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Donut
04-03-2009, 10:20 AM
I was taking a look at the last pages of 'Elvis day by day' today and completely understood why this guy wondered all his life wether if people really loved him or only wanted to get something from him. I know some around him took care of him and love him untill this day and that some tried to help him but considering how ill he was by 77 and how obvious it was, I find it sad how some were only thinking about themselves and their pockets while Elvis was so worn out and weak that he almost needed a crane to put him on stage.
Some examples of this (some more understandable than others) are the loan to Dr Nick of $55,000 on top of a previously unsecured and interest-free one of $200,000 , a deed of trust to Graceland issued to Priscilla in order to guaranty the almost $500,000 he still owed her on the divorce settlement (correct me if I'm wrong but I think she also asked Elvis that same year to loan her father money for a liquor business he wanted to open), $5,000 (!!!) to settle the suit brought by the girl who got her ankle broken during an Elvis karate demostration at his suite, and $50,000 he had to pay out due to the Presley Center Courts lawsuit. And this was only during 1977.

After giving a thought to this and some other events of his life I'm happy he spent so much and left 'very little' when he died, the guy gave so much voluntarily and not in his life that it would be selfish asking him to worry about what the ones alive after his death would do without him supporting them.
He didn't invest and think of the future... yeah, so what. Good for him.

Merry
04-03-2009, 12:47 PM
That's what I've been saying since day one ......

utmom2008
04-03-2009, 01:25 PM
After giving a thought to this and some other events of his life I'm happy he spent so much and left 'very little' when he died, the guy gave so much voluntarily and not in his life that it would be selfish asking him to worry about what the ones alive after his death would do without him supporting them.
He didn't invest and think of the future... yeah, so what. Good for him.

(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

CRITTERGITTER
04-03-2009, 02:39 PM
It was his money. He literally sweat to make it. If he wanted to spend it, so what. He made so many others happy with by his gifts to different people. Makes you wonder who would have stayed there if they had known they weren't getting anything.

midnight
04-03-2009, 07:22 PM
I agree with everything you said Donut! I am happy that at least he got to enjoy buying things that he liked and he certainly deserved to do that! He was never selfish with his money and gave away so much. I just wish he had found the same amount of happiness in his own life, like he had given to others.

shelley.m.
04-03-2009, 07:57 PM
It was his money. He literally sweat to make it. If he wanted to spend it, so what. He made so many others happy with by his gifts to different people. Makes you wonder who would have stayed there if they had known they weren't getting anything.

(y)Well said!(y)

Donut
04-04-2009, 05:28 AM
It was his money. He literally sweat to make it. If he wanted to spend it, so what.


I am happy that at least he got to enjoy buying things that he liked and he certainly deserved to do that!

That's what I think too.

I understand how he must have felt during the last months of his life when this all happened while being so hooked on prescriptions and feeling ill. He was a difficult man but I bet he had his reasons to act the way he did many times. The sad part is he is not here to give his side of the story but thanks to the amount of books on him you can get the picture of how things were and who now only want to make themselves look good or not.

midnight
04-04-2009, 06:22 AM
Of course, I have never met Elvis but after reading tons of books on him over many, many years I also feel that I have a developed a sense of who he really was by putting pieces of facts from various sources together.
I realize also that the man was not easy to deal with at times but I try to look at the "big picture". I really believe ,particularly in the end, that his life had to be Hell! None of us ever walked in his shoes and there is noone's life that will ever compare to his!
Just coming from the background that he did, and rising from that to becoming one the most famous men in the 50s at just 21 is a lot to deal with. I think that alone leaves one with issues that would take years to deal with. There are poor people today that rise to fame but I do not think they ever experienced the poverty he dealt with. Everyone today is exposed to the outside world from tv and the media but Elvis came from nothing and was probably exposed to nothing, and had all this fame and money thrown into his lap. How do anyone deal with all that and not have problems mentally?

That is only the tip of the iceberg ,as we know, in the chain of events that make up his life. Losing his mom, his marriage,the people who used him all his life and even his fans that he dearly loved, held such a heavy burden on him.
We now know about his drug addictions and how he tried to go on hiding that from the world! He continued to try to do his best for us and perform when he should of been in an hospital bed.

I often think of the inner battle he must of fought within himself. There was so much he had to deal with and he kept a lot of it inside. In the end he really was a broken man. Broken inside and out!:'(

I also wish he was here to tell his side of the story and what a tale it would be!

Donut
04-04-2009, 06:44 AM
We now know about his drug addictions and how he tried to go on hiding that from the world!

That must have been very difficult for him. He had constructed an image of the hard/super-cool man for himself and maybe showing his 'weak' side to his fans was like a failure in his mind.

midnight
04-04-2009, 06:53 AM
That must have been very difficult for him. He had constructed an image of the hard/super-cool man for himself and maybe showing his 'weak' side to his fans was like a failure in his mind.

Exactly!!(y)(y)(y)

utmom2008
04-04-2009, 10:23 AM
Excellent posts Midnight and Donut!(y)(y)(y)

debtdbruno
04-04-2009, 02:37 PM
Very inciteful comments. ALSO VERY TRUE unfortunately
Deb

Angeline69
04-11-2009, 11:36 AM
(y)(y)Very good thread and fantastic comments (y)

jeanelvisgirl
04-11-2009, 01:09 PM
Midnight...too true...wow....very well thought out post!

SleepyJack
04-11-2009, 01:19 PM
I doubt if any of us can really understand the depth of his worries and his sorrows towards the end.Many men have a difficult time facing up to getting older and losing their appeal,their looks etc.... but how difficult must it have been for a man that,for most of his adult life had been held up as such an iconic and perfect figure?
Also, I get the impression that Elvis would have had the same attitude to wealth even if he had never found the success that he did, I think he really was one of those people who believed in happiness in the moment for himself and for those around him. I am really learning to agree with that even more with each passing year....we are only ever really here "now"..we really should try to make every minute count.

franny
04-11-2009, 01:39 PM
I doubt if any of us can really understand the depth of his worries and his sorrows towards the end.Many men have a difficult time facing up to getting older and losing their appeal,their looks etc.... but how difficult must it have been for a man that,for most of his adult life had been held up as such an iconic and perfect figure?
Also, I get the impression that Elvis would have had the same attitude to wealth even if he had never found the success that he did, I think he really was one of those people who believed in happiness in the moment for himself and for those around him. I am really learning to agree with that even more with each passing year....we are only ever really here "now"..we really should try to make every minute count.

Well said, Sleepyjack. (y) Great post! :notworthy

franny

Merry
04-11-2009, 02:01 PM
I doubt if any of us can really understand the depth of his worries and his sorrows towards the end.Many men have a difficult time facing up to getting older and losing their appeal,their looks etc.... but how difficult must it have been for a man that,for most of his adult life had been held up as such an iconic and perfect figure?
Also, I get the impression that Elvis would have had the same attitude to wealth even if he had never found the success that he did, I think he really was one of those people who believed in happiness in the moment for himself and for those around him. I am really learning to agree with that even more with each passing year....we are only ever really here "now"..we really should try to make every minute count.


I agree, it would be difficult to be held by some as a perfect figure. It would have been a burdeon.

I have to say, that some men age incredibly well; as some people age, their kindness in their life, shows. Elvis also had something so very special and appealing about him, a kindness, a love of God and a love of the little things in life, besides so many other things, that are important, that I love about him.
I'd be blessed to have Elvis by my side, no matter what, when, how, whatever.

I also agree, Jack, that every minute has to count. Life just leaves us, the hours turn into days, into years, in a flash, all too quickly. We need to grasp it now, while we can, and enjoy each other's company, and life. Who cares what other people think.

shelley.m.
04-11-2009, 06:18 PM
To be honest,I wouldn't want to have been in Elvis' shoes.Knowing who you can trust and can't trust.Wondering if these so-called friends like you for you or for your money.What Elvis really needed in his lifetime,was real friends and not so-called "hangers-on." Real friends,would have been there for him,right up til the bitter end or better yet,they wouldn't have let Elvis self-destruct.

cibetty
04-14-2009, 10:07 AM
Great thread and great answers!! I think it is very hard to imagine what it would be like to walk in his shoes. Elvis was so unique, there will never be another one like him. I'm sure he felt loneliness many times. Many people looked up to him and wanted to follow him, admired his talent, but who was the one who he was able to look up to when nobody was better than him? I think he had the happiest and the saddest moments what a man can ever have on this world. And I'm sure there will never be another star with this amazing talent and who can give so much kindness, so much love to his fans. And men (and women as well) get love first from their mother, what ifluences all the rest of their lives, so I'm sure he got so much love from Gladys, what later he was able to give to others. I'm sure it was his most painful time in his life when he lost her. And this pain never left him, I'm sure, but he didn't forget to smile, to laugh, and he always tried to treat people like he wanted to be treated, maybe this came from his mother as well. And I'm sure there will never be another singer who can put so much feelings into the songs and can sing from his heart and his soul, honestly. I have the feeling many times when I listen to his songs that he sings about himself. He was a very special and a wonderful man!!!

lvs2day
04-15-2009, 10:00 AM
I was taking a look at the last pages of 'Elvis day by day' today and completely understood why this guy wondered all his life wether if people really loved him or only wanted to get something from him. I know some around him took care of him and love him untill this day and that some tried to help him but considering how ill he was by 77 and how obvious it was, I find it sad how some were only thinking about themselves and their pockets while Elvis was so worn out and weak that he almost needed a crane to put him on stage.
Some examples of this (some more understandable than others) are the loan to Dr Nick of $55,000 on top of a previously unsecured and interest-free one of $200,000 , a deed of trust to Graceland issued to Priscilla in order to guaranty the almost $500,000 he still owed her on the divorce settlement (correct me if I'm wrong but I think she also asked Elvis that same year to loan her father money for a liquor business he wanted to open), $5,000 (!!!) to settle the suit brought by the girl who got her ankle broken during an Elvis karate demostration at his suite, and $50,000 he had to pay out due to the Presley Center Courts lawsuit. And this was only during 1977.

After giving a thought to this and some other events of his life I'm happy he spent so much and left 'very little' when he died, the guy gave so much voluntarily and not in his life that it would be selfish asking him to worry about what the ones alive after his death would do without him supporting them.
He didn't invest and think of the future... yeah, so what. Good for him.
funny thing i have had this book for many years and just started to read most of it especially from the days of 72 onwards its amazing how much money he gave away and loaned to so called friends even his doctor, he was also taken advantage of by sonny west who thought it obligitory to have his wife and child flown in at ELVIS expense.

elvislina
04-15-2009, 10:50 AM
Thank you so much for sharing this thread, Elvis was a good man and that was a good thing of him to like buy things to his friends and other and I wish that he could have time to buy something to him self to and take care of him more so he could be still here with us.

