The Colonel - visionary genius or master of exploitation?

[franny]

The Colonel - visionary genius or master of exploitation?: Music historian Peter Guralnick argues that the answer is both. Parker was the mysterious, controversial manager who guided Elvis Presley’s career from 1955 on. Before he ever met Presley, though, he had revolutionized the art of management and promotion, particularly in his long association with Eddy Arnold. In this hundredth-anniversary year of the Colonel’s birth, Guralnick will show rare early images and play the only song Parker ever asked Presley to record. Guralnick has written extensively on American music. His books include the prize-winning two-volume biography of Presley, Last Train to Memphis and Careless Love, as well as Dream Boogie: The Triumph of Sam Cooke.

The lecture is on Saturday, April 18, 1:30 p.m. Country Music Hall of Fame - Nashville, TN

After the program, Guralnick will sign books in the Museum Store. Included with museum admission. Free to museum members. For more details, contact the Country Music Hall of Fame at 615-416-2001.
Go here for EIN's exclusive interview with Alanna Nash (http://www.elvisinfonet.com/alanna.html), author of The Extraordinary Story of Colonel Tom Parker. (News, Source:EIN/EPE)
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/image-files/ColElvis.jpg

[SleepyJack]

Tom Parker...a visionary???:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[molokai123]

very tricky subject!:hmm: he did do good but he also did a lot of bad! but then again some of the things that EPE do are they any different from waht Co. Parker Did?:hmm::wallbash:

[Brian]

Colonel Parker actually did things with Elvis in the begining of his career that a lot of people consider revolutionary. Mainly his promotion skills and merchandising along with using t.v. as a vehicle to launch Elvis career 25 years before MTV.

Also later in Elvis career he came up with Aloha from Hawaii which was a good idea.

[rickb]

A visionary genius would book Elvis a leading role in Harum Scarum or Paradise Hawaiian Style or send him out on a two-week tour without a night's rest when he is aged 42 and obviously unwell?
No, i don't think so.
Sure he was strong on exploitation, particularly in the early years, but the only exploitation he did in the mid 60s and 70s was of his cash cow

[Dino78]

Not easy to answer on this question.
I think he was something in between. He was a visionary genius in the way of selling the product "Elvis". It was him who created that merchandising industry around one singer. It was him who saw the possibility of TV as a platform to increase your artit's popularity and being paid for in an acceptable way.
On the other hand he wanted to take the easy route. Always after the quick dollar. Without any long term view.
It's difficult to see the whole situation with our today's point of view. Today nobody would do two concerts per day over two weeks, etc. When you want to judge him you'll find enough arguments for, when not you do it either.

[Getlo]

Of course the answer to this is both.

[beckelvis]

I agree with you Dino.

[Tony Trout]

Of course the answer to this is both.

Agreed, Getlo. In the beginning he was an absolute genius by using the 'less is more' approach but by the time the touring years resumed, Parker did all he could to exploit Elvis and forced him onstage when he should've been in a hospital. Parker didn't give a **** about anything other than the almighty $$$ by that time/point in Elvis's career.

[easyrider]

The Colonel Parker was a visionary genius and master of exploitation.

[*MOODY BLUE*]

BOTH - no doubt about it

[elvia7]

Tom Parker...a visionary???:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

I think that, master of exploitation:notworthy:'(:notworthy

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Categorically, both. Will there ever be another manager who almost gets the same notoriety as their act? The Colonel is guilty of putting the product before the person. Elvis is guilty of putting the person before the product. Either way you look at it both were guilty of not looking after each others needs....

[Diane]

I see master and genius of manipulation and exploitation but visionary???...not really, his vision for Elvis' future was very limited.

Diane

[Getlo]

I see master and genius of manipulation and exploitation but visionary???...not really, his vision for Elvis' future was very limited.

In 1955, The Colonel was the only one with the vision to launch Elvis Presley to the entire world.

