dr nick- dr feelgood ?

[lvs2day]

was looking through the latest interview with dr nick that was done between him and ELVIS infonet and it just seems to me that dr nick still is in denial, about his incompitence and being starstruck. Saying that he lost his licensce because of the media's story's over the years is totaly outrageous and that he perscribed pills not just for E.P. but for band members , memphis mafia, crew etc, all in ELVIS name[and he didnot have a problem with this] , what kind of ethics did this so called doctor have?

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I have in the past heaped all the blame on Dr. Nick, over the last few years however I have come to understand that there is a whole bigger issue around Elvis' prescribed meds. There were other Doctors across the US who were willing to give Elvis what ever he wanted. I don't disagree with the fact that Dr. Nick was star struck and probably felt honoured to be a part of the gang in the 70's. Dr. Nick probably thought he could control Elvis' addictions, but if others were prescribing meds it's hard to keep a handle on the situation.

We all have this vision of Doctors as being above reproach but they are human too with all the weakness' that go along with it. Dr. Nick is not totally responsible for Elvis' death, he is just part of the problem, how big will depend on who is deciding.

[kathy parkinson]

I agree, i too thought he was to blame, but, over the years have come to accept that there were other people out there who were only to keen to keep Elvis supplied with pills, and sadly, Elvis knew what he was doing, he's as much to blame as anyone else.

[debtdbruno]

I agree with you JJ and Kathy.

My advice, is read the book.

[May]

I agree, i too thought he was to blame, but, over the years have come to accept that there were other people out there who were only to keen to keep Elvis supplied with pills, and sadly, Elvis knew what he was doing, he's as much to blame as anyone else.

Exactly right. (y) If if hadn't been Dr Nick, it would have been someone else.

However :hmm: I wonder if all the "proper" doctors had refused him and he ended up getting the MM to procure the drugs illegally. I wonder if that would have woken him up to the fact that what he was doing to himself was harmful. I doubt it, because anyone in denial is always going to find justification somewhere, but you never know, it may have given him the little shove he needed to realise what he was doing to himself. :hmm::hmm:

[sasha]

It would probably help to read the book & see what's said.

IF Elvis was as ill as stated; then he would need the medicine he was given.
IF anyone has ever had a problem trying to get some sleep; most would do anything to get some rest.
IF Elvis had problems after the doctor in Vegas treated Elvis as most have said; he should have been brought into this too.

I find it helps to try & look at the whole picture & everyone involved.
The lifestyle that everyone had to live didn't help either.

[May]

However much we all look at it, we still can't really comprehend his situation. It was a different time too. We are all going to judge it by todays issues. Sleeping pills werent such a big deal back then. No one knew how they affected people, like they do now. Look at Marilyn Monroe and Judy Garland.

I suffer from insomnia, only in the last few years. It's not just as simple as "if you are tired, you will sleep". Its kind of a vicious circle. You lie awake wanting to get back to sleep, then you get frustrated because you can't. Then once you are frustrated, your blood is up and no matter what you do you can't relax, let alone sleep. I imagine Elvis's blood was up just from the natural high you get when on stage. Then maybe (as has been said) he was so dopey in the morning he needed pills to jump start him. Then with the pills being taken on a regular basis, you obviously need more and more to have the same effect. then taking all these drugs must affect your body and you have mood swings...

All very sad.

[KPM]

I think Dr. Nick felt he was trying to curb the amount of drugs to Elvis (and also Jerry Lee Lewis) but I think he supplied quite a few-and he says he felt many were justified during his years of practice.
In 1995 Nichopoulos had his license permanently suspended by the Tennessee Board of Medical Examiners, after it was revealed that he had been overprescribing to numerous patients for years. Nichopoulos claimed it was for patients that suffered from inoperable chronic pain, but he was unsuccessful in his defense. During his many appeals, Dr Nick admitted to the board that he had overprescribed. 'I cared too much,' he told them. During his court cases many friends supported him, raising money and holding benefits to pay for court costs

[sasha]

From what I understand; there was no protocol back then for treating "addiction" of anything.
At least I wasn't aware of any back then either.
Another thing that held some back was; they felt they were "weak" if they asked for help.
So, doctors did what they thought was best.

Today, there's "treatment centers" for all kinds of addictions.
Ask some of our "celebrities."

In the end; there's no way we can ever know what it was to live another persons life.
It's just too sad & doesn't help pointing fingers, blaming others or getting angry.
It's over & done; enjoy what's been given to us.

