Elvis' childhood friend Sam Bell who grew up with him in Tupelo

[vivaelvis]

This is some good stuff! Sam Bell, who grew up with Elvis in Tupelo tells of how Vernon once built them a tree house, and how Elvis knew from a very young age that he would one day be famous. He also says Elvis didn't have a racist bone in his body.(y)


http://www.elvis.com/photos-video/legacy_project.aspx?id=103

[mistymorning]

very precious memories .Very lucky persons to have mutual memories with the king

[vivaelvis]

One of the reasons why Elvis is seen as a racist is because for years EPE and Graceland have chosen to cater to one group of fans (white) and that has cost them and could hurt his future as race relations grow. Stories like Mr Bell's should be commercialized or at least spoken of to show the real Elvis and not the sugarcoated version that EPE presents. Have you ever noticed that the black cultural influence is hardly ever a part of the Elvis story? Never do you hear of how it all became. That's why blacks in general think he was a racist.

[debtdbruno]

saw him in Memphis 2010 at '75'th Birthday, gave a good talk

[KPM]

One of the reasons why Elvis is seen as a racist is because for years EPE and Graceland have chosen to cater to one group of fans (white) and that has cost them and could hurt his future as race relations grow. Stories like Mr Bell's should be commercialized or at least spoken of to show the real Elvis and not the sugarcoated version that EPE presents. Have you ever noticed that the black cultural influence is hardly ever a part of the Elvis story? Never do you hear of how it all became. That's why blacks in general think he was a racist.
Once again EPE is the villain..........EPE somehow propagated the image of Elvis the racist, EPE somehow instigated the sale of Elvis's pre 73 catalogue, EPE kept Elvis from touring Europe, EPE never negotiated movie deals that gave Elvis some form of ownership in his films, EPE wants to offer Holy Land trips and that will anger Muslims, EPE- fill in the blank is the reason............
I always seem to be defending them, but only because I truely do not see it the way you do....and I have many times shown why.
They are not perfect-but they did what was instructed and with no creative control or ownership of music or film.
Your take on them is much like my opening paragraph.......remember EPE was not around in the 50s and Elvis was seen as a racist way back then based on rumors of things he was suppose to have said, things he was suppose to have done and the misinformed idea that he somehow stole his music from Black Americans. All of that was addressed-and reasonable people of all races and colors accepted that he was not, in fact, a racist.
Now for the last 50 plus years those mistaken rumors have been shot down-and still the image persists-"among unreasonable people" who would not accept the truth if their own minister or clergyman gave it to them.
I have talked with reasonable people (of all kinds) and even if they are misinformed if you give them some facts which can be backed up-they see they just did not have the whole true story.
I have talked to unreasonable people (of all kinds) and even if they are misinformed and you give them some facts which can be backed up-they never see the whole story.
I use to post on TOPIX and had many a discussion with young black individuals about Elvis-I would give them link after link that provided sourcing for the 1957 Jet Magazine article written by a black editor for the mag-which discounted the Elvis is a racist nonsense-they called it lies.
I provided quotes from Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino, Otis Blackwell, BB King, Rufus Thomas, The Sweet Inspirations, Barbara McNair, Jackie Wilson, etc...............I have actually been told I was lying and making them up (even though several links were provided).
I told the story of the Christmas gift of an electric wheelchair to the older black lady in Memphis-to be told it was made up sh**!

M. Jackson claimed in the late 90s that Elvis stole his music from Otis Blackwell and that Blackwell was never paid his share-totally untrue-after Elvis died Blackwell did a tribute album to Elvis, Blackwell said on Carson that his association with Elvis was a great moneymaking opportunity for a songwriter. But Jackson was believed by "unreasonable people" who did not want to believe otherwise....you can not combat closed mindedness and unfortunately today in 2012 with rap music and hip hop being the most popular music among young African Americans (as well as many white, Hispanics, and others) Elvis music does move move in rap circles.....and it never will.
ALLC and Rubberneckin were about as close to rap as Elvis ever got-and they did pretty well when released in the remixed versions.
But not many other Elvis songs will have the meter and rhythm that those songs had-which allowed the rap like remix.

I must totally disagree that the Black Culture which influenced Elvis has hardly ever been apart of the story of Elvis Presley.
Look at the Elvis Lives special, black artists were a part of that, there has never been a whitewash of his musical roots nor his respect for black peers............ BUT-the Black influence is no more important than Dean Martins influence, nor Hank Snows influence nor, Ernest Tubbs influence, nor Hovie Listers influence, or JD Sumners influence, or any high tenor Elvis admired.......IE R&B, Pop, Country and Gospel-all this is part of Elvis Presley music.......since Elvis cut all gospel albums, all country albums, and all pop albums in his career...but not all blues or R&B you could make the case that it was not the biggest influence upon his music.
Sorry the reasoning that EPE is the reason Elvis does not have a huge African American following is just IMO totally offbase.
You can not force respect, you can not force reasonable thought or investigation into matters that people just take at face value as true.
Sure you could have a huge campaign to show Elvis is not a racist-but the people who think he is -would not give the time of day to it.
You and I just see so many things totally different.

[buttonhead]

..I think we need to be careful with the word 'racists' ... there are still part of this world that hurt by it, it still quite of controversial isssue ,..and to put it as a part of Elvis legacy to me that's just wrong.

[KPM]

..I think we need to be careful with the word 'racists' ... there are still part of this world that hurt by it, it still quite of controversial isssue ,..and to put it as a part of Elvis legacy to me that's just wrong.
I agree, every time I see the word I cringe. Elvis was not a racist, there is no doubt in my mind.
I do not believe he stole anyones music, nor intentionally slighted anyone because of race creed or color.
But some people will never believe Elvis was not racist-no amount of fact, reason, or explaination will change that.

