The Elvis Holy Land Experience-what's your take?

[vivaelvis]

I'm sure you all have by now read or heard about this new project by EPE and the Israel tour company that is taking a group of Elvis fans to the Hold Land on an Elvis-themed religious adventure. To me, I find it pushing the envelop to a limit by EPE. However, I also see Israel using Elvis to draw in tourism in a country facing possible war fare with Iran by agreeing to go along with it. I'm on the fence with this. A part of me feels that it's crossing the line by involving Elvis-an entertainer and Jesus-the savior, while another part of me feels it's maybe a good thing to grow more world attention to Elvis and possibly new fans. But what would Elvis have thought of it? In my own opinion. I feel that he would have said it's going too far and wouldn't have agreed with his own estate participating in it as it singles out other religions. Elvis was Christian, but he also studied other religious beliefs such as Islam among others.

What is your personal take on this controversial tour?:hmm:

[JRtherealJR]

Elvis was Christian, but he also studied other religious beliefs such as Islam among others.



Elvis never studied Islam. Ever.

[Cliff]

He may not have studied it, but I'm sure he was aware of it. Anyway,how do you know???

[Cliff]

I'm sure you all have by now read or heard about this new project by EPE and the Israel tour company that is taking a group of Elvis fans to the Hold Land on an Elvis-themed religious adventure. To me, I find it pushing the envelop to a limit by EPE. However, I also see Israel using Elvis to draw in tourism in a country facing possible war fare with Iran by agreeing to go along with it. I'm on the fence with this. A part of me feels that it's crossing the line by involving Elvis-an entertainer and Jesus-the savior, while another part of me feels it's maybe a good thing to grow more world attention to Elvis and possibly new fans. But what would Elvis have thought of it? In my own opinion. I feel that he would have said it's going too far and wouldn't have agreed with his own estate participating in it as it singles out other religions. Elvis was Christian, but he also studied other religious beliefs such as Islam among others.

What is your personal take on this controversial tour?:hmm:

Man,this is a hot one. As this is not a political forum I will not give my full personal views on this except to say I feel EPE should stay away from this one. Elvis was very apolitical and did not air his political views in public, for this reason I believe he would treat this the same way.
Not sure what what EPE hopes to achieve by this. Are they working hand in hand with the US government or just chasing the almighty dollar?
Of course it may draw world attention to Elvis,but for all the wrong reasons. AS for new fans believe me,there are a lot of Elvis fans in both Israel and Iran (re videos)
Last year I was honored to be asked to be an administrator for a group on Facebook called "Iran/Elvis" by a young lady called Jila. Not knowing what to expect I was amazed at the number of young Iranians who interact with this group and there love for Elvis. Unfortunately, because of censorship in this country and broadband problems they can not always view You Tube clips that are posted but always comment on the many pics of Elvis that are posted.
I myself do not follow any religion. I'm a humanitarian and find the good in people without religion getting in the way.


http://youtu.be/0nm5TfSKhaQ


http://youtu.be/dEL68ptdf1o

[vivaelvis]

Elvis never studied Islam. Ever.

When I say "studied" I mean that he looked into it and read about it and didn't judge it. He even owned a Koran which is the Muslim bible and the class stained windows in the Meditation Garden has depictions of Islamic settings.

[J.P]

i don't think Elvis had seen it as a very good idea and i don't either. it's going to far IMO.....

[King Of The Whole World]

I guess I don't understand the logic behind it, doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what EPE is thinking about mixing Elvis with religion. I don’t think Elvis would approve of this at all.

[Cliff]

When I say "studied" I mean that he looked into it and read about it and didn't judge it. He even owned a Koran which is the Muslim bible and the class stained windows in the Meditation Garden has depictions of Islamic settings.

Thanks for this info. He also met with the Shah of Iran and was given a ring by him. Mind you, this would have been before the Ayatolah and Islam took over. Have searched the net high and low and can not find a pic of the Shah and Elvis together.

PAHLAVI RING
http://www.jordans-elvis-world.com/mine/images/15.jpg

[Nicole Presley]

I´m sure Elvis doesn´t like it.

[Awickedreigndrop]

I'm on the fence on this one too. There's nothing that will get tempers flared like the subjects of Religion and Politics. Maybe they need to take a step back and re-evaluate the whole idea. Pehaps take the religious aspect out of it and just make it about Elvis and uniting Elvis fans from all over.

[JRtherealJR]

He even owned a Koran.

Elvis never owned a Koran. Ever.

[vivaelvis]

Elvis never owned a Koran. Ever.

Maybe you should ask EPE about that. Or, ask Mohammed Ali who presented it to him as a gift. Back in 2001, EPE was about to put it out on display at the time of 911, but because of world wide criticism and outcry towards Muslims, EPE decided wisely not to put it out publicly.

[vivaelvis]

I'm on the fence on this one too. There's nothing that will get tempers flared like the subjects of Religion and Politics. Maybe they need to take a step back and re-evaluate the whole idea. Pehaps take the religious aspect out of it and just make it about Elvis and uniting Elvis fans from all over.

Very good point. I think EPE's greed and money hungry ways will be their downfall.

[KPM]

Very good point. I think EPE's greed and money hungry ways will be their downfall.
Its so funny to me-ironic in the truest sense.
Elvis leaves no real rules in his will except to protect his estate and to make sure it grows-no guidance really on how to protect the estate, no specific mentions of a list of dos and don't. He wanted everything to be kept protected for Lisa-thats the bottom line. Probate courts are legally bound to follow the wishes of the deceased-and they must follow it to the letter. Elvis could have left very specific detailed instuctions as to what could be done, and what was totally out of bounds-...He.....Did........Not!!
He did not own his music, he did not own his films-we all know this-he barely owned his own image if you read the probate judges thoughts on the deals with Col Parker. (that the judge found to be so ridiculous that he ordered the estate to sue Parker to break all contracts)
Elvis did not plan out his financial situation well, probably never thinking he would not be able to make a million in a couple weeks time anytime he wanted till he died. (and he never thought he would die so young)
So the estate has been protected to the fullest-in ways that were pioneered during Elvis's lifetime by Parker and Elvis ........if you have any of the 100s of "50s "trinkets" in your memorabilia or "1960s trinkets" or "70s trinkets"..........
The "will has been executed to the letter of Elvis's wishes as defined by the probate court" under the rules Elvis left-which were more or less anything goes.
I understand most don't like some, or all of the way, Elvis's wishes have been fullfilled-but he left that open, for a reason that most lawyers will stress-you do not tie the hands of those who are trying to fullfill your wishes after you are gone-they will possibly meet obstacles or problems that can not be foreseen years or decades in advance and if you put to many conditions-you can defeat your primary goal which is usually to protect and grow an estate.
I will not continually jump on EPE because sometimes they do things I may not think right..... they have accomplished the goal Elvis set-Lisa and family are set for at least a couple generations financially.

