Elvis missed opportunities?

[Brian]

Hi everyone

I was inspired to start this thread after seeing a similar one on another board.

Some fans believe Elvis had a lot of missed opportunities in his career while other do not.
Me personally I don't really think he had that many but he did have a few.

To me the biggest was the decision to stop making and releasing studio albums after Pot Luck in 1962.

i consider this a missed opportunity because I think all of Elvis studio albums made during the 60's were good and to think Elvis didn't release any in 63,64,65,66. We probably missed out on some quailty recordings when all Elvis did was work on soundtracks.

I was listening to From Nashville to Memphis box set and realized that there was a lot of good music on there and I think Elvis could've created more if he put out more studio albums and concentrated more on his music from 1963-1967.

Do you guys think Elvis had any missed opportunities in his career?
If so what were they and in your opinion what was the biggest?

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I agree with what you have said above, Elvis' voice during 62-67 had a real smooth edged sound to it. You don't have to look hard to find some great numbers from the movies and some silly ones, guilty pleasures as I like to call them..

As great as the 70's were in terms of 1970-73, there are milestones in the form of 'TTWII', 'Elvis On Tour' and of course 'Aloha', there just seems to be too little in the way of cutting edge music from Elvis like he recorded in 1969 e.g. 'Suspicious Minds', 'In The Ghetto' & 'I'm Movin' On'. It seems Elvis cracked Vegas and then he backed off and settled for a career in middle of the road music.

I'm sure people will point to the power ballads such 'American Trilogy', 'You Gave Me A Mountain' & 'Unchained Melody' which became live standards. I suppose you could point to 'Burning Love' but there is little else from 1969 onwards that would say that Elvis was still pushing bounderies and a relevant force in music. Don't get me wrong I love the 70's music era, I just believe Elvis did enough to forfill his contracts and steered to the middle of the road with material that didn't challenge him.

As the 70's progress Elvis lacked the will to go to the recording studio and it shows in some of the songs he recorded, a big barrier was the fact that the Colonel wanted a cut from the music rights, this lead to poor material being recorded. It would have been great if Elvis just recorded a couple of kick *** tracks per album and took no music rights.

Elvis needed to be challenged or more to the point pushed by others to achieve great things, Elvis had the talent and provided the voice, the Colonel just didn't take risks, he settled for long term contracts. It was down to people like Chips Moman and Steve Binder to focus Elvis' skills, after 68-69 the Colonel made sure that no-one got near his boy, this lead to a slow death both musically and physically, the Colonel either intentionally or unintentionally starved Elvis of any fresh creativity. It could have been so different, there could have been all manner of people who would have directed or collaberated with Elvis and they were absolutely no threat to the Colonel.

[LianaKaralivanou]

Another missed opportunity was when Elvis refused to play with Barbara Streisand in the movie "A star is born" although some may think that it wasn't a very good film after all. I know that at first Elvis was thrilled in the idea of playing such a role besides Streisand but the Colonel had a different point of view and eventually Elvis turned it down.

[hounddog]

a world tour, if not a world then a tour outside of the US

[Getlo]

Another missed opportunity was when Elvis refused to play with Barbara Streisand in the movie "A star is born" although some may think that it wasn't a very good film after all.

An abysmal film by any stretch of the imagination; and it would have given Elvis no credibility whatsoever.

[SleepyJack]

I think there were a lot of missed opportunities in Elvis` life and career..... but I`m not about to start making a list...so here`s one that I`ve always wished had gone differently....
Ithink it would have been great had Elvis worked more with Jerry Reed. I think that bringing Jerry in to play on "Guitar Man" could have been the beginning of a very successful pairing,even if only for one or two albums.Jerry`s songs suit Elvis really well...and that country blues sound has to be one of my favourites of the Elvis "sounds".... just a thought...there it is!

[dj_ethan]

Another missed opportunity was when Elvis Don't Play In Macadam Cowboy Aka(Midnight Cowboy)...SAD

YouTube - Harry Nilsson - Everybody's Talkin' (1969)

[EnigmaticSun]

Hmm, not getting rid of Parker perhaps.

[medleyofcostumes]

As stated earlier, there were many lost opportunities. I would say the following were the most seriously missed ones:

1. Despite many 'hot' arguments with Tom Parker, EP wrongly kept him as manager. He should have changed management after 1973.

2. Around May 1976, some people around Elvis (including Priscilla) tried to get him into Detox. EP refused.

3. 19 August 1974 Opening Show - Elvis revolutionised his setlist omitting the 2001 theme, See See Rider, I Got A Woman and introducing Down in the Alley, Good Time Charlie's Got tHe Blues, Promised Land, etc. The audience gave Elvis a so-so reception and thus from the very next show he reverted to the 'old' show.

4. Not doing his best to keep Linda Thompson by his side

[rocknroll]

Agree on a tour outside the U.S. in the '70's. Also:

Suspicion
Memphis, Tenn.

Two potential top tens.

[Jungleroom76]

As stated earlier, there were many lost opportunities. I would say the following were the most seriously missed ones:

1. Despite many 'hot' arguments with Tom Parker, EP wrongly kept him as manager. He should have changed management after 1973.

2. Around May 1976, some people around Elvis (including Priscilla) tried to get him into Detox. EP refused.

3. 19 August 1974 Opening Show - Elvis revolutionised his setlist omitting the 2001 theme, See See Rider, I Got A Woman and introducing Down in the Alley, Good Time Charlie's Got tHe Blues, Promised Land, etc. The audience gave Elvis a so-so reception and thus from the very next show he reverted to the 'old' show.

4. Not doing his best to keep Linda Thompson by his side

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT MEDLEY!!! :notworthy

Add the aforementioned need for a world tour and you've got 5 of the biggest missed opportunities in Elvis' life/career I think!!! :hmm:

TCB!
Mike

[ForeverTheKing]

I think he missed a lot of opportunities in his career and this because of the fact he never "faced" The Colonel enough...a tour world wide, some great movies and many others (y)

[Brian]

I agree with what you have said above, Elvis' voice during 62-67 had a real smooth edged sound to it. You don't have to look hard to find some great numbers from the movies and some silly ones, guilty pleasures as I like to call them..