[vivaelvis]

Once again EPE is the villain..........EPE somehow propagated the image of Elvis the racist, EPE somehow instigated the sale of Elvis's pre 73 catalogue, EPE kept Elvis from touring Europe, EPE never negotiated movie deals that gave Elvis some form of ownership in his films, EPE wants to offer Holy Land trips and that will anger Muslims, EPE- fill in the blank is the reason............
I always seem to be defending them, but only because I truely do not see it the way you do....and I have many times shown why.
They are not perfect-but they did what was instructed and with no creative control or ownership of music or film.
Your take on them is much like my opening paragraph.......remember EPE was not around in the 50s and Elvis was seen as a racist way back then based on rumors of things he was suppose to have said, things he was suppose to have done and the misinformed idea that he somehow stole his music from Black Americans. All of that was addressed-and reasonable people of all races and colors accepted that he was not, in fact, a racist.
Now for the last 50 plus years those mistaken rumors have been shot down-and still the image persists-"among unreasonable people" who would not accept the truth if their own minister or clergyman gave it to them.
I have talked with reasonable people (of all kinds) and even if they are misinformed if you give them some facts which can be backed up-they see they just did not have the whole true story.
I have talked to unreasonable people (of all kinds) and even if they are misinformed and you give them some facts which can be backed up-they never see the whole story.
I use to post on TOPIX and had many a discussion with young black individuals about Elvis-I would give them link after link that provided sourcing for the 1957 Jet Magazine article written by a black editor for the mag-which discounted the Elvis is a racist nonsense-they called it lies.
I provided quotes from Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino, Otis Blackwell, BB King, Rufus Thomas, The Sweet Inspirations, Barbara McNair, Jackie Wilson, etc...............I have actually been told I was lying and making them up (even though several links were provided).
I told the story of the Christmas gift of an electric wheelchair to the older black lady in Memphis-to be told it was made up sh**!

M. Jackson claimed in the late 90s that Elvis stole his music from Otis Blackwell and that Blackwell was never paid his share-totally untrue-after Elvis died Blackwell did a tribute album to Elvis, Blackwell said on Carson that his association with Elvis was a great moneymaking opportunity for a songwriter. But Jackson was believed by "unreasonable people" who did not want to believe otherwise....you can not combat closed mindedness and unfortunately today in 2012 with rap music and hip hop being the most popular music among young African Americans (as well as many white, Hispanics, and others) Elvis music does move move in rap circles.....and it never will.
ALLC and Rubberneckin were about as close to rap as Elvis ever got-and they did pretty well when released in the remixed versions.
But not many other Elvis songs will have the meter and rhythm that those songs had-which allowed the rap like remix.

I must totally disagree that the Black Culture which influenced Elvis has hardly ever been apart of the story of Elvis Presley.
Look at the Elvis Lives special, black artists were a part of that, there has never been a whitewash of his musical roots nor his respect for black peers............ BUT-the Black influence is no more important than Dean Martins influence, nor Hank Snows influence nor, Ernest Tubbs influence, nor Hovie Listers influence, or JD Sumners influence, or any high tenor Elvis admired.......IE R&B, Pop, Country and Gospel-all this is part of Elvis Presley music.......since Elvis cut all gospel albums, all country albums, and all pop albums in his career...but not all blues or R&B you could make the case that it was not the biggest influence upon his music.
Sorry the reasoning that EPE is the reason Elvis does not have a huge African American following is just IMO totally offbase.
You can not force respect, you can not force reasonable thought or investigation into matters that people just take at face value as true.
Sure you could have a huge campaign to show Elvis is not a racist-but the people who think he is -would not give the time of day to it.
You and I just see so many things totally different.


Who is M. Jackson? It can't be Michael because he was married to Lisa and was always around former Elvis associates and connections. He never hardly spoke publicly of Elvis and when he did he credited him. He even appeared at the tribute concert for Elvis at the Pyramid (in which I too was in attendance at) in 1994 and was introduced to the audience by host John Stamos. Michael even visited Graceland.

EPE was indeed around in the 50's. That was when Elvis founded it with his cousin Gene Smith. It started out basically as just a small family business. Elvis did it because he had always wanted to own his own enterprise. As the years went on, he expended the company. Vernon even had a secretary in a downtown office in the 70's. People assume that Priscilla and Soden started it when they just continued and expended it when they opened the home to the public.

When I say the black side of Elvis is ignored or overlooked, I am referring to the movies or documentaries. Elvis Lives and the ABC special that featured blacks who never met Elvis wasn't what I was referring to. I am referring to the ones who did, the stories of his good will during tough racial times, such as the episode of the short lived Elvis mini series where he goes back to Tupelo and meets up with an old friend who is black and they recall their days as children. That was the only time I saw EPE or Elvis' image allowed to be seen as it was and not as they want it to look like. If you think that EPE has not sugarcoated his image over the year and cut things out to protect his image for business purposes, then you're fooling yourself. They most certainly have.

I totally disagree with your last sentence. If EPE had over the years reached out to ALL and not just certain race groups then we would not have all this Elvis racist stuff to begin with. They're doing it now but it might be too late. They should have been doing those things many, many years ago. Why do you think they are caring now? Because they now understand that blacks are growing in a large population and having the largest influence on modern society and that could effect their near future revenue. White society today is heavily influenced by black culture, the same way a young Elvis Presley was over 60 years ago.

[KPM]

Who is M. Jackson? It can't be Michael because he was married to Lisa and was always around former Elvis associates and connections. He never hardly spoke publicly of Elvis and when he did he credited him. He even appeared at the tribute concert for Elvis at the Pyramid (in which I too was in attendance at) in 1994 and was introduced to the audience by host John Stamos. Michael even visited Graceland.

EPE was indeed around in the 50's. That was when Elvis founded it with his cousin Gene Smith. It started out basically as just a small family business. Elvis did it because he had always wanted to own his own enterprise. As the years went on, he expended the company. Vernon even had a secretary in a downtown office in the 70's. People assume that Priscilla and Soden started it when they just continued and expended it when they opened the home to the public.

When I say the black side of Elvis is ignored or overlooked, I am referring to the movies or documentaries. Elvis Lives and the ABC special that featured blacks who never met Elvis wasn't what I was referring to. I am referring to the ones who did, the stories of his good will during tough racial times, such as the episode of the short lived Elvis mini series where he goes back to Tupelo and meets up with an old friend who is black and they recall their days as children. That was the only time I saw EPE or Elvis' image allowed to be seen as it was and not as they want it to look like. If you think that EPE has not sugarcoated his image over the year and cut things out to protect his image for business purposes, then you're fooling yourself. They most certainly have.

I totally disagree with your last sentence. If EPE had over the years reached out to ALL and not just certain race groups then we would not have all this Elvis racist stuff to begin with. They're doing it now but it might be too late. They should have been doing those things many, many years ago. Why do you think they are caring now? Because they now understand that blacks are growing in a large population and having the largest influence on modern society and that could effect their near future revenue. White society today is heavily influenced by black culture, the same way a young Elvis Presley was over 60 years ago.
Yes indeed it is Michael Jackson-their is video footage of MJ with Rev Al Sharpton and others speaking I believe in LA and MJ brought up the fact about Otis Blackwell during one of his trials.....I will make it my mission to find the clip or transcript of that moment just for you.
You and I know that EPE today is not the same EPE started in 1950.

