Small unclarity about the very last day

[peter]

Did you notice, that there is one small unclarity about events of his sad last day?

On elvis.com.au sites is interview with Dr. Hoffman who was one of last people and last doctor who saw him alive.
(http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/interview_lester_hoffman.shtml)
Quote from that interview which get my notice:
Q : I'd like to talk a little bit about Elvis last night. He came to see you, what was the problem with Elvis?
A : Well, the last time I saw Elvis it was just a routine visit to check him over. ...Q : Did Elvis still not take anesthetics that night? A : No, it was just a routine visit, a cleaning and a check up, that was all.


Then another source - elvis-history.com which I think is pretty reliable source comes with this:
"Elvis calls Dr. Nick asking for painkillers, as the fillings he had are bothering him."

What happened next we all know, but dont you see contradiction in these informations? Dentist said that he just cleaned and checked the teeth, but then Elvis is asking for pills because teeth filling are bothering him? I think that we all know that after checking the teeth, they are almost always more sensitive than before visiting a dentist, but taking painkillers because of it? It seems strange to me and I have to think myself - maybe that he probably felt different problem because heart attacks are announced with strong pain and they can be "predicted" by EKG hours before they really become, so its even possible to avoid it... but then person with incoming heart attack would probably not be able to play raquetball because of that pain - it´s really strange, and maybe that it really finally was caused by combination of medicaments. :(

[KPM]

I do not think a small difference in the way his dental visit was described by 2 sources is really all that great a problem. People remember things differently, and they describe them differently even when both parties witness the same things directly in person. Elvis would not tolerate pain of any kind, and because he was so use to painkillers...any pain he had probably was seen as severe by him-so for him to ask for pain meds is not really a revelation.
As far as the pain of heart attack, many people do very strenous activities such as raquetball .....and then have massive heart attacks, Bing Crosby dropped dead after playing 18holes of golf from a massive heart attack-he had not mentioned he was having pain, Ross Martin died after a couple sets of tennis, he had been having mild pain in his shoulder and arm-that he thought was a muscle problem (since he had a history of heart trouble he should have paid closer attention) author Rod Serling had been jogging when he was struck with a fatal heart attack, my own grandfather died just sitting in his chair-but had been complaining for a few days of left shoulder pain.........heart attacks are much more complex than people realise-some people have them and do not even know they have, healthy people are killed by heart attacks each year who never had a hint of heart problems, and some people have warning signs for months but do not see the connection. There is no textbook heart attack-it hits everyone in a different way.

[gavsafc]

Elvis went for a root canal treatment that night, I heard this from joe esposito during some interview.

[JRtherealJR]

There have been varying accounts over the years over exactly what treatments Elvis had and also over what (if anything) Dr. Hofman prescribed him.

In the book REVELATIONS FROM THE MEMPHIS MAFIA it is stated the Dentist prescribed him Codeine.......while in the book THE DEATH OF ELVIS it says the Dr. gave Elvis 2 painkillers: 1 when he was in the chair and 1 when he left.

And in the book ELVIS CLOSE UP it is stated that the Dentist gave Elvis 50 Codeine tablets.

AS FOR THE TREATMENTS:

In REVELATIONS FROM THE MEMPHIS MAFIA, it says Elvis went to Dr. Hofman because a crown on a back tooth was giving him a problem.......while in Larry Geller's book IF I CAN DREAM, he says Elvis went to have a tooth filled.

So with so much contradiction it's impossible to be sure what happened!

[sasha]

I think I would believe the dentist. It was him that did the work, after all. Not Joe or anyone else. Joe wasn't even there . It was Billy Smith and Ginger that went to the dentist with him. So, yes. In my opinion that's a big question and needed to be
asked and proven.{If you ask Marty Lacker, he says Elvis wasn't allergic to codeine. } So, who are people supposed to believe ?

It's also stated Ricky picked up Dilaudid for Elvis from Dr Nick; yet none was found in the autopsy, nor it ever ever accounted for.The pharmacist was very upset, thinking it was he that filled that prescription that might have killed him. Why wasn't he told differently ? There's still a few questions that no one seems to be answering .At least with the same answer.

[yisagirl1]

There have been varying accounts over the years over exactly what treatments Elvis had and also over what (if anything) Dr. Hofman prescribed him.

In the book REVELATIONS FROM THE MEMPHIS MAFIA it is stated the Dentist prescribed him Codeine.......while in the book THE DEATH OF ELVIS it says the Dr. gave Elvis 2 painkillers: 1 when he was in the chair and 1 when he left.