[KPM]

In 1955, The Colonel was the only one with the vision to launch Elvis Presley to the entire world.
Well Parker had been keeping tabs on Elvis when Oscar Davis told him that he had seen a kid who took over the audiences he performed to.
Parker made sure to help Bob Neal with bookings-but truthfully IMO he knew he wanted Elvis.
Parker knew Elvis was going to be the a huge star-so did Phillips, so did Hank Snow so did practically everyone who saw him perform. I think Parker knew the explosion would happen and he wanted to be in on it. But IMO it is performances by Elvis which caused the world wide explosion.
The explosion was already happening-5-13-55 concert at the Gator Bowl in Fla.
14,000 fans and a riot. Here is an excerpt from Scotty Moores website about that night:

...Jimmy Rodgers Snow said the stage was setup in the middle of the field facing the bleaches with rows of chairs in front of the stage. He said the girls in the chairs in the front are the ones that pursued him. When asked if it happened on more than one occasion, he said, "Yes, just about everywhere we played it happened. Sometimes it would be more people then other times. It would depend on how large the crowd was. I know that Elvis did not invite the girls back stage anymore. I think he learned that it was not a good idea."

This was the point that according to the Colonel's advance man, Oscar Davis, Parker was irrevocably sold on the growth potential of Elvis Presley. Scotty, in his book "That's Alright Elvis" recalled that almost from the beginning the Colonel started trying to separate Elvis from the band. He had tried to get Hank's band to back him and both they and Elvis refused to do that. He felt that it was because he "had Elvis' ear". The following July when they performed at the ballpark again appearing with Andy Griffith, Ferlin Husky and Marty Robbins, the fans (girls) apparently rioted and again relieved Elvis of most of his clothing. A fan, Ardys (Bell) Clawson who had recently moved to Jacksonville from Boca Grande was in attendance both days and after the performance on the 28th saw him hiding shirtless eating ice out of one of the drink boxes under the grandstand. Her brother took pictures.
This was not a reaction which any other entertainer had ever sparked.
Parker saw all this and kept moving closer and closer into Elvis's career circle-till he finally got him signed.
Parker saw that he had to get Elvis onto Allen, Berle, or Sullivan (he got him on all three) that national TV exposure and the performances/controversy lauched the international explosion. IMO Elvis's voice and talent sustained the momentum of the initial explosion.
Was Parker the only manager who would have tried to get Elvis national TV exposure if they had managed Elvis-of course not. But was he closest to the initial explosion in the south-yes. Did that give him inside track compared to quality managers in New York and Hollywood-of course.
Crosbys manager did the same thing for Crosby-Crosby began to sing, he made records-his manager booked him on popular national radio shows to get him exposure then into films......
Sinatras management followed the same pattern performances, great interest, records, national radio shows, films.......
This was not a new pattern- but TV was an easier medium because you could see the artist.
So I agree Parker helped launch the explosion-but it did not take much to do so.

[renapap05]

Tom Parker...a visionary???:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:(y)(y)

[Brian]

Was Parker the only manager who would have tried to get Elvis national TV exposure if they had managed Elvis-of course not. But was he closest to the initial explosion in the south-yes. Did that give him inside track compared to quality managers in New York and Hollywood-of course.
Crosbys manager did the same thing for Crosby-Crosby began to sing, he made records-his manager booked him on popular national radio shows to get him exposure then into films......
Sinatras management followed the same pattern performances, great interest, records, national radio shows, films.......
This was not a new pattern- but TV was an easier medium because you could see the artist.
So I agree Parker helped launch the explosion-but it did not take much to do so.

of course it takes a talented artist for a manager to make him successful but I truly believe Parker was the right guy for the time. If Parker hadn't of come along when he did Elvis would've stayed on Sun and finished out his contract there thus it either would've took longer for him to break out on the national scene or not at all. Remember Sam Phillips had Roy Orbison and Charlie Rich on Sun but didn't know what to do with either of them.