[monk37]

today, you aren't an A-list celeb unless you're addicted to something and confess it in public

Funny that it doesn't occur to Dr Nick that is isn't legal to give prescriptions for a group of people you aren't treating

If I need drugs, the doctor has to prescribe them to me, not my spouse or my next door neighbour

[sasha]

today, you aren't an A-list celeb unless you're addicted to something and confess it in public

Funny that it doesn't occur to Dr Nick that is isn't legal to give prescriptions for a group of people you aren't treating
If I need drugs, the doctor has to prescribe them to me, not my spouse or my next door neighbour
I agree with you on this. At least as far as I've ever known.
Though throughout the history of medicine; scripts have been made out in others names and/or stolen.
There's a well known radio talk show host that was found to have done just this..;)

[dstrattenfan]

In the end it really was Elvis's fault...yeah the doctors gave him the meds but they sure as hell didn't force him to take them. Dr. Nick and all the other doctors who gave him that stuff make me sick. As much as I hate to admit it Dr Nick did save Elvis several times from overdoes...After that Nick should have said thats it no more if u want to kill ur self than be my guest but I'll be ****ed if I'll be the one giving that junk out...I want to smack the first doctor that gave him the heavy stuff, he wasn't a cancer patient or anything like that so why would u give that stuff to a healthy person

[sasha]

In the end it really was Elvis's fault...yeah the doctors gave him the meds but they sure as hell didn't force him to take them. Dr. Nick and all the other doctors who gave him that stuff make me sick. As much as I hate to admit it Dr Nick did save Elvis several times from overdoes...After that Nick should have said thats it no more if u want to kill ur self than be my guest but I'll be ****ed if I'll be the one giving that junk out...I want to smack the first doctor that gave him the heavy stuff, he wasn't a cancer patient or anything like that so why would u give that stuff to a healthy person
And you know Elvis was healthy , how?

[elvia7]

I have in the past heaped all the blame on Dr. Nick, over the last few years however I have come to understand that there is a whole bigger issue around Elvis' prescribed meds. There were other Doctors across the US who were willing to give Elvis what ever he wanted. I don't disagree with the fact that Dr. Nick was star struck and probably felt honoured to be a part of the gang in the 70's. Dr. Nick probably thought he could control Elvis' addictions, but if others were prescribing meds it's hard to keep a handle on the situation.

We all have this vision of Doctors as being above reproach but they are human too with all the weakness' that go along with it. Dr. Nick is not totally responsible for Elvis' death, he is just part of the problem, how big will depend on who is deciding.

O agree with you Matt. Not only Dr. Nick to give Elvis what ever he wanted:'(:notworthy

[debtdbruno]

It would probably help to read the book & see what's said.

IF Elvis was as ill as stated; then he would need the medicine he was given.
IF anyone has ever had a problem trying to get some sleep; most would do anything to get some rest.
IF Elvis had problems after the doctor in Vegas treated Elvis as most have said; he should have been brought into this too.

I find it helps to try & look at the whole picture & everyone involved.
The lifestyle that everyone had to live didn't help either.

well said Sasha(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

I can't put down here all that's in the book, surfice to say it is enlightening.
Elvis had even more ailments than I realised, there is a lot more explaination of them and how Dr Nick tried to find ways round 'the situation'.
Ultimately he was fighting a losing battle, as Elvis was getting meds from other sources........

[KPM]

Pain problems are very subjective-in other words one mans severe pain, could seem minor to someone with a higher pain threshhold. I try to remember that.
Its hard for me to know how pain affects someone else, except for comparing it to my own health problems and conditions.
Dr. Nick has said Elvis had arthritis for some years in the neck and spine, we all know of his congenital colon problem and in one book I've read Dr. Nick mentions Elvis had problems with pleurisy a couple times in his association with Elvis-we all know of his lifelong sleep problem.
Now how do I rank the problems compared to my own-I have arthritis in my knees, and one elbow, it started about 20 years ago and has got progressively worse. In the last 10 years or so my knees bother me so much at night-that I can not lay anyway which helps-so I sleep little on those nights, the arthritis medication I take helps some. It goes and it comes the longest stretch I have gone with it hurting-2 weeks last winter. It can be just an ache here and there..........to out and out constant pain throbbing which does not stop.
I have mentioned before I have had divertriculitis-which is a colon condition and it caused a severe amount of pain in the lower abdomen-cramps, sharp stabbing-it can make you bedridden and it is nothing to fool with.
I have had recurring bouts with pleurisy since 1975-pleurisy is about as bad a pain as I can imagine-if you cough, sneeze, laugh to hard, move too quick, even deep breathes or yawns cause a knife like pain that sends a shock thru your whole body-and it lingers. (In 1992 I had pleurisy 4 times in one year and I thought I was going to die)
I am also a worrier-and have had on and off sleeping problems related to worry and stress-not being able to sleep for long periods of time is torture.
So if all Nick says about Elvis is true-(and the congenital colon problem is confirmed outside of Dr. Nick) I would say that Elvis must have dealt with pain for sustained periods of time in his life-once again I go by my own experiences.
If you have never had similar problems it may be hard to imagine what they are like.
When I was a kid my grandma spoke of her arthritis and I could not imagine it could be so bad-until I started to develope it myself.........feeling is belief and understanding.
Now how severe the pain was for Elvis-I have no clue because my pain threshold may be higher or lower than his.

[sasha]

Talking about this reminds me of anther young man that died too soon.
Not saying this is what happened with Elvis.
I just recall everyone saying Maurice's death was drug related at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Gibb

"Maurice Gibb died at a Miami Beach, Florida, hospital on 12 January 2003
of complications resulting from a twisted intestine (volvulus)."

Truth is; none of will ever know unless the family decides to release the autopsy.
That's Tennessee law.

[dstrattenfan]

And you know Elvis was healthy , how?

Give me a freakin break...

