an important factor. There were a few people responsible for his wardrobe. Al Strada, Dean Nichopoulos and Ricky Stanley. They would take out a suit from the rack and lay it before Elvis. Maybe in some cases Elvis would dissagree but most of the times Elvis would agree.

Now for the jumpsuit ideas. A lot of people believe the stories about Elvis having strong opinions about his wardrobe. That was not the case. Elvis handed himself completely over to the designers. I'm mentioning "disigners" because there was not only one as the myth tells you over and over.
From 1968 until somewhere in 1971 Bill Belew was the top designer for Elvis. He was the man who invented the jumpsuit and he deserves credit for it. But as time goes by he received so many requests from other artists in the business he could not find time to design for Elvis exclusively. At this period a young New York designer named Gene Doucette was already working on Elvis' suits. He had some strong ideas about the patterns on the suits and talked about it with Bill, who gave him an opportunity to do some designs. From that time on Gene kinda took over. All jumpsuits from the November tour of 1971 until the very last jumpsuit in 1976 were designed by Gene Doucette.
The only time Elvis was very admitted to the design of a jumpsuit was in late 1972 when they were to design a suit for the upcoming Aloha special
Only this time Elvis was very strong in expressing what he wanted and why.




Fantastic information, Thank You Leroy:clap:

[Jungleroom76]

Who did order the jumpsuits? Was it on Elvis' wish to order a new one? If so (or if not), why did he wear the mexican sundial suit for such a long time in 1977?

If my memory serves, Bill Belew said in an interview that he was in the process of creating a new blue jumpsuit for Elvis' August '77 tour...and supposedly there was one in the works for the planned New Year's Eve '77/'78 show at the Kingdome in Seattle that would shoot laser beams out of the suit when Elvis touched certain rhinestones on the suit. :hmm:

As for why Elvis wore the Sundial suit almost exclusively in 1977, the main reason that has been given over all of these years was that Elvis had gained so much weight, it was really the only jumpsuit that still fit him fairly well.

TCB!
Mike

[Leroy]

The problem with many men that once surrounded Elvis is that each year their story changes. And in all their stories is just one bottom line: "I was important to Elvis!".

I do not believe the story about the "Flame Suit". He didn't like it. That's true. But he was also aware many fans might like it so he wore it several times. He also did't want to hurt the designer so he at least tried it.

Most of the times when he didn't like a certain suit he would wear it just once, mostly in Vegas, or not at all.

[memphis 77]

i agree that elvis asociates do always contridict themselves, lord knows that ESPOSITO, and KLIEN have done this numerous times not to mention the STANLEYS, which many of these guys were loaded half the time , don't know what they ate the night before let alone what they saw heard happened thirty years ago, but im found strada sincere.

[Leroy]

If my memory serves, Bill Belew said in an interview that he was in the process of creating a new blue jumpsuit for Elvis' August '77 tour...and supposedly there was one in the works for the planned New Year's Eve '77/'78 show at the Kingdome in Seattle that would shoot laser beams out of the suit when Elvis touched certain rhinestones on the suit. :hmm:

As for why Elvis wore the Sundial suit almost exclusively in 1977, the main reason that has been given over all of these years was that Elvis had gained so much weight, it was really the only jumpsuit that still fit him fairly well.

TCB!
Mike


It is not true that the "Mexican Sundial" was the only suit that still fitted. During the June tour of 1977 he was less heavy than in 1976. There were numerous jumpsuits that would have fitted him. Especially because most suits after 1974 were designed to let out if Elvis would gain weight. Remember that at the beginning of the last tour Elvis wore the 1974 "Arabian". Other suits he could have worn were the 1975 "Chief", the 1975 "V-neck", the 1974 "Blue Swirl".......

But I strongly believe the reason for wearing the "Mexican Sundial" over and over again was because he was saying goodbye. If you examine the Aztec Calender stone on the front and back of the suit it says 16-8 all over.

The rumour about the so-called "Laser Suit" is what it says; just a rumour. Kept alive by Bill because the fans like to hear it, it's just good entertaining at Elvis meetings.
It was meant as a suit covered with mirrors that would catch the stage lights and create the effect of lasers beams. In fact the technigue was not available in 1977 to create a laser suit.

[Leroy]

i agree that elvis asociates do always contridict themselves, lord knows that ESPOSITO, and KLIEN have done this numerous times not to mention the STANLEYS, which many of these guys were loaded half the time , don't know what they ate the night before let alone what they saw heard happened thirty years ago, but im found strada sincere.

The problem is that most the time people are not interested in what really happened. That's why a lot of Elvis' employees use a little pepper and salt to spice up stories. Just a little in the beginning but after a while it gets worse. It does not make guys like Al Strada less sincere. I'm sure he means well but it's also entertaining to overdo a story before a willing audience. I just feel they're caught in a trap too.