I would bet my housecat that had they failed in the early 80s, some people would have said-"They did not do enough, they did not FILL IN THE BLANK"
but because they have done what was called for with no preconditions set by Elvis in his will-they are the bad guys? Never ceases to amaze me-to quote Elvis himself.

As far as the Holy Land tour-it may be a little much, but then again when Elvis recorded his first gospel records some pastors called it "BLASPHEMY"
When he did "Peace in the Valley" on Ed Sullivan many religious leaders and church members could not believe he had the gall to sing sacred music.
If we are critical of making money with a religious component to it-then what of the money from the gospel music that Elvis made during his life, what about the sacred Christmas music that has surely put much money into his pocket during his lifetime?
In our area a gospel singer promotes his appearances in area churches in newspaper ads and posters as "In the Gospel Style of Elvis Presley"
He takes an offering for his appearances....................................... ..........................I think times have changed some.
People who get a blessing from hearing Elvis sing gospel music and who enjoy fellowship with other Christians will probably also enjoy going to the Holy Land as a group and visiting places they have only read about in the Bible or seen film....they have a common bond, a common link in being Christian and loving to hear Elvis sing gospel songs.
So on whole I do not see this as such a huge sudden departure-they sponser cruises for Elvis fans, many people enjoy them and make new friends.
Elvis talked of wanting to do more as perhaps a preacher or singing evangalist....perhaps a pipe dream or thinking outloud........but bringing together people-even religious people can not be a bad thing IMO

[readyseve]

Not sure what correct decision is but can only suggest what E may have thought of it. He was certainly a spiritual searcher but definitely think he took public stance of neutrality when it came to any socio-political and religious issues. Think he was very aware of alienating fans by making any public declaration of his views. For this reason I believe he would not have undertaken such a tour if he was alive for fear of causing offense.

[Lisarose]

I've been wanting to participate in a Holy Land Tour for many, many years now, but with this - Elvis & the Holy Land? I don't know. It's not too hard to see the connection. We all know that Elvis was a devout Christian, and very intent on learning all he could about Christianity from all points of view, but how would they tie the two together without coming off as exploitatious? (is that a word?)

[mistymorning]

[QUOTE=Cliff;406214]Man,this is a hot one. As this is not a political forum I will not give my full personal views on this except to say I feel EPE should stay away from this one. Elvis was very apolitical and did not air his political views in public, for this reason I believe he would treat this the same way.
Not sure what what EPE hopes to achieve by this. Are they working hand in hand with the US government or just chasing the almighty dollar?
Of course it may draw world attention to Elvis,but for all the wrong reasons. AS for new fans believe me,there are a lot of Elvis fans in both Israel and Iran (re videos)
Last year I was honored to be asked to be an administrator for a group on Facebook called "Iran/Elvis" by a young lady called Jila. Not knowing what to expect I was amazed at the number of young Iranians who interact with this group and there love for Elvis. Unfortunately, because of censorship in this country and broadband problems they can not always view You Tube clips that are posted but always comment on the many pics of Elvis that are posted.
I myself do not follow any religion. I'm a humanitarian and find the good in people without religion getting in the way.

You are 100% right . Elvis would never involve himself with political / religious matters . He was a seeker and studied about many religions and respected them all . And it is posiible ( strongly ) that he studied about Islam among many other religions too.
I personally thank you for what you've done for Iran/Elvis. The number of his fans are growing in Iran because of imroving international communicative technology.

[mistymorning]

I have read somewhere that Elvis owned a Quran and put it in his meditation garden ofcourse owning a Quran or reading it doesn't mean necessarily to be a muslim but it shows his interest and respect about seeking other religions and his spiritual side.

[Cliff]

Update to the ring given to Elvis by the Shah.

" This ring ( which symbolizes a high rank of Iranian Navy) was given to Elvis and he wore it for a few years but after hearing about Shah's political attitutes he put it away and his grandmother sold it ($320000 ) after his death"

I feel this shows that Elvis did indeed take an interest in other countries and politics.

[JRtherealJR]

Or, ask Mohammed Ali who presented it to him as a gift.

Where is your proof that Ali ever gave Elvis a Koran?


Back in 2001, EPE was about to put it out on display at the time of 911, but because of world wide criticism and outcry towards Muslims, EPE decided wisely not to put it out publicly.

Again, where is your proof for any of this?

[vivaelvis]

Where is your proof that Ali ever gave Elvis a Koran?



Again, where is your proof for any of this?

Where is your proof that Elvis didn't own a Koran? You're the one who is denying it.

[buttonhead]

I dont think this is such a good idea... lots of Elvis fans are also Muslims.... I was born and raised a Muslim, I read on Larry Geller IF I Can Dream book about him mentioning Elvis also learned Islam,..may be as a comparison, as much as Elvis was born and raised Christian but in his life he's interested and had high respect with many differences of Religious and Spiritual Beliefs, .. I think Elvis will not put himself in position to be in one particular political views, or religion.. although he liked to read some verse of Bible while on stage in front of his audiences, but still i dont think he would love to be put up there on stage as a Preacher ,... for him he was and still is simply An Entertainer.

[JRtherealJR]

Where is your proof that Elvis didn't own a Koran? You're the one who is denying it.

Thank you for confirming what I suspected- you have absolutely no proof whatsoever to back up your claims. You are just inventing stories out of thin air and presenting them as facts.

You have claimed that Elvis studied Islam- I challenged you on this and you backed down saying "well he never studied it but he owned a Koran"

I have asked you to provide proof for your next claim: that EP owned a Koran- you have failed to provide proof or even say where you heard it.

You then went on to make a bizarre claim that in 2001 EPE were planning to "put Elvis' Koran on public display, but changed their minds after 9/11"- again you give no proof to back up such a ludicrous story.

Then you alleged that Muhammad Ali gave Elvis a Koran- again with no proof when challenged.

I am seeing a pattern developing here of you seemingly making up outlandish claims to make Elvis out to be something he was not. You are trying to re-write history and somehow alter people's perception of who Elvis was. You are trying to make Elvis into "your Elvis" or in other words the Elvis you want him to be at the expense of historical accuracy.

There is an overwhelming majority of evidence that Elvis never in fact owned a Koran. Nobody who was close to him has ever stated he owned a Koran or studied Islam. Nobody who was close to him even saw him reading a Koran.

No Koran was ever found after he died. If such a thing was found- we would have heard about it by now; EPE would have gladly pushed it into the public domain long before September 11, 2001 to promote Elvis' multicultural appeal.

I have read over 130 books on Elvis and none of them ever mentioned even a passing interest in Islam on Elvis' part, let alone him owning a Koran.

There is absolutely nothing to even hint at supporting your claims, so to answer your question, this is my evidence.

Again, I have to ask: where is your proof?

[vivaelvis]

Thank you for confirming what I suspected- you have absolutely no proof whatsoever to back up your claims. You are just inventing stories out of thin air and presenting them as facts.

