controversial

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I know what I am about to say may be controversial but it occured to me yesterday that the reason Elvis died was due to a heart attack brought on by an overdose of medication!

From what has been commonly been described Elvis could not sleep on the morning of 16th August and took another set of medication.

Now here is the question........................ do you think there is a possibility that Elvis could have overdosed on purpose?

I'm no trying to upset anyone just merely explore the possibility that this is one option, my reasons are as follows:-

1. Elvis was aware of the book "Elvis What happened" and the possible impact that could have on him both personally and career wise.

2. His health was failing him.

3. Elvis recorded the Elvis In Concert video for prosperity knowing that with his health failing he might not have much longer.

4. The thought of another round of touring could have been to much.

It seems an unlikey scenario, has anyone else ever come accross this possibility?

I know there are a myriad of reasons why Elvis would have wanted to live, I will be intrigued to hear you thoughts on this one.



Matt

[0349054]

Interesting post.

I don't think Elvis Presley would have taken an overdose. I just don't think it was in him to do that to himself. Sure he may not have been that pleased with his overall situation, but I really doubt he would have done that.

This is the guy who felt that even though he was ill he had to work to sustain the Memphis Mafia. I dont Elvis would have just ended it and then left them with nothing, as his will doesen't look after any of them and he'd only recently done up a new one.

Elvis' father was not well. It could be argued that Elvis was fearing the worst regarding his father and was dreading the task of coping with it. But, had Elvis killed himself, he would have deliberately inflicted undue stress and tension on both his father and his grandmother, not to mention the fact that Lisa was staying in Graceland that night.

I just don't think Elvis would have done it, ever. But, on the other hand I do think Elvis may have considered it between 76-77'. Sure Elvis did have a lot to deal with around the time of his death, a lot of stress, no doubt, But I think it was the stresss and emotional turmoil that helped trigger his untimely death. I don't know for certain, but Elvis did often taken a second 'hit' of medication if he coulden't sleep.

It is terrible that he died. But he knew his time would eventually come, and I hope he is at peace now. He deserves it.:king:

[richardo316]

i believe it's possible he might have unintentially overdosed. i doubt he would have done it on purpose. especially with lisa there.:cool:

[NEA]

I do feel that Elvis was very much in bad health as the months of 1977 passed by one by one. And, there had been a re-occurring intestinal problem for a few years.

However, the drug problem only sped up the process of his failing health due to the amount of medication Elvis was consuming and the type of medication that it was.

I do believe that Elvis' death was a very sad and unintentional happening that occurred due to the lethal cocktail of his circumstances - medication included. Whose to say that Elvis would have lived if he hadn't been on medication anyway - maybe not??

I know that the one main focus of his stress for that last year was that 'Bodyguard' book - if only Elvis could have dismissed the three of them himself instead of telling Vernon just to go ahead and do it whilst he was out of town...maybe he could have caused himself less stress and worry knowing that he has sacked them for a genuine reason and there wouldn't have been any comeback on the situation in the form of a trashy tell-all book?

Nevertheless, I do feel that the writing was on the wall and it was just a matter of time before Elvis' situation spiralled even further as it did - it appears to be that everything seemed to happen all at once...so sad.

The Bodyguards have always maintained that they wrote the book to try and get Elvis to wake-up to his situation, but in the end he gave the three of them something more than that to contemplate. Elvis must have left them with such thoughts as "Maybe our book was to blame...maybe our book killed him!"...

Maybe it was a contributing factor...but it was unintentional.

[Tommy]

NO! I don't think Elvis tried to kill himself. It was the circumstances of his medications coupled with his health problems. I don't think "The Book" had anything to do with it. Elvis was a strong person, he took care of anyone! It was just what happened it was sad, but all of us need to let go of it. It's crazy to keep thinking something was awfully wrong with Elvis mentally that he was so hurt by this or that. I don't believe it. He dealt all his life with all kinds of troubles and helped so many.

He just had too many addictions, just not to medications. He loved everything. Almost everybody at one time in their life gains weight and over eats. He was just fat like a lot of us end up. That doesn't mean you would intentionally try to take your own life just because you like to eat.

His Father, Liza and his Grandmother were still here, I just don't believe it, I think it was just an ACCIDENT. Sad, sad thing. He got up on that stage and sang his heart out, does that seen like a man that wants to die.

For me I say NO! Elvis had a lot to live for.

Tommy

[EnigmaticSun]

Well, I think that Elvis would have loved to take care of Lisa-Marie as long as he could have done it. He loved her so much and he was a good father. And don't forget he loved the interaction with his audience so much that he had every reason to live on, with or without all that pain. If our man would have taken an overdose, it would have been unintentionally.

There may have been a complication: as far as I know, Elvis went to the dentist the day before he died and took a pain killer, called codeine. This substance may work out negatively in combination with other medicine, but anyway you look at it, when it's your time to go it's your time to go. Elvis was in severe pain and very ill, I'm in a way glad that he has found his peace in the valley.

Of course, you can always say 'that's no way for a man to die'... A parachute not opening... that's a way to die. Getting caught in the gears of a combine... having your nuts bit off by a Laplander, that's the way I wanna go - NOT! But when the time comes, it's imminent and there you go.

[Wendy56]

Are you talking about suicide???... I heard, a long time ago, one of Elvis' friends saying on a TV show that Elvis was a very religious man and that suicide is a sin. I don't remember this "friend" name, but I agree with him. Elvis loved his life. That book affected him terribly. I heard also that he was scared about what could little Lisa's think in relation with her daddy' life, but I can't believe Elvis took this "easy way out". Anyway, the king had a lot of health problems... right? One of my fan club friends told me: "Elvis had cancer on his bones, glaucoma..." and she mentined other diseases, so perhaps death was the besto option for Elvis. You know what I mean??? I wouldn't like to see the king sadder and lost. He's now near to the Lord and I feel so much better for him. I love him and want the best for my dear friend.

[geordie]

a very brave ,honest post jumpsuit:hmm:

the posts on here have said that elvis woudnt have killed himself because lisa-marie was at the house that night,and he woudnt have done such a thing,when youre that DEPRESSED i think all reasonable thoughts go out the window.saying that, i think that the kings death was just that, a sad death,an accident waiting to happen,a commbination of ill health and medication abuse.

such is life :hmm:

im going to put on the new ALL SHOOK UP, F.T.D.- C.D. on, and rock ,n, roll:cool: :notworthy

[Diane]

I personally don't think Elvis would ever have intentionally tried to commit suicide. I think like most of you that he may have overdosed unintentionally or that in combination with the codeine it was too much for his ill, tired and depressed body to take. He had too much put on him emotionally and physically for too long and it took it's toll. Sad and such a waste of a basically wonderful and talented person.

[michu]

Overdosed with purpose? I dont think so...but who knows???We will never know.

[Lisa]

I have often thought the same thing. I try not to think a long those lines with anybody.. Although the question still lies there. I guess we will never know. I personally hope that he did not overdose on purpose.. ans surely he wouldn't have done it on the loo with his pants down......


Lisa :king:

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

an surely he wouldn't have done it on the loo with his pants down......

Has it been absolutely confirmed that Elvis was Actually on the loo!!

[EP4MEUK]

Why could Elvis have never taken his own life?The thought of it sickens me but after all he was only human and as we know some people in this life reach a place they believe is of no return with the question of what is there left to live for? Even from the most powerful person with everything they could possibly want to the average person as taken their own life at sometime. I dont think Elvis did take his own life but if he did it he had his reasons for doing so and a mind at the time that thought it was right. All those people that have commited suicide most if not all would have loved the families wanted to be them forever but when the mind is not thinking right sometimes this happens sad but true.

A delicate subject to say the least but everyone an opinion this just happens to be mine.

love and peace.
Susan.

[EnigmaticSun]

It is difficult, though, to figure out what the meaning of 'an overdose' is. Committing suicide, no, that seems unlikely for a loving father like Elvis.

On the other hand, the medication Elvis needed isn't very healthy in the long run. But I guess Elvis felt it was necessary and give the man a break, please - when you're in so much pain as he was, I can very well imagine him wanting to take something to ease his discomfort.

[Lonniebealestreet]

Yes, it is a tough question. I have always been inclined to think that he could or would not have intentionally killed himself.

As has been said, the circumstances sure don't point to it--Lisa being in the house, the position he was in when he was found (no one would have chosen to be found that way, and certainly not Elvis), no note left or any of the dramatics people close to him would have expected if he had gone that route...

Still, we can't be certain. When we try to consider all the factors, acknowledging the pressures and the things possibly going through his mind then, we still can't get into his head enough to be able to rule out that in the depths of his depression and in a chemically altered mindset, he might not have chosen to take his life.

I choose not to believe that, not because it's easier for me to think that way, but because I personally believe it's by far the least likely scenario.

[rickster]

hi folks, great topic for discussion this one:hmm: let me see, it is possible that he may have taken his own life owing to the fact that a few things were against him in the final year or so of his life. The 'elvis-what happened' book was probably the worst thing that could have happened, why?, elvis was a man who cared and loved people to the full and the closer they were to him and the more trust that they showed him the more he felt devoted to them and he always felt that he owed THEM something back. These guys were supposed to be his friends but out of bitterness they decided to write a book about certain accounts of elvis life. I personally have read the book and i saw nothing more than a normal everyday human being who could hit low times and blow his stack just like anyone else can, he also had a huge appetite for exploring things and how they worked.
I have also read in several other books and seen on various documentaries that elvis began to question his success and himself, he was known to have several conversations with members of the memphis mafia and asked them why it was him that was chosen to be such a massive international star and not someone else.
Elvis also suffered the wrath of the media at that time, saying that he was overweight and sluggish, looking puffy arund the eyes etc, these guys are not interested in the positive signs that elvis gave, they wanted the sleaze and dirt and the worse the show was the better it was for the media to sell their papers.
His health, of course, was the major issue, by the end of 1976 elvis did'nt really look too bad, the new years eve concert is testament to this fact, he looked great in my opinion and if you study the footage carefully you can clearly see a glint in his eye as he performed that night, also it was a long show by elvis standards but it was superb, his voice was exceptional that night also. But by february 1977 the writing was on the wall that something was seriously wrong and it was clear that he did'nt look too great, his eyes were dead in my opinion, all the excitement had gone and he looked really tired and yet as the months went by he just kept going until the final show, and somehow he managed to look quite good, even his appearance on that final show by the pics that i have seen, show elvis looking a little thinner and better than he did all that year, which to me showed that elvis could still do things when he put his mind to it.
I don't think his death was deliberate I put it down to a simple case of a drugs overdose, it happens in everyday life now so why would it be any different back then????, it's a sad sad waste of such a talented and god given person, but alas that is life, Elvis proved even at the very end that he was only human!!!!!.

[waymore44]

I clicked that he OD'd above but was not aware that the selection was referring to suicide. Anything is possible, but more than likely it was an accidental overdose or lethal combo including the codeine.

[P.S. Annie]

Interesting all those different opinions. I think he didnt overdose on purpose like mentioned before by others, like Lisa in the house and the way he was found.

[carolynlm]

I think that Elvis had the opinion that 'more is better' in everything he did...I don't think he intentionally over medicated.

[cutiepie]

Hello!

Maybe I'm watching too much Law & Order, but when Elvis was over-doing it on the pills, was it possible for Vernon (or Priscilla, as the former wife) to assume some kind of power-of-attorney, and enforce some kind of intervention?

Someone mentioned before that there was no Betty Ford Center, etc., at the time. However, I'm sure that if Elvis' inner circle could have gotten a group of credible doctors to consult, they would have been able to come up with something to help him.

I'm reading the Memphis Mafia Revelations book (Alanna Nash), and it sounds like Lamar, Billy, and Marty had "tried" to get Elvis to stop destroying his health. That is admirable, but at the same time, I feel like they valued their job, money, gifts, etc., too much to really push for Elvis to get some professional help. In fact, they enabled Elvis, and took part in rationalizing.

In the book, they say that they did everything to help Elvis, but they did not seem to consider that Elvis may not have been in the right frame of mind, with the drugs in his system.

Where was Priscilla in all this? In her book, she said that she and Elvis remained friends because of Lisa Marie. Even if Priscilla didn't care for Elvis anymore, at the very least, he was the father of her daughter. Wouldn't she want Lisa Marie to have a healthy father to bond with?

Anyway, the book did not seem very revelatory to me, but I've read so many. It's all just so sad!

[FireEyes]

I don't think Elvis OD-ed on purpose because if you really think about it, he loved Lisa very much and I know that he would never do anything to hurt her. In that case, Elvis would have NEVER killed himself and "upset" her! (n)

Elvis might have thought of the possibilities of where that book held a place in his future and MAYBE thought about OD-ing...but I highly doubt it :!:

[Albert]

Many people that commit suicide have much love for their kids, parents and family. You have to understand that the act of killing yourself only takes just a few minutes. It's no secret that Elvis suffered from depressions.

People that commit suicide don't have to be extremely depressed every single moment of the day. Many depressed people experience extreme heighs and lows and suffer from heavy moodswings. Many people close to Elvis also experienced these moodswings from Elvis and were shocked by it.

It's also common that people who commit suicide do so to prevent their family from hurt, (financial) danger, embarresment, and so on. Every sane person knows that you never improve things by commiting suicide. But depression is an illness, and people suffering from it don't always think like a sane person.

[KPM]

YOu do not get your teeth cleaned if your contemplating suicide, you dont worry about crash dieting, nor about how your new tour is selling. And the two biggest reasons not to , in Elvis's case, are in Christianity you are taoght you go to hell for suicide-someone who worried so much about his religious feelings and if he was doing what God wanted would never do that and secondly his daughter was there, he would never, never take the chance of scarring his daughter for life by her maybe seeing something like that. If you believe Elvis feared God and loved his daughter the answer is simple.

[KPM]

On a personal note on this subject I have first hand knowledge. In my family, on my fathers side, 4 people have comitted suicide in the last 50 years including my father whom I found. Two of the others were his brothers. I have read many books on the subject of suicide to try and find answers. IF i were to rate the chances of Elvis having done it from what I have read I would give it less than 10% chance. My father had withdrawn from life for months he quit his job and hardly left the house for weeks, had almost no contact with anyone outside our home. Compare this to Elvis renting the amusement park, going to movies, trying to get a copy of Star Wars for Lisa, he still cared about life going on around him sorry I just do not see it.

[TCE]

I don't believe he commited suicide. He was not that kind of man. He loved life (even though he had many bad expeiriences) and he loved his fans above all. He wouldn't do that to them. I think that he was so worn out phisacly that his heart just couldn't take it anymore. I mean the bussy live he led (all those concerts) and the use of medication was too much. We all know that Elvis needed a part of the medication, because he had a couple of illnesses. He started to use the uppers and downers because of his way of life (Bussy and stressful.) and when he was addicted to them he couldn't do without. There are so many rumours that give you goosepumps that it's better not to listen to them. I only can say I feel sorry for Elvis. And the only thing we can do is to keep his legacy alive so his work wasn't for nothing, because to me he had a special message for us: Be true, be fare, respect eachother and never doubt in God. In other words: Tender Loving Care.


Be safe and take care,

Christel (TCE)

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I had a inlaw who committed suicide who was a devout catholic, religion has lttle to do with your state of mind if you feel in a low way! I personally feel that a just God would not punish someone who had taken there own life. You would not take your own life if you were thinking clearly, your state of mind at that time is one of dispair.

When you are depressed you are not thinking clearly, other family members are a seconderary consideration and would benefit from you not being there, you will have a skewed view of the world and your perspective in it.

Also outwardly you might give the impression that you are ok?

[KPM]

I had a inlaw who committed suicide who was a devout catholic, religion has lttle to do with your state of mind if you feel in a low way! I personally feel that a just God would not punish someone who had taken there own life. You would not take your own life if you were thinking clearly, your state of mind at that time is one of dispair.

When you are depressed you are not thinking clearly, other family members are a seconderary consideration and would benefit from you not being there, you will have a skewed view of the world and your perspective in it.

Also outwardly you might give the impression that you are ok?

You are correct, but we are not talking about just anybody. We are talking about someone who we all seem to acknowledge was a special, special person. Someone who -knew he was special and spent a huge amount of time in the last years of his life looking for the answer to why did God pick me. It amazes me how people seem to want to look for whatever the worst scenerio for every situation in his life. More often than the questions are ones which can NEVER be answered by anyone-Priscilla, Lisa, every so called BEST friend who writes a book, and us his fans. With so much negative speculation by us, no wonder the world seems a lot of the time to dismiss him and his life as nothing more than a tragic end.

[Cryogenic]

Yeah... the negativity does my head in sometimes.

Of course, people can believe what they want - on this or ANY issue for that matter - but you'd think that Elvis fans might be a little more open-minded. Yes, it is not totally inconceivable that Elvis killed himself, but when you weigh up all the evidence and consider who he was, it verges so far on the improbable as to be almost impossible. But maybe that's just me and certain others.

[Menwithbrokenhearts]

I am pretty sure, for all the reasons previously listed, that he did not purposefully take his own life. One interesting bit, Linda Thompson has stated that Elvis was allergic, sometimes rather violently to codeine, but would still take it if he couldn't find anything else. Elvis had that prescription from the Dentist for codeine that he had David Stanley fill that night and supposedly took some before retiring. Ginger Alden said he stayed up reading and eventually, several hours later, went to the bathroom to read. Supposedly Elvis' favorite pain killer was Dilauded which has the same numerical strength imprint on the tablet (1,2,3) as Codeine. Is it possible that he mistook the medication and again, took Codeine and had such an adverse reaction that it killed him, not to mention it's interaction with the other medications in his system? Just a theory I read somewhere, can't remember, but seems plausible. Linda is a pretty credible witness.

[Cryogenic]

I've heard of this before.

I wish Captain El were here. I'm pretty sure he mentioned that and supported it. If so, that's what I believe (that's the level of trust and respect I place in him).

It's pretty shocking to think - if what you've said is true - that Elvis deliberately took codeine on occasions with the full knowledge that he was allergic to it! In fact, I really struggle to believe that. It seems too outrageous - even for him. But IF true... boy, that demonstrates he was on the path to self-destruction like no other.

[Cherokee]

I've heard of this before.

I wish Captain El were here. I'm pretty sure he mentioned that and supported it. If so, that's what I believe (that's the level of trust and respect I place in him).

It's pretty shocking to think - if what you've said is true - that Elvis deliberately took codeine on occasions with the full knowledge that he was allergic to it! In fact, I really struggle to believe that. It seems too outrageous - even for him. But IF true... boy, that demonstrates he was on the path to self-destruction like no other.

Well, in that same line of thinking, was it ever proven true or false what some claimed i.e. that he would intentionally hurt himself (make wounds) so that the doctor he'd go see would have no choice but the prescribe some medication to him? If that is true, than surely his taking codeine for the effect, despite knowing he was allergic to it, would fit:hmm:

[0349054]

Elvis used to play doctors. He knew medication inside out and what ones worked with what other ones to get the effect he wanted. He would go to one doctor with some problem, play up the symptoms and get a prescription. Then he'd go to another doctor with more symptoms of a different problem and get the other prescription.

The 24 hour pharamacy at Baptist Memorial used to refuse to fill some of his prescriptions as in some cases the week before soemone would have been in with a huge prescription for him, and it was literally illegal to keep filling these things.

I don't think he killed himself. None of the doctors have hinted that he had enough drugs in himself to show that he intentionally killed himself. I believe they contributed to his death as did his life style, but Elvis also had coronory heart disease according to some of the doctors present at his autopsy. He was self-destructive, but he in my opinion was not capable of killing himself, although I don't question his depression.