[Dudcowboy_1]

Leory wouldn't the crew bring like 20 or little less than that jumpsuits then like Joe, or someone would pick 5 from that from that night? Then Elvis would pick from those 5 depending on what kind of suits the band members where wearing? I notice a lot of his suits matched either Charlie, JD, or Mr. Neilson? Now I know I can be totally wrong on this.

Also, if I remember right the two piece suits came about in 1975 because Elvis new he was over weight and he was afraid to the fans would notice so he wore 2-Pieces for a while. But when everyone said it didn't matter to them he wore the jumpsuits again.

But from what his friends and family members I met over the years. They also said in March, April Elvis was really down.

Love to all,

Tim Dudley

[Erik van den Berg]

wasn't he wearing a two piece costume on stage in 1975 because there was a rumor the kill Elvis. The only place Elvis was not safe, was on stage. He wore these suits so he could hold a gun under his costume without the audience to see it.

[Erik van den Berg]

if anyone out there has candid photos from dayton 76 i sure would l;ike to buy , if you have negs or contact sheets, i will pay top dollar for them, just send me a pm, thanks.

Here is a candid from after the October 26 show in Dayton Ohio:

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/candid-central/oct1076.jpg

[Erik van den Berg]

Boarding the Lisa Marie with Dick Grob in Dayton, OH on October 27, 1976 on his way to his last show of the tour at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale, IL

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/candid-central/1076eldg2.jpg

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/candid-central/1076eldg.jpg

Photos are from Paul's Elvis page.

[memphis 77]

thanks ERIK , but i'm looking for candid on the way to that nights performance, there is a girl with him and it is not linda or sheila , just wonderin who it is ,cause the film i have shows a real pretty lady, but from afar.Thanks again.

[Jungleroom76]

It is not true that the "Mexican Sundial" was the only suit that still fitted. During the June tour of 1977 he was less heavy than in 1976. There were numerous jumpsuits that would have fitted him. Especially because most suits after 1974 were designed to let out if Elvis would gain weight. Remember that at the beginning of the last tour Elvis wore the 1974 "Arabian". Other suits he could have worn were the 1975 "Chief", the 1975 "V-neck", the 1974 "Blue Swirl".......

But I strongly believe the reason for wearing the "Mexican Sundial" over and over again was because he was saying goodbye. If you examine the Aztec Calender stone on the front and back of the suit it says 16-8 all over.

The rumour about the so-called "Laser Suit" is what it says; just a rumour. Kept alive by Bill because the fans like to hear it, it's just good entertaining at Elvis meetings.
It was meant as a suit covered with mirrors that would catch the stage lights and create the effect of lasers beams. In fact the technigue was not available in 1977 to create a laser suit.

THANKS FOR THE INFO. LEROY!!! (y)

TCB!
Mike

[1100ccRider]

It is not true that the "Mexican Sundial" was the only suit that still fitted.

Very true. Here's something on that topic:

http://members.tripod.com/beyondthereef__1/jumpsuitmalaise.html

I've always thought that he wore that (1974) Sundial suit so often that last year because he was depressed and just didn't care. Ditto the 1976 prehistoric bird suits. That kind of thing's a pretty common symptom for people with clinical depression.



The rumour about the so-called "Laser Suit" is what it says; just a rumour. Kept alive by Bill because the fans like to hear it, it's just good entertaining at Elvis meetings.
It was meant as a suit covered with mirrors that would catch the stage lights and create the effect of lasers beams. In fact the technigue was not available in 1977 to create a laser suit.

I've always doubted Mr Belew's veracity on this one, too....no way was laser technology such in 1977 that Elvis' suit could have contained laser devices, not unless it was a kaftan the size of a small circus tent complete with a crew of several laser technicians inside. A mirror-studded suit could have reflected laser beams, sure, or caught and scattered regular stage lights, but no way was a laser-equipped suit possible. Looks like Elvis wasn't the only one into James Bond fantasies...

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

There has to be a really good reason why Elvis wore the Mexican Sundial as much as he did, perhaps as Leroy has said there is some link as to why he did so. I am certain that the guys around Elvis would have given more than the one option to Elvis if it was available. The trend for new Jumpsuits (excluding Two Piece Suits) had slowed from it's peak in 1973 of 17 new designs to just 2 Jumpsuit in 1976! So the Jumpsuits that Elvis wore were going to feal the wear and tear.

Jumpsuit Breakdown:-

1970 - 13 New designs
1971 - 13 New designs
1972 - 14 New designs - 7 Two piece suits
1973 - 17 New designs
1974 - 10 New designs - 3 Two piece suits
1975 - 08 New designs - 7 Two piece suits
1976 - 02 New designs
1977 - 01 New design - (Unworn)

The list above does not cover some of the one day only jumpsuits possibly worn in Vegas or take into account of the fact there were multiple versions of the same suit!

Leroy has named some Jumpsuis that Elvis could have worn but the list could easily be extended..... for instance the Silver/White and Red Bird suits along with the Rainfall or the Egyptian Bird suits.