For some reason I don't think Sinatra's manager of Croby's manager would've been interested in managing Elvis because they were older guys who would'n't have understood Elvis appeal as a lot of people from the older generation thought rock n'' roll would last a couple of years and fade. I believe the Colonel understood Elvis appeal and the popularity of rock n' roll in the begininng and knew just how to promote.

After Elvis got so big anybody could've managed him but in the begining it was the Colonel.

[KPM]

of course it takes a talented artist for a manager to make him successful but I truly believe Parker was the right guy for the time. If Parker hadn't of come along when he did Elvis would've stayed on Sun and finished out his contract there thus it either would've took longer for him to break out on the national scene or not at all. Remember Sam Phillips had Roy Orbison and Charlie Rich on Sun but didn't know what to do with either of them.

For some reason I don't think Sinatra's manager of Croby's manager would've been interested in managing Elvis because they were older guys who would'n't have understood Elvis appeal as a lot of people from the older generation thought rock n'' roll would last a couple of years and fade. I believe the Colonel understood Elvis appeal and the popularity of rock n' roll in the begininng and knew just how to promote.

After Elvis got so big anybody could've managed him but in the begining it was the Colonel.
I do not think Elvis would have stayed at Sun, other than RCA-other labels were interested in Elvis's contract in 55 according to Elvis Day by Day and the fact that Phillips needed cash was a prime reason for Phillips making any deal.
Phillips was smart- he would have eventually taken one of the offers from someone for the contract. Also Phillips knew Elvis was headed for superstardom-he did care about Elvis and knew that Elvis needed a bigger company to record for.
I was not suggesting that Crosby or Sinatras managers would want to promote Elvis-I was pointing out the natural progression of a major star of their level. They did for their clients-the same thing in the same way that Parker did for Elvis.

[Brian]

I do not think Elvis would have stayed at Sun, other than RCA-other labels were interested in Elvis's contract in 55 according to Elvis Day by Day and the fact that Phillips needed cash was a prime reason for Phillips making any deal.
Phillips was smart- he would have eventually taken one of the offers from someone for the contract. Also Phillips knew Elvis was headed for superstardom-he did care about Elvis and knew that Elvis needed a bigger company to record for.
I was not suggesting that Crosby or Sinatras managers would want to promote Elvis-I was pointing out the natural progression of a major star of their level. They did for their clients-the same thing in the same way that Parker did for Elvis.

I have heard from Sam Phillips that when Colonel Parker first started managing Elvis in 55 the Colonel started a rumor that Elvis contract was for sell without Sam's permission that started other labels interested in Elvis
When Sam Phillips confronted Parker about this saying ''Why are you doing this'' Parker replied ''never mind about that can we sell Elvis contract to another label'' Sam said ''maybe if I can get enough money and then he said $35,000 would be enough.'' Sam later said he didn't really want to sell and tried to come up with a figure that he thought nobody would pay but RCA came up with that much. Elvis sun contract was for 3 years so if the Colonel hadn't came along and got the ball rolling Elvis would have stayed at sun for another year. The deal worked out for the best as Elvis got a major record label to promote him and Sam Phillips got $40,000 to promote his other artists

[kathy parkinson]

I think Parker was both.

[Brian]

I got to thinking Colonel Tom Parker is hated by many Elvis but would he be so hated if he had set up a world tour for Elvis at some point and convinced the movie studio's to give Elvis a great movie role in the 60's?

Those 2 things seem to be the biggest points held against Parker

so if he had done those 2 things I think he'd be more liked

Because he isn't well thought of at all some fans like to try and diminish his role in the begining when he did a great job mastermining Elvis rise in showbiz. Also his idea for Elvis to go to Nashville to record some songs so they could be released periodically while he was serving in Germany to keep his name out there was absolutely brilliant. I don't think another manager would've come up with that.

[KPM]

I got to thinking Colonel Tom Parker is hated by many Elvis but would he be so hated if he had set up a world tour for Elvis at some point and convinced the movie studio's to give Elvis a great movie role in the 60's?

