Memphis Mafia

[May]

Who do you think, out of all the MM over the years, was the most sincere? :hmm:

I do think Red was. Even with the whole E:WH book. I do thin khe cared a LOT about EP and was very hurt when he was sacked.

[sasha]

You don't want to know what I think about the MM. ;)
But, I agree that out of the three that wrote the EWH book;
Red cared for Elvis the most & was most affected by his death.
I'll just stay out of this thread. :)

[May]

No, don't stay out of it. Please.
I am interested in everyone's opinions and will understand them all.
We are not all going to agree (do we ever) but would love to hear all sides.

[Jungleroom76]

I agree that Red & Sonny both were very loyal to Elvis and I think very hurt when Vernon fired them in '76.

As for the other Memphis Mafia members, I would have to say probably Jerry Schilling and George Klein (although he wasn't an official Mafia member) were also very loyal to Elvis. Neither ever said a bad word about Elvis and haven't to this day.

I also think Joe Esposito actually earned the money he made working for Elvis by keeping track of Elvis' expenses and everything, which considering how Elvis could spend money, was no easy feat I am sure. :hmm:

TCB!
Mike

[Diane]

I agree that Red was very sorry about the book and really did care for Elvis but I'm sorry I can't say the same for the rest except for Charlie.

Diane

[LuckyJackson]

Think they were all in it for their own personal gain and some of them still are by writing books etc.

[Maricela]

Maybe they where there for their "own personal gain" but who would not have done the same? I think Red, Sonny, Charlie ect. realy cared for the man and was not always treated nice in return. I love Elvis as much as any other fan but I don't think Elvis was always the easiest person to be around, love and protect. These guys never made much money being around Elvis when he was alive and what is so wrong with the books? If we the fans did'nt want these books there would not be any demand for'em!!!

[May]

Interesting that a few have mentioned Sonny and Red. No one has mentioned D*ve :cursing:H*bler

[Jungleroom76]

Interesting that a few have mentioned Sonny and Red. No one has mentioned D*ve :cursing:H*bler

I personally don't know that much about him to make a judgement on Dave Hebler. :hmm:

TCB!
Mike

[Jungleroom76]

...except for Charlie.

Diane

OOPS!!! :blink:

I forgot Charlie! :blush:

I agree with you Diane...Charlie was another of Elvis' inner circle that I think really loved and cared for Elvis and never had a bad word to say about him.

TCB!
Mike

[debtdbruno]

Charlie and Jerry.........

I don't know enough about Dave to comment either........

[May]

Did any of you see that programme with Frank Skinner meeting up with several of the MM? It was called "A Little Bit (or piece ?) of Elvis". Dave came across as a right, umm, well not very nice in my opinion.

the programme was all about Frank buying a velvet shirt that Elvis supposedly wore on the stage in Tupelo in '56. And he wanted to find out if it was THE shirt. He got a lot of different opinions, but it was apparently Dave Hebler that signed something to say it was genuine. I got the impression at the end of the programme that it wasn't the same shirt, anyway.

[debtdbruno]

yes I did, caught it again a few weeks ago.......Dave did come across as a 'bruiser'......

[May]

I think he came across as rather arrogant as well. Like the part when he hit Frank Skinner on the arm. There was no need to do it as hard as he did it (or looked like he did it). It seems like a very fake persona IMO.

[Diane]

Interesting that a few have mentioned Sonny and Red. No one has mentioned D*ve :cursing:H*bler

Probably because he isn't worth mentioning. Elvis didn't like him much.

Diane

[May]

Probably because he isn't worth mentioning.
Diane

Exactly my point.;)
Do you know how he even met Elvis? I heard he hadn't known him long at all? Was he a karate guy? Or some kind of security? I know nothing about him apart from how he came across in that programme(n)

[Jungleroom76]

Exactly my point.;)
Do you know how he even met Elvis? I heard he hadn't known him long at all? Was he a karate guy? Or some kind of security? I know nothing about him apart from how he came across in that programme(n)

I didn't see that program, so you know more about him than I do May... ;)

I would be most interested to learn more about him also, like how he became involved with Elvis, etc. :hmm:

TCB!
Mike

[sasha]

Here's an interview Joe Krein tried to do with Hebler.
Stress on the word, tried.

[buttonhead]

Y'all mentioned all the names...

how about ....Billy Smith ?


Billy Smith counts as MM ??? I think so ...duh ...memory lost :lol:

[LuckyJackson]

Billy Smith was family.....

[rogerM]

Exactly my point.;)
Do you know how he even met Elvis? I heard he hadn't known him long at all? Was he a karate guy? Or some kind of security? I know nothing about him apart from how he came across in that programme(n)

Elvis met Hebler at a karate studio in LA in 1972 (there is a picture of Elvis and Dave at the studio where Elvis is wearing an turban on his head). He was a karate guy and started working for Elvis in 1972/73 (I think it was)

[rogerM]

Here`s the picture

[Genie]

OOPS!!! :blink:

I forgot Charlie! :blush:

I agree with you Diane...Charlie was another of Elvis' inner circle that I think really loved and cared for Elvis and never had a bad word to say about him.

TCB!
Mike

:notworthy YES, wonderful Charlie... Amen.

[Elizasong]

If Dave Hebler only started working for Elvis in '72/73 how could he verify a shirt that was worn in Tupelo in 1956??