And how the hell do you know that he wasen't healthy....He was taking drugs for TERMALLY ILL CANCER patients for gods sake, and the last time i checked Elvis didn't have cancer.

Hey do me a favor and look up Dilaudid....Nevermind I'll do it for you:

Hydromorphone’s effects are markedly similar to morphine, except the euphoria is closer to codeine. Nausea and vomiting is quite rare, and sedation is practically non-existent.

Hydromorphone's abuse potential comes from the fact that its euphoric intravenous rush is very similar to heroin's. Hydromorphone is one of the most prescribed opioids in the relief of pain for the terminally ill due to its minimal side effects and high potency.

Generally, when given intravenously, Dialudid’s analgesic action is apparent within 15 minutes and remains in effect for more than 5 hours. The onset of action of oral hydromorphone is somewhat slower, with measurable analgesia occurring within 30 minutes.

He was certanly not ill enough to be takeing that strong of a medication.

[piretos]

I have in the past heaped all the blame on Dr. Nick, over the last few years however I have come to understand that there is a whole bigger issue around Elvis' prescribed meds. There were other Doctors across the US who were willing to give Elvis what ever he wanted. I don't disagree with the fact that Dr. Nick was star struck and probably felt honoured to be a part of the gang in the 70's. Dr. Nick probably thought he could control Elvis' addictions, but if others were prescribing meds it's hard to keep a handle on the situation.

We all have this vision of Doctors as being above reproach but they are human too with all the weakness' that go along with it. Dr. Nick is not totally responsible for Elvis' death, he is just part of the problem, how big will depend on who is deciding.

I agree with you J.J(y)(y)
By the way i love your new avatar;) It's very cool:P

[Diane]

Give me a freakin break...

And how the hell do you know that he wasen't healthy....He was taking drugs for TERMALLY ILL CANCER patients for gods sake, and the last time i checked Elvis didn't have cancer.

Hey do me a favor and look up Dilaudid....Nevermind I'll do it for you:

Who gave him the Dialude in

Hydromorphone’s effects are markedly similar to morphine, except the euphoria is closer to codeine. Nausea and vomiting is quite rare, and sedation is practically non-existent.

Hydromorphone's abuse potential comes from the fact that its euphoric intravenous rush is very similar to heroin's. Hydromorphone is one of the most prescribed opioids in the relief of pain for the terminally ill due to its minimal side effects and high potency.

Generally, when given intravenously, Dialudid’s analgesic action is apparent within 15 minutes and remains in effect for more than 5 hours. The onset of action of oral hydromorphone is somewhat slower, with measurable analgesia occurring within 30 minutes.

He was certanly not ill enough to be takeing that strong of a medication.

Had Elvis not been given Dilaudid he wouldn't have gotten addicted to it so you have to ask yourself...who gave it to him in the first place and why???

Diane

[presley31]

Give me a freakin break...

And how the hell do you know that he wasen't healthy....He was taking drugs for TERMALLY ILL CANCER patients for gods sake, and the last time i checked Elvis didn't have cancer.

Hey do me a favor and look up Dilaudid....Nevermind I'll do it for you:

Hydromorphone’s effects are markedly similar to morphine, except the euphoria is closer to codeine. Nausea and vomiting is quite rare, and sedation is practically non-existent.

Hydromorphone's abuse potential comes from the fact that its euphoric intravenous rush is very similar to heroin's. Hydromorphone is one of the most prescribed opioids in the relief of pain for the terminally ill due to its minimal side effects and high potency.

Generally, when given intravenously, Dialudid’s analgesic action is apparent within 15 minutes and remains in effect for more than 5 hours. The onset of action of oral hydromorphone is somewhat slower, with measurable analgesia occurring within 30 minutes.

He was certanly not ill enough to be takeing that strong of a medication.

Sasha was only wondering and elvis wasn't all that healthy since he wass popping pills since the army or maybe sooner than that. A body can't handle all that stuff all the time. Elvis already had a problem..he was enjoying what the pills did to him.

[sasha]

Give me a freakin break...

And how the hell do you know that he wasen't healthy....He was taking drugs for TERMALLY ILL CANCER patients for gods sake, and the last time i checked Elvis didn't have cancer.

Hey do me a favor and look up Dilaudid....Nevermind I'll do it for you:

Hydromorphone’s effects are markedly similar to morphine, except the euphoria is closer to codeine. Nausea and vomiting is quite rare, and sedation is practically non-existent.

Hydromorphone's abuse potential comes from the fact that its euphoric intravenous rush is very similar to heroin's. Hydromorphone is one of the most prescribed opioids in the relief of pain for the terminally ill due to its minimal side effects and high potency.

Generally, when given intravenously, Dialudid’s analgesic action is apparent within 15 minutes and remains in effect for more than 5 hours. The onset of action of oral hydromorphone is somewhat slower, with measurable analgesia occurring within 30 minutes.

