Elvis Telephone Conversation with Red West 1976

[john carpenter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIXnCvlXSWk

[Tommy]

Thanks(y) but I can't really understand what they are saying.

[Getlo]

Again, it should be obvious from this that had Elvis lived, he and Red would have made up.

Elvis understood why he and Sonny did what they did. He was hurt, yes, but he understood.

What a pity some "fans" can't see that.

[monk37]

I agree Getlo

Elvis was rather upset with Dr Nick and Joe over the raquetball courts

too bad someone wouldn't clean up the audio on this recording - it really gives a strong look into Elvis' mindset at the end

[sasha]

Elvis: So you know, after analyzing the **** thing, ah, I can see it, I can see it clearly. That’s why I’m saying, anything I can do at all, I’ll be more than happy.

Red: Ok, I appreciate it, and ah...

Elvis: You take care of yourself son.

Red: OK, and if, let me say one more thing before you hang up. If everybody is worried about the book, tell them not to. Man, I mean including yourself. Ah, we’re writing the good stuff Elvis, people, the things...
Elvis: Worried about, worried about the book? Well ah, I don’t think so.

Red: OK.

Elvis: Not on, not on my part.

Red: OK. Good. Because I was ah, out, I was broke. I was made an offer to write the book. I said I’ll write the book if I can tell all from day one the good, good days. He said all right, whatever.

Elvis: Well, you do whatever you have to do.

Red: Okey doke.

Elvis: I just want you and Pat to know... I’m still here.

Red: Ok, I appreciate that. And you take care of yourself.

Elvis: OK.

Red: OK.

Elvis: Take it easy.

Red: Bye-bye.

http://jordans-elvis-world.com/audio/red/redphone.htm

[debtdbruno]

I can't really hear what they are saying, particularly Elvis.

My main thought about this, is why did Red tape this if not for unscrupulous purposes...........weird thing to do to your friend

[Diane]

I can't really hear what they are saying, particularly Elvis.

My main thought about this, is why did Red tape this if not for unscrupulous purposes...........weird thing to do to your friend

I always thought Red was the only one involved in the EWH fiasco that felt genuine regret for the book and really did care for Elvis but this taping of the phone conversation has always bothered me too.....why did he do it??

Diane

[rogerM]

Again, it should be obvious from this that had Elvis lived, he and Red would have made up.

Elvis understood why he and Sonny did what they did. He was hurt, yes, but he understood.

What a pity some "fans" can't see that.

I agree. I think the West boys are in fact the good guys. They had the nerve to say the truth to Elvis, they really tried to help him - I THINK..
"How can you save a person from himself?" That`s not easy..., I have tried that too to a friend of mine
But that`s mine opinium

[monk37]

Sonny regretted it too - it's detailed in his recent Still Taking Care of Business book

I think Red recorded the conversation because he wasn't sure what Elvis was going to say - so if Elvis threatened or said anything, he'd have proof.

Excerpts of the conversation were in the later editions of the EWH - since the first run came out before Elvis died.

[KPM]

Again, it should be obvious from this that had Elvis lived, he and Red would have made up.

Elvis understood why he and Sonny did what they did. He was hurt, yes, but he understood.

What a pity some "fans" can't see that.
I think you are right-if you read the transcript of the whole conversation-both are truely concerned for the others situations, worried about the other.Both hurt sure ....but I thiink Red understood Elvis..... Elvis understood Red.

[sasha]

IMO, I think the whole thing has been misinpreted by others.I do think Elvis would have re-hired Red & Sonny.
On the other hand, this taped conversation has been used to CTA after Elvis died. I can see both things .

[tcbtigerman]

Where can we get a transcript?

[monk37]

has been posted here

http://www.tcb-world.com/archive/index.php/t-3806.html

[Tony Trout]

My main thought about this, is why did Red tape this if not for unscrupulous purposes...........weird thing to do to your friend


I always thought Red was the only one involved in the EWH fiasco that felt genuine regret for the book and really did care for Elvis but this taping of the phone conversation has always bothered me too.....why did he do it??

Diane


Sonny regretted it too - it's detailed in his recent Still Taking Care of Business book

I think Red recorded the conversation because he wasn't sure what Elvis was going to say - so if Elvis threatened or said anything, he'd have proof.





Bingo. Red Recorded the conversation in case Elvis tried to file any kind of lawsuit against them and Sonny and Red do both regret qriting the book and they have expressed remorse for it. Red, in fact, won't even discuss the book. It makes him angry when someone brings it up.

[Elizasong]

If he did tell Elvis he was only writing about "good days" he lied to him because he wrote about the "bad days" too. I'm sure both Red and Sonny have some regret over the book but I feel there was revenge involved when they wrote the book.

It was a nice attempt of this person to play this conversation for us.

[Junebug]

Sonny regretted it too - it's detailed in his recent Still Taking Care of Business book

I think Red recorded the conversation because he wasn't sure what Elvis was going to say - so if Elvis threatened or said anything, he'd have proof.
Excerpts of the conversation were in the later editions of the EWH - since the first run came out before Elvis died.


Bingo. Red Recorded the conversation in case Elvis tried to file any kind of lawsuit against them and Sonny and Red do both regret qriting the book and they have expressed remorse for it. Red, in fact, won't even discuss the book. It makes him angry when someone brings it up.


If he did tell Elvis he was only writing about "good days" he lied to him because he wrote about the "bad days" too. I'm sure both Red and Sonny have some regret over the book but I feel there was revenge involved when they wrote the book.

It was a nice attempt of this person to play this conversation for us.


BINGO is absolutely right!!!

With the good and positive being written about, what was the reason Red West was so concerned about a lawsuit???

What reason would there be for threats and the need to prove or substantiate anything???



