Death or Re-Birth

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

John Lennon commented that Elvis died when he went into the army (metaphorically) and to some that might be the case! There are some who would say that Elvis was his most vital in the 1955-57 period with a ground breaking style and delivery in his music, fashion and his wild movements.

Immediately after the army Elvis was seconded in to the film industry as a primary outlet until breaking free and bursting back to life in the '68 Special', however do you believe that the move to movies was a career enhancing prospect, moving Elvis from one medium to another bringing him to the masses and a more middle of the road longer lasting career?

Would Elvis have burned out if he continued the same material as 1955-57, would the fans have grown weary?

[Tommy]

We will never know what could have transpired if the Army had not called him duty. I do believe the movies was all wrong for him, even though it gave him security that he evidently needed and wanted. The movies moguls never really gave him the chance to act, and then the Army interrupted the movie career.

I believe his music would have changed from 1955-57 as he developed.

Elvis sort of died one way like John Lennon commented, Elvis got caught up in Col. Parkers advice I suppose.

Elvis finally broke out of it all and in 1968 brought him back to us all with a bang!! Wow how great he was again.

Elvis never really lost his appeal, it was always right there waiting to explode again!

[shelley.m.]

True "Rock'n'Roll" died when Elvis went into the Army.No doubt about that.

[beckelvis]

you have the whole reason Tommy(y)(y)

[jasmine123456]

We will never know what could have transpired if the Army had not called him duty. I do believe the movies was all wrong for him, even though it gave him security that he evidently needed and wanted. The movies moguls never really gave him the chance to act, and then the Army interrupted the movie career.

I believe his music would have changed from 1955-57 as he developed.

Elvis sort of died one way like John Lennon commented, Elvis got caught up in Col. Parkers advice I suppose.

Elvis finally broke out of it all and in 1968 brought him back to us all with a bang!! Wow how great he was again.

Elvis never really lost his appeal, it was always right there waiting to explode again!


wow, don't know you dont like his movies, I think they are the best, Elvis was happy and handsome in those movies, i wish he could go on his movies and he could live up to 100 yrs old, :) I absolutely love those songs in movies.

Give them another chance, please, :)

[Diane]

We will never know what could have transpired if the Army had not called him duty. I do believe the movies was all wrong for him, even though it gave him security that he evidently needed and wanted. The movies moguls never really gave him the chance to act, and then the Army interrupted the movie career.

I believe his music would have changed from 1955-57 as he developed.

Elvis sort of died one way like John Lennon commented, Elvis got caught up in Col. Parkers advice I suppose.

Elvis finally broke out of it all and in 1968 brought him back to us all with a bang!! Wow how great he was again.

Elvis never really lost his appeal, it was always right there waiting to explode again!


I agree, Elvis never really lost his appeal and in the '68 Special he showed the world how versatile he was and that he was capable of growth and improvement. If only more fans had seen how superior and wonderful a lot of his new songs were instead of crying for the old "Hound Dog", "Blue Suede Shoes" etc.

Diane

[Donut]

Maybe the Elvis that died after the army was the Elvis Lennon liked but that doesn't mean he didn't sing great songs after that. It would be like saying Lennon died after he left the Beatles... his fans wouldn't agree with this either, they just changed styles.

[Miss Clawdy]

I voted for Elvis' Rock'n'Roll style died in the army. Interestingly I just read an article by David Seaton and there was a passage which I think sums it up pretty well:


......because of something John Lennon said when Presley died. Asked for comment the ex-Beatle said, "Elvis died when he joined the army". it was a brilliant remark, because before being drafted Elvis had been a national symbol of rebellion and untamed sexuality. Along with James Dean and the young Marlon Brando, he was a symbol of a new and dangerous way of being young. When they drafted him and cut off his hair, they turned him into a pasteurized version of himself. The fat, drugged, hambone, kitch, rhinestone, "living dead," Elvis was born in the US Army.

That is why, a generation later, Muhammed Ali's, rebellion was so important, he didn't let himself be pasteurized by the system, he made no concessions... He was absolutely true to himself and to those who looked up to him. Authenticity personified. He suffered and was vindicated. You cannot be both a sheepdog and a wolf, you have to choose.

In fact it was the Colonel who decided that Elvis' career would take this turn of events and I don't think it was for the better.