And in the book ELVIS CLOSE UP it is stated that the Dentist gave Elvis 50 Codeine tablets.

AS FOR THE TREATMENTS:

In REVELATIONS FROM THE MEMPHIS MAFIA, it says Elvis went to Dr. Hofman because a crown on a back tooth was giving him a problem.......while in Larry Geller's book IF I CAN DREAM, he says Elvis went to have a tooth filled.

So with so much contradiction it's impossible to be sure what happened!

Yes, and I have heard an impacted twisted colon. So many. You are right. We probably have been fed too much.

[Diane]

I think I would believe the dentist. It was him that did the work, after all. Not Joe or anyone else. Joe wasn't even there . It was Billy Smith and Ginger that went to the dentist with him. So, yes. In my opinion that's a big question and needed to be
asked and proven.{If you ask Marty Lacker, he says Elvis wasn't allergic to codeine. } So, who are people supposed to believe ?

It's also stated Ricky picked up Dilaudid for Elvis from Dr Nick; yet none was found in the autopsy, nor it ever ever accounted for.The pharmacist was very upset, thinking it was he that filled that prescription that might have killed him. Why wasn't he told differently ? There's still a few questions that no one seems to be answering .At least with the same answer.

It was well known that Ricky and brothers were very much into drugs. He may have had that prescription filled for himself and it's not hard to wonder how many others had done the same and how often??

[sasha]

It was well known that Ricky and brothers were very much into drugs. He may have had that prescription filled for himself and it's not hard to wonder how many others had done the same and how often??
I think this was stated by many. That all the guys used the meds. bought and paid for ,in Elvis' name. Too many are long since gone to ever get the truth, I'm afriad. At least from ones that were really there . I wish Thompson and Cole had finished their expo that they'd started.Some are still looking though. Who knows?

[KPM]

I am not sure how 33 years after an event anyone will ever get the straight answers on many things and if we could somehow see a videotaped replay of all that everyone questions-lets face it people would question it, and debate what they saw;)
We all want to think that in moments of great stress "people act in totally rational expected" ways and...... later everyone recalls these events with total clarity and detail.....does not happen that way.
Some make a mountain out of these type inconsistencies and IMO many are just the way people react and remember in moments of difficult circumstance and great tragedy.
I'm sorry I just do not see how rehashing these things over and over and over does anything it has never resolved the questions (important or trivial)
But it does lead to further speculation which is a great national pastime-which is why the game Trivial Pursuit was invented.:D

[Diane]

I am not sure how 33 years after an event anyone will ever get the straight answers on many things and if we could somehow see a videotaped replay of all that everyone questions-lets face it people would question it, and debate what they saw;)
We all want to think that in moments of great stress "people act in totally rational expected" ways and...... later everyone recalls these events with total clarity and detail.....does not happen that way.
Some make a mountain out of these type inconsistencies and IMO many are just the way people react and remember in moments of difficult circumstance and great tragedy.
I'm sorry I just do not see how rehashing these things over and over and over does anything it has never resolved the questions (important or trivial)
But it does lead to further speculation which is a great national pastime-which is why the game Trivial Pursuit was invented.:D

You're right. If after 33 years the Elvis "mysteries" have not been solved....or if they have and no one is listening, there's no point in rehashing.

[sasha]

I am not sure how 33 years after an event anyone will ever get the straight answers on many things and if we could somehow see a videotaped replay of all that everyone questions-lets face it people would question it, and debate what they saw;)
We all want to think that in moments of great stress "people act in totally rational expected" ways and...... later everyone recalls these events with total clarity and detail.....does not happen that way.
Some make a mountain out of these type inconsistencies and IMO many are just the way people react and remember in moments of difficult circumstance and great tragedy.
I'm sorry I just do not see how rehashing these things over and over and over does anything it has never resolved the questions (important or trivial)
But it does lead to further speculation which is a great national pastime-which is why the game Trivial Pursuit was invented.:D
Isn't that everyone does on an Elvis site? Speculate on what they think he coulda/shoulda done? Or why he didn't? I won't argue any points , that's not worth it. I just have a thing about people telling the truth, instead of making up stories. If one doesn't know the truth, it might be better just to say so instead of writing a book implying they do. Plus of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own "facts." Closure on some of this would help a lot of people.