He was certanly not ill enough to be takeing that strong of a medication.
I don't get too excited, been looking at this too long. A discussion is always good though.
The more one looks & discusses the more one finds out.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydromorphone

Hydromorphone is used in medicine as an alternative to morphine and diacetylmorphine for analgesia, and as a second- or third-line narcotic antitussive (cough suppressant) for cases of dry, painful, paroxysmal coughing resulting from continuing bronchial irritation after influenza and other ailments, inhalation of fungus, and other causes.
Do not use this medication if you have ever had an allergic reaction to a narcotic medicine (examples include codeine, methadone, morphine, Oxycontin, Darvocet, Percocet, Vicodin, Lortab, and many others).

http://www.freestate.net/johgrove/elc/LC_tox_report.html

Ethinamate, Methaqualone, codeine and barbiturates.
Dr. Francisco was quoted as saying that four other drugs–the antihistamine chlorpheniramine, meperidine, morphine and Valium–were found in what were said to be insignificant amounts.

[KPM]

Give me a freakin break...

And how the hell do you know that he wasen't healthy....He was taking drugs for TERMALLY ILL CANCER patients for gods sake, and the last time i checked Elvis didn't have cancer.

Hey do me a favor and look up Dilaudid....Nevermind I'll do it for you:

Hydromorphone’s effects are markedly similar to morphine, except the euphoria is closer to codeine. Nausea and vomiting is quite rare, and sedation is practically non-existent.

Hydromorphone's abuse potential comes from the fact that its euphoric intravenous rush is very similar to heroin's. Hydromorphone is one of the most prescribed opioids in the relief of pain for the terminally ill due to its minimal side effects and high potency.

Generally, when given intravenously, Dialudid’s analgesic action is apparent within 15 minutes and remains in effect for more than 5 hours. The onset of action of oral hydromorphone is somewhat slower, with measurable analgesia occurring within 30 minutes.

He was certanly not ill enough to be takeing that strong of a medication.

With all respect-Dilaudid is not primarily a pain reliever used for terminal cancer patients- and it is not for only the worst type of pain-Straight morphine is still the pain medication used for most terminal cancer patients I witnessed it being used in the last few years for my mother in law and it was given to her in a "sucker"when her pain became bad, also my uncle just died of oral cancer this last month and he was given staight morphine in his IV.
.....Hydromorphone is used to treat moderate to severe pain. It acts on certain centers in the brain to give you pain relief. This medication is a narcotic pain reliever (opiate-type).
My wife was given dilaudid when she had gallbladder surgary in 1981 and she used it for about a month after-this was not a cancer situation-moderater to severe pain is a wide range.
More than 250,000 terminal cancer patients each year take morphine, for pain relief.

As far as pain and illness-the MM have said he for years had cases of enemas for his congenital colon problem on stock (the problem was aggravated by poor diet and over medication) so how painful his condition was-is anyones guess. But a ganglionic fold in the colon means it never fully works as it should-because of the narrow path at the fold-it worsens as you age-and today if it caused chronic pain they would remove the section with the fold and bypass it to keep the rest of the colon healthy.
According to Dr. Nick this was explored in 1975-76 but no doctor wanted to do it. Elvis tells Red West in the famous recorded call-that the problem is better and hes fine (not true)
But once again how painful this condition was-is only a guess on anyones part.

[sasha]

I agree, KPM. Dilaudid is not primarily a pain reliever used for terminal cancer patients.
That's been said for a long time. Thanks for your vision in seeing this.

[KPM]

All I can say this about periods of intense pain-you will do anything to get relief.
Once again I am not judging the pain Elvis may or may have not had.
When I have had pleurisy which is an inflammation of the pleura, the lining of the pleural cavity surrounding the lungs, the pleural layers rub against each other every time the lungs expand to breathe in air and it is a condition which is beyond painful-its unbearable when you sneeze or cough.....when you are laying on your back or side-you can not just stand up normally....you have to ease up so the lungs do not move too quickly. I was given painkillers for that condition-if I had not had them I don't know what I would have done. I was lucky they did not have to drain any fluid from the plural cavity.

[dstrattenfan]

With all respect-Dilaudid is not primarily a pain reliever used for terminal cancer patients- and it is not for only the worst type of pain-Straight morphine is still the pain medication used for most terminal cancer patients I witnessed it being used in the last few years for my mother in law and it was given to her in a "sucker"when her pain became bad, also my uncle just died of oral cancer this last month and he was given staight morphine in his IV.
.....Hydromorphone is used to treat moderate to severe pain. It acts on certain centers in the brain to give you pain relief. This medication is a narcotic pain reliever (opiate-type).
My wife was given dilaudid when she had gallbladder surgary in 1981 and she used it for about a month after-this was not a cancer situation-moderater to severe pain is a wide range.
More than 250,000 terminal cancer patients each year take morphine, for pain relief.

As far as pain and illness-the MM have said he for years had cases of enemas for his congenital colon problem on stock (the problem was aggravated by poor diet and over medication) so how painful his condition was-is anyones guess. But a ganglionic fold in the colon means it never fully works as it should-because of the narrow path at the fold-it worsens as you age-and today if it caused chronic pain they would remove the section with the fold and bypass it to keep the rest of the colon healthy.
According to Dr. Nick this was explored in 1975-76 but no doctor wanted to do it. Elvis tells Red West in the famous recorded call-that the problem is better and hes fine (not true)
But once again how painful this condition was-is only a guess on anyones part.

I just had my gallbladder removed 2 weeks ago and I understand pain..I was given morphine in the recovery room...