[Raised on Rock]

Elvis Changed Style And Saved His Career For The Better? YES

He could not keep doing the same thing, just as Chuck Berry did, same old Johnny B. Good riff was not doing good at the charts by '60, and all 50's rockers died because of sticking to the 50's sound.

Tastes had changed, that Lennon, please give me a break, ALSO THE BEATLES STOPED BEING A ROCK AND ROLL BAND in the early 60's, they cut the sideburns and pompadours, quitted the black leather for suits and tie, dropped the rebel image for a mainstream line of pop bubble gum songs for everybody's appeal, and they did it just for the money, how different was that from Lennon accusations towards Presley betrayal to rock and roll? F"#$ Lennon always ends up being a total phony by opening his big mouth, like writing Imagine no possessions while owning a mansion bigger than Graceland or doing All You Need Is Love while beating Cynthia, his first wife.

Presley carrer move from March '60 to late '61 was brilliant, his first album "Elvis is Back" was far superior form anything recorded in the 50's, (FAR SUPERIOR TO BEATLES EARLY BUBBLE GUM ALBUMS '62 - '63) NO, it was not %100 rock and roll, but you got to grow as an artist, and he did it far beyond than any other 50's rocker.

Yes he did G.I. Blues a safe bet, and a little bit of a spoof, but it was a high quality production, and a big success, so what, you got assure your self in the business. Right away, Flaming Star, and Wild in The Country showed a development of his acting talents, if they didn't make a lot of money compared to G.I. BLues or the 50's ones, well oh well, they were not flops at all, it was transitorily period and still a good career step, on the other hands, the music he recorded through '60 and the first half of '61 was still a development of his musical talent, from His Hand in Mine, to the Feel So Bad and Little Sister singles, and the Something For Everybody album.

The shit started with Blue Hawaii, an illusory good step as it was a good movie and a multimillion maker, but then the easy formula appeared as a better choice to keep pushing Presley boundaries, here is were starts the crap. By '62 there is still a bunch some nice records, successful ones, and the movies, although already formulatic mass production were passable until Girls Girls Girls, but then it all went downhill for reasonss I don't need to explain.

So to me it was not the army, and the crap does not started with the army comback as people tend to easy think about it, Elvis was great as an artist and bigger than ever as a sales product from '60 to '62. The crap, and the obviously bad career moves came then. The '68 comback, the return to the memphis sound, contemporary rock music and live performances and touring should have occurred in '63 not '69. And keep insisting on dramatic roles once a year until something good happens.

Thats my view, but what do I know.

P.S. Lennon did died when Macca left the Beatles. Long live McCartney. LOL

[Cryogenic]

I don't think he should have continued with rock 'n' roll indefinitely, and it's pretty clear, reading between the lines, that Elvis didn't, either, speculating in at least one press interview that it may just be a phase. But, to put it mildly, Elvis was breaking new ground in the 50's -- not merely when he started, but right up until being drafted. Listen to the raucous melding of a no-holds-barred rock 'n' roll sensibility with a flamboyant New Orleans-style blues/jazz sound on "Hard Headed Woman", for instance, or the ultra-bold, high-octane feel of "I Need Your Love Tonight" and "A Big Hunk O' Love". Elvis continued to make breathless, vibrant music right under the shadow of Uncle Sam's rapidly-descending iron hand. Who knows what he might have made of the next 18 months the army swallowed wholesale? Or what direction his 60's career may have gone had he been riding on an unbroken wave, fresh on the heady triumph of a dominant new culture and four progressively-deeper motion pictures?

We are overlooking some critical things, out of Elvis' hands, though. The army may have made him more insular, causing his perceived dependence on The Colonel to grow, retreating somewhat behind a rapidly-expanding coterie of friends and hangers-on, but there were two further things, at least. One was highly personal to Elvis Presley himself: the death of his beloved mother. The other was critical to the future of rock 'n' roll itself: a series of incidents, from Jerry Lee Lewis' marriage to his 13-year-old cousin, Chuck Berry's prison sentence to the deaths of Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and The Big Bopper. The original rock 'n' roll movement was scuppered and could never be the same again. When Elvis emerged from the army, he, to my mind, took the next logical step -- blow up the pop field with a complete album of unprecedented salaciousness, a more or less outright assault on the unsuspecting masses (i.e. "Elvis Is Back!"). Did Lennon ever listen to "Reconsider Baby"? You have to wonder.

It is unfortunate Elvis changed. It is fortunate Elvis changed.