[Diane]

I agree, closure would be nice but it won't ever happen. Too many people are covering for themselves or have misconstrued the facts for one reason or another. For myself, the truth doesn't matter anymore. Elvis was human and I never expected perfection from him. There were some things about him that were said that I didn't like but I accept it as human frailty and that we all have. He was basically a warm, generous human being and a fantastic performer who had and has still no equal and that more than good enough for me.

[KPM]

Isn't that everyone does on an Elvis site? Speculate on what they think he coulda/shoulda done? Or why he didn't? I won't argue any points , that's not worth it. I just have a thing about people telling the truth, instead of making up stories. If one doesn't know the truth, it might be better just to say so instead of writing a book implying they do. Plus of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own "facts." Closure on some of this would help a lot of people.
You are correct, everyone speculates here based on what others right or say....and those close to Elvis, I mean the inner circle who constituted the closest people to him on a continuing basis (and I will not mention all the names because we all know them-but Billy Smith would surely be a name we can all agree on) they would have a much deeper understanding of Elvis's day to day life year in and year out.
So if you get pretty consistent versions of the same events (with some a little more harsh, some a little softer in tone and nature) you can have an educated speculation on who and what a person was (public and private) Its like a curve in grading papers-throw out the worst and the best and grade in the center.
Example
Soft tone-"Elvis was upset all day, and it affected us"
Harsh tone-"Elvis was mad as he**l all day and rode us about every single thing like a madman-it seemed to never end"
And it is possible that each saw it exactly as they wrote it, or maybe each was being less than honest-thats human existence, we all see it different.
I would say that no one has the complete truth on anyone (if you have not walked in that mans shoes......) but someone like Billy,who has been involved in a few books and projects about Elvis, would be someone who has a definite view that others do not0-and when he says or writes something it would have a closer ring of truth than people who were casual friends, associates, professional ties etc......
You speak of closure-its an easy word to use-but ellusive in nature. Closure for who?? Lisa, Billy, Red, Sonny, Lamar, or are we talking fans, ......you, me, people who think he is still alive-people who think he was killed, or committed suicide.
Millions loved Elvis-undeniable-but closure for many of them will not come if they continue to look for answers that very likely will never satisfy their incessant questions of intrigue and suspicion of.......... something?? Something, there has to be something that is not right, not correct not on the up and up????
Closure for these individual will never come-because IMO-they will not let it. They just will not accept it.
As for the specific people Lisa, Billy, Red, etc..........I never walked in their shoes, I have never seen thru their eyes........so each knows what closure means to them and them alone.

[sasha]

I think "closure" means different things to different people. I do, however like to believe a medical doctor might know more than a relative or any "friend". { In cases of relying on medical information or opinions.} Closure will only come for some when all questions are answered ; without so many different answers. As most "authotities" have stated ," that was a medical examiners case." That's the way it should have been handled, not to appease anyone in Memphis.I wish them success in finding answers.

[Diane]

You're speaking of the closure to questions about Elvis' death and you are right, only the doctors know the full truth there but they are done with it and have said all they wanted to say. At this point, I don't think they will open up anymore than they have in the past. Either they are respecting the family or have told it all before and then again, some of the doctors didn't agree on everything so who are we to believe? We can only go with what makes the most sense to us and not what we wish to believe if we are to get closer to the truth.

[Tigerman1975]

There have been varying accounts over the years over exactly what treatments Elvis had and also over what (if anything) Dr. Hofman prescribed him.

In the book REVELATIONS FROM THE MEMPHIS MAFIA it is stated the Dentist prescribed him Codeine.......while in the book THE DEATH OF ELVIS it says the Dr. gave Elvis 2 painkillers: 1 when he was in the chair and 1 when he left.

And in the book ELVIS CLOSE UP it is stated that the Dentist gave Elvis 50 Codeine tablets.

AS FOR THE TREATMENTS:

In REVELATIONS FROM THE MEMPHIS MAFIA, it says Elvis went to Dr. Hofman because a crown on a back tooth was giving him a problem.......while in Larry Geller's book IF I CAN DREAM, he says Elvis went to have a tooth filled.

So with so much contradiction it's impossible to be sure what happened!

Very well put.