I found my brother dead on the floor in 2001 and do u want to know how he ended up that way? From hurting himself to get pain meds just like Elvis.. he would lie cheat and steal to get a fix just like Elvis. Frankly this is all crap because none of us here are doctors but Elvis shoulden't have been prescribed the extremely high dosages.. i watched my grandpa die of cancer 2 months before my brother..It is just absurd to believe that he was in so much physical pain HELLO he was an actor for heavens sake...He was in pain alright it's called addiction!!

And FYI the discribtion of the drug that I posted was from the PDR

[lvs2day]

in the end i do honestly believe and blame ELVIS PRESLEY for his own demise , but many doctors are only to happy to hand out perscriptions for any ailment, DR nick was no differn't the thing is he was convicted of over prescibing for to many if not all his patients, insteda of taking some responsability he decides to blame the press for having his license revoked[a very serious claim] and not one that i buy , i'm sure the medical board saw and agreed that dr nick was up to no good. I t is well known that he owned ELVIS alot of money on a loan for a new home he purchased and a new medical building that he had invested in, DR nick's main source of income and best client was ELVIS PRESLEY, and ELVIS worst enemy was himself he self destructed. I would like to thank all of you for your opinons and great points that you continually to bring up, it sure is sad that we lost him and more importantly that he lost himself , i do look forward to more of your great posts on this touchy subject.

[sasha]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I just hope everyone takes the time to read Thompson & Cole book
as well as Nicks.

My opinion is; it's time to stop casting blame & let everyone RIP.
If you want to blame the doctors, fine, most of them are dead too.
If you want to blame Elvis, he's not in a position to care either.

If you really want to know what happened ,then open your eyes & your heart.
For me, I've just about looked long enough. I'll take Elvis just as he was.
Better yet, talk to the real people that were there .

[May]

Good post Sasha.

[presley31]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I just hope everyone takes the time to read Thompson & Cole book
as well as Nicks.

My opinion is; it's time to stop casting blame & let everyone RIP.
If you want to blame the doctors, fine, most of them are dead too.
If you want to blame Elvis, he's not in a position to care either.

If you really want to know what happened ,then open your eyes & your heart.
For me, I've just about looked long enough. I'll take Elvis just as he was.
Better yet, talk to the real people that were there .

Agreed. Like everyone l do wish that things didn't turn out the way they did with elvis, but it's done and nothing can change that now.

[Diane]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I just hope everyone takes the time to read Thompson & Cole book
as well as Nicks.

My opinion is; it's time to stop casting blame & let everyone RIP.
If you want to blame the doctors, fine, most of them are dead too.

Loved your post too
If you want to blame Elvis, he's not in a position to care either.

If you really want to know what happened ,then open your eyes & your heart.
For me, I've just about looked long enough. I'll take Elvis just as he was.
Better yet, talk to the real people that were there .

Love your post. When you love someone you take the good and bad(y)(y)(y)

Diane

[monk37]

but wasn't terminal cancer patients what it was used for in the 70's, even if it is now used for other things?

[monk37]

in the end i do honestly believe and blame ELVIS PRESLEY for his own demise , but many doctors are only to happy to hand out perscriptions for any ailment, ..


I agree and would only note that even as a non-famous/not rich person, if you find the right lazy or too busy doctor, you can get drugs that far exceed what pains or aliments you actually have.

My father in law for example, was given 8000 Tylenol Three in a 2 month period of time for his knee (he'd had a replacement knee cap several years previously and would get all kinds of pain killers)

[dstrattenfan]

but wasn't terminal cancer patients what it was used for in the 70's, even if it is now used for other things?

THANK U that was my point

[monk37]

@ dstrattenfan

you're welcome

Part of the problem of looking at earlier decades is people view them through the filter of Today.

It annoys me mightily when people dismiss Emily Murphy and the Group of Five for being racist (which they were) and ignore that they were the ones who got women the vote in Canada.

It's not fair to expect people to be better than their times - and for the few who are, it's not likely that they will be on all aspects.

Elvis was not racist, but he was a little bit sexist - but that is easily overlook-able given the lack of racism is such a remarkable feat and the sexism was fairly minimal.

[KPM]

I just had my gallbladder removed 2 weeks ago and I understand pain..I was given morphine in the recovery room...

I found my brother dead on the floor in 2001 and do u want to know how he ended up that way? From hurting himself to get pain meds just like Elvis.. he would lie cheat and steal to get a fix just like Elvis. Frankly this is all crap because none of us here are doctors but Elvis shoulden't have been prescribed the extremely high dosages.. i watched my grandpa die of cancer 2 months before my brother..It is just absurd to believe that he was in so much physical pain HELLO he was an actor for heavens sake...He was in pain alright it's called addiction!!