As far as EPE reaching out over time to ethnic groups "......then we would not have all this Elvis racist stuff to begin with" it began in he 50s and it has never really left "among unreasonable uniformed people"
Once again I am interested-what should have been done over time that would have "dispelled the racist image among the unreasonable uninformed people who hold that belief?
There is an old saying that I will paraphase for you "those who know the truth can not be fooled, but fools who think they know the truth can never be convinced"
Unreasonable people of all colors, creed,s and religions.... 99% of the time can never be convinced of any truth except the one that they have settled upon.
But tell me what you would have done over time that would have changed all those who ignore well known facts that dispute Elvis as racist.
Heres a link to show you some of the total opposition to Elvis as and artist and innovator read some of the comments at the end of the article.:
http://www.whudat.com/newsblurbs/more/jill_scotts_new_album_the_real_thing_and_big_mama_ thornton_168052107/

[KPM]

Here just for you Viva is a partial transcript of some of MJacksons comments in which he mentioned Elvis and Otis Blackwell. I will keep looking for the video this happened on July 09th 2002 at a rally called "Equality for Blacks in Music World":
http://www.mjfanclub.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=248:equality-for-blacks-in-music-world-july-9-2002&catid=100:interviews-and-speeches&Itemid=79

[vivaelvis]

Nowhere in that transcription did Michael say that Elvis himself ripped off blacks. He said that Otis didn't get a book written on him for his great work. Plus, that was when MJ was facing pressure form thge black community that he didn't care nor considered himself black. After he died, artifacts removed from Michael's house revealed a photo on his bedroom wall of Elvis and one with him and Elvis together in a depiction of The Last Supper.

Funny though that a man who was born black, but then bleached his skin to look white to fit in with a whiter society, all of a sudden wanted to cry "I'm black and I'm proud". :lol:

As for what would I have done to better his image among blacks? For starters, I would have promoted him into the black community just as they did the white community. I would have done special cultural exhibits showcasing his black musical influence and how he admired so many black musicians and how they admired him in return. I would have done a special Elvis & Black History Month celebration for African Americans. I would have maybe opened Graceland for a day during Black History month to locals for free to those who don't have the money to see it to allow them that opportunity.

Those little things could have gone a very long way in bringing respect to Elvis from the black community.

[KPM]

Heres the straight information about EPE which shows the 1954 EPE is not the same company that runs the estate today:
The original EPE was set up in 1954 by Elvis Presley's then manager, Bob Neal, to exploit what he hoped would be profitable merchandise opportunities then Elvis signed with Colonel Tom Parker in 1955, EPE became a part of Parker's operations and ceased to officially exist.
The current Elvis Presley Enterprises, Inc. (EPE) is a corporate entity created by "The Elvis Presley Trust" (formed to manage the estate for Lisa)to conduct business and manage its assets, including Graceland. EPE's business extends far beyond the Graceland operation, however, and includes worldwide licensing of Elvis-related products and ventures, the development of Elvis-related music, film, video, television and stage productions, the ongoing development of EPE's Internet presence, the management of significant music publishing assets and more......

[vivaelvis]

Heres the straight information about EPE which shows the 1954 EPE is not the same company that runs the estate today:
The original EPE was set up in 1954 by Elvis Presley's then manager, Bob Neal, to exploit what he hoped would be profitable merchandise opportunities then Elvis signed with Colonel Tom Parker in 1955, EPE became a part of Parker's operations and ceased to officially exist.
The current Elvis Presley Enterprises, Inc. (EPE) is a corporate entity created by "The Elvis Presley Trust" (formed to manage the estate for Lisa)to conduct business and manage its assets, including Graceland. EPE's business extends far beyond the Graceland operation, however, and includes worldwide licensing of Elvis-related products and ventures, the development of Elvis-related music, film, video, television and stage productions, the ongoing development of EPE's Internet presence, the management of significant music publishing assets and more......

It says in his own will (and no I do not have a copy of it to link to anyone) that he wanted his estate to grow and expand. They did that when they opened Graceland to the public and turned it into a small business which is now turning into a corporation.

[KPM]

It says in his own will (and no I do not have a copy of it to link to anyone) that he wanted his estate to grow and expand. They did that when they opened Graceland to the public and turned it into a small business which is now turning into a corporation.
Yes that is exactly what they did-but the the 1954 EPE was not involved it was no longer an entity-trust for Lisa was formed and it used the same title-but not one thing from the 1954 operation was incorportated in any way shape or form.
I do have a copy of the will and in legal terms it says the goal was to protect the estate for Lisas welfare and benefit-IMO the probate judge did more to save the estate than anyone at the time-he looked over endless financial deal, contracts, sub contracts, deal for films recording, and merchandising and appearances at hotels-he saw how much money was going out for years to Parker and how much his deals were more self serving to him than to Elvis. He saw Conflict of Interest in nearly every avenue of his dealings for Elvis.
Lisa is now protected for a couple generations if they close Graceland tomorrow-personally that would suit me fine.
Sony will never sell the music, the films are still making money for all the differing companies who own them and someday they may want to sell but not in the near future. So EPE IMO is in a no-win situation no matter what they do good bad inbetween they will always be seen negatively by most.....even though they have totally with no if ands or buts successfully fullfilled the wishes of Elvis.
When someone or thing is in a "can't win no matter which way you go" situation-I know the reality of that in my own lifes highs and lows-and I will understand the feeling of being in that position(when its justified and fair)

[vivaelvis]

Yes that is exactly what they did-but the the 1954 EPE was not involved it was no longer an entity-trust for Lisa was formed and it used the same title-but not one thing from the 1954 operation was incorportated in any way shape or form.
I do have a copy of the will and in legal terms it says the goal was to protect the estate for Lisas welfare and benefit-IMO the probate judge did more to save the estate than anyone at the time-he looked over endless financial deal, contracts, sub contracts, deal for films recording, and merchandising and appearances at hotels-he saw how much money was going out for years to Parker and how much his deals were more self serving to him than to Elvis. He saw Conflict of Interest in nearly every avenue of his dealings for Elvis.
Lisa is now protected for a couple generations if they close Graceland tomorrow-personally that would suit me fine.
Sony will never sell the music, the films are still making money for all the differing companies who own them and someday they may want to sell but not in the near future. So EPE IMO is in a no-win situation no matter what they do good bad inbetween they will always be seen negatively by most.....even though they have totally with no if ands or buts successfully fullfilled the wishes of Elvis.
When someone or thing is in a "can't win no matter which way you go" situation-I know the reality of that in my own lifes highs and lows-and I will understand the feeling of being in that position(when its justified and fair)

I don't want to see Graceland ever close. It would only look bad on Elvis' part. It would give people the impression that he has finally reached the end and that the public no longer cares. However, I do hope that one day there will be a better leadership in place.