As great as the 70's were in terms of 1970-73, there are milestones in the form of 'TTWII', 'Elvis On Tour' and of course 'Aloha', there just seems to be too little in the way of cutting edge music from Elvis like he recorded in 1969 e.g. 'Suspicious Minds', 'In The Ghetto' & 'I'm Movin' On'. It seems Elvis cracked Vegas and then he backed off and settled for a career in middle of the road music.

I'm sure people will point to the power ballads such 'American Trilogy', 'You Gave Me A Mountain' & 'Unchained Melody' which became live standards. I suppose you could point to 'Burning Love' but there is little else from 1969 onwards that would say that Elvis was still pushing bounderies and a relevant force in music. Don't get me wrong I love the 70's music era, I just believe Elvis did enough to forfill his contracts and steered to the middle of the road with material that didn't challenge him.

As the 70's progress Elvis lacked the will to go to the recording studio and it shows in some of the songs he recorded, a big barrier was the fact that the Colonel wanted a cut from the music rights, this lead to poor material being recorded. It would have been great if Elvis just recorded a couple of kick *** tracks per album and took no music rights.

Elvis needed to be challenged or more to the point pushed by others to achieve great things, Elvis had the talent and provided the voice, the Colonel just didn't take risks, he settled for long term contracts. It was down to people like Chips Moman and Steve Binder to focus Elvis' skills, after 68-69 the Colonel made sure that no-one got near his boy, this lead to a slow death both musically and physically, the Colonel either intentionally or unintentionally starved Elvis of any fresh creativity. It could have been so different, there could have been all manner of people who would have directed or collaberated with Elvis and they were absolutely no threat to the Colonel.

I think getting a piece of the publishing was a good idea in the begining because Elvis was the only star consistently having millon sellers so the Colonel saw that Elvis got some of them publishing for recording them.
but after 1964 music was changing and singer songwriters were emerging which made it harder for non songwriters like Elvis to get quality material.
So the policy should've been changed or modified after 1964.

Even though I really like the Nashville 1970 sessions no real hit material came out of those sessions so I think Elvis should've went back to American to record with Chips Moman one more time. B.J. Thomas recorded ''I just can't help believing'' at American in 1970 so maybe that song would've been Elvis had he went back there along with another good quality songs that would've been potential hits. Elvis needed contemporary hits as he was in the middle of a comeback and I think Chips could've provided that.

[RustyWells]

As stated earlier, there were many lost opportunities. I would say the following were the most seriously missed ones:

1. Despite many 'hot' arguments with Tom Parker, EP wrongly kept him as manager. He should have changed management after 1973.

2. Around May 1976, some people around Elvis (including Priscilla) tried to get him into Detox. EP refused.

3. 19 August 1974 Opening Show - Elvis revolutionised his setlist omitting the 2001 theme, See See Rider, I Got A Woman and introducing Down in the Alley, Good Time Charlie's Got tHe Blues, Promised Land, etc. The audience gave Elvis a so-so reception and thus from the very next show he reverted to the 'old' show.

4. Not doing his best to keep Linda Thompson by his side

I couldn't agree more, a world tour would have given him something to look forward to because at the end, from what I've read in books, he was getting bored with going to the same places and to the same concert halls...A change of scenery would have done him good.

It's also a shame that he didn't star in "A star is born" he would have been so good in that. Hollywood might have taken him more seriously and gave him a lot more meater roles, but of course Parker screwed that opportunity up

[elvisfan92]

Hmm, not getting rid of Parker perhaps.

So true i do believe that parker was hindering elvis' career that :cursing: sorry i just hate the man.

[Brian]

I couldn't agree more, a world tour would have given him something to look forward to because at the end, from what I've read in books, he was getting bored with going to the same places and to the same concert halls...A change of scenery would have done him good.

It's also a shame that he didn't star in "A star is born" he would have been so good in that. Hollywood might have taken him more seriously and gave him a lot more meater roles, but of course Parker screwed that opportunity up

Hello RustyWells

how are you?

I have a question

Have you ever seen Barbara Streisand's A Star is Born?

[shelley.m.]

To have played Canada in the early 70's.

[rickb]

A Star is Born would have given Elvis something new and prestigious at the time to break from the concert rut.
I agree that the film was far from a classic and would not necessarily have been a great result after the facvt for Elvis.
There were too many missed opportunities to mention, sadly caused by management that saw a $ as more important than reputation and personal satisfaction

[Getlo]

Another missed opportunity was when Elvis Don't Play In Macadam Cowboy Aka(Midnight Cowboy)...SAD

Elvis up against Dustin Hoffman in this flick? It would have been the kiss of death for the movie and you'd have never heard of it again.

As an actor, by the time this movie came out, Elvis Presley was a joke. Actually, his credibility as an actor had long since disapeared ...

[Getlo]

The greatest missed opportunity of Elvis' career was when he came out of the army.

The first recording sessions from 1960 were great or near-great. He was back on the charts with some fine material.

But then ... G.I.Blues.

Bad move. Singing to puppets. Puppets! The rock'n'roll rebel, although detoured by the army, was well and truly emasculated and reduced to being simply a product.

And then, the standard of the music fell. There's no question that the poor-quality movies had an affect on sales of things like Pot Luck, Something For Everybody etc (and poor promotion from RCA didn't help matters).

Had he been able to combine more great music with some decent movie roles, and occasional tours, then the 60s - and therefore his entire later career - would have been so much better and would have more credibility than they do today.

Sadly, films like Wild In The Country and Flaming Star didn't make as much money as his earlier flicks, or as much money as The Colonel wanted.

And remember: ultimately, it was up to Elvis himself to seize those opportunities, no one else.