[Raised on Rock]

It is unfortunate Elvis changed. It is fortunate Elvis changed.

It is fortunate Elvis changed, it is unfortunate Elvis stopped changing after '62 and fall into an uncreative route of easy formula cheap cheesy products until '66.

It is fortunate Elvis wanted to change and expand beyond rock and roll and the musical movies, it is unfortunate he wasn´t enough sure of himself to do it, and relayed that much in other people decisions, hiding his fear in political correctness about the mediocrity of the safe formula.

After the Army rebirth, Elvis died when studio albums disappeared favoring tacky soundtracks and the touring was put on hold favoring a pointless movie career. The army didn´t killed Elvis, Hall Wallis did, and Col. Parker let it happen for a billion dollars.

But where was Elvis?

[Tommy]

wow, don't know you dont like his movies, I think they are the best, Elvis was happy and handsome in those movies, i wish he could go on his movies and he could live up to 100 yrs old, :) I absolutely love those songs in movies.

Give them another chance, please, :)

I do like Elvis' movies, some better than others. (y)

[Tommy]

After the Army rebirth, Elvis died when studio albums disappeared favoring tacky soundtracks and the touring was put on hold favoring a pointless movie career. The army didn´t killed Elvis, Hall Wallis did, and Col. Parker let it happen for a billion dollars.



I agree.(y)

[Brian]

From a certain point of view I suppose Lennon is correct
The rocker rebel Elvis that he loved had ceased to exist after he got out of the army. Elvis became an all around entertainer singing all types of music. I have no issue with John Lennon for his opinion the fact that he said it right after Elvis died was incredibly rude that's what I've got a problem with. it would be like Elvis saying Lennon died after the Beatles broke up right after Lennon had been pronounced dead it's just rude now if Lennon had waited awhile to give his opinion on Elvis music that would've been different.
Like Paul Simon mentioned after the news of Elvis death that he did stop liking Elvis music early on that's how you do it.

Lennon's opinion on Elvis is really a two way street as Elvis didn't like the Beatles psychedilac music found on the White Album, Magical mystery tour and Sgt Pepper and didn't even pay any attention to Lennon's solo stuff but did like the early Beatles records like ''I Saw her Standing There''

I'm always surprised that Elvis fans take John Lennon's comments all this seriously as several discussions over the years have taken place on Elvis message boards about Lennon's comments. Lennon was just a regular guy with an opinion his opinions don't matter anymore than anyone else his words are not to be taken as the absolute gospel.

For the record people like B.B. King and Robert Plant are just two of the many people who disagree with Lennon.

P.S. I do think it would've have been good to see Elvis cut more rock music

[Brian]

I voted for Elvis' Rock'n'Roll style died in the army. Interestingly I just read an article by David Seaton and there was a passage which I think sums it up pretty well:



In fact it was the Colonel who decided that Elvis' career would take this turn of events and I don't think it was for the better.

I don't agree with the article

Saying the fat over the hill drugged up Elvis was born when he was drafted into the army is ridiculous.

Most of the time when people write articles about Elvis they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

[rocknroll]

Wow, I guess I'm not totally surprised by the poll results so far considering Elvis walked on water for many on here.

However, looking at it from a somewhat unbiased view, and within the context of the options given, you would definately have to say for a good 5+ year period Elvis WASTED his talent.

Why else would you need a "comeback"?

And for someone to say, despite all reports to the contrary, that Elvis was healthy and happy making those movies in the '60's REALLY boggles the mind.

[Raised on Rock]

Wow, I guess I'm not totally surprised by the poll results so far considering Elvis walked on water for many on here.

However, looking at it from a somewhat unbiased view, and within the context of the options given, you would definately have to say for a good 5+ year period Elvis WASTED his talent.

Why else would you need a "comeback"?

And for someone to say, despite all reports to the contrary, that Elvis was healthy and happy making those movies in the '60's REALLY boggles the mind.

Seems that Elvis was happy and healthy until Blue Hawaii, then it was just healthy for one more year until Girls Girls Girls, after that its quite clear the magic was long gone, same as in the late 70's concerts, he just looked plain bored, the sparkle you saw in his face on GI Blues was long gone by Viva las Vegas. Paradaise Hawaiian Style? Clambake? he was killing himself.

Yes it is fair to say Elvis wasted the best years of his career doing the clam.