[KPM]

The story about the self infliction (on his the toe) once again comes form Lamar.
If you've ever had an ingrown toenail and worked on it yourself you know how it hurts. So if the story is absolutly 100% true (anything from Lamar I figure has got to be 50% imbellishment to further whatever his Elvis project is at the time ) he suddenly says Elvis purposely was trying to use it for drugs, from a statement which could have been just a joke. I mean if we are willing to consider he may have commited suicide, I think we could go ya, maybe it was a joke among what he thought were friends. How many of you have made a statement on a questionalble subject, but you were just kidding around.(well lets hope your friends don't decide to write a book about you if you are ever famous) Its a shame Elvis gave so much in a million ways to the world, but his memory will forever be shadowed by accusations form every corner on every absurd subject. When Dee Stanley made the" Elvis slept with his mother"I thought there can't be much left to accuse him of. But I am constantly surprised. The guys who write these books were very close to Elvis, but that does not always translate to truthful, nor reliable. As long as a new book, or video is on their agenda every few years new "REVELATIONS" will come forward. This latest suicide theory from David Stanley is one he ran up the flag pole once before when he was promoting his book which purported to tell you everything there was to know about him. Now he has a book and screen play "The Headhunter" about his years as bodyguard. Its just sickening.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

It amazes me how people seem to want to look for whatever the worst scenario for every situation in his life.


Yeah... the negativity does my head in sometimes.
Of course, people can believe what they want - on this or ANY issue for that matter - but you'd think that Elvis fans might be a little more open-minded.

Perhaps you have misunderstood the point of the thread then! The thread question was put out there for people to comment on something that is a current topic discussed by those who new Elvis. IT IS NOT A FACT, it is pure speculation as with 90% of Elvis' private life. My credentials as an Elvis fan will not be questioned because you don't like the topic or comments made; I spend many hours a week promoting Elvis through my site and this forum.

Discussion opens boundaries and different opinions, some might not like what is being said, this does not mean what is being discussed is off limits within a reason; otherwise I would have joined the Presleyterians long ago and had my brain removed.

[KPM]

You are right, and my opinion is that this type discussion is, perhaps interesting to some, but fruitless and done to death. Since as you said your credentials as an Elvis fan will not be questioned I will tell you that was not my intention in any way shape or form. But as you said 90% of Elvis's private life is absolute conjecture even by the so-called insiders who state they were there and they would not lie to us to sell a product that they benefit financially from. 28 years and new and more startling revelations every time someone needs money-their memorys must really be bad. Its frustrating. I also did not have my brain removed (if you were questioning my sanity or my ability for rational thought on this subject.) I just think its done to death and when someone who knows little about Elvis stumbles on to these type rumors it does not add anything to who he was-it detracts from who he was and how he is perceived. I'm not trying to argue pal, its just a subject I feel strongly about. No offense meant.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I agree that there are many subjects that have been done to death, after 28 years there is little to discuss that is new and basically the same old stories are rehashed over and over again. I have been on this board over 18 months and have never seen this topic covered.

There are new fans who visit this board and this topic as contentious as it is is new to them and casts a new perspective on an area that they may have not considered!

There is no implication here but I get frustrated that people elevate Elvis to some demi god like status and have a polarized image that cannot be shaken, some fans still will not come to terms that Elvis took drugs (be it prescribed) for personal use.

The man is a legend and despite the ups and downs is as popular today as he was 40 years ago, but if we as fans can't have a frank and open discussion then I don't know who can. I could understand your point of view if the discussion was being argued by some ignoramus.

The fact that people get heated about this topic or Elvis In general is a good thing, It means that people care.

Elvis was a human being with all the faults and talents that can be given to any one human being. I'm not knocking Elvis, i know for a fact that in his circumstances I don't think I would have reached 25 let alone 42

[KPM]

I agree totally about the demi-god type fan. I am not that type of fan and think those type are blessedly naive. I wonder though, where the topics (which lets face it are spawned by the new books each year purporting to tell the whole truth again) will they end. That is my gripe, not at his forum, or anyone involved here personally " it is at the money machine driven books".Like I said the Dee Stanley story, which no publisher would touch, was I thought as bad as it could be. What possibly can they come up with to sell the next one? I think more than anything it is the constant book after book after book that can not be verified, but in a lot of the publics perception -I stress public- are taken as gospel. I did not think you were knocking Elvis and know he was a very flawed man I have been a fan 40 years saw him once in 76, and live up river about 200 miles from Graceland. I have read everything I could about him and take it all (good or bad) with a grain of salt-no matter if its his ex-wife or yardman. You've got to admit though that year after year the bad gets worse(true or not), and the good gets obsured. By the time I'm sixty he will be the anti-christ in some new book by some one connected to Elvis's son.(I mean that as a joke at least I hope)and will have kicked dogs and stole candy from orphans.(another joke)

[Cryogenic]

Hey JJ, why so down?

It just struck me that you were actually being a little unfair to essentially say, "oh, heck, it could have been suicide", in light of a mountain of contradicting issues and circumstances. Certainly, Elvis had psychological problems, but a lot of peripheral details (playing racquetball, enthusiasm for next tour, getting a tooth filled, Lisa in the house etc) point away from suicide. But you're right: we aren't privvy to the facts and can only posit opinions. I guess it cut through me - as my reaction evidently cut through you - that you were suggesting that that might have been the cause when a certain Stanley, known for all-round-scuminess, is saying categorically that it was. Sorry about that.

I actually think it was me picturing Albert's post in this thread - http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread.php?t=5831 (last post) - that triggered my response in here. But that's academic.


My credentials as an Elvis fan will not be questioned because you don't like the topic or comments made; I spend many hours a week promoting Elvis through my site and this forum.

I was never questioning your "credentials".

Hopefully, we can remain civil and friendly towards one another. You've clearly strived hard to keep this board free of bickering and slander. I certainly appreciate this place. (y)

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I don't disagree with the fact that Dee & David Stanley are without doubt some of the lowest people on the Elvis food chain who are limpets on the Elvis gravy train; quite frankly I don't give one Iota for their scribing! That said doesn't mean any topic should be off limits within reason, once we start censorship of such topics we narrow our horizons and become "Those Nutty Fans Who are Blinkered" (not directed at anyone specifically).

When a conversation arises with co-workers that starts down the road of "He was fat and wore Jumpsuits and eat hamburgers" I usually start with "Clever people have usually got past these stereotypes". Thankfully there is one area we can disagree on despite the ramblings of the Stanley's the younger generation (18-25 age group) have not been subject to Albert Goldman and Hopkins sensationalist books, they have been presented with a fresh perspective over the last couple of years which has cut through the crap and given them a more positive view of his legacy. For me it's the 30 something?s whom wish to persist with the negativity that the tabloid trash has constantly feed them.

I find these kind of intense topics more illuminating than ones such as "which is you favorite record, etc".



It just struck me that you were actually being a little unfair to essentially say, "oh, heck, it could have been suicide".

I would never be that flippant about a subject covering suicide, it is a valid comment based around possibilities, not fact!

The fact that there are so many diverse opinions and subjects surrounding Elvis adds to the Enigma that is Elvis Presley, my intension is never to denigrate his life because I AM A FAN.

So let?s all have a group hug and kiss and make up :P

P.S. the vote at the top of the page clearly indicates a split between those who think that suicide was a possibility :hmm:

[Captain Elwood David]

I've heard of this before.

I wish Captain El were here. I'm pretty sure he mentioned that and supported it. If so, that's what I believe (that's the level of trust and respect I place in him).

It's pretty shocking to think - if what you've said is true - that Elvis deliberately took codeine on occasions with the full knowledge that he was allergic to it! In fact, I really struggle to believe that. It seems too outrageous - even for him. But IF true... boy, that demonstrates he was on the path to self-destruction like no other.

First off, thanks to "Cryo" for your words, ..... and my respect in return.

---------------------------------------------

For those who asked, I will post this one time response on this thread:

It is indeed known what transpired that fateful August 16th day, 28 years ago. All of the evidence (forensic & autopsy) are FACTS - not speculation. We will, however, have to wait another 22 years for the report to be OFFICIALLY released; even that, however, will not put to rest the misconceptions that have been perpetuated over & over again thru the years. Given enough time (and enough re-writes) REALITY can eventually be replaced by MYTH.

Notions of EP commiting suicide are just that - MYTH.

---------------------------------------------

EP did not commit suicide, in the traditional sense of the word & all the negative connotations that accompany such terminology.

Even those that were there are not always correct and keep in mind that memories fade and story lines can change & grow ........... with time (& imagination, for various reasons). ;)

EP was more than likely too keyed up (as he always was prior to a tour) that fateful day and simply took too much of the wrong stuff - combined - resulting in his CNS (central nervous system) shutting down in a sudden violent death spasm. Notice the emphasis in bold, because it was truly accidental polypharmacy (or even accidental / negligent homicide, depending on how one views things. Too many licensed sources supplying too much while being unaware of what each other was doing, including EP himself). In essense, the argument could be made that EP commited "accidental suicide", but that would be oxy*****ic in the truest sense of the word. You can only take it so far as to say that EP died secondary to terminal apathy & being in denial about his addictions.

EP was a medical addict and shares equal responsibility / blame along with the numerous health professionals that accommodated him over the years. It is very important to stress the term medical addict over the more pejorative term "drug addict" that is commonly used. Keep in mind that EP had a very real PHYSICAL (ie: PHYSIOLOGICAL) NEED for the barbiturates at that point in his life. He would not have been able to surmount his addictions alone, without professional help & hospitilization. Unfortunately, he was in complete denial and unable to face or admit it.

EP maintained his own "supplements" to add to what was usually given to him in a controlled manner (via the on-site nurse charged with dispensing his usual narcotics). The levels of codiene alone were enough to kill him by inducing respiratory depression. The primary offender, however, was methaqualone (ie: quaalude). The combination was indeed a lethal brew.

(Yet another MYTH is that EP was well-versed with PDR's (Physician Desk References). A more accurate way to state it is ---------> EP was well-read on the topic of PDR's, but ............... a true understanding of pharmacology (& physiology) is not as simple as merely reading a PDR).

The moment of death was quick, but, unfortunately, not a painless one for our hero. And yes, .... EP was indeed on the "loo" when it happened. In fact, this is one reason that the cover story was put out that Joe Esposito found EP in his bed (to spare EP his dignity, as well Alden). One cannot blame Joe, he was merely TCB'ing (no pun intended) as he was expected & supposed to unders such circumstances.

August 16th, 1977, was EP's delayed rendezvous with destiny; it had been averted a number of times in the past, but none of the usual players were in place this time to challenge fate.

So, yes, EP killed himself in the sense that "those who are unable to be counselled, cannot be helped." It was, however, an unintentional overdose.

Francisco's cover story of "cardiac arrhythmia" is semantic world play dancing around the true cause (in common parlance - professional bull-sh**). It was done to dupe an ignorant public, and for the most part is still doing so today.

---------------------------------------------

I hope this helps & answers your question(s), "Cryo."

---------------------------------------------

By the way, ... one final note.

IMO, the above POLL & results can be viewed in one of two ways:

1. Pessimist's view ----> almost half of the respondents can more than likely be classified as duped ....... or ........ "fissured ceramics."

2. Optimist's view ----> more than half of the respondents are capable of critical thinking.

I think both are true.


Capt. "EL." / N880EP
... just a fan ....


PS - To address the codeine allergy discussion: According to Linda Thompson, EP had occasional reactions to codeine. According to Marthy Lacker, EP took the stuff all the time and even had a pet name for it - "EC" ----> Empirin with Codeine). As is usually the case when different versions of the same story exist ----> both have elements of TRUTH within. In all likelyhood, EP was allergic to specific ingredients / chemicals when used in combination with codeine.

[0349054]

Hey Captain,

Great post. I really hope you stick around.

Cheers

[Menwithbrokenhearts]

[

Capt. "EL." / N880EP
... just a fan ....


PS - To address the codeine allergy discussion: According to Linda Thompson, EP had occasional reactions to codeine. According to Marthy Lacker, EP took the stuff all the time and even had a pet name for it - "EC" ----> Empirin with Codeine). As is usually the case when different versions of the same story exist ----> both have elements of TRUTH within. In all likelyhood, EP was allergic to specific ingredients / chemicals when used in combination with codeine.[/QUOTE]

Wow! That was a great post. (y) I should have talked to you before dredging through the entire book "Death of Elvis" by the way, what do you think of that book and the conclusions drawn?

Also, thanks for clearing up the codeine issue for me, and so much others. Very well written. Have you ever thought of writing a book or article on the subject, or any other Elvis related?

thanks again
charles

[KPM]

I have to second the facts by Elwood. They are there and it will be 22 years before they will be released. I have read accounts by people who supposedly have got copys of the autopsy report that list polypharmacy as cause of death. But also the opposite by others who say they have got the official report and it does not list it as the cause of death. Anything can be forged in this age of computers and printers which make it so so easy. In 22 years the truth will be known(I assume I wil not because I am a little older)

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

By the way, ... one final note.

IMO, the above POLL & results can be viewed in one of two ways:

1. Pessimist's view ----> almost half of the respondents can more than likely be classified as duped ....... or ........ "fissured ceramics." :lmfao:

2. Optimist's view ----> more than half of the respondents are capable of critical thinking.

I think both are true.


Capt. "EL." / N880EP

Oh how I have missed your fantastic repartee, the crack pots is a classic :notworthy

So.......... to sum it up then:-

pessimist's (Those who voted Possibly) - Crack Pots

Optimist's (Those who voted Never) - Critical Thinkers

Lets close the thread now ;)

[Cryogenic]

Fascinating thoughts, Captain El!

Like an almighty tremor come to knock down a sea of decrepit buildings, Captain El came and obliterated all the mythologising and naysaying with a post that cut to the heart of the issue. To the heart... hmmm... no pun intended. ;)


First off, thanks to "Cryo" for your words, ..... and my respect in return.

It was good to hear off of you one more time.


I hope this helps & answers your question(s), "Cryo."

Yes, it most certainly did! Many thanks. :notworthy

On a more superificial note, I finally realised what "fissured ceramics" means! ROFL. I'll be sure to work that phrase into an English essay or two.

Again, thanks and... May the Force be with you!

[Captain Elwood David]

Again, thanks and... May the Force be with you!

The FORCE is very strong in you, "Cryo". ;)

"Yes, strong, I feel, it is." :lol:

------------------------------------------

Seriously, ............. you're very welcome.

-------------------------------------------

My best to all.


Capt. "YODA"
... somewhere in a galaxy, far, far, away ....

[dannyboy1]

Sorry JJ, I would never consider myself a crackpot. There's a distinction that needs to be drawn here, since the poll question is vague.

COULD ELVIS HAVE OVERDOSED ACCIDENTALLY? Absolutely. He was very careless of many things in life. It doesn't make me a crackpot to acknowledge that fact.

DID HE OVERDOSE ON PURPOSE (in other words SUICIDE)? Definately not. For all the good reasons stated by contributors in other posts.

Facing facts does not make me a crackpot.:mad:

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Sorry JJ, I would never consider myself a crackpot. There's a distinction that needs to be drawn here, since the poll question is vague.

COULD ELVIS HAVE OVERDOSED ACCIDENTALLY? Absolutely. He was very careless of many things in life. It doesn't make me a crackpot to acknowledge that fact.

DID HE OVERDOSE ON PURPOSE (in other words SUICIDE)? Definately not. For all the good reasons stated by contributors in other posts.

Facing facts does not make me a crackpot.:mad:

Dannyboy my intention is not to upset anyone, it was to clarify captain marvel's comments from the above, I was just chalenging the extrapalated logic of his statement, which basically says this! If you don't agree with him you are a crackpot. Hope this clears the matter up.

JJ

[Captain Elwood David]

Dannyboy my intention is not to upset anyone, it was to clarify captain marvel's comments from the above, I was just chalenging the extrapalated logic of his statement, which basically says this! If you don't agree with him you are a crackpot. Hope this clears the matter up.

JJ

You are going to have to go back a re- "extrapalate" (sic) again, because ............. that is what Y-O-U said, not I.

My words:

Pessimist's view ----> almost half of the respondents can more than likely be classified as duped ....... or ........ "fissured ceramics."


Whichever fits. ;)


- Billy Batson
.... S-H-A-Z-A-M !! ....

PS - Ad Hominem is fine, just so long as one is sure to address the argument / FACTS as well.
.... tick-tock ................ tick-tock ............... tick-tock ................

[Cryogenic]

Ah! I enjoy all these post-signature references. One never knows what they're gonna get next! :D

I do have a couple of ADDITIONAL questions, actually... :P Some people are gonna get mighty shitty - I mean, shifty - hearing the first one (sensitive types.... hush, I've warned you...)...

1) What is your take on Elvis on the toilet? Did he have colon/bowel problems that were causing nasty problems? I've heard a lot of myth-making in this respect: accounts of twisted colons, colons with birth defects and colons filled with more "clay-like" matter than seems possible. There are some bizarre "facts" out there that confuse and annoy the hell out of me. Any clarification/insight would be appreciated.

2) What book/magazine/material was Elvis reading that fateful hour? Was it "The Scientific Search For The Face Of Jesus" or was that merely more TCB-ing by Joe Esposito et al?

[Captain Elwood David]

I do have a couple of ADDITIONAL questions, ...

1) What is your take on Elvis on the toilet? Did he have colon/bowel problems that were causing nasty problems? I've heard a lot of myth-making in this respect: accounts of twisted colons, colons with birth defects and colons filled with more "clay-like" matter than seems possible. There are some bizarre "facts" out there that confuse and annoy the hell out of me. Any clarification/insight would be appreciated.

"Cryo",

I will answer these questions simply because it is you who is asking ......

EP had chronic bowel (colon) problems secondary to his long-term medication use / abuse. Opioids inhibit bowel motility (ie: cause constipation). Congenital problems may have also contributed, but IMO are more than likely a distractor story.


2) What book/magazine/material was Elvis reading that fateful hour? Was it "The Scientific Search For The Face Of Jesus" or was that merely more TCB-ing by Joe Esposito et al?

Esposito & Alden are both correct. EP had "Psychic Energy" (New Age esoterica book, not porn) in bed, read for hours that morning, & carried into the bathroom. Was found, however, with "Shroud of Turin" in his hand.

--------------------

Force is very strong in you "Cryo", very strong, indeed. ;)

--------------------

I'm afraid I have already broken my promise not to add any further comments to this thread. :D Ooops!

To sum up: There is no controversy here folks, .......... at least not for the well-informed & critical thinkers.

Capt. "EL." / N880EP
... just a helpful fan ....

[Cryogenic]

In the words of a certain sideburned guy...

Fantastic. Thank you very much!

Now, I will leave this thread be. I have Jedi duties to attend to... ;)

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

[Mr. Marvel=quote] You are going to have to go back a re- "extrapolate" (sic) again, because ............. that is what Y-O-U said, not I. [quote/]

Oh how I love to cut and past away, I have really missed the reinterpretation games even though they are just semantics, the original comments you made were rhetorical ones. I think there is little doubt what the inference was with the voting analysis although there was a get out of jail card attached.

To address the Ad Hominem comment, I addressed the comments In an earlier post; there is no personal attack on your good self only an extrapolated logic of your statement. I later may have been a little fallacious (please forgive me I was a little tired getting up for work:blush: ).

If I may be able to ask a question :hmm: ?????.. Can you explain your comments to a simpleton like me? Because my simple mind leads me to places it shouldn?t. Are the critical thinkers those that voted ?never? and what did you vote?

Answers on a post card folks?????

Click????? Click............... Click............... Click (Metronome:D )

Yours sincerely,


Lex Luther :lol:

[Captain Elwood David]

[Mr. Marvel=quote] You are going to have to go back a re- "extrapolate" (sic) again, because ............. that is what Y-O-U said, not I. [quote/]

Oh how I love to cut and past away, I have really missed the reinterpretation games even though they are just semantics, the original comments you made were rhetorical ones. I think there is little doubt what the inference was with the voting analysis although there was a get out of jail card attached.

To address the Ad Hominem comment, I addressed the comments In an earlier post; there is no personal attack on your good self only an extrapolated logic of your statement. I later may have been a little fallacious (please forgive me I was a little tired getting up for work:blush: ).