[Brian]

A Star is Born would have given Elvis something new and prestigious at the time to break from the concert rut.
I agree that the film was far from a classic and would not necessarily have been a great result after the facvt for Elvis.
There were too many missed opportunities to mention, sadly caused by management that saw a $ as more important than reputation and personal satisfaction


He could've just taken a break from touring

I don't think there was really that many in Elvis career overall
some definately but missed opportunities happen to everyone

I could name other celebrities with more than Elvis

[utmom2008]

A Star is Born would have given Elvis something new and prestigious at the time to break from the concert rut.


The anticipation of starring in a prestigious movie may have seemed exciting to Elvis at the time, but IMO once the movie came out he would have fallen into a deeper depressing slump than he was already in. IMO the Hollywood movie critics would have had a field day with Elvis' performance, I think they would have made a mockery of him.

And.....I never could visualize any chemistry between Elvis and Streisand.:blink:

[Merry]

Nahhhhh, there is too much negativity around, and really, not something that people should get involved in, or think *about.

The world is full of possibilities, and blessings. "Law of Attraction".

Appreciation of what is around, and of whom we love. It's to be grabbed and played with, lol.
((((((())))))) ;)

Elvis lived a full life, a wonderful life. We appreciate what we have, what we've done, (including how we have been honoured and appreciated by our peers) what we've learned, knowing that that is what gives us a full life... :king: :hug:

Oh, plus horses and dogs, lol. :D:lmfao:

[KPM]

I liked "A Star is Born" I saw it when it came out it played for a month in my town and it did good business around the world, it won some awards and the soundtrack was a hit-without Elvis. What changes would that type of success done to Elvis's film standing, and his ego-his desire to act?(which by 1969 had been killed by the films he had been contracted to make)
I have said this in the past-It was an opportunity for Elvis to make a step up in film roles, even people who dislike the movie have to see it was a huge leap up from-Spinout, Speedway etc......
I have also said that Elvis in the publics eye may not have been taken seriously as an actor but when he was considered for such roles as this-it shows some of the people who made films saw him differently. You don't spend millions on a project and offer a role to someone who may not be able to deliver the goods. There were some producers and directors who thought Elvis could deliver and thats proof for me.
I know many don't see it this way-but I do.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I liked "A Star is Born" I saw it when it came out it played for a month in my town and it did good business around the world, it won some awards and the soundtrack was a hit-without Elvis. What changes would that type of success done to Elvis's film standing, and his ego-his desire to act?(which by 1969 had been killed by the films he had been contracted to make)
I have said this in the past-It was an opportunity for Elvis to make a step up in film roles, even people who dislike the movie have to see it was a huge leap up from-Spinout, Speedway etc......
I have also said that Elvis in the publics eye may not have been taken seriously as an actor but when he was considered for such roles as this-it shows some of the people who made films saw him differently. You don't spend millions on a project and offer a role to someone who may not be able to deliver the goods. There were some producers and directors who thought Elvis could deliver and thats proof for me.
I know many don't see it this way-but I do.

I agree 100%

[Brian]

I liked "A Star is Born" I saw it when it came out it played for a month in my town and it did good business around the world, it won some awards and the soundtrack was a hit-without Elvis. What changes would that type of success done to Elvis's film standing, and his ego-his desire to act?(which by 1969 had been killed by the films he had been contracted to make)
I have said this in the past-It was an opportunity for Elvis to make a step up in film roles, even people who dislike the movie have to see it was a huge leap up from-Spinout, Speedway etc......
I have also said that Elvis in the publics eye may not have been taken seriously as an actor but when he was considered for such roles as this-it shows some of the people who made films saw him differently. You don't spend millions on a project and offer a role to someone who may not be able to deliver the goods. There were some producers and directors who thought Elvis could deliver and thats proof for me.
I know many don't see it this way-but I do.

I think the role would've been a step up from Clambake and Speedway because it was a more mature role, Elvis would've been playing an adult instead of a teenager in those teenbooper films but as for the quality of A Star is Born is no better than some of Elvis worst films imo.
I disagree when everybody says this is the role that would've gave Elvis credibility as an actor in the same way From Here to Eternity did for Sinatra.
Elvis always wanted to make movies where he wouldn't have to sing or play a singer. playing a hasbeen drugged up singer in 1976 wouldn't have been that much of a stretch just like Elvis in Gi blues or Loving you he was always playing a variation of himself I wish Elvis could've played a policeman or teacher. I do think Elvis should've done the film to get into shape and for financial reasons. Elvis was offered 10% of the gross of the film and A Star is born grossed 70 million worldwide so that would've been 7 million bucks.

[KPM]

I think the role would've been a step up from Clambake and Speedway because it was a more mature role, Elvis would've been playing an adult instead of a teenager in those teenbooper films but as for the quality of A Star is Born is no better than some of Elvis worst films imo.
I disagree when everybody says this is the role that would've gave Elvis credibility as an actor in the same way From Here to Eternity did for Sinatra.
Elvis always wanted to make movies where he wouldn't have to sing or play a singer. playing a hasbeen drugged up singer in 1976 wouldn't have been that much of a stretch just like Elvis in Gi blues or Loving you he was always playing a variation of himself I wish Elvis could've played a policeman or teacher. I do think Elvis should've done the film to get into shape and for financial reasons. Elvis was offered 10% of the gross of the film and A Star is born grossed 70 million worldwide so that would've been 7 million bucks.
Then count me in as one of those you disagree with!
There is no way to know how Elvis would have played the role-how he would have been accepted in the part by the public and how the overall movie would have been changed with him in the role. So there is at least a 50/50 chance he would have been taken serious as an actor. The movie itself carried weight just by the title and what it had meant in the past-people expected a serious movie.
You say playing a hasbeen drugged up singer would not have been a stretch-you say this looking back with over 30 plus years of knowledge about his life... but in 1976, to most of the public it would have been a stretch-it would have been a 360% turn from any other role he had ever played. Elvis never smoked pot before a roadrace in Spinout, he never played a character who even drank alcohol-360% turnabouts attract attention and many times praise for the effort. Thats the way I see it-unless the movie had totally flopped and made no money, got no recognition-the turnabout in the character he was playing would have been a good thing for him as an actor.
Men need meat now and then to grow, to feel strong and on top-not just fluffy desserts.