Something else that could eventually happen. EPE could one day own or share the music and the movie rights. How? Apollo is looking to increase their portfolio with more entertainment company assets in the near future. They could eventually buy up Sony Music should it ever need private equity and that could happen with decreasing music sales happening and Sony losing million because of it. It's also possible that Apollo could buy out Time-Warner. If that were to happen, then you could see some type of new rights sharing between Apollo and EPE in the works. It's a long shot and a "what if" scenario. But it's possible.

[rocknroll]

Jay? Lakeisha? Jaykeisha?

This all sounds earily familiar. With time, old tendancies creep back in.

[vivaelvis]

Jay? Lakeisha? Jaykeisha?

This all sounds earily familiar. With time, old tendancies creep back in.

Nope. But you're not the first to accuse me of being that person. I guess certain subjects are controversial in the Elvis world.

[KPM]

I don't want to see Graceland ever close. It would only look bad on Elvis' part. It would give people the impression that he has finally reached the end and that the public no longer cares. However, I do hope that one day there will be a better leadership in place.

Something else that could eventually happen. EPE could one day own or share the music and the movie rights. How? Apollo is looking to increase their portfolio with more entertainment company assets in the near future. They could eventually buy up Sony Music should it ever need private equity and that could happen with decreasing music sales happening and Sony losing million because of it. It's also possible that Apollo could buy out Time-Warner. If that were to happen, then you could see some type of new rights sharing between Apollo and EPE in the works. It's a long shot and a "what if" scenario. But it's possible.
Lisa can not close Graceland-Apollo has the 85% interest and they have the whats left of the 99 year lease that Sillerman negotiated....I was speaking in a philosophical way about that................................in other words IMO EPE has fullfilled the will, they are criticized no matter what they do (in some cases rightly so, in others not) they have been successful....but get no credit. They are in a no win scenario and I have told you IMO that is unfair.
Sorry as far as buying Sony-the same scenarios were made here in 2005-2008 only replace the word Sillerman for Apollo.......Sillerman was going to buy Sony, buy TTWII and EOT then there would have been no problem for EPE to use music, film clips etc.........never happpened. You have said that Apollo was worth something like 70 billion in another thread-and that Sillerman was only worth a couple billion back in 2005....but in that thread I pointed out that Apollo was only worth around 7-8 billion and the large figure you gave was actually money they controlled for investments for others.
But lets go with the idea that Sillerman or Apollo could acquire Sony....Sony would not just relinquish the music over to EPE lock stock and barrel they would still be required to pay royaltees for the use as any other company would- its not like the music then becomes the property of EPE and Sony takes a loss on the worth of the music.....perhaps a better deal could be worked out for the use-but it still would not come free and EPE would still not get the huge income from the artist royaltees Sony would still own those rights.
Its just not so cut and dry as you appear to think.
The films may eventually make their way into EPE hands but I will give you a prediction that it will be a long time coming. and will occur a few at a time...the films will have to cease to be thought of as profitable.....and as long as they can be repackaged every 5 years with a new video format like Blueray they will continue to see and turn a profit with virtually no overhead-thats type product is not sold outright by any company.
So I agree with you final thought-Its a long shot scenario..... very long.

[KPM]

Jay? Lakeisha? Jaykeisha?This all sounds earily familiar. With time, old tendancies creep back in.
Thank you for recalling those names-indeed thats who this debate reminds me of. I can almost recall the same type threads with the exception of the name Apollo-replace it with CKX/Sillerman.

[vivaelvis]

Lisa can not close Graceland-Apollo has the 85% interest and they have the whats left of the 99 year lease that Sillerman negotiated....I was speaking in a philosophical way about that................................in other words IMO EPE has fullfilled the will, they are criticized no matter what they do (in some cases rightly so, in others not) they have been successful....but get no credit. They are in a no win scenario and I have told you IMO that is unfair.
Sorry as far as buying Sony-the same scenarios were made here in 2005-2008 only replace the word Sillerman for Apollo.......Sillerman was going to buy Sony, buy TTWII and EOT then there would have been no problem for EPE to use music, film clips etc.........never happpened. You have said that Apollo was worth something like 70 billion in another thread-and that Sillerman was only worth a couple billion back in 2005....but in that thread I pointed out that Apollo was only worth around 7-8 billion and the large figure you gave was actually money they controlled for investments for others.
But lets go with the idea that Sillerman or Apollo could acquire Sony....Sony would not just relinquish the music over to EPE lock stock and barrel they would still be required to pay royaltees for the use as any other company would- its not like the music then becomes the property of EPE and Sony takes a loss on the worth of the music.....perhaps a better deal could be worked out for the use-but it still would not come free and EPE would still not get the huge income from the artist royaltees Sony would still own those rights.
Its just not so cut and dry as you appear to think.
The films may eventually make their way into EPE hands but I will give you a prediction that it will be a long time coming. and will occur a few at a time...the films will have to cease to be thought of as profitable.....and as long as they can be repackaged every 5 years with a new video format like Blueray they will continue to see and turn a profit with virtually no overhead-thats type product is not sold outright by any company.
So I agree with you final thought-Its a long shot scenario..... very long.

I never mentioned Lisa, I never said EPE would own anything for free. I said they could have a share in the rights. Not own. So I do not understand where half of your post came from. I actually tired of having to defend my stance on this with you. In fact, you're the only poster I do have to defend it on. :hmm:

And for the last time. The Sillerman situation and the new ownership are like comparing apples to oranges. Eventually you will see this. Sillerman was a one-man investor running his own company. Apollo is a mass private equity firm. That title alone overshadows anything that Sillerman could, would or will ever be. I misquoted the Apollo networth. It wasn't $70-80 billion, it was $8 billion. But Sillerman's wasn't even a full $1 billion. Apollo has however invested over $80 billion into their assets.

[vivaelvis]

Thank you for recalling those names-indeed thats who this debate reminds me of. I can almost recall the same type threads with the exception of the name Apollo-replace it with CKX/Sillerman.

And no, I am NOT that person nor have you and I debated this topic prior to my existence on this forum which began back in 2010. I wasn't here during the Sillerman takeover. Just because someone doe not see your views does not give you or anyone else the right to accuse them of being someone else.