********
http://www.tcb-files.com/articles/541dd489d96d5c.jpg"]This is red west, you are about to hear a telephone conversation between Elvis presley and myself that I recorded sometime in october 1976 while I was in los angeles writing the book ?Elvis what happened?, along with my cousin sonny west and dave hebler.

It was no secret that we were writing the book and knowing Elvis as I did I knew he would try to contact us. I also knew we would be called liars, judas?, traders and any other expletives by fans and even some people around him who we had been close to up until this time. I KNEW that he would reveal in this conversation enough information that would substantiate what WE said in the book.

It was even more than I HAD EXPECTED. And more than I wanted to hear. By this I mean I heard a sad and lonely man. A man I had grown up with and watched rise from near poverty to become the greatest entertainer this world we?ll ever see. A boy in a mans body who could not handle the celebrity that he had now become. I had a sinking feeling that I would never see my best friend again and I didn?t"

********

Sorry.....I don't buy it.


Red West knew exactly what he was doing - calculated and intentional.



:king:

[rickb]

I can understand Red being concerned.
I do think elvis comes across very well in this conversation

[TTWII2001]

can someone explain exactly what was exactly the racquet ball affair....and what was smoky Joe espo..role in this...?

thanks guys

[lvs2day]

many people have recorded their conversations with ELVIS from police officers to a fan [maria columbus] , and red west, why who knows, i think he recorded the conversation because he wanted to maybe cath E.P.'s reaction to having published a book that he knew full well would get under ELVIS skin, ithink it is obvious that ELVIS is medicated durring the call and probably just done it on a whim , although this is not the complete phone conversation it has bin edited, but again i'm not surprised that red would do this and it proves by his words that he needed money which is the goal of all/most rags concerning these so called friends, just my opion.

[lvs2day]

can someone explain exactly what was exactly the racquet ball affair....and what was smoky Joe espo..role in this...?

thanks guys

it seems joe and dr nick wanted to start a chain of raquetball courts and they needed money to start it so they went to ELVIS[surprise] and asked him to get involved and they would use his surname[PRESLEY COURTS] when they opened the buisness , needless to say the buisness never took off and ELVIS was sued by contractors who had started work and were only paid half of their bidding fee, some who became members and paid a fee also sued PRESLEY COURTS- ELVIS , it was a disasterthat both vernon and ELVIS himself was really said to be upset over, what amazes me is that both thsese guys still had their jobs and were around him durring his last days. This is what i've read and found out over the years of i'm missinformed somebody please correct me by all means , i do hope this helps your question.

[KPM]

The raquetball affair was something that just added to Elvis' problems-but that said-I think Elvis seemed to think this was not a personal problem with Joe or Dr, Nick-it was a business problem so they still had their jobs.

[Brian]

The raquetball affair was something that just added to Elvis' problems-but that said-I think Elvis seemed to think this was not a personal problem with Joe or Dr, Nick-it was a business problem so they still had their jobs.

I think that was one of the reasons he was planning on firing Joe after the August/September 1977 tour
As for Dr.Nick I think Elvis kept him around so he would continue supplying pills.

[lvs2day]

The raquetball affair was something that just added to Elvis' problems-but that said-I think Elvis seemed to think this was not a personal problem with Joe or Dr, Nick-it was a business problem so they still had their jobs.

billy smith still claims that ELVIS was upset over the raquetball court deal and was definetly going to fire joe, it is also dealt with in the book ELVIS day by day.

[KPM]

billy smith still claims that ELVIS was upset over the raquetball court deal and was definetly going to fire joe, it is also dealt with in the book ELVIS day by day.
Elvis signed the agreement between himself and Mike McMahon, Joe and Dr. Nick on Feb.13th, 1976 and Elvis thinks he will receive 25% of the company by just lending his name to it...........the heart of the problem with this deal.

In Elvis Day by Day, on page 372-May 2nd 1977 it states that a lawsuit has been filed by Mike McMahon because of Elvis failing to follow thru with previous commitments which included loaning the corporation money".....it says that Joe Esposito and Dr. Nick appear to be plaintiffs in the original filing-but very quickly they have their names removed from the suit-which is resolved just 2 months later with a loan by Elvis of a little less than $50,000. From a legal point of view-if Elvis's lawyer told him to "loan" the $50,000 it was because the original agreement did have something in it about Elvis loaning money for the corporation otherwise the lawyer would have fought the suit-and pointed to the original agreement Elvis signed and said "Show me where it says this!" Since the lawyer did not go this route-its a safe bet it was in the agreement in some form.
So it seems the problem was settled in July of 1977 according to this book and if Elvis was mad at Joe and Dr. Nick and wanted to fire Joe-Joe was still in charge and working for Elvis on August 16.
Elvis could get mad quickly and say he was going to fire everyone over something-and 30 minutes later he had forgot he said it, many of the people around Elvis have said this over and over.

[KPM]

I think that was one of the reasons he was planning on firing Joe after the August/September 1977 tourAs for Dr.Nick I think Elvis kept him around so he would continue supplying pills.

Well he may have told Billy he was going to fire Joe-but thats a far cry from actually doing it. I have pointed out that on August 16th Joe was the man still on the job, preparing for the tour with the duties Elvis still had left in his hands.
So if you go by exactly the situation at Elvis's death-Joe was still on the job.]
Vernon would have known of any plans to fire Joe-since Vernon did the firings for Elvis.
Vernon left many details in Joes hands to handle for the funeral after Elvis died and Joe did as asked-that must count for something?

[Brian]

Well he may have told Billy he was going to fire Joe-but thats a far cry from actually doing it. I have pointed out that on August 16th Joe was the man still on the job, preparing for the tour with the duties Elvis still had left in his hands.
So if you go by exactly the situation at Elvis's death-Joe was still on the job.