It was not uncommon for Elvis to wear a Jumpsuit many times for instance Elvis wore the Blue Egyptian bird at least 30 times in 1976 and the White Egyptian Bird at least 34 times in 1976. The Mexican sundial was worn at least 39 times in 1977, when you put it into this context, yes it was worn a lot but........ so were others in 1976-77.

Matt

Just a simple equation, in 1977 Elvis did 55 shows and wore the Mexican Sundial 39 times, that equals 70.9% :supriced:

[Leroy]

Thanks for the input Matt. It very well put a lot of things into perspective.



I've (http://I've) always thought that he wore that (1974) Sundial suit so often that last year because he was depressed and just didn't care. Ditto the 1976 prehistoric bird suits. That kind of thing's a pretty common symptom for people with clinical depression.

Depression could have very well contributed to the routine of wearing the same clothes night after night. But, Elvis wasn't in a constant state of depression. Most of the time he was feeling up, joking with his surroundings. Although in 1977 the upcoming book of the West/Hebler gang must have layed heavy on his mind.

1976 was another story. In the first few months he brought in a little variety by wearing the 1975 "Silver Phoenix", the 1975 "Rainfall", the 1975 "V-neck" and the 1975 "Chicken Bone". But it was also American's Bicentennial year and by crossing the nation with almost only one night stands he had good reasons for wearing the "Egyptian Birds" for they were specially designed for this occasion. And....we see the photo's of Elvis wearing the same suits but a lot of people who attended the concerts in those days were not aware of that. Many of them saw these costumes for the very first time.........

[memphis 77]

you know thats a good point about depression and why E.P. wore the same suit, again and again, ELVIS was definetly depressed and suffered from BI POLAR disorder AKA [manic depression] I READ THIS SOMEWHERE I WISH I COULD REMEMBER, maybe someone outhere can help, anyway his depression was pretty severe thats why the group never knew what mood he would be in and most of the shows were lackluster , i think he hit a manic state durring the december tour of 76[grandiose, extreme energy etc] it could be that GINGER was the cause also, by FEBRUARY his DEPRESSION was back, his mood was somewhat normal but he was void of energy, and no doubt his mood coinsided with the rough times of showering, grooming, etc.., so i can see him saying to himself i don't care if i wear the same jumpsuit again, remember this is the same guy who ate the same meal for two years straight, compulsion disorder could have also played a roll, again just my opinion.

[Cryogenic]

Leroy, it's a pleasure reading your posts, but could you explain this comment:


But I strongly believe the reason for wearing the "Mexican Sundial" over and over again was because he was saying goodbye. If you examine the Aztec Calender stone on the front and back of the suit it says 16-8 all over.

Are you saying Elvis committed suicide?

And just how did he broach the sensitive issue of this design feature? "Er, guys, could you put all these references to 16th August in, as I'm planning to kill myself then. Thanks."

Seriously, I have never heard of this before. It's a fantastical claim. Could you elaborate?

[Leroy]

No, Elvis did not commit suicide. But Elvis was a very spritual person who was aware of forces and energy a lot of us are unaware of. And I did not mean Elvis was saying goodbye in a concious way. He did not decide one day: "I'm gonna wear this suit because the signs on it are obvious."

But have you ever experienced the death of a friend or relative? And then later on if you thought about it thinking backwards there were signs of a coming end? I believe very firmly in the fact that everybody chooses his own death. Not in our minds but in our souls. The mind (ego) wants to rule, wants to go on living, want to control. But the soul has other plans. It is done here and wants to move on to the next level of existence. So now there's a situation of conflict. This is the part where sickness, deseases and accidents come around the corner because almost all the time the mind (ego) will not do the wishes of the soul. So the souls have to use one of these tools to free itself. The soul will always win this battle.
But while this battle is going on there will always pieces of this in the mind. Subconciously you will do things that can be a signal, a weak signal most of the time. But they are there and you will behave differently. Your surroundings will take notice of it but they can't place it. I knew a kid once. He was only seventeen. In the last week of his life he started to "clean up". Payed his debts and on the last day just before suppor he said goodbye to his mom and went upstairs. When his mom called him there was no answer. When she entered his bedroom she found him lying on the floor he passed away. He didn't commot suicde, he died of a brain hammorage. There were signs.

And that is what I meant what happened with Elvis. He wasn't aware of it himself or maybe in a way he was....... If all people were more spiritual these signs could have been picked up because they are there to make people ready for it. But most of us lost it. And that why it goes unnoticed most the time.
Please realize this is not gospel for everybody. It's also not an opinion, it's just the way I believe and it used to be the way Elvis believed.

[rick]

could you please explain Leroy where the 16/8 references are on the sundial jumpsuit?
rick

[MauriceColgan]

What's all the fuss about death? I read somewhere it has nothing at all to do with life.