The point to me is, the army had nothing to do with it except for the fact that it might made him quite insecure and isolated when he returned, but the dead of his mother, the amount of lechers and con mans around, and more than anything, a mafia and not the memphis one, but the Hollywood one that saw on Elvis easy big money by exploiting the fame Elvis, the one Elvis won due to his talent and hard work are much more to blame.

It was easy for Lennon to blame the army as he was pretty much into his anti vietnam phony attitude, so one more thing against the army right? but Lennon's opinion was pretty short minded, he should know better how the business work, and, as I said it before, didn't Lennon also quit rock music and sideburns for puppy ballads and a suit in '62? Yet Lennon didn´t quit quality, Hollywood made Elvis quit on that, not the army, as his '60-'61 work does prove it.

P.S. Elvis did walked on water and also knew how to stop the rain.

[dstrattenfan]

I don't agree with the article

Saying the fat over the hill drugged up Elvis was born when he was drafted into the army is ridiculous.

Most of the time when people write articles about Elvis they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

AMEN.....:angry:

[Brian]

The whole notion that Elvis no longer rocked when he got out of the army is also ridiculous

Elvis cut songs like ''Make me know it'' which is an early 60's pop rocker
Girl Next Door Went A Walkin is like an early example of a mersey beat rocker
Such a Night, Mess of Blues, Dirty Dirty Feeling are also uptempo roots oriented material.

Hard hitting blues like I Feels so bad, Reconsider baby, Like a baby
Then you have more rockers or roots oriented material like ''I want you with me'', Put the blame on me, Night Rider, Gonna Get back home Somehow

Then singles like the double sided classic (Marie's the name) His Latest Flame/Little Sister and Return to Sender along with (Your'e the) Devil in Disguise.

most of these rock n' roll songs I've listed have more of a mellow pop rock sound to them as opposed to the 50's rock n' roll he did but the whole music sound had changed to a more mellow pop oriented sound in the early 60's with artists like Bobby Vee, Fabian, The Shirelles, Jan and Dean etc.
you've got to change with the times and that's what Elvis did during this time.

[Dino78]

True "Rock'n'Roll" died when Elvis went into the Army.No doubt about that.

You are right with that verdict but when you reduce it only on Elvis disappearing then you hit too short. It needed more than Elvis' army days to let the god ol' RnR die. Chuck Berry was in jail, wasn't he? - Jerry Lee Lewis had married his 13-years-old cousin and was banned - Little Richard tried to escape from the taxman - later Buddy Holly died - ... .
You have to take these points together to find why RnR died. And not to mention that the unwritten rule in music business is: an actual hip style will last about 5 years before it becomes too comercial and has to die.


When I read the headline of this thread a statement by George Harrison enters my mind:
He was asked if he believes in rebirth and his answer was: "I'm sure John believes in!" Sure Lennon was right that ELvis died in a way - the same way The Beatles died when they start to take drugs, stopped touring and finally when the split was growing. There is always something dying. There are always some supporters who don't want to follow or accept.

[The Welz]

The quote that Elvis had died when he went to the army is one of the most stupid things one ever said about Elvis. First, Elvis wasn't a rocker. He always preferred gospels and balads to rock'n roll. The second thing is, that a person changes over the years and it would have been strange, if Elvis would have been on stage with Scotty Moore and DJ Fontana in the 1970s and doing what he did twenty years ago. Of cause he changed like everybody of us does. When I was twenty my taste was different (except the music of Elvis). I acted different, looked different and thought different. I believe that Elvis would have changed his style once again if he did not die. Does anyone believe he would have worn the jumsuits in the 1980s and 1990s? So it is stupid to say he died when he went to the army. John Lennon didn't die, too when he left the Beatles, grew a beard or wrote Imagine (which is quite different to Love Me Do).

[easyrider]

Elvis Changed Style

[KPM]

Lennon wanted Elvis to be-"The Elvis he fell in love with"... the rocker, the
controversial singer who changed things in music. Just as many wanted Lennon to always be what they perceived "he represented in the Beatles"
It is unrealistic to want someone to stay as you think they are and think they should be.
Lennon talked to a fan in a film I saw- who was more or less stalking him outside his home. He gave him something to eat and then asked him what he wanted-and the guy told him his love of the songs and the meanings this guy was getting from them-
Lennon (paraphrasing) told him that he was just writing songs that were about what he was feeling, what he was going thru at the times he wrote them-and that he was not writing any special meanings to anyone or for any other reason.............yet this man acted as thought Lennon was some kind of prophet or seer.
Elvis wanted to continue on with making "music" not any certain style... rock, gospel, pop, country...... and become an actor. I think he may have thought that when the rock craze died he would be established in film and that might be his future.
As I have pointed out in the past-thats the pattern for great singers and Elvis knew this as well.
Lennon himself became a "househusband of sorts" for a few years, learned to make bread, cook and only played and wrote when he felt like it....does this sound like the revolutionary guy many see his as today?......he changed he evolved and for many it was not what they wanted or expected. Same with Elvis.