The key word is ''after'' the tour.

[KPM]

The key word is ''after'' the tour.
No my friend-the key word IMO is it never happened.
We can not say-no matter how much we trust what others have said-that it would have 100% fact happened as you or I or even Billy think it would.
Billy may have heard Elvis say he was going to fire Joe-but that does not mean it would have happened-that is my point.
In other words it is not a 100% certainty-it did not happen.
If Elvis had lived past the September 77 Tour and he fired Joe-that is a 100% certainty-it would have happened.
Anytihing beyone that fact is just specualtion-even on Billy Smtihs part.
Just curious in which book did Billy mention this-Rev.of the MM?

[Junebug]

I think that was one of the reasons he was planning on firing Joe after the August/September 1977 tour
As for Dr.Nick I think Elvis kept him around so he would continue supplying pills.

Aug. 10, 1976 -

Elvis was upset about the racquetball courts and because of this spoke of firing Joe in August of 1976 - not "after" any tour in 1977!

As for Dr. Nick, Elvis calls him a few days later from Palm Springs to let him know he is taking another doctor on the next tour.

Obviously, Elvis didn't keep him around to supply pills as suggested.


Aug. 27, 1976 -

That next tour begins on Fri., Aug. 27, 1976 and Dr. Ghanem has replaced Dr. Nick.


Aug. 28, 1976 -

By the end of the second night of the tour, Sat., Aug., 28, 1976, Parker is panicked by the media reports on E's performances.

Parker is the one who calls Dr. Nick to return to the tour. Nick returns the next day.

Sept. 8, 1976 -

This tour is finished with profits of nearly 1 million dollars.


:king:

[Brian]

Aug. 10, 1976 -

Elvis was upset about the racquetball courts and because of this spoke of firing Joe in August of 1976 - not "after" any tour in 1977!

As for Dr. Nick, Elvis calls him a few days later from Palm Springs to let him know he is taking another doctor on the next tour.

Obviously, Elvis didn't keep him around to supply pills as suggested.


Aug. 27, 1976 -

That next tour begins on Fri., Aug. 27, 1976 and Dr. Ghanem has replaced Dr. Nick.


Aug. 28, 1976 -

By the end of the second night of the tour, Sat., Aug., 28, 1976, Parker is panicked by the media reports on E's performances.

Parker is the one who calls Dr. Nick to return to the tour. Nick returns the next day.

Sept. 8, 1976 -

This tour is finished with profits of nearly 1 million dollars.


:king:



Did you ever think that Elvis decided he finally had enough of Joe Esposito's shenanigans and not just the Racquetball thing and that he was going to fire him

Obviously Dr.Nick was still around Elvis until the end giving him pills.

good grief Junebug.

[KPM]

Did you ever think that Elvis decided he finally had enough of Joe Esposito's shenanigans and not just the Racquetball thing and that he was going to fire him

Obviously Dr.Nick was still around Elvis until the end giving him pills.

good grief Junebug.
Once again Brian that would be your supposition to what Elvis "may have thought or may have been planning"-you and I usually disagree mainly on whether something is 100% fact. Elvis's thinking on Joe at the time of his death is open to speculation I agree-but we have no idea the status of any firing plans.....even if he mentioned them to Billy somewhere along the way.

[Junebug]

Did you ever think that Elvis decided he finally had enough of Joe Esposito's shenanigans and not just the Racquetball thing and that he was going to fire him

Obviously Dr.Nick was still around Elvis until the end giving him pills.

good grief Junebug.


Play your twisty game with someone else, Thank you.


:king:

[Brian]

Once again Brian that would be your supposition to what Elvis "may have thought or may have been planning"-you and I usually disagree mainly on whether something is 100% fact. Elvis's thinking on Joe at the time of his death is open to speculation I agree-but we have no idea the status of any firing plans.....even if he mentioned them to Billy somewhere along the way.

I was saying it was a possibility that Elvis was going to fire Joe Esposito over several things including the fallout over the Racquetball courts.
Besides Elvis had Red West, Dave Hebler and Sonny West fired and it seems he and the Memphis mafia were drifting apart and going their separate ways.

[KPM]

I was saying it was a possibility that Elvis was going to fire Joe Esposito over several things including the fallout over the Racquetball courts.
Besides Elvis had Red West, Dave Hebler and Sonny West fired and it seems he and the Memphis mafia were drifting apart and going their separate ways.


Yes it is a possiblilty-and also that he had been blowing off steam and said something he had no intention of doing, but as I said Joe was still there TCBing at the end. He was still helping Vernon after Elvis died.

[Tony Trout]

I think the one thing that's getting lost in all of this is that Sonny and Red and Dave have said that what they said originally never appeared as it should have in the book because they dd want to write about the good things but that ******* Steve Dunleavey took the book and 'sensationalized' it and basically, IMO, put what he wanted people to read about (the drugs, the morgue visits, the girls, etc.).

[sasha]

The Press Conference


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkWds8YuCAU&feature=player_embedded

[lvs2day]

Elvis signed the agreement between himself and Mike McMahon, Joe and Dr. Nick on Feb.13th, 1976 and Elvis thinks he will receive 25% of the company by just lending his name to it...........the heart of the problem with this deal.