You have claimed that Elvis studied Islam- I challenged you on this and you backed down saying "well he never studied it but he owned a Koran"

I have asked you to provide proof for your next claim: that EP owned a Koran- you have failed to provide proof or even say where you heard it.

You then went on to make a bizarre claim that in 2001 EPE were planning to "put Elvis' Koran on public display, but changed their minds after 9/11"- again you give no proof to back up such a ludicrous story.

Then you alleged that Muhammad Ali gave Elvis a Koran- again with no proof when challenged.

I am seeing a pattern developing here of you seemingly making up outlandish claims to make Elvis out to be something he was not. You are trying to re-write history and somehow alter people's perception of who Elvis was. You are trying to make Elvis into "your Elvis" or in other words the Elvis you want him to be at the expense of historical accuracy.

There is an overwhelming majority of evidence that Elvis never in fact owned a Koran. Nobody who was close to him has ever stated he owned a Koran or studied Islam. Nobody who was close to him even saw him reading a Koran.

No Koran was ever found after he died. If such a thing was found- we would have heard about it by now; EPE would have gladly pushed it into the public domain long before September 11, 2001 to promote Elvis' multicultural appeal.

I have read over 130 books on Elvis and none of them ever mentioned even a passing interest in Islam on Elvis' part, let alone him owning a Koran.

There is absolutely nothing to even hint at supporting your claims, so to answer your question, this is my evidence.

Again, I have to ask: where is your proof?

Are you serious, man? You sound like someone living in denial of the truth. Refusing to believe it.

First of all, EPE discovered the book in their archives back in 2001 and were planning on displaying it as part of a religious exhibit on his faith just prior to the 911 fallout. But as soon as hatred poured out towards Muslims and their faith, EPE wisely chose not to. I guess you aren't aware that EPE asked a Muslim news reporter from the Middle East to be removed from the Graceland grounds following the attack as a precaution, did you? That made national news! You can believe what you want to, but everything that I have posted is the truth.

Second, you claim that Elvis never studied nor showed any interest in the religion when others besides myself have mentioned it in this very thread. Larry Geller knew Elvis as well as anyone did. In fact knew about his inner faith and beliefs more than the Mafia. That's a fact. If he says that Elvis was interested in the religion and read about it then it must be true. You asked me to prove my fact but you fail to prove yours which is that it did NOT occur when it in fact did. What about the footage that's been on Youtube of Elvis wearing a turban? That is something worn by Middle Easterners, such as Muslims. What about the Islamic depictions in the glass in the Meditation Garden? It makes sense for Elvis to have owned a Koran, which WAS a gift to him from his dear friend, Mohammed Ali. So, come on, man. Don't be gullible.

Third, you come off acting and sounding like a know-it-all, like an Elvis encyclopedia or something. But you're not. So stop acting arrogant. Maybe you should stick to being an Elvis impersonator instead of flaming at posters for posting facts that don't reach your approval. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I do NOT enjoy being attack and called a liar. (n)

Another thing. Most books written about Elvis were always protecting and sugarcoating his image and his real life. Nancy Rooks, his black cook, recently caused some controversy when she wrote a book too, and mentioned that Elvis dated a black girl who worked for him. However, nobody else, who would have known, had ever admitted it. Ask Darlene Love about that. She publicly stated "they weren't gonna let him be with no black girl". So, my point is, don't believe everything you read in a book. Books don't always present the facts.

[vivaelvis]

Here's the Youtube clip of Elvis wearing a turban incase someone says it didn't happen.:lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4G8VIO6pi0&feature=fvst

[buttonhead]

Come On Now guys, Enough of this... this great thread will end up off Topics.

[Cliff]

Come On Now guys, Enough of this... this great thread will end up off Topics.

No Buttonhead this is good stuff. This is what TCB has been missing of late,good healthry debate, without name calling of course.
So what if it ends up in the 'off topic' box ? Those who are interested in airing their views will follow it.
I'm ready to lock and load and I'll be back !! ;)

[KPM]

Where is your proof that Elvis didn't own a Koran? You're the one who is denying it.
To be fair Viva-we have always here tried to provide proof of anything that has been definitively stated-so there is nothing unusual about asking from where did you get this information.
If you just heard this Koran story from someone off the record-then that is taken into consideration as to its validity.
If you read this in a book which is public record-that is taken into consideration as to validity.
If you have a clip of someone from EPE stating that all you post is true-that is taken into consideration as to validity etc etc etc
I many times do not recall where I heard or read something-and I fully expect people to question me on definitive things I say-and take my answer as to where, by whom and when into consideration when I can not pinpoint a source.
But pretty much the whole time I have been a member here-the question of what is your source-is normal.

[mistymorning]

I dont think this is such a good idea... lots of Elvis fans are also Muslims.... I was born and raised a Muslim, I read on Larry Geller IF I Can Dream book about him mentioning Elvis also learned Islam,..may be as a comparison, as much as Elvis was born and raised Christian but in his life he's interested and had high respect with many differences of Religious and Spiritual Beliefs, .. I think Elvis will not put himself in position to be in one particular political views, or religion.. although he liked to read some verse of Bible while on stage in front of his audiences, but still i dont think he would love to be put up there on stage as a Preacher ,... for him he was and still is simply An Entertainer.


I agree with you , Elvis had and has got many muslim fans and he wouldn't put himself in one particular religious or political point of view . He was interested in studying different religions , it's something cleae , after all what's wrong about seeking other religions and spiritual point of views ?

[mistymorning]

Update to the ring given to Elvis by the Shah.

" This ring ( which symbolizes a high rank of Iranian Navy) was given to Elvis and he wore it for a few years but after hearing about Shah's political attitutes he put it away and his grandmother sold it ($320000 ) after his death"

I feel this shows that Elvis did indeed take an interest in other countries and politics.


Yes and this is another proof of his interest in other cultures , religions and etc..............


http://www.seeing-stars.com/Churches/LakeShrine.shtml

[mistymorning]

Elvis Presley's favorite spiritual books

. Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda
The list author says:
"Another of Elvis' favorites. A great book! In the "Seeker" chapter of the "Elvis by the Presleys" DVD, Jerry Schilling and Priscilla Presley reveal that Elvis was attracted to the "Self-Realization Fellowship" and spoke often with Daya Mata

Shambhala: Sacred Path of the Warrior by Chogyam Trungpa
The list author says:
"An excellent book for those, like Elvis, who like to apply the principles of martial arts to everyday life. According to Trungpa when you don’t punish or condemn yourself, when you relax and appreciate your body and mind, you begin to contact goodness in yourself

. Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East (6 Volume Set) by Baird T. Spalding
The list author says:
"According to Spalding, "Mastership is bringing to the surface what is buried within by meditation and consulting with the Self." I agree. Another of Elvis' favorites
. Tao Te Ching, 25th-Anniversary Edition (English and Mandarin Chinese Edition) by Lao Tzu
The list author says:
"According to Larry Geller, Elvis thought the Tao was another word for God. The "Tao Te Ching" is one of my all-time favorite books - highly recommended. According to Lao Tzu from caring comes courage
Those who knew him well (Larry Geller, Jerry Schilling, and Priscilla Presley to name a few) say that Elvis was a deeply religious man who spent hours reading books on spirituality, meditating and praying. And although Elvis remained a lifelong Christian he respected other faiths. This spiritual side of Elvis is an often overlooked.