I think he miss something in his life because he feel so lonly sometimes.

I hope I not have say something wrong now.

I Love elvis a lot and wish that he was here today.



Thank you for sharing and have a nice spring time

Merry
04-15-2009, 01:57 PM
Thank you so much for sharing this thread, Elvis was a good man and that was a good thing of him to like buy things to his friends and other and I wish that he could have time to buy something to him self to and take care of him more so he could be still here with us.

I think he miss something in his life because he feel so lonly sometimes.

I hope I not have say something wrong now.

I Love elvis a lot and wish that he was here today.



Thank you for sharing and have a nice spring time



You haven't said anything wrong, honey, not at all.

You are very right, Elvis was a very good man, and I too, love him a lot, and wish he was here, today.

:hug:
Kimmi

KPM
04-15-2009, 02:49 PM
That must have been very difficult for him. He had constructed an image of the hard/super-cool man for himself and maybe showing his 'weak' side to his fans was like a failure in his mind.
All men want to be known as supercool-in their own private circles but often we are kidding ourselves.
In Elvis's case he was supercool in many ways-but even supercool guys have problems, weaknesses, shortcomings and they mess up. No man likes to admit-I am not what I seem to be-I am not above worry, tension, jealously, and worst of all fear. I am lucky I do not have to try and live up to any image that fans and others projected onto him. Even though he wanted to be all the things he thought he was-and others thought he was-he was not in the end. He was mortal.

rickb
04-15-2009, 05:56 PM
good posts, everyone.
I hate it on some message boards when so-called `fans' simply denigrate Elvis' final years with absolutely no understanding or feeling for what he was obviously enduring

MaryintheMorning3
04-15-2009, 09:23 PM
I agree-good posts to everyone!! (y)(y)(y)(y) To go along with what you so very well said above rickb, I have also found that there have been people that I have met before in my life that denigrate Elvis' final years and yet these same people didn't even have nearly half the problems/worries/concerns that Elvis was dealing with in his final years and couldn't even deal with them nearly half as well as Elvis dealt with his. :blink: :supriced:

EnigmaticSun
04-16-2009, 07:26 AM
Yeah, I'm familiar with this male identity problem. Many guys struggle to achieve the right balance; the effects are being either too macho or not soft enough and nothing fits.

Getlo
04-16-2009, 08:18 AM
a deed of trust to Graceland issued to Priscilla in order to guaranty the almost $500,000 he still owed her on the divorce settlement

The key word here is owed. That is divorce. It was not asking for anything extra.


$5,000 (!!!) to settle the suit brought by the girl who got her ankle broken during an Elvis karate demostration at his suite

Perhaps an excessive sum, but the girl was injured and the Presley party was in the wrong. Elvis owed her the money. She didn't injure herself on purpose.


$50,000 he had to pay out due to the Presley Center Courts lawsuit..

Again, the lawsuit was not a case of someone taking advantage, except for perhaps of Elvis' poor business sense. He threw the dice in this business venture. He failed. He then owed the money.

Getlo
04-16-2009, 08:21 AM
That is only the tip of the iceberg ,as we know, in the chain of events that make up his life. Losing his mom, his marriage ... held such a heavy burden on him.

You're kidding.

His mother died 19 years before he did. I think we can safely say he was over the initial shock and tragedy of it all.

Divorce? Traumatic, sure. But so what? Thousands - millions! - of people divorce every year.

By comparison to most people in the real world, Elvis' problems didn't amount to a hill of beans (with a nod to Casablanca here).

Getlo
04-16-2009, 08:26 AM
And for those of you lamenting the fact that Elvis' friends and family took "advantage" of him ... well, it's all very well to have your theories in hindsight.

If you were there at the time with Elvis, you'd have done exactly the same thing.

Maybe not accepting houses or cars as gifts, though many of you would have. But maybe concert tickets. Some money. Hospitality. A flight here and there. Some bills paid. Clothing off his back. Other freebies.

Whatever.

Yeah, you'd have done it ... maybe to a small degree, maybe to a larger one.

You'd have done it, probably without even knowing you were doing so.

Every single person here would have.

EnigmaticSun
04-16-2009, 08:47 AM
Well I would have accepted a scarf.

Donut
04-16-2009, 03:09 PM
The key word here is owed. That is divorce. It was not asking for anything extra,

I Know. That's why I said some examples were more understandable than others.


Perhaps an excessive sum, but the girl was injured and the Presley party was in the wrong. Elvis owed her the money. She didn't injure herself on purpose.
An excessive sume considering it happened more than 30 years ago an was 'only' a broken ankle. She wouldn't have got that much if it wasn't Elvis who broke it. It's not like he injured her on purpose either so that's not the point.


Again, the lawsuit was not a case of someone taking advantage, except for perhaps of Elvis' poor business sense. He threw the dice in this business venture. He failed. He then owed the money.

I don't recall the exact details of this right know but I don't remember it like a business he wanted to make, I think it was more like a loan to them. Maybe you have the information about it at hand.

midnight
04-16-2009, 04:54 PM
You're kidding.

His mother died 19 years before he did. I think we can safely say he was over the initial shock and tragedy of it all.

Divorce? Traumatic, sure. But so what? Thousands - millions! - of people divorce every year.

By comparison to most people in the real world, Elvis' problems didn't amount to a hill of beans (with a nod to Casablanca here).

Kidding? Of course, I wrote all that down for a joke!:hmm:

His mother's death? I am sure he was over it after 19 years. I never said that caused his death or had anything to do with his death. We were talking about things that happened in his life that had to be difficult for him. I was talking about her death at the beginning of his career when he was 23 years old. I am sure that had an impact on his life.

His divorce? I am sure it was difficult for him. You are right divorce happens all the time. However, I think it set the stage for his downward spiral. No, I do not think it was because he could not live without Priscilla or because of his undying love for her which some like to believe. I think it was a shock to his ego. He was losing control. It lead to more drug use which did not help his situation in the end.

I still believe each piece of the puzzle that makes up Elvis' life did have something to do with how it all ended. We cannot compare Elvis' problems to most peoples in the "real world" but his problems were no picnic. I still stick by what I said in my previous post, his last few years had to be hellish. How can we judge and say his problems were nothing compared to others....none of us ever walked in his shoes. His biggest enemy in the end was himself. And that is a sad, sad end to any life.

rex martin
04-16-2009, 06:32 PM
Kidding? Of course, I wrote all that down for a joke!:hmm:

His mother's death? I am sure he was over it after 19 years. I never said that caused his death or had anything to do with his death. We were talking about things that happened in his life that had to be difficult for him. I was talking about her death at the beginning of his career when he was 23 years old. I am sure that had an impact on his life.

His divorce? I am sure it was difficult for him. You are right divorce happens all the time. However, I think it set the stage for his downward spiral. No, I do not think it was because he could not live without Priscilla or because of his undying love for her which some like to believe. I think it was a shock to his ego. He was losing control. It lead to more drug use which did not help his situation in the end.

I still believe each piece of the puzzle that makes up Elvis' life did have something to do with how it all ended. We cannot compare Elvis' problems to most peoples in the "real world" but his problems were no picnic. I still stick by what I said in my previous post, his last few years had to be hellish. How can we judge and say his problems were nothing compared to others....none of us ever walked in his shoes. His biggest enemy in the end was himself. And that is a sad, sad end to any life.

I think Elvis was very frustrated about GINGER - she was much more
Independant than Elvis was used to in his Women. She also was very
young - a much bigger age difference than with Priscilla or Linda.

He was also worried about the WESTS BOOK - former friends about to
Stab him in the Back. (Its hard to understand that most fans think they
are OK now, - they didn't dare turn up at Elvis Fan Events for years)

The end of June 1977 - he was being threatened with legal proceedings
over the Racket ball courts project.

The Karate Movie, he had started and been very much into, was shot
down by the Colonel.

He had only recently thought about Sacking the Colonel, but then not
really knowing which direction to go after that.

His dad was in Poor health, which must have worried him a lot

The Press was on his back for over 2 years, (since his 40th Birthday)
never letting up that he was old, and over weight, - Every Show Review
said something about this. In every city. Even in national trade papers
like VARIETY and BILLBOARD. - with United Press Int. and Associated
Press sending numerous reports Coast to Coast, and Worldwide about his
Health. Out alone the Scandal Newspaper Gutter Press - at the Tills - by
every Krash & Carry Outlet.......

Even fans wrote letters to GRACELAND - worrying about what he might
be doing to himself.

In 1977 - as Ill as he was! he still wanted and needed to be in contact
with his fans, Look at how many tours he completed in 6 Months.

THE POOR GUY NEEDED TO TAKE A LONG REST

TAKE SOME TIME OUT.

BOOK INTO A HOSPITAL - TAKE IT SERIOUSLY -
AND GET SOME OPERATIONS.....
TO CLEAR UP SOME OF HIS MEDICAL PROBLEMS.

OF WHICH WE NOW KNOW WERE MANY.

DO WE REALLY KNOW - HOW MUCH PAIN - HE REALLY WAS IN.
read about the BALTIMORE 77 show, and what people said..
HE REALLY WAS IN PAIN.

I feel so sorry for him, and the pressure Elvis Fans put him under..And all the other parts of the MEDIA..

SincerELy..... REX

midnight
04-16-2009, 06:38 PM
Great post Rex. So true. Elvis was in alot of pain in the last years of his life both physically and mentally. He had alot to deal with. We can`t even imagine the pain he felt .

Getlo
04-16-2009, 06:38 PM
How can we judge and say his problems were nothing compared to others....none of us ever walked in his shoes.

He had a lifestyle that, after he became famous, should have eliminated all the day-to-day hassles that we all have: money problems, mortgages, finding a place to live, raising a family.

Yes, he had problems like we all do but his problems - more so than most people - were self-inflicted. He had all the money and "power" in the world.

And before you say "money can't buy happiness", it all depends on how it's used. And I'll bet that saying was coined by some git who was too lazy to get up of his arse and do something about his poverty!

He wasted so much of his time with juvenile pursuits. Boredom set in. Drugs, for a while, relieved that boredom. Then drugs became boring.

He was too lazy to, among other things, make truly decent music more often than he did. The movie rut of the 60s. The concert rut of the 70s. Who knows what the 80s and beyond would have brought to the table?

In short, he pretty much squandered his life. Pissed it away. And as I approach my 42nd birthday in a few weeks, that has become more apparent to me of late.


His biggest enemy in the end was himself. And that is a sad, sad end to any life.

No argument there.

Let me be blunt: Elvis was too stubborn and, quite frankly, too stupid to realise the tailspin he was in and to ask for help.