[Brian]

Then count me in as one of those you disagree with!
There is no way to know how Elvis would have played the role-how he would have been accepted in the part by the public and how the overall movie would have been changed with him in the role. So there is at least a 50/50 chance he would have been taken serious as an actor. The movie itself carried weight just by the title and what it had meant in the past-people expected a serious movie.
You say playing a hasbeen drugged up singer would not have been a stretch-you say this looking back with over 30 plus years of knowledge about his life... but in 1976, to most of the public it would have been a stretch-it would have been a 360% turn from any other role he had ever played. Elvis never smoked pot before a roadrace in Spinout, he never played a character who even drank alcohol-360% turnabouts attract attention and many times praise for the effort. Thats the way I see it-unless the movie had totally flopped and made no money, got no recognition-the turnabout in the character he was playing would have been a good thing for him as an actor.
Men need meat now and then to grow, to feel strong and on top-not just fluffy desserts.


I think I can take a pretty good guess

The movie was all about Steisand so instead of the usual Elvis vehicle this movie was a star vehicle for her. Streisand took a lot of knocks from critics for playing the same character over and over again (similar to Elvis) and for not being believeable as a newcomer or rock star on the other hand she co-wrote the best song in the movie Evergreen which hit #1 and ended winning an oscar and was praised for being the first woman to produce a big hit film.
So good or bad the movie was all about Streisand and I believe her gigantic ego wouldn't have wanted to share any of the spotlight with Elvis.
As for Kris Kristofferson he was praised as being believeable as a drunk and drug addict but criticized for not being believeable as a rock star now this is one area where Elvis would have done better than him.

I think Elvis would've done good with the role had he taken it
he would've came off as believeable as a drunk and drug addict and as a rock star and I think the critics would've praised him somewhat for it but they probably would've then ended up saying he's still playing a rock star or a variation of himself as he plays a singer passed his prime.
I think the movie would've ended making at least a little more money with Elvis in it because he had more fans than Kristofferson did and I image his fans that didn't go to theaters to see this movie would've went to see it because he's in it.

As for Elvis being a hasbeen in 1976 maybe that's the wrong word
Elvis was still having top 40 hits and selling out concerts wherever he played but his career wasn't going anywhere at the time. He wasn't setting the music world on fire by having #1 hits and having big selling albums so his career was definately at a crossroads at this time.
Elvis did fit the media's definition of a hasbeen though remember Elvis is fat and 40 magazine covers in 1975 etc.

[TotallyInsane]

He wasn't setting the music world on fire by having #1 hits and having big selling albums so his career was definately at a crossroads at this time.


Maybe not, but it sure seems to me his music out lasted all of them put together!!!

[rickb]

it would be hard to get chemistry between Streisand and anyone so, in retrospect, I'm happy he didn't do the movie but as mentioned it would have been a break and a challenge at the time

[Getlo]

As for Elvis being a hasbeen in 1976 maybe that's the wrong word

Actually, that's spot on.

[EnigmaticSun]

Actually, that's spot on.

Wasn't he a "still am"? He was a mere babe even in '77. Even after dying, the music never stops. People simply can't stop loving it.

[Getlo]

Wasn't he a "still am"?

He was more a "still there" rather than a "still am".

Occasional minor chart success aside, he hadn't done anything truly relevant in years.

He was a touring act; and, at the end, a sad parody of himself and a rock star.

Michael Jackson is that man today, only to a far greater extent.

[Brian]

Another missed opportunity for Elvis I think was not going on a huge worldwide tour after the success of Aloha.

The Colonel came up with a great idea with Aloha from Hawaii and I think a huge world tour to build on it's success would have been a great idea to keep Elvis career momentum going. Elvis comeback period is regarded as starting with the 68 special and ending with Aloha as afterward he just played Vegas again and his career hit a slump and he didn't really do anything noteworthy after this time.

Elvis set attendance records all the time in the U.S. and you would think had he played overseas he would've at least set some more attendance records there and it would've satisfied his international fanbase not to mention the money the Colonel could've made off it.

Elvis touring most of the countries that saw Aloha plus England and a few additional countries: England, Ireland, France, German, Scotland, The Netherlands, Norway, Finland, Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Phillipines, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia.

This tour probably would've lasted 4-5 months and been a very ambitious project.

The only thing is I wonder if Elvis would've had the self discipline to complete such a tour, he did get stoned right after the Aloha concert.

These to me are Elvis 2 missed opportunities

not releasing studio albums regulary in the 60's and not going on a world tour right after Aloha

[Getlo]

The only thing is I wonder if Elvis would've had the self discipline to complete such a tour.

Wonder no more: the answer, sadly, is no.

[TotallyInsane]

Wonder no more: the answer, sadly, is no.

OK - I'm convinced Elvis is alive and his new name is Getlo!!! Is your dog named Elvis?? :D:D:D

[Brian]

Wonder no more: the answer, sadly, is no.

Yes, sadly, I think he would've had problems completing the tour too

It's like I was saying earlier in the Touring Australia thread

Colonel Parker, The Memphis Mafia, Priscilla, Lisa Marie and Elvis bandmates traveled all over the world but not Elvis. That to me is strange

Elvis bought the Lisa Marie Aiplane to tour Europe in 1975 but never went the plane ended up being sold and there are pictures of the plane in Switzerland from 1980 or 1981. It went without him

When Priscilla was promoting Elvis by the Presley's she came to London and Australia but Elvis never did.

When Lisa Marie came out with her first album she didn't have a fanbase of her own in the United States much less in Australia but she went there and performed some shows something her father never did.

Country singers that are not know worldwide do shows overseas while someone as popular as Elvis never did go.