And FYI the discribtion of the drug that I posted was from the PDR
I don't think we need to get overheated on this subject-we are discussing-not arguing;)
Sorry to hear about your gallbladder surgery-I know my wife spent 6 weeks recovering from it-of course today I understand the surgery is much less invasive-my wifes scar is 10 inches long-her best friend had hers done in 2007 and she only had a 2 inch circular place where they operated.
Now back to the subject of pain killers-my point was the terminal cancer theory was just not correct-some of the MM started that saying "only terminal cancer patients got dilaudid" that just is not correct.
It is not absurd to conceive that someone may be in much more pain than is comprehensible-because we have not experienced such pain.
Now notice...... I did not say Elvis was in such pain......because that would be saying I somehow know his pain from the arthritis of the neck and spine, or that I somehow know exactly how much pain he was in from the congenital ganglionic fold in his colon-neither you or I can have any 100% sure idea of how much pain any one else is in.
Lastly your point about hurting ones self to get meds-that comes from one story that Lamar told on TV and has been mentioned in the books about Elvis working on an ingrown toenail he had and commenting with a laugh to Lamar that "I should get some real good stuff for this huh"
One incident is hardly like Elvis was into heavy self mutilation in order to get drugs. No one has said that once a day he tried to cut a toe, or break a foot to score drugs.
Did Elvis ever fake an illness for some reason-probably, did he also have real medical problems-for sure.
My point is exactly what I have tried to stress over and over-a little understanding and compassion of dependencies and addictions is never out of bounds.
In a recent news story I heard that DNA researchers said they may have found the gene which causes addictions such as alcoholism-if that is the case and it is proven out with further research then most addicts have little real choice in their situations-just as many diseases have a start in the genes of our ancestors. I posted several years ago-a scientific study on alcoholics which tied into this idea-that heredity plays a huge part people with addictive personalities.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/addiction1.shtml
What is it?
Addictive drugs may include cigarettes, recreational drugs such as cannabis, ecstasy, cocaine, heroin and alcohol.

The user feels better physically or psychologically when they get another dose, and they're driven to repeat the experience.

What causes it?
The causes of addiction are complex but there's increasing evidence our genes may play a part.

A number of genes that may predispose us to addiction have been identified. The dopamine D2 receptor gene (DRD2) is more common among those addicted to alcohol or cocaine, for example, and may be linked to sensation-seeking or compulsive behaviour.

A recent study suggests that a gene found close to DRD2 - ankyrin repeat and kinase domain containing 1 (ANKK1) - may also be involved in addictive behaviour.
A gene for the transcription factor DeltaFosB may produce changes in the brain that contribute to addiction, by causing increased sensitivity to the effects of drugs.Some genes for nicotine receptors may make some people more likely to smoke or find it harder to give up smoking.

[KPM]

but wasn't terminal cancer patients what it was used for in the 70's, even if it is now used for other things?
From my experience with cancer in my family (5 individuals over the last 35 years died from cancer the first in 1973)-straight morphine was-is-and will probably always be-the main drug used for terminal cancer patients-my wifes gall bladder surgery in which she was given dilaudid during her recovery......was in 81-just 4 years after Elvis died.

Here is another article on addictions and genetics:
Professor Charles O'Brien from the University of Pennsylvania has pointed out that numerous recent studies illustrate how vulnerability to substance abuse appears to run in families.

"If you are unlucky enough to be born with a gene that predisposes you to addiction, you are likely to have problems if you dabble with drugs," Dr O'Brien explained to the Dominion Post. "Whereas other people might indulge in the same sort of risky impulsive behaviour but not become addicted."

Dr O'Brien's belief that addiction could potentially be a chronic disorder has already revolutionised treatment science, but many scientists and councillors insist that it should still be treated as a moral failing and that it can be cured solely through therapy and willpower.

His hope is that a genetic treatment programme - if successful - could help bring about a shift in public opinion, but he admits developing one will be an uphill struggle.

"Genes are switched on and off by environmental factors," he explained. "Ten years ago we thought there were three or four major genes involved in alcoholism - now we think there are 300-400."


Article published on 15/11/2007 by DryOutNow.com

[dstrattenfan]

I don't think we need to get overheated on this subject-we are discussing-not arguing;)
Sorry to hear about your gallbladder surgery-I know my wife spent 6 weeks recovering from it-of course today I understand the surgery is much less invasive-my wifes scar is 10 inches long-her best friend had hers done in 2007 and she only had a 2 inch circular place where they operated.
Now back to the subject of pain killers-my point was the terminal cancer theory was just not correct-some of the MM started that saying "only terminal cancer patients got dilaudid" that just is not correct.
It is not absurd to conceive that someone may be in much more pain than is comprehensible-because we have not experienced such pain.
Now notice...... I did not say Elvis was in such pain......because that would be saying I somehow know his pain from the arthritis of the neck and spine, or that I somehow know exactly how much pain he was in from the congenital ganglionic fold in his colon-neither you or I can have any 100% sure idea of how much pain any one else is in.
Lastly your point about hurting ones self to get meds-that comes from one story that Lamar told on TV and has been mentioned in the books about Elvis working on an ingrown toenail he had and commenting with a laugh to Lamar that "I should get some real good stuff for this huh"
One incident is hardly like Elvis was into heavy self mutilation in order to get drugs. No one has said that once a day he tried to cut a toe, or break a foot to score drugs.
Did Elvis ever fake an illness for some reason-probably, did he also have real medical problems-for sure.
My point is exactly what I have tried to stress over and over-a little understanding and compassion of dependencies and addictions is never out of bounds.
In a recent news story I heard that DNA researchers said they may have found the gene which causes addictions such as alcoholism-if that is the case and it is proven out with further research then most addicts have little real choice in their situations-just as many diseases have a start in the genes of our ancestors. I posted several years ago-a scientific study on alcoholics which tied into this idea-that heredity plays a huge part people with addictive personalities.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/addiction1.shtml
What is it?
Addictive drugs may include cigarettes, recreational drugs such as cannabis, ecstasy, cocaine, heroin and alcohol.