In Elvis Day by Day, on page 372-May 2nd 1977 it states that a lawsuit has been filed by Mike McMahon because of Elvis failing to follow thru with previous commitments which included loaning the corporation money".....it says that Joe Esposito and Dr. Nick appear to be plaintiffs in the original filing-but very quickly they have their names removed from the suit-which is resolved just 2 months later with a loan by Elvis of a little less than $50,000. From a legal point of view-if Elvis's lawyer told him to "loan" the $50,000 it was because the original agreement did have something in it about Elvis loaning money for the corporation otherwise the lawyer would have fought the suit-and pointed to the original agreement Elvis signed and said "Show me where it says this!" Since the lawyer did not go this route-its a safe bet it was in the agreement in some form.
So it seems the problem was settled in July of 1977 according to this book and if Elvis was mad at Joe and Dr. Nick and wanted to fire Joe-Joe was still in charge and working for Elvis on August 16.
Elvis could get mad quickly and say he was going to fire everyone over something-and 30 minutes later he had forgot he said it, many of the people around Elvis have said this over and over.

i really do believe that he was going to make changes regarding his employees , and i do believe billys staement that joe was on the outs , and as he pointed out that ELVIS was incensed and forced into that deal by joe , even ginger has said that E.P. was considering getting rid of some of his employees , if he did it to the wests he could do it to anybody and i think they all knew at that stgae that he was now turning over a new leaf and going to make some changes as sandi miller also has said [ELVIS told her also that he was going to make some changes], as far as it has bin noted JD SUMMNER had alot to do with ELVIS funeral arangements [the planning of the coffin, white limos, music etc..] Also lets not forget that joe was fired once in the arly sixties and it took 3 months and marty lacker to have him comeback in the circle[so ELVIS could keep a grudge], and as sonny put it in his latest book[still taking care of buisness ] Joe was known to throw his weight around, and is a real ***.... just ask the fans who were there and tried to take pictures of ELVIS offstage or in vegas , many including myself wanted him gone , and yes i do believe what billy had said because ELVIS only wanted those who had buisness to be up at the house[him and joe hadn't bin close in years], his last 2 years were spent with billy especially the last year of his life that is for sure., joe was nothing more than the eyes and ears for colonel parker.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

To get back to the original topic, The book Elvis What Happened was the first book to give a glimpse behind the Elvis Presley lifestyle, there is nothing in the book that can be disproved! Red & Sonny may wish that they hadn't contributed but in bitterness they did. Albert Goldman did a bigger hatchet job than the West's. Tell all books are never nice and the betrayal behind it very hard to forgive, however the West's seem like genuine guys who have paid the price for their transgression and should be forgiven.

As for the taped conversation it is common knowledge that Elvis had discussed hiring hit men and investigators in the past and I'm sure that Red knew what Elvis was capable of given the right motivation, so Red was just covering the bases.

The way the West's were treated in their firing leaves a bad taste in your mouth even if you agree with why they were fired! Sonny and Red had worked for Elvis for decades, they may have been paid and looked after but they were treated indifferently by Elvis and I'm sure they felt hurt. I'm sure Vernon had some say in the matter but the guys deserved to have had a one-2-one with Elvis to clarify the reasons for their dismissal.

All in all the whole situation was handled badly on both sides and neither of the parties look good under scrutiny. It seems people are prepared to overlook Elvis' indiscretions but not those around him, all involved were not infallible.

[TotallyInsane]

The Press Conference


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkWds8YuCAU&feature=player_embedded

Money and bitterness is why they wrote the book! They sold their friendship, trust and loyalty.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

They sold their friendship, trust and loyalty.

I suppose that is one way to look at it..

Other considerations would be the fact that Elvis was supposed to be their friend, and they felt Elvis sold their friendship and trust too. If Elvis was all the things that people say he was, then this situation wouldn't have arisen.

The argument for the guys being let go was because of the law suits, I'm sure that had Elvis dealt with them on a one-2-one basis and the guys given a proper severance pay befitting an employee of long standing the book incident could have been avoided! Instead they were let go by Vernon.

If these guys were just employees you could understand Vernon doing the dirty deed on his own, but these guys were friends. Elvis was Sonny's best man, hardly the action of just an employer?

44056

If you employ friends you have to foresee that it is more difficult to discipline them, but you also have to understand that emotional loyalty is stronger, Sonny would have died for Elvis, to just accuse him of selling out is doing him a disservice.

[debtdbruno]

I agree, Elvis should have talked to them himself. He owed them that much..........but he didn't like confrontations!!!!!!

[Diane]

I agree, Elvis should have talked to them himself. He owed them that much..........but he didn't like confrontations!!!!!!

I agree, Elvis should have talked to them himself because of the long friendship with the Wests but both parties were at fault in the end.

Diane

[KPM]

i really do believe that he was going to make changes regarding his employees , and i do believe billys staement that joe was on the outs , and as he pointed out that ELVIS was incensed and forced into that deal by joe , even ginger has said that E.P. was considering getting rid of some of his employees , if he did it to the wests he could do it to anybody and i think they all knew at that stgae that he was now turning over a new leaf and going to make some changes as sandi miller also has said [ELVIS told her also that he was going to make some changes], as far as it has bin noted JD SUMMNER had alot to do with ELVIS funeral arangements [the planning of the coffin, white limos, music etc..] Also lets not forget that joe was fired once in the arly sixties and it took 3 months and marty lacker to have him comeback in the circle[so ELVIS could keep a grudge], and as sonny put it in his latest book[still taking care of buisness ] Joe was known to throw his weight around, and is a real ***.... just ask the fans who were there and tried to take pictures of ELVIS offstage or in vegas , many including myself wanted him gone , and yes i do believe what billy had said because ELVIS only wanted those who had buisness to be up at the house[him and joe hadn't bin close in years], his last 2 years were spent with billy especially the last year of his life that is for sure., joe was nothing more than the eyes and ears for colonel parker.
Let me make this as clear as possible-I am not saying that Joe could have been fired-I am saying that even if Elvis said it to Billy, that does not make it a certainty. WOuld you not say this is a fair statement?
As was pointed out earlier the comment about firing Joe to Billy was said to have happened in August of 76 In Elvis Day by Day-one full year later and after the suit with McMahon was settled -Joe was still working for Elvis in AUgust 77 which seems to point out Elvis had cooled somewhat on the idea.
Thats my only point-sure Elvis may have fired Joe, or anyone else for that matter-but one year later he still had not done so.