[ForeverTheKing]

I voted the last one (y)
Sure Elvis changed a lot after the army and stopped the Rock 'n Roll he sang before.
Anyway I don't conseider that choice a death but something positive for him.
His voice was different at that time and it got mature.
I think it would have been strange to sing rock 'n roll till the end....a good choice for his career to reach a more mature audience...adults started to appreciate him and his voice and followed him till the end (y)

[SleepyJack]

I stared at those choices for a very long time...and even now I`m not sure I agree with myself!.... I went with Elvis` Rock`n`Roll style dying in the army......
I don`t deny that artists and musicians need to change and adapt if they are to have long and successful careers... for me the waste was in the style that replaced the Rockin` Rebel Elvis...the tame,clean-cut movie star and the "safe" albums..... in some ways that was singing to a dog all over again... tamed and controlled. With Elvis` talent he could have had a very successful career in the `60s.... if they had let him just be himself. Elvis was a natural when it came to music,music came to him as easily as football to Pele or playing the guitar came to Eric Clapton.... he would have found his place again..just like he did the first time. The blame lies in so many factors that it is almost impossible to discuss this anymore without chasing your own tail. Without Parker and his "deals",with a better record company, without the shiny happy movies..... Elvis had the talent and the natural ability to succeed in any era. I still think Elvis could have learned much more about music and his place in it had he spent more time at Sun Records with Sam Philips.... one of the few in the Elvis story that understood the importance of the music.

[Getlo]

Lennon was spot on.

The real Elvis - the one who changed the world, the one who brought us rock'n'roll, the one who was a musical supernova - absolutely died the second he went into the army.

The Elvis that emerged in 1960 just wasn't the same.

Ever again.

[Miss Clawdy]

I don't agree with the article

Saying the fat over the hill drugged up Elvis was born when he was drafted into the army is ridiculous.

Most of the time when people write articles about Elvis they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

As you choose this part of the article to disagree with, I assume you agree with the part that the real Elvis died in the army.

Here is a quote I copied from an article KPM posted in another thread which maybe makes it more clear to you.

“The Colonel would’ve loved if Elvis could have been Bing Crosby,” says Schilling. “Because then he could’ve done Christmas specials and sung nice songs. But Elvis was James Dean and a rebel. And that was part of the frustration, too.”

This is what I am trying to say, before the army Elvis was James Dean and after the army thanks to the Colonel, Elvis became Bing Crosby.

[Brian]

As you choose this part of the article to disagree with, I assume you agree with the part that the real Elvis died in the army.

Here is a quote I copied from an article KPM posted in another thread which maybe makes it more clear to you.

“The Colonel would’ve loved if Elvis could have been Bing Crosby,” says Schilling. “Because then he could’ve done Christmas specials and sung nice songs. But Elvis was James Dean and a rebel. And that was part of the frustration, too.”

This is what I am trying to say, before the army Elvis was James Dean and after the army thanks to the Colonel, Elvis became Bing Crosby.

No, I don't agree with that either

Elvis always liked and sang different types of music even in the Fiffties
and while I agree that Elvis didn't perform rock n' roll as much in the early 60's as he did in 54-58 he was still performing rock n' roll songs. Even though the 60's Elvis was different from the 50's he was still a long way away from Bing Crosby. I think what Jerry Schilling was trying to say was Colonel Parker would've understood Bing Crosby better musically than Elvis and would've have loved it if Elvis were a similar artist to Bing Crosby but didn't say Elvis became Bing Crosby or like Crosby.
I don't really think Elvis changing musical styles had much to do with the Colonel it was just because he had matured a little bit musically and wanted to record a different variety of styles as opposed to rock n' roll all the time. Then when the Beatles came in 1964 and you had singers like Bob Dylan emerge songwriters began performing their own stuff then it became harder for a non songwriter like Elvis to find good rockers to record that wasn't the case in the 50's and early 60's. Also Elvis liked recording songs that would showcase his voice like What now my love and it's Over, Surrender, It's Now or Never etc. So the change in musical style came about because of Elvis own desires and changing times in the music industry.