If I may be able to ask a question :hmm: …………….. Can you explain your comments to a simpleton like me? Because my simple mind leads me to places it shouldn’t. Are the critical thinkers those that voted “never” and what did you vote?

Answers on a post card folks……………

Click…………… Click............... Click............... Click (Metronome:D )

Yours sincerely,


Lex Luther :lol:

Snap - just a Kodak moment, for posterity and all.

-----------------------------------------------------------

It's been fun playing with you JJ, but .......... gotta run now.

Good thread, though, ...... seriously. ( ... please extrapolate your own conclusions, accordingly ....)

-----------------------------------------------------------


Capt. "EL." / N880EP
... just a humble, helpful fan ....


PS - Btw, ........ JJ .............. Lex Luthor was generally known as Superman's nemesis, not Capt. Marvel's.

(Just wanted to point out that additional piece of fallaciousness to you, although there is more in your above post.) ;)

Have a good one.

[Captain Elwood David]

Wow! That was a great post. (y) I should have talked to you before dredging through the entire book "Death of Elvis" by the way, what do you think of that book and the conclusions drawn?

Also, thanks for clearing up the codeine issue for me, and so much others. Very well written. Have you ever thought of writing a book or article on the subject, or any other Elvis related?

thanks again
charles

Greetings Charles,

Thank you for your kind words.

-----------------------------------------------------

Thompson & Cole's "The Death of Elvis" is - IMO - essential reading for any hardcore fan.

Both authors and their book would also be essential references to consult for any future tome that might re-examine the issue.

That said, .... the book does have some errors, but no book is ever really truly perfect. The authors did an outstanding job and are to be commended for their courage & efforts to publish on the topic. It is the only reputable book to ever attempt to even address the subject.

Recommended reading, but not for the faint hearted (or those too attached to their rose-colored glasses - of which there is many in the fandom).

--------------------------------------------------

There is much more I could add to this thread & topic. I have indeed entertained the idea of a book and am also open to consulting with other reputable authors on the right project.

Perhaps another story, for another day ............. on multiple levels.


Capt. "EL." / N880EP
... just a fan ....

Take care.

[Tommy]

I don't think anyone will ever really know what happened I don't care how many books whoever writes. Only those really close to Elvis that day know for sure. It's over and a sad thing all those years ago. We should all move on to happier times.

Tommy :)

[Captain Elwood David]

Umm, "Tommy", ....... I already knew you weren't interested (although I do wonder why you are posting on this thread, then ..) .............. ;)

But, ....... HEY!, ......... are you by chance a baseball fan ??


I don't think anyone will ever really know what happened .....
Tommy :)

Strike ONE !!


I don't care how many books whoever writes ......
Tommy :)

Strike TWO !!


Only those really close to Elvis that day know for sure.
Tommy :)

Strike THREE !!

You're Out.

------------------------------------------------------


It's over and a sad thing all those years ago. We should all move on to happier times.

Tommy :)

Just a gentle reminder from my words in posts above (regarding books on this subject):

Recommended reading, but not for the faint hearted (or those too attached to their rose-colored glasses - of which there is many in the fandom).

-------------------------------------------------------

But, one more HEY !! ...........


Thank you for thoughts & words and contributions to this thread. :clap: :clap: :clap:
It is really, really, really a wonderful thing that we can all share opinions together amongst friends. :king: :king:

I look forward to reading many, many more of your posts now and in the future. (y) (y)

YOU TAKE CARE NOW, OK ............. BUDDY !! :cool: :cool:



Capt. "EL." / N880EP
... :D :D ....

PS - Oh, here are a few more that I didn't have a chance to use yet -------> ...... :P ........ ;) ........ :blink: ......... :!:

[0349054]

The facts so to speak lol are;

Doctor Francisco is a respected member of the medical community and we have no reason to believe he reported anything but the truth. The law forbids Baptist Memorial from releasing the autopsy report without the consent of the nearest relative. Ethics prevent the staff from talking about it to any great detail openly. The autopsy report is in the possession of the Estate and could be released by them before it is made public in 2027 if they so wished.

The conclusion can be that Doctor Francisco and some of the staff at Baptist Memorial had a difference of opinion. Forensic pathology and toxicology are not the exact science we believe them to be.

There are however, too many reports of differences of opinions between the Medical Examiners and Baptist Memorial Hospital for there to be no truth in them. Were the hospital staff in complete agreement with the report as written by Doctor Francisco, a public statement to the effect would have silenced the controversy. Such a statement would neither have violated the law or their code of ethics.

I think it is fair to assume that if the autopsy report stated unequivocally that drugs were not a contributing factor to his death, and were not present beyond a therapeutic level, Vernon Presley would have had no reason to keep it secret presumabaly. The nature of the drugs under consideration is such that they could have been taken in doses above therapeutic levels regularly without being found had they not been taken within the tweleve to twenty-four period before death. Alas, we know from the medication 'hits' Elvis recieved that night that this is not the case.

Most of the drugs used by Elvis were prescribed. Probabaly some cocaine was used, but to no great extent or it would have been evident in the autopsy and would probabaly have leaked out in some form or another that ilegal 'street' drugs were found in him. The Medical Examiners report does not state that drugs were never used, only that they were not found beyond therapeutic levels, and they did not significantly contribute to death.

Part of the conclusion could be that no hard or illicit drugs were used except the possible use of cocaine, as is testimony from many who were around him, and the definite abuse of prescription medication.

Drugs did contribute to Elvis' death, either by affecting his heart, if reports by Baptist Memorial are to be believed or at the very least, by keeping him from being sufficiently concerned about his general diet and health.

[Captain Elwood David]

I do very much appreciate your substantive post "03 .."

Will try to quickly address off the top of my head:


Doctor Francisco is a respected member of the medical community and we have no reason to believe he reported anything but the truth. The law forbids Baptist Memorial from releasing the autopsy report without the consent of the nearest relative. Ethics prevent the staff from talking about it to any great detail openly. The autopsy report is in the possession of the Estate and could be released by them before it is made public in 2027 if they so wished.


Francisco is technically correct, but his diagnosis is also technically meaningless. In fact, is has been a long-standing running joke within the medical community of Memphis / BMH.


The conclusion can be that Doctor Francisco and some of the staff at Baptist Memorial had a difference of opinion. Forensic pathology and toxicology are not the exact science we believe them to be.


Francisco was never an "Official" member of the "Autopsy Team", yet went ahead with his public diagnosis without the consent of the other members who conducted the autopsy AND before the autopsy itself was even completed.

Certain aspects of Pathology / Forensics / Toxicology are very exact, ............ & certain areas are indeed not.

That said, ............. BMH Autopsy Members have NEVER agreed with Francisco's pronouncement.


There are however, too many reports of differences of opinions between the Medical Examiners and Baptist Memorial Hospital for there to be no truth in them. Were the hospital staff in complete agreement with the report as written by Doctor Francisco, a public statement to the effect would have silenced the controversy. Such a statement would neither have violated the law or their code of ethics.


Chief of Pathology and official autopsy member Dr. Muirhead stated in 1991 that he did not agree with Francisco and further added that Francisco agreed with the rest of team (cause: polypharmacy) .......... but then held a press conference & announced the "heart disease" angle.


I think it is fair to assume that if the autopsy report stated unequivocally that drugs were not a contributing factor to his death, and were not present beyond a therapeutic level, Vernon Presley would have had no reason to keep it secret presumabaly. The nature of the drugs under consideration is such that they could have been taken in doses above therapeutic levels regularly without being found had they not been taken within the tweleve to twenty-four period before death. Alas, we know from the medication 'hits' Elvis recieved that night that this is not the case.


Taken singularly, most of the drugs were indeed with therapeutic range, with the exception of a couple (I've already mentioned).

Collectively, however, .......... it is entirely consistent with a drug death (& so are the details @ the death scene / how EP was found). I have also already mentioned the principal offender.


Most of the drugs used by Elvis were prescribed. Probabaly some cocaine was used, but to no great extent or it would have been evident in the autopsy and would probabaly have leaked out in some form or another that ilegal 'street' drugs were found in him. The Medical Examiners report does not state that drugs were never used, only that they were not found beyond therapeutic levels, and they did not significantly contribute to death.


Reports of cocaine use (more specifically, being found @ autopsy) are erroneous.

Francisco's ME report is professional white-wash.


Part of the conclusion could be that no hard or illicit drugs were used except the possible use of cocaine, as is testimony from many who were around him, and the definite abuse of prescription medication.


All drugs were indeed legally prescribed by physicians.

Taken collectively, ................ the lethal brew was simply incredible.


Drugs did contribute to Elvis' death, either by affecting his heart, if reports by Baptist Memorial are to be believed or at the very least, by keeping him from being sufficiently concerned about his general diet and health.


Polypharmacy is exactly what the autopsy report shows. Wait another 22 years and you will hear it again.

-----------------------------------------

Once again, I hope this has been helpful.


Capt. "EL." / N880EP
... just a fan ....

[0349054]

Thanks for the reply Captain.

I have to agree with you on all your points. As for the cocaine use, I am quite confident that Elvis used, probabaly not before he died, but that he did use a fair bit. Several of the guys around him have told me that, some of them have said they even did with him at times. I don't think they had anything to gain from saying something like that Do you believe he used it? Some of the guys reckon he started to use on a more consistent basis from 75' on.....?

Thanks for the informative reply on the last one though. Hope ya stick around.

[Captain Elwood David]

Thanks for the reply Captain.

I have to agree with you on all your points. As for the cocaine use, I am quite confident that Elvis used, probabaly not before he died, but that he did use a fair bit. Several of the guys around him have told me that, some of them have said they even did with him at times. I don't think they had anything to gain from saying something like that Do you believe he used it? Some of the guys reckon he started to use on a more consistent basis from 75' on.....?

Thanks for the informative reply on the last one though. Hope ya stick around.

Thank you "03 .." & you're welcome.

If EP had been a regular user of cocaine, ......... it would have showed & there would be more reports about it by those that were there. He did indeed dabble in the illicit though (eg: LSD ............. supplied by Geller & Friend in the 60's .......... something which Geller denies vehemently, but Lacker swears that's exactly what EP told him himself. I do believe Lacker on this one).

----------------------------------------

As for sticking around ...........

In the words of EP himselvis ...... "When it ceases to be fun ................... "

(You can see the kind of stuff I invariably have to put up with; it also extends to off of the MB as well). ;)

I do appreciate the sentiment, though. Once again, my thanks.


Cappy / N8
... just a fan ....

[Cherokee]

So, simply said he "committed slow suicide by way of lifestyle".......

[Dovey]

No Way!!!! Dovey

[JDD]

The mighty "Headhunter" (spoken with disdain) claimed he did just that on Unsolved Mysteries. I always liked that show and my son gave me a set of them on DVD and was surprised when the first story was David Stanley claiming Elvis killed himself with an intentional over dose . Now I don't know what did or didn't really happen that day ,Stanley himself has told several versions of it, but drugs were obviously related to his situation but the word intentional is the part I question.

[Menwithbrokenhearts]

The mighty "Headhunter" (spoken with disdain) claimed he did just that on Unsolved Mysteries. I always liked that show and my son gave me a set of them on DVD and was surprised when the first story was David Stanley claiming Elvis killed himself with an intentional over dose . Now I don't know what did or didn't really happen that day ,Stanley himself has told several versions of it, but drugs were obviously related to his situation but the word intentional is the part I question.

Well, then David is an accomplice because he brought him the pills that night. :hmm:

anyway, I agree with alot of the above posts that Elvis did not do it on purpose. Not with Lisa in the house and the possibility that she might find him.

[JDD]

Well, then David is an accomplice because he brought him the pills that night. :hmm:

anyway, I agree with alot of the above posts that Elvis did not do it on purpose. Not with Lisa in the house and the possibility that she might find him.



Yep, he said that he brought them to him too and noticed that Elvis hadn't taken his earlier "Pakets" . He's such a story changer that if he said it was daytime I'd walk to a window and look myself.

[rick]

I don't think Elvis' death was intentional. Certainly he unintentionally contributed to his demise but I am confident he believed his use of medication was necessary and legal.
Rick

[TCE]

Maybe Elvis was killed intentionally. We will never know, because the traces that would led to the dicovery of that were clearly erased. One thing I'm sure about Elvis would never ever done it himselve. OK, he was slowly distroying himself, but it can't get into my mind that he suddenly overdosed himself while he was using the medication already for a long time. And why all the mystery around his death? I mean: all the different stories that are told, the deathcetificate that was fooled around with and not honest anymore etc.

Christel (TCE)

[graceland123]

So, simply said he "committed slow suicide by way of lifestyle".......
i accept that cherokee
i tihnk he knew he was slowly killing himself but a conversation that he made went something like
elvis- ive thought about suicide but its wrong, i guess ill just let nature take its course
that tells me that he didnt want to commit suicide but he didnt want to live very long either

[MJ27]

I believe that Elvis' body just shut down after years of abuse and poisoning. The human body is very resilient ,and Elvis maybe could have regained some of his health with a strict diet and exercise ,but he didnt even seem to make the first step. There were toxins going inside his body quicker than his body could get rid of them over a very long time. Even if Elvis didnt consume drugs he probably would have had health problems anyway because the Southern diet is especially bad with most of it containing saturated animal fats.
Its very sad , but I dont think Elvis Presley deliberately killed himself. We will never really know what went through his mind in his final days , but I hope he had some inkling of how much joy and good times he gave to this world ....and still gives!.

[Sammy4Elvis]

I dont think he did, if he did it was accidental,Lisa was there and Elvis was not a selfish man at all and always had others feelings in mind and that would have not been an act of Elvis. He was very unhappy and looking for another direction in life but death im sure was not on the cards!! Its so upsetting to even think about the situation but its an answer we may never know, whatever happened will never change how I and all of you feel, just wish he was here.:'(

God Bless Elvis.x

[MIElvis]

Your poll question says nothing about on purpose, yet your post does. I think it was accidental. But you should have been clearer on your question

[Awickedreigndrop]

When I first got REALLY interested in Elvis, the person behind the music, I once thought that he did do it on purpose too... until I found out the facts. And I agree with the people who said that he wouldn't do it while Lisa was around. And Like most, I think that the people around him could have tried harder to get him to stop. Let him throw his temper tantrum but eventually he would have gotten over it and in the end he would have been thankful that they helped him out... saved his life.

*Sighs* but they didn't and I don't know if I think they really cared about him. Because wouldn't you help someone no matter how mad they got at you?

Well, I don't think that he did it on purpose.

[Londonelvis]

Hi there. :clap:
This is an interesting theory and one, which if you look at it without "fan emotion" is a likely theory.
Elvis's physical decline in the final months was obvious to anyone who has watched his last concerts. Nobody in there right minds would let themselves get the way he became, so maybe he wasn?t in ?a right mind?. :hmm:
I personally would have thought any hypothetical overdose would have been unintentional, but still likely. While we celebrate his work and still bask in the awe of his persona, it is right to question such things. Denial achieves nothing.

:king: Londonelvis:king: - New member just joined today!!:D

[welshelvis]

Hi
I don't think Elvis would have OverDosed intenetionally. The majority of people who die from overdose never have any intention of ending it all. This is what I think, Elvis was suffering from depression, hence the mood swings and possiblely the weight gain, it proberly started at the time of his mothers death (which effected him greatly) and then the two most important people in his life moved out of graceland. With lisa and prescilla living elsewhere didn't help, although he saw Lisa on a regularly basis it was not as good as having her living under the same roof. So I think that the only way Elvis could cope (if this is the right word) was to have his doctor prescribe medication, increase his intake of fatty foods and go on a path of self-destruction, having depression, he proberly felt that he had very little left to live for and generally didn't care about the outcome. From what i've read I would say that Elvis was depressed and either nobody realised it or it was ignored, which resulted in a fatal overdose. This is only my personal thoughts. Elvis will live forever in the music that he left the world. Long Live The King.

[MISSCLAWDY]

Interesting all those different opinions. I think he didnt overdose on purpose like mentioned before by others, like Lisa in the house and the way he was found.
the same thing I think...not on purpose , no way!!!!

[0349054]

Hi there. :clap:
This is an interesting theory and one, which if you look at it without "fan emotion" is a likely theory.
Elvis's physical decline in the final months was obvious to anyone who has watched his last concerts. Nobody in there right minds would let themselves get the way he became, so maybe he wasn?t in ?a right mind?. :hmm:
I personally would have thought any hypothetical overdose would have been unintentional, but still likely. While we celebrate his work and still bask in the awe of his persona, it is right to question such things. Denial achieves nothing.

:king: Londonelvis:king: - New member just joined today!!:D

Hi and Welcome!

It's highly unlikely Elvis would take an overdose with Lisa Marie at Graceland. His health was in freefall for years, as was his use of both prescription and non-prescription drugs.

[EnigmaticSun]

Maybe Elvis was killed intentionally.

Christel (TCE)

A lot smells fishy and I keep finding those names of Colonel Parker and Priscilla. It seems a lot had been arranged for Elvis, taking advantage of his loyal and generous nature, and some people wanted him to do this and not that, if you know what I mean.. the army, Priscilla, the movies, Las Vegas.. the man was strugged in..

But I do think Elvis saw his Creator in time, because God doesn't know any too early or too late. That is a human standard.

Does anyone know if LSD is legal (can't imagine that in the US, although the military might use it)? Would Elvis have been at risk taking illegal drugs? And does the legality of a drug by law mean that it's okay & healthy as opposed to illegal drugs?

I'm familiar with LSA seeds (ipomoea violacea), but it's natural and LSD is synthetic. (Kind of makes your perception a Salvador Dali painting.)

But with or without cocaine or LSD, it doesn't make me like his music less or more. The same goes for the eternal homosexuality-debate. He was a darn fine singer and I will love him.. forever.. for it!

[Donut]

I wrote this same post yesterday but I don?t know where it have gone :hmm: , so I thought to post it again because i think is very intersting.
The following quote is from an interview they did to DR. Durwood Grubbs, a practicing pharmacist from Memphis for more than 40 years for "Elvis by those who knew him well" book.

"If Elvis purposely or otherwise had taken a massive overdose of sedating drugs , which there doesn?t seem to be any evidence of from Bio-Science findings released in october 1977, he would have gone to sleep. He would have been in a dense coma for hours and hours - one that they could have reversed, one that they could have supported him on - and he would have come out of it. Elvis seems to have had a sudden event.
Elvis did not have enough drugs on him to make him sleep. The drug overdose theory just doesn?t fit at all. Of people who die of drug overdoses, there are two types. Some are injecting drugs, and they die very suddenly, usually because they are injecting something that contains foreign material or is contaminated. Some people take too many tranquilizers and it takes hours and hours to die. They are not awake, they are in a deep coma."

So if Elvis took some steps before falling on the floor and then died it means it was a sudden event and he died because it was his time to go wether it was due to his long time addiction to prescription drugs or for his genetical condition. He didn?t take an overdose of tranquilizers because he didn?t fall into a coma and even though they found a lot of different prescription drugs in his body they weren?t in high levels and they didn?t interact between them.He died from a cardiac arrythmia because it was his time.

[Diane]

Bless your heart Donut, this is what I have been saying all along! I read a similar article by another doctor that stated he was surprised with all Elvis' health problems that he wasn't taking more medication than he was.

He was not a person who had good self-control and tended to overdo everything - like a big kid and I agree that he overdid the drugs more often than not in the last couple of years but I will never believe he died of an overdose and certainly not intentionally. He had some genetic health problems of kidneys and/or liver and heart inherited from his mother and compounded it with his eating habits, lifestyle, responsibilities and the drugs his body gave out - period! I can't understand why so many people have to make out more of his death than there was. Too many people thrive on sensationalism I guess - doesn't do a thing for me and obviously not for you either Donut as well as other level headed people out there. Thank god or the world would be nothing more than a constant adolescent bash! Diane

[Dudcowboy_1]

I do not believe Elvis used hard drugs...if he used it he would have white pus in his mouth or around his noise. And he never did.