Anyway we will all experience it for ourselves....or will we?;-)

Elvis put more into his 42 years than most people do in the three score and ten years we are "supposed" to get. He did more than alright compared to a young 17 year old killed stone dead in a motobike accident. And all the other tragic and early deaths suffered by human beings.

I rode motorbikes for six years often at very high speed...a death wish?????? I was swimming in the Ocean recently and had to make a hasty return to the beach.........I could not breath enough air after foolishly chasing our grandchildren under water! Yes I'll go swimming again......................but slowly;-)

We all have a personal philosophy of life so everyone can make up their own minds as they experience more of it.

[Lonniebealestreet]

If you examine the Aztec Calender stone on the front and back of the suit it says 16-8 all over.
Leroy, I too am just now latching onto this statement you made nearly a month ago. All of your insights in this thread are much appreciated and I would like to hear more on this as well.

[Leroy]

I had a picture somewhere that I used for explaining. I hope I can find it.

[Cryogenic]

No, Elvis did not commit suicide. But Elvis was a very spritual person who was aware of forces and energy a lot of us are unaware of. And I did not mean Elvis was saying goodbye in a concious way. He did not decide one day: "I'm gonna wear this suit because the signs on it are obvious."

But have you ever experienced the death of a friend or relative? And then later on if you thought about it thinking backwards there were signs of a coming end? I believe very firmly in the fact that everybody chooses his own death. Not in our minds but in our souls. The mind (ego) wants to rule, wants to go on living, want to control. But the soul has other plans. It is done here and wants to move on to the next level of existence. So now there's a situation of conflict. This is the part where sickness, deseases and accidents come around the corner because almost all the time the mind (ego) will not do the wishes of the soul. So the souls have to use one of these tools to free itself. The soul will always win this battle.
But while this battle is going on there will always pieces of this in the mind. Subconciously you will do things that can be a signal, a weak signal most of the time. But they are there and you will behave differently. Your surroundings will take notice of it but they can't place it. I knew a kid once. He was only seventeen. In the last week of his life he started to "clean up". Payed his debts and on the last day just before suppor he said goodbye to his mom and went upstairs. When his mom called him there was no answer. When she entered his bedroom she found him lying on the floor he passed away. He didn't commot suicde, he died of a brain hammorage. There were signs.

And that is what I meant what happened with Elvis. He wasn't aware of it himself or maybe in a way he was....... If all people were more spiritual these signs could have been picked up because they are there to make people ready for it. But most of us lost it. And that why it goes unnoticed most the time.
Please realize this is not gospel for everybody. It's also not an opinion, it's just the way I believe and it used to be the way Elvis believed.

Leroy, that's a fascinating insight. I've never heard death talked about in just that way before.

But I wonder: how would this apply to people dying of disease and famine in third world countries? Or even people in developed countries being randomly shot or run over? Surely, in the case of the former, not everyone wants to die, but physical reality has the last word? Or are all their souls exasperated and ready to move on? And, in the latter, does a part of that person foresee a sudden event happening to them, once again meaning the soul is ready? I'm having difficulty seeing this cohesively.

In the case of Elvis, there are at least two things to consider: 1) Lisa Marie was at Graceland when he died. 2) He chose to take a lethal cocktail of drugs. Or are you saying his soul either foresaw or somehow compelled him to do it? Once more, I'm having a hard time applying what you've said to reality.

We may or may not have souls. Something may or may not endure in a world or dimension beyond our own. I am not a member of any faith. Though I think intelligence arises from somewhere beyond the physical. Why do we have the ability to consciously know of our existence? To think and feel? Even to dream up the most exotic fantasies? While I believe every last thought we have can be attributed to brain chemistry, the mere fact that conscious beings exist suggests that a greater intelligence may be behind the universe. I guess I am agnostic, tending towards pantheism. Though labels always seem crude to me.

Anyway, please proceed. I think you've piqued our curiosity over the design of the sundial suit. Let us hear your thoughts!

[Leroy]

Cryogenic, I'm getting in trouble a little this time. Not because of lack of knowledge on this subject but because of a lauguage barierre. Although my English is above average for a Dutch guy I am afraid I could get lost in trying to explain. We are also drifting away from the original subject but I don't mind if others do not maind too.

First I would like to make a suggestion. If you are really interested in this stuff, not only because of Elvis role in this all, but also because of the whole concept I would like you to read "A Conversation with God" from Neale Donald Walsh. It's the kind of book Elvis would have read if he was still alive. Although many of Elvis' books are of the same kind.

The reason were here is because we have to experience things we already know. This is the souls' task, no not task, it's a wish. But to have experiences the soul needs transportation. That's the body. The motor of the body is the mind. The path is all layed down. The tracks are there. The soul has made choices a long time ago and that's why some things happens. I do realize it's hard to understand for a lot of people but nothing in life happens without a plan. It happens because it was asked for. It's the experience that counts, not only for our own soul but also for the one around us.