Pride certainly did come before his fall. In spades.

midnight
04-16-2009, 06:46 PM
Getlo, when I turned 42 that is when I realized how young this man really was! He had so much life ahead of him.

utmom2008
04-16-2009, 06:51 PM
Well I would have accepted a scarf.

:lol:Well, I did! And, I must say....I've never had a moment's worth of guilt over it either!:lol::lol:(y)

utmom2008
04-16-2009, 07:18 PM
His divorce? I am sure it was difficult for him. You are right divorce happens all the time. However, I think it set the stage for his downward spiral. No, I do not think it was because he could not live without Priscilla or because of his undying love for her which some like to believe. I think it was a shock to his ego. He was losing control. It lead to more drug use which did not help his situation in the end.
(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)



Let me be blunt: Elvis was too stubborn and, quite frankly, too stupid to realise the tailspin he was in and to ask for help.

Pride certainly did come before his fall. In spades.

An enormous amount of pride and stubborness can certainly lead you to make stupid or foolish mistakes and decisions. I don't think it automatically means that you are a stupid person. I don't think it lowers your IQ by any means. Bernie Madoff had certainly reached a stage where his life was in a tailspin, but I think his pride and his enormous ego kept him from dealing with it. I wouldn't call Bernie Madoff stupid, but some of his decisions sure were!:doh::wacko:

Getlo...your birthday is coming up? Are by chance a Taurus? :supriced:I certainly am, right down to the hard- head and stubborness that go with it!:lol: It made me wonder if you are a fellow Taurean as well?:):lol:(y)

Brian
04-16-2009, 07:53 PM
You're kidding.

Divorce? Traumatic, sure. But so what? Thousands - millions! - of people divorce every year.

By comparison to most people in the real world, Elvis' problems didn't amount to a hill of beans (with a nod to Casablanca here).

I agree

very good post

I think sometimes some people blow Elvis problems out of proportion and act like his problems were very different and unique when in fact they were just the same things as ordinary everyday people go through.

midnight
04-16-2009, 08:01 PM
I agree

very good post

I think sometimes some people blow Elvis problems out of proportion and act like his problems were very different and unique when in fact they were just the same things as ordinary everyday people go through.

Everyday ordinary people do not go through the same sort of problems Elvis went through. Elvis was not your everyday ordinary person. It is also not ordinary for a man to die at 42 from prescription drug abuse.

Brian
04-16-2009, 08:08 PM
Everyday ordinary people do not go through the same sort of problems Elvis went through. Elvis was not your everyday ordinary person. It is also not ordinary for a man to die at 42 from prescription drug abuse.


There are many people who have drug problems and they do die from those problems, many of them are younger than Elvis was.

They were just regular ordinary everyday people

Merry
04-16-2009, 09:33 PM
If a person has been through a Divorce, Court Cases, been the top of their field, had many employees, problems with same, been ripped off by whomever, been tugged around by everyone, sickness, working anyway, to keep everyone employed and makes these comments saying "this didn't amount to...." I'll listen to them.

Otherwise, you don't know what you are talking about, you haven't been in that position, and you wouldn't have a clue, unless you have.

Brian
04-16-2009, 10:43 PM
If a person has been through a Divorce, Court Cases, been the top of their field, had many employees, problems with same, been ripped off by whomever, been tugged around by everyone, sickness, working anyway, to keep everyone employed and makes these comments saying "this didn't amount to...." I'll listen to them.

Otherwise, you don't know what you are talking about, you haven't been in that position, and you wouldn't have a clue, unless you have.

I've been through those things

Merry
04-17-2009, 12:51 AM
I've been through those things



I'm sorry to hear that, Brian.

With all due respect, you don't have millions of fans watching your every move, with everything that goes with it. Things would be magnified for me, anyway, if my personal business was up for discussion.

Brian
04-17-2009, 01:02 AM
I'm sorry to hear that, Brian.

With all due respect, you don't have millions of fans watching your every move, with everything that goes with it. Things would be magnified for me, anyway, if my personal business was up for discussion.


Well that's true

I was talking about the majority of Elvis personal problems such as his divorce, drug problems, weight problems etc. are things people go through everyday.

So the actual problems Elvis was having aren't any different than anyone else.

Getlo
04-17-2009, 03:06 AM
An enormous amount of pride and stubborness can certainly lead you to make stupid or foolish mistakes and decisions. I don't think it automatically means that you are a stupid person.

No, I said he was too stupid to realise, not that he was necessarily stupid overall.


Getlo...your birthday is coming up? Are by chance a Taurus?

No. I am a sceptic. I do not believe in star signs at all.

Getlo
04-17-2009, 03:09 AM
Divorce,

Nope.


Court Cases,

Check.


been the top of their field,

Check.


had many employees, problems with same,

Check.


been ripped off by whomever,

Check.


been tugged around by everyone,

Check.


sickness, working anyway, to keep everyone employed

Check.


and makes these comments saying "this didn't amount to...." I'll listen to them.

Then start listening.


you haven't been in that position, and you wouldn't have a clue, unless you have.

I have. And so have millions of other people. Thus, I have more than a clue here. ;)


With all due respect, you don't have millions of fans watching your every move, with everything that goes with it. Things would be magnified for me, anyway, if my personal business was up for discussion.

Elvis' personal business was rarely up for public discussion during his life, save for the last couple of years.

As for fans watching his every move, he could have quit the business.

Donut
04-17-2009, 03:29 AM
I think sometimes some people blow Elvis problems out of proportion and act like his problems were very different and unique when in fact they were just the same things as ordinary everyday people go through.

I don't think his problems were different from the ones we all have. Like you and Getlo say millions of people go through divorce, death and many worse things everyday and I have always seen it that way.
But when you are ill and don't feel fine you don't cope with problems in the same way or have the same strengh to do it. That's what I find sad with Elvis in the last year of his life because I don't think he had the state of mind to deal with some of the things he had to during that time.

Getlo
04-17-2009, 06:27 AM
That's what I find sad with Elvis in the last year of his life because I don't think he had the state of mind to deal with some of the things he had to during that time.

An altered state of minds due to the drugs; the "sickness" was mostly self-inflicted and therefore there could have been a way out.

But Elvis chose not to take that route and refused all offers of help to do so.

elvislady
04-17-2009, 06:36 AM
An altered state of minds due to the drugs; the "sickness" was mostly self-inflicted and therefore there could have been a way out.

But Elvis chose not to take that route and refused all offers of help to do so.

Getlo, it amazes me how much knowledge you have are you sure your not elvis...lol

elvislady:D:D

Merry
04-17-2009, 06:37 AM
Getlo, it amazes me how much knowledge you have are you sure your not elvis...lol

elvislady:D:D



That's the thing........

He isn't.......

elvislady
04-17-2009, 06:53 AM
That's the thing........

He isn't.......

I was joking jess... you cant deny he has not got the knowledge!
elvislady;)

Merry
04-17-2009, 06:58 AM
I was joking jess... you cant deny he has not got the knowledge!
elvislady;)


I know you where. There is a difference, as you know, between what someone portrays something to be, and what actually happens.

It happens all the time. I've argued with Getlo for who knows how long, and there isn't any point. People believe what they want to.

However, Elvis was a good man, a very good man, and he is misrepresented, and that, pings me off.

:hug:

Getlo
04-17-2009, 07:35 AM
Getlo, it amazes me how much knowledge you have are you sure your not elvis...lol

Thank you, but no I am not Elvis. Thankfully.


I was joking jess... you cant deny he has not got the knowledge!

Some choose to deny the very truth before them ... ;)


I've argued with Getlo for who knows how long, and there isn't any point.

Correct, as I am usually right.

:smoke:

midnight
04-17-2009, 07:59 AM
Getlo, you might see this has a compliment....but sometimes you just tick me off!! You have the perfect way of just irritating me!!! I am not saying this to be rude, I actually find it somewhat amusing!:lol:

elvislady
04-17-2009, 08:04 AM
I know you where. There is a difference, as you know, between what someone portrays something to be, and what actually happens.

It happens all the time. I've argued with Getlo for who knows how long, and there isn't any point. People believe what they want to.

However, Elvis was a good man, a very good man, and he is misrepresented, and that, pings me off.

:hug:

I dont think he is misrepresented because what people say about him has come from somewhere or someone has the knowledge to know this info.... i think its clear to see that elvis himself was not perfect and i am sure if he was around he would be the first to admit that... i think we all have to agree to disagree but i like the fact that we all have diffrent views on elvis!
elvislady:D

EnigmaticSun
04-17-2009, 08:11 AM
:lol:Well, I did! And, I must say....I've never had a moment's worth of guilt over it either!:lol::lol:(y)

You betcha! In all honesty: I don't think he would have demanded you to feel guilty about it..? :doh:

I didn't stand a chance since I wasn't born yet.

But in spite of all I've read, about him squandering his life away and such.. I can't and I won't agree; years after his passing away he's still inspiring people, the emotion never dies.

Elvis is like the Ferrari among pop-singers, I didn't find that emotion in Brit-pop bands. The man led an intensive life and gave a part of himself.

His body has died, but the King is alive. His music kicks butt today and young people like me will never forget him. Well I can't stop being involved with it (his legacy).

Donut
04-17-2009, 08:20 AM
An altered state of minds due to the drugs; the "sickness" was mostly self-inflicted and therefore there could have been a way out.

But Elvis chose not to take that route and refused all offers of help to do so.

Of course, but I think it's sad anyway.

screamindiva
04-17-2009, 08:23 AM
great post, and I totally agree with you Donut

Thank you
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

midnight
04-17-2009, 08:26 AM
Of course, but I think it's sad anyway.

I agree it is very sad. Whatever the circumstances were, it does not lessen the fact that here was a human being whose life ended much too young. To visit Graceland and see all his accomplishments and to know that in the end all is left is a slab of stone with him in it.:'(

Donut
04-17-2009, 08:49 AM
I totally agree with you Donut

Thank you
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you screamindiva


I agree it is very sad. Whatever the circumstances were, it does not lessen the fact that here was a human being whose life ended much too young. To visit Graceland and see all his accomplishments and to know that in the end all is left is a slab of stone with him in it.:'(

Yes midnight I find it sad too knowing that he probably could have avoided his own death and that now there's no turning back and that will never change.

utmom2008
04-17-2009, 12:49 PM
Let me be blunt: Elvis was too stubborn and, quite frankly, too stupid to realise the tailspin he was in and to ask for help.[/b][/u]



No, I said he was too stupid to realise, not that he was necessarily stupid overall.


Makes me think of Forrest Gump....."stupid is as stupid does.":lmfao::lmfao:

utmom2008
04-17-2009, 12:52 PM
Getlo, it amazes me how much knowledge you have are you sure your not elvis...lol

elvislady:D:D


That's the thing........