Now I do believe he use a lot of pain medication because he had a lot of heath problems at the end. With his eyes, back, and etc. But that goes to show you how much he loved his fans. He was in so much pain up on that stage but still poured his heart out on that stage for us.

We love you Elvis!

Tim Dudley

[Dudcowboy_1]

I forgot a lot of things in last post.

His family on his mother side where famous for having heart problems. I believe his mother would have died from these heart problems if her lungs didn't get to her first. Also, that makes me think what happened that night his heart finally gave out and exploded. I think Joe told me he had like 1 to 2 minute to make peace with everything.

As for his bodyguards there are a few that I can type here and I say I don't ever want talk to them. Sonny is one of them. Red his brother wont even talk to him anymore. "Elvis What Happen" was published by a gossip magizen editor I forgot his name. So right there goes and tells yea half the crap in that book is lies. I believe a lot of Elvis problems where from some of the guys on Memphis Mafia and his Step-brother.

Like I said in many post you can tell who LOVED elvis and ones that loved elvis for his money and roof over their heads. Elvis Step-brother said he found Elvis. Which we all know Joe E. did. Elvis I think tell me if I'm wrong wrote David out of the will so he's doing anything right now to give Elvis bad name.

One of the nicest people I've ever met that truely truely loved Elvis was Dick Grob. This man would go to the end of the earth for Elvis. If you get a chance find a copy of his book read it. I bought it and never put it down until I was done...no lie stayed up almost 2 days reading this book.

Love to all,

Tim Dudley

[0349054]

I do not believe Elvis used hard drugs...if he used it he would have white pus in his mouth or around his noise. And he never did.

Now I do believe he use a lot of pain medication because he had a lot of heath problems at the end. With his eyes, back, and etc. But that goes to show you how much he loved his fans. He was in so much pain up on that stage but still poured his heart out on that stage for us.

We love you Elvis!

Tim Dudley

Just had to step in here.

Elvis used hard drugs from time to time. That's fact. He used prescription medication also.

[0349054]

I forgot a lot of things in last post.

His family on his mother side where famous for having heart problems. I believe his mother would have died from these heart problems if her lungs didn't get to her first. Also, that makes me think what happened that night his heart finally gave out and exploded. I think Joe told me he had like 1 to 2 minute to make peace with everything.

As for his bodyguards there are a few that I can type here and I say I don't ever want talk to them. Sonny is one of them. Red his brother wont even talk to him anymore. "Elvis What Happen" was published by a gossip magizen editor I forgot his name. So right there goes and tells yea half the crap in that book is lies. I believe a lot of Elvis problems where from some of the guys on Memphis Mafia and his Step-brother.

Like I said in many post you can tell who LOVED elvis and ones that loved elvis for his money and roof over their heads. Elvis Step-brother said he found Elvis. Which we all know Joe E. did. Elvis I think tell me if I'm wrong wrote David out of the will so he's doing anything right now to give Elvis bad name.

One of the nicest people I've ever met that truely truely loved Elvis was Dick Grob. This man would go to the end of the earth for Elvis. If you get a chance find a copy of his book read it. I bought it and never put it down until I was done...no lie stayed up almost 2 days reading this book.

Love to all,

Tim Dudley

Again -

Elvis's mother died from Cirrhosis of the liver, nothing to do with her lungs.

I am beginning to wonder if you did speak to Joe, because he would never say those things. Elvis was found dead, and according to medical experts dropped dead, he had no time to make peace with anyone. Joe to my knowledge has never suggested Elvis had time to make peace with the world. It was a SUDDEN death.

Elvis What Happened? - Everyone has their own opinions on that book, however if people here are going to be realistic, 50% of it is NOT lies. That book is fairly accurate, just because it doesent sugar coat Elvis does not make it lies. Yes, it does focus more on the sensational, but that's what was intended with it. The book holds more truth than your recent posts here.

Ginger Alden found Elvis not Joe Esposito. David Stanley wasn't included in the will, as no one except Vernon and Lisa were - a whole other story as to why that is.

Dick Grob lied to Elvis about his military experience and wrote a bogus book claiming Ginger Alden called the National Enquirer which she didn't, as a journalist there confirmed it was a male voice who rang.

[meg]

Again -

Elvis's mother died from Cirrhosis of the liver, nothing to do with her lungs.

I am beginning to wonder if you did speak to Joe, because he would never say those things. Elvis was found dead, and according to medical experts dropped dead, he had no time to make peace with anyone. Joe to my knowledge has never suggested Elvis had time to make peace with the world. It was a SUDDEN death.

Elvis What Happened? - Everyone has their own opinions on that book, however if people here are going to be realistic, 50% of it is NOT lies. That book is fairly accurate, just because it doesent sugar coat Elvis does not make it lies. Yes, it does focus more on the sensational, but that's what was intended with it. The book holds more truth than your recent posts here.

Ginger Alden found Elvis not Joe Esposito. David Stanley wasn't included in the will, as no one except Vernon and Lisa were - a whole other story as to why that is.

Dick Grob lied to Elvis about his military experience and wrote a bogus book claiming Ginger Alden called the National Enquirer which she didn't, as a journalist there confirmed it was a male voice who rang.



So it is(y) (y) (y)

[Dudcowboy_1]

hmmmm...will yea I know Elvis did a little of hard drugs. Prisicall said they tired LSD once on that program "Elvis By The Presley's." I never said he didn't do that hard stuff. As for lung thing I met the liver. Sometimes my typo's get the best of me.

as for the death thing I've worked/voluntreed for many years when my grandmother was head of nursing home. I just never once see someone just drop dead in 1 second. It may seem like a second or two but its more like hour. I had man die in my arms my grandpa from horse riding accident. He just didn't have heart attack. He had one fainted then before EMT's got there died. SO DON"T TELL ME IT WAS FAST. Never is.

As for talking to Joe. Don't believe me? http://www.elvisfantasyfest.com/ I believe Joe is some where else this year but we have Jerry coming.

I never once said I knew everything. I'm only 22 years old and I learn more and more about elvis everyday.

Now tell me this? Why do you hide behind numbers not a real name?

Tim Dudley "A Tribute to Elvis Show"
Dudcowboy_1@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/dudcowboy_1/

[meg]

I just never once see someone just drop dead in 1 second. It may seem like a second or two but its more like hour.


Is possible in some seconds:D You have to learn you don?t know that much:doh:

[Dudcowboy_1]

didn't I just say "I don't know everything?" LOL...good lord. LMAO!:D (y) :doh: :notworthy :cursing:

[0349054]

hmmmm...will yea I know Elvis did a little of hard drugs. Prisicall said they tired LSD once on that program "Elvis By The Presley's." I never said he didn't do that hard stuff. As for lung thing I met the liver. Sometimes my typo's get the best of me.

as for the death thing I've worked/voluntreed for many years when my grandmother was head of nursing home. I just never once see someone just drop dead in 1 second. It may seem like a second or two but its more like hour. I had man die in my arms my grandpa from horse riding accident. He just didn't have heart attack. He had one fainted then before EMT's got there died. SO DON"T TELL ME IT WAS FAST. Never is.

As for talking to Joe. Don't believe me? http://www.elvisfantasyfest.com/ I believe Joe is some where else this year but we have Jerry coming.

I never once said I knew everything. I'm only 22 years old and I learn more and more about elvis everyday.

Now tell me this? Why do you hide behind numbers not a real name?

Tim Dudley "A Tribute to Elvis Show"
Dudcowboy_1@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/dudcowboy_1/


Firstly....Priscilla's book or her comments are not exactly a good source for reliable Elvis information. For your information Elvis used other drugs apart from LSD, and trying LSD is not the same as being a continuous user of the drug.

Elvis died within a matter of seconds/minutes. If you want to take it up with a medical professional be my guest, im not going to argue over something like this on an Elvis message board.

As for talking to Joe, I do question he said some of the things you profess, and I will ask him, as I find it highly unlikely.

As far as me telling you things about myself......I don't feel any need. I'm here to discuss Elvis, im not hiding behind anything, I just don't feel the need to share much about myself with strangers.

Get your hands on some of the quality objective material available. Elvis By The Presley's is just a whitewash.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

This post is over a year old and still people are contributing to it :supriced:

I still have thoughts on the subject :P ...........................

Elvis predominently wore the Mexican Sundial Jumpsuit throughout 1977 (non new in 1977 (worn), 2 new in 1976 (Colourful Flame only worn twice!!), 8 new in 1975, 10 new 1974, 17 new in 1973, 14 new in 1972, 13 new in 1971, 13 new in 1970) and the question that springs to mind is; Elvis was the eternal showman there must have come a point in 1976 and 1977 when he had given up or felt he couldn't carry on with the stageware, this just wouldn't be only about the stageware. Elvis' life and state of mind in 1977 was not that of even two years previous, where he seemed to care about his appearance so............... was the end inevitable? Looking with the benefit of hindsight it looks like a slow car crash without any help from those around. Even those who are classed as the good guys and stay true to Elvis' memory don't look good under close inspection.

Matt

[diamond]

didn't I just say "I don't know everything?" LOL...good lord. LMAO!:D (y) :doh: :notworthy :cursing:


I think a certain 22 year old should take note of what people are saying on this thread. After all some people have spent more than 22 years researching what happened on that sad day, and still havent got to the bottom of it.;)

[jak]

Elvis' personal life and final days have been analyzed over and over again countless times.The facts that arise are not always to everyone's liking and this is what causes dissention among the fans.Some fans just wont accept the reality and choose to ignore it.As stated earlier the "What Happened" book isnt a pack of lies and it gives you some insight to Elvis that enables you to see through the image that was so carefully protected over the years.Other books just gloss over the facts because thats what so many fans want.I dont know about Elvis "hard" drug use meaning street drugs.I know the prescription drugs he took were just as powerfull and addictive.Personally I think he basically avoided street drugs because in his mind he could validate the presrciption stuff and that somehow made it right.If i remember correctly it's speculated the moment Elvis went into cardiac arrest he lunged forward and threw his book.Nobody knows how long he survived but from all accounts he expired rapidly thankfully.
Jak

[Dudcowboy_1]

Yea I see what everyone is saying. Just way he came across. And I am sorry to everyone else. But when I read his information he's 22 also. So he knows just about as much as I do.lol

So to everyone else I am sorry if I sounded like butthead. And your right I am takin note and I read more than Elvis By The Presley I have almost every book out from when he was alive tell now.

Well, never know. But in way I do agree on this. I think his time was near. And to me that has be a very scary feeling. As for me talking to Joe and other guys...Go head ask they are my memories and if no one wants to believe thats fine I know the truth(mean if I did meet him or not.)

Take care and God Bless!

Tim Dudley

[0349054]

Yea I see what everyone is saying. Just way he came across. And I am sorry to everyone else. But when I read his information he's 22 also. So he knows just about as much as I do.lol

So to everyone else I am sorry if I sounded like butthead. And your right I am takin note and I read more than Elvis By The Presley I have almost every book out from when he was alive tell now.

Well, never know. But in way I do agree on this. I think his time was near. And to me that has be a very scary feeling. As for me talking to Joe and other guys...Go head ask they are my memories and if no one wants to believe thats fine I know the truth(mean if I did meet him or not.)

Take care and God Bless!

Tim Dudley

Never said you didn't meet them, all im saying is that I find it hard to believe Joe said Elvis had time to make peace with the world before he died.

Apart from that, do a bit more research on Elvis and read everyone's point of view and then come to your own conclusions, but take some advice and don't let a sugar coated commercial image become your perception of reality.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I dont know about Elvis "hard" drug use meaning street drugs.I know the prescription drugs he took were just as powerfull and addictive.Personally I think he basically avoided street drugs because in his mind he could validate the presrciption stuff and that somehow made it right.

I have heard the LSD story before and also about the Army years taking uppers to stay awake etc, I definately believe the comment you made about the distinction of hard and soft drugs in Elvis' mind. Lets be clear drugs are drugs whether for medical or recreational reasons, it's the justification that can get a little skewed. (I know people will be throwing their hands in the air at this point) Initially Elvis would have taken drugs for one condition or another, the body then became dependent and perhaps, just perhaps Elvis liked the side effect of how they made him feel and the continuation thereafter would be justified for ligitimate reasons.

The guys around Elvis even if not complicit in the supply of drugs to Elvis should be ashamed of themselves, they more than anybody else had seen the effect the medication had on him and should have taken affirmative action despite any consequences they thought would result from doing so.

The Book "Elvis What Happend" in my opinion came 3 years too late to make any difference and was done out of spite rather than a wake up call.

JJ

[0349054]

I have heard the LSD story before and also about the Army years taking uppers to stay awake etc, I definately believe the comment you made about the distinction of hard and soft drugs in Elvis' mind. Lets be clear drugs are drugs whether for medical or recreational reasons, it's the justification that can get a little skewed. (I know people will be throwing their hands in the air at this point) Initially Elvis would have taken drugs for one condition or another, the body then became dependent and perhaps, just perhaps Elvis liked the side effect of how they made him feel and the continuation thereafter would be justified for ligitimate reasons.

The guys around Elvis even if not complicit in the supply of drugs to Elvis should be ashamed of themselves, they more than anybody else had seen the effect the medication had on him and should have taken affirmative action despite any consequences they thought would result from doing so.

The Book "Elvis What Happend" in my opinion came 3 years too late to make any difference and was done out of spite rather than a wake up call.

JJ

Very true JJ, although ultimately I feel Elvis needed to help Elvis if anything substantial regarding his drug habit was to happen. At the end of the day it was his responsibility for his health and his life, no one else's.

[jak]

Its easy to blame the guys around Elvis but those guys couldnt stop his drug use.The person afflicted must be willing to help himself first and Elvis just didnt do it.Surely the revenge factor played a role in the releasing of the book but there was no way Elvis could have kept the veil of secrecy around him forever.By the time the book was released the wheels were coming off and he was out of control.
Jak

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Very true JJ, although ultimately I feel Elvis needed to help Elvis if anything substantial regarding his drug habit was to happen. At the end of the day it was his responsibility for his health and his life, no one else's.

I agree that Elvis should have helped 'Elvis' unfortunately Elvis was in denial about his addictions and about whom was in control, the drugs or Elvis! I think in the final analysis Elvis was not in control any longer and those around him could see that but did not force the issue beyond "Look Elvis this stuff is bad for you" it would of took something on the scale of "Elvis What Happend" to create the level of realisation Elvis needed.

JJ

[diamond]

All I know is ...a very well known music legend has helped two of our modern day pop stars get off drugs. In fact if I am not mistaken one of them was virtually kidnapped and put into rehab by that same person. As for Elvis having to want to get off drugs himself before he could be helped......rubbish......he COULDNT help himself therefore someone should of stepped in........the hangers on should of admitted him to hospital to get straight, maybe that way we wouldnt have to listen to them bragging about what they did and didnt do for him. In my opinion they closed their eyes to the fact he mishandled his prescription drug intake and should hang their heads in shame and not go around their daily business classing themselves as ''friends'' of Elvis when in fact they were his worst enemy:angry:

[0349054]

All I know is ...a very well known music legend has helped two of our modern day pop stars get off drugs. In fact if I am not mistaken one of them was virtually kidnapped and put into rehab by that same person. As for Elvis having to want to get off drugs himself before he could be helped......rubbish......he COULDNT help himself therefore someone should of stepped in........the hangers on should of admitted him to hospital to get straight, maybe that way we wouldnt have to listen to them bragging about what they did and didnt do for him. In my opinion they closed their eyes to the fact he mishandled his prescription drug intake and should hang their heads in shame and not go around their daily business classing themselves as ''friends'' of Elvis when in fact they were his worst enemy:angry:

Okay....im not disagreeing, but they can't make him go to hospital.

Only Vernon could have had him kept in there against his will and don't forget this is Elvis Presley, he didn't do things he didn't want to.

[diamond]

I value your opinion but on this one I think we will just have to agree to disagree;)

[EnigmaticSun]

I just have this suspicion "Elvis: What Happened" wasn't written to 'help' Elvis. If you know something about this or that person, keep it to yourself and say it to the particular person in his or her face if necessary. Don't waste energy on tabloids; it's not only trying to hurt the person you're writing about, but his loved ones too.

Yeah, Elvis was a king with strengths and weaknesses. Just let him rest in peace for crying out loud.

Who would want a book to be written about him or herself, questioning and publishing your darkest secrets, making it available for the mass media and public? Would it really help you?

Help your brother along the way, no matter where he starts. For the same God that made you, made him too.

[jak]

It's hard to tell if that book could have had a positive effect on Elvis in the long term.I think it might have.Elvis had such a carefully constructed image built around him it gave him the oppurtunity to lead a double life.I still know fans who have a hard time accepting the fact he swore profusely.That's how effective that shield around him was.Maybe if he was scrutinized more back then he would have been forced to alter his lifestyle somewhat.I honestly think if Elvis would have walked out to half empty arena's during the dreadfull summer of 76 tour's he would have gotten a wakeup call.No matter how bad the shows got he still soldout and the fans still screamed.Maybe the shock of the fans demanding more might have helped.
Jak

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

It's hard to tell if that book could have had a positive effect on Elvis in the long term.I think it might have.Elvis had such a carefully constructed image built around him it gave him the oppurtunity to lead a double life.I still know fans who have a hard time accepting the fact he swore profusely.That's how effective that shield around him was.Maybe if he was scrutinized more back then he would have been forced to alter his lifestyle somewhat.I honestly think if Elvis would have walked out to half empty arena's during the dreadfull summer of 76 tour's he would have gotten a wakeup call.No matter how bad the shows got he still soldout and the fans still screamed.Maybe the shock of the fans demanding more might have helped.
Jak

I agree about the poor performances and the fact the fans still came to see the King, but given the opportunity to see the worst show ever!! I would sell a kidney.

We all know Elvis wasn't a saint :supriced: he was a performer and kept his private life private, not like these modern day wonabees.

I believe "Elvis What Happend" shortened his life, the stress and worry was huge, it wasn't the wake up call Elvis needed in 1977 as I mentioned earlier 1974-75 would have been a better time for some-one to step in.

JJ

[EnigmaticSun]

the stress and worry was huge, it wasn't the wake up call Elvis needed

Yeah indeed, how would you feel being scrutinized, Jak?

[jak]

Yeah indeed, how would you feel being scrutinized, Jak?

That's the price you pay for being in the public spotlight.However Elvis got a free pass in that dept.Up until the book none of Elvis bizarre and erratic behavior was out in the open.Those of you who were fans back then know what Im talking about.Elvis was basically considered a saint.Knowing what we know now its incredible Elvis was able to maintain that image.In his own way I kInda think even he believed it.Listen to some of the onstage rants he gave about the fact he had never been "strungout" in his entire life.Elvis lived in a carefully constructed fantasy world where he was the supreme ruler who could do no wrong.In the end all this caught up with him.
Jak

[EnigmaticSun]

So was Elvis a bad guy or do you really think being famous means having no integrity?

Even for kings and presidents goes that private matters should be discussed in a familiar circle. Too much monkey business for Elvis to be involved in..

[jak]

So was Elvis a bad guy or do you really think being famous means having no integrity?

Even for kings and presidents goes that private matters should be discussed in a familiar circle. Too much monkey business for Elvis to be involved in..