The souls of the people in Africa who are dying of hunger are there to experience just that. But it's also a double edged sword. They're there to deal with it and to "know" what it is. But they are also there for us...... To show us what we are. They are teaching us about ourselves. Giving us a choice to turn and run or to re-create ourselves into someone who cares about what's happening. I know it's fare away from the original Christian beliefs as we have learned through the ages but that is one of the "benefits" of people who have manipulated the contents of the Bible in a way so they could rule with the hand of fear and repressing. By the way, the Bible isn't complete. They have removed chaptes about spirituality and reincarnation.

To go back to Elvis. I have found the picture I was talking about. Just count the patters on the rings I have pointed out with arrows. In a way I hoped to find some clues with the numbers 1977 or 42 but I don't believe they are there.

[Lonniebealestreet]

Very interesting, Leroy. I have heard some of that before and am open to some of the possibilities there.

About the suit specifically...the Aztec calendar is apparently open to some interpretation--is that correct? I know nothing on the subject except for Googling it a few minutes ago and briefly reading about it on a couple of websites. I'm trying to ascertain whether it is a matter of the numbers 8 and 16 simply being represented there, which is something of a coincidence, or if the literal translation of the calendar on Elvis' suit is August 16, which would obviously be a remarkable coincidence.

Has Gene Douchette ever addressed his inspiration for the design?

[Cryogenic]

Leroy, that is brilliant!

Your English is also excellent. It's better than most native English-speaking people. And that's a fact.

I am familiar with the holistic approach of Eastern religion and mysticism through, of all things... Star Wars. In fact, I am familiar with various aspects from Star Wars, including concepts like The Endless Knot. I was just kinda trying you out there.

I am still very dubious that what you've found means anything, though. Humans always look for patterns in things. For instance, 8 is half of 16, and flipping it around, 16 is twice of 8. One thing strongly points to coincidence, and since the second thing is intimately linked with the first, in a simple mathematical relationship, it's hardly any kind of evidence to a critical thinker like me. Unless, once again, you can elaborate, and maybe explain something I've missed. Nonetheless, that's a beautiful picture, and I doubt I'll ever be able to look at that jumpsuit in the same way again. I have always thought that they should emphasise the suit in a release of EIC, and now I think that more than ever. They could design some really beautiful boxart for a future DVD release around it. Incidentally, do you have any more close-up pictures like that?

[thehillbillycat]

I know some on Aztec and the calendar that they have. That is indeed 8/16 on the calendar. My god, I couldn't believe it when I saw it. That is kinda weird when you think of it. The way to find the year on the Sundial Calendar is this way:

The Aztec year consisted of eighteen months, each having 20 days. Each month was given a specific name. This arrangement
took care of 360 days (18x20), to which five dots were added inside the circle. These dots, known as Nemontemi, were
sacrificial days.

The next concentric circle is composed of square sections with five dots in each section, probably representing weeks of five
days. Next are eight angles dividing the stone in eight parts. These represent the suns rays placed according to the cardinal
points.

On the lower portion of the stone, two enormous snakes encircle the stone and face each other. Their bodies are divided into
sections containing the symbols for flames, elephant-like trunks, and jaguar-like forelegs. It is believed that these sections are
also records of fifty-two year cycles. A square is carved at the top of the calendar between the tails fo the snakes. Inside the
square the date 13 Acatl is carved. This corresponds to 1479, the year the calendar was finished. 1479 is when the real aztec sundial was completed.

From looking at the Sundial that is on Elvis' costume I don't think it has a year on it. By using what I found on looking for the year.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Leroy and Elvislennon, thank you for the insight into spirituality and Aztec history.

Having come from a childhood of religion (my school was called Holy Trinity) I have struggled with the concept of how religion or more to the point God conducts his affairs with his children (US!) I have absolutely no problem with spirituality as this seems a more pure way of leading your life without the heavy handed way that years of revisionist history from totalitarian regimes has given us. However perhaps the breakdown of the God fearing Idomatic society has largely left a capitalistic way of life which has little time for family values of old.

As Leroy has already commented the Bible is far from accurate it also is slanted in such a way as to frightening people into capitulating.

Enough of me ranting about my personal psychosis :P

To get back on track with the topic at hand.... Elvis was I believe at odds with his fame and how it impacted him, he searched beyond the conventional religious philosophy to give him the answers he desperately needed. The Sundial Suit was made and designed by Gene and any correlation to Aztec philosohy would surely be purely coincidental on Elvis' part, is this then where the unconcious mind/soul plays a part?