Those 2 things seem to be the biggest points held against Parker

so if he had done those 2 things I think he'd be more liked

Because he isn't well thought of at all some fans like to try and diminish his role in the begining when he did a great job mastermining Elvis rise in showbiz. Also his idea for Elvis to go to Nashville to record some songs so they could be released periodically while he was serving in Germany to keep his name out there was absolutely brilliant. I don't think another manager would've come up with that.
Brian I have always maintained the Col. did a good job in the 50s-never said otherwise. I think he knew Elvis was going big-he said so in several interviews-Elvis was going to be big no matter who managed him.
We always stress here the words which people actually said-those are his words. Was he being self effacing in those words-maybe-but he said them more than once. But what the Col did was not new-it was not a path never taken for huge stars as I pointed out. Recording material in order to keep Elvis on the airwaves-great idea-but not a new one-in WW2 many big name actors had a couple films in the can- in case they got drafted the studios made sure of that. Elvis was not the first to get a deferment from the draft to finish a film which would be released later to keep the face out front.
My main gripe with the Col. is he was a master manipulator-he was smart on what drives and scares people -he sensed weaknesses and he sensed angles to play up or down in dealing with people including Elvis and his dad.
I credit him as being what he called himself-"a Snowman"-his own description of himself-almost a logo for him.
Elvis had fears and weaknesses-he also was insecure about how long it would all last-listen to his interviews out of the Army-he had doubts.




I think after 63-64 Elvis would have been better served to get rid of him. But as I have said before-he was snowed by someone smarter who knew how to frame situations, how to keep Elvis dependent on the Col.-that is my main gripe about the Col.
Who was the more sophisticated of the 2? Who had already been in show business a good 15 years? Who was more vulnerable and unsure of the proper path to take?
I have said this before-the Col. in his way loved Elvis and Elvis in his way loved the Col. That said even if the COl loved Elvis-that does not always translate into the COl making the best decisions or recommendations for Elvis.

[franny]

I got to thinking Colonel Tom Parker is hated by many Elvis but would he be so hated if he had set up a world tour for Elvis at some point and convinced the movie studio's to give Elvis a great movie role in the 60's?

Those 2 things seem to be the biggest points held against Parker

so if he had done those 2 things I think he'd be more liked

Because he isn't well thought of at all some fans like to try and diminish his role in the begining when he did a great job mastermining Elvis rise in showbiz. Also his idea for Elvis to go to Nashville to record some songs so they could be released periodically while he was serving in Germany to keep his name out there was absolutely brilliant. I don't think another manager would've come up with that.

We will never know, if another manager would have come up with that...

franny

[KPM]

I have heard from Sam Phillips that when Colonel Parker first started managing Elvis in 55 the Colonel started a rumor that Elvis contract was for sell without Sam's permission that started other labels interested in Elvis
When Sam Phillips confronted Parker about this saying ''Why are you doing this'' Parker replied ''never mind about that can we sell Elvis contract to another label'' Sam said ''maybe if I can get enough money and then he said $35,000 would be enough.'' Sam later said he didn't really want to sell and tried to come up with a figure that he thought nobody would pay but RCA came up with that much. Elvis sun contract was for 3 years so if the Colonel hadn't came along and got the ball rolling Elvis would have stayed at sun for another year. The deal worked out for the best as Elvis got a major record label to promote him and Sam Phillips got $40,000 to promote his other artists
That is correct Col had begun trying to get Elvis away from Sun-he was not yet his manager-but he approached RCA because he had dealings with RCA for Eddy Arnold. Sam was mad because Parker was not Elvis's manager and Parker had not spoke to Sam about selling Elvis's contract. I would have been mad also-someone who has no legal right at the time (other than helping with bookings with Bob Neal) to Phillips or Elvis was trying to make a "around end" deal which he had no authorizartion to do.
But by the time Parker was Elvis' manager the fire had already started-Phillips had debt-sure he did not want to sell but he needed cash-and also he knew Elvis needed the big machine of a large company to press the records nationwide.
I have never said the deal did not work out for everyone. Phillips got much needed capital, Elvis got the bonus and nationwide ability to get his records to other markets, RCA got the biggest recording artist of all for a song-and Parker got Elvis.