It's just strange and ironic especially the airplane.
the thing about the airplane just creeps me out

[TotallyInsane]

It's just strange and ironic especially the airplane.
the thing about the airplane just creeps me out


What creeps you out about the plane?

[beckelvis]

:hmm:I Believe that to have i throw a tour out USA;for the whole EUROPE,and for what was it could not do it,there the colonel:mad: was controlling everything not to have to go out of the country.

[Miss Clawdy]

I think one of Elvis' missed opportunities was to undergo his intestinal operation.

[SleepyJack]

Even as early as the return from the army Elvis had doubts about how long his popularity would hold,and how long public interest in the new music would last.... I think he really believed it when he referred to his life as a fairytale.I think if Elvis himself were to post here he would say that he had a life full of opportunities and took many of them.... I don`t see too many signs of regret in anything he did or didn`t do.The problem with missed opportunities is that they are...well....missed! We all have had them,we could all find at least one time in our lives that would have changed our fortunes one way or the other... but it`s usually too late when we are equipped to see them. In many ways I think Elvis` approach to it all was a good one...he was thankful for all that came his way and didn`t waste too much time worrying about the things that didn`t.

[Tommy]

Even as early as the return from the army Elvis had doubts about how long his popularity would hold,and how long public interest in the new music would last.... I think he really believed it when he referred to his life as a fairytale.I think if Elvis himself were to post here he would say that he had a life full of opportunities and took many of them.... I don`t see too many signs of regret in anything he did or didn`t do.The problem with missed opportunities is that they are...well....missed! We all have had them,we could all find at least one time in our lives that would have changed our fortunes one way or the other... but it`s usually too late when we are equipped to see them. In many ways I think Elvis` approach to it all was a good one...he was thankful for all that came his way and didn`t waste too much time worrying about the things that didn`t.

Good summation (y)

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

He was more a "still there" rather than a "still am".

Occasional minor chart success aside, he hadn't done anything truly relevant in years.

He was a touring act; and, at the end, a sad parody of himself and a rock star.

Michael Jackson is that man today, only to a far greater extent.

As unpleasant as the analogy is, it is correct. Jackson however, I find odious and malevolent.

[Jungleroom76]

As unpleasant as the analogy is, it is correct. Jackson however, I find odious and malevolent.

Right there with you J.J.!!! :blush:

Musically, Jackson was a very cutting edge artist back during his heyday, no question about that from most people. But once his off-stage antics began overshadowing his career, things took a definite turn for the worst...ruining what could have been a career that reached a level that might not have ever been surpassed. :hmm:

TCB!
Mike

[Brian]

For me another smaller scale missed opportunity was not recording a blues album or albums

In 1970 Elvis recorded the album Elvis Country consisting of old country songs and country standards and I think it would've been nice if Elvis had recorded an album or 2 of blues standards as well.

In Elvis career he only recorded about 14 real blues songs that's very low compared to the large number of country and gospel songs he did record.

The album probably would've been very killer and probably have been a very acclaimed album.

Elvis is in the Rock n' roll, Rockabilly, Country and Gospel Hall of fame but isn't in the Blues Hall of fame I think because he recorded so few blues songs that he doesn't qualify enough as a blues artist but if he did record more blues I think he would've been inducted at some point.

It's really a shame Elvis never made a blues album because as Reconsider baby or Stranger in my own Hometown demonstrate he was a great one.

Of course if Elvis really wanted to record a blues album he would have done it.

[Getlo]

Musically, Jackson was a very cutting edge artist back during his heyday, no question about that from most people. But once his off-stage antics began overshadowing his career, things took a definite turn for the worst...ruining what could have been a career that reached a level that might not have ever been surpassed.

Surpassed not even by Elvis.

Had MJ maintained his brilliance after Off The Wall and Thriller, he would be infinitely bigger and - arguably - more influential than The King ever was.

It's quite a pity. I was never a huge fan of his, but it would be nice to see him on the charts again - as the person he used to be - with good music.

As it is, he was/is the only male singer to come close to what Elvis achieved ... and he blew it, in a far more extensive and damaging way than Elvis ever did.

In some ways, MJ's worst career move was not dying when he was at the top or just after. His hideousness and general life now make Elvis' look like a picnic by comparison.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

In some ways, MJ's worst career move was not dying when he was at the top or just after. His hideousness and general life now make Elvis' look like a picnic by comparison.

Amen to that..

[jak]

I gotta comment on MJ on this thread.Back in the day nobody can argue about his influence or achievments.He was everywhere.I still dont think he ever came close to Elvis.It's hard for me to explain.With Elvis it's more than just number one's or who did what.Elvis had something that will always set him apart from the pack.I cant explain it.I just know he was something special and extraordinary.I dont care if somebody breaks all his records.It wouldnt matter.Elvis could truly touch people and literally change thier lives.He did mine.I dont think many other entertainers can touch people in such a personal way as Elvis did his fans.MJ was an amazing talent for sure,but he was no Elvis.

[SleepyJack]

Michael Jackson more influential than Elvis?:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

[KPM]

I have to say I never thought of Elvis as a hasbeen. Elvis had never set out to be "relevant" in the sense of making a revolutionary new music or a new style....it happened naturally. So to say Elvis ever set out at any point in his career to suddenly change music-and be relevant to the era he happened to be in IMO is incorrect. Elvis wanted to make music-music he liked and he hoped others would like-sometimes it was relevant to the music of the day, in the 50s it was "revolutionary" in style sometimes it missed the mark like the movie music but I never saw him as a hasbeen. I saw him as in a slump-to use a baseball term.
Even with the movie years included he still was a huge seller in the 1960s second to the Beatles and he was selling well into the early 70s-but after Aloha... 74-77... his sales were losing ground, and he did not want to record.
So IMO we are only talking about a 3-4 year span where he was just not working on making music-he was touring. Now if he had gone from 1974 into the 80s and had still not wanted to record, was still not trying to make new
music and was just touring then I would have seen him as a hasbeen.
I mean today people take 3-5 years to make an album-they don't even necessarily tour often and are not considered hasbeens. As a matter of fact these long gaps between albums by many artists are kind of annoying to me.( just like Elvis not wanting to go into a recording studio at the end is annoying to me) Since the 80s artists have got so worried about making perfect albums it takes years to get one done-????
Elvis may not have always worried about relevant but when he was truely involved in making good music it did not take 3-5 years for a single album.
He went by instinct, and recorded until he liked the sound. Right or wrong it was just the way he worked when he was involved. Considering his gold/platinum success and his chart success around the world he must have done something correct along the way.