The user feels better physically or psychologically when they get another dose, and they're driven to repeat the experience.

What causes it?
The causes of addiction are complex but there's increasing evidence our genes may play a part.

A number of genes that may predispose us to addiction have been identified. The dopamine D2 receptor gene (DRD2) is more common among those addicted to alcohol or cocaine, for example, and may be linked to sensation-seeking or compulsive behaviour.

A recent study suggests that a gene found close to DRD2 - ankyrin repeat and kinase domain containing 1 (ANKK1) - may also be involved in addictive behaviour.
A gene for the transcription factor DeltaFosB may produce changes in the brain that contribute to addiction, by causing increased sensitivity to the effects of drugs.Some genes for nicotine receptors may make some people more likely to smoke or find it harder to give up smoking.

AS I SAID NONE OF US ARE DOCTORS.......and I read the PDR and that is what it stated if u have a problem with that than maybe u should contact the editors of the PDR......Gosh what do they know THERE JUST DOCTORS:hmm:

[presley31]

I don't think we need to get overheated on this subject-we are discussing-not arguing;)
Sorry to hear about your gallbladder surgery-I know my wife spent 6 weeks recovering from it-of course today I understand the surgery is much less invasive-my wifes scar is 10 inches long-her best friend had hers done in 2007 and she only had a 2 inch circular place where they operated.
Now back to the subject of pain killers-my point was the terminal cancer theory was just not correct-some of the MM started that saying "only terminal cancer patients got dilaudid" that just is not correct.
It is not absurd to conceive that someone may be in much more pain than is comprehensible-because we have not experienced such pain.
Now notice...... I did not say Elvis was in such pain......because that would be saying I somehow know his pain from the arthritis of the neck and spine, or that I somehow know exactly how much pain he was in from the congenital ganglionic fold in his colon-neither you or I can have any 100% sure idea of how much pain any one else is in.
Lastly your point about hurting ones self to get meds-that comes from one story that Lamar told on TV and has been mentioned in the books about Elvis working on an ingrown toenail he had and commenting with a laugh to Lamar that "I should get some real good stuff for this huh"
One incident is hardly like Elvis was into heavy self mutilation in order to get drugs. No one has said that once a day he tried to cut a toe, or break a foot to score drugs.
Did Elvis ever fake an illness for some reason-probably, did he also have real medical problems-for sure.
My point is exactly what I have tried to stress over and over-a little understanding and compassion of dependencies and addictions is never out of bounds.
In a recent news story I heard that DNA researchers said they may have found the gene which causes addictions such as alcoholism-if that is the case and it is proven out with further research then most addicts have little real choice in their situations-just as many diseases have a start in the genes of our ancestors. I posted several years ago-a scientific study on alcoholics which tied into this idea-that heredity plays a huge part people with addictive personalities.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/addiction1.shtml
What is it?
Addictive drugs may include cigarettes, recreational drugs such as cannabis, ecstasy, cocaine, heroin and alcohol.

The user feels better physically or psychologically when they get another dose, and they're driven to repeat the experience.

What causes it?
The causes of addiction are complex but there's increasing evidence our genes may play a part.

A number of genes that may predispose us to addiction have been identified. The dopamine D2 receptor gene (DRD2) is more common among those addicted to alcohol or cocaine, for example, and may be linked to sensation-seeking or compulsive behaviour.

A recent study suggests that a gene found close to DRD2 - ankyrin repeat and kinase domain containing 1 (ANKK1) - may also be involved in addictive behaviour.
A gene for the transcription factor DeltaFosB may produce changes in the brain that contribute to addiction, by causing increased sensitivity to the effects of drugs.Some genes for nicotine receptors may make some people more likely to smoke or find it harder to give up smoking.

well said KPM. (y)(y)(y)

[KPM]

AS I SAID NONE OF US ARE DOCTORS.......and I read the PDR and that is what it stated if u have a problem with that than maybe u should contact the editors of the PDR......Gosh what do they know THERE JUST DOCTORS:hmm:
No none of us are doctors, but that does not mean we have no knowledge of medicine and its uses, nor of research into problems common to humans.
For personal reasons I have studied on addictions, and dependencies... also pain management problems-so no I never claimed to be a doctor.
You seem to be taking this personal-its not (at least on my part)-we are discussing the problems of Dr. Nick and Elvis-their interactions. Just because I see this in a totally different view than yours and because the information we both got from legit sources differs shows there is not a "consensus" on this subject.