[KPM]

Lennon was spot on.

The real Elvis - the one who changed the world, the one who brought us rock'n'roll, the one who was a musical supernova - absolutely died the second he went into the army.

The Elvis that emerged in 1960 just wasn't the same.

Ever again.
I would respectfully disagree-Lennon saw a revolutionary in Elvis-"a rebel with a cause"
I agree Elvis did change the world, he did bring rock'n'roll, and he was a supernova musically-but it was not planned, not a vision he had seen and wanted to make reality. True leaders of a revolution set out to do so. Thats what IMO Lennon thought Elvis was-and he just was not that person.
He wanted to make music-music he liked and cared for. Luckily Elvis liked most all styles and he mixed them up-in innocence of revolutionary thought. Sam Phillips said Elvis wanted at first to sing Dean Martin ballads or forgotten old blues and country songs-what did he record when he got out of the Army a mixture of italian spiced ballads and blues with a few rockers thrown in-to me thats the person who walked into Sam Phillips Sun studios.
Lennon saw the 1960 Elvis as a "sellout" who gave up the revolution, when in fact he never was that person. He was a singer who wanted to sing. just my opinion.:blush:

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Maybe the Elvis that died after the army was the Elvis Lennon liked but that doesn't mean he didn't sing great songs after that. It would be like saying Lennon died after he left the Beatles... his fans wouldn't agree with this either, they just changed styles.

Absolutely, Elvis was a beacon of light for would be musicians, so when he become main stream I suppose there would have been an element of disappointment..


...I have no issue with John Lennon for his opinion the fact that he said it right after Elvis died was incredibly rude that's what I've got a problem with.

When Lennon was shot, Paul McCartney just said "Bummer"


I'm always surprised that Elvis fans take John Lennon's comments all this seriously as several discussions over the years have taken place on Elvis message boards about Lennon's comments. Lennon was just a regular guy with an opinion his opinions don't matter anymore than anyone else his words are not to be taken as the absolute gospel.

I certainly don't take it seriously, although, Lennon happens to be a big name in pop and his comments warrant discussion. Lennon's opinion carries weight because whether we like it or not, there is an element of truth to what he said.


The quote that Elvis had died when he went to the army is one of the most stupid things one ever said about Elvis.

Perhaps, however, the comment was probably just some flippant statement made by Lennon when asked his thoughts on Elvis' death! I doubt Lennon thought that this of the cuff remark would have taken on a life of it's own.


Lennon was spot on.

The real Elvis - the one who changed the world, the one who brought us rock'n'roll, the one who was a musical supernova - absolutely died the second he went into the army.

The Elvis that emerged in 1960 just wasn't the same.

Ever again.

The pre-army material was ground breaking, vibrant and relevant. Post Army era it would be at least 9 years before he pushed the envelope with songs like Suspicious Minds and In The Ghetto. Although not on the same scale as the 50's I still see this as a brief glimpse of Elvis being relevant.

[Getlo]

Lennon saw the 1960 Elvis as a "sellout" who gave up the revolution

He may have seen Elvis like that, although I don't think his comment about the real Elvis dying when he went into the army apportions any blame to Elvis.

I take it to mean that Lennon believed that the army - ie the establishment, conservatism, call it what you will - tamed the beast that was the "rebel" Elvis.

And it did. In spades.

While I don't believe Elvis ever deserved special treatment when it came to army duty, I think that his drafting was the worst thing that ever happened to him, career-wise. He should never have been called up.

[Brian]

He may have seen Elvis like that, although I don't think his comment about the real Elvis dying when he went into the army apportions any blame to Elvis.

I take it to mean that Lennon believed that the army - ie the establishment, conservatism, call it what you will - tamed the beast that was the "rebel" Elvis.

And it did. In spades.

While I don't believe Elvis ever deserved special treatment when it came to army duty, I think that his drafting was the worst thing that ever happened to him, career-wise. He should never have been called up.


I always thought that was a little unusual that Elvis didn't use his celebrity to get out of serving. I suppose if he did though he would've been accused by some of pulling a star trip and that could have hurt his career a little bit.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Prior to the army Elvis made films like King Creole, Jailhouse Rock & Loving You, once out of the army he did G.I. Blues, although a good film it didn't have the edge of the 50's stuff but was a great success and so the formula began.