[KPM]

I gotta comment on MJ on this thread.Back in the day nobody can argue about his influence or achievments.He was everywhere.I still dont think he ever came close to Elvis.It's hard for me to explain.With Elvis it's more than just number one's or who did what.Elvis had something that will always set him apart from the pack.I cant explain it.I just know he was something special and extraordinary.I dont care if somebody breaks all his records.It wouldnt matter.Elvis could truly touch people and literally change thier lives.He did mine.I dont think many other entertainers can touch people in such a personal way as Elvis did his fans.[B]MJ was an amazing talent for sure,but he was no Elvis.
I think MJ is a great talent-but he is also greatly hyped. I see in MJ a man who is always looking for the "angle". He is also a man with IMO even greater demons than Elvis in his personal makeup. A man obsessed with his image, down to the smallest detail-insisting in contract that MTV always refer to him as the "King Of Pop" when he was working with them.His face is a shambles because of his inability to accept his looks. His financial situation is a mess and even though his one asset of the Beatles song catalogue is worth hundreds of millions-its reported he now only owns 25% since Sony has advanced him millions to help with his financial problems and he signed over much of it to them.
He has lied in public concerning Elvis's treatment of Otis Blackwell saying Blackwell was cheated and died in poverty-yet in truth Blackwell was very happy to be associated with Elvis and he made a ton of money from those songs-when Elvis died in 77 Blackwell did a tribute album in his honor-Blackwell did not feel he was cheated or that Elvis had taken him.
MJ says he has sold more records than Elvis or the Beatles.
MJ was given an award a few years back for the Thriller album claiming 108 million in worldwide sales from someone based on sales estimates that came from MJ and his management it seems.
Guinness in the 2009 edition claims that Sony(MJs old label) and the RIAA estimate he has sold 55 million worldwide for "Thriller" which is a far cry from 108 million. When MJs London concerts were announced MJs website proclaimed fans bought out all 50 shows in hours-but that was not strictly the case- ticket companies bought out much of those tickets in blocks and then proceeded to sell them on line. Even today there are plenty of tickets available for all these shows-yet MJ claims "fans" have bought them all. ( If anyone is interested here is a site where you can get some)
http://www.getmein.com/rock-and-pop/michael-jackson-2-tickets.html
:):):)
MJs dancing is amazing but he is not strictly original in it-watch old routines by the Nicholas Brothers in the 1930s into the 50s and you will see an amazing resemblence in some of his moves and what they did. Even Dean Martins uncle, Leonard Barr, who was called in vaudeville an "eccentric dancer" had weird moves similar to steps used by MJ. Of course he put then together into routines for his songs but they were just not all his own.
Even that famous "Moonwalk" is not his-The moonwalk (not called that back then) was first seen in 1943 in a performance by tap dancer Bill Bailey.
MJ himself has said Marcel Marceau's Walking Against the Wind is where he got the idea.
I give him credit for talent and knowing how to hype himself-but he is not as important to rock music as Elvis or the Beatles.

....The biggest difference between Elvis and MJ is that MJ takes all of this seriously IMO-he believes his own hype-where as Elvis had a more humble (almost disbelief) way of seeing the effect he had and the things he had accomplished.

[Getlo]

MJ was an amazing talent for sure,but he was no Elvis.

Not to us, no, but to his fans ... they are just as devoted as Presley fans, if not more.


Michael Jackson more influential than Elvis?:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Had he maintained his Off The Wall/Thriller standards; eventually, yes. Partly due to talent and partly due to media exposure etc being more sophisticated in the 80s and 90s after Elvis died. Had he kept it all together, there's no telling what he would have accomplished.

As it is, though, MJ's fall is the by far greatest of any pop/music star short of actually dying. It's not that he had higher to fall, mind you. It's just that he fell as far as he could fall ... then somehow went further.

[Getlo]

Even that famous "Moonwalk" is not his-The moonwalk (not called that back then) was first seen in 1943 in a performance by tap dancer Bill Bailey.

MJ gets the credit for the Moonwalk because he brought it to the masses and did it better than anyone had ever done.

And so Elvis gets the credit for starting rock'n'roll.

Neither claim is strictly true, but they are more than appropriate for the two reasons I listed above.

[TotallyInsane]

I have to say I never thought of Elvis as a hasbeen. Elvis had never set out to be "relevant" in the sense of making a revolutionary new music or a new style....it happened naturally. So to say Elvis ever set out at any point in his career to suddenly change music-and be relevant to the era he happened to be in IMO is incorrect. Elvis wanted to make music-music he liked and he hoped others would like-sometimes it was relevant to the music of the day, in the 50s it was "revolutionary" in style sometimes it missed the mark like the movie music but I never saw him as a hasbeen. I saw him as in a slump-to use a baseball term.
Even with the movie years included he still was a huge seller in the 1960s second to the Beatles and he was selling well into the early 70s-but after Aloha... 74-77... his sales were losing ground, and he did not want to record.
So IMO we are only talking about a 3-4 year span where he was just not working on making music-he was touring. Now if he had gone from 1974 into the 80s and had still not wanted to record, was still not trying to make new
music and was just touring then I would have seen him as a hasbeen.
I mean today people take 3-5 years to make an album-they don't even necessarily tour often and are not considered hasbeens. As a matter of fact these long gaps between albums by many artists are kind of annoying to me.( just like Elvis not wanting to go into a recording studio at the end is annoying to me) Since the 80s artists have got so worried about making perfect albums it takes years to get one done-????
Elvis may not have always worried about relevant but when he was truely involved in making good music it did not take 3-5 years for a single album.
He went by instinct, and recorded until he liked the sound. Right or wrong it was just the way he worked when he was involved. Considering his gold/platinum success and his chart success around the world he must have done something correct along the way.