[Cliff]

Thank you for confirming what I suspected- you have absolutely no proof whatsoever to back up your claims. You are just inventing stories out of thin air and presenting them as facts.

You have claimed that Elvis studied Islam- I challenged you on this and you backed down saying "well he never studied it but he owned a Koran"

I have asked you to provide proof for your next claim: that EP owned a Koran- you have failed to provide proof or even say where you heard it.

You then went on to make a bizarre claim that in 2001 EPE were planning to "put Elvis' Koran on public display, but changed their minds after 9/11"- again you give no proof to back up such a ludicrous story.

Then you alleged that Muhammad Ali gave Elvis a Koran- again with no proof when challenged.

I am seeing a pattern developing here of you seemingly making up outlandish claims to make Elvis out to be something he was not. You are trying to re-write history and somehow alter people's perception of who Elvis was. You are trying to make Elvis into "your Elvis" or in other words the Elvis you want him to be at the expense of historical accuracy.

There is an overwhelming majority of evidence that Elvis never in fact owned a Koran. Nobody who was close to him has ever stated he owned a Koran or studied Islam. Nobody who was close to him even saw him reading a Koran.

No Koran was ever found after he died. If such a thing was found- we would have heard about it by now; EPE would have gladly pushed it into the public domain long before September 11, 2001 to promote Elvis' multicultural appeal.

I have read over 130 books on Elvis and none of them ever mentioned even a passing interest in Islam on Elvis' part, let alone him owning a Koran.

There is absolutely nothing to even hint at supporting your claims, so to answer your question, this is my evidence.

Again, I have to ask: where is your proof?

I'd like to ask where is your proof? You say there is overwhelming majority of evidence that Elvis never owned a Koran. Again I ask;Where is you evidence?. You've read 130 books so therefore you must have something that you can scan and present as proof of this.
If it was only a passing interest in Islam then perhaps those who have written did not deem it necessary or important enough to mention.Who knows? Of course the reason could also be the stigma attached to the Koran and Islam that troubles the Western world. This has been pointed out by Viva.
If you, sir, do indeed have evidence proving otherwise I challenge you to present it. My feeling is you have tunnel vision when it comes to Elvis and if it is not mentioned in one of the many books you have read (and who can believe most of what is written in them?) then it can not be true.

[poor boy]

It is well documented that Elvis had a substantial library of books on world religions , spirituality , different cultures and beliefs .These are subjects he had great interest in and great respect for . Knowing Elvis interest in these subjects id be surprised if Elvis didnt have a copy of the Koran as he seemed to have books on most religions & faiths . This doesnt make him a muslim or a jew or anything else , just that he had an interest in these subjects . Personally i think the holy land idea is rediculous . Elvis was an entertainer not a religious leader and i dont think he would approve . What was Elvis answer when asked anything that was political or strayed from entertainment . Id just sooner keep my views about that to myself . Im just an entertainer and id rather not say . I think that makes Elvis view on this pretty clear .

[KPM]

First off, wearing a turban is not exactly proof of some Muslim connection or Muslim leaning, thats stretching the hatband a little far. ;):D
Elvis also wore sporty Fedoras and it did not make him a hitman for the mob, trenchcoats and that did not make him a Secret Service agent.:D

But the question raised by Jr was not about Elvis's interests and curiousity about religions-which is well documented in any number of books-his question was about the source of a specific thing-Did Ali give Elvis a Koran? Thats a fair question. The answer may change minds on this subject-"not" answering does nothing to change minds and set the record straight.
I have never read the Koran gift story anywhere or heard it anywhere, including Alis own Autobiography and another book I own on Ali.
Since Ali has been promoting his faith in Islam since his conversion, I would think he would mention this symbolic gift to Elvis in his books, or in his hundreds of interviews in which he has at times mentioned Elvis-but not this story.

Most here probably know that Elvis gave Ali a jewel incrusted robe to wear which said "The Peoples Champion" and Ali gave Elvis autographed boxing gloves .......that story is in many many books. (Ali only wore the robe for one fight only and because that fight was tough he never wore it again)
I would think that a gift of the Koran to Elvis would be much more worthy of mention by Ali than the gift of boxing gloves.
Or in the books by Elvis insiders the Koran story would have a mention.....as the robe and gloves are mentioned in several insider books.
But this is not about doubting Elvis read many books on religions and varied subjects of philosophy....that is something that is well documented.

[vivaelvis]

First off, wearing a turban is not exactly proof of some Muslim connection or Muslim leaning, thats stretching the hatband a little far. ;):D
Elvis also wore sporty Fedoras and it did not make him a hitman for the mob, trenchcoats and that did not make him a Secret Service agent.:D

But the question raised by Jr was not about Elvis's interests and curiousity about religions-which is well documented in any number of books-his question was about the source of a specific thing-Did Ali give Elvis a Koran? Thats a fair question. The answer may change minds on this subject-"not" answering does nothing to change minds and set the record straight.
I have never read the Koran gift story anywhere or heard it anywhere, including Alis own Autobiography and another book I own on Ali.
Since Ali has been promoting his faith in Islam since his conversion, I would think he would mention this symbolic gift to Elvis in his books, or in his hundreds of interviews in which he has at times mentioned Elvis-but not this story.

Most here probably know that Elvis gave Ali a jewel incrusted robe to wear which said "The Peoples Champion" and Ali gave Elvis autographed boxing gloves .......that story is in many many books. (Ali only wore the robe for one fight only and because that fight was tough he never wore it again)
I would think that a gift of the Koran to Elvis would be much more worthy of mention by Ali than the gift of boxing gloves.
Or in the books by Elvis insiders the Koran story would have a mention.....as the robe and gloves are mentioned in several insider books.
But this is not about doubting Elvis read many books on religions and varied subjects of philosophy....that is something that is well documented.

I can see why they or nobody would never admit to it. It's not cool nor accepted in the Christian community to own a Koran or even show interest in the religion. They knew it could do harm to Elvis' image if his "middle class white" fans knew about it. However, I have read from Geller and others that Elvis' favorite book outside of the Bible was The Prophet which was written by a Muslim. So it is very possible that Elvis did have a copy of the Koran.

As for Ali not mentioning it. Maybe he has and it's just gone unnoticed. Or, maybe he felt that it would tarnish Elvis' legacy and he didn't want that. It's also possible that it wasn't a gift from Ali after all but just something that Elvis got a copy of. EPE has never unveiled his massive library collection. No telling what all was in there.

I didn't read that EPE was going to present it on display. It was told to someone I knew and that it was decided after 911 not to display it and to keep it in the vaults. They stumbled across it and that Elvis had written in it. It's possible that he kept it private as someone does with a diary.