Yes I know Joe was fired once in the sixties-but Lamar said to Larry King once that all the MM had been fired at one time or another some much more than one single time (as Joe was) It never lasted very long-and sometimes they were hired back the same day-but he fired them all over and over.
Something that was pointed out here long ago in another thread-just because Joe may not have been well liked with the rest or if Sonny was not well liked by the rest, or Lamar was not well liked by the rest etc......Elvis must have liked them all.
I think when they still point at each other and complain or continue to vie for who was closest, who was Elvis's most trusted friend/employee ..................33 years after he died-it shows what may have going on even worse when he was alive.IMO
I don't know maybe I look at it much differently than most do-but this is my honest feelings.

[Junebug]

I agree, Elvis should have talked to them himself. He owed them that much..........but he didn't like confrontations!!!!!!

Maybe Elvis was remembering the last 'talk' he had with Sonny West earlier that month.....

The 'talk' in early July 1976 where SWest was p$ssed because VERNON had canceled plane tickets for SW's family.

The word used to describe this 'talk' is "blowup".


:king:

[KPM]

I suppose that is one way to look at it..

Other considerations would be the fact that Elvis was supposed to be their friend, and they felt Elvis sold their friendship and trust too. If Elvis was all the things that people say he was, then this situation wouldn't have arisen.

The argument for the guys being let go was because of the law suits, I'm sure that had Elvis dealt with them on a one-2-one basis and the guys given a proper severance pay befitting an employee of long standing the book incident could have been avoided! Instead they were let go by Vernon.

If these guys were just employees you could understand Vernon doing the dirty deed on his own, but these guys were friends. Elvis was Sonny's best man, hardly the action of just an employer?

44056

If you employ friends you have to foresee that it is more difficult to discipline them, but you also have to understand that emotional loyalty is stronger, Sonny would have died for Elvis, to just accuse him of selling out is doing him a disservice.
I think you are correct in that Elvis should have been the one to talk to Red and Sonny-but was not doing so anything out of character for Elvis?
I mean Elvis may have fired them several times in the heat of the moment or disagreement-but when he cooled down it was over. I think since these firings were different from heat of the moment situations, Vernon was the one who handled it as he had other layoffs or firings in the past such as Richard Davis.
Red and Sonny both say Elvis hated confrontations-(other than losing his temper on the spur of the moment)
Vernon knew that Elvis could often make a decision such as this-then soften and not go thru with it. Long before this situation Elvis put Vernon in charge of doing these things-because Vernon had no qualms about doing them-and Elvis did, he hated to do things like this.
Did anyone really expect Elvis would handle a non-spur of the moment problem like this any different?
That having been said-I think this points to why IMO you should not mix good friends into employee/employer relationships-it almost never works.
This goes back to Elvis and his insecurities-he needed people around he felt comfortable with-they do not always make the best employees and almost always as time goes by the conflicts of employee/friends get worse-someone feels put upon, someone feels taken advantage of-both sides end up saying "How can a friend treat me like this"
I will add that both sides end up IMO taking advantage of each other-perhaps without even feeling they are-but it still happens.
Its eggs in a bowl and once you start whipping them up-you can not stop the scrambling.

[sasha]

I don't hate anyone. Nor do I think Elvis should be "held harmless" in any relationships he had.
If one takes the time to look ; some things are on video and/or audio tape. Not a book someone decides to write.
More so today than in the '70's.




Money and bitterness is why they wrote the book! They sold their friendship, trust and loyalty.

I agree with you here. Friendship should be something precious. Not to be bought & sold.

Also agree with KPM. In that the jealousy is rampant; even today.

Everyone has an opinion; especially where Elvis is concerned it seems.
I doubt we can ever know the truth of what occured in his life as too many try to say, "Not me, I was his best friend." I guess everyone has an opinion of what "best friend" means to them too. It means more to me than being right all the time. Knowing what's best for another person, etc.
Relationships are funny things as we can't have any idea what another person's life experiences has been like. What makes them the way they are & how they react to life.

I'm not "looking through rose colored glasses" as some like to say. I'm only telling you what I'd do for a friend & what I'd expect from them. There's always two sides to every story & IMO, we don't know it all & never will.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

"If Elvis was all the things that people say he was, then this situation wouldn't have arisen."

What an amazingly cheap-shot!!! (n) (n) (n)

It takes two to tango.


I'm sure that had Elvis dealt...................the book incident could have been avoided!

Relationships are a two-way street.

I'm sure that had West, West, & Hebler dealt with being let go in a more mature manner the book incident could have been avoided.

these guys were friends. Elvis was Sonny's best man, hardly the action of just an employer?

Exactly.

Sonny chose Elvis to be his best man, hardly the action of just an employee?



:king:







Please avoid using large red capitols to answer me back, I haven't used them to respond to you, using large capitols are considered shouting and are against the forum rules. Thank you.

[Junebug]

Please avoid using large red capitols to answer me back, I haven't used them to respond to you, using large capitols are considered shouting and are against the forum rules. Thank you.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

I will re-read the forum rules to find the limits on 'font size, color, & boldness'.

My intent was not to 'shout' but to 'bring attention' to the comments posted.

The 'red text' was supposed to be the same size throughout the post and the 'red' color was an arbitrary choice.

My apologies for the offense.


:king:

[lvs2day]

Maybe Elvis was remembering the last 'talk' he had with Sonny West earlier that month.....

The 'talk' in early July 1976 where SWest was p$ssed because VERNON had canceled plane tickets for SW's family.

The word used to describe this 'talk' is "blowup".