I don't think much of Dave especially since he got in on the Elvis WH book and hadn't been working for him as long as the other guys.

I think that each of that had a rare opportunity to travel and work for the most celebrated entertainer in the world and who wouldn't take up that chance?? They also from what I heard didn't get paid much to do it (plus the perks) and at some points most of them left the inner circle to pursue other jobs.

I did read in George Kleins book that he met up with Red years later and Red was sorry that he took part in the Elvis WH book.

My opinion I think the guys wrote it at the time mostly out of revenge and hurt because they were fired. I don't think publicly stating bad things about someoone it going to help them.

I don't know any of the memphis maphia well enough to say who is the most sincere. I believe they all thought they were they best friend to Elvis.

[May]

If Dave Hebler only started working for Elvis in '72/73 how could he verify a shirt that was worn in Tupelo in 1956??


I did read in George Kleins book that he met up with Red years later and Red was sorry that he took part in the Elvis WH book.

.

Dave said that Elvis gave him the shirt in the seventies saying it was from the fifties. It all seemed a bit vague to me. :doh: I dont know if Elvis said it was from the fifties and Dave just assumed it was from the Tupelo concert ?
I can't remember all the details to be honest, but some said it was a red shirt and some said it was blue. Someone said his mother made them and I think Bernard Lansky said it was one of his shirts. :doh::doh:

I didn't know Elvis met up with Red after the whole E:WH, I thought he spoke to him on the phone and sounded sorry.

[debtdbruno]

Can't remember which way round it was. There was a read and blue one. He wore one for the afternoon concert, and the other for the evening one........

On Frank's programme, I think it says Gladys made it...........somewhere else I heard, Natalie Wood gave it to him!!!!

Barbara Hearn left it behind in Memphis though, (Elvis asked her to hang onto it, she put it down) someone had to bring it down to Tupelo........

[Donut]

On Frank's programme, I think it says Gladys made it...........somewhere else I heard, Natalie Wood gave it to him!!!!

Barbara Hearn left it behind in Memphis though, (Elvis asked her to hang onto it, she put it down) someone had to bring it down to Tupelo........

Yes, in Alanna Nash's new book. I read it there last night ;)

[May]

Can't remember which way round it was. There was a read and blue one. He wore one for the afternoon concert, and the other for the evening one........

On Frank's programme, I think it says Gladys made it...........somewhere else I heard, Natalie Wood gave it to him!!!!

Barbara Hearn left it behind in Memphis though, (Elvis asked her to hang onto it, she put it down) someone had to bring it down to Tupelo........

did y ou see the bit where Bernard Lansky said it was one of his, as he recognised the stitching (i think it was that).

amusing how there are so many differing stories on just a shirt. :lol:

[debtdbruno]

yes I do May.............everyone tries to take credit, or muscle into something!!!!!!!!

Memories do fade as well.............LOL

Each time a story is told it gets larger.........like Pinoccio's nose..............

[Diane]

yes I do May.............everyone tries to take credit, or muscle into something!!!!!!!!

Memories do fade as well.............LOL

Each time a story is told it gets larger.........like Pinoccio's nose..............


That is so true LOL. This must be the velvet shirt that Elvis wore at the Tupelo concert I presume? I also read somewhere that Gladys had made it (the dark blue one) but I wasn't aware that there was also a red one. In that case, it kind of sounds like it they might have been bought at Lansky's. Elvis was in the habit of buying more than one colour of some article of clothing that he liked.

Diane

[Diane]

Y'all mentioned all the names...

how about ....Billy Smith ?


Billy Smith counts as MM ??? I think so ...duh ...memory lost :lol:

Billy was also part of the MM but I never think of him that way either...always as "family".

Diane

[May]

That is so true LOL. This must be the velvet shirt that Elvis wore at the Tupelo concert I presume? I also read somewhere that Gladys had made it (the dark blue one) but I wasn't aware that there was also a red one. In that case, it kind of sounds like it they might have been bought at Lansky's. Elvis was in the habit of buying more than one colour of some article of clothing that he liked.

Diane

There's an album with Elvis in a red velvet shirt and a red background. (y)

[Elizasong]

George Kleins book, George spoke with Red and Red told George that he was sorry. I don't know if Red every told Elvis his was sorry. It was just coming out when Elvis died.

I thought I read that one of the shirts Elvis wore in Tupelo were given to him by Natalie Wood.

[Diane]

There's an album with Elvis in a red velvet shirt and a red background. (y)

Thanks May, I have that album in vinyl, I just never connected that shirt with the dark blue one.

Diane

[monk37]

All the years I was growing up and being an Elvis fan, I wanted to meet Joe Esposito and Jerry Schilling - when I was younger, I thought they were the best 2 friends that he had.

But, as more books came out and more was revealed - too often a person's role was left out or reduced, depending on who wrote what

Putting it together now, I think that Red West was the best friend Elvis had - both Red and Sony maintained the Bodyguard book was to wake Elvis up, both have regretted it - and I believe them. Sony's taking care of business was a good years later book.

Dave Hebler wasn't in the same orbit as the other guys, and so isn't really a consideration.

It would probably have been better for Elvis if Larry Geller had never met him.

Marty Lacker seems to me to be a lighter version of Joe.

George Klein I had the most interest in because he was the only one who didn't make his living off of Elvis.