[Brian]

Brian I have always maintained the Col. did a good job in the 50s-never said otherwise. I think he knew Elvis was going big-he said so in several interviews-Elvis was going to be big no matter who managed him.
We always stress here the words which people actually said-those are his words. Was he being self effacing in those words-maybe-but he said them more than once. But what the Col did was not new-it was not a path never taken for huge stars as I pointed out. Recording material in order to keep Elvis on the airwaves-great idea-but not a new one-in WW2 many big name actors had a couple films in the can- in case they got drafted the studios made sure of that. Elvis was not the first to get a deferment from the draft to finish a film which would be released later to keep the face out front.
My main gripe with the Col. is he was a master manipulator-he was smart on what drives and scares people -he sensed weaknesses and he sensed angles to play up or down in dealing with people including Elvis and his dad.
I credit him as being what he called himself-"a Snowman"-his own description of himself-almost a logo for him.
Elvis had fears and weaknesses-he also was insecure about how long it would all last-listen to his interviews out of the Army-he had doubts.




.

I wasn't specifically talking about you but fans in general

I know about other actors making sure the movies they made were in the can before they went overseas and other stars getting deferrments. I'm talking about the decision to have Elvis record songs in Nashville so they could be released while he was away.
Remember Elvis was very worried that his career would be over that everybody would forget about him while he was in Germany. I believe they would've as 2 years away from the spotlight is a long time.
I think another manager wouldn't have done that for Elvis
Elvis would have went over to Germany and then came back forgotten.
When Elvis got drafted everybody thought his career would be over but thanks to Parker it wasn't.

I think Colonel Parker was a bad manager because of song publishing issues that plagued Elvis later career and taking 50% of Elvis money from 68 until his death. However I give credit where credit is due

not talking about you Sir but some fans don't give Colonel credit for nothing.

[KPM]

I wasn't specifically talking about you but fans in general

I know about other actors making sure the movies they made were in the can before they went overseas and other stars getting deferrments. I'm talking about the decision to have Elvis record songs in Nashville so they could be released while he was away.Remember Elvis was very worried that his career would be over that everybody would forget about him while he was in Germany. I believe they would've as 2 years away from the spotlight is a long time.
I think another manager wouldn't have done that for Elvis
Elvis would have went over to Germany and then came back forgotten.
When Elvis got drafted everybody thought his career would be over but thanks to Parker it wasn't.

I think Colonel Parker was a bad manager because of song publishing issues that plagued Elvis later career and taking 50% of Elvis money from 68 until his death. However I give credit where credit is due

not talking about you Sir but some fans don't give Colonel credit for nothing.
Yes I understand you were talking about songs in the can while in the service-but my point was the idea of having product of any kind in the can to keep someone in the public eye during an absence is not new. Its a good idea and the Col. used it-but The Col. did not come up with an idea that was not used before-matters not if its movies or music-the idea it to keep that persons talent and face in the public eye-when they are not able to do so. So since people had used this idea long before Elvis-someone long before Parker had the same idea.

[mozzarella]

I've always believed Parker was a freemason. He was ALSO controlled. But he didn't know that much. He just did his job so as Elvis. But there must be something that the Colonel knew to control Elvis who obeyed to him almost all the time. They had a secret deal. I think the purpose was to make Elvis an icon and a legend. In that sense Parker did a magnificent job. But the cost was his client's life. And probably Elvis knew it subconsciously... You can execute me for my opinion... I may see it totally wrong

[Getlo]

I've always believed Parker was a freemason.

Parker was no Freemason.

One look at how he shook hands will tell you that.

[Brian]

Yes I understand you were talking about songs in the can while in the service-but my point was the idea of having product of any kind in the can to keep someone in the public eye during an absence is not new. Its a good idea and the Col. used it-but The Col. did not come up with an idea that was not used before-matters not if its movies or music-the idea it to keep that persons talent and face in the public eye-when they are not able to do so. So since people had used this idea long before Elvis-someone long before Parker had the same idea.