Matt

[vulcandude]

It is my understanding that the decision as to what suit Elvis would wear for a particular concert very heavily depended on what mood he was in. He might be more apt to wear one suit one night, but be in a mood to wear another for the next. As for the making of the suits, Elvis did present his own ideas, (and not just for the Aloha suit), but Priscilla would sometimes have ideas as well. I'm not so sure that Elvis wore the Aztec Sundial almost exclusively, ( I think starting in March or April), due to his weight gain, but I rather believe he really liked the suit as he wore it so much. If Elvis had been that concerned about his weight to where he could only wear one particular outfit, (and it's fairly well known he was concerned about it), I think he'd have had others made. I also think he wore this suit a lot because of its popularity with the fans. Elvis wanted to please his fans...with his music, and with what he wore. Lastly, if anyone can help me find any photos of Elvis from his concerts in Murfreesboro, Tennessee at MTSU in 1974 and 1975, I'd gladly pay for them.

[vulcandude]

"No, Elvis did not commit suicide. But Elvis was a very spritual person who was aware of forces and energy a lot of us are unaware of. And I did not mean Elvis was saying goodbye in a concious way. He did not decide one day: "I'm gonna wear this suit because the signs on it are obvious." But have you ever experienced the death of a friend or relative? And then later on if you thought about it thinking backwards there were signs of a coming end? I believe very firmly in the fact that everybody chooses his own death. Not in our minds but in our souls. The mind (ego) wants to rule, wants to go on living, want to control. But the soul has other plans. It is done here and wants to move on to the next level of existence. So now there's a situation of conflict. This is the part where sickness, deseases and accidents come around the corner because almost all the time the mind (ego) will not do the wishes of the soul. So the souls have to use one of these tools to free itself. The soul will always win this battle. But while this battle is going on there will always pieces of this in the mind. Subconciously you will do things that can be a signal, a weak signal most of the time. But they are there and you will behave differently. Your surroundings will take notice of it but they can't place it. I knew a kid once. He was only seventeen. In the last week of his life he started to "clean up". Payed his debts and on the last day just before suppor he said goodbye to his mom and went upstairs. When his mom called him there was no answer. When she entered his bedroom she found him lying on the floor he passed away. He didn't commot suicde, he died of a brain hammorage. There were signs. And that is what I meant what happened with Elvis. He wasn't aware of it himself or maybe in a way he was....... If all people were more spiritual these signs could have been picked up because they are there to make people ready for it. But most of us lost it. And that why it goes unnoticed most the time. Please realize this is not gospel for everybody. It's also not an opinion, it's just the way I believe and it used to be the way Elvis believed."

I just read this by Leroy, and I'm not so sure. I don't believe Elvis committed suicide or anything, but, I do believe he thought he might not live much longer than his Mom. I don't think though, that Elvis knew he would die when he did, and therefore go around consciously making preparations. I know Elvis lived with a lot of fears, but we all do, it's part of what makes us human. And this battle between soul and ego also doesn't take into account the fact we all have free will. Talking about Elvis' death doesn't help...it only reminds us more that he isn't here.....

[MISSCLAWDY]

I read a bit about the subjects Leroy talked about , and I tend to believe our souls "know" when the time of leaving our bodies is coming ; it's not something we consciously know , more unconsciously I might say. I believe our souls follow ways we're not always able to understand , very ancient paths , ruled by the wisdom of ancient knowledge.
Sorry for my English, I hope you understand what I mean..:blush:

[poormansgold]

This Is Odd To hear it, If You Hear words To Way Down, That's how We or anothers thing that He is Alive Today The Words Of That Song. I can go with this. I want say was I hear That He Was coming To Seattle because if the new Kingdome. on New Year'sEve, 1977/78, I liv In Washington State That time, and it's Was time I got starting on Elvis and time i had Neruous broke down .
Tom

[jadedragon61]

How about somebody craeting an overview of all the know jumpsuits; if not a pictorial, then at least a written list? Or has someone already done this?

TCB
Bob

[Tony Trout]

How about somebody craeting an overview of all the know jumpsuits; if not a pictorial, then at least a written list? Or has someone already done this?

TCB
Bob

Here's a cool site to check out in regards to Elvis's jumpsuits:

Silvester's Elvis Pages (http://www.silvesterselvispage.com/wardrobe.html)

And yes, our very own Leroy has compiled a PDF. file of the actual names of the jumpsuits...I have a copy of the list...but I wouldn't want to post the list without Leroy's permission first....

Take Care,
Tony Trout

[PSK]

fascinating debate - great work guys

[eviebaby]

Yes , intriguing theories. But you are all forgetting one thing. None of you mention all the drugs Elvis was taking. Surely this helped him along his way to the great beyond?
Whenever I read books about Elvis, it seems him and the Memphis Mafia were ALL stoned most of the time. It makes me wonder how Elvis could have done what he did , if he was in that state constantly.

[Unchained Melody]

So much great info hear from Leroy, Cryogenic, JJ, and everyone else involved in the discussion.

As for Elvis wearing the Sundial having something to do with 8/16 and a sign of him saying goodbye = BS imo Elvis was just simply not interested in updating the wardrobe, and relied on the Sundial as most other suits' probably wouldn't fit with his huge weight gain through 1977.