He isn't.......
:lol:He isn't what? Elvis?;):lol:

I know you where.


What does that mean Jess?:doh::blush:

Princesspixie
04-17-2009, 01:32 PM
Elvis said on stage a few times that the stories in the media about his addictions were all lies, I was just wondering if any of the fans here feel annoyed that Elvis lied ..in a very public way...

I do not mean to disrespect Elvis I am a huge fan but i have often wondered why he did this

TCE
jilly

utmom2008
04-17-2009, 01:40 PM
I was just wondering if any of the fans here feel annoyed that Elvis lied ..in a very public way...

I do not mean to disrespect Elvis I am a huge fan but i have often wondered why he did this

TCE
jilly

He did this for 2 reasons I think. One....he was in complete denial, he thought he was still in control of the drugs rather than the drugs being in control of him.:blush: Two....he probably thought the fans would be mortified to discover he had an addiction and was fearful that he would lose all of his fans.

kathy parkinson
04-17-2009, 02:03 PM
I'd go along with that Roseanne.

midnight
04-17-2009, 02:09 PM
He did this for 2 reasons I think. One....he was in complete denial, he thought he was still in control of the drugs rather than the drugs being in control of him.:blush: Two....he probably thought the fans would be mortified to discover he had an addiction and was fearful that he would lose all of his fans.

(y)(y)(y)(y)

Getlo
04-17-2009, 08:53 PM
Getlo, you might see this has a compliment....but sometimes you just tick me off!! You have the perfect way of just irritating me!!! I am not saying this to be rude, I actually find it somewhat amusing!:lol:

Thank you.

Then my work here is done. :lmfao:

Getlo
04-17-2009, 09:00 PM
Elvis said on stage a few times that the stories in the media about his addictions were all lies, I was just wondering if any of the fans here feel annoyed that Elvis lied ..

You need to remember that, from Elvis' own point of view, he wasn't lying.

In his eyes, he wasn't an addict. His drugs were prescribed so that made them "okay".

The stories about him being messed up on coke were lies, but they did have some basis in truth. Many people who saw his erratic behaviour made the assumption that he was on street drugs, which is understandable.

Prescription drug addiction was still a mostly hidden problem back then. People assumed that because he was a rock star that he did rock star drugs.

Elvis, like all true addicts, lived in denial. His drug-fuelled, rambling and - it must be said - rather embarrassing on-stage tirades offer the perfect example of this denial. They make for uncomfortable listening, but are still a fascinating insight into the 70s Elvis and, to a lesser extent, the 70s drug culture.


he probably thought the fans would be mortified to discover he had an addiction and was fearful that he would lose all of his fans.

And that's the greatest irony of the life of Elvis Presley. Had the truth come out in, say, '74 or whatever, 99% of fans would have said "Okay Elvis, get yourself well, and we'll se you again when you're healthy". Yes, we'd have all been disappointed, but sympathetic.

Had this happened - or had he lived to see the full impact of What Happened - then he'd probably still be with us.

And being disappointed and hurt by Elvis while watching him fight his addictions would have been a better alternative than what we ended up with: millions of fans around the world gutted when he fell off the twig in '77.

rickb
04-17-2009, 10:01 PM
Elvis was NOT lying when he claimed on stage during that infamous September 1974 rant that he was not on cocaine/drugs. To be lying he would have had to realise he had a drug problem and it is very clear that in Elvis' mind he was using prescribed drugs that were `needed'. In retrospect he was clearly in denial but that doesn't make him a liar. If he was lying that was his most convincing piece of acting

Lindagtz
04-17-2009, 11:29 PM
I think that is why God chose him-his beautiful voice, face, charisma,etc. only someone so special like him could carry with that image of being ELVIS PRESLEY & hide all his burdens, worries, fears & find comfort in Jesus Christ & in praying. He gave ALL to his fans, no matter how bad he felt, always trying to do his best. If he spent every penny, GREAT FOR HIM, the man deserved it!!..& the result giving all his energy & love to his audience is that we still miss him, love him so much, after more than 30 years of his dead...again- he deserves it.

Lindagtz
04-17-2009, 11:38 PM
NOP- He was not lying. He needed the drugs for several health problems he developed through his life- Let's remember since he was born, he was a sickly boy...but in certain point in his life, he lost control of them & needed more & more. Addiction?- sadly yes.

Merry
04-18-2009, 03:05 AM
I dont think he is misrepresented because what people say about him has come from somewhere or someone has the knowledge to know this info.... i think its clear to see that elvis himself was not perfect and i am sure if he was around he would be the first to admit that... i think we all have to agree to disagree but i like the fact that we all have diffrent views on elvis!
elvislady:D


I know he is misrepresented. Stories were changed to add more drama. It stinks.

No-one is perfect (well, only one). Our mistakes and learning from them, is what makes us human, I agree.

Merry
04-18-2009, 03:07 AM
Thank you, but no I am not Elvis. Thankfully.



Some choose to deny the very truth before them ... ;)



Correct, as I am usually right.

:smoke:




In the past, I have corrected you on what you've said, from what I've been told first hand, and you've been "strangely quiet", afterwards.

Merry
04-18-2009, 03:08 AM
:lol:He isn't what? Elvis?;):lol:


What does that mean Jess?:doh::blush:


Haa haaa

......

midnight
04-18-2009, 06:00 AM
Thank you.

Then my work here is done. :lmfao:

See, you did it again!!!:lol:

midnight
04-18-2009, 06:04 AM
Elvis was NOT lying when he claimed on stage during that infamous September 1974 rant that he was not on cocaine/drugs. To be lying he would have had to realise he had a drug problem and it is very clear that in Elvis' mind he was using prescribed drugs that were `needed'. In retrospect he was clearly in denial but that doesn't make him a liar. If he was lying that was his most convincing piece of acting

Good post, rickb.(y) I agree.

Princesspixie
04-18-2009, 11:54 AM
thanks for your replys on my comment I found your feelings on this really interesting Getlo I have to say you gave the best reply,

I guess Elvis just thought that because they were prescription and his doctor was giving them to him that he was doing nothing wrong, I guess he was right to a certain extent-

then he seemed to go abit over the top with them and take too many, I guess when he started combining drugs thats when everything went wrong...mixing drugs is risky business he must have been so ill at the time and personally I think he was really depressed.

It's just a shame to know if he didn't take those kind of risks he might still be here today singing his heart out

utmom2008
04-18-2009, 12:42 PM
Haa haaa

......

Huh?????? I still don't get it.:doh::unsure::unsure::doh:

Merry
04-18-2009, 12:43 PM
Hi Princesspixie,

It was a common practice in those days, for Doctors to prescribe Prescription Medication for anyone.

A lot of people in those days, were on, as an example, Valium. People also took Bex as a habit, which was eventually taken off the market.

The Doctors, themselves, didn't know any better at the time.

Princesspixie
04-18-2009, 02:28 PM
yea your right about that jess my grandmother got hooked on valium the doctor gave her it for her nerves...bad idea

Getlo
04-18-2009, 07:58 PM
I think that is why God chose him-his beautiful voice, face, charisma,etc. only someone so special like him could carry with that image of being ELVIS PRESLEY

If it hadn't have been Elvis, it would have been someone else - and rock'n'roll would be somewhat different to what it is now, and what it was back in the 50s.

That's life. Stuff happens.

I, of course, do not believe in God. But if He/She/It exists, I'm sure He/She/It would have far better things to do than to "choose" a person to help bring rock'n'roll to the world.

Getlo
04-18-2009, 08:01 PM
In the past, I have corrected you on what you've said, from what I've been told first hand, and you've been "strangely quiet", afterwards.

You are either mistaken or outright lying.

Please provide even one example where you have corrected me or where I have been "strangely quiet" afterwards.

Just one.

Good luck, because you won't find any.

If ever I have been corrected, it would be by someone with extensive knowledge of the man, his music and his career.

I'll be waiting for your examples. Take your time.

Getlo
04-18-2009, 08:02 PM
Huh?????? I still don't get it.:doh::unsure::unsure::doh:

No one does, Roseanne ... ;)

shelley.m.
04-18-2009, 08:14 PM
He did this for 2 reasons I think. One....he was in complete denial, he thought he was still in control of the drugs rather than the drugs being in control of him.:blush: Two....he probably thought the fans would be mortified to discover he had an addiction and was fearful that he would lose all of his fans.

I completely agree with what Rosanne said.

Merry
04-18-2009, 08:29 PM
You are either mistaken or outright lying.

Please provide even one example where you have corrected me or where I have been "strangely quiet" afterwards.

Just one.

Good luck, because you won't find any.

If ever I have been corrected, it would be by someone with extensive knowledge of the man, his music and his career.

I'll be waiting for your examples. Take your time.



I'm not a liar, and I don't have time to go through nearly a few years of posts, 1000's of them, and you know it.

Remember the person who asked you to leave her/him alone, due to being scared of you, which you totally denied; that person then had to remind you via PM to leave him/her alone? Short memory.

LOL, Getlo, you don't know who anyone is on here. You never will.

Your arrogance and ego is amaziing, I'll leave you with it, although at times, I admit, I feel sorry for you.

Mods, I will not reply any further, I am not going to get involved in further negativity, which seems to be the mantra of some who partake in the threads. (Boy are the same people always so fast to jump in there, too).

However, I take exception to people running Elvis down, when he isn't able to defend himself, and yes, I will always defend him, with help, from those who love him.

Getlo
04-18-2009, 08:38 PM
I don't have time to go through nearly a few years of posts

Nor the courage, it seems. Either give an example, or apologise for the accusation. There are plenty of posts where you and I have gone back'n'forth, so it shouldn't take too much time to find where you have "corrected" me and I have "gone quiet".

"Gone quiet" ... me? Please.


Your arrogance and ego is amaziing (sic)

Isn't it though? :D


However, I take exception to people running Elvis down, when he isn't able to defend himself, and yes, I will always defend him, with help, from those who love him.

So now I'm running Elvis down? Again, feel free to share where I've done this.

Back to the topic: putting oneself in Elvis' shoes.

Elvis often arced up when accused of something he didn't do, so I guess I'm walking in the great man's shoes right now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Kimmi. ;)

-----

And before there is the usual warning about personal comments, I respectfully refer the Mods to posts 51 and 53 on this thread.

Getlo
04-18-2009, 08:41 PM
Elvis was NOT lying when he claimed on stage during that infamous September 1974 rant that he was not on cocaine/drugs. To be lying he would have had to realise he had a drug problem and it is very clear that in Elvis' mind he was using prescribed drugs that were `needed'. In retrospect he was clearly in denial but that doesn't make him a liar. If he was lying that was his most convincing piece of acting

I think though that, deep deep down, he knew he was lying ... especially to himself.