:king: here is a perfect example of how ELVIS was being taken advantage of , these guys jsut got so comfortable with ELVIS flipping the bill for everything and getting all these great perks over the years that they lost sight of why they were employed and that they certainlywere not expendable and i believe ELVIS and vernon showed them and others this.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Punishing the family of Sonny, who haven't done Elvis any harm is childish!

Other than 'Elvis What happened please' document where Sonny has bad mouthed Elvis.........

Sonny has done nothing but be positive about Elvis ever since.

[sasha]

Punishing the family of Sonny, who haven't done Elvis any harm is childish!

Other than 'Elvis What happened please' document where Sonny has bad mouthed Elvis.........

Sonny has done nothing but be positive about Elvis ever since.
Who's punishing Sonny's family? Can we document that?

Sonny will have to live with himself. No one else can do any more than he does to himself, IMO.

[May]

Sonny has done nothing but be positive about Elvis ever since.

Playing devils advocate here, if Sonny had carried on being negative, none of the fans would have bought his books or gone to see him talk. Therefore he wouldn't have made so much (or any?) money. :hmm:

[Diane]

Playing devils advocate here, if Sonny had carried on being negative, none of the fans would have bought his books or gone to see him talk. Therefore he wouldn't have made so much (or any?) money. :hmm:

(y)(y)(y)

Diane

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Who's punishing Sonny's family? Can we document that?

Sonny will have to live with himself. No one else can do any more than he does to himself, IMO.

Yes we can, please see here where Junebug made the comment earlier in the post.


Maybe Elvis was remembering the last 'talk' he had with Sonny West earlier that month.....

The 'talk' in early July 1976 where SWest was p$ssed because VERNON had canceled plane tickets for SW's family.

The word used to describe this 'talk' is "blowup".


:king:



Playing devils advocate here, if Sonny had carried on being negative, none of the fans would have bought his books or gone to see him talk. Therefore he wouldn't have made so much (or any?) money. :hmm:

Sonny has been nothing but honourable about Elvis since EWH and I see no reason for him to be otherwise, yes he was mad at Elvis for how their friendship ended and that is the measure of the man, he got over it and moved on. Sonny has had a career outside of the Elvis world and doesn't rely on Elvis for an Income. Sonny could have written another book a lot sooner than he did if he wanted to profit from Elvis but waited close to 30 years to put the record straight.

IMO there are to many people who are not objective and are willing to smear everybody around Elvis without ever casting any shadow on Elvis himself.

If Sonny had murdered Elvis he would have been in Jail for 11 years and probably got out sooner with good remission, However it seems Sonny has to be punished for 30 plus years for writing a dodgy book which he says he regrets.

Talk about forgiveness (n)

[rogerM]

If Sonny had murdered Elvis he would have been in Jail for 11 years and probably got out sooner with good remission, However it seems Sonny has to be punished for 30 plus years for writing a dodgy book which he says he regrets.

Talk about forgiveness (n)

WELL SAID!!(y)(y)

[scarlet_nell]

I am still finding out new things about Elvis. This is the first time I have heard about this. Here is my take on it. Elvis was a very private person. He didn't want the whole world to know what he does in his private life. I don't think any of these things should have been said. It seems that his friends were writing that stuff about him because they were fired. It seems like they did it out of revenge and for the money. I read in an interview that Red was broke and needed the money and even told Elvis himself that. I think Red thought that if fans read what Elvis had done, that it would ruin his career. He must have have felt too bad about writing the book because he published the book even after Elvis died. To me, they sold their friendship for money because they were angry at being fired. I think Elvis would have hired them back. I guess we will never know now. I'm sorry but that is not something a friend does. I don't think the public needed to know those things. That's why I have not read the book and I don't want to.

[sasha]

Sorry,JJ.
I didn't see where anyone was bothering Sonny's family. However, what about Elvis' family?
Did anyone ever think of them before writing EWH ?

All I've ever seen said was; "we were hurt, mad,broke & we did it for his own good."
Maybe it would help to ask the Presley's & the West's families which were hurt worse?

[Diane]

Some people think that because Elvis was a public figure that everyone needed to know everything about him....I disagree, I believe that any human being has the right to privacy regardless of who he/she is.

Diane

[presley31]

Sorry,JJ.
I didn't see where anyone was bothering Sonny's family. However, what about Elvis' family?
Did anyone ever think of them before writing EWH ?

All I've ever seen said was; "we were hurt, mad,broke & we did it for his own good."
Maybe it would help to ask the Presley's & the West's families which were hurt worse?

agreed Sasha(y)(y)(y)(y)

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I have now been able to locate and re-read the TCB-World Forum Rules.

Based on the information found, my response post was not in violation of any rule concerning 'large capitals' as suggested.

There is no rule against the use of 'capitals' - large or red.

'Capitals' are not addressed in the TCB-World Forum Rules.


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I will leave the post amendments as they are.

Thank you.


:king:

Here is your personal copy of the code of conduct which was on the old site, and will be added here shortly, please see the highlighted portion appertaining to your previous post.

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[Tommy]

Please get back on topic..... "Elvis Telephone Conversation with Red West 1976"

[May]

Yes we can, please see here where Junebug made the comment earlier in the post.






Sonny has been nothing but honourable about Elvis since EWH and I see no reason for him to be otherwise, yes he was mad at Elvis for how their friendship ended and that is the measure of the man, he got over it and moved on. Sonny has had a career outside of the Elvis world and doesn't rely on Elvis for an Income. Sonny could have written another book a lot sooner than he did if he wanted to profit from Elvis but waited close to 30 years to put the record straight.

IMO there are to many people who are not objective and are willing to smear everybody around Elvis without ever casting any shadow on Elvis himself.