[Tommy]

Here is a list I found:

Shortly before his death, Elvis had given his friend, Wanda June Hill, a list of his favorite books, saying to her that if she didn't do anything else in her lifetime, that she should read these books.

Elvis' Favorite Book List

The Impersonal Life
The Initiation of the World
The Prophet
The Mystical Christ
The Secret Doctrine
Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East
The Leaves of Morya's Garden, Volumes I & II
Red Tree (by "Christine Hayes" - Maia Christianne Nartoomid)
The Philosophy of Shopenhauer
Life of Christ
The Autobiography of a Yogi
Cosmic Consciousness
The Intimate Way
Sacred Science of Numbers
The Inner Reality
The New Age Voice
The World Around Us
The Bible
The Agony of Christianity
The Joyful Wisdom
A Scientific Search for the Face of Jesus
Just One Voice

Run on guys and gals, this is great stuff!!!!! (y)

[buttonhead]

No Buttonhead this is good stuff. This is what TCB has been missing of late,good healthry debate, without name calling of course.
So what if it ends up in the 'off topic' box ? Those who are interested in airing their views will follow it.
I'm ready to lock and load and I'll be back !! ;)


It is a great thread Cliff,... although it would be hard to get a proof of which elvis owned a Koran...hey ! I have one :lol: I would give it to Elvis if he still alive,... But again as we all know Elvis has an indepth conquest in Spirituality, thats why he got really close with larry geller, this is just how human THe King Of Rock n Roll was, he often wondered why God make him as Elvis with fame/ fortune, contrary with his childhood which was dirt-poor, made Elvis had stronger faith that it was God who helped him along the way. Talking about this spiritual topics makes me realize I need to pray more often... we all Blessed , its just more often we dont really know it. Oh ok now I am gone off topic with this :lol:

[Cliff]

Elvis Presley's favorite spiritual books

. Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda
The list author says:
"Another of Elvis' favorites. A great book! In the "Seeker" chapter of the "Elvis by the Presleys" DVD, Jerry Schilling and Priscilla Presley reveal that Elvis was attracted to the "Self-Realization Fellowship" and spoke often with Daya Mata

Shambhala: Sacred Path of the Warrior by Chogyam Trungpa
The list author says:
"An excellent book for those, like Elvis, who like to apply the principles of martial arts to everyday life. According to Trungpa when you don’t punish or condemn yourself, when you relax and appreciate your body and mind, you begin to contact goodness in yourself

. Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East (6 Volume Set) by Baird T. Spalding
The list author says:
"According to Spalding, "Mastership is bringing to the surface what is buried within by meditation and consulting with the Self." I agree. Another of Elvis' favorites
. Tao Te Ching, 25th-Anniversary Edition (English and Mandarin Chinese Edition) by Lao Tzu
The list author says:
"According to Larry Geller, Elvis thought the Tao was another word for God. The "Tao Te Ching" is one of my all-time favorite books - highly recommended. According to Lao Tzu from caring comes courage
Those who knew him well (Larry Geller, Jerry Schilling, and Priscilla Presley to name a few) say that Elvis was a deeply religious man who spent hours reading books on spirituality, meditating and praying. And although Elvis remained a lifelong Christian he respected other faiths. This spiritual side of Elvis is an often overlooked.

Seeing one of the books you listed being "SHAMBHALA:SACRED PATH OF THE WARRIOR" bought to mind the song by Three Dog night in the mid 70s called "THE ROAD TO SHAMBALA". There is some interesting information in this clip,


http://youtu.be/6ZrG1i_z2Kc

[KPM]

I can see why they or nobody would never admit to it. It's not cool nor accepted in the Christian community to own a Koran or even show interest in the religion. They knew it could do harm to Elvis' image if his "middle class white" fans knew about it. However, I have read from Geller and others that Elvis' favorite book outside of the Bible was The Prophet which was written by a Muslim. So it is very possible that Elvis did have a copy of the Koran.

As for Ali not mentioning it. Maybe he has and it's just gone unnoticed. Or, maybe he felt that it would tarnish Elvis' legacy and he didn't want that. It's also possible that it wasn't a gift from Ali after all but just something that Elvis got a copy of. EPE has never unveiled his massive library collection. No telling what all was in there. I didn't read that EPE was going to present it on display. It was told to someone I knew and that it was decided after 911 not to display it and to keep it in the vaults. They stumbled across it and that Elvis had written in it. It's possible that he kept it private as someone does with a diary.
Everything Ali says has made news for decades-people pay attention to him and he has many times said-his main goal since he converted to Islam was to promote his religion by his actions and deeds (in and out of the ring) I just find the idea that he would give Elvis Presley a Koran as a gift while Elvis was alive not being front and center when he speaks of Elvis-hard to believe. You seem to make huge leaps on certain ideas, Geller says one of Elvis's favorite books was "the Prophet" (common knowledge) written by a Muslim-so that by association makes it more likely that Elvis owned a Koran???
Elvis liking the Prophet could also mean he loved the symbolism and mystic of the book and it spoke to him-regardless of who wrote it-but only Elvis knew why he liked it.
This debate began because you made the definitive comment "Ali" gave a Koran to him-that is the statement which JR reacted to, he wanted to know where you got the info that "ALI gave a copy to him".
You now say it was told to you by someone you know.....whom you may trust for information-but that does not make it a definitive end to the question.
I can understand you may have total confidence in people you get info from-but the rest of us do not have that same confidence-we do not know them, how they acquired their information and how truthful their source may be,.... its not personal .....-he or she could just be smoozing-that is a possibility that all info like this must be weighed with.
As far as harming Elvis's image, if Elvis being respectful, friendly and admiring of Ali did not harm his image-I do not think owning a Koran (if true)
would do so.
I am probably considered Middle class-I am white-it does not mean earth shaking things to me if Elvis owned a Koran-it says he explored other cultures beyond his upbrining and that shows intelligence.

[vivaelvis]

Everything Ali says has made news for decades-people pay attention to him and he has many times said-his main goal since he converted to Islam was to promote his religion by his actions and deeds (in and out of the ring) I just find the idea that he would give Elvis Presley a Koran as a gift while Elvis was alive not being front and center when he speaks of Elvis-hard to believe. You seem to make huge leaps on certain ideas, Geller says one of Elvis's favorite books was "the Prophet" (common knowledge) written by a Muslim-so that by association makes it more likely that Elvis owned a Koran???
Elvis liking the Prophet could also mean he loved the symbolism and mystic of the book and it spoke to him-regardless of who wrote it-but only Elvis knew why he liked it.
This debate began because you made the definitive comment "Ali" gave a Koran to him-that is the statement which JR reacted to, he wanted to know where you got the info that "ALI gave a copy to him".
You now say it was told to you by someone you know.....whom you may trust for information-but that does not make it a definitive end to the question.
I can understand you may have total confidence in people you get info from-but the rest of us do not have that same confidence-we do not know them, how they acquired their information and how truthful their source may be,.... its not personal .....-he or she could just be smoozing-that is a possibility that all info like this must be weighed with.
As far as harming Elvis's image, if Elvis being respectful, friendly and admiring of Ali did not harm his image-I do not think owning a Koran (if true)
would do so.
I am probably considered Middle class-I am white-it does not mean earth shaking things to me if Elvis owned a Koran-it says he explored other cultures beyond his upbrining and that shows intelligence.