Jerry, Joe, Marty, Lamar, Red and Sony came and went - as they developed other careers, but returned to the fold when needed.

Charlie Hodge is the one who creeps me out the most. He, like George, had a career independent of Elvis - but that Charlie gave his own singing career up to be the guy who hands out the water and scarves.... with that jackal/hyena laugh before Elvis even finished a not that funny joke - funny, but not to the degree that Charlie sucked up


Lamar's role seemed to mostly be the butt of jokes in the gang

Marty's recently regretted his own book, Portrait of a Friend.


Joe and Larry seem to be the most prolific on the book front.

Elvis sure seemed to have employed most of his family, Billy Smith, Harold Lloyd, Vester and others.


I did meet Joe and Jerry 4 years ago - but it didn't turn out well.

They did a Q&A at a convention, and I couldn't think of anything to ask. After, when it was over, I asked them the question about Elvis becoming a religion in the future.

They halflistened and took turns screaming at me - I detailed this in an earlier thread.....

[RS277]

I think people like Red West, Sonny West, Allan Fortes and Jerry Schilling truely loved Elvis. Most of the others had their own agendas.
Other people like, Charlie Hodge, JD Sumner & Joe Curcio also loved Elvis.

[presley31]

Maybe it's just me but it looks like some of the posts are gone?????

[lvs2day]

i could never understand how they - especially RED could have bin involved with that rag that they called a book , they said to much, and they turned on a good friend one they were never going to find in their lifetime, and a friend who shared his great life and perks with them . Working for ELVIS PRESLEY had it's up's and downs , i'm sure more up's than downs , and the whole b.s. they did the book to save his life etc.. is just that b.s . i mean they get fired and then decide to try to save his life especially in such a ridiculous way, why didn't they leave years earlier when they saw it getting out of control, ah c'mon . I among many fans were glad that they were gone they were never nice guys especially to foreighn fans , and most fans in general ask many fan photogs and they will tell you how all 3 were real a......

[May]

They may have "given to Elvis every day" but wasnt that their job? and what they were paid for?

[presley31]

That sounds more like what they'd say. The book was done because they were mad & their" bank" was gone,IMO.
Everyone had to grow up then. Although most have continued living off his memory ,in one way or another.

agree with you on this one.

[Lisarose]

Here's an interview Joe Krein tried to do with Hebler.
Stress on the word, tried.

Where's the interview? I'm not always real clear on Red & where he went off to after Elvis' death. Was he at the funeral? I do remember an interview with Red, where he makes no apologies but does state that OK yes, partly he did it for the money! I think it the interview was on Elvis.com.au but I don't recall.
But I do believe Red and George were as good pals as anyone could have. JMO!

[barron]

I agree that Red was very sorry about the book and really did care for Elvis but I'm sorry I can't say the same for the rest except for Charlie.

Diane
there was only 4 people that i know there were honest and loyal that was jerry , David Stanly,charlie and Billy

[sasha]

Where's the interview? I'm not always real clear on Red & where he went off to after Elvis' death. Was he at the funeral? I do remember an interview with Red, where he makes no apologies but does state that OK yes, partly he did it for the money! I think it the interview was on Elvis.com.au but I don't recall.
But I do believe Red and George were as good pals as anyone could have. JMO!'

I forgot, was going to stay out of this thread .;)
People have different opinions . Here's the interview .Hebler wasn't too friendly IMO.
Text form: http://www.elvis2001.net/dave%20hebler.htm

[sasha]

They were all for sale & still are, IMO.

[hounddog]

I think Charlie was very loyal to Elvis as was Jerry Schilling.

[kathy parkinson]

Dead right May, mine is too.

[Diane]

Never got to go roller skating, the movies or the amusement park with any of mine either.:'(

Diane

[debtdbruno]

I agree, in so far as Elvis isn't here to tell his side of any story. Therefore anyone, MM, the women etc... can all tell their version and not get called into question about the viablity of the story.
However, would we get the truth from Elvis either? He kept his private life, private...........as he should if he wished.
But, would he be willing to contradict what others were saying about him or their life with him?

[kathy parkinson]

No i don't think he would Deb.

[Diane]

I agree with you both Deb and Kathy, I don't think he would either.

Diane

[KPM]

I agree, in so far as Elvis isn't here to tell his side of any story. Therefore anyone, MM, the women etc... can all tell their version and not get called into question about the viablity of the story.
However, would we get the truth from Elvis either? He kept his private life, private...........as he should if he wished.But, would he be willing to contradict what others were saying about him or their life with him?

I have often said that Elvis would most likely be no different than anyone-he would shade his version of differing events to make himself look in the best light.
But he might also add insight that we, and even the MM have no inkling of......his own opinions on the MM (they have had well over 30 years to give their opinions on him) his own insight into why he did certain things, his own ideas on the motivations of people that surrounded him................and yes maybe even things about these people that they did not know he knew-secrets and habits of they who now point out so easily his.
If he had licked his prescription drug problem-maybe he would give insight into why he thougth there was a pill for everything.................I mean the list of things we have little clue to from his point of view is endless.
We only have the observations and thoughts of others.
I have long tried to make this point here-and IMO its a very fair and justified point-that the story is all from others-he was the center of it all, he was the reason for it all .......and its only fair to give some thought to what he might have said.
He may have said-okay Marty is telling it like it was, or Red and Sonny are preaching the gospel-then again he might say "Well now lets see it from my side........."