Brilliant post!!! (y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

[utmom2008]

I saw them both, at the top of their game. MJ came to Dallas in '83 or '84, it was during the "Thriller" hype. Yes, he was great, yes, you couldn't take your eyes off of him...his dancing(esp. the Moonwalk) were unbelievable. Yet still, he was not in the same ballpark as Elvis. The electricity that was in the air for MJ was not as great as was there for Elvis.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I gotta comment on MJ on this thread.Back in the day nobody can argue about his influence or achievments.He was everywhere.I still dont think he ever came close to Elvis.It's hard for me to explain.With Elvis it's more than just number one's or who did what.Elvis had something that will always set him apart from the pack.I cant explain it.I just know he was something special and extraordinary.I dont care if somebody breaks all his records.It wouldnt matter.Elvis could truly touch people and literally change thier lives.He did mine.I dont think many other entertainers can touch people in such a personal way as Elvis did his fans.MJ was an amazing talent for sure,but he was no Elvis.

I believe that in his pinnacle years Jackson through the media was bigger than Elvis :supriced: his face was on everything, he was selling huge quantities of merchandise, they guy was untouchable circa 84-87. To say he sold less than Elvis is extremely debatable these days, especially in terms of a particular album e.g. Thriller, you would be hard pushed to choose an album by Elvis to compete sales wise. The way media is sold these day with downloads and piracy who knows how much more each artist could have sold.

The problem with MJ is he believed his own hype, his ego got the better of him and he started to record self indulgent rubbish that turned away the casual fan. The casual fan is the one who makes an artist, as their staunch fans will buy no matter what.

I'm not ashamed to say a have a few Jackson CD's in my collection, anybody who likes popular music would. The turning point for me was his private life revelations and the dodgy messiah-esque songs (n)


I saw them both, at the top of their game. MJ came to Dallas in '83 or '84, it was during the "Thriller" hype. Yes, he was great, yes, you couldn't take your eyes off of him...his dancing(esp. the Moonwalk) were unbelievable. Yet still, he was not in the same ballpark as Elvis. The electricity that was in the air for MJ was not as great as was there for Elvis.

I saw Jackson in 1988 at Aintree, he was very good :notworthy

[jak]

"I believe that in his pinnacle years Jackson through the media was bigger than Elvis his face was on everything, he was selling huge quantities of merchandise, they guy was untouchable circa 84-87."

Im not so sure.Im not old enough to have experienced firsthand Elvis' breakthrough years of 56-57.Im guessing that would have been comparable.Although Im aware the media coverage was far more intense and prevelant by the time MJ exploded.Like Getlo said his fans are devoted just like us.I know my opinion has to be biased.You guys made some great point about the fact that MJ believed his hype and took everything to seriously.Elvis always seemed to maintain an innocence about him.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Elvis always seemed to maintain an innocence about him.

100% agreed, Elvis had a common touch that MJ just doesn't seem to have. Elvis was good with the fans and always seemed humble about his stardom, not to say he didn't enjoy his fame as I believe he did until the latter part of the 70's. Jackson's behaviour seems bizarre even by Elvis' 70's flash side standards..

[EnigmaticSun]

Oh come on.. Has Michael Jackson ever recorded something as beautiful or meaningful as "How Great Thou Art"? He's more like a smooth criminal.. and I don't like his voice at all.

Yeah, I agree with Jumpsuit Junkie. Innocence.. I mean.. Jackson is like today's cartoons or educational system. It appears to be family friendly but evil is inside.

[Brian]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say Michael Jackson would've surpassed Elvis in popularity.

For one thing Elvis was a pioneer in rock music and is considered to be the most influential artist of all time where as Jackson isn't.

Elvis has inspired/influenced Buddy Holly, Roy Orbison, Gene Vincent, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Creedence Clearwater Revival etc.

Michael Jackon has inspired/influenced NySync, Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys etc.

Most of the people that Elvis influenced are considered more important artists than the one's influenced by Jackson so even if he had maintained his level of popularity after Thriller I think Elvis would've still been seen as a more influential and culturally significant person.

I also say there is no way Michael Jackson could've maintained his huge personal popularity and his great artistic achievements after Thriller because that album was so popular and sold so much everything Jackson did paled in comparison even though his follow up album 1987 Bad was a pretty good album.

I don't think Michael Jackson has sold more records than Elvis as he's only released 7 albums

[utmom2008]

I'm not ashamed to say a have a few Jackson CD's in my collection, anybody who likes popular music would. The turning point for me was his private life revelations and the dodgy messiah-esque songs (n)



Me too, I have several as a matter of fact. Back in '83 and/or '84 you were missing something if you didn't have "Thriller."
And I agree, the turning point was the same for me as well.(n)

[Getlo]

Oh come on.. Has Michael Jackson ever recorded something as beautiful or meaningful as "How Great Thou Art"?

If you have to ask that question, it's obvious you've never listed to Jackson's music beyond the greatest hits and a few others.

[EnigmaticSun]

If you have to ask that question, it's obvious you've never listed to Jackson's music beyond the greatest hits and a few others.

Man I was brainwashed with popular radio music. This has had an traumatic impact I can tell. Or I don't understand your humor.

I know how you feel about him, but at least Hitler could be trusted alone with children. It's not very artistic molesting them.

Besides: I even found Billy Gilman to be a more interesting child star. But tastes do differ and I will respect yours.