[SeeSeeRider777]

Yeah Elvis was not intrested in updating the wardrobe, if he was he would have worn something different on the CBS Special, knowing he was going on Television.

[cameron]

So much great info hear from Leroy, Cryogenic, JJ, and everyone else involved in the discussion.
As for Elvis wearing the Sundial having something to do with 8/16 and a sign of him saying goodbye = BS imo Elvis was just simply not interested in updating the wardrobe, and relied on the Sundial as most other suits' probably wouldn't fit with his huge weight gain through 1977.

Did you really read what they said?




It is not true that the "Mexican Sundial" was the only suit that still fitted. During the June tour of 1977 he was less heavy than in 1976. There were numerous jumpsuits that would have fitted him. Especially because most suits after 1974 were designed to let out if Elvis would gain weight. Remember that at the beginning of the last tour Elvis wore the 1974 "Arabian". Other suits he could have worn were the 1975 "Chief", the 1975 "V-neck", the 1974 "Blue Swirl".......
But I strongly believe the reason for wearing the "Mexican Sundial" over and over again was because he was saying goodbye. If you examine the Aztec Calender stone on the front and back of the suit it says 16-8 all over.

[ElvisLivesInEveryone]

I know some on Aztec and the calendar that they have. That is indeed 8/16 on the calendar. My god, I couldn't believe it when I saw it. That is kinda weird when you think of it. The way to find the year on the Sundial Calendar is this way:

The Aztec year consisted of eighteen months, each having 20 days. Each month was given a specific name. This arrangement
took care of 360 days (18x20), to which five dots were added inside the circle. These dots, known as Nemontemi, were
sacrificial days.

The next concentric circle is composed of square sections with five dots in each section, probably representing weeks of five
days. Next are eight angles dividing the stone in eight parts. These represent the suns rays placed according to the cardinal
points.

On the lower portion of the stone, two enormous snakes encircle the stone and face each other. Their bodies are divided into
sections containing the symbols for flames, elephant-like trunks, and jaguar-like forelegs. It is believed that these sections are
also records of fifty-two year cycles. A square is carved at the top of the calendar between the tails fo the snakes. Inside the
square the date 13 Acatl is carved. This corresponds to 1479, the year the calendar was finished. 1479 is when the real aztec sundial was completed.

From looking at the Sundial that is on Elvis' costume I don't think it has a year on it. By using what I found on looking for the year.

If Sundial Suit was actually designed to have the date of Aug. 16th, then the question arises of Bill Belew... did he know what he was doing when he made this suit? Let's not forget that it was originally designed and debuted on stage in 1974, three years before his death.

[Leroy]

Bill Belew didn't know anything because he wasn't the designer of the suit.

[cameron]

Bill Belew didn't know anything because he wasn't the designer of the suit.


No, Elvis did not commit suicide. But Elvis was a very spritual person who was aware of forces and energy a lot of us are unaware of. And I did not mean Elvis was saying goodbye in a concious way. He did not decide one day: "I'm gonna wear this suit because the signs on it are obvious." But have you ever experienced the death of a friend or relative? And then later on if you thought about it thinking backwards there were signs of a coming end? I believe very firmly in the fact that everybody chooses his own death. Not in our minds but in our souls. The mind (ego) wants to rule, wants to go on living, want to control. But the soul has other plans. It is done here and wants to move on to the next level of existence. So now there's a situation of conflict. This is the part where sickness, deseases and accidents come around the corner because almost all the time the mind (ego) will not do the wishes of the soul. So the souls have to use one of these tools to free itself. The soul will always win this battle. But while this battle is going on there will always pieces of this in the mind. Subconciously you will do things that can be a signal, a weak signal most of the time. But they are there and you will behave differently. Your surroundings will take notice of it but they can't place it. I knew a kid once. He was only seventeen. In the last week of his life he started to "clean up". Payed his debts and on the last day just before suppor he said goodbye to his mom and went upstairs. When his mom called him there was no answer. When she entered his bedroom she found him lying on the floor he passed away. He didn't commot suicde, he died of a brain hammorage. There were signs. And that is what I meant what happened with Elvis. He wasn't aware of it himself or maybe in a way he was....... If all people were more spiritual these signs could have been picked up because they are there to make people ready for it. But most of us lost it. And that why it goes unnoticed most the time. Please realize this is not gospel for everybody. It's also not an opinion, it's just the way I believe and it used to be the way Elvis believed."


Another wise man. ;)
And, I agree with your philosophy too.
Some just seem to "know" when their time has come.

[Unchained Melody]

Did you really read what they said?

Yes I did read that. OK so their were a couple of other suit's he could've fitted in perhaps.

That wasn't the point I was trying to get across though my friend, just simply trying to say that I don't think Elvis was interested in what he was doing anymore obviously, with the same setlist, same suit, and playing the same one nighters in towns he had played in for the past 20 or so years.