)

What career has Sonny had since? Did he continue to be a bodyguard?
As far as the bit about people willing to smear everyone around Elvis and not Elvis himself, I am not one of those people. If I had been in Sonny's shoes I too would have been mad to be 'let go' like that.
I would have been more annoyed that it was Vernon who did it also.
It's down to the same discussion of Elvis being perfect. He wasn't. Nor were the people around him. No one is. But I understand the fans who stick up for him and maybe go 'against' members of the MM as Elvis is the one person who isn't around to give his side. He probably would have been the first to admit his faults. I don't know. I do understand some fans complete loyalty though.

[May]

This is in response to your post Diane - for some reason it hasn't included it here.
-------

This is an interesting one. I don't think because Elvis was a public figure the public should know all his ins and outs. On the other hand, as a fan, I do like to know all the ins and outs!:blush:

There aren't many "celebs" I like to know all details on. In fact, the ones I am usually interested aren't even here anymore. Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, all the old film stars. I guess though there are some people who want to know all details so they can put these people down. I just like to be nosey!(y)

[debtdbruno]

This is in response to your post Diane - for some reason it hasn't included it here.
-------

This is an interesting one. I don't think because Elvis was a public figure the public should know all his ins and outs. On the other hand, as a fan, I do like to know all the ins and outs!:blush:

There aren't many "celebs" I like to know all details on. In fact, the ones I am usually interested aren't even here anymore. Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, all the old film stars. I guess though there are some people who want to know all details so they can put these people down. I just like to be nosey!(y)

some posts have been taken off May

Regarding your post above, I know exactly what you mean.........:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::notworthy:notwo rthy:notworthy

[TotallyInsane]

OK. Let's think about it this way. You all know that Rosanne was my very best friend. Rosanne was loved by everyone on here except one. How would you guys feel if I got on here and started telling you every little thing about her personal life? If I was on here dogging her for things she did, things she said, stretching the truth to make it just a little bit juicier....I have a feeling most of you wouldn't really care for me after that. Some of you will say well that's different, this is Elvis we're talking about....how is that different? Trashing your best friend and telling everything about their private life is just wrong - no matter who you are and there are no exceptions.

[Diane]

This is in response to your post Diane - for some reason it hasn't included it here.
-------

This is an interesting one. I don't think because Elvis was a public figure the public should know all his ins and outs. On the other hand, as a fan, I do like to know all the ins and outs!:blush:

There aren't many "celebs" I like to know all details on. In fact, the ones I am usually interested aren't even here anymore. Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, all the old film stars. I guess though there are some people who want to know all details so they can put these people down. I just like to be nosey!(y)

Sure, I'll admit to a healthy curiousity about people but doesn't it get to your stomach when you hear something you'd rather not have?.....and to have to hear it over and over again?

Diane

[Diane]

OK. Let's think about it this way. You all know that Rosanne was my very best friend. Rosanne was loved by everyone on here except one. How would you guys feel if I got on here and started telling you every little thing about her personal life? If I was on here dogging her for things she did, things she said, stretching the truth to make it just a little bit juicier....I have a feeling most of you wouldn't really care for me after that. Some of you will say well that's different, this is Elvis we're talking about....how is that different? Trashing your best friend and telling everything about their private life is just wrong - no matter who you are and there are no exceptions.

Great way to explain some of us feelings about EWH....thanks Gail!

Diane

[sasha]

OK. Let's think about it this way. You all know that Rosanne was my very best friend. Rosanne was loved by everyone on here except one. How would you guys feel if I got on here and started telling you every little thing about her personal life? If I was on here dogging her for things she did, things she said, stretching the truth to make it just a little bit juicier....I have a feeling most of you wouldn't really care for me after that. Some of you will say well that's different, this is Elvis we're talking about....how is that different? Trashing your best friend and telling everything about their private life is just wrong - no matter who you are and there are no exceptions.

Best way to compare this so maybe all can understand. Thanks !! (y) (y)

[May]

OK. Let's think about it this way. You all know that Rosanne was my very best friend. Rosanne was loved by everyone on here except one. How would you guys feel if I got on here and started telling you every little thing about her personal life? If I was on here dogging her for things she did, things she said, stretching the truth to make it just a little bit juicier....I have a feeling most of you wouldn't really care for me after that. Some of you will say well that's different, this is Elvis we're talking about....how is that different? Trashing your best friend and telling everything about their private life is just wrong - no matter who you are and there are no exceptions.

Yes, that's an interesting way of looking at it. Although you and Roseanne were best friends. You hadn't "split up" as it were. (Can't think of a better way to put it).:blush:
It all depends on what kind of person you are. My best friend (and bridesmaid) of 15 years ruined (or tried very hard to) my wedding day. It turns out (in short) that because her marriage had split up a year or so beforehand, she was jealous. Not of my husband, or me come to that, but just that 'someone else' was getting married. Don't ask me all the psychology behind it. :doh:

Anyway, that was it in a nutshell, we are no longer friends but we do pass the time of day if we see each other. It was a great shame because we were really close at one point. I have since found out lots of not-so-nice things she has said and done about me and a few other people I know. I get quite cross and will rant on to my husband or mum about her. but however much I think of my wedding day and events since, I would never say anything about her that would embarrass her or repeat things she has told me in confidence. That would just make me feel bad, and after all of it I certainly don't want to be doing that! ;)

Horses for courses. It all depends on the kind of person you are as to what you do and how you react.

[TotallyInsane]

May,
I understand what you're saying - you wouldn't do that and neither would I. However, had I done that, people's perception of me would have changed (maybe lol)! They wouldn't think of me no longer as the sweet, humble human being that I am....lol

[Diane]

How you talk about someone else does reflect on the kind of person you are whether it is done in anger or not.....