First off, JP said that Elvis never owned a Koran. Not that it was a gift to him by Ali.

Second, my source spoke directly to a former Graceland staff worker who took part in setting up displays. This was NOT hearsay.

Third, unless you are of Christian faith you cannot possibly begin to understand the outcry one would get from the Christian community to associate with the Islamic beliefs. Such as owning a Koran. Religious beliefs and faith are the most controversial and dangerous things to debate about in society. They can even lead to violence and death. The two most followed religions in the world are Christianity and Islamic.

Back to the topic of the thread. EPE is putting fans into a potentially dangerous situation by taking them to the Holy Land and preaching the word of God to Elvis fans, knowing that many Muslims are fans of Elvis too and that Muslims dominate that region and the temple where Jesus is said to one day return. If they are smart, they won't isolate or alienate other religious groups. If they ever did and those fans turned on them, the company would be in some deep crap. They strongly depend on international tourism for income. They better have strong advisers looking into this.

[KPM]

First off, JP said that Elvis never owned a Koran. Not that it was a gift to him by Ali.

Second, my source spoke directly to a former Graceland staff worker who took part in setting up displays. This was NOT hearsay.Third, unless you are of Christian faith you cannot possibly begin to understand the outcry one would get from the Christian community to associate with the Islamic beliefs. Such as owning a Koran. Religious beliefs and faith are the most controversial and dangerous things to debate about in society. They can even lead to violence and death. The two most followed religions in the world are Christianity and Islamic.

Back to the topic of the thread. EPE is putting fans into a potentially dangerous situation by taking them to the Holy Land and preaching the word of God to Elvis fans, knowing that many Muslims are fans of Elvis too and that Muslims dominate that region and the temple where Jesus is said to one day return. If they are smart, they won't isolate or alienate other religious groups. If they ever did and those fans turned on them, the company would be in some deep crap. They strongly depend on international tourism for income. They better have strong advisers looking into this.
The poster is not JP-its JR, he did say Elvis never owned a Koran-but he asked for proof that the Koran you claim he had.... was given to him by Mohammed Ali. You state unequivically in a post that Ali gave Elvis a Koran as a gift.
I only got involved in this debate because I have books on Ali, I have over 60 books on Elvis..... I have been a fan of Elvis for nearing 50 years and of Ali for 40 years.....and I have never ever read about a gift of a Koran. Ali has never in the many interviews I have read or heard mentioned such a gift-he has mentioned the robe and boxing gloves.
Now before I would "spread that supposed fact to others" I would want to be confident that it is absolutely 100% true so I also asked for your source for the Ali gift story-you have not given one-and you have said perhaps Ali did not give it to him.
I was not questioning "if Elvis had a Koran, or had ever seen a Koran, or studied a Koran" I was asking for some legit source for the Ali gift story.
You need to understand the legal meaning of "hearsay"

Your source for the story about the existence of a Koran owned or studied by Elvis-is indeed legally hearsay evidence-in fact its 3rd party hearsay, and hearsay is not admissable in court. The reason is because you witnessed nothing, nor did your source........you are hearing of a situation-with no eye witness knowledge.
Your unnamed source told you and he was told by some unnamed Graceland staffer.
The only person who could testify to the truthfullness of this Koran rumor-would be the staffer who would have to be named and swear in court or deposition that in fact he saw a Koran with Elvis's writing in it.
Now if Ali, Joe Esposito, Charlie, Red, Sonny, Priscilla, Todd Morgan, Lamar, etc....all known insiders who spent literally years of their life with Elvis had specifically mentioned the Koran gift, or a Koran in any of their books, or their written and filmed interviews...then the hearsay would carry much more chance of being fact-but no one does.

I am a born again Christian...there are many Muslims who do not follow the radical view of Islam-they are peaceful and have a right in America to their religion....I see nothing wrong in that, I see nothing wrong in reading or owning a Koran in America. Isn't that what we are about?
I do not see anything wrong with Elvis-a Christian reading other religious books including a Koran. Christianity leaves choice open to every human and your choices decide you fate after you die-but those choices are not forced.
A view on any given subject is as narrow or broad as each person decides-thats America.
With all due respect, thats why its important to get facts... or supposed facts-pinned down so your decisions are well informed and not based on rumor or hearsay.

[KPM]

Now to the heart of this thread, EPE is not putting anyone at risk-anyone who goes on this trip will make that decision...if enough people fear the risk there will be no tour of the Holy Land.
Pat Boone has for years made trips to the Holy Land with other Christians who want to walk the streets that Jesus did, tour groups set up the tours and not one of the people who have visited with Pat Boone has ever been harmed.
Pat Robertson of the 700 Club has also hosted many trips to Isreal, not problems, this is not uncommon.
But any trip overseas in todays world will carry risks-people can decide that for themselves EPE is not forcing anyone to go.

Again, with all due respect, Muslim fans of Elvis-know he is a Christian....they know he believed in the Bible, they know he spoke of there being only one true King......Jesus. They listen to him singing the Christian hymn "How Great thou Art" on his records and concert films.........If they do not let that bother them-why would people visiting the Holy Land suddenly make angry. He is accepted for his talent and the joy he brings to them in his singing, they may feel as I do-his religion is his choice.
Muslims who are offended by Christians coming to the Holy Land, probably are not Elvis fans to start with- they would be offended by his Christian songs, and his pointing to Christ as God.

[Cliff]

Now to the heart of this thread, EPE is not putting anyone at risk-anyone who goes on this trip will make that decision...if enough people fear the risk there will be no tour of the Holy Land.
Pat Boone has for years made trips to the Holy Land with other Christians who want to walk the streets that Jesus did, tour groups set up the tours and not one of the people who have visited with Pat Boone has ever been harmed.
Pat Robertson of the 700 Club has also hosted many trips to Isreal, not problems, this is not uncommon.
But any trip overseas in todays world will carry risks-people can decide that for themselves EPE is not forcing anyone to go.

Again, with all due respect, Muslim fans of Elvis-know he is a Christian....they know he believed in the Bible, they know he spoke of there being only one true King......Jesus. They listen to him singing the Christian hymn "How Great thou Art" on his records and concert films.........If they do not let that bother them-why would people visiting the Holy Land suddenly make angry. He is accepted for his talent and the joy he brings to them in his singing, they may feel as I do-his religion is his choice.
Muslims who are offended by Christians coming to the Holy Land, probably are not Elvis fans to start with- they would be offended by his Christian songs, and his pointing to Christ as God.