Genie
04-18-2009, 09:20 PM
:angry:
You are either mistaken or outright lying.

Please provide even one example where you have corrected me or where I have been "strangely quiet" afterwards.

Just one.

Good luck, because you won't find any.

If ever I have been corrected, it would be by someone with extensive knowledge of the man, his music and his career.

I'll be waiting for your examples. Take your time.

:angry: Getlo! Jess is completely right, shall we read every post you have typed out? Every one Jess and I have posted!?
You actually had to place in here that you do not believe in God... it is your choice, but it explaimns why you do not get along with Jess and I...
We love God, we BELIEVE! And so did Elvis. Possibly you could stop attacking Jess and talk to someone who cares?:king:

Brian
04-18-2009, 09:43 PM
He was too lazy to, among other things, make truly decent music more often than he did. The movie rut of the 60s. The concert rut of the 70s. Who knows what the 80s and beyond would have brought to the table?


I see the 80's for Elvis as a basic continuation of what he was doing in the
70's. Country music was very popular in the U.S. in the mid 70's and early
80's and since Elvis had real good chart placings on the U.S. country charts during the 70's and enjoyed that kind of music I see him recording a lot of country albums throughout 80's along with doing a lot of ballads and he most likely would've put out at least one gospel record.

Whether that's good or bad depends on how you look at it.

I also see him attempting to make a comeback into movies this time with an eye on serious roles but how successful he would've been is hard to say

utmom2008
04-18-2009, 10:46 PM
:angry:
You actually had to place in here that you do not believe in God... it is your choice, but it explaimns why you do not get along with Jess and I...

Actually, I don't think God has anything to do with why you don't get along.;):lol:


Possibly you could stop attacking Jess and talk to someone who cares?:king:

Didn't this all start with Jess telling Elvislady that he wasn't all that knowledgeable? Read back through the posts...that's how it appears to me.:blush::blink::unsure:

Genie
04-19-2009, 12:31 AM
You're kidding.

His mother died 19 years before he did. I think we can safely say he was over the initial shock and tragedy of it all.

Divorce? Traumatic, sure. But so what? Thousands - millions! - of people divorce every year.

By comparison to most people in the real world, Elvis' problems didn't amount to a hill of beans (with a nod to Casablanca here).

:blink: Are you even an Elvis fan Getlo? What discusting remarks come off your fingertips.....

Sonny
04-19-2009, 07:03 AM
Okay friends, we all had our say by now, so leave it at that please.

And go back to discussing Elvis, and not each other...

EnigmaticSun
04-19-2009, 10:11 AM
You're hitting the nail on the head there, Sonny. I think some members were actually trying just to defend themselves..

I don't think any person dies before his or her time. And I don't understand why some members worship his death rather than celebrating his life.

Sonny
04-19-2009, 11:10 AM
Like I said, talk about our man, not each other, no matter in what way we might disagree... Be polite and show respect.

And I do mean everybody...

KPM
04-19-2009, 01:33 PM
The question of putting yourself in Elvis's shoes-is very hard to do.
There was only one Elvis-there is only one of each of us then we die.
His shoes were his alone-we can guess, we can use logic, we can defend or crucify him for his actions and his life. But no one will ever be able to put themselves into his shoes with any real weight or authority.
Whats hard and stressful to you may not be to me-and visa versa. Its simple to me.
Some want to make him a saint who did no wrong-others imply he was always wrong & everything in his life was of his own making-IMO neither is correct... In "my opinion".
I know how I would react to some of his life-you know how you might react-but no one knows how he came to his decisions or the process of thought he had.
So this question is one of "guessing" filtered by our own experiences, education and thought processes. All of those things are different for each person here-they always will be.

midnight
04-19-2009, 01:40 PM
The question of putting yourself in Elvis's shoes-is very hard to do.
There was only one Elvis-there is only one of each of us then we die.
His shoes were his alone-we can guess, we can use logic, we can defend or crucify him for his actions and his life. But no one will ever be able to put themselves into his shoes with any real weight or authority.
Whats hard and stressful to you may not be to me-and visa versa. Its simple to me.
Some want to make him a saint who did no wrong-others imply he was always wrong & everything in his life was of his own making-IMO neither is correct... In "my opinion".
I know how I would react to some of his life-you know how you might react-but no one knows how he came to his decisions or the process of thought he had.
So this question is one of "guessing" filtered by our own experiences, education and thought processes. All of those things are different for each person here-they always will be.

Excellent post. You are so true in what you said!(y)(y)(y)

Jumpsuit Junkie
04-19-2009, 01:57 PM
I don't think any person dies before his or her time. And I don't understand why some members worship his death rather than celebrating his life.

Very interesting comment, I agree that nobody dies before their time unless their lifestyle contributes in some way. I suppose there is some argument to say that family genetics play some part but Elvis' father out lived him so we then have to look to the mother, without being cruel I think that Gladys had her addictions which lead to her untimely demise.

The fact that Elvis died so young is an intrinsic part of the legacy, its difficult to separate the tragedy of Elvis' life from the monumental landmarks he achieved. I suppose that Elvis's life was made up of equal portions of magnificence and tragedy, which one draws you to Elvis is inconsequential, the fact you are a fan has to mean that you are not simply drawn to the negative but enjoy the many facets of his career.

There are two very different fans however, those who simply adore and praise every single facet of Elvis' achievements and lifestyle and will absolutely abhor any negative comment about their hero, then there is the fan who will view Elvis' life and career in a pragmatic way, without feeling the need for protectionism. Neither view has priority IMO, opinions are like noses, everybody has one. It is clear to me that fans seem to have more personal issues with each other than they do Elvis?

KPM
04-19-2009, 02:00 PM
Very interesting comment, I agree that nobody dies before their time unless their lifestyle contributes in some way. I suppose there is some argument to say that family genetics play some part but Elvis' father out lived him so we then have to look to the mother, without being cruel I think that Gladys had her addictions which lead to her untimely demise.

The fact that Elvis died so young is an intrinsic part of the legacy, its difficult to separate the tragedy of Elvis' life from the monumental landmarks he achieved. I suppose that Elvis's life was made up of equal portions of magnificence and tragedy, which one draws you to Elvis is inconsequential, the fact you are a fan has to mean that you are not simply drawn to the negative but enjoy the many facets of his career.

There are two very different fans however, those who simply adore and praise every single facet of Elvis' achievements and lifestyle and will absolutely abhor any negative comment about their hero, then there is the fan who will view Elvis' life and career in a pragmatic way, without feeling the need for protectionism. Neither view has priority IMO, opinions are like noses, everybody has one. It is clear to me that fans seem to have more personal issues with each other than they do Elvis?

Greek Tragedy-has nothing on the life and death of Elvis.
Mountains and valleys-in extreme.

EnigmaticSun
04-19-2009, 02:17 PM
Neither view has priority IMO, opinions are like noses, everybody has one. It is clear to me that fans seem to have more personal issues with each other than they do Elvis?

Yes, this seems to be true. It hurts some Elvis-fans the way others treat him the way that they do.. Err.. isn't it better to have witnessed an Elvis rather than never having had any at all..?

Some might say he led a lazy life, but I think he got to work himself to the bone in the 1970's and he sacrificed himself. He certainly had so much to give, yet so little to receive.

I regard Elvis as a man, not as some infallible supercomputer. I don't think fans (?) should take the role of public accuser though. There are enough of those outside of the Elvis-universe. :)

utmom2008
04-19-2009, 02:23 PM
The question of putting yourself in Elvis's shoes-is very hard to do.
I know how I would react to some of his life-you know how you might react-but no one knows how he came to his decisions or the process of thought he had.
So this question is one of "guessing" filtered by our own experiences, education and thought processes. All of those things are different for each person here-they always will be.

Once again Ken, you made perfect sense!(y)(y)(y)

Miss Clawdy
04-19-2009, 02:53 PM
Great posts, Ken and Matt (y)!

Merry
04-19-2009, 03:08 PM
Very interesting comment, I agree that nobody dies before their time unless their lifestyle contributes in some way. I suppose there is some argument to say that family genetics play some part but Elvis' father out lived him so we then have to look to the mother, without being cruel I think that Gladys had her addictions which lead to her untimely demise.

The fact that Elvis died so young is an intrinsic part of the legacy, its difficult to separate the tragedy of Elvis' life from the monumental landmarks he achieved. I suppose that Elvis's life was made up of equal portions of magnificence and tragedy, which one draws you to Elvis is inconsequential, the fact you are a fan has to mean that you are not simply drawn to the negative but enjoy the many facets of his career.

There are two very different fans however, those who simply adore and praise every single facet of Elvis' achievements and lifestyle and will absolutely abhor any negative comment about their hero, then there is the fan who will view Elvis' life and career in a pragmatic way, without feeling the need for protectionism. Neither view has priority IMO, opinions are like noses, everybody has one. It is clear to me that fans seem to have more personal issues with each other than they do Elvis?



Matt,

I think you read what you want to read from what I say, and miss what I say.

No human is perfect, nor should be held up, as same (only one can be, and that is Jesus Christ). We all make mistakes, some learn from them, some don't.

However, when fans read a book, and then add their own life experience or project through others, to run others down, I object, as what they are doing, is as plain as the nose on your face. They (broadly speaking, I'm not picking anyone out) are projecting. I saw it on alt.elvis.king with the people who came in to stir trouble, and the people who set themselves up with whatever they want to do to make themselves feel better.

The books were written to make money, what was quoted in some were a projection from the story teller, that is then projected as fact. It isn't.

There is a twisting of my words here in this thread, which I can't be bothered to get into, and you know what they were. It's easy for people to do. Which is another perfect example, of how Elvis' life has been twisted to meet the needs of the story teller's agenda, in some cases.

Look, Elvis wasn't perfect, I don't like perfect, then that person has no empathy, no life experience, no interest, and isn't a nice person. That isn't Elvis, we know that very well. Elvis was humble, giving, loving, caring, and misrepresented!

No-one, should set themselves up as an "Elvis Expert". It's impossible, and should be stopped, immediately.

Elvis' closest friends don't consider themselves experts. I bet, if Elvis wasn't gone, he himself, perhaps may not remember all that happened, and that is good, as no-one is perfect..............blahhhhhhhhhhhh by the way, for those who want that/think that perfect is the way, I don't like it, it's just wrong.

I hope you finally get me!

Elvis was a good man, and he is misrepresented. That is wrong.

utmom2008
04-19-2009, 03:37 PM
The books were written to make money, what was quoted in some were a projection from the story teller, that is then projected as fact. It isn't.

The flip side to this though is that some of the "facts" that are projected through the books are indeed just that...FACTS. When 90% of the stories are basically told the same way you have to know that there is some truth to the story. Obviously there are people that want to read about these stories or the books wouldn't sell. Just because I am able to accept and talk about Elvis' shortcomings does not mean that I love him any less than the fan who refuses to believe any of the "stories.":blush:


No-one, should set themselves up as an "Elvis Expert". It's impossible, and should be stopped, immediately.