[KPM]

I think "closure" means different things to different people. I do, however like to believe a medical doctor might know more than a relative or any "friend". { In cases of relying on medical information or opinions.} Closure will only come for some when all questions are answered ; without so many different answers. As most "authotities" have stated ," that was a medical examiners case." That's the way it should have been handled, not to appease anyone in Memphis.I wish them success in finding answers.
Well the doctors directly involved can not legally say anything-the will is sealed, so they can not divulge any info in it-and the doctors involved did not agree on eveything......nothing sinister in that IMO-bring in any group of "specialists" in any field and you very likely will have differing accounts of what the cause of any one problem may be in any situation they look at.
As far as a medical examiner should have been brought in-maybe so........ but that is exactly why in 94 Dr. Davis was brought in "by court order" to review the autopsy reports, toxicology reports, etc....to see if anything did not jive.....he just did not find anything. He reported this to the court-as he told you. So although in 1977 no medical examiner was called, after "years of speculation the courts acted" and Dr Davis was called to review and investigate.
So the speculation about.... why was this not done, why was this not checked, why was this allowed to happen??? was looked into by a world class top notch medical examiner and he found nothing..... and it did not stop the speculation...... it did not answer the questions of the individuals who need "closure" they seem to disregard his expert opinion.
SO his doctors medical opinion seems to carry little weight with some?
I will also add, the court would have to verify all the reports, or tissue slides, or toxicology documents and the chain of their handling as a matter of standard legal practice...... (because I know that some will say, it was not the "real reports from the autopsy" that Dr. Davis was given)
This makes my point-which is "NOTHING" will suffice for some individuals, as you say who are looking for closure.
They will never be satisfied with any answer IMO. just as some with Loch Ness will not, some with Kennedy will not, some with Lincolns assassination will not.........
I also wish success to those with burning questions and doubts-success in accepting answers.

[monk37]

I've always read it was more than a cleaning and that the Dentist gave him codeine pills

[sasha]

I've always read it was more than a cleaning and that the Dentist gave him codeine pills


This is an interview he did: http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/interview_lester_hoffman.shtml



Q : Did Elvis still not take anesthetics that night?

A : No, it was just a routine visit, a cleaning and a check up, that was all.

Video: http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/61739767

[monk37]

well, part of the problem is that under extreme stress, you're not a rational actor in the situation.

nor is your memory of the event correct anymore - and when you tell a version, over time, it becomes the official version - and even that will drift over time.

When I found my Uncle's body, I remember shaking him and begging him not to be dead.

I remember phoning 911, but not how I got from the bathroom to the kitchen - I had to run outside to tell them the address, I don't remember going back inside

I jut remember that the ambulance guys were there and I was sitting on the floor in the kitchen banging my head hard against the cupboard - to punish myself for not arriving sooner? for imagining that I would find him dead when I went to check on him? to just something, anything.

what astonishes me is that none of the police or medical people took even a moment to realize that I was in shock and distress.

I remember asking for a hand towel and walking around in circles in the living room, crying so that I couldn't really see.

I remember someone saying "You know he's dead, right"

it all seems like it was 10 minutes, but then my younger sister was there and she had walked the 40 blocks - she was a sobbing mess and that made me stop crying - I had to protect my little sister.


so, I can imagine that Joe, Charlie and everyone else there was in a similar state of shock - Elvis was the centre of their world.

routine things like the dentist treatment wouldn't be recalled,

There's many accounts of who came up when Ginger called

Joe first, Joe and Charlie, Al Strada??? different books say different things.

in the Nancy Rooks maid remembers book - she said that she got Ginger's call and she went up, saw Elvis and then called for Joe.

I'd never read that account before her book - perhaps because no one had interviewed her?

[Tigerman1975]

There's many accounts of who came up when Ginger called

Joe first, Joe and Charlie, Al Strada??? different books say different things.

in the Nancy Rooks maid remembers book - she said that she got Ginger's call and she went up, saw Elvis and then called for Joe.

I'd never read that account before her book - perhaps because no one had interviewed her?

I've always heard that Al Strada was the one who was upstairs first.

[rickb]

Sadly we will never know for sure. It is a mystery Elvis took to his grave.

[KPM]

People want to know all these things, and feel maybe they are owed answers-but even if all the questions were clear and easily answered-we are not the people answers are owed to. We are fans of someone that we loved for his singing and charisma-but just fans. Not family, not super close friends, nor even acquaintances-we feel closer than that I know-but sometimes we should realise we are not. Sure Elvis was a public person, but how much do we need to know or have a right to know? How much do we "think" we have the right to know? Two very different things. IMO
I love discussing Elvis, if I had all my time free I probably would spend more doing so, but somethings we will never know, never be positive of and all the questions and speculative answers in the world will not change that.

IMO The people who really did deserve answers, and had their own questions......evidently got them... or we would have seen non stop investigations until the questions were answered.
I am happy Elvis lived, and has given me so much pleasure with his music and performances, and at times the tabloid mentality just gets to me.