The info I posted on the drug-was from the AMA also specifically these doctors-
Sharon L. Walsha, , , Paul A. Nuzzoa, Michelle R. Lofwallb and Joseph R. Holtman Jr.c

Department of Behavioral Sciences, Center on Drug and Alcohol Research, University of Kentucky, 515 Oldham Court Lexington, KY 40502, USA

[KPM]

well said KPM. (y)(y)(y)
I would also add this article to my posts on pain management and what is the strongest pain drugs:


You can't give someone a bigger blast of painkiller than that from a fentanyl patch. The medication is so powerful and potentially addictive that the Drug Enforcement Agency tracks the prescriptions, which are reserved for people in chronic pain or agony at the end of their lives. Patients must try other medicines, including morphine, before graduating to fentanyl.

"It's one of the strongest, if not the strongest medicine for pain," said Dr. Catherine Skae, director of the pediatric pain service at the Children's Hospital at Montefiore Medical Center in the Bronx.

A manmade opiate, fentanyl patches are mostly used by patients with terminal cancer or chronic conditions like rheumatoid arthritis.

Doctors like the patch because it doesn't need to be swallowed and patients can leave it on for three days and forget about it.

It should never be used in people who haven't taken opiates before, said Dr. John Dombrowski, a board member of the American Society of Anesthesiologists. Too strong a dose can cause a patient to stop breathing. .....

.....The patches, made in a range of doses by several companies, have come under scrutiny by the Food and Drug Administration. It most recently issued a safety warning about them in December. ..........


jlite@nydailynews.com

Notice the reference to rhemotoid arthritis as chronic pain which this drug in patch form is used to treat.

[monk37]

...
Professor Charles O'Brien from the University of Pennsylvania has pointed out that numerous recent studies illustrate how vulnerability to substance abuse appears to run in families....

I will qualify this by saying that I have not sought out articles about addiction in the last couple years.

So my question is - has an actual addition gene been identified?

because that addiction runs in families does not mean that it's genetic - it can very easily be a nurture issue

Like, when I was a kid, all the adults smoked cigarettes so it was something I thought that you did. As a result, for me anyway, I didn't end up smoking because I never started, it was a conscious, well, I'll be a smoker later, so no need to start now.

Most of my cousins smoked.

[KPM]

I will qualify this by saying that I have not sought out articles about addiction in the last couple years.

So my question is - has an actual addition gene been identified?

because that addiction runs in families does not mean that it's genetic - it can very easily be a nurture issue

Like, when I was a kid, all the adults smoked cigarettes so it was something I thought that you did. As a result, for me anyway, I didn't end up smoking because I never started, it was a conscious, well, I'll be a smoker later, so no need to start now.

Most of my cousins smoked.
Like all else in science-progress is slow (they spend more time money and effort on finding new painkillers and anti-depressants than they do on gene research 10-1), they have pretty well decided on likely candidates for what may be addictive gene indicators and I posted some info earlier on them.
If you notice one item mentions how people who's natural family have addiction problems when adopted into other families who have no addictive problems still end up more likely to become addicted to alcohol.
The idea of genes vs. environment is ongoing. But in my opinion.... what does it matter?
No baby born into a bad environment chooses that situation-the patterns of life and learning are formed in the first 5 years of life, so if its environment that has a "cause and latter effect" on someone they did not choose how the first 5 years of their life would happen.
There are exceptions to all rules-some people who have a horrid early childhood, rise above that situation and break free-strong personalities with great internal fortitude, natural intelligence etc.............but something makes that difference in how they react and cope in adulthood.
Some stronger individuals point to mentors or specific situations in their early life which turned them-others never get that mentor or epiphany in their life.
But whether gene/environment early life is not of our choosing....., the situations we are thrust into, the surrounding rich/poor areas, even the foods we eat are chose by the parents or guardians of the young.......and it does have a cause and effect.

I just point out that Elvis was not superhuman-if his environment and early years contributed to his adult life-he had no voice in the choices which shaped his mental and emotional makeup, if its heredity, he had no voice in that either (no human does) but to just sell him short-and say he made the choices is IMO not fair...... until science finally makes the call one way or another.

[Rhinestone]

Thanks for that KPM. Well said.

[monk37]

Great post KPM

I think whether addiction is genetic goes to the question of is it an illness or learned behavior or a result of poor judgement process.

I have alcoholics on both sides of my family, I saw the multi-generational damage that does - but I also grew up in the 70/80's when there was a lot of information available about how bad things like smoking, booze and drugs could be on a body

I don't smoke, and I rarely drank - even before I became diabetic and really can't drink.

I think knowing the why allows us to determine treatment - so yes, it does matter in that sense

we're just not there yet.

[KPM]

I agree-if they can pinpoint "addictive" genes...then those people who have them can be warned from the first blood test they ever have that they in fact have this and its a heads up. Also if they can pinpoint the genes they can perhaps come up with ways to circumvent those genes or to "turn them off" so to speak.
My family has alcoholics, and drug problems on both sides, both my grandfathers were heavy drinkers, the people on my moms side-were likely to be involved in drugs, on my fathers side they were into alcohol and had depression problems.....and 4 suicides since 1900-including my dad. I had a doctor tell me our family probably has a brain hormone disfunction which leads to the depression problems-unfortunately they still don't know enough about what causes depressions to pinpoint a lot of the brain hormone problems with any definite answer to why. Even most depression medications will tell you they do not know what mechanism in the brain which causes the medications to work-which is a little scary.