[KPM]

Never got to go roller skating, the movies or the amusement park with any of mine either.:'(

Diane
Boy thats for sure, nor did any of my employers ever volunteer to help with medical bills, or to fly me to a special doctor or clinic.
I was never given a paid vacation to Hawaii, nor to Vegas or LA etc................I was never given a house, the down payment for my house- nor a car or motorcycle (although one boss offered me mileage payment when I used my car:lol:)

I also never met Sinatra, or Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Nixon, etc..............thru my boss......nor road horses, motorcycles, cross country road trips................never got to sing with my boss just to relax.
I never encountered" boss groupies who would do anything to meet the boss" and I never felt I was lucky to be near one of the most charismatic people on earth-none of my bosses was charismatic nor smiled much.

I was on call 24/7 on 2 of my differing jobs over the years, and it was the pits-so I know what that is like.
In my first real job I made $1.25 an hour "packing shingles" for my step dad.
I was a Assistant Manager of a Hardees in 1972 and I made $85 for a 45-65 hour work week.
I worked in sales for a bakery later and that was union work which was $2.45 starting out in 1974 with health insurance and benefits. I went to work for a bank in 1988 and made $5.00 an hour as a loan servicing insurance clerk.
Now to compare early 1960s wages to the MM wages my first step dad was an over the road trucker for a few years and I recall he cleared about $65 a week for endless hours on the road. So all employment has its pluses and its drawbacks.

[Diane]

Great post Ken. (y) That's the whole trouble with everything we've heard and read...only one-sided. It would have been great to hear Elvis' thoughts on so many things and other people surrounding him. Sure he might have tried in some instances to protect himself but he might also have taken on some blame that wasn't totally his. He was a very complicated person.

Diane

[KPM]

I will say this-out of all the insiders, MM etc....I would trust Red West to be the most truthful, also the most understanding of the situation Elvis ended up in.
I read a quote of his in the book "Elvis Up Close" Red says (paraphrasing) that Elvis was in his room in Vegas for most of the engagements, that when he tried to go out-he got mobbed and it caused problems so they would be their 3-4 weeeks on a stretch and couped up.... Red himself said it drove him crazy and that it was worse for Elvis. Elvis was looking for a way to feel better......theres only one way that situation can go- the way it did. page 264
Now to me that shows understanding for the situation that Elvis was uniquely in-few individuals are in this type of situation.
If some of these books showed a little understanding, a little more thought about how tough that situation was (or may have been) perhaps they would be received better by people.
I found little understanding in EWH, I found little thought on Dunleavys part as to why it was such-the concentration was on the actions of Elvis-not of what possible spurred the situations.
Example-Elvis went over the edge some during the divorce and his problems multiplied-talk of hits on Stone. etc.....................Lets take the name Elvis out of the equation and just say John Smiths wife leaves him for another man-theres a 50/50 chance that this no name John Smith whos pride is hurt, who loves his wife, whos home is now destroyed may think along the same lines, he may drink, or do pills to the extreme and he may even think of murdering the ex and her new boyfriend.
Many times murders do happen in this situation.....................now add back the name Elvis Presley known worldwide as one of the sexiest men, and multiply the feelings of the world now knowing "Elvis has lost his wife to another man" 100 fold worse- but did anyone add this thought into a book to show Elvis acted in a way 50% of other males (or females) might in a much worse situation multiplied by the world stage. IMO that would show some understanding of how Elvis may have felt at the time.
No we hear he waved guns around, wanted to have the Mafia hit Stone, just went nuts-as if Elvis should have been superhuman-in a very human situation. Elvis was in the 50% of the population who just could not handle the problem and he behaved badly-he was not superhuman he was not a God who could turn the other cheek, he was not above having his ego bruised.

[May]

Sonny said that the book had been sensationalised and that the dark side of the story was played up and the good times were made to sound like they happened seldom he blamed Steve Dunleavy and said that they had no control over how the book was marketed.

Sonny could well be correct. The book could have been sensationalised. But isn't it easy to blame someone (namely Steve Dunleavy) who wasn't a friend of Elvis's and therefore doesn't attend (I assume) Elvis reunion parties and therefore can never give his side.:hmm:

[Teddy]

Sonny could well be correct. The book could have been sensationalised. But isn't it easy to blame someone (namely Steve Dunleavy) who wasn't a friend of Elvis's and therefore doesn't attend (I assume) Elvis reunion parties and therefore can never give his side.:hmm:

The thing is, that's kind of what Steve Dunleavy does. He's a tabloid-level 'shock jock' style of journalist and was most likely brought onto the project for that very reason.

[May]

If that's correct then, surely that was the reason S, R and D chose him then ??

[kathy parkinson]

Well said May.

[Teddy]

If that's correct then, surely that was the reason S, R and D chose him then ??

I would assume that the publisher brought Dunleavy in as part of the deal the others signed, because the rest of them couldn't be relied upon to either write very well or maintain the tone which the publisher expected to sell.