I never said Elvis was a bad guy but he certainly did bad things.Im not sure what you mean associating integrity with being famous.Being that famous and wealthy can certainly challenge a person's integrity.Because Elvis was Elvis he could indulge in things more easily and was presented with far more temptations than the average person.I guess it all depends on your perspective.Does a man that cheats on his wife maintain his integrity,does over indulging in drugs compromise it?I guess everybody has their own feelings towards this.I dont care what it would have taken to snap Elvis out of his destructive tailspin if it would have worked.He needed his private business out in the open to give him a good kick in the rear.Everything he did was kept quiet for the majority of his life and he paid a steep price for not having any limits applied to him.I'ts easy to look back and play the what if game now 30 years later so who knows what would have helped.The only thing that's certain is he suffered a death with no dignity.He deserved far better than what he got.
Jak

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I never said Elvis was a bad guy but he certainly did bad things.Im not sure what you mean associating integrity with being famous.Being that famous and wealthy can certainly challenge a person's integrity.Because Elvis was Elvis he could indulge in things more easily and was presented with far more temptations than the average person.I guess it all depends on your perspective.Does a man that cheats on his wife maintain his integrity,does over indulging in drugs compromise it?I guess everybody has their own feelings towards this.I dont care what it would have taken to snap Elvis out of his destructive tailspin if it would have worked.He needed his private business out in the open to give him a good kick in the rear.Everything he did was kept quiet for the majority of his life and he paid a steep price for not having any limits applied to him.I'ts easy to look back and play the what if game now 30 years later so who knows what would have helped.The only thing that's certain is he suffered a death with no dignity.He deserved far better than what he got.
Jak

I certainly think that Elvis overindulged in many parts of his life which your average man on the street could not! That said he was Elvis! Many around him knew their place within the scheme of things and didn't rock the boat and then become an outsider.

I read a book about Michael J Fox, in it he commented that once he became famous that suddenly there were all these yes men around who didn't stop him from indulging in excess, even the police would not fine him for speeding! Now if you times that by the magnitude of Elvis' fame you can see how Elvis had become insulated from the normal boundries of right and wrong. Other things to consider are how do you handle being Elvis Presley........ wow this man was way up there on the scale of fame and fortune, Idolised by millions, how do you cope with being a normal human being? On the whole I think Elvis treated his fans well and remained humble until the day he died. Elvis certainly questioned his fame and perhaps had difficulties dealing with why he was chosen, perhaps the medication he took was one way of dealing with his illnesses and his thought processes at that time?

JJ

[Diane]

I completely agree with you Matt. I also read the book by Michael J. Fox and remember that passage about suddenly being surrounded by yes men. And you are right, Elvis' fame reached a magnitude so quickly that he never did get a chance for some balance in his life. I do believe he was constantly trying for and badly wanting a normal life (the football games etc.) but it wasn't possible. It's really not fair to say that he should have pulled himself up by the bootstraps when he was on a constant roller coaster ride both in his private and professional life. I still maintain that in his case especially, he needed some really tough love and help that he never got.

[jak]

I agree with the above comments.Elvis never really did get a chance to live in the "real" world and that surely didnt help him in the long run.Looking back though I dont think Elvis wanted help and probably didnt believe he needed any.As far as the fans go Elvis couldnt have treated them better.I know in some of my posts Ive been tough on Elvis but that was in regards to some of the personal issues in his life and some of the descions he made.When it came to the fans Elvis was probably the most giving entertainer there ever was.Deep down he was a good guy and it came across.That's one of the reasons his fans have been so loyal over the years.This is especially true for the ones who were around back then.I became a fan back in 72 when my parents bought me my first Elvis lp and I've never looked back since then.He was a great role model growing up.I was lucky enough to see him perform once in 74 and to this day its hard for me to express what it was like seeing Elvis in person.He can never be replaced.
Jak

[EnigmaticSun]

Yes, it was true he didn't get to do the things others would consider to be ordinary.

For me the mystery remains why he never really developed a long-term, rewarding, sastisfying relationship with a woman, like Johnny Cash had with June. And I certainly would not consider eating, sleeping and medicating like Elvis did.

But I do think that the dead deserve some rest and respect; there's more for me to be grateful for, than that there is to blame. I'd say, educate the masses instead of telling how foolish he was. And it's easy for you telling he should have been scrutinized in public some more, not being Elvis yourself.

As for cheating on his wife (if true), that's something private and being famous does not mean that taking advantage of him (being press-vulture) is nice or ethical.

[memphis 77]

yes i think E.P. DID HIMSELF IN, I think it was just to convienent that he died when all these things were happening , the book, his loss of interest in performing, i think the story that david stanley said about the attck packets being all saved up also comes into play , his depression, it was obvious he was not looking forward to another tour, i mean , TOM HULET said E.P. phoned him the night before and asked him how the ticket sales were, and tom replied that the tour was sold out, and E.P. seemed surprised[this is found in the colonel expose by nash] , i mean when your severly depressed , even bi polar you contemplait suicide often, and some people gom through with it. He had alot to face up to media wise, and he was just going through the motions , i think he took all the packets at once and thought he would die in bed but instead the load hit him on the toilet.again just my opinion.

[jak]

Yes, it was true he didn't get to do the things others would consider to be ordinary.

For me the mystery remains why he never really developed a long-term, rewarding, sastisfying relationship with a woman, like Johnny Cash had with June. And I certainly would not consider eating, sleeping and medicating like Elvis did.

But I do think that the dead deserve some rest and respect; there's more for me to be grateful for, than that there is to blame. I'd say, educate the masses instead of telling how foolish he was. And it's easy for you telling he should have been scrutinized in public some more, not being Elvis yourself.

As for cheating on his wife (if true), that's something private and being famous does not mean that taking advantage of him (being press-vulture) is nice or ethical.

Elvis probably didnt have a quality relationship with one woman because he wasnt capable of being faithfull to any woman.If you seriously doubt Elvis cheated on his wife I firmly believe you should never post again.I'm not trying to provoke an arguement but if anybody thinks Elvis was faithfull to his women they are naive beyond belief.My point about him being scrutinized was that it might have gotten him to realize there was a price to pay for his actions.Elvis answered to nobody and never had to face the consequences.Lets face the undisputable facts.His problems were not brought out in the open and he ended up dying alone on the bathroom floor so maybe the other alternative of him having his pride hurt publicy might have been worth a shot.If you disagree I guess youre content with the way things ended up for him.
As far as the suicide theory goes its ridiculous.Anybody going to kill themselves doesnt go the dentist just prior and play a little racquetball before checking out.Ive never believed the suicide theory for one second.
Jak

[EnigmaticSun]

Yeah, he did have quality relationships with women, such as his mother and Lisa-Marie. And the troubled relationship with his wife wasn't exclusively his fault.

It just looks like you've never gotten over losing Elvis. Maybe you should consider trying to come to grips with your grief.

Yes, I'm forever grateful for what Elvis meant and means to me. Always have and always will.

Getting caught in the gears of a combine.. having your nuts bit off by a Laplander, that's the way I wanna go! But it's not going to change my eternal loyalty and respect for Elvis!

[jak]

Yeah, he did have quality relationships with women, such as his mother and Lisa-Marie. And the troubled relationship with his wife wasn't exclusively his fault.

It just looks like you've never gotten over losing Elvis. Maybe you should consider trying to come to grips with your grief.

Yes, I'm forever grateful for what Elvis meant and means to me. Always have and always will.

Getting caught in the gears of a combine.. having your nuts bit off by a Laplander, that's the way I wanna go! But it's not going to change my eternal loyalty and respect for Elvis!

I could be mistaken but I would guess Elvis viewed his mother and daughter in a different light than his female companions.Comparing the two makes no sense.In your previous post you mentioned June Carter's relationship so I was not talking about his relationships with his family members.Those bonds are important obviously but a person's choice of a partner and how he relates to them is equally important in a person's life.
I have come to grips with my grief because I dont have any.I miss Elvis but I cant grieve for a person I have never met.That is saved for friends and family.
Just out of curiousty can somebody tell me what a laplander is?
Jak

[Diane]

I really don't understand what the big deal is about Elvis being unfaithful to Priscilla when almost 100% of celebrities and politicians are. Unfortunately it's a fact of life in those fields. They are targets and temptations are much greater than they are for the ordinary man (and woman) which many of whom also have affairs on the side without the fame. Most of the celebrity and political wives are also unfaithful and so was Priscilla. I don't condone any of it but I can understand it. It must be very hard to maintain a close relationship with a spouse under those conditions where there are literally thousands of people butting in on their private lives. Especially in the case of Elvis who had a houseful of people all the time and was continuously chased when away from home.

I really don't get why Elvis is so jumped on when so many were known to be much worse in being unfaithful and taking drugs. Why him? Was it because he was known to be super sensitive? As you know people don't pick on you unless they know they are going to get a reaction. Or was it just because he seemed so big and they want to bring him down to their level? In any case it sure isn't fair!:'(

[jak]

I really don't understand what the big deal is about Elvis being unfaithful to Priscilla when almost 100% of celebrities and politicians are. Unfortunately it's a fact of life in those fields. They are targets and temptations are much greater than they are for the ordinary man (and woman) which many of whom also have affairs on the side without the fame. Most of the celebrity and political wives are also unfaithful and so was Priscilla. I don't condone any of it but I can understand it. It must be very hard to maintain a close relationship with a spouse under those conditions where there are literally thousands of people butting in on their private lives. Especially in the case of Elvis who had a houseful of people all the time and was continuously chased when away from home.

I really don't get why Elvis is so jumped on when so many were known to be much worse in being unfaithful and taking drugs. Why him? Was it because he was known to be super sensitive? As you know people don't pick on you unless they know they are going to get a reaction. Or was it just because he seemed so big and they want to bring him down to their level? In any case it sure isn't fair!:'(

I dont think anybody picked on Elvis when he was around.That individual would have been out the door.You are correct about some people who like to tear him down because he was so famous.That goes for anyone with that kind of fame.I not trying to jump on Elvis but just because somebody else does something doesnt make it right and is no excuse for any behavior.I brought it up in regards to integrity.I would also say the fairness should extend to his ex wife.She gets slammed routinely and its generally accepted,if Elvis takes some heat it upsets people and creates arguements.Isnt that just a little hypocritical in all fairness?
jak

[Diane]

You're right Jak, it's not all right just because everyone else is doing it but you'd have to be one strong individual to turn it down as much as Elvis had women throwing themselves at him. And, he wasn't brought up with that kind of integrity. His father did the same before him so I think to him it wasn't a big deal - not right of course but it made it easier for him.

I don't jump on Priscilla because she saw other men except again as a matter of integrity but I don't think her upbringing gave her any either. My big beef with her is that d......m book she wrote telling too many personal things about her ex-husband and the fact that she was no better in the unfaithful department but doesn't admit it, and her taking back his name after he died for money and power. Sure some people call it the "all american way" but I don't think that's something we should be proud of.

The difference I feel here is that Elvis never went around talking about Priscilla after they broke up. He could have said quite a few things in anger if he'd wanted to but if he did say things and I'm sure he did, it's only human, he kept what he said in a close circle and didn't broadcast it to the world and pretend he was innocent. Had she died first can you picture him writing a book about her? No sirree! So yes, I do believe he was the better person of the two. Not to mention all the kindnesses he handed out to complete strangers all his life. Did or does Priscilla do that? No she does absolutely nothing that doesn't directly benefit herself.

So you may see us who down Pris as hypocritical but it's really a matter of who we feel wronged who the most.

[Diane]

I can't believe I waltzed right back into this thread - good timing though, I'll be gone for the next two weeks. :D Will miss all of you! Keep thinking all good thoughts of Elvis and leave the negative behind.;)

[jak]

You're right Jak, it's not all right just because everyone else is doing it but you'd have to be one strong individual to turn it down as much as Elvis had women throwing themselves at him. And, he wasn't brought up with that kind of integrity. His father did the same before him so I think to him it wasn't a big deal - not right of course but it made it easier for him.

I don't jump on Priscilla because she saw other men except again as a matter of integrity but I don't think her upbringing gave her any either. My big beef with her is that d......m book she wrote telling too many personal things about her ex-husband and the fact that she was no better in the unfaithful department but doesn't admit it, and her taking back his name after he died for money and power. Sure some people call it the "all american way" but I don't think that's something we should be proud of.

The difference I feel here is that Elvis never went around talking about Priscilla after they broke up. He could have said quite a few things in anger if he'd wanted to but if he did say things and I'm sure he did, it's only human, he kept what he said in a close circle and didn't broadcast it to the world and pretend he was innocent. Had she died first can you picture him writing a book about her? No sirree! So yes, I do believe he was the better person of the two. Not to mention all the kindnesses he handed out to complete strangers all his life. Did or does Priscilla do that? No she does absolutely nothing that doesn't directly benefit herself.

So you may see us who down Pris as hypocritical but it's really a matter of who we feel wronged who the most.

I agree with a lot of the things you stated.As far as who was the better person I dont know.I dont care about Priscilla.Im an Elvis fan.Elvis genorosity is legendary but she has been involved in many charitable organizations.I dont think anybody here can say who was the better person because none of us knew either of them.That's the point that I think is always lost on people.Our opinions are formed by what you want to believe and the image that a celebrity has created.We know that Elvis cheated on Priscilla first and he cheated on Linda Thompson first.To some people that would make Elvis the lesser individual.If we were not talking about Elvis but a guy you work with Im guessing he would get ripped to shreds.Elvis doesnt because the image around him and the devotion he inspires makes people want to excuse his faults.Its human nature for fans to do that and its understandable.The point I try to get across is that Elvis left us an amazing legacy but as a person he was far from perfect and no saint.Elvis fans have created an almost mythical image of Elvis that he or nobody else could ever achieve.I know its done out of love but its wrong never the less.
Jak

[EnigmaticSun]

Sometimes the charm of a hero is his madness. Let's call this the Einstein-effect. The borderline between madness and being a genius is a thin one. Maybe Elvis had what they call fame or fortune, but something was essentially wrong, because only the lonely know the heartaches he's been through. He was most happy performing on stage, being with his mother and later his daughter. That's why I feel he shouldn't be scrutinized more than any other person.

Of course, I'm fully aware that someone's own mother or daughter shouldn't be considered a sexual partner! It's just that the words 'he never developed a quality relationship with any female human being' don't make any sense.. I really don't even think he bugged girls/women.

You know they saw him like the tough, macho lover, but a lot of women and girls said he was quite gentle. That something bad happened with his marriage means that Priscilla was taking his patience to the limits too.

It's just that I get the impression that some feel 'how could you do this to me? Why did you die?' - It's like putting the blame on him for dying, but it's not going to bring him back.

I respect others saving grief for family and friends, but I love Elvis more than my father and mother. Of course I come from an extreme situation (dysfunctional family), but I mean I've always seen him (=Elvis) like an unconditional friend. And I'm talking love here, not lust for his good looks or anything so romantic.

It's too bad Elvis was brought up in a very macho environment and later on still had 'macho's' around him. I get the impression having all those girls around ya is a very Roman thing, because America is so similar to old decadent Rome; culturally, morally, humanitarian and military-wise.

I think Elvis would have been better off with a timeless, more philosophical environment, like in Ancient Greece. He used to play Beethoven on the piano and the macho-guys would say that it's wrong and he should just play three-chorded songs on the guitar.

It's not just the pressure of having to be with so many women, it's more essential than that. It's artistically-wise too. So I'd say gentle this soul.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Our opinions are formed by what you want to believe and the image that a celebrity has created.We know that Elvis cheated on Priscilla first and he cheated on Linda Thompson first.To some people that would make Elvis the lesser individual.If we were not talking about Elvis but a guy you work with Im guessing he would get ripped to shreds.Elvis doesnt because the image around him and the devotion he inspires makes people want to excuse his faults.Its human nature for fans to do that and its understandable.The point I try to get across is that Elvis left us an amazing legacy but as a person he was far from perfect and no saint.Elvis fans have created an almost mythical image of Elvis that he or nobody else could ever achieve.I know its done out of love but its wrong never the less.
Jak

I totally agree..... I don't think for one minute that Elvis viewed himself as a saint and perhaps that's why he said "The Image Is One Thing The Human Being Is Another, It's Very Hard To Live Up To An Image" :D

I think Elvis came to hate his life and felt trapped and the only way to escape was medication!!!!

Matt

[EnigmaticSun]

Yeah, but still the good outweighed the bad. And I wouldn't consider shredding an 'ordinary' person to pieces either. That's not my business anyway.

It's just that some are always stressing his down-sides. I don't think we should want him to live up to Jesus' status. I gotta agree on the image and human being part though; that's the danger of glamour.

It's not that Elvis' fame or my love for the man makes me think he couldn't ever make a mistake. I'm sincerely grateful for Elvis, the human being, and his music. Is it wrong? No, I don't think so.

[elvis himselvis]

I think he was not happy anymore and thought that if he took more medication his life would be better,and maybe he was thinking about death...this man was not happy anymore and was bored by his way of life...i think also he was concerned about the fact that he was so ill and about the way Lisa Marie would think about him when the book came out...
To get to the point,i think he took a overdosis accidently

[elvisfan4ever]

whatever to this useless thread...rest in peace EP....at peace and with god:king: luv u always(y)

[Lisarose]

whatever to this useless thread...rest in peace EP....at peace and with god:king: luv u always(y)

Useless? Yes, but very interesting, too. :hmm: I'm drawn like a moth to a flame. I think the overdose was accidental - too much, a reaction between the many, whatever. Would he intentionally overdose? Never. He loved life, he loved his family, friends & even his enemies - did he have any of those? Maybe people he didn't trust, or couldn't respect any longer - but that's another thread. Anyway, above all he loved GOD & would never take a chance on offending God. And like everyone says, not while his daughter was anywhere near. He would never hurt his little "Yisa".

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

whatever to this useless thread...rest in peace EP....at peace and with god:king: luv u always(y)

The thread poses the question many have asked, people who do not like this kind of thread should perhaps read another?


Useless? Yes, but very interesting, too. :hmm: I'm drawn like a moth to a flame. I think the overdose was accidental - too much, a reaction between the many, whatever. Would he intentionally overdose? Never. He loved life, he loved his family, friends & even his enemies - did he have any of those? Maybe people he didn't trust, or couldn't respect any longer - but that's another thread. Anyway, above all he loved GOD & would never take a chance on offending God. And like everyone says, not while his daughter was anywhere near. He would never hurt his little "Yisa".

Going back to what people have already suggested, was Elvis' frame of mind where it should have been? The poll in this thread is leaning to wards an unintentional overdose?

JJ

[jak]

The thread poses the question many have asked, people who do not like this kind of thread should perhaps read another?



Going back to what people have already suggested, was Elvis' frame of mind where it should have been? The poll in this thread is leaning to wards an unintentional overdose?

JJ

You have to believe the drugs were a major factor in his death.Intentional overdose?No way I would ever even consider that.He wouldnt have gone out that way.If it was an overdose it was accidental.The theory of a negative reaction to the drugs interacting in his system sounds feasible and logical.At the very least the drugs were a contributing factor.
Jak

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

You have to believe the drugs were a major factor in his death.Intentional overdose?No way I would ever even consider that.He wouldnt have gone out that way.If it was an overdose it was accidental.The theory of a negative reaction to the drugs interacting in his system sounds feasible and logical.At the very least the drugs were a contributing factor.
Jak

Agreed, it was unintentional (y)

[riley]

Considering the Stanley Boys were appointed to bring his dose of medication, everything is possible.

Wasn't Elvis allergic to codeine and didn't he know that:hmm:
And what was found in his body in large doses:hmm:

Over the years I read and heard lots of whispers.

Cannot tell everything or judge anyone ofcourse, but WHY was there no proper investigation.

IMO his death was NO suicide at all but not a natural one either.(n)

[ajr]

...... but WHY was there no proper investigation.

IMO his death was NO suicide at all but not a natural one either.(n)

This says it about as well as anything, IMO.
In things written over the years ; I've often wondered .....
Elvis, what happened ??and where were the police, doctors ,etc. A homeless persons death would have gotten investigated more than Elvis' did.
To tie it up neatly; the official cause of death is still a heart attack and to keep it where some want it to stay ...the abuse of prescription drugs. The mystery will remain until someone that really cares has the time, connections & the money to look into it further.
As one of Lisa's songs goes: Nobody Noticed my question has always been; didn't anyone really care ?? IMO, there are no simple one line answers.