[KPM]

I believe that in his pinnacle years Jackson through the media was bigger than Elvis :supriced: his face was on everything, he was selling huge quantities of merchandise, they guy was untouchable circa 84-87. To say he sold less than Elvis is extremely debatable these days, especially in terms of a particular album e.g. Thriller, you would be hard pushed to choose an album by Elvis to compete sales wise. The way media is sold these day with downloads and piracy who knows how much more each artist could have sold.

The problem with MJ is he believed his own hype, his ego got the better of him and he started to record self indulgent rubbish that turned away the casual fan. The casual fan is the one who makes an artist, as their staunch fans will buy no matter what.

I'm not ashamed to say a have a few Jackson CD's in my collection, anybody who likes popular music would. The turning point for me was his private life revelations and the dodgy messiah-esque songs (n)



I saw Jackson in 1988 at Aintree, he was very good :notworthy
Yes he was everywhere you looked-but in 1984 the media was much more vast, speedy, and "inclusive in entertainment stories" in their news. Also MJ had a 24/7 MTV rock music network to play his videos and push his product.
Elvis in 1955 had local record hops, and eventually Dick Clarks Bandstand on once a week. In 1955 Elvis, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis etc...fought the fight to establish rock as an acceptable music. In 1955 into the 60s there was no American Music Awards, no World Music Awards, no rock categories in the Grammys, and the Academy Awards ignored rock music used in film.
The stage for MJ and his Thriller success was perfectly set in his heydey.
He was not seen as a threat, and pretty much all the public, regardless of age, color, gender...... liked him and more important accepted him-easy to climb to the top when you have everyone rooting you on. (MJ messed all that up later)
Elvis did not have the things I listed going for him-and it was much harder.

[Getlo]

I know how you feel about him, but at least Hitler could be trusted alone with children. It's not very artistic molesting them.

In case you missed it, Jackson was acquitted of all charges.

[TotallyInsane]

In case you missed it, Jackson was acquitted of all charges.

And OJ didn't kill Nichole either.

[utmom2008]

And OJ didn't kill Nichole either.

Bingo! You beat me to it!:lol:

[Sonny]

wasn't this about Elvis?

[TotallyInsane]

Somewhere along the way it switched to Michael Jackson.

[Sonny]

then we have to switch it back... or it will be an off topic one...

[Getlo]

And OJ didn't kill Nichole either.

OJ was also acquitted, so according to the letter of the law, no he didn't.

[rocknroll]

OJ was also acquitted, so according to the letter of the law, no he didn't.

He was also convicted.

[Getlo]

He was also convicted.

No, OJ was charged with the murder of his ex-wife and her friend ... then acquitted in 1995.

Last year, he was convicted, yes ... but for various felonies including attempted kidnapping.

Therefore, no matter which was you slice it, OJ is not a murderer according to the law.

[rex martin]

Yes but before
Phil Spector
OJ
M. Jackson
and Even ELVIS

The Colonel had to get out of HOLLAND
because someone had just been killed
In an area he Lived, at the same time he left..

Which is why he never visited Elvis in Germany
-didn't want to let ELVIS TOUR outside the USA
and never returned to Canada.

THATS IT! BACK ON TOPIC. WONDERFUL.....

[TotallyInsane]

Rex,
Glad to see you back - we've been wondering where you've been!! Welcome back!

[rocknroll]

No, OJ was charged with the murder of his ex-wife and her friend ... then acquitted in 1995.

Last year, he was convicted, yes ... but for various felonies including attempted kidnapping.

Therefore, no matter which was you slice it, OJ is not a murderer according to the law.

He was "convicted" in civil court as being responsible for their deaths. Unfortunately, the penalty for this isn't the electric chair.

[Brian]

Yes but before
Phil Spector
OJ
M. Jackson
and Even ELVIS

The Colonel had to get out of HOLLAND
because someone had just been killed
In an area he Lived, at the same time he left..

Which is why he never visited Elvis in Germany
-didn't want to let ELVIS TOUR outside the USA
and never returned to Canada.

THATS IT! BACK ON TOPIC. WONDERFUL.....

oh come on

You don't really believe Parker murdered the woman

The only person I've heard say Parker might've murdered that Woman is Alanna Nash and she says she found no evidence.
The police never came looking for Parker and he was never questioned about it while he was alive by anyone

[Getlo]

The only person I've heard say Parker might've murdered that Woman is Alanna Nash and she says she found no evidence.


Nash is a hack. Poor research, and she draws many long bows.

There is no truth at all to Parker being a murderer.

[EnigmaticSun]

There is no truth at all to Parker being a murderer.

Parker is not.. the moonlight gambler. I'd describe his behavior as murderous still, that means as far as spilling money is concerned! He was the big lobster whose real name is hard to pronounce for you guys. His policy meant depletion or what?

[Miss Clawdy]

Another one of Elvis missed opportunities was that the Colonel kept him from doing a World tour because:


The Colonel had to get out of HOLLAND
because someone had just been killed
In an area he Lived, at the same time he left..

Which is why he never visited Elvis in Germany
-didn't want to let ELVIS TOUR outside the USA
and never returned to Canada.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

In case you missed it, Jackson was acquitted of all charges.

Just because you are acquitted by a court of law doesn't mean you are innocent!


Just to keep this thread on topic Click HERE
(http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread.php?p=301260#post301260)

[KPM]

He was also convicted.
OJ was acquitted in the criminal trial for the murder of his ex and Ron Goldman but he was found accountable in a wrongful death suit in a civil court filed by Goldmans father for their deaths.
A civil jury found it more than likely that he caused the death of his wife and her friend. A criminal jury was unable to find beyond a reasonable doubt that O.J. committed first degree murder.

[rocknroll]

OJ was acquitted in the criminal trial for the murder of his ex and Ron Goldman but he was found accountable in a wrongful death suit in a civil court filed by Goldmans father for their deaths.
A civil jury found it more than likely that he caused the death of his wife and her friend. A criminal jury was unable to find beyond a reasonable doubt that O.J. committed first degree murder.

Right.....and we all know what that means.