[Donut]

I think all the original MM were sincere and really loved him. What happens is that in a long lasting friendship like theirs there are always frictions and problems. They used to spend almost 24h a day together so they got to see all the good and bad from each other. It was Elvis who chose them and wanted them always around, so either Elvis was as "bad" as them or they were all basically good people. I know they could have been more careful with the things they have told about Elvis, but they have also shared a lot of inside information for those who want to know Elvis as a real human being, not just the star.
As for Elvis what happened well, I don't think they should have written the book because Elvis had enough problems by then to have to face another one. But they had the guts to write it while he was alive while the ones who critisized Red and Sonny for it waited untill Elvis was dead to write their own.

History wouldn't be the same if no one dared to tell both the good and bad.

[Getlo]

I won't judge them

Yeah, right.

Every one of your posts judges the MM harshly, including the one above. :rolleyes:

[Getlo]

That sounds more like what they'd say. The book was done because they were mad & their" bank" was gone

Well, as long as you're not judging them then ... ;)

[Diane]

Tony W :And just because someone meets & talks to these guys doesn't mean they know them. It would take years living around them & seeing how they treat others to even come close, IMO.
I won't judge them ,but I don't have to like them or their actions. :)

Everyone around Elvis was used to dealing with the public and I believe some of them got very good at manipulation and came out smelling of roses while Elvis took the blame. It doesn't matter how many times you meet and talk with some of them.....you won't necessarily know them or be able to count on what they tell you.

Diane

[sasha]

Yeah, right.

Every one of your posts judges the MM harshly, including the one above. :rolleyes:
Only in as much as others judge Elvis. This is an Elvis site, not a MM site I think.;)
I cannot hide my dislike for them & things they do anymore than others can hide the dislike of things Elvis did.

IMO, Elvis was a very sick man physically & emotionally. I've found little excuse for some except jealousy & anger.
After all, they're still here .Living off Elvis, same as before.Where's Elvis?

I know some are smart enough to see the difference. :)

[sasha]

Everyone around Elvis was used to dealing with the public and I believe some of them got very good at manipulation and came out smelling of roses while Elvis took the blame. It doesn't matter how many times you meet and talk with some of them.....you won't necessarily know them or be able to count on what they tell you.

Diane

I agree. Even living closely, every day. How much do any of us really know someone else?
It''s not what comes out of our mouths, but our actions that show how we really are.

[debtdbruno]

I will say this-out of all the insiders, MM etc....I would trust Red West to be the most truthful, also the most understanding of the situation Elvis ended up in.
I read a quote of his in the book "Elvis Up Close" Red says (paraphrasing) that Elvis was in his room in Vegas for most of the engagements, that when he tried to go out-he got mobbed and it caused problems so they would be their 3-4 weeeks on a stretch and couped up.... Red himself said it drove him crazy and that it was worse for Elvis. Elvis was looking for a way to feel better......theres only one way that situation can go- the way it did. page 264
Now to me that shows understanding for the situation that Elvis was uniquely in-few individuals are in this type of situation.
If some of these books showed a little understanding, a little more thought about how tough that situation was (or may have been) perhaps they would be received better by people.
I found little understanding in EWH, I found little thought on Dunleavys part as to why it was such-the concentration was on the actions of Elvis-not of what possible spurred the situations.
Example-Elvis went over the edge some during the divorce and his problems multiplied-talk of hits on Stone. etc.....................Lets take the name Elvis out of the equation and just say John Smiths wife leaves him for another man-theres a 50/50 chance that this no name John Smith whos pride is hurt, who loves his wife, whos home is now destroyed may think along the same lines, he may drink, or do pills to the extreme and he may even think of murdering the ex and her new boyfriend.
Many times murders do happen in this situation.....................now add back the name Elvis Presley known worldwide as one of the sexiest men, and multiply the feelings of the world now knowing "Elvis has lost his wife to another man" 100 fold worse- but did anyone add this thought into a book to show Elvis acted in a way 50% of other males (or females) might in a much worse situation multiplied by the world stage. IMO that would show some understanding of how Elvis may have felt at the time.
No we hear he waved guns around, wanted to have the Mafia hit Stone, just went nuts-as if Elvis should have been superhuman-in a very human situation. Elvis was in the 50% of the population who just could not handle the problem and he behaved badly-he was not superhuman he was not a God who could turn the other cheek, he was not above having his ego bruised.

brilliant Ken:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notwor thy

[May]

A very well written post Ken.
I completely agree with that.

Seeing as most (if not all) of us fans were not there during the years 56 to 77 the only things we have to go on are opinions of those who were there, books that have been written and opinions of others, once we have heard them all and read them all , all we can do is form our OWN opinion. I think we all do that and most of the time agree with each other. Occasionally we dont, and thats fine. It is, after all, OUR opinion/s. We are all entitled to them and that is what we do here, discuss them.

Again, great post. Very interesting to read.

[Getlo]

If you were a member of Elvis's circle and knew him personally then that's great, if your not then like everyone else here you are getting everything second hand, i don't have a problem with any of the guys who were with Elvis, i wasn't there. Hope i haven't offended you Tony.

Not meaning to speak on behalf of Tony here, but that is wrong.

Some of us here have met and spent time with members of the MM, so the knowledge and opinions are straight from the horses' mouth.

I've met most of them MM. Sasha has not. She will never let go of her blinders and admit that Elvis was just as much at fault in their final argument. In her eyes, the man could do no wrong.

Elvis fired them - actually, like a coward, he got his daddy to do it for him.