[Nicole Presley]

I don?t think he has taken an overdose. :hmm:

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I don?t think he has taken an overdose. :hmm:

Ultimately I think this is what killed him, inadvertently :'(

[goodelvisgirl]

elvis did what he did and maybee sometimes wondered what he was doing or where this was going with the medication rout but i dont think he would overdose on purpose maybee by accident but well never know someone (probably elvis himself )should have give him a kick up the but but i love him for better or for worse he wasn't a saint but who is

[CRITTERGITTER]

We were told a long time ago by one of the guys that it was an accidental overdose, but not by Elvis. We were told that the people who brought the last packet of meds to Elvis' room added and deleted some pills as a joke. It certainly could be a possibility since several of the guys admitted to their own drug problems. It's just a thought.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

We were told a long time ago by one of the guys that it was an accidental overdose, but not by Elvis. We were told that the people who brought the last packet of meds to Elvis' room added and deleted some pills as a joke. It certainly could be a possibility since several of the guys admitted to their own drug problems. It's just a thought.

I have never heard this story before, who is the source? it is interesting for sure!

[jak]

The only story I've heard about somebody else possibly causing Elvis' accidental overdose concerned his drug packets.From what I understand his "medication" was in packets.They would be brought to him at certain times.Long ago I heard it was thought that someone gave Elvis the wrong packet that night causing his overdose.
Jak

[King_Creole]

There were 14 different drugs found in Elvis' bloodstream when he passeed away, 10 of them in lethal amounts.

Stop and think about that for a minute.

The codiene alone was enough to kill an average person.

I don't know why people are still in denial and choose to re-write history.

Elvis died from "polypharmacy". Simple as that.

[SeeSeeRider777]

What I think is that I heard that Elvis went to the dentist the night of and he had taken novicane. That is a very dangerous combo. Wilt the Stilt died because of the mix of the novicane and his heart meds. And I believe that is what killed E. And really I am surprised that Elvis lived as long as he did. Elvis didnt commit suicide he was a very religious man.

[ajr]

We were told a long time ago by one of the guys that it was an accidental overdose, but not by Elvis. We were told that the people who brought the last packet of meds to Elvis' room added and deleted some pills as a joke. It certainly could be a possibility since several of the guys admitted to their own drug problems. It's just a thought.


You are closest to the truth.

[KPM]

I found this article on line from 1978 just food for thought:
HOW DID ELVIS DIE?
The following article originally appeared in the Salt Lake City Tribune on January 29th, 1978:

Toxicologists based at the University of Utah have completed laboratory studies of autopsy specimens from the body of Elvis Presley and have found that 11 drugs were present in the singer's system at the time of his death, The Tribune has learned.

All of those drugs were consistent with medical treatment, said the director of the Center for Human Toxicology, Dr. Bryan S. Finkle. He spoke to The Tribune in an exclusive interview. The Center had been called in to provide a third toxicological analysis of typical autopsy specimens from Presley's body.

He reported, "We have not detected any drug in Elvis that doesn't have a medical rationale to it - only agents prescribed for perfectly normal, rational medical reasons."

Dr. Finkle said the singer had not been drinking prior to his sudden death, which reportedly was blamed on an erratic heartbeat, last Aug. 16. Efforts by the Tribune to obtain a copy of the report by the Center for Human Toxicology have not been successful.

The Center received the first of the autopsy specimens on Oct. 4, and when The Tribune learned of this Dr. Finkle postponed requested interviews for professional reasons as he was acting in a consultant's role and in that, cannot talk in specifics.

He spoke, when interviewed, in general that, yes, he had been involved in the case and that he found 11 drugs, all consistent with medical treatment. Of course, that the entertainer did have prescription drugs in his system at the time of death has previously been reported. Most accounts mentioned from eight to 10 drugs.

The Center for Human Toxicology, which has an international reputation among toxicologists and forensic scientists, was the third organization called in in this phase of the Presley autopsy. The others were the Baptist Memorial Hospital in Memphis, Tenn.,and Bio-Science Laboratories, Van Nuys, Calif. Bio-Science requested the Center of Human Toxicology conduct the third examination, said Dr. Finkle.

While certain agencies, including the center based at the University of Utah, and the Shelby County, Tennessee, Medical Examiner's Office, involved in this story receive public monies, it appears unlikely that there will be disclosure of specifics about the toxicological analysis. The autopsy performed was done at the request of the Presley family.

In a nutshell, rights of privacy prevail and the parties appear to have no legal duty and are not compelled to disclose certain documents, in particular the toxicological report of the Center for Human Toxicology.

Dr. Finkle, as a consultant in the Presley case, said he wrote a two-page report based on his findings at the request of Bio-Science. In it he lists the found drugs, their concentrations and he concludes with an opinion as to the potential or possible toxicological consequences of having this number of drugs in these concentrations in a body.

The laboratory results here apparently satisfied Shelby County Medical Examiner Dr. Jerry T. Francisco that Presley's death could not be attributed to drug overdose. However , it was learned that the death certificate was signed before the final Finkle report was mailed. Dr. Finkle's opinion was solicited earlier by a phone call, and Dr. Francisco later said publicly that the prescriptions drugs found in the singer's system were not a contributing factor.

The Associated Press, reporting on a press conference Dr. Francisco called last Oct. 21, quoted the medical examiner as saying that four drugs were found in significant quantities in the entertainer's bloodstream.

They are Ethinamate, Methaqualone, codeine and barbiturates. The first two are sedatives; codeine is a narcotic analgesic or milder, secondary pain killer, and barbiturates are "downers" or sedatives or depressants. Dr. Francisco was quoted as saying that four other drugs-the antihistamine chlorpheniramine, meperidine, morphine and Valium-were found in what were said to be insignificant amounts.

Meperidine and morphine are pain killers and Valium is a tranquilizer. Presley was not taking morphine per se; the morphine was a byproduct of the codeine. The AP said Dr. Francisco said the amount of drugs found in Presley's body, collectively, would not have constituted a drug overdose. And he said it was unlikely that the drugs' chemical reactions within the body could have contributed to his death.

He said Presley died of a heart disease. "Had these drugs not been there, he still would have died." Dr. Francisco was quoted as saying that the press conference. But at this time the Finkle report was not in hand. It was not completed until December.

Nonetheless, the death certificate was signed at a point-just prior to the release of the Finkle report-where tests were sufficiently completed so that authorities could conclude that the drugs did not contribute to the death.

Officially, Dr. Francisco said in Memphis in October that Presley's death was caused by hypertensive heart disease with coronary artery disease as a contributing factor. The autopsy was conducted by Dr. Eric Muirhead, chief of pathology at Baptist Memorial Hospital. The autopsy was reportedly most thorough.

While Dr. Finkle would not be specific, he did give some solid information. He said that he found no Ritalin in the specimens. Ritalin is a stimulant and a trade name for preparations of methylphenidate. Dr. Finkle said he had been specifically asked to look for this drug among other agents.

As a toxicologist and not a medical doctor, Dr. Finkle will not even remotely discuss or determine cause of death. If he has an opinion he is keeping it to himself.

The 42-year-old- Presley was found face down on the floor of a bathroom at Graceland, his 18-room mansion, at 2:30 p.m. Aug. 16. He had been last seen alive that day about 6 a.m. after playing racquet ball with members of his entourage. He was a sick man. He had hypertension and a colon problem. Efforts to revive the singer were abandoned that day at 3:30 p.m. at Baptist Memorial Hospital.

The autopsy was reportedly very thorough and careful with several doctors participating. Dr. Finkle explained that it is routine in any medical-legal investigation for there to be three facets to a scene investigation of what were the circumstances surrounding the death; the medical-legal autopsy, and support investigation in clinical or toxicological laboratories.

And, the Presley case was reportedly conducted along routine lines. When taken to the hospital, there was reportedly suspicion that Presley died of what might loosely be called a heart attack; there were signs of cardiac arrest and cardiovascular blood flow problems. Autopsy specimens were routinely sent to the laboratory, and it was decided to have two toxicology labs do the work-the hospital's and Bio-Science. Dr. Finkle said, "as far as I know" there was no conflict between the two toxicologists, but there was some medical opinion differences as to what quantitative amounts of the drugs might mean relative to Presley's death.

The physician who conducted the autopsy, Dr. Muirhead, did not respond to a telephone call and letters from The Tribune. Shelby County Medical Examiner Dr. Francisco responded that the autopsy was done at the family request and with family authorization by the pathology staff of Baptist Memorial Hospital. This separated him for authorized toxicology studied and he is unauthorized to release any reports, he said.

"What he have done," said Dr. Finkle, "is to conduct a routine, complete series of forensic toxicological analyses on specimens and determine quantitatively what drugs were present in the victim and in what breakdown and we were asked what this means: is it germane to his death, did he die of drugs or didn't he?" said Dr. Finkle.

Presley's illnesses included hypertension, some cardiovascular compromise and a colon obstruction. He fought a losing battle with a weight problem for several years.

"As a toxicologist, if you ask me why he had the drugs (in his system), the answer is that he needed them medically. All the drugs were in a range consistent with therapy and therapeutic requirements for known conditions of illnesses which he had," Dr. Finkle said.

[Diane]

KPM, I'm glad you posted this article. I've read it at different sites on the internet several times........but nobody believes it. I want to - badly.:'(

Diane

[KPM]

I've ran accross it several times also. I can not vouch for its authenticity but the toxicologist quoted is for real. I found this when I searched his name, it is a report to a congressional committee about steroid and substance abuse:
I
Dr. Bryan S. Finkle, Chief Forensic Toxicologist for the NFL?s Policies on Steroids and Substances of Abuse
I am pleased to have been asked to participate in today?s hearing before the Government Reform Committee. I applaud the Committee?s interest in the NFL?s steroid testing program and its impact on young people.
By way of background, for more than 40 years I have been a forensic toxicologist with continuing experience in the toxicology of substance abuse and at least 20 years in sports (anti-doping) toxicology. My association with the NFL?s steroid policy dates to its inception. Currently I serve as Chief Forensic Toxicologist for the NFL?s steroids and substances of abuse programs, for which I have been jointly selected and approved by the League and NFL Players Association. I am responsible for all technical aspects of the programs including oversight of the laboratory performance, quality control and interpretation of test results. .......... Analysis not only can accurately identify drugs that are being used, but acts as a deterrent Dr. Bryan Finkle Page.... 1 5/12/2005
So this is a real person who is a toxicologist.

[elvisfan4life]

There's so many mistakes and medications that are mixed together that when combined, it takes a toll on our body without us knowing about it. I know that first hand. There's been so much said over the years and so much written that of course we will never know the truth but no way do I think Elvis took his own life. Heart problems yes, medications yes for ailing problems but when God wants us, he'll take us any time, night or day. (n)

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

As a side note to this thread, the autopsy is is available in 20 years, do you think that the Family will pay to have it closed when this period expires? Can this still be done. Has enough time passed by and common knowledge of the prescribed drugs that any move to cover the results would not be worth while?

I'm still amazed that there is so much fuss over this subject now and 30 years have passed!

[KPM]

Not to get off subject but it really doesn't surprise me. The JFK assasination has a over thousand books written about it- each start at the same point then come to totally different conclusions-the Mafia did it, Castro did it, Russians, LBJ, big business, the Chinese, Oswald and Ruby worked together,.... I mean it just goes on and on. All are suppose to be documented and researched to the hilt. The simplest details are disputed and the biggest details are dissected. One doctor present says JFK was alive when brought in and that he left alive with the secret service on a stretcher (taking him with threat of force) It is never ending and as time goes on it will only get worse.
The same with Elvis's death. IMO in cases like this it will always be a situation of constant questions and little definitive answers. What is obvious to some isn't always to others, and even when the autopsy findings are made public if all the doctors and 3 labs involved did not come to the same conclusions it will still leave questions. It will never be resolved totally. IMO
Its a shame Elvis's death at times overshadows the accomplishments of his life.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Its a shame Elvis's death at times overshadows the accomplishments of his life.

I certainly think that this is because people still wish Elvis to be alive! EPE and others well placed have created this scenario by gagging the autopsy report and everyone else being tight lipped so to speak. "Elvis by the Presley's" was a turning point for me in that Priscilla has clearly made a definitive decision to be open about Elvis' prescribed drug problem and also was candid during many t.v. appearances around that time. However the speculation will abound until the autopsy is released into the public domain. Then that will be scrutinised and holes found in that :lmfao:

[KPM]

I certainly think that this is because people still wish Elvis to be alive! EPE and others well placed have created this scenario by gagging the autopsy report and everyone else being tight lipped so to speak. "Elvis by the Presley's" was a turning point for me in that Priscilla has clearly made a definitive decision to be open about Elvis' prescribed drug problem and also was candid during many t.v. appearances around that time. However the speculation will abound until the autopsy is released into the public domain. Then that will be scrutinised and holes found in that :lmfao:
You are so right, if the autopsy had been released quickly there would be nothing to debate. But as you say when it is released any disagreement -among the labs and doctors who worked on it- will lead to more debate.(When the hundreds of pages long Warren Report on the Kennedy assasination was finally released after years of investigation, it did have enough holes in it to spawn a whole new crop of books on the subject)
I think Priscilla's book made it clear (but did not feel the need to go into huge detail) that Elvis was overusing the prescribed drugs. I recall her description of her trying to seduce Elvis and the drugs hit and he was out cold.
I have never figured out the "Elvis might still be alive" crowd. I mean hes gone-wish he wasn't but he is.

[TLC67]

Overdosed? Yes. Intentional? No. Not with Lisa in the house and where he was found. I do believe that he knew he was not long for this world and was resigned to that fact. But he was not in a hurry to go. He loved life too much.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I certainly think that this is because people still wish Elvis to be alive! EPE and others well placed have created this scenario by gagging the autopsy report and everyone else being tight lipped so to speak. "Elvis by the Presley's" was a turning point for me in that Priscilla has clearly made a definitive decision to be open about Elvis' prescribed drug problem and also was candid during many t.v. appearances around that time. However the speculation will abound until the autopsy is released into the public domain. Then that will be scrutinised and holes found in that :lmfao:

The highlighted part is relevant to the "Coffin Pic Exposed Thread"!! when will people accept the truth and move on?

[Diane]

Never, too many people like to make everything as complicated as they can even when the obvious is right in front of their eyes.:angry:

Diane

[cameron]

The questions will always exist because there are too many different stories out here.IMO, it has nothing to do with him being alive. Only that the truth be told so people can stop lying and he can RIP.
That's what truth does. ;)

[TotallyInsane]

He could have very well overdosed - but not by his own hands....

[Tony Trout]

He could have very well overdosed - but not by his own hands....

I think you're right, Gail...as well as an earlier post by someone in this thread. Elvis knew the PDR like the back of his hand and he knew what medicines/drugs he could mix with each other.

I, personally, do not believe that Elvis intentionally overdosed on that horrible day in August, 1977. Something else happened in that bathroom that we'll never know the truth about until the autopsy report is released to the public.

[cameron]

He could have very well overdosed - but not by his own hands....

Well, that's what Vernon thought, I guess.

[jon_burrows]

I think you're right, Gail...as well as an earlier post by someone in this thread. Elvis knew the PDR like the back of his hand and he knew what medicines/drugs he could mix with each other.

I, personally, do not believe that Elvis intentionally overdosed on that horrible day in August, 1977. Something else happened in that bathroom that we'll never know the truth about until the autopsy report is released to the public.


I think you're right Tony we won't know the truth. Can LMP stop the autopsy report being released to the public?

[Tony Trout]

I think you're right Tony we won't know the truth. Can LMP stop the autopsy report being released to the public?


I hate to say it but I have a feeling that EPE/Priscilla/LMP will do whatever they can to stop the autopsy report from being made public. Just because Vernon requested it stay closed for 50 years doesn't mean it has to.

That's my opinion, at least.

[MissyM]

I'm reading the Memphis Mafia Revelations book (Alanna Nash), and it sounds like Lamar, Billy, and Marty had "tried" to get Elvis to stop destroying his health. That is admirable, but at the same time, I feel like they valued their job, money, gifts, etc., too much to really push for Elvis to get some professional help. In fact, they enabled Elvis, and took part in rationalizing.
____________
When ever someone says this it makes me go ..Huh....where is the logic? You don't want your gravy train dead. You want it to live so you can keep living the good life.

[Miss Clawdy]

I'd like to quote Henri Poincaré:

“To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.” ;)

[utmom2008]

I think you're right, Gail...as well as an earlier post by someone in this thread. Elvis knew the PDR like the back of his hand and he knew what medicines/drugs he could mix with each other.

I, personally, do not believe that Elvis intentionally overdosed on that horrible day in August, 1977. Something else happened in that bathroom that we'll never know the truth about until the autopsy report is released to the public.
I know that he knew that book by chapter and verse, so what happened to him in October of 73? Wasn't it just a couple of days after the divorce was final? And, there was that episode on the airplane? I wonder...did he just "push the envelope", so to speak? :hmm::hmm:

[utmom2008]

Well, that's what Vernon thought, I guess.
Didn't Vernon think there was the possibility that he had been poisoned? :hmm:

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I believe there will be little to be learned from the autopsy that hasn't already been speculated over and over again. It doesn't take rocket science to see that Elvis' health had deteriorated to the point his body just couldn't stand it any longer! The facts and details from the autopsy report will only confirm what we all know deep down.

The autopsy can't tell you the circumstance surrounding Elvis' death just what he died of. I don't know what people expect to get from these documents, there certainly won't be a run down of the days events, just cold hard facts.....

[e76]

I think he could have overdosed accidently, but I don't think Elvis would have done it purposely. I think that Elvis was under a tremendous amount of stress at the time and he may have increased his meds, but I don't think he intentionally killed himself.

[KPM]

I believe there will be little to be leaned from the autopsy that hasn't already been speculated over and over again. It doesn't take rocket science to see that Elvis' health had deteriorated to the point his body just couldn't stand it any longer! The facts and details from the autopsy report will only confirm what we all know deep down.

The autopsy can't tell you the circumstance surrounding Elvis' death just what he died of. I don't know what people expect to get from these documents, there certainly won't be a run down of the days events, just cold hard facts.....
I think some people are expecting that this will be the "end all" for debates about the how and why of his death. IMO That will never happen, unless its somehow 100% beyond any questioning no matter what the findings point to. I don't think it will truthfully stop speculation, nor doubt about his death and its causes.

[Tony Trout]

I know that he knew that book by chapter and verse, so what happened to him in October of 73? Wasn't it just a couple of days after the divorce was final? And, there was that episode on the airplane? I wonder...did he just "push the envelope", so to speak? :hmm::hmm:


Elvis was always "pushing the envelope" in everything he would do...



Didn't Vernon think there was the possibility that he had been poisoned? :hmm:

Vernon actually thought that one of the "Lifers" (David Stanley, Ricky, etc., etc.) might have killed Elvis....

[utmom2008]

I believe there will be little to be leaned from the autopsy that hasn't already been speculated over and over again. It doesn't take rocket science to see that Elvis' health had deteriorated to the point his body just couldn't stand it any longer! The facts and details from the autopsy report will only confirm what we all know deep down.

The autopsy can't tell you the circumstance surrounding Elvis' death just what he died of. I don't know what people expect to get from these documents, there certainly won't be a run down of the days events, just cold hard facts.....

I agree with you...I can't imagine learning anymore that what we already know. I sure don't see any big revelation coming about as a result of it. I imagine there will be alot of us shaking our heads thinking "we waited 50 years for this?":doh::blush::blink:

[cameron]

I can't imagine anything too drastic from that autopsy either. IF there had been anything too drastic, I think Vernon would have done something about it then.

That was my interpretation; that he blamed the Stanley boys.
Surely, we would know that by now ,if it were true.
IF Vernon had any idea this would have gone on so long....I wonder if he would have still made that autopsy private ?