You ask, "Why are they so angry." I don't feel they let there religious beliefs get in the way of there admiration and love for Elvis. Unlike we in the West, they don't all judge a man by his religion but by his deeds and his heart. Elvis had a special charisma that captured many people regardless of race,color, or creed.
I guess it has to be said, but it's the political aspect of the whole thing. I didn't really want to go down this road as this is not a political forum, but with the recent events in the Middle East, and in paricular the Iran / Israel conflict, this well may be seen as taking sides by EPE. It goes without saying that it would be impossible for this tour to go to Iran. But then why not any other Islamic country? This tour can only polarize people more and be seen as taking sides in the said conflicts. For this reason I think EPE should show a neutral stance and stay at home.
If the feeling is that I myself am taking sides because of my focusing on the Islamic aspect of all this, I can assure you this is not the case. I just do not like to see people judge others by what is written in the media. Find the good in people before you judge.

[buttonhead]

Well I dont feel offended with Elvis' religious song, to me he was sang to praised the Lord, his lord may call as Jesus, while mine is Allah, but God is good you know.

I would think Elvis would do the tour to the Holy land BUT just him as the citizen of the world, and not as an Entertainer, as like the rest of us going there to worship the Lord, I would assumed he would bring some of his closest friends only .. I am sure he had this kind of thought in his mind during his lifetime, although unwritten just like many other plan he had which unfinished due to his untimely death.


I dont get offended easily with many of story about Elvis being Christian,...etc. I guess I am the modern muslim, I am open minded about the world, we all born in different shape , colors, cultures and environment . I am not sure how the rest of Muslim or Christian Elvis fans would say ,to each its own I guess.

[elvia7]

I guess I don't understand the logic behind it, doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what EPE is thinking about mixing Elvis with religion. I don’t think Elvis would approve of this at all.

I agree.Elvis passed away. Respect is what he felt and what he believed. I think that faith is not the best topic to discuss.
We know who was the King for Elvis, Jesus. We know this from his speech. Let us respect the silence of the rest.

[KPM]

Holy Land tours usually mean going specifically to Israel and certain sites of Biblical interest to Christians-Iran, or Iraq are not part of these tours. Visitation to countries such as Iran or Iraq is not recommended by the State Dept for people just to sightsee....recent history provides the reasoning.....in Iran students and individuals are accused of spying and thrown in jail with little proof...
EPE would never have a tour to Iran or Iraq.
Like I said if enough people want to go on this tour-the tour will happen-individuals will weigh the situation and decide if they want to go.
If people decide its unwise or not prudent to go-it will not happen.
EPE bringing people to visit the Wailing Wall in Israel is not exactly a hostile invading force to either Muslims or Jews!
I think perhaps somehow the importance of a group of people going to visit Israel is being over dramatized-I do not think dark forces of evil are waiting to pounce because Elvis fans have invaded the Middle East;) nor that Middle Easteners who enjoy Elvis music will suddenly turn against him or his music because other people who enjoy his music want to come and spend money in their region...........that said........I repeat that the Middle East can be dangerous, just as literally any place in the world can be in todays society-but if tours go to Israel all the time from many differing groups.....I do not see anymore danger to an EPE tour group than to Pat Boones, or Robertsons, or Falwells groups etc... who tour there year after year...as for fallout of the trip?-EPE polarizing people in Islamic countries....the people who want to be... are already polarized against any and all influences other than their own-and the reasonable people can not be polarized and will pay no mind.

[vivaelvis]

Holy Land tours usually mean going specifically to Israel and certain sites of Biblical interest to Christians-Iran, or Iraq are not part of these tours. Visitation to countries such as Iran or Iraq is not recommended by the State Dept for people just to sightsee....recent history provides the reasoning.....in Iran students and individuals are accused of spying and thrown in jail with little proof...
EPE would never have a tour to Iran or Iraq.
Like I said if enough people want to go on this tour-the tour will happen-individuals will weigh the situation and decide if they want to go.
If people decide its unwise or not prudent to go-it will not happen.
EPE bringing people to visit the Wailing Wall in Israel is not exactly a hostile invading force to either Muslims or Jews!
I think perhaps somehow the importance of a group of people going to visit Israel is being over dramatized-I do not think dark forces of evil are waiting to pounce because Elvis fans have invaded the Middle East;) nor that Middle Easteners who enjoy Elvis music will suddenly turn against him or his music because other people who enjoy his music want to come and spend money in their region...........that said........I repeat that the Middle East can be dangerous, just as literally any place in the world can be in todays society-but if tours go to Israel all the time from many differing groups.....I do not see anymore danger to an EPE tour group than to Pat Boones, or Robertsons, or Falwells groups etc... who tour there year after year...as for fallout of the trip?-EPE polarizing people in Islamic countries....the people who want to be... are already polarized against any and all influences other than their own-and the reasonable people can not be polarized and will pay no mind.

Why is it that every time I make a post or thread, you nit pick at each one of them trying to find the wrongs instead of the rights? You are right though. We do NOT see eye to eye on these issues. But that doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong. It just gets irritating having to try to justify my posts all the time.

[KPM]

Why is it that every time I make a post or thread, you nit pick at each one of them trying to find the wrongs instead of the rights? You are right though. We do NOT see eye to eye on these issues. But that doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong. It just gets irritating having to try to justify my posts all the time.
I do not nit pick-but if something is wrong I will make comment on it, because you and I do seem to disagree on so much-I just do not find many "rights"
The idea of posting on threads is to read what someone posts and if you agree or have something to add, you do so....if you don't and you truely disagree, or know something is incorrect then you have to also do that.
Heres an example-you claim that your post on EPE finding the Koran in their archives in 2001 is not "hearsay" but it is just that.
Legally it is hearsay...I pointed this out because it is incorrect...not because it was you who posted it, not because I nit pick....because the statement was not correct. If someone tells you something that you do not have direct eye witness knowledge of.....it is hearsay.
Why should I bother to worry about such things, because I'm sure you, me and everyone here wants things to be accurate.
If I make a claim and it is not correct I fully expect to be told about it and proof given of how I goofed or am misinformed.
Thats why it is pretty second nature here to ask-"where did that story or bit of information come from"...the internet is a great place to learn things but its also a great place to be misinformed on any subject you care to name.
Its not personal-we just have totally different points of view.
You seem to be interested in things which point out perceived bad moves, gaffs, missteps, or greed of EPE, also the expansion Apollo or Sillermn and how it is so important, etc...........we just are at opposite ends on those subjects and approaches to them.
I am curious did you ever post here under a different name-I feel we have had this type discussion before-or maybe changed your name to Viva Elvis and I just never noticed the change?

[Cliff]

Why is it that every time I make a post or thread, you nit pick at each one of them trying to find the wrongs instead of the rights? You are right though. We do NOT see eye to eye on these issues. But that doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong. It just gets irritating having to try to justify my posts all the time.