How can you stop someone from feeling they are knowledgeable?:supriced::supriced:


Elvis was a good man, and he is misrepresented. That is wrong.


Yes, Elvis was a great man!!! But, just like everyone of us, he had some faults too. Is it wrong to discuss the "not so great side"? Or, should we only talk about the "great" side? IMO, for me, both sides of Elvis are what help to make him "Elvis." :blush:

elvislady
04-19-2009, 03:52 PM
I think if you are a tom jones fan, or a micheal jackson fan ect if you were on there forums you will see the same sort of comments... it does not mean that we dont care about them any less! i have said it before we are all human elvis included, and he just happens to be the topic of our converstions.
elvislady:)

utmom2008
04-19-2009, 04:03 PM
I think if you are a tom jones fan, or a micheal jackson fan ect if you were on there forums you will see the same sort of comments... it does not mean that we dont care about them any less!


I agree! And, we(Elvis fans) should consider ourselves very fortunate that we don't have some of Michael Jackson's issues to discuss where Elvis is concerned!:lol::lol:(y)

Jungleroom76
04-19-2009, 04:35 PM
No-one, should set themselves up as an "Elvis Expert". It's impossible, and should be stopped, immediately.

While I admit that no one should bill themselves as an "Elvis Expert", we all have knowledge of Elvis in one form or another that we want to share with everyone here....THAT is the purpose of the forum...to express our thoughts about Elvis and share information and knowledge about Elvis with each other.

Let's please keep this in mind everyone!!! EVERYONE here is entitled to their own opinions about Elvis and should be able to express those opinions WITHOUT fear of being harassed, bashed or insulted.

TCB!
Mike

Merry
04-19-2009, 05:31 PM
While I admit that no one should bill themselves as an "Elvis Expert", we all have knowledge of Elvis in one form or another that we want to share with everyone here....THAT is the purpose of the forum...to express our thoughts about Elvis and share information and knowledge about Elvis with each other.

Let's please keep this in mind everyone!!! EVERYONE here is entitled to their own opinions about Elvis and should be able to express those opinions WITHOUT fear of being harassed, bashed or insulted.

TCB!
Mike




While I admit that no one should bill themselves as an "Elvis Expert",

This is all I was saying, all along. We don't want young members taking an opinion, emphatically stated, as truth.

My words have been twisted several times by others, I have not responded, due to respect for the Rules and other members.

Jumpsuit Junkie
04-20-2009, 12:22 AM
Yes, this seems to be true. It hurts some Elvis-fans the way others treat him the way that they do.. Err.. isn't it better to have witnessed an Elvis rather than never having had any at all..?

Of course we would rather of had Elvis, but people should be able to discuss all facets of his life just as much as those who wish to discuss his good looks or his underwear (thread a couple of weeks ago).



Some might say he led a lazy life, but I think he got to work himself to the bone in the 1970's and he sacrificed himself. He certainly had so much to give, yet so little to receive.

IMO Elvis had a lot to recieve, it would be disingenuous to say Elvis didn't enjoy the praise from his fans nor the trappings of fame, it is probably because he got all these things that led him to live the lifestyle that he did.



I regard Elvis as a man, not as some infallible supercomputer. I don't think fans (?) should take the role of public accuser though. There are enough of those outside of the Elvis-universe. :)

As I stated earlier, there are two camps of Elvis fans, each should be aloud to express themselves. Why would someone come back week after week to express their opinions if they weren't a fan?


Matt,

I think you read what you want to read from what I say, and miss what I say.

Sorry Jess I wasn't commenting on your posts.....



This is all I was saying, all along. We don't want young members taking an opinion, emphatically stated, as truth.

There is a level of assumption here, why do you feel young members are unable in this day and age to make reasoned judgements? If young members are able to log on to the internet, I'm sure this isn't the only place they will gather there information from :hmm:



My words have been twisted several times by others, I have not responded, due to respect for the Rules and other members.

It seems like we have been down this path several times already, without wanting to sound flippant, we have moderators on the board who have been assigned the moral crusaders. It is their job to moderate what is appropriate or not. With help from members of the board who can report a post for its content. The moderating team is as diverse as the members who participate on here so there is generally no favouritism.

What we cannot accept is people who report posts but also contribute to the argument? There is a small nucleus of members who report each other, I'm sure we all know who these individuals are. The question I have to ask is why do they feel it necessary to repeatedly bash each others posts?

The easiest way to avoid an argument is to not get involved in the first place.

Getlo
04-20-2009, 03:40 AM
:angry::angry: Getlo! Jess is completely right, shall we read every post you have typed out? Every one Jess and I have posted!?

No, just take the time to find one post where she's corrected me. Or you, for that matter.

My information has occasionally been corrected her in the past, but certainly not from either of you.


You actually had to place in here that you do not believe in God... it is your choice, but it explaimns why you do not get along with Jess and I...

Since I don't believe in God, the fact that I don't get on with you and she can be explained by more rational thought. It's your personalities.


We love God, we BELIEVE! And so did Elvis.

Hallelujah. Sing it, sister! :notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

Nice to have you back ... :rolleyes:

Getlo
04-20-2009, 03:42 AM
:blink: Are you even an Elvis fan Getlo? What discusting (sic) remarks come off your fingertips.....

My comments stand.

Divorce, money health problems are things which millions of people around the world face each and every day.

Getlo
04-20-2009, 03:44 AM
There are two very different fans however, those who simply adore and praise every single facet of Elvis' achievements and lifestyle and will absolutely abhor any negative comment about their hero

And the second type of fan are the ones who can't see that not all of the truthful comments about Elvis are negative.

Jumpsuit Junkie
04-20-2009, 03:47 AM
No, just take the time to find one post where she's corrected me. Or you, for that matter.

My information has occasionally been corrected her in the past, but certainly not from either of you.



Since I don't believe in God, the fact that I don't get on with you and she can be explained by more rational thought. It's your personalities.



Hallelujah. Sing it, sister! :notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

Nice to have you back ... :rolleyes:

Not sure why you feel the need to stoke the fires here Getlo :hmm:

Can we please refrain from this tit-for-tat responses to posts :excl:

Getlo
04-20-2009, 03:47 AM
This is all I was saying, all along. We don't want young members taking an opinion, emphatically stated, as truth.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Don't we?

When a fact is given - and it can be backed up with references, books etc - then it is the truth.

Getlo
04-20-2009, 03:48 AM
Not sure why you feel the need to stoke the fires here Getlo :hmm:

Can we please refrain from this tit-for-tat responses to posts :excl:

Genie titted, I tatted.

The conversation between Jess and I was none of her business.

elvislady
04-20-2009, 03:49 AM
some people need to get there head out of the sand and see elvis for what he was a good all round entertainer with a big heart, and a lot of issues that does not mean i like him any less, its a fact!
elvislady :D

Merry
04-20-2009, 04:01 AM
Genie titted, I tatted.

The conversation between Jess and I was none of her business.



Same as Rosanne, Getlo.

Merry
04-20-2009, 04:03 AM
Don't we?

When a fact is given - and it can be backed up with references, books etc - then it is the truth.


You have to admit, that you yourself don't like using Marty Lacker as a source, sometimes you do, sometimes, you don't.

Marty Lacker has twisted my words. Nature of the beast.

Jumpsuit Junkie
04-20-2009, 04:12 AM
Marty Lacker has twisted my words. Nature of the beast.

I'm curious as to why Marty Lacker would have twisted your words?

Getlo
04-20-2009, 04:13 AM
You have to admit, that you yourself don't like using Marty Lacker as a source, sometimes you do, sometimes, you don't.

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

Lacker's individual (ie original) stories can mostly be taken with a grain of salt. When his other stories are a variation of what's been said by many others, they can be considered accurate.


Same as Rosanne, Getlo.

Roseanne was responding to Genie, not to me.

And Genie's post was a personal attack: one, I might add, that had been left up on the site without a Mod warning for around 30 hours.

Merry
04-20-2009, 04:15 AM
What's that got to do with the price of fish?

Lacker's individual (ie original) stories can mostly be taken with a grain of salt. When his other stories are a variation of what's been said by many others, they can be considered accurate.


Except they contradict each other in their story telling, in the same book.

Getlo
04-20-2009, 04:16 AM
I'm curious as to why Marty Lacker would have twisted your words?

Snap.

I was just going to ask that myself ...

Getlo
04-20-2009, 04:16 AM
Except they contradict each other in their story telling, in the same book.

Examples ... ?

Merry
04-20-2009, 04:18 AM
Examples ... ?


It's in "Revelations". Interviews, as well.

Merry
04-20-2009, 04:19 AM
I'm curious as to why Marty Lacker would have twisted your words?



On a.e.k., no big deal.

Getlo
04-20-2009, 04:28 AM
It's in "Revelations". Interviews, as well.

Again, specific examples ... how/where do they contradict each other?

I'm not talking about differing opinions about certain stories, but actual contradictions.

Jumpsuit Junkie
04-20-2009, 04:39 AM
Marty Lacker has twisted my words. Nature of the beast.


On a.e.k., no big deal.

I don't mean to push this, however if Marty Lacker has responded to your words, I take it you challenged an event that he says has taken place?

Is this the same event you have PM'd me about in the past?

Was Genie the person who says that this event didn't happen the way it has been described and did Marty know who challenged his version of event's?

I would expect Marty to stick up for himself if someone he doesn't know made these allegations...


This is all I was saying, all along. We don't want young members taking an opinion, emphatically stated, as truth.

I'm not a Marty fan, however you have to explain the circumstances otherwise the comment you made is out of context.

Merry
04-20-2009, 06:42 AM
I don't mean to push this, however if Marty Lacker has responded to your words, I take it you challenged an event that he says has taken place?

Is this the same event you have PM'd me about in the past?

Was Genie the person who says that this event didn't happen the way it has been described and did Marty know who challenged his version of event's?

I would expect Marty to stick up for himself if someone he doesn't know made these allegations...



I'm not a Marty fan, however you have to explain the circumstances otherwise the comment you made is out of context.



It is all on AEK, I'm not saying any more than is on there.

It was all to do with me being given the order of events of a story, from someone who was present at the time with Elvis, (no, not Genie) in reply to Marty Lacker's telling of this story in "Revelations", which was told in such a way, to be completely wrong. The story came out in their book as how the situation wasn't.

The original story teller to Marty Lacker, wasn't even in the room, but the story was told in the book, as he was. The person who gave me the information from their side of the story, who was actually present in the room, wanted me to make sure that the fans knew the real story.