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

[/b][/u]

I agree with you...I can't imagine learning anymore that what we already know. I sure don't see any big revelation coming about as a result of it. I imagine there will be alot of us shaking our heads thinking "we waited 50 years for this?":doh::blush::blink:

Agreed, we will end up saying told you so.... :P


Elvis was always "pushing the envelope" in everything he would do...

Absolutely, It's not entirely unbelievable that inadvertently due to be over medicated that Elvis missed some early warning signs that he was having a cardiac event :hmm:



IF Vernon had any idea this would have gone on so long....I wonder if he would have still made that autopsy private ?

Vernon had the autopsy made private because at the time of Elvis' death very little was known about Elvis' lifestyle and drug intake. The public at large were in the dark or by 1977 disinterested. Vernon was just TCB-ing, todays society wouldn't even bat an eyelid at such behaviour.

[Sammycakes]

I really don't believe he would have purposely killed himself for two reasons: 1) his Christian beliefs would have led him to believe that he would go straight to hell 2) Lisa was there in the house. Unthinkable.

[cameron]

Vernon had the autopsy made private because at the time of Elvis' death very little was known about Elvis' lifestyle and drug intake. The public at large were in the dark or by 1977 disinterested. Vernon was just TCB-ing, todays society wouldn't even bat an eyelid at such behaviour.

I think the fans pretty well knew something was not right. If not, they were getting ready to be told. EWH came out August 1st.
Plus, many went through the 60's well aware of other performers much worse.
Thanks for your opinion though.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I think the fans pretty well knew something was not right. If not, they were getting ready to be told. EWH came out August 1st.
Plus, many went through the 60's well aware of other performers much worse.
Thanks for your opinion though.

No, Thank YOU for your condescension (y)

[Getlo]

EWH came out August 1st.

It was serialised here in Australian newspapers from late May 1977. It caused a sensation at the time. The surprise of Elvis' death was lessened somehow, after the book's revelations.

[TotallyInsane]

It was serialised here in Australian newspapers from late May 1977. It caused a sensation at the time. The surprise of Elvis' death was lessened somehow, after the book's revelations.

I don't recall that happening here before he died. Ya'll got spys over here??:D

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

It was serialised here in Australian newspapers from late May 1977. It caused a sensation at the time. The surprise of Elvis' death was lessened somehow, after the book's revelations.

The book wasn't released in the UK until August, and to be perfectly honest the average person wasn't going to buy the book! So when Elvis died it was a huge surprise over here. The Image of Elvis in the publics conciseness was that of the Aloha concert so when the pictures of Elvis from the Hollywood Fl show surfaced people were shocked at how Elvis had declined.

I'm sure the public were aware that things weren't right sooner, but they had no Idea how bad things had gotten. When you consider there are those out there who STILL quote "The drugs taken were in range with therapeutic needs".

[KPM]

If you get 10 doctors in a room and have them each individually do a check up on any one person-you are going to get many different diagnoses if they find problems with this person. If he has arthritis-they are going to have varying answers for the severity of the attacks, the course of treatment, and the pain meds proper for the severity. Pick a set of symptoms, let them run tests and then let them debate what is causing them. Its a crapshoot.
Now take 10 different people who have arthritis, or bursitis, or an ulcer (pick your favorite disease) ask them how bad it hurts and how it affects their lives. Some will say it is no problem-they can handle it. Some will say it is bothersome- but not all the time. Others will say it ruins their daily lives because it affects everything they do and nothing helps. Subjective to each persons pain limits and mental strength.

[utmom2008]

Vernon had the autopsy made private because at the time of Elvis' death very little was known about Elvis' lifestyle and drug intake. The public at large were in the dark or by 1977 disinterested. Vernon was just TCB-ing, todays society wouldn't even bat an eyelid at such behaviour.

That's exactly what I thought. Even though EWH had just been released, no one really thought there was any link between his dying and his drug intake. Back then when drugs were even whispered about the theory was quickly shot down and we were reminded that Nixon had made him a narcotics agent. I think it's quite possible that in trying to help Elvis, Vernon may have made things that much worse.:blush::blink:

[utmom2008]

Plus, many went through the 60's well aware of other performers much worse.


No one dared to think of Elvis in the same breath as Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin or Jimmi Hendrix. Just because we knew those performers had OD'd didn't mean we would automatically assume that Elvis Presley had done the same thing. Those of us who were flocking to Las Vegas every summer were not flocking to hear Janis Joplin in between times. ;)

[utmom2008]

No, Thank YOU for your condescension (y)
:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:(y)(y)(y)

[cameron]

If you get 10 doctors in a room and have them each individually do a check up on any one person-you are going to get many different diagnoses if they find problems with this person.

I think there are three labs that stated EP's death was not polypharmacy in
"77 and '78.

Then comes 20/20 with Dr Cyril Wecht saying he believed there was reason to think otherwise.

Next and the last time,{ as far as I know;}}In 1994, the autopsy into Presley's death was re-opened. Coroner Dr. Joseph Davis declared: "There is nothing in any of the data that supports a death from drugs [i.e. drug overdose]. In fact, everything points to a sudden, violent heart attack.

So, IMO....it's whichever "facts" you want to believe.:blink:

[KPM]

I think there are three labs that stated EP's death was not polypharmacy in
"77 and '78.

Then comes 20/20 with Dr Cyril Wecht saying he believed there was reason to think otherwise.

Next and the last time,{ as far as I know;}}In 1994, the autopsy into Presley's death was re-opened. Coroner Dr. Joseph Davis declared: "There is nothing in any of the data that supports a death from drugs [i.e. drug overdose]. In fact, everything points to a sudden, violent heart attack.

So, IMO....it's whichever "facts" you want to believe.:blink:
Well you are correct, I have posted a lot of info on this and it always leads to controversy here so I am not going to get into it again. People will believe what they want and if the 94 investigation did not at least give them a moments pause on all this I don't know they ever will. But its a free country to believe in whatever you like which is a good thing. Its debateable.IMO

[utmom2008]

People will believe what they want and if the 94 investigation did not at least give them a moments pause on all this I don't know they ever will.

It certainly gave me something to think about back when I first read it. I think it's a real shame that it was not made more public, it might have given pause to those that still think he died from a massive overdose.:supriced::blush::blink:

[cameron]

Well you are correct, I have posted a lot of info on this and it always leads to controversy here so I am not going to get into it again. People will believe what they want and if the 94 investigation did not at least give them a moments pause on all this I don't know they ever will. But its a free country to believe in whatever you like which is a good thing. Its debateable.IMO

Well, this is a controversial thread .;)

I know what you mean though. People have been fed the other stuff so long, they believe it.
I had a feeling you'd know the difference.

A real debate might be good; not the kind I've experiened though.
Had some "debates" at my house . This is my relaxation.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

IMO Elvis died of a sudden massive heart attack brought on by years of drug abuse (albeit prescribed) and a poor diet, his body just gave out. So to say that Elvis didn't die of polypharmacy, would be disingenuous, it is a large contributory factor. Cause and effect, the smoking gun was the meds.

However much we love Elvis, it is my opinion that we do him a huge disservice by turning a blind eye to his lifestyle and making excuses when Elvis himself didn't feel the need to explain himself to anyone. Elvis had many close calls over the years that it was considered a miracle that he hadn't already died. The fact the bedroom was cleared of all medications before the ambulance arrived tells a story all of it's own, If the guys thought there was nothing to worry about they would have left everything as it was... The guys must have thought that Elvis had OD'd and decided to clear to place out.

This subject however unpalatable will always be a topic of conversation and yes controversial!

[KPM]

IMO Elvis died of a sudden massive heart attack brought on by years of drug abuse (albeit prescribed) and a poor diet, his body just gave out. So to say that Elvis didn't die of polypharmacy, would be disingenuous, it is a large contributory factor. Cause and effect, the smoking gun was the meds.

However much we love Elvis, it is my opinion that we do him a huge disservice by turning a blind eye to his lifestyle and making excuses when Elvis himself didn't feel the need to explain himself to anyone. Elvis had many close calls over the years that it was considered a miracle that he hadn't already died. The fact the bedroom was cleared of all medications before the ambulance arrived tells a story all of it's own, If the guys thought there was nothing to worry about they would have left everything as it was... The guys must have thought that Elvis had OD'd and decided to clear to place out.

This subject however unpalatable will always be a topic of conversation and yes controversial!
If you are talking about the indirect cumlitative affect of years of addiction, bad diet etc...which broke him down I agree. If you are saying polypharmacy directly that night was what caused the heart attack-I do not agree. But I have said this before and made my case for why I believe it and I know you have read my thoughts so I won't drag it all out again.

[utmom2008]

If you are talking about the indirect cumlitative affect of years of addiction, bad diet etc...which broke him down I agree. If you are saying polypharmacy directly that night was what caused the heart attack-I do not agree. But I have said this before and made my case for why I believe it and I know you have read my thoughts so I won't drag it all out again.
I feel like it was years worth of all the things we have all mentioned through out this post. It's as though it all finally came together at the same time...and that time was the morning of August 16th, 1977. :sad::sad:

[cameron]

The fact the bedroom was cleared of all medications before the ambulance arrived tells a story all of it's own, If the guys thought there was nothing to worry about they would have left everything as it was... The guys must have thought that Elvis had OD'd and decided to clear to place out.

Really? From all I've read ; that was all cleaned up after the body was removed and taken to BMH. By the aunt and the maid .:hmm:

[cameron]

If you are talking about the indirect cumlitative affect of years of addiction, bad diet etc...which broke him down I agree. If you are saying polypharmacy directly that night was what caused the heart attack-I do not agree. But I have said this before and made my case for why I believe it and I know you have read my thoughts so I won't drag it all out again.


That's my opinion too on this. As you say; anyone can have an opinion.
I know how and why I made mine. Everyone can believe what they like.

[utmom2008]

Really? From all I've read ; that was all cleaned up after the body was removed and taken to BMH. By the aunt and the maid .:hmm:
That's the idea I have always had as well. After the EMT's left the work started, and by the time Dan Warlick got there it was virtually spotless.

[cameron]

Dick Grobs book states he interviewed : Mary Jenkins and Pauline Nicholson about 8/16/77. {they were not there }

Alanna Nash says in The Colonel: Mary Jenkins took Gingers call for help

Nancy Rooks says in her book, she answered Gingers call .......

Pauline has passed away as has Mary. Guess I'm trying to figure out where all these book authors gets their information...and how true it is.

I found this info about Mary. It seems she wouldn't have been there .
JENKINS, MARY
Elvis's personal cook at Graceland from 1963 until his death in 1977. Mary would work from 7:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. everyday fixing Elvis his favorite meals and snacks. Over the years, Elvis purchased for Mary a house, a new Cadillac and six other automobiles..


Maybe I should stop reading books about Elvis. ;)

[TCBnAflash]

There was a cover up, there's no doubt about it. Ever thought about that?
That could mean anything from, Elvis killing himself, Elvis having a serious cocaine or heroin habit to Elvis faking his death.

King and cocaine: FBI files on Elvis's habit

From the Lancashire Evening Telegraph, first published Wednesday 19th Nov 1997.

Mark Templeton surfs the net

AMERICA'S FBI is often shrouded in secrecy but their web site is an open house and a great source of information...particularly for tabloid journalists.

Recent stories about Elvis being a cocaine addict came from the FBI home page after official documents were released on the net.

Apparently the King couldn't get enough of the white stuff and it was his fear of getting caught or exposed that prevented him from performing in Britain.

Source--> http://archive.thisislancashire.co.uk/1997/11/19/814057.html

[cameron]

There was a cover up, there's no doubt about it. Ever thought about that?
That could mean anything from, Elvis killing himself, Elvis having a serious cocaine or heroin habit to Elvis faking his death.

King and cocaine: FBI files on Elvis's habit

From the Lancashire Evening Telegraph, first published Wednesday 19th Nov 1997.

Mark Templeton surfs the net

AMERICA'S FBI is often shrouded in secrecy but their web site is an open house and a great source of information...particularly for tabloid journalists.

Recent stories about Elvis being a cocaine addict came from the FBI home page after official documents were released on the net.

Apparently the King couldn't get enough of the white stuff and it was his fear of getting caught or exposed that prevented him from performing in Britain.

Source--> http://archive.thisislancashire.co.uk/1997/11/19/814057.html


Good grief !! You should try reading the real FBI files before starting that up !! : :mad:
http://news.lp.findlaw.com/legalnews/entertainment/fbi/elvis/elvis00001.html

[utmom2008]

Good grief !! You should try reading the real FBI files before starting that up !! : :mad:
http://news.lp.findlaw.com/legalnews/entertainment/fbi/elvis/elvis00001.html

I will second that Cameron. Why do some feel the need to start trouble or go looking for controversy??:mad::mad:

[TotallyInsane]

Good grief !! You should try reading the real FBI files before starting that up !! : :mad:
http://news.lp.findlaw.com/legalnews/entertainment/fbi/elvis/elvis00001.html

Amen to this!!!!

[MissyM]

At any given time the heart can go into sudden arrythmia. Once it does that, death can occure. Even athlets that have played for years have had this happen. And it is often an under diagnosised condition or one that is considered benign. (meaning not significant symtoms to worry about) So there are many factors that can trigger it too. Exhaustion, dehydration, and yes certain drugs, and factor in the altering of the amount. My thought is that there was a trigger point with some of the obove involved. In essence, the diagnosis would be heart attack due to arrythmia. It happens. And since his death was not ruled homicide, then no one can be blamed for the particular things that lead to it.
Again, if the three men were worried about their jobs, money and ect. It stands to reason they would try to keep Elvis alive, not want him dead. There is no common sense in that idea. Dead boss-everything lost. And the result is evident. And frankly it bothers me personally that anyone thinks that they would trade Elvis's life for money. That's a pretty low thing to say about anyone. (even if it doesn't make a lick of sense)

[TCBnAflash]

Good grief !! You should try reading the real FBI files before starting that up !! : :mad:
http://news.lp.findlaw.com/legalnews/entertainment/fbi/elvis/elvis00001.html

That stuff is hard to see. Do you know if there's a section that they transcript ed these forums?
I don't what happened to them but a few years there was a lot more information regarding Elvis and the use of cocaine. They didn't all state that is was true, they were just saying there might be a possibility.

[Getlo]

There was a cover up, there's no doubt about it. Ever thought about that? That could mean anything from, Elvis killing himself, Elvis having a serious cocaine or heroin habit to Elvis faking his death.

Ridiculous.

Beyond ridiculous, in fact.

Downright offensive to all thinking fans. :angry:

[TCBnAflash]

Ridiculous.

Beyond ridiculous, in fact.

Downright offensive to all thinking fans. :angry:

Pathedic

Beyond Pathetic, in fact.

Downright rude to all thinking fans: (n)

[cameron]

That stuff is hard to see. Do you know if there's a section that they transcript ed these forums?
I don't what happened to them but a few years there was a lot more information regarding Elvis and the use of cocaine. They didn't all state that is was true, they were just saying there might be a possibility.
The link I posted is fine to read. No, it's not easy...but it's accurate .
It took me 3 days to go through all that FBI information.
It all depends on whether you want to see what really happened or will be satisfied with reports from scandal magazines/articles. I just have a thing about the truth. ;)

In there you will find all the info about the OFP scam pulled on Elvis and Vernon too that some will not talk about or deny.

[Getlo]

Pathedic

Good comeback. ;):lmfao:

If you believe Elvis even tried heroin once - or think that there is some cover-up about that - then your priorities need adjusting.

[Getlo]

No, it's not easy...but it's accurate.

How do you know that? If the FBI is suggesting heroin (I have not read the file yet) then they are wrong.

If they are suggesting a major cocaine problem, then they are also wrong ...

[cameron]

At any given time the heart can go into sudden arrythmia. Once it does that, death can occure. Even athlets that have played for years have had this happen. And it is often an under diagnosised condition or one that is considered benign. (meaning not significant symtoms to worry about) So there are many factors that can trigger it too. Exhaustion, dehydration, and yes certain drugs, and factor in the altering of the amount. My thought is that there was a trigger point with some of the obove involved. In essence, the diagnosis would be heart attack due to arrythmia. It happens. And since his death was not ruled homicide, then no one can be blamed for the particular things that lead to it.
Again, if the three men were worried about their jobs, money and ect. It stands to reason they would try to keep Elvis alive, not want him dead. There is no common sense in that idea. Dead boss-everything lost. And the result is evident. And frankly it bothers me personally that anyone thinks that they would trade Elvis's life for money. That's a pretty low thing to say about anyone. (even if it doesn't make a lick of sense)

Your description on arrythmia is accurate in a sense. It has happened to some young athletes too. The test for arrythmia cannot be done on someone that has already passed away .

I don't think anyone murdered EP, but Vernon did. From what info I've seen, it was Dr Nick and the Stanley's he suspected . It was never proven.
IMO, I think Vernon was thinking more of not being where they {Stanleys} were supposed to be rather than any "hands on" association.
With Dr Nick, I believe he was referring more to the meds.

[cameron]

How do you know that? If the FBI is suggesting heroin (I have not read the file yet) then they are wrong.

If they are suggesting a major cocaine problem, then they are also wrong ...
No where did I say anything about cocaine being mentioned in the FBI files.

Since these files have been out here for several years now; why haven't you read them?
Read them and then I will discuss it with you.Until then, you have nothing to say, IMO.

[TCBnAflash]

How do you know that? If the FBI is suggesting heroin (I have not read the file yet) then they are wrong.

If they are suggesting a major cocaine problem, then they are also wrong ...

I was trying to bring out a point that, The "Cover UP" could mean anything.
What's the big deal anyway. Whatever Elvis did at home is his business, no one else. One thing we can't deny is, the fact that he did like to party during his movie years and that carried over to the 70s.
I'm not saying that the man depended on his "medication" for a good time,
just facing the fact that, he was insecure because of his poor upbringing and then his H.S. days he walked around looking different.
Part of the essence of Elvis' compassionate singing, I believed was a reflection of is insecurities and hard times he faced.
I don't know who picked the song, "My Way" as a standout song in 1977 but
whoever chose that was right in pointing out Elvis' life.

When I met Donny Osmond in 1999, I couldn't believe the way he spoke of Elvis' kindness & how he protected the Osmond's from the Vegas Mafia wanting a piece of them. The look on Donny's face showed me that Elvis was very special to him. That's proof to me that Elvis was an awesome human being.

So whatever He did in his private life really doesn't effect the way I feel about him.
There will never be another Elvis. He represents almost every human being.
That's why you have people who don't know a thing about Elvis but they know he was,
one of them at one point in his life. Not some snobby celebrity who punches a camera man for taking his picture.

[utmom2008]

I don't know who picked the song, "My Way" as a standout song in 1977 but
whoever chose that was right in pointing out Elvis' life.

My Way was not chosen for him to do in 1977, he had already been doing it for nearly 5 years.;)

[Getlo]

The "Cover UP" could mean anything.

There was no cover-up. Elvis died. Heart attack, primary cause: polypharmacy.


What's the big deal anyway. Whatever Elvis did at home is his business, no one else. One thing we can't deny is, the fact that he did like to party during his movie years and that carried over to the 70s.

No argument there.


I'm not saying that the man depended on his "medication" for a good time, just facing the fact that, he was insecure because of his poor upbringing and then his H.S. days he walked around looking different.

What's his poor upbringing got to do with drug taking, of any sort?


The look on Donny's face showed me that Elvis was very special to him. That's proof to me that Elvis was an awesome human being.

There is no "proof" per se that Elvis, or anyone, was "awesome". All this proves is that Osmond thought he was cool.


So whatever He did in his private life really doesn't effect the way I feel about him.

Again, no argument. The weight gain, the drugs, the bizarre behaviour ... none of that bothers me at all; they're just aspects of a very interesting personality - like the concerts, music and the rest.

[Getlo]

No where did I say anything about cocaine being mentioned in the FBI files.

And nowhere did I suggest you did.


If they are suggesting a major cocaine problem, then they are also wrong ...