I just don't look at it as a way of him saying good bye, I think it was just him showing he just wasn't interested in what he was doing anymore like he was say in the early 70's.;)

[cameron]

Yes I did read that. OK so their were a couple of other suit's he could've fitted in perhaps.

That wasn't the point I was trying to get across though my friend, just simply trying to say that I don't think Elvis was interested in what he was doing anymore obviously, with the same setlist, same suit, and playing the same one nighters in towns he had played in for the past 20 or so years.

I just don't look at it as a way of him saying good bye, I think it was just him showing he just wasn't interested in what he was doing anymore like he was say in the early 70's.;)
You might try looking at his life .Then you might get it. ;)

[ElvisLivesInEveryone]

Bill Belew didn't know anything because he wasn't the designer of the suit.

OK, so who designed the suit? Was it Gene Doucette? Whoever designed it had to have known what he was doing??? I mean, if Elvis had wanted the suit to specifically show Aug. 16, he would have told the man that designed it.

[Leroy]

It was Gene Doucette who created this suit. In fact he was the designer of ALL jumpsuits after 1971. He never met Elvis and Elvis never even heard about the man. As far as Elvis knew all his wardobe came from Bill. It was a very difficult construction. Besides that Elvis never ordered a special design except in the case of the 1973 "American Eagle" (Aloha). Elvis never put in any ideas. He fully trusted on what the designers had to offer. The only thing he did do was letting you know if he DIDN'T like it.
That was the case with the 1975 navy blue two-pieces. Those ones were created by Bill and he almost got fired over them...

For the rest.... I think we can speculate about the meaning of the "Mexican Sundial" until hell freezes over. The only thing we do know is that is says 8 - 16. And that is that. All the rest is pure speculation.
A while ago I wrote someting about it in a more spiritual way and Cameron brought that piece under the attention again. I'm still behind that story all the way but it's hard to discuss spiritual matters with non-spiritual believers. No offence. We all are facing one big problem here.... in order to understand fully we have to look through Elvis' eyes. And that is impossible.

[Leroy]

But maybe.... to add some more confusion.... you all look at it in the wrong order. What if the suit came before the thought? That it just numerological fitted. Or that it just fitted in destiny. This suit made its debut in the fall of 1974. Maybe Elvis didn't liked it at first. He probably could appreciate the design and the special meaning of the Aztec culture. But faith and destiny does perform in strange ways and I believe in both of them. Elvis did too. More and more towards the end things happened. I do not believe in "a suit specially desinged with 8-16 on it", but the suit was there already. And subcounciously Elvis could have taken it out of his wardobe and started to use it. Maybe destiny "guided" him to it. There are always signs and numbers around us. Some of us listen and some don't. I do. Elvis did.

[Dekerivers57]

Greetings All,
I realize I am not known and really a nobody here, but I very much enjoy all the insight and research that you all do. Anyway, I have noticed that Elvis seemed to be a "Habitual Dresser" meaning, he would go through phases when he woudl wear the same thing over and over againg. For example, going all the way back to the 50's, there are photos spanning about 8-months where he is clearly wearing the same sport coat. I'm sure you all know the one he is wearing in the photo's with Natalie Wood. As I look back over the photos I see this same type of thing being repeated. Oh well, I just wanted to through that out there for what it's worth.

[Lisarose]

Most people are habitual, especially if they have a lot of stress in their lives. For example, think about your workplace, if you go to your breakroom for cofee or soda, don't you usually sit in the exact same spot or area each time? Pick the same bathroom stall to use each time. These little things just keep us a little bit sane. :D

Back to Elvis' clothing, as I understand the jumpsuits, weren't even his 2 peice suits fitted as jumpsuits underneath? I read that this was done because of the constant dance/karate movements Elvis did. Not the jacket, but the shirt attached to the pants, that is.

[Leroy]

Lisa, do you mean the two-piece outfits Elvis used in 1975? If so...these were sleeveless jumpsuits. The shirts were just shirts and were not attached. He could wear any shirt with them. For instance... with the "Navy Blue Two-piece with Red Scallops" he wore yellow shirts as well as white shirts. Below you will see a drawing I made. Here you can see what it looks like without the jacket.

[Lisarose]

Okay, I get it, thanks for the info, Leroy, and

(y) the glasses are cool! Lisa

[Leroy]

And each of these suits also had an original belt.

[utmom2008]

Back to Elvis' clothing, as I understand the jumpsuits, weren't even his 2 peice suits fitted as jumpsuits underneath? I read that this was done because of the constant dance/karate movements Elvis did. Not the jacket, but the shirt attached to the pants, that is.

I think I get what what you are talking about Lisa. In the summer of 72 he wore the 2 piece suits with the shirt underneath. That's what he had on when I saw him in Vegas that year. I always wondered what kept the shirt tucked in because at that time he could and did pretty physical..especially with "Suspicious Minds". He would take the jacket off not long after being on stage. He had on the the outfit below in my pic except it was a solid royal blue shirt.