Marty Lacker didn't like it, he knew what I was relaying was from some-one who was there, he couldn't figure out who was helping me. The person wished to be anonymous and will always be for their good reasons.

You may remember that there was a poster on TCB who was banned some years ago, who took it upon himself, to inform people who he thought Elvis was. What he was saying, was down right liable, if Elvis wasn't gone, and wrong.

In that context, if someone says something emphatically, it seems to be the case (remember the saying if you hear something three times, you think it is true) that if some fans hear it often enough, it is believed to be the truth. It's not giving an opinion, in these cases, as it is said with such conviction, that unless people know otherwise, they may believe.

In the above context, that is why I become concerned. I know for a fact, that some of these ahhhh "Bibles" written by those who write them with juicy bits for the Publisher to sell the book; some people think these books (which are repeated by other writers, too, their sources are the original book, so in some cases, no, it's not several writers, but those taking excerpts from the original) are the be all and end all. They are not always factually true.

EnigmaticSun
04-20-2009, 08:53 AM
IMO Elvis had a lot to recieve, it would be disingenuous to say Elvis didn't enjoy the praise from his fans nor the trappings of fame, it is probably because he got all these things that led him to live the lifestyle that he did.

You are formulating your thesis from a materialist point of view. There's something else that couldn't be replaced by fame or fortune. Besides, his wealth was like a belly-laugh compared to the powers that be. :king:Wealth will always remain a belly-laugh if it's acquired with sincere intentions.

The man was lonely and it's cutting the curve too short to shove all the blame on him. Even a king knows what it's like, still the fans loved him no matter what his short-comings could have been. As has been mentioned before, it'll never match up with a Michael Jackson kind of magnitude.

What I like about him is that it was very clear how he thought or felt. A political figure is more likely to be hypocritical, politically correct, gray and spineless. But coming to think of Elvis, he wouldn't have said one thing while meaning just the opposite.

Donut
04-20-2009, 09:17 AM
The question of putting yourself in Elvis's shoes-is very hard to do.
There was only one Elvis-there is only one of each of us then we die.


I know there is just one Elvis but I don't think we are that different at all. When you know how a person react to happenings in his life, hear his commentaries and know how his life evolve you can have at least an idea of what that person must have thought and felt, or so I think...

utmom2008
04-20-2009, 03:35 PM
Mods, I will not reply any further, I am not going to get involved in further negativity, which seems to be the mantra of some who partake in the threads. (Boy are the same people always so fast to jump in there, too).



Same as Rosanne, Getlo.

Then why are you tossing my name around?:doh::unsure::blink:

utmom2008
04-20-2009, 03:46 PM
Of course we would rather of had Elvis, but people should be able to discuss all facets of his life just as much as those who wish to discuss his good looks or his underwear (thread a couple of weeks ago).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I remeber it is we really didn't get to discuss his underwear.:blush:It seems like the thread was closed and we were told not to start another one on the same topic.:blink::blink::unsure:

utmom2008
04-20-2009, 03:49 PM
It is all on AEK, I'm not saying any more than is on there.

It was all to do with me being given the order of events of a story, from someone who was present at the time with Elvis, (no, not Genie) in reply to Marty Lacker's telling of this story in "Revelations", which was told in such a way, to be completely wrong. The story came out in their book as how the situation wasn't.

The original story teller to Marty Lacker, wasn't even in the room, but the story was told in the book, as he was. The person who gave me the information from their side of the story, who was actually present in the room, wanted me to make sure that the fans knew the real story.


OK.....now I'm totally lost!:blink::unsure:

Jumpsuit Junkie
04-20-2009, 04:55 PM
You are formulating your thesis from a materialist point of view.

Are you seriously saying that material wealth didn't affect Elvis :blink: I don't wish to be rude but Elvis was all about wealth and flamboyance. Not to say that he wasn't capable of deep soul searching and kindness, these instances were well documented.



The man was lonely and it's cutting the curve too short to shove all the blame on him. Even a king knows what it's like, still the fans loved him no matter what his short-comings could have been. As has been mentioned before, it'll never match up with a Michael Jackson kind of magnitude.

No-one is putting all the blame on Elvis, although he is not blameless either, we all have to take accountability for ourselves. There are stars of similar magnitude who have had similar life experiences and come through the other end. So yes Elvis had his part to play.



What I like about him is that it was very clear how he thought or felt. A political figure is more likely to be hypocritical, politically correct, gray and spineless. But coming to think of Elvis, he wouldn't have said one thing while meaning just the opposite.

:blink::blink::blink:

Jumpsuit Junkie
04-20-2009, 05:12 PM
[/b]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I remeber it is we really didn't get to discuss his underwear.:blush:It seems like the thread was closed and we were told not to start another one on the same topic.:blink::blink::unsure:


Rosanne, you know full well that this thread was closed due to members getting personal, it's always the same, three or four pages in and then it's fisticuffs and the a moderator has to respond to 3-4 reported posts because certain individuals can't civil to each other. Now if you can suggest a way to stop people sabotaging a thread please fell free to share..

Getlo
04-20-2009, 09:42 PM
Rosanne, you know full well that this thread was closed due to members getting personal

That's not how I read it.

Someone made the claim that Elvis never wore undies.

I disputed that claim ... with photographic evidence, I might add.

A few comments were thrown about.

A warning was issued.

The thread then continued with innocuous comments, and then something about Freedom of Speech.

Then it was closed.

http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread.php?t=27363&page=5&highlight=underwear

PS: Is anyone else having trouble adding pics to threads at the moment? The icon to do so isn't coming up for me today.

utmom2008
04-20-2009, 09:45 PM
Rosanne, you know full well that this thread was closed due to members getting personal,

To be honest Matt, no, I didn't remember much of the details on that thread. What I do remember though, as I thought it was funny, was the argument that started over the infamous pic of Elvis in the black pants!:supriced: I remember the posts about this pic being "unguarded", and wether or not that meant Elvis had on underwear. :lol:

utmom2008
04-20-2009, 09:48 PM
The thread then continued with innocuous comments, and then something about Freedom of Speech.

Then it was closed.



Yes, I remember that too. I had forgotten about the Freedom of Speech comment.

utmom2008
04-20-2009, 09:52 PM
Now if you can suggest a way to stop people sabotaging a thread please fell free to share..

I'm not sure what constitutes "sabataging a thread." One day it's a "debate", the next day it's "sabatage." :blush::blink:

Getlo
04-20-2009, 09:57 PM
Certain threads are going to go off on TANGENTS.

The thread about Elvis' unguarded moment is a prime example ... a tangent about underwear was perfectly reasonable given the subject of Elvis' manhood being on unintentional display for all to see.

Getlo
04-20-2009, 10:06 PM
The moderating team is as diverse as the members who participate on here so there is generally no favouritism.

Should this not read "there is never any favouritism"?

utmom2008
04-20-2009, 10:30 PM
Certain threads are going to go off on TANGENTS.

The thread about Elvis' unguarded moment is a prime example ... a tangent about underwear was perfectly reasonable given the subject of Elvis' manhood being on unintentional display for all to see.


Even more so when you add to the mix that one member announced that Elvis told her personally that he did not wear underwear!:):lol:

elvislady
04-21-2009, 12:34 AM
I started the thread to show in the pic what we can all see, elvis and little elvis on gaurd! it was disscusion on what people thought about the pic, and yes did elvis or did elvis not wear underwear, if you look back on this forum most threads end up going off tangent because we all dont think the same... we are human we all have diffrent opinions! its obvious to me and others if someone claims to have been told personaly by that person "elvis! then people are going to question it.
elvislady;)

Jumpsuit Junkie
04-21-2009, 01:47 AM
That's not how I read it.

Someone made the claim that Elvis never wore undies.

I disputed that claim ... with photographic evidence, I might add.

A few comments were thrown about.

A warning was issued.

The thread then continued with innocuous comments, and then something about Freedom of Speech.

Then it was closed.


Then we are clearly in disagreement with to how the thread is perceived bearing in mind I wasn't the one who closed it, yet I agree fully with it's closing. On page four there are several deleted posts and the the flippant remark about freedom of speech and to top it off someone asks for the thread to be closed. Hardly innocuous.


I'm not sure what constitutes "sabataging a thread." One day it's a "debate", the next day it's "sabatage." :blush::blink:

Semantics, pure and simple. When two members who clearly don't get on 'have at it' in thread after thread is that debate?.... maybe, I would also say that it is sabotage.


Certain threads are going to go off on TANGENTS.

The thread about Elvis' unguarded moment is a prime example ... a tangent about underwear was perfectly reasonable given the subject of Elvis' manhood being on unintentional display for all to see.

I thought reading one of your posts that going off on tangents was one of you bug bears :hmm:


Should this not read "there is never any favouritism"?

People are always fond of saying Elvis was only human, surprise, surprise so too are the moderators. Some might say you have been given the benefit of the doubt on occasion.


Even more so when you add to the mix that one member announced that Elvis told her personally that he did not wear underwear!:):lol:

This comment is precisely what I am talking about, stoking the coals. When a negative response is returned for that comment you will question why??

Getlo
04-21-2009, 04:18 AM
I thought reading one of your posts that going off on tangents was one of you bug bears :hmm:

No, threads being closed when they go off on logical tangents or warnings about staying on topic when it's clearly a logical tangent is what gets my goat.

Getlo
04-21-2009, 04:24 AM
This comment is precisely what I am talking about, stoking the coals. When a negative response is returned for that comment you will question why??

It is hardly Roseanne "stoking the coals" if she questions a poster when they make a patently ludicrous statement that Elvis himself said to that poster that he did not wear underwear.

That, coupled with the poster saying she just happened to be there for opening night '69 and Indianapolis in '77 ("he was saying goodbye" :rolleyes:) simply begs to be queried.

EnigmaticSun
04-21-2009, 05:08 AM
Hey girls, I'm not trying to be rude, but.. Maybe it's for the better to accept that there are two types of fans. I don't know what to call my group, but we're probably to blind to see what was wrong with him. I don't think a psychiatrist could have helped him out though, they usually make it worse.

The other group - I'd call them the vivisectionists.

Getlo
04-21-2009, 05:49 AM
I don't think a psychiatrist could have helped him out though, they usually make it worse

No argument there.

Jumpsuit Junkie
04-21-2009, 05:57 AM
No, threads being closed when they go off on logical tangents or warnings about staying on topic when it's clearly a logical tangent is what gets my goat.

Bit like this thread then??


It is hardly Roseanne "stoking the coals" if she questions a poster when they make a patently ludicrous statement that Elvis himself said to that poster that he did not wear underwear.

That, coupled with the poster saying she just happened to be there for opening night '69 and Indianapolis in '77 ("he was saying goodbye" :rolleyes:) simply begs to be queried.