[KPM]

And no, I am NOT that person nor have you and I debated this topic prior to my existence on this forum which began back in 2010. I wasn't here during the Sillerman takeover. Just because someone doe not see your views does not give you or anyone else the right to accuse them of being someone else.
I beg to differ....I did not accuse you of anything-I asked you a legit question about whether or not you had posted under another name in the past, or if you had changed your posting name and I had missed the change( it happend)......why so defensive?
It is not because you do not see my views that spurred me to ask this question, it was the topics you seem passionate about and your take on them.
race, Elvis gaining black respect, trying to grab their attention
new directions and redevelopement by Apollo (or in the past CKX)
the idea that if huge changes are not made Elvis will somehow be forgotten.....................
Exactly the points that were of primary concern to the names mentioned
They supposedly lived in Memphis
These individuals (or individual) also had "an unnamed insider" who was affiliated in someway with the Memphis board and their information was attributed to this person.
These individuals were familiar to others here from other forums (not to me but others as I do not post on other Elvis forums-occasionally on Topix)

Now can you see a similarity with you- that would remind some here of these other individuals?
I could not recall those individuals names nor how they left here, but someone did see very real similarity.-so its just not me.
You can agree or disagree with me on whatever subject does not matter to me who you are-you have a right to your opinions and so does everyone....but when anyone makes a definitive comment-IE a comment that supposedly is rock solid in fact.... you should not get upset if sourcing is asked for. As you asked me about the negative MJ comments about Elvis-you mentioned you had never heard of this and asked where that came from, you then mentioned he married Lisa, he was at the celebration in 94, he visited Graceland, he always spoke well of Elvis etc........if you saw my reply I finally found a partial transcript of those comments and when they were spoken, what the occasion was......I understood you had never heard this and you wanted proof of what I posted-I gave it to you....... no problem on my end that you asked.
IMO too many things on the Internet in general are posted which have no basis in fact-but are opinion and wishful thinking. So I see nothing wrong in anyone wanting proof of something said or posted-seems fair for everyone.
The Internet is a great thing, but it also is used to misinform, scam, and create havoc for honest people.
You mentioned in another post-lets agree to disagree and that does not make you wrong and someone else right-on subjective speculative questions that is true, but many questions are not subjective-on those type questions there is a side which is right and a side which is wrong.
It makes no difference who is asking any type question-if I see a discrepancy I question it, it I agree I agree-If I am skeptical I ask for a source and I fully expect to have the same thing done to me-fair for all.

[vivaelvis]

I beg to differ....I did not accuse you of anything-I asked you a legit question about whether or not you had posted under another name in the past, or if you had changed your posting name and I had missed the change( it happend)......why so defensive?
It is not because you do not see my views that spurred me to ask this question, it was the topics you seem passionate about and your take on them.
race, Elvis gaining black respect, trying to grab their attention
new directions and redevelopement by Apollo (or in the past CKX)
the idea that if huge changes are not made Elvis will somehow be forgotten.....................
Exactly the points that were of primary concern to the names mentioned
They supposedly lived in Memphis
These individuals (or individual) also had "an unnamed insider" who was affiliated in someway with the Memphis board and their information was attributed to this person.
These individuals were familiar to others here from other forums (not to me but others as I do not post on other Elvis forums-occasionally on Topix)

Now can you see a similarity with you- that would remind some here of these other individuals?
I could not recall those individuals names nor how they left here, but someone did see very real similarity.-so its just not me.
You can agree or disagree with me on whatever subject does not matter to me who you are-you have a right to your opinions and so does everyone....but when anyone makes a definitive comment-IE a comment that supposedly is rock solid in fact.... you should not get upset if sourcing is asked for. As you asked me about the negative MJ comments about Elvis-you mentioned you had never heard of this and asked where that came from, you then mentioned he married Lisa, he was at the celebration in 94, he visited Graceland, he always spoke well of Elvis etc........if you saw my reply I finally found a partial transcript of those comments and when they were spoken, what the occasion was......I understood you had never heard this and you wanted proof of what I posted-I gave it to you....... no problem on my end that you asked.
IMO too many things on the Internet in general are posted which have no basis in fact-but are opinion and wishful thinking. So I see nothing wrong in anyone wanting proof of something said or posted-seems fair for everyone.
The Internet is a great thing, but it also is used to misinform, scam, and create havoc for honest people.
You mentioned in another post-lets agree to disagree and that does not make you wrong and someone else right-on subjective speculative questions that is true, but many questions are not subjective-on those type questions there is a side which is right and a side which is wrong.
It makes no difference who is asking any type question-if I see a discrepancy I question it, it I agree I agree-If I am skeptical I ask for a source and I fully expect to have the same thing done to me-fair for all.

OK, first of all, I am NOT obsessed nor just interested in those categories and subjects that you mentioned. I am however more concerned with the image being promoted more than the man. Every true Elvis fan should be imo. I only care about what blacks think simply because they are a large percentage of the US population now and are having a big say in how our society is being driven these days. Same goes with the Hispanics.

I couldn't care less what others from the past might have said or thought or what their likes were. There are over 1 million people living in Memphis. It's not some hick town with about 50. Just because someone from the past was from there or even might have known someone connected to the council does not make them me or me them. That's preposterous to even think that. You have made that a big deal since I have been here. Now I know why you question everyone of my posts. For all we know they could have been lying the whole time. I don't know as I wasn't here back then. So I can't say for sure. I knew some people in Memphis who were and still are big Elvis fans. Some care more about Graceland and the impact it has on their city than they ever have the man and his music. Others couldn't care less about Elvis. That's just the way it is there.

And no, I cannot see a similarity in my posts and others. I post what I know and what I am told. If you chose to not believe it that's your choice to make. I'm not going to come here, waste my time, and debate something I know as fact or truth to some who are going to believe what they want anyhow.

[KPM]

Nowhere in that transcription did Michael say that Elvis himself ripped off blacks. He said that Otis didn't get a book written on him for his great work. Plus, that was when MJ was facing pressure form thge black community that he didn't care nor considered himself black. After he died, artifacts removed from Michael's house revealed a photo on his bedroom wall of Elvis and one with him and Elvis together in a depiction of The Last Supper.

Funny though that a man who was born black, but then bleached his skin to look white to fit in with a whiter society, all of a sudden wanted to cry "I'm black and I'm proud". :lol:

As for what would I have done to better his image among blacks? For starters, I would have promoted him into the black community just as they did the white community. I would have done special cultural exhibits showcasing his black musical influence and how he admired so many black musicians and how they admired him in return. I would have done a special Elvis & Black History Month celebration for African Americans. I would have maybe opened Graceland for a day during Black History month to locals for free to those who don't have the money to see it to allow them that opportunity.