[KPM]

He may have seen Elvis like that, although I don't think his comment about the real Elvis dying when he went into the army apportions any blame to Elvis.

I take it to mean that Lennon believed that the army - ie the establishment, conservatism, call it what you will - tamed the beast that was the "rebel" Elvis.And it did. In spades.

While I don't believe Elvis ever deserved special treatment when it came to army duty, I think that his drafting was the worst thing that ever happened to him, career-wise. He should never have been called up.
Elvis did not like the controversy nor the attacks on him for his music-he wanted to be respected by all. He got that by serving and not taking an easy out.
I see what you are saying about taming the beast-I just think "the image of rebel Elvis" was something thrust upon him by others and was not really who he was. If Elvis had thrown his service medals and uniform in the Mississippi-denounced the military.... that would have been the rebel Lennon saw in the 56 Elvis.
Lennon for sure saw him as a rebel leading the way-when he was truely just a singer singing who sparked controversy...... the rebel brand by Lennon was his view projected. IMO

[Brian]

I certainly don't take it seriously, although, Lennon happens to be a big name in pop and his comments warrant discussion. Lennon's opinion carries weight because whether we like it or not, there is an element of truth to what he said.








Well people discuss John Lennon's comments all the time but they never discuss B.B. King's comments.

B.B. King says to him Elvis was still growing as an artist even at the end of his life.

It's really just how you look at it, it's really just a matter of opinion.

Lennon's comments don't matter anymore than B.B. King's but music journalist have debated and written articles about Lennon's comments and have asked the question did Elvis die in the army? where B.B King's comments haven't even been mentioned.

I don't agree with either comment even though Elvis cut the song Moody Blue which I like and did a good cover of She thinks I Still Care I don't think he was cutting very good material in 1976.

Elvis continued to be relevant after the army not to Lennon but to many people. I think Elvis was the most dominant artist of 1956-1960 and from 1960-1964.

Speaking of John Lennon his song Imagine gets a lot praise and is always on these best of lists and greatest of all time lists which I think is unfair because I think the song is just average. Elvis song If I can dream is very similar but doesn't get as much press and isn't as well known. I think If I can Dream is far from being Elvis best song but since Imagine gets so much praise then If I can Dream should get more since they are so similar.

[KPM]

Prior to the army Elvis made films like King Creole, Jailhouse Rock & Loving You, once out of the army he did G.I. Blues, although a good film it didn't have the edge of the 50's stuff but was a great success and so the formula began.
Someone decided the image put out in King Creole, Jailhouse Rock etc was not the image wanted in the 1960s. Perhaps we are forgetting those days, when rock was new..... 25 was looked at as getting old-and 30 was almost aged. Rock was then a teenage music-and 25 was moving away from teenage years.
In 1960 I think the young adult image was very different than we know it today. Today you can be in your 60s and its okay to play rock and hold the rock image/lifestyle.

But that said-the movies could have been more adult after GI Blues instead of the fluff that started with Blue Hawaii.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

B.B. King says to him Elvis was still growing as an artist even at the end of his life.
......Elvis cut the song Moody Blue which I like and did a good cover of She thinks I Still Care I don't think he was cutting very good material in 1976.

I don't wish to be rude but those songs are no more cutting edge any more than 'Promised Land' or 'If You Talk In Your Sleep'. They could be classed as good for Elvis in that particular period but I would suggest that Elvis was hardly growing as an artist up until he died.



Someone decided the image put out in King Creole, Jailhouse Rock etc was not the image wanted in the 1960s. Perhaps we are forgetting those days, when rock was new..... 25 was looked at as getting old-and 30 was almost aged. Rock was then a teenage music-and 25 was moving away from teenage years.
In 1960 I think the young adult image was very different than we know it today. Today you can be in your 60s and its okay to play rock and hold the rock image/lifestyle.

But that said-the movies could have been more adult after GI Blues instead of the fluff that started with Blue Hawaii.

I agree, but there were films being made that were more hard core than Elvis was making, they obviously thought Elvis was lightweight..

[KPM]

I don't wish to be rude but those songs are no more cutting edge any more than 'Promised Land' or 'If You Talk In Your Sleep'. They could be classed as good for Elvis in that particular period but I would suggest that Elvis was hardly growing as an artist up until he died.





I agree, but there were films being made that were more hard core than Elvis was making, they obviously thought Elvis was lightweight..