You are just being obtuse, you know full well what I meant, just in case you didn't I will simplify. The comment Rosanne made is exactly the comment that will incite a retort and hence start another petty squabble. That thread had been closed and now carried over to this one without justification and you are doing the same.

So shall we call it a day?

Getlo
04-21-2009, 07:29 AM
Bit like this thread then??

Only unless it is closed.


You are just being obtuse, you know full well what I meant

I am a lot of things, but one thing I am not is obtuse. And if I don't know what someone means, I will ask them directly to explain.

elvislady
04-21-2009, 07:55 AM
Hey girls, I'm not trying to be rude, but.. Maybe it's for the better to accept that there are two types of fans. I don't know what to call my group, but we're probably to blind to see what was wrong with him. I don't think a psychiatrist could have helped him out though, they usually make it worse.

The other group - I'd call them the vivisectionists.

I dont belong to a group...i listen to peoples comments and make up my own mind i dont always voice my opinion tho, maybe its a good job some of us dont ...lol the threads would be closing left write and centre. i have to say theres got to be a problem with you if you cant see that elvis had problems... we all have them!
elvislady;)

utmom2008
04-21-2009, 09:27 AM
It is hardly Roseanne "stoking the coals" if she questions a poster when they make a patently ludicrous statement that Elvis himself said to that poster that he did not wear underwear.

That, coupled with the poster saying she just happened to be there for opening night '69 and Indianapolis in '77 ("he was saying goodbye" :rolleyes:) simply begs to be queried.
Thank you Getlo, I'm glad someone gets it.



You are just being obtuse, you know full well what I meant,



I am a lot of things, but one thing I am not is obtuse. And if I don't know what someone means, I will ask them directly to explain.

I can't hear the word "obtuse" without thinking of The Shawshank Redemption. It clearly didn't work well for Tim Robbins character..."Andy.":lol:

utmom2008
04-21-2009, 09:34 AM
Semantics, pure and simple. When two members who clearly don't get on 'have at it' in thread after thread is that debate?.... maybe, I would also say that it is sabotage.

That being said...here is my question. You and Cameron clearly did not "get on", you were both very vocal about it. When Cameron posted that she knew Presidents on a first name basis you were right in there with us, page after page of demanding proof. It reached a point where she said "have a nice life", and we haven't seen her since(maybe?). Was that "sabatage", or was that "debate"? IMO ....we all were allowed to "have at it" because Cameron wasn't one of your favorites.

Tommy
04-21-2009, 09:54 AM
What happened to staying on topic...this was about 'Try to put yourself in Elvis' shoes"

Miss Clawdy
04-21-2009, 10:22 AM
On page four there are several deleted posts and the the flippant remark about freedom of speech....

Are you referring to one of my favourite remarks ;)? Which was by the way not meant flippant like you want to read it!

I think it's Everyone's right to express one's view not matter if others may not bear your opinion or disagree therein with you.

And when posts are being removed or threads closed...I might come to the conclusion that there is no Freedom of Speech allowed here, because the reasons why those actions are taken are really, excuse me....childish.

We are adults discussing Elvis and his concerns, do you think in 'real life' someone would have to leave the table/room because he/she is asking another member for proof or stating disbelief or disagreement :blink:?

The way for example Rosanne is wording questions or opinions, you say it's 'stoaking the coals', I would say it is a part of her personality and I cannot see any ill intent behind it.

I am enjoying the discussion we have here right now and my intentions are not to offend anyone or to be disrespectful at all.

utmom2008
04-21-2009, 10:31 AM
Are you referring to one of my favourite remarks ;)? Which was by the way not meant flippant like you want to read it!

I think it's Everyone's right to express one's view not matter if others may not bear your opinion or disagree therein with you.

And when posts are being removed or threads closed...I might come to the conclusion that there is no Freedom of Speech allowed here, because the reasons why those actions are taken are really, excuse me....childish.

We are adults discussing Elvis and his concerns, do you think in 'real life' someone would have to leave the table/room because he/she is asking another member for proof or stating disbelief or disagreement :blink:?

The way for example Rosanne is wording questions or opinions, you say it's 'stoaking the coals', I would say it is a part of her personality and I cannot see any ill intent behind it.

I am enjoying the discussion we have here right now and my intentions are not to offend anyone or to be disrespectful at all.

Outstanding points Tina......every one of them!(y)
And, thank you very much!:notworthy

Tommy
04-21-2009, 10:54 AM
Please take this debate to the TCB - Philosophical Debate thread. Thank you.

Tommy
04-21-2009, 10:55 AM
Please stay on topic thank you.

elvislady
04-21-2009, 11:11 AM
Are you referring to one of my favourite remarks ;)? Which was by the way not meant flippant like you want to read it!

I think it's Everyone's right to express one's view not matter if others may not bear your opinion or disagree therein with you.

And when posts are being removed or threads closed...I might come to the conclusion that there is no Freedom of Speech allowed here, because the reasons why those actions are taken are really, excuse me....childish.

We are adults discussing Elvis and his concerns, do you think in 'real life' someone would have to leave the table/room because he/she is asking another member for proof or stating disbelief or disagreement :blink:?

The way for example Rosanne is wording questions or opinions, you say it's 'stoaking the coals', I would say it is a part of her personality and I cannot see any ill intent behind it.

I am enjoying the discussion we have here right now and my intentions are not to offend anyone or to be disrespectful at all.

Thanks tina... nail on the head!
elvislady(y)

Tommy
04-21-2009, 12:29 PM
I repeat please take this debate to the TCB - Philosophical Debate thread. Thank you.

Tommy
04-21-2009, 12:55 PM
Please stay on topic, thank you.

Genie
04-21-2009, 08:48 PM
Only unless it is closed.



I am a lot of things, but one thing I am not is obtuse. And if I don't know what someone means, I will ask them directly to explain.

:supriced: I do beg your pardon but the modertor is correct. You could at least type my name into your comment, as though I were a person! Thank you.
Many explanations can be given, many facts as well.
Personally, I find you argumentive and sassy, so you'll have none from this long time Elvis fan/friend.
~Genie

Getlo
04-21-2009, 11:40 PM
What part of ...


Please take this debate to the TCB - Philosophical Debate thread. Thank you.

did you not get?

I shall respond to your comments over there.

KPM
04-22-2009, 12:19 PM
I know there is just one Elvis but I don't think we are that different at all. When you know how a person react to happenings in his life, hear his commentaries and know how his life evolve you can have at least an idea of what that person must have thought and felt, or so I think...
You might have an idea-but thats all it is your assumption of how he would act or react. Thats my point.
I do not think I (and most of us)are like Elvis-I have no idea what its like to have millions love you -because you sing. I can have no idea what its like to hear things like, "Good show good show....."
after every performance from those around me. I can have no idea what its like to be a kid in high school whos not in the so called "A crowd" and then a short time later the "A Crowd" wants to be your friend.
The world wants to be your friend (or wants something....)
I mean I know we have all read a lot and listened a lot but there is a huge gap in this way of learning about anyone. So I say again there is no way to really in a serious way put yourself in anyones shoes no matter how much you know about them.
Elvis was a complicated mass of contradictions. Also a mass of talent, charisma, and that something special which set him apart-I have no idea what that is like-nor how it affects your thinking, your relationships, your mental state. I can guess from reading and listening-but I can not imagine what that life was like in any serious way ....I just can't.

Tommy
04-22-2009, 01:20 PM
:supriced: I do beg your pardon but the modertor is correct. You could at least type my name into your comment, as though I were a person! Thank you.
Many explanations can be given, many facts as well.
Personally, I find you argumentive and sassy, so you'll have none from this long time Elvis fan/friend.
~Genie


Please take this debate to the TCB - Philosophical Debate thread. Thank you.

Donut
04-22-2009, 02:13 PM
You might have an idea-but thats all it is your assumption of how he would act or react. Thats my point.
I do not think I (and most of us)are like Elvis-I have no idea what its like to have millions love you -because you sing. I can have no idea what its like to hear things like, "Good show good show....."
after every performance from those around me. I can have no idea what its like to be a kid in high school whos not in the so called "A crowd" and then a short time later the "A Crowd" wants to be your friend.
The world wants to be your friend (or wants something....)
I mean I know we have all read a lot and listened a lot but there is a huge gap in this way of learning about anyone. So I say again there is no way to really in a serious way put yourself in anyones shoes no matter how much you know about them.
Elvis was a complicated mass of contradictions. Also a mass of talent, charisma, and that something special which set him apart-I have no idea what that is like-nor how it affects your thinking, your relationships, your mental state. I can guess from reading and listening-but I can not imagine what that life was like in any serious way ....I just can't.

Fellings are something we all have just for being human. He could have been adored by millions, have lots of cars and houses or money to give and waste but at the end of the day he was a mere mortal like the rest of us. If he was ridiculized in public he blushed, if someone hurt him he cried and if he found something funny he laughed. There are things that are part of human nature and empathy is useful for people in every walk of life in my opinion.

KPM
04-22-2009, 08:26 PM
Fellings are something we all have just for being human. He could have been adored by millions, have lots of cars and houses or money to give and waste but at the end of the day he was a mere mortal like the rest of us. If he was ridiculized in public he blushed, if someone hurt him he cried and if he found something funny he laughed. There are things that are part of human nature and empathy is useful for people in every walk of life in my opinion.
True-but with all those human feelings all those things everyone else shares in common he had that one thing none of us can ever experience-total love and adoration by millions, that continued on and on. Few humans know that kind of hysteria and adoration-especially in 1955. Popes might feel that, great politicians etc....
He was not the leader of a religion nor a country-and that has to mess with who you are and what you are in every way possible. I can identify with ridicule, with being hurt, with something funny-but not with the sudden change from human to idol, and all that entails.

Donut
04-23-2009, 03:38 AM
True-but with all those human feelings all those things everyone else shares in common he had that one thing none of us can ever experience-total love and adoration by millions, that continued on and on. Few humans know that kind of hysteria and adoration-especially in 1955. Popes might feel that, great politicians etc....
He was not the leader of a religion nor a country-and that has to mess with who you are and what you are in every way possible. I can identify with ridicule, with being hurt, with something funny-but not with the sudden change from human to idol, and all that entails.

You are right, I can't indentify neither with being followed by millions but we all have been sick in one way or another and we can't deal in the same way with problems as when we have plenty of strengh and will so in this case everyone poor, wealthy, famous or anonymous can put theirselves in his shoes and know he must have felt extra pressured and 'maybe' think he was more a commodity for others than a human being. According to some around him he always doubted who loved him for himself and sometimes tested them and maybe he had a point. At least watching it from the outside that's what it seems, that's the reason I started this thread though I know like in everything we discuss some will agree and some won't and that's fine ;)