Fact: Sonny and Red were two of the most loyal people and friends Elvis ever had. One falling out canot ruin over 20 years of frienship, protection and love. It is obvious - at least to anyone with half a brain - that, had he lived, Elvis would have taken Sonny and Red back into the fold.

All this moral outrage and indignation towards the M on Elvis' "behalf" is quite sickening.

[KPM]

[QUOTE=Getlo;362472]Not meaning to speak on behalf of Tony here, but that is wrong.

Some of us here have met and spent time with members of the MM, so the knowledge and opinions are straight from the horses' mouth.

I've met most of them MM. Sasha has not. She will never let go of her blinders and admit that Elvis was just as much at fault in their final argument. In her eyes, the man could do no wrong.

Elvis fired them - actually, like a coward, he got his daddy to do it for him.

Fact: Sonny and Red were two of the most loyal people and friends Elvis ever had. One falling out canot ruin over 20 years of frienship, protection and love. It is obvious - at least to anyone with half a brain - that, had he lived, Elvis would have taken Sonny and Red back into the fold.

All this moral outrage and indignation towards the M on Elvis' "behalf" is quite sickening.[/QUOTE

Don't misunderstand, I was not a member of the MM, I was just allowed to particpate in some of the things they did because of my friendship with Richard to begin with and as time went on I guess Elvis began to trust me being around from time to time and I got along well with most of the MM.. I witnessed a lot of stuff between the guys and between them and Elvis. As I saw it the only one who vied for and worried about position and closeness to Elvis was Esposito who it seems always thought he was special and above the guys as far as Elvis was concerned but I was told that Elvis didn't think so and neither did the guys. Fact is in '64 Elvis became unhappy with Joe on a trip back to Memphis from Hollywood and Elvis made it miserable for Joe enough for Joe to leave, he was gone for a year when he called from California and asked Marty, who was made the Foreman by Elvis when Joe left, if he would ask Elvis if he would take him back. Marty had no problem doing that because he never worried about position with Elvis. Elvis was too smart about people and he easily figured out why certain people were there. Whether they were there for him or what they could get. Elvis knew that Marty was there for the former and Joe was there for the latter. He expressed that a couple of times not only to Marty but to a couple of others about the two of them.]
Would we have read your name -or heard your name in any books? Most people who were around Elvis enough (even just friends of the MM) ended up somewhere mentioned by name.

[kathy parkinson]

Thank you Getlo, i stand corrected.

[Unchained Melody]

There aren't many of the MM I don't like.

Marty comes across as an A hole, or maybe its just me...Lamar tends to go that way too.

I think Red, Sonny, Jerry, Charlie were loyal friends to him..

[sasha]

Lots of interviews here, including from the MM:
http://www.elvis2001.net/interviews.htm

[May]

Thanks Sasha.

[KPM]

Not meaning to speak on behalf of Tony here, but that is wrong.

Some of us here have met and spent time with members of the MM, so the knowledge and opinions are straight from the horses' mouth.

I've met most of them MM. Sasha has not. She will never let go of her blinders and admit that Elvis was just as much at fault in their final argument. In her eyes, the man could do no wrong.

Elvis fired them - actually, like a coward, he got his daddy to do it for him.
Fact: Sonny and Red were two of the most loyal people and friends Elvis ever had. One falling out canot ruin over 20 years of frienship, protection and love. It is obvious - at least to anyone with half a brain - that, had he lived, Elvis would have taken Sonny and Red back into the fold.

All this moral outrage and indignation towards the M on Elvis' "behalf" is quite sickening.

I think you and I have talked about this before-I agree it could have been handled better, but that was pretty much what Vernons job was. I think partly because Elvis would get mad and decide to fire someone-and then cool down and not go thru with it. Vernon was the perfect hatchet man... as we called it in many places I have worked.
In the real world( apart from MM and Elvis)-its not much different, the man who decides to cut peoples jobs or to fire someone-is never in my experience the won who swings the ax. I have been employed in many various situations in the 40 years of my worklife and have been laid off 3 times-twice I just got a notice in my check, and after 15 years working for a bakery in sales I heard we were closing up at the end of the next month-over the radio on the way to a doctors visit for ulcers (did'nt help the ulcers much):D
The reason for the firings was suppose to be the lawsuits that had cropped up in the 70s over bodyguards-I truely think that was part of the reason. Sure there were others, like Red telling Elvis he should quit the pills, and the fact that this close group of friends/employees/employer were getting on each others nerves from so much close contact.
BUT.... If Elvis had done it in person( and I had been him)-
I would have showed them the lawyers fees for the lawsuits and the $650,000 that Elvis had paid out of court to Edward Ashley who on Oct. 11, 1974 had filed a $6.3 million suit against Elvis and the guys involved for the incident of May 20, 1974 at the Sahara Tahoe. Page 278-279 of "Elvis Up Close-In the Words of those who knew Him Best" also I think its mentioned somewhere in the Rev. of the MM but can't remember exactly where.
I'm sure we are all pretty well aware of this incident
this guy had been drinking and was either on the wrong floor or was lost and was playing with light switches on Elvis's floor and yelling "Wheres the party??"-the security guards came running so did Sonny and Sonny throws him to the floor and the security guards cuffed him and took him to a security holding room down the hall
Elvis goes down to find out what this guy is about-to question him-. David Stanley Red and Sonny are there also and the handcuffed guy kicks at Sonny cursing as Elvis asks him what this is all about-Red drops down and gives this guy right into his mouth-teeth break , the guy falls back and begins to gurgle blood spewing everywhere-Elvis madly yells at Red for hitting a cuffed man who is not threat to anyone- with hotel security and the guys standing over him. Elvis then began to truely try and help this guy and when it all calmed down he spoke with him and helped security escort him to the elevator.
If the guy got $650,000 this probably cost Elvis another $100,000 in extra legal fees-just for this one situation.
So could lawsuits and the cost of them ......be a reason to let someone go-IMO sure.
Name any business that would not consider doing the same thing if this happened more than once?