Well said.
I must,at this point, make an apology. It seems that I was under the impression that this was a tour by the TCB Band etc. I guess I was/am guilty of seeing the word tour and jumping to conclusions,not realizing it was tour groups.
This puts a whole new light on my thinking but does not alter my views.
I guess I'm asking myself now is "Why is EPE getting into the tourist business?"

[vivaelvis]

I do not nit pick-but if something is wrong I will make comment on it, because you and I do seem to disagree on so much-I just do not find many "rights"
The idea of posting on threads is to read what someone posts and if you agree or have something to add, you do so....if you don't and you truely disagree, or know something is incorrect then you have to also do that.
Heres an example-you claim that your post on EPE finding the Koran in their archives in 2001 is not "hearsay" but it is just that.
Legally it is hearsay...I pointed this out because it is incorrect...not because it was you who posted it, not because I nit pick....because the statement was not correct. If someone tells you something that you do not have direct eye witness knowledge of.....it is hearsay.
Why should I bother to worry about such things, because I'm sure you, me and everyone here wants things to be accurate.
If I make a claim and it is not correct I fully expect to be told about it and proof given of how I goofed or am misinformed.
Thats why it is pretty second nature here to ask-"where did that story or bit of information come from"...the internet is a great place to learn things but its also a great place to be misinformed on any subject you care to name.
Its not personal-we just have totally different points of view.
You seem to be interested in things which point out perceived bad moves, gaffs, missteps, or greed of EPE, also the expansion Apollo or Sillermn and how it is so important, etc...........we just are at opposite ends on those subjects and approaches to them.
I am curious did you ever post here under a different name-I feel we have had this type discussion before-or maybe changed your name to Viva Elvis and I just never noticed the change?

Ken, let's just agree to disagree. Because you and I obviously do NOT see things the same way. It could be an age gap or something else, I don't know. But since I have been here you have question ALL of my posts. Now you ask if I posted under another name. That tells me all I need to know.

[vivaelvis]

Well said.
I must,at this point, make an apology. It seems that I was under the impression that this was a tour by the TCB Band etc. I guess I was/am guilty of seeing the word tour and jumping to conclusions,not realizing it was tour groups.
This puts a whole new light on my thinking but does not alter my views.
I guess I'm asking myself now is "Why is EPE getting into the tourist business?"

I have noticed that since EPE was sold to CKX back in 2005 that their decision making has been suspect at times. Now with yet a new ownership under Apollo it seems to be even more controversial and questionable. No tell ing what is coming next. EPE takes fans on a tour of Germany?

What I, as a fan of the man, would like to see them do is PROMOTE the MAN more than just the IMAGE.

[KPM]

Ken, let's just agree to disagree. Because you and I obviously do NOT see things the same way. It could be an age gap or something else, I don't know. But since I have been here you have question ALL of my posts. Now you ask if I posted under another name. That tells me all I need to know.
An age gap-yes I'm sure we have and age gap-but do not misunderstand that to mean-fuzzy minded or uniformed.
The question about you posting under a different name-or did you change your name and use to post under another-is a legit question....people have changed their screen names before and it goes unnoticed.
Not sure what my asking that question tells you my friend.
If you make a claim-that is totally new, such as the Ali/Koran mention-people will ask you about it, question your source and if you have a convincing answer you will change minds.
Some things are subjective-they are dealt with on a very personal basis-such as best song, best jumpsuit, best period of Elvis career......other things are philosophical..... his religious beliefs, his inner conflicts, his fears, his doubts....and we all may have differing opinions.
But when it comes to the Koran story-their is one right answer and one wrong answer it is not subjective you do understand that.
You brought up the story-you brought up the Koran and Ali and the saying "definitively" the Koran was in EPEs archives, and was given to Elvis by Ali.
Come on think about it that is going to be questioned on any Elvis forum-not just by me or JR and others.

You claim it is not "hearsay" when you did not actually see the Koran in EPEs archives, your unnamed source did not see the Koran in EPEs archives but a staffer told your source and he told you??? I have explained what hearsay evidence is-you ignore that. How did the meaning of hearsay come into the thread-because you claimed your story was not hearsay-you brought it into the discussion.
Give and take thats what we do when we debate -but somethings are not gray, they are black or white concrete answers which are not debateable and if you make a statement that is not known-someone is going to question it and its accuracy. Its not personal, its not nit picking to want any knowledge you may gain on Elvis to be as accurate as possible.

I am a stickler for accurate details, you may claim thats "an age gap" I am a stickler for accurate sourcing....I am unsure as to why that is somehow a bad thing.
You are obviously younger than me-but I would not stereotype you by making any judgements on how that affects your posts or your reasoning
When (and if;)) you and I agree upon something I will say so gladly-I think a few times in the past we have agreed on a few things......but when we do not-I will also state so and why...others can judge if I am fair.
Remember its not personal.

[KPM]

I have noticed that since EPE was sold to CKX back in 2005 that their decision making has been suspect at times. Now with yet a new ownership under Apollo it seems to be even more controversial and questionable. No tell ing what is coming next. EPE takes fans on a tour of Germany? What I, as a fan of the man, would like to see them do is PROMOTE the MAN more than just the IMAGE.
Germany is a beautiful country, I have a friend who actually did visit the neighborhood Elvis lived in during his Army days-he was himself in the service stationed near Berlin so he did not have to make a special trip overseas.
I doubt that a Tour of Germany is forthcoming by EPE-I'm sure you do also.

I ask you how would you "Promote the man not the Image" if you were calling the shots?
You do not own the music, you do not own the films, Sony will not sell, Warners will not even talk joint collaboration on EOT or TTWII, so tell me how you would Promote the Man. I am interested.

[KPM]

Well said.
I must,at this point, make an apology. It seems that I was under the impression that this was a tour by the TCB Band etc. I guess I was/am guilty of seeing the word tour and jumping to conclusions,not realizing it was tour groups.
This puts a whole new light on my thinking but does not alter my views.
I guess I'm asking myself now is "Why is EPE getting into the tourist business?"
EPE is in the tourist business now for 35 years, sorry but that is the truth of the matter.
I hate repeating myself so all who have heard this please forgive me-they do not own the music, they do not own the films they get no artist royaltees for the bulk of Elvis's music catalogue..... so they have no creative control over anything which was the creative spirit of Elvis Presley-they make little profit from the "creative life of Elvis Presley" and they did not create that situation....that is the situation that they inherited when Elvis died and later Vernon. The tourist and trinket business was all they had to market-and that is what they did to protect the estate.

Even the clips used in the traveling "Elvis In Concert" from EOT and TTWII must be licensed thru Warners and Sony to use.
Some have implied EPE has not tried to buy the music or films-85% of the image of Elvis was worth $100 million cash and substantial stock in CKX to Lisa-so how much would the music of Elvis be worth if bought lock stock and barrel???? Priceless is the answer.
Perhaps the bulk of the films are not as valuble as the music but still its hundreds of millions in value scattered among several companies...who do not wish to sell.
That is why for 35 years they have been in the tourist and trinket business.