Those little things could have gone a very long way in bringing respect to Elvis from the black community.
This was a partial transcript of "Selected items" not the full speech by MJ nor other speakers. I was made aware of this event and MJs comments on TOPIX by a very ravid MJ fan who posted the speech in full and a link to a video of the event....this fan felt it showed MJ thought Elvis stole his music, songs and style. I will continue to look for the full video of this event.
But the implication was there even in the "selected items of the speech" .......... The Mention Elvis, they mention the Stone......something wrong with the system....Blackwell died penniless after penning All Shook Up and Dont Be Cruel etc.....
You mention a couple things on how to promote Elvis to the Black Community-one very broad "you would promote him like he was promoted to the white communtity???"
I think your ideas about Black History month have merit but I doubt you would see a huge changes-if you listen to rap, or hiphop Elvis is just not relevant. They will never be potential Elvis music buyers-the gap is to great. Country fans, yes huge potential in getting them to buy Elvis, pop fans great potential, Middle of the Road-great potention. Not Rap fans, sorry but very little potential.
I'm sure you are aware of Demographics-more or less a study of who buys your products and why-its by age, race, color gender, etc....
EPE is very aware of the Demographics of their visitors and people who buy their product-they have people who keep and research those stats-and I can tell you that every business does want to attract people who are not in the top Demographics for their products (does not matter if it is soap, burgers, soda, beer, or Elvis)but they geer their products advertisements and goals to the top Demographic numbers. They will have broad campaigns not individual campaigns for each group by age gender or color.
Actually the top growing part of US population is espanic from figures I have seen-but I do not think we will see a huge campaign aimed at Mexicans.

Coke might, Pepsi might, McDonalds might-huge multi billion dollar companies with advertising budgets to match who spend hundreds of millions on ads of all kinds...companies which buy Superbowl time-they have mini campaigns among their broad ads-but they have the money.

[vivaelvis]

This was a partial transcript of "Selected items" not the full speech by MJ nor other speakers. I was made aware of this event and MJs comments on TOPIX by a very ravid MJ fan who posted the speech in full and a link to a video of the event....this fan felt it showed MJ thought Elvis stole his music, songs and style. I will continue to look for the full video of this event.
But the implication was there even in the "selected items of the speech" .......... The Mention Elvis, they mention the Stone......something wrong with the system....Blackwell died penniless after penning All Shook Up and Dont Be Cruel etc.....
You mention a couple things on how to promote Elvis to the Black Community-one very broad "you would promote him like he was promoted to the white communtity???"
I think your ideas about Black History month have merit but I doubt you would see a huge changes-if you listen to rap, or hiphop Elvis is just not relevant. They will never be potential Elvis music buyers-the gap is to great. Country fans, yes huge potential in getting them to buy Elvis, pop fans great potential, Middle of the Road-great potention. Not Rap fans, sorry but very little potential.
I'm sure you are aware of Demographics-more or less a study of who buys your products and why-its by age, race, color gender, etc....
EPE is very aware of the Demographics of their visitors and people who buy their product-they have people who keep and research those stats-and I can tell you that every business does want to attract people who are not in the top Demographics for their products (does not matter if it is soap, burgers, soda, beer, or Elvis)but they geer their products advertisements and goals to the top Demographic numbers. They will have broad campaigns not individual campaigns for each group by age gender or color.
Actually the top growing part of US population is espanic from figures I have seen-but I do not think we will see a huge campaign aimed at Mexicans.

Coke might, Pepsi might, McDonalds might-huge multi billion dollar companies with advertising budgets to match who spend hundreds of millions on ads of all kinds...companies which buy Superbowl time-they have mini campaigns among their broad ads-but they have the money.

I am starting to think you work for EPE. Why else would you be their prtection blanket on every subject whether it's relevant or off topic? :hmm:

And for the record, rap music is a international musical genre the way rock, country and gospel is. It's not just for blacks. That is stereotypical to even consider and so far from the truth. More white kids today listen and buy rap music than do black kids. That's a fact! But not all black rappers dislike Elvis too. 50 Cent, Three-Six Mafia, Yo Gotti, Kia Shine, Pit Bull, Snoop Dog, Jay Z, etc have all at one time or another spoken respectfully towards him. Jay Z even sampled Girls! Girls! Girls!.

Let's please stop making every post about Sillerman, EPE, or race and religion. Let's try and stay on topic for once. Which this topic was about a man who grew up with Elvis in Tupelo who happened to be African American.

[KPM]

OK, first of all, I am NOT obsessed nor just interested in those categories and subjects that you mentioned. I am however more concerned with the image being promoted more than the man. Every true Elvis fan should be imo. I only care about what blacks think simply because they are a large percentage of the US population now and are having a big say in how our society is being driven these days. Same goes with the Hispanics.

I couldn't care less what others from the past might have said or thought or what their likes were. There are over 1 million people living in Memphis. It's not some hick town with about 50. Just because someone from the past was from there or even might have known someone connected to the council does not make them me or me them. That's preposterous to even think that. You have made that a big deal since I have been here. Now I know why you question everyone of my posts. For all we know they could have been lying the whole time. I don't know as I wasn't here back then. So I can't say for sure. I knew some people in Memphis who were and still are big Elvis fans. Some care more about Graceland and the impact it has on their city than they ever have the man and his music. Others couldn't care less about Elvis. That's just the way it is there.

And no, I cannot see a similarity in my posts and others. I post what I know and what I am told. If you chose to not believe it that's your choice to make. I'm not going to come here, waste my time, and debate something I know as fact or truth to some who are going to believe what they want anyhow.
Well since you say you were not here when all the similar threads and posts were made-how could you know how similar yours are to those back then? I was here, so were others and friend there are similarities.
I do not post anything because of past posts-I post on the merits of the subject of the threads posts and views.
I do not for example think that if huge plans are not carried out-that Elvis Presleys talent will suddenly not attract fans, and when someone makes a case in which the opposite is their view-I will challenge that-not personal, not remembering similar posts by similar writers-I will challenge that view based on the premise of the view.
Elvis should have died out in 1957, flash in the pan. according to many views back then, I would have challenged them then, his career should have been over in 58 when he went into the Army-the films should have ended his career, the Beatles should have ended his career, when he died it should have been over.........Charisma and talent live forever gaining fans not like a rabbitt in a race but like a tortoise which continues forward and lasts much longer. Ebbs and flos do not mean the end it is the natural way of things.
The person makes no difference to me-its the premise of their post and views.
Fact or truth which is proved I have no problem with, speculation which is unsourced I will question. Not sure why that bothers you?
I will ask you did you read my explaination of "hearsay"? When you quote a second or third party it is "hearsay" that means it will not prove a fact, it will not prove something as true.
I bring this back up because if you do not understand that concept what you consider a fact or truth is just unproven rumor.
Having some fun now huh kids!!!:D

[buttonhead]

No..Ken is not working for EPE,...more like for FBI ..:lol: So Sorry guys, I cant help but saying it .