[KPM]

The closest I have come to anyone who actually went to Graceland and met the guys and Elvis was a guy named Bill Dunnaway he was born in Memphis and he worked for Colonial Bakery in Memphis-he said he was the sales managerfor a number of years.
I got to know him in 1976 when he was transferred to St. Louis as plant manager here -which I worked for then.
According to him he told me on a couple occasions he delivered bread personally to Graceland for special occasions and met Elvis who invited him to several barbecues and outtings like the Memphian and the amusement park visits. He only went to a handfull of these outtings because bread men and managers start there day at about 3:00am and usually have 10-12 hour days ......so the times Elvis would be going to the movies a bread man would be long in bed.
But he did go (according to him) a few times and his only observations to me about the visits were that Elvis was very "down to earth and friendly" and that the others "sure jumped" when Elvis said anything. He never went into a lot of detail and the couple times he and I spoke about it-we were at company parties and so much was going on I could not corner him to ask more. How true his story is I can not say-but he was one of the nicest plant managers I ever worked for-on Memorial Day, 4th of July he would barbecue on the loading dock for the salesman as they came in for the night, soda and tea in coolers for the taking.

[sasha]

Thanks Sasha.

You're welcome, May.
I just like to hear or read exactly what everyone really has to say.
Birthdays & Valentines here . Everyone have a great weekend !!:D

[See See Rider]

I really don't know... It's hard to say. Its interesting lisitening to their stories though. I do think Red, Sonny and Dave Hebler made a huge mistake writing that book about Elvis. It really hurt him. I would hope they have sincere regrets in their hearts.

[May]

I really don't know... It's hard to say. Its interesting lisitening to their stories though. I do think Red, Sonny and Dave Hebler made a huge mistake writing that book about Elvis. It really hurt him. I would hope they have sincere regrets in their hearts.
good post. (y)

[Junebug]

For many, this is just another example of the 'Memphis Mafia' at its finest.

The information ELVIS fans gather about them isn't only about who allegedly told Elvis to record at American Studios in '69.


:king:

[KPM]

I have about 60 books on Elvis including the Rev Of the MM-I love bios of any type and have about 300 hundred on actors, singers, politicians, historical figures etc....I love reading about people who have distinguished themselves in life-and then trying to figure out what made them special, what made them tick, what ticked them off...........
Call me a student of human nature-because the more I undestand about people it helps me understand myself-so its kind of therapy.
I do not see these guys as villains, nor heros, I see them as people............and all the shades of black and white that includes.
But Elvis is the special one-he is the world shaker, he is the charismatic hugely talented singer that the world loves-he will always spur strong emotions from fans-thats why hes still remembered.
I am wise enough to understand we all have the goods and the bads in our make up, if someone says they don't-keep a close eye on them-they may walk on water.
As for Elvis's complete history-I am willing to go on record-what more can be told, what more can be guessed or speculated, what more can be surmised from his history???
I'm sure my thinking enough is enough will not stop a slew of new books next year-I would love to see a few books that concentrate on his singing ability, his roots in music in more depth, and the charisma-I recall someone saying that a room could hold a dozen Hollywood stars and when Elvis walked in-you saw the true charisma that few individuals in life have.................................like I said 95% good-5% bad and the bad is what seems to be the focus and the seller..............???

[Tommy]

This thread is now open again for discussions. (y)

[Brian]

For me I never got why Red and Sonny were so villified because of EWH.

Most of what's in the book is factual and the stories in it have been used in other books

It doesn't make Elvis look bad or anything it's basically like just another biography except it was the first written by an insider.

I think the reason Elvis was worried about this book is they talked about his drug abuse and he was in denial about that and he knew what they said is true.

I think Elvis actually came across poorly in Dee Stanley and the Stanley's brothers books, Revelations of the Memphis mafia, and Elvis and Me but not in EWH
Since Elvis didn't want Elvis what happened to be published I can imagine his displeasure and reaction at those books had he lived.

I think Elvis would've completley disowned the Stanley Brothers.

[debtdbruno]

it was the first one to 'open the can of worms' book...........when he tried so hard to be private, it had to be especially hard to know 'everyone' was going to know about the pills, affairs, temper tantrums, threatening to have Mike Stone killed etc............

[KPM]

]For me I never got why Red and Sonny were so villified because of EWH[/B].

Most of what's in the book is factual and the stories in it have been used in other books

It doesn't make Elvis look bad or anything it's basically like just another biography except it was the first written by an insider.

I think the reason Elvis was worried about this book is they talked about his drug abuse and he was in denial about that and he knew what they said is true.