Well I'd say the difference in movies and songs being released while he was away is different in this respect.

Elvis had got a deferrment (like many of the movie stars did when they were drafted) to finish making the movie King Creole. The movie and the songs being released from the film were enough to keep him in the public eye during 1958 but if Elvis hadn't of went into the studio that year to record some songs he would've been totally absent from the radio in 1959. Thus his fans probably would've forgotten about him and moved on to someone else.
He hadn't filmed another movie so no movies were coming out for him in 59 to keep him in the public eye so those songs are what did it.

Also as you know that means no big hits Big hunk o' love and Fool such as I

P.S. RCA should've also released ''Aint that loving you baby'' as a single in 1959

[Getlo]

if Elvis hadn't of went into the studio that year to record some songs he would've been totally absent from the radio in 1959.

True.


Thus his fans probably would've forgotten about him and moved on to someone else.

Not true at all.

[Elvis Girl]

my thought on this was Colonel Tom Parker was both

[SleepyJack]

There is no doubt that Parkers` management of Elvis in the `50s was hugely successful and instrumental in introducing his talent to the world,and,yes,he did a great job of keeping his star in the public eye all through the army years...it`s hard to argue against that. Calling him a "visionary" is just a bit too much as far as I am concerned.....his carnival experience and his talent as a manipulator and schemer were suited to the 1950`s....a relatively innocent time, people with more money to spend and the excitement of television telling them how to spend it. After the army it would be very difficult to find examples of his "visionary" ideas....he dug huge,empty holes that Elvis eventually did not have the energy or enthusiasm to climb out of.

[Diane]

There is no doubt that Parkers` management of Elvis in the `50s was hugely successful and instrumental in introducing his talent to the world,and,yes,he did a great job of keeping his star in the public eye all through the army years...it`s hard to argue against that. Calling him a "visionary" is just a bit too much as far as I am concerned.....his carnival experience and his talent as a manipulator and schemer were suited to the 1950`s....a relatively innocent time, people with more money to spend and the excitement of television telling them how to spend it. After the army it would be very difficult to find examples of his "visionary" ideas....he dug huge,empty holes that Elvis eventually did not have the energy or enthusiasm to climb out of.

Agreed! The only difference between the Colonel and other managers out there was his "carny" tricks and Elvis' image is still paying for those.

Diane

[SleepyJack]

I guess as well that it depends on how you determine what a great manager is.... In terms of money-making and lucrative contracts and deals then Parker was a successful manager....On the other hand he was hopeless when it came to managing Elvis as an artist,he stood in the way of decent film roles, he kept great songs from Elvis because he didn`t have the rights to them,he got Elvis to agree to signing long-term contracts that tied him down and left little room for change.I don`t think that the colonel had any appreciation of music,movies etc,,,other than how much money he could make from them.... I`ve no doubt in my mind that,at least from 1960 onwards,Elvis would have had a better career under a manager who knew the real worth of his client.

[Brian]

Not true at all.

I don't know

a year away from radio

a year without being on the charts without new songs could've really hurt him

[KPM]

Well I'd say the difference in movies and songs being released while he was away is different in this respect.

Elvis had got a deferrment (like many of the movie stars did when they were drafted) to finish making the movie King Creole. The movie and the songs being released from the film were enough to keep him in the public eye during 1958 but if Elvis hadn't of went into the studio that year to record some songs he would've been totally absent from the radio in 1959. Thus his fans probably would've forgotten about him and moved on to someone else.
He hadn't filmed another movie so no movies were coming out for him in 59 to keep him in the public eye so those songs are what did it.

Also as you know that means no big hits Big hunk o' love and Fool such as I

P.S. RCA should've also released ''Aint that loving you baby'' as a single in 1959
Well I have agreed with you that it was a good idea, we disagree on your comment that no-another manager would have also thought of it.
I was pointing out that competent people had used this idea long before Parker in the movie industry-which shows another manager might well have used the same tactic to keep Elvis in the minds eye of the public.
But your point that Parker used this and it helped is correct.

[Brian]

Well I have agreed with you that it was a good idea, we disagree on your comment that no-another manager would have also thought of it.
I was pointing out that competent people had used this idea long before Parker in the movie industry-which shows another manager might well have used the same tactic to keep Elvis in the minds eye of the public.
But your point that Parker used this and it helped is correct.


I think Colonel Parker was the first manager to actually manage a singer and have him record songs before he was sent overseas as a means to keep him in the public eye.

All the famous people I can recall that were drafted during WWII were either movie stars or baseball players.
and after they all came home some of them didn't have the same popularity as they had before.

[KPM]

I think Colonel Parker was the first manager to actually manage a singer and have him record songs before he was sent overseas as a means to keep him in the public eye.

All the famous people I can recall that were drafted during WWII were either movie stars or baseball players.
and after they all came home some of them didn't have the same popularity as they had before.
Brian-you may be correct-as Bing, Frank, Rudy Vallee, and Al Jolson never had this problem-but you are trying to make out that this was a one of a kind idea-it was not. It doesn't really matter what the people were famous for-movies, music whatever-the idea is-keep that face, voice, "person" n the publics eye. Parker did this-but many others probably would have also-especially if any of these were from New York or Hollywood-where keeping actors in the public was done long before Parker.
In other words-you want to say Parker is the only manager in the world in 1958 who could have come up with this idea-we disagree-I think many would have done the same thing Parker did-because it was a ploy used before(films or records its still product in the can for the dry spell).
I know Parker was smart-but smart Hollywood and New York managers and agents had been promoting films, radio stars, and recording artists for years they also knew what to do, what had been done-and how to keep an artist in the eye of the public with moves like recording songs ahead.

[Brian]

Brian-you may be correct-as Bing, Frank, Rudy Vallee, and Al Jolson never had this problem-but you are trying to make out that this was a one of a kind idea-it was not. It doesn't really matter what the people were famous for-movies, music whatever-the idea is-keep that face, voice, "person" n the publics eye. Parker did this-but many others probably would have also-especially if any of these were from New York or Hollywood-where keeping actors in the public was done long before Parker.
In other words-you want to say Parker is the only manager in the world in 1958 who could have come up with this idea-we disagree-I think many would have done the same thing Parker did-because it was a ploy used before(films or records its still product in the can for the dry spell).
I know Parker was smart-but smart Hollywood and New York managers and agents had been promoting films, radio stars, and recording artists for years they also knew what to do, what had been done-and how to keep an artist in the eye of the public with moves like recording songs ahead.


Well if Colonel Parker was the first and only person to do it -it was a one of a kind idea.The songs I mean.

your right I don't know if another manager would've come up with the idea but for some reason I suspect no and since Parker is the one who actually did it I give him credit.

You know how when we have the discussions about Parker I enjoy them.
I've noticed your main point always being that Parker wasn't doing anything any different than any other manager would've done (e.g. get Elvis deal with major record label, get Elvis into movies etc.) that's true however have you thought that maybe another manager wouldn't have been interested in managing Elvis. Also a lot of other savy managers were based in L.A. or New york and that's not where Elvis was in 1955 so they wouldn't have been in a position to discover him, Colonel Parker working and living in Nashville was.
you also think Elvis was so talented you believe he would've become a big star no matter who was managing him I agree with that but if his rise in showbiz had been put off for year or a couple years he might not have become as popular as he did maybe he would've became famous like Tom Jones or Roy Orbison.Timing is everything.

[KPM]

Well if Colonel Parker was the first and only person to do it -it was a one of a kind idea.The songs I mean.

your right I don't know if another manager would've come up with the idea but for some reason I suspect no and since Parker is the one who actually did it I give him credit.

You know how when we have the discussions about Parker I enjoy them.
I've noticed your main point always being that Parker wasn't doing anything any different than any other manager would've done (e.g. get