[KPM]

I am starting to think you work for EPE. Why else would you be their prtection blanket on every subject whether it's relevant or off topic? :hmm:

And for the record, rap music is a international musical genre the way rock, country and gospel is. It's not just for blacks. That is stereotypical to even consider and so far from the truth. More white kids today listen and buy rap music than do black kids. That's a fact! But not all black rappers dislike Elvis too. 50 Cent, Three-Six Mafia, Yo Gotti, Kia Shine, Pit Bull, Snoop Dog, Jay Z, etc have all at one time or another spoken respectfully towards him. Jay Z even sampled Girls! Girls! Girls!.

Let's please stop making every post about Sillerman, EPE, or race and religion. Let's try and stay on topic for once. Which this topic was about a man who grew up with Elvis in Tupelo who happened to be African American.
Ha ha :D I work for EPE its very funny.
I am not a protection blanket for them-I point out they have done well with what they were left with and for their primary will stated objective, they were not given much leeway as to their goal-the goal in the will was not to protect the man, not to protect his image-it was to make money for his child-that was the bottom line. When all he negatives are said about EPE-I think it should be reminded that their goals were prescribed by Elvis-so we may not like how they have done their job-but it started with the sitution left by Elvis and his will. I try to point out the other side. Thats fair (and for the record-and I have said this many times in many threads-I do not approve of all they do)
As far as my comments on rap-I agree its not just for blacks-I even mentioned that in one of my posts-rap is listened to by all colors and creeds but it does not negate the fact that if you listen to rap-it is a huge longshot to think you will ever like listen to or be a fan of Elvis. I know African Americans who listen to rap, and white kids does not matter-they don't like Elvis actually do not like much other than rap.
When I hear the boom boom boom of a subwoofer going down the street-the car is driven by all types people, the singular connecting thread is they like rap....and they are highly unlikely to suddenly pick up a copy of Elvis 30 #1s and change .

[KPM]

No..Ken is not working for EPE,...more like for FBI ..:lol: So Sorry guys, I cant help but saying it .
Listen don't blow my cover-it is of a legal nature.:lol:

[buttonhead]

IMO too many things on the Internet in general are posted which have no basis in fact-but are opinion and wishful thinking. So I see nothing wrong in anyone wanting proof of something said or posted-seems fair for everyone.
The Internet is a great thing, but it also is used to misinform, scam, and create havoc for honest people.


Yes,KPM I agree with this statement, so I am glad to often finds many insight information from you , thats why I axed away about Elvis eye color and glaucoma problems.. for some reasons too many Elvis fans, .. ate up some hoax stories of our man Elvis, which makes me cringe even felt sad that ...that is what they believe. Internet does provide lots of priveledge for people to search...googled and learned but Why does people kept coming back to the one full with nonsense ?

I am sorry I said this bluntly, but is the truth, I was quite in shock to read some of facebook Elvis fans who still believed Elvis fake his death...its been 35 years ?? if he did, Elvis would have gotten sued by making this Public Lie, ... also there are A LOT of Elvis cropped / photoshops pictures out there, and there are fans who believed that it was Elvis ... truth is it dont looked legit... but they insisted it was real... If its for their own creativity and fun, PLEASE do it... But dont make the unreal story out of it..

I feel like I was in the Twilight of Elvis World Zone :blink: :blink: :blink:...

its about time for Elvis fans to share whats the truth and what not. I am not here to attack any one or any thing, I just want to point out of how true what Ken had said above.

TCB all .

[buttonhead]

Listen don't blow my cover-it is of a legal nature.:lol:

When you analyze Elvis facts... Its a lot like a detective.. :lol: which is a good thing.

[rocknroll]

This argument isn't just similar, it is also almost exact - word for word. It is also as tiring as the remix and Graceland renovation arguments that our friend from a few years ago was completely obsessed with.

[vivaelvis]

This argument isn't just similar, it is also almost exact - word for word. It is also as tiring as the remix and Graceland renovation arguments that our friend from a few years ago was completely obsessed with. As I have said, I am not obsessed with anything nor was I around back then. So stop trying to make me out to be some kind of villian. That's exactly why I no longer post on the other forums.

[rocknroll]

As I have said, I am not obsessed with anything nor was I around back then. So stop trying to make me out to be some kind of villian. That's exactly why I no longer post on the other forums.

Reread my post. I said "our friend from a few years ago" was obsessed. Since you allegedly are not him I must not have been referring to you.....correct?

[KPM]

I just read some comments by Harry Belafonte in his autobiography, he claimed that when Elvis was recording his first album in New York he was also recording an album in a nearby studio. His producer began to hear some fuzzy type noise on the playbacks for his album, so when the producer investigated he found out that Elvis and his musicians were playing so loudly that the studios soundproofing was just not made for rock recording and his sessions were bleeding into the background of Belafontes recording. They sent word for Elvis's sessions to be rescheduled around Belafontes-the reply was supposedly from Col. Parker who said no and threatened to ruin Belafonte??
Belafonte said he finally met Elvis briefly in Vegas ........when Elvis and Ann Margret came to the hotel Belafonte was working.
He claimed Elvis called him Mr. Belafonte and was very pleasant-but he had the feeling that it was all country boy slickness-and he conditioned his statement by saying Rock had knocked Calypso out of the box and his feelings may have had something to do with that situation.
Later Belafonte said he talked with black musicians who told him Elvis had from the start hung out with blacks and black musicians so Belafonte felt that Elvis came by his style legitimately.
Now I doubt very many people of a certain age will really care in 2012 what Belafonte thinks-but it was nice to find he had some positive things to say.

[King Of The Whole World]

I just read some comments by Harry Belafonte in his autobiography, he claimed that when Elvis was recording his first album in New York he was also recording an album in a nearby studio. His producer began to hear some fuzzy type noise on the playbacks for his album, so when the producer investigated he found out that Elvis and his musicians were playing so loudly that the studios soundproofing was just not made for rock recording and his sessions were bleeding into the background of Belafontes recording. They sent word for Elvis's sessions to be rescheduled around Belafontes-the reply was supposedly from Col. Parker who said no and threatened to ruin Belafonte??
Belafonte said he finally met Elvis briefly in Vegas ........when Elvis and Ann Margret came to the hotel Belafonte was working.
He claimed Elvis called him Mr. Belafonte and was very pleasant-but he had the feeling that it was all country boy slickness-and he conditioned his statement by saying Rock had knocked Calypso out of the box and his feelings may have had something to do with that situation.
Later Belafonte said he talked with black musicians who told him Elvis had from the start hung out with blacks and black musicians so Belafonte felt that Elvis came by his style legitimately.
Now I doubt very many people of a certain age will really care in 2012 what Belafonte thinks-but it was nice to find he had some positive things to say.