I think Elvis actually came across poorly in Dee Stanley and the Stanley's brothers books, Revelations of the Memphis mafia, and Elvis and Me but not in EWH
Since Elvis didn't want Elvis what happened to be published I can imagine his displeasure and reaction at these books.
I think the problem with the book-is the same IMO as what Red and Sonny have said-Dunleavy.
The tone of the book was not so much biographical as it was sensational. The title on the cover
EWH-"the dark other side of the brightest star in the World"
Doesnt that cover tell you where the emphasis is going to be in the book???
Red and Sonny say that Dunleavy told this story emphasising the bad-the same thing which bothered them-bothered the fans-and Red and Sonny were known to the fans.... Dunleavy was not...............so right or wrong they were villified.
The story Dunleavy was told-was then in turn told in the most senasitionilistic way and marketed in that same fashion.
The Wests say they had no say so in how it was marketed and who the writer helping them was-but they did not like the outcome regardless of how truthful the basic story is.
I have always said the way someone tells the story is crucial to the telling-if you use the lowest adjectives to describe a situation it makes the subject seem even worse-you can tell a story and have some tact-have some understanding.
Dunleavy was the "STAR" tabloids top reporter-and understanding and tact have never been the standards of their yellow journalistic magazine. MY journalism teacher actually used the Star and the Enquirer in class to teach about yellow journalism.

[scarlet_nell]

I don't know enough about the Memphis Mafia to respond to this post. You would think I would since I live in the Memphis area

[sasha]

MEMPHIS MAFIA REMEMBERS



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ggk-7TNuK8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ggk-7TNuK8

[May]

Thanks for posting Sasha.
I like Red. He comes across as very genuine. Billy too.
What year was this, do you know? Sonny------wearing a pony tail!:blink::blink::blush::lol:

[sasha]

Thanks for posting Sasha.
I like Red. He comes across as very genuine. Billy too.
What year was this, do you know? Sonny------wearing a pony tail!:blink::blink::blush::lol:

No idea when this interview was done. Just thought people should see all sides.
I think I'd be more open to Sonny & Marty if they'd not act so hateful to someone asking them a question.
Yes, Red stayed out of this mostly, to his credit.

[TCB81975]

I've talked with a few of these guys in the past and I think a few of them got a bad rap from the fans and press. Some of the others seem like snakes in the grass. Red and Sonny West seem sincere in the way that they feel about Elvis. I think a few of those guys are still riding the gravy train with EPE. Bottom line is this, its easy for all of us to sit on our perch and peck, but in the end the Memphis Mafia(all of them) were the one's that were with E from beginning to end, not us. So realistically, is it fair for anyone to judge these cats? Only they truly know whether they were telling the truth or not or whether they told too much. In the end, Elvis was the biggest superstar of the twentieth century and that pressure could get to anyone. Nothing in print will ever change his status in my book.

[Lisarose]

Lots of good posts, loved your opinions KPM, thank you.
Sasha, thanks for posting the YouTube clip, never saw that.

I'm only now reading EWH, I pick it up, read for a long while, then it gets ugly and I have to put it down. Red West in a later interview says everything in the book
is true. who am I to argue? I just wish that there weren't comments that said "to the best of my memory" or "as I recall" Why aren't there solid sources and
I wish that Dunleavy didn't write like he was trying to writie the next Gone With the Wind - fiction based on fact, that is. and why is it that I keep seeing Red and Sonny
as hillbillies and Hebler as some angry hard-***?
For me, there's so much flip-flopping with Red and Sonny - "Elvis is so nice, but he's a complete jerk, but he's just so generous, even when he's mean as a snake,
but you can't help but like him - and we knew better but we were compelled to do what he wanted us to do!"
It has my head spinning!
I do beleive that Red & Sonny wanted to help Elvis and they were angry, I just wish they'd found a better author to help them sort out their thoughts.

here's another interview to read - Red West talks to Elvis Australia
http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/interview_with_red_west.shtml

[TTWII2001]

You see, everything that was said in all the post IMO all makes sens..in a certain point of you....and this is all the point it's just perception...when youre around someone that you work for or like.....it's natural to do what he needs what he wants at that time...and at that time it all make sens...and as times goes by...with a little back off perspective....a little frustration....and a little need of money....it could be a million reason......you start to critisize what as been done ....Elvis was a man...with a gift of god...he was goodlooking, a fantastic voice...he had everything, but that don't mean he couldnt have his kryptonit.....I mean who the hell are we to start mumbling on things that most of us were not there and start judging ...wow we are fans and love Elvis music....and by that we must love what comes with it...good or bad.....because what makes Elvis...ELVIS...is maybe the way he choose to be...and that includes maybe pills....bad temper....EVERYTHING....


thanks for reading me ( maybe I was a little out of track...but thats my point of you..)

[TCB81975]

[QUOTE=Lisarose;370507]Lots of good posts, loved your opinions KPM, thank you.
Sasha, thanks for posting the YouTube clip, never saw that.

I'm only now reading EWH, I pick it up, read for a long while, then it gets ugly and I have to put it down.

I see your point to a degree Lisarose. I have two copies of EWH. I've had one since I was about thirteen and back then it was a pretty heavy read. Now I reread it along with some of my other Elvis "insider" books about once a year. I didnt think EWH was near as bad as "Elvis" by Albert Goldman.