Actually I don't think people like Hal Wallis gave Elvis a thought as an actor-lightweight heavyweight etc...I do not think it crossed his mind at all. I think he saw money to be made and the vehicle that made the most money (for the least investment) was all he worried about. But some in the movie business did see the potential from Elvis-they were willing to give him the shot and help him grow as an actor by offering some of the roles which we've talked of. But Wallis said he never signed Elvis "the next James Dean", he signed "the singer" I just really believe Elvis did not understand this-and no one made an effort to make him understand this. Its not a new story-Hollywood is known for abusing talent-until the last dollar is made.
Wallis did the same thing to Martin and Lewis except they rebelled after a few years and went on strike until Wallis would talk to them about better scripts and more input.
Elvis was not born into show biz like Jerry Lewis and was not street wise and tough like Dean Martin...Colonel Parker stressed honoring your contracts and Elvis did not demand, nor strike.

[Brian]

I don't wish to be rude but those songs are no more cutting edge any more than 'Promised Land' or 'If You Talk In Your Sleep'. They could be classed as good for Elvis in that particular period but I would suggest that Elvis was hardly growing as an artist up until he died.






That's what I'm saying I don't agree with B.B. King's comments even though
to me Moody Blue and She thinks I Still Care are goods songs Elvis wasn't growing as an artist in 1976 imo.

I would say some of the Stax material was more cutting edge than the Jungleroom sessions. Songs like ''If you talk in your Sleep'' and ''I've got a feeling in my Body'' shows Elvis doing funky R&B which is something he rarely if ever did. I would describe ''I've got a feeling in my body'' as Elvis doing a Curtis Mayfield superfly type song and I also like ''Find out what's happening''
Elvis should've done more R&B and blues imo.

[elvisfan92]

We will never know what could have transpired if the Army had not called him duty. I do believe the movies was all wrong for him, even though it gave him security that he evidently needed and wanted. The movies moguls never really gave him the chance to act, and then the Army interrupted the movie career.

I believe his music would have changed from 1955-57 as he developed.

Elvis sort of died one way like John Lennon commented, Elvis got caught up in Col. Parkers advice I suppose.

Elvis finally broke out of it all and in 1968 brought him back to us all with a bang!! Wow how great he was again.

Elvis never really lost his appeal, it was always right there waiting to explode again!



WELL SAID Tommy (y):D

[Brian]

Actually I don't think people like Hal Wallis gave Elvis a thought as an actor-lightweight heavyweight etc...I do not think it crossed his mind at all. I think he saw money to be made and the vehicle that made the most money (for the least investment) was all he worried about. But some in the movie business did see the potential from Elvis-they were willing to give him the shot and help him grow as an actor by offering some of the roles which we've talked of. But Wallis said he never signed Elvis "the next James Dean", he signed "the singer" I just really believe Elvis did not understand this-and no one made an effort to make him understand this. Its not a new story-Hollywood is known for abusing talent-until the last dollar is made.
.

I think he began to understand

Story goes that while watching the movie Becket at the Memphian theatre in 1964 Elvis turned the movie off halfway through and was mad at Hal Wallis for producing quality artistic pictures with Burton and O'Toole while producing lightweight musicals with him and then using the profits from those musicals to produce the quality prestige films that he wanted.
Elvis was so mad at Wallis he cursed him and then went to the Colonel and told him when the movie contracts run out don't make anymore deals for anymore movies because I'm not signing the contract.
unfortunately this was 1964 and his contracts didn't run out until 1968.
The worst movies he made were in the period of 1965-1967

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I think he began to understand

Story goes that while watching the movie Becket at the Memphian theatre in 1964 Elvis turned the movie off halfway through and was mad at Hal Wallis for producing quality artistic pictures with Burton and O'Toole while producing lightweight musicals with him and then using the profits from those musicals to produce the quality prestige films that he wanted.
Elvis was so mad at Wallis he cursed him and then went to the Colonel and told him when the movie contracts run out don't make anymore deals for anymore movies because I'm not signing the contract.
unfortunately this was 1964 and his contracts didn't run out until 1968.
The worst movies he made were in the period of 1965-1967

Oh how times have changed these days, most artist view their contract with disdain and stick two fingers up at the studio's.

[KPM]

Oh how times have changed these days, most artist view their contract with disdain and stick two fingers up at the studio's.
You are correct there-:):):)