I stand by my above statement. I also contend that if the files don't mention cocaine - even in passing - then the FBI failed at its job, because Elvis used liquid coke at times.

Personally, I wouldn't trust information from an incompetant organisation like the FBI: they couldn't even figure out that their glorious leader was a closeted homosexual*, and a cross-dresser!

Apparently, the "J" in J. Edgar Hoover stood for "Julie". :lmfao:


* Not that there's anything wrong with that!

[cameron]

Actually, you did.....or I wouldn't have answered you. As I said; read the files or don't comment to me because as you said; you haven't read them


Quote:
Originally Posted by cameron
No, it's not easy...but it's accurate.

How do you know that? If the FBI is suggesting heroin (I have not read the file yet) then they are wrong.

If they are suggesting a major cocaine problem, then they are also wrong ...
__________________
Serious skyjack scrub! (inside joke, too long to explain!)

[utmom2008]

Personally, I wouldn't trust information from an incompetant organisation like the FBI: they couldn't even figure out that their glorious leader was a closeted homosexual*, and a cross-dresser!

Apparently, the "J" in J. Edgar Hoover stood for "Julie". :lmfao:

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

* Not that there's anything wrong with that!
Another Seinfeld watcher....;)

[TCBnAflash]

There was no cover-up. Elvis died. Heart attack, primary caase: polypharmacy.



No argument there.



What's his poor upbringing got to do with drug taking, of any sort?



There is no "proof" per se that Elvis, or anyone, was "awesome". All this proves is that Osmond thought he was cool.



Again, no argument. The weight gain, the drugs, the bizarre behaviour ... none of that bothers me at all; they're just aspects of a very interesting personality - like the concerts, music and the rest.

Is this guy serious? The Prosecuting Attorney speaks again. You truly had missed your calling if that's not your occupation.
You have proven that you have not one bit of compassion for Elvis fans once again.
I'm not at all surprised at your comments on here anymore. I'd think that you'd be more interested in, Death Metal than Elvis music.

[TCBnAflash]

My Way was not chosen for him to do in 1977, he had already been doing it for nearly 5 years.;)

Sorry, what I meant to say was, with the release of, "Elvis In Concert" the CBS Special LP, they released, "My Way" as the standout song to promote it.

[Getlo]

You have proven that you have not one bit of compassion for Elvis fans once again. I'm not at all surprised at your comments on here anymore. I'd think that you'd be more interested in, Death Metal than Elvis music.

What has talk of no cover-up in Elvis' death, Donny Osmond, Elvis' often erratic behaviour and the erroneous link between drug-taking and poor upbringing got to do with my alleged lack of compassion for Elvis fans? ;)

Perhaps you're just miffed that I don't subscribe to the usual "blame society" mentality re drug taking, or that I do not subscribe to certain conspiracy theories?

You were the one who posted a link about Elvis' supposed raging cocaine habit and his non-existent dalliance with heroin without, and that is what I originally responded to ...

[KPM]

There was no cover-up. Elvis died. Heart attack, primary cause: polypharmacy.

No argument there.



What's his poor upbringing got to do with drug taking, of any sort?



There is no "proof" per se that Elvis, or anyone, was "awesome". All this proves is that Osmond thought he was cool.



Again, no argument. The weight gain, the drugs, the bizarre behaviour ... none of that bothers me at all; they're just aspects of a very interesting personality - like the concerts, music and the rest.
Getlo you and I have disagreed on this subject many times and I have given my reasons for it not being polypharmacy so I will not once again restate my opinion and my info on the subject. But I will say in short it has not been proven and there is disagreement in the medical community all the way back to 1977.

[cameron]

There are many things Getlo confesses he hasn't read.
Perhaps that includes the medical reports ? ;)

[utmom2008]

Getlo you and I have disagreed on this subject many times and I have given my reasons for it not being polypharmacy so I will not once again restate my opinion and my info on the subject. But I will say in short it has not been proven and there is disagreement in the medical community all the way back to 1977.

At least the 2 of you can both agree that Elvis did in fact die on August 16, 1977. That's more than some on here are able to agree with.:lmfao::lmfao:

[KPM]

What has talk of no cover-up in Elvis' death, Donny Osmond, Elvis' often erratic behaviour and the erroneous link between drug-taking and poor upbringing got to do with my alleged lack of compassion for Elvis fans? ;)

Perhaps you're just miffed that I don't subscribe to the usual "blame society" mentality re drug taking, or that I do not subscribe to certain conspiracy theories?

You were the one who posted a link about Elvis' supposed raging cocaine habit and his non-existent dalliance with heroin without, and that is what I originally responded to ...
I do not subscribe to the blame society-but there is no denying your interaction with others and the circumstance of your upbringing have an affect on your life and the person you become. You do not choose your parents nor the people they are around when you are born. If we could I would have chose a father, and uncles, who did not kill themselves- and a mother who did not marry 4 times and move me 33 times before I reached my 18th birthday. I would also have preferred to be born into a family-which perhaps was not rich-but was comfortable. A family which was stable with a positive approach to life instead of one which had a negative approach and was always on the edge. I can say without a doubt it had an affect on me and who I am. If you had grown up the way I did-perhaps you would not have been affected the same way-but it does not change how it has mentally worked on me over my 53 years. IMO

[cameron]

At least the 2 of you can both agree that Elvis did in fact die on August 16, 1977. That's more than some on here are able to agree with.:lmfao::lmfao:

Do not be too sure.
My "source' claims that Elvis is in Australia and that someone here is a part of the "cover-up," :P ;)

Ok, just kidding. Couldn't resist .:lmfao:

[KPM]

At least the 2 of you can both agree that Elvis did in fact die on August 16, 1977. That's more than some on here are able to agree with.:lmfao::lmfao:
I think Getlo and I have agreed on some things-the subject of polypharmacy is just not one of them.

[cameron]

I do not subscribe to the blame society-but there is no denying your interaction with others and the circumstance of your upbringing have an affect on your life and the person you become. You do not choose your parents ...If you had grown up the way I did-perhaps you would not have been affected the same way-but it does not change how it has mentally worked on me over my 53 years. IMO

I agree with you KPM. No one should ever try to second guess what anyone's life is or what they might do under the same circumstances.
Best to take a look at ourselves first. There seems to be a lot of judging going on in our society .
Guess there always will be ,but I don't have to like it or add to it.

[TotallyInsane]

Do not be too sure.
My "source' claims that Elvis is in Australia and that someone here is a part of the "cover-up," :P ;)

Ok, just kidding. Couldn't resist .:lmfao:

Hey guys,
I would listen to this....Forest Gump always did seem to be ahead of everyone else!!! :lmfao::lmfao:

[cameron]

Hey guys,
I would listen to this....Forest Gump always did seem to be ahead of everyone else!!! :lmfao::lmfao:

Careful, woman. I might have to do away with you .
You[re beginning to know too much. :P

[utmom2008]

Careful, woman. I might have to do away with you .
You[re beginning to know too much. :P

You will have to take us both on...we come as a package!!:D And...please don't do anything until after our Memphis trip!;):P:supriced::blink:

[cameron]

You will have to take us both on...we come as a package!!:D And...please don't do anything until after our Memphis trip!;):P:supriced::blink:

Oh my!! For this job, I'll have to call on Getlo.
But, we'll wait until after Memphis - IF you keep your mouths shut. ;) :lmfao:
{He so hates to be used that way.}

[Getlo]

Getlo you and I have disagreed on this subject many times and I have given my reasons for it not being polypharmacy so I will not once again restate my opinion and my info on the subject. But I will say in short it has not been proven and there is disagreement in the medical community all the way back to 1977.

Then we shall all see when the autopsy results are released in 2027. But I suppose even they will not be enough for many people ...

[Getlo]

I can say without a doubt it had an affect on me and who I am.

Sure, but you made the choice whether or not to take drugs ... as did Elvis.

[cameron]

Then we shall all see when the autopsy results are released in 2027. But I suppose even they will not be enough for many people ...
Some people don't believe the lab reports; why would they believe the autopsy ?.;)

FYI: IF you'd check; Tennesse law won't release autopsy reports for 50 years on anybody.

[Getlo]

FYI: IF you'd check; Tennesse law won't release autopsy reports for 50 years on anybody.

What's your point? No one suggested otherwise ...

[cameron]

What's your point? No one suggested otherwise ...

If you don't know I see no reason to smash your theories.

[cameron]

Sure, but you made the choice whether or not to take drugs ... as did Elvis.


A very important fact you neglect ;
you have no idea what Elvis' physical condition was or if you could deal with it .
None of know until and unless it happens to us. ;)

[Getlo]

you have no idea what Elvis' physical condition was or if you could deal with it .

Elvis physical condition was very good, actually ... when he was in the army and chose to take the stuff for the first time; all through the sixties when he continued to make the choice to take it; and on through until '73 when he continued to make the choice to take the stuff.

[Frankieg]

Elvis Presley's death on August 16, 1977 was the result of "polypharmacy".

No more, No Less ...

Any other claim or delusional theories are erroneous and just plain bogus.

Sheesh ...

[cameron]

Elvis physical condition was very good, actually ... when he was in the army and chose to take the stuff for the first time; all through the sixties when he continued to make the choice to take it; and on through until '73 when he continued to make the choice to take the stuff.

You have no idea what his health was or any of his problems. Period.

[utmom2008]

You have no idea what his health was or any of his problems.

Do any of us really know?? :unsure::unsure::hmm:

[KPM]

Elvis Presley's death on August 16, 1977 was the result of "polypharmacy".

No more, No Less ...

Any other claim or delusional theories are erroneous and just plain bogus.

Sheesh ...
I do not consider any claim against polypharmacy to be delusional or bogus. I have posted a lot of info in the last couple of years which did not support the claim of polypharmacy as a direct cause of the heart attack. Including the statements by the gentleman who did a review of the autopsy results as based on lab work and the written report in 1994 for the state of Tennessee:
In 1994, the autopsy into Presley's death was re-opened. Coroner Dr. Joseph Davis declared: "There is nothing in any of the data that supports a death from drugs [i.e. drug overdose]. In fact, everything points to a sudden, violent heart attack."[140]
He did say that long term drug use did break down Elvis's body and helped cause his premature death. But that is not polypharmacy.
Dr. Joseph Davis, Chief Medical Examiner of Dade County, Miami Florida has testifed before Congress as an expert coroner on the Kennedy assassination in 1979 and on other matters during his long career.
Its funny that this highly respected man can review the autopsy directly for the state of Tennessee and with no reservations pronounce his conclusions of nothing to support a death from drugs-and so many ignore his findings.

[KPM]

Sure, but you made the choice whether or not to take drugs ... as did Elvis.
I did not sit down and say "Hey- guess what- I will take drugs to excess"
You seem to judge everyone by how you would react to it. Everyone is not you! My mind thinks, gets depressed, and reacts without me knowingly deciding some things. I did not set down and plan how my mind would react to stress, not horrid nightmares of seeing my Dad swinging from a rope. Perhaps Getlo you are that type individual whos life and upbringing had not affect on you. You are mentally able to understand all that is inside of you and you are always 100% consious of why you are choosing to act and be who you are. You evidently-do not have a subconsious flow of thought through your mind (which science has proven do help make your decisions.)
I tip my hat to you. I on the other hand can say without a doubt my subconscious does exist and it has played a hand in my life. I have never consciously decided to abuse drugs not alcohol in my past-but it happened.
You can choose to not believe that-but I know it to be true. I did not decide consciously to change many people helped to force me into seeing my self destructive inner demons. I have been straight for over 20 years. I still have nightmares( I do not choose to have them) I still get depressed (I do not choose to get depressed) I still have questions which race into my head about the whys of my life and the meaning of all I have lived through. But I was helped to see the inner subthoughts which directed my actions.(believe it or not shrinks can help people see what is unseeable otherwise)
Now as I have said You can speak with authority about yourself and what you would do in someone elses situations-but the situations were mine (as Elvis's were Elvis's) My upbringing was mine, you can not truely know what I chose to do-you can only guess because you are looking from what you have seen and you are comparing your thought process(on the surface and your inner self) to mine. "Walk a mile in my shoes"-is more than a song.
This is another matter you and I will never agree on. I see what you are thinking-you think I am just making excuses. I am not. It has taken 20 years to see what I have just put into a couple paragraphs.

[KPM]

Then we shall all see when the autopsy results are released in 2027. But I suppose even they will not be enough for many people ...
As I have pointed out in several similar threads-the autopsy was reviewed in 1994 for the state of Tennessee and Dr. Joseph Davis found no drug connection with the violent heart attack. I just reposted his exact statement in another post in this thread but you seem to not believe it. (This review is mentioned in a couple of books.) This guy was not a hack he is highly regarded pathologist who has testified before Congress as an expert. So if his review of the autopsy and all its findings found no drug connection to Elvis's heart attack doesn't that give some weight to the idea that it was simply a heart attack. His heritage, bad diet and drug use over time were factors -but the heart attack was not brought on by drugs or any combo of drugs . IMO and Dr. Davis's

[cameron]

As I have pointed out in several similar threads-the autopsy was reviewed in 1994 for the state of Tennessee and Dr. Joseph Davis found no drug connection with the violent heart attack. I just reposted his exact statement in another post in this thread but you seem to not believe it. (This review is mentioned in a couple of books.) This guy was not a hack he is highly regarded pathologist who has testified before Congress as an expert. So if his review of the autopsy and all its findings found no drug connection to Elvis's heart attack doesn't that give some weight to the idea that it was simply a heart attack. His heritage, bad diet and drug use over time were factors -but the heart attack was not brought on by drugs or any combo of drugs . IMO and Dr. Davis's

I agree and most anyone will that cares to read the whole history and reports over the years. From a medical stand point it wasn't considered anything except a heart attack. The media and "tell all" books are quite
a different thing. I guess it depends on your choice of reading material.:rolleyes:

[shelley.m.]

None of us will ever know,what was going through Elvis' mind the night before or on the day he passed away.Yes,he did have a drug problem.There's no question about that.Did he take his own life? Maybe? Like I said none of us will ever know. He's gone but not forgotten!!! Long Live The King of Rock&Roll.

[Getlo]

You have no idea what his health was or any of his problems. Period.

Oh, please hon, I know very well what his health problems were! There's enough info out there now (a lot of which is exaggerated - bone cancer, anyone?). But I suppose you'd have better insight than I ... you know, being a relative and all! ;)



Did he take his own life? Maybe? Like I said none of us will ever know.

Of course we know. Elvis Presley did not take his own life! He simply would not have done that to Lisa!

[cameron]

[
QUOTE=Getlo;199845]Oh, please hon, I know very well what his health problems were! There's enough info out there now (a lot of which is exaggerated - bone cancer, anyone?). But I suppose you'd have better insight than I ... you know, being a relative and all! ;)
I had no idea you are gay--{ nothing wrong with that some of my best friends are } You're just not my type in any way. So, you can stop the hon.




Of course we know. Elvis Presley did not take his own life! He simply would not have done that to Lisa

I don't think it had anything at all to do with Lisa. He just didn't believe in taking your own life.

[TotallyInsane]

Careful, woman. I might have to do away with you .
You[re beginning to know too much. :P

Don't how I missed this threat!! Surely you wouldn't???

[Getlo]

I had no idea you are gay

Well, you're the "man" who attends baby showers, so ... :rolleyes:

[cameron]

Well, you're the "man" who attends baby showers, so ... :rolleyes:

I imagine if you had daughters; you might too. ;)
Those women are a lot of fun.
Sorry, did I miss yours ? I told those girls to remind me.

[The King's Queen]

I did not sit down and say "Hey- guess what- I will take drugs to excess"
You seem to judge everyone by how you would react to it. Everyone is not you! My mind thinks, gets depressed, and reacts without me knowingly deciding some things. I did not set down and plan how my mind would react to stress, not horrid nightmares of seeing my Dad swinging from a rope. Perhaps Getlo you are that type individual whos life and upbringing had not affect on you. You are mentally able to understand all that is inside of you and you are always 100% consious of why you are choosing to act and be who you are. You evidently-do not have a subconsious flow of thought through your mind (which science has proven do help make your decisions.)
I tip my hat to you. I on the other hand can say without a doubt my subconscious does exist and it has played a hand in my life. I have never consciously decided to abuse drugs not alcohol in my past-but it happened.
You can choose to not believe that-but I know it to be true. I did not decide consciously to change many people helped to force me into seeing my self destructive inner demons. I have been straight for over 20 years. I still have nightmares( I do not choose to have them) I still get depressed (I do not choose to get depressed) I still have questions which race into my head about the whys of my life and the meaning of all I have lived through. But I was helped to see the inner subthoughts which directed my actions.(believe it or not shrinks can help people see what is unseeable otherwise)
Now as I have said You can speak with authority about yourself and what you would do in someone elses situations-but the situations were mine (as Elvis's were Elvis's) My upbringing was mine, you can not truely know what I chose to do-you can only guess because you are looking from what you have seen and you are comparing your thought process(on the surface and your inner self) to mine. "Walk a mile in my shoes"-is more than a song.
This is another matter you and I will never agree on. I see what you are thinking-you think I am just making excuses. I am not. It has taken 20 years to see what I have just put into a couple paragraphs.

Gotta agree with ya KPM...it is nearly impossible for one to see that clearly into another person's mentality...unless of course, they are qualified to do so, such as a psychiatrist is. We are humans, not robots or clones. What might affect me in a terrible manner, may not affect you at all. It's the difference in people. And as I've said before...I've watched my Father become addicted to narcotics, without his knowledge, and that has taught me first hand how easy it is to get caught in such a cycle. The fact that it comes from a legal prescription seeems to make some people feel that it is safe and harmless. I don't think that people who fall prey to that are delusional at all...I think that they just have that sort of mentality...whereas, I for one, having seen the effects of such thinking, would NEVER allow it to happen to me. Difference in people.

[The King's Queen]

Of course we know. Elvis Presley did not take his own life! He simply would not have done that to Lisa!

Sorry Getlo...but I don't think that we could know that for sure. :blink: I'm sure he loved her...he thought she hung the moon and all that...but still, to presume to know that he would consider her over his own desire, if he had one, to end his own life is assuming. And I think that is exactly what we do when we project our opinions of his health as well. ;)


I imagine if you had daughters; you might too. ;)
Those women are a lot of fun.
Sorry, did I miss yours ? I told those girls to remind me.

:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao: Geeze cameron...I thought for sure that Gail and Rosanne would remind you...:blink:...that's the last time I depend on them! :lol:;)

[TotallyInsane]

Sorry Getlo...but I don't think that we could know that for sure. :blink: I'm sure he loved her...he thought she hung the moon and all that...but still, to presume to know that he would consider her over his own desire, if he had one, to end his own life is assuming. And I think that is exactly what we do when we project our opinions of his health as well. ;)



:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao: Geeze cameron...I thought for sure that Gail and Rosanne would remind you...:blink:...that's the last time I depend on them! :lol:;)


We dropped the ball again!!! :doh::doh:

[cameron]

[B][COLOR="red"]:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao: Geeze cameron...I thought for sure that Gail and Rosanne would remind you...:blink:...that's the last time I depend on them! :lol:;)

I was sure they'd remind me . :hmm: Maybe it hasn'i happened yet??
Those girls better get their act together --or Graceland is off ! :lmfao:;)

[The King's Queen]

We dropped the ball again!!! :doh::doh:

:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao: Well gee whiz Gail...can I at least depend on you two for the Pris wigs and shovel??? :supriced:;)


I was sure they'd remind me . :hmm: Maybe it hasn'i happened yet??
Those girls better get their act together --or Graceland is off ! :lmfao:;)

:blink: Soooo...does this mean you have decided to climb aboard the ol' bus and brave going to Graceland with us looney tunes??? ;)

[TotallyInsane]

Cameron -
Did you decide to go with us? The bus is filling up quick - better speak up!!!!

[TotallyInsane]

We all gonna be doing the "Dixieland Rock".....