Never heard that story, very cool. Elvis always won his critics over once he had a chance to show them what a down to earth guy he was.

[Raised on Rock]

Have you ever noticed that the black cultural influence is hardly ever a part of the Elvis story? Never do you hear of how it all became. That's why blacks in general think he was a racist.

It is because the black cultural influence has always been a HUGE part of Elvis story, that the "racist" issue came in, actually.

[Raised on Rock]

Never heard that story, very cool. Elvis always won his critics over once he had a chance to show them what a down to earth guy he was.

Neither do I, where did you get it Ken?

Those N.Y. sessions where indeed loud, you can notice the saturation in the mix. And it sure sounds great!

Sam Bell, great story isn't it?

About that lie of Elvis being a racist... that rather had much more to do with complex sociological issues in the U.S. ( http://www.tcb-world.com/threads/14390-How-Did-Elvis-Get-Turned-Into-a-Racist-By-New-York-Times-Peter-Guralnick?highlight=guralnick+racist ) rather than with EPE missmanagments. EPE had stated it was not true many times by providing facts, what else they can do? Discounts on tickets for black people? that's ridiculous, not to say actually insulting and errr... racist.

To me the black music/culture influence in Elvis has never been hidden, in fact has always been a big part of the whole Elvis narrative, in fact essential to it.

Now if some people get that as "stealing", rather than "legitimate", that will always had to do with "unreasonable" vs. "reasonable" as you well said Ken, as the facts have always been in the table for all so... the only thing EPE can and should do is to keep those facts on the table, and well, that´s what they are doing with this video among some others in this legacy stuff they added to the webpage so...

[KPM]

Neither do I, where did you get it Ken?

Those N.Y. sessions where indeed loud, you can notice the saturation in the mix. And it sure sounds great!

Sam Bell, great story isn't it?

About that lie of Elvis being a racist... that rather had much more to do with complex sociological issues in the U.S. ( http://www.tcb-world.com/threads/14390-How-Did-Elvis-Get-Turned-Into-a-Racist-By-New-York-Times-Peter-Guralnick?highlight=guralnick+racist ) rather than with EPE missmanagments. EPE had stated it was not true many times by providing facts, what else they can do? Discounts on tickets for black people? that's ridiculous, not to say actually insulting and errr... racist.

To me the black music/culture influence in Elvis has never been hidden, in fact has always been a big part of the whole Elvis narrative, in fact essential to it.

Now if some people get that as "stealing", rather than "legitimate", that will always had to do with "unreasonable" vs. "reasonable" as you well said Ken, as the facts have always been in the table for all so... the only thing EPE can and should do is to keep those facts on the table, and well, that´s what they are doing with this video among some others in this legacy stuff they added to the webpage so...
Belafontes Autobiography "MY SONG" interesting read.

[Raised on Rock]

Belafontes Autobiography "MY SONG" interesting read.

I'm sure it is! Thanks for sharing that one... Have a great week!

[KPM]

There are many many great stories about Elvis and his upbringing, his respect and love of all kinds of music including black music.
Country artists do not claim Elvis stole country music, nor do gospel artists, nor does Dean Martins children, and by the same token no one accuses Chuck Berry, Fats Domino or Ray Charles of stealing country since all had influences from the Grand old Opry-even Chucks first hit the song "Maybelline" was very close to a Bob Wills song "Ida Red"....no one has attacked him for his influences.
The truth about Elvis and his influences is not hidden, it is not played down, it is not whitewashed-my goodness it is the idea of the melting pot of style that is the Elvis rock story-the fact is the truth is ignored and claimed to be lies.
You can tell the truth, you can prove the truth but you can not make someone believe the truth who does not want to believe it.
There is no magic pill, nor publicity campaign that will force belief-if those who do not believe-do not wish to see truth.

[vivaelvis]

There are many many great stories about Elvis and his upbringing, his respect and love of all kinds of music including black music.
Country artists do not claim Elvis stole country music, nor do gospel artists, nor does Dean Martins children, and by the same token no one accuses Chuck Berry, Fats Domino or Ray Charles of stealing country since all had influences from the Grand old Opry-even Chucks first hit the song "Maybelline" was very close to a Bob Wills song "Ida Red"....no one has attacked him for his influences.
The truth about Elvis and his influences is not hidden, it is not played down, it is not whitewashed-my goodness it is the idea of the melting pot of style that is the Elvis rock story-the fact is the truth is ignored and claimed to be lies.
You can tell the truth, you can prove the truth but you can not make someone believe the truth who does not want to believe it.
There is no magic pill, nor publicity campaign that will force belief-if those who do not believe-do not wish to see truth.

I can't argue with that. And you bring up a great point on how Berry and Charles both took from Country music and called it their own. It's no different in what Elvis would do a couple years later. It's a double standard if you ask me when one race (blacks) can claim one thing when they are just as guilty for the same thing they are claiming. This is why I do not support affirmative action anymore. It's one sided when it is not no longer needed.

[KPM]

I can't argue with that. And you bring up a great point on how Berry and Charles both took from Country music and called it their own. It's no different in what Elvis would do a couple years later. It's a double standard if you ask me when one race (blacks) can claim one thing when they are just as guilty for the same thing they are claiming. This is why I do not support affirmative action anymore. It's one sided when it is not no longer needed.
That is another bone of contention which is hard to impress upon young people-Elvis had begun developing his style from the moment he got his first guitar in 48. Elvis was singing in Memphis at school, on his porch, with others etc....starting in Junior High.....according to Red, Sonny, GK, Jerry.....he went to Sun in 53 and had his first songs released "Thats Alright Mama/Blue Moon of Kentucky" in 54......he began touring and had club dates starting then-Chuch Berry, Little Richard and Bo Diddley all had their first hits in 55. Elvis was a year ahead of them all with "Thats Alright Mama" in 54.
But try and point that out to someone who just automatically repeats what they have heard- that Elvis stole his music from Berry, Richard and Diddley and they were the real pioneers.
I have tried correcting this misinformation a dozen times with people in person and on the Net-they just simply call me a liar or worse a racist protecting the "Image of Elvis"
The facts have always been known, have always been on record for anyone who knows anything about the birth of Rock-but today they are ignored because the myth that Elvis stole his style-is what some want and seem to need to believe.
There is no denying Elvis was influenced by black musicians just as he was by all the styles which make up rock-but until 1955 when the major players of Berry, Diddley and Richard had their first hits-he had never heard of them-how could he steal in 53-what he had not even heard yet.
Now I point this out to anyone who uses the word steal in relation to Elvis music-and the couple years difference in record releases-but it is not accepted.