Diane

[May]

True. Also, if a friend of mine was being particularly nasty about someone we both knew, it would make me wonder what they said about me to others!

[debtdbruno]

I think they all try to elevate themselves higher in the Elvis story.......either by being the 'good guy' or the 'bad guy', depending on who they are trying to impress

[monk37]

I think that as fans we're interested in the broader strokes of Elvis life

I don't need to know the gritty details or sex stuff

I find now that the celebs that I like who are alive - the more I know about them, the less I tend to like them - I prefer to maintain the barrier between, this is the public offering and that is the private life.

The turning point for me was meeting one of my favorite authors - Marion Zimmer Bradley - it was at a SF convention and I ended up spending 90 mins with her one on one.

I have to say it was in the top 10 painful times of my life - there was no connection to her until I mentioned Elvis, funnily enough - she didn't like his 50's era, but really enjoyed his 70's

I find I have never been able to read her books again.


And, my interest in Melissa Etheridge went down a bit after I read her autobiography - man, is she high maintenance.

I really think it's better not to know too much about the person because as Elvis said, The image is one thing and the human being is another

[scarlet_nell]

I have really been thinking about this is the past 24 hours. I was one of those people who actually thought that Elvis may still be alive. I've seen the specials and they really sound convincing. But now that I thought about it, I now believe that he did die in 1977. I just wanted to believe so badly that somehow he could still be alive. Anyway, now that I really think about it, could it be possible that he killed himself over the release of that book? Please don't be mad at me, it's just a thought. He was worried about the book being released because he really didn't know what all was in it. He wanted to protect his image. I just wonder if it is possible that he killed himself because he didn't want to face the world and his family with all the stuff that was in that book. On the other hand, he was very religious and I wouldn't think he would do that because it is a sin and he wouldn't get to see his mother again. I've seen an interview with his friends saying that he did kill himself so I just don't know :'(

[KPM]

I have really been thinking about this is the past 24 hours. I was one of those people who actually thought that Elvis may still be alive. I've seen the specials and they really sound convincing. But now that I thought about it, I now believe that he did die in 1977. I just wanted to believe so badly that somehow he could still be alive. Anyway, now that I really think about it, could it be possible that he killed himself over the release of that book? Please don't be mad at me, it's just a thought. He was worried about the book being released because he really didn't know what all was in it. He wanted to protect his image. I just wonder if it is possible that he killed himself because he didn't want to face the world and his family with all the stuff that was in that book. On the other hand, he was very religious and I wouldn't think he would do that because it is a sin and he wouldn't get to see his mother again. I've seen an interview with his friends saying that he did kill himself so I just don't know :'(
I know I have already posted this-but let me do it once again I with my whole heart believe that Elvis "did not" kill himself intentionally or unintentionally. I have posted my reasoning for this before.
The suicide idea mainly comes from one guy-(I won't even mention his name to give him more press)
he helped write one book years ago-and there was not a single mention of suicide being possible, then years later he came up with his theory................fantasy. I think the phone call shows he was not in great shape but ready for whatever came his way. IMO

[sasha]

I have really been thinking about this is the past 24 hours. I was one of those people who actually thought that Elvis may still be alive. I've seen the specials and they really sound convincing. But now that I thought about it, I now believe that he did die in 1977. I just wanted to believe so badly that somehow he could still be alive. Anyway, now that I really think about it, could it be possible that he killed himself over the release of that book? Please don't be mad at me, it's just a thought. He was worried about the book being released because he really didn't know what all was in it. He wanted to protect his image. I just wonder if it is possible that he killed himself because he didn't want to face the world and his family with all the stuff that was in that book. On the other hand, he was very religious and I wouldn't think he would do that because it is a sin and he wouldn't get to see his mother again. I've seen an interview with his friends saying that he did kill himself so I just don't know :'(
You might find what some think here :http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread.php?17740-Elvis-Suicide-1-2

I've known a few that believed as you do . Just keep looking. I believe you'll find that Elvis didn't kill himself, but he's no longer here either. No one can change your mind, but you. Good luck & God bless.

[scarlet_nell]

You might find what some think here :http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread.php?17740-Elvis-Suicide-1-2

I've known a few that believed as you do . Just keep looking. I believe you'll find that Elvis didn't kill himself, but he's no longer here either. No one can change your mind, but you. Good luck & God bless.

Thanks Sasha. Now I don't believe that he killed himself. He had so many reasons to live. And I don't think he would do that with his daughter in the house. I don't think he would have taken the chance for his daughter to find him dead. That would have destroyed her for life. I hate that Ginger had to find him like that :( I just have a hard time believing that was actually him in the casket. I know he had gained some weight and the body was very thin and his cousin reported that he saw beads of sweat coming off the body and his sideburn looked like it had been glued on. That's the thing that bothers me. Another thing is why is he buried next to his father and grandmother and not his mother? They were very close and it seems that Vernon would have buried him next to Gladys. Thank you again for that link :)

[May]

monk37 - I know what you mean. There is a presenter over here in the UK who I always liked. Once I read his biography he came across as really full of himself. It has put me right off him.

As far as the "suicide" question. No, he didn't commit suicide for the reasons stated earlier in another thread I think. It was a sin. Lisa was at home. The part written about some of his friends saying he killed himself could have been mis-understood. You could say that he did kill himself because he was the one using the drugs and everything else, but he certainly didnt commit suicide!

I actually remember Lamar implying it was the fans fault! I couldn't believe it when I heard it! He said the fans accepted him fat - on stage in the 1970's. If the fans hadn't accepted him the way he was, then he would have HAD to have changed!

[Getlo]

could it be possible that he killed himself over the release of that book? (

Absolutely no freakin' way.

I believe a part of Elvis wanted the book to go out, so he wouldn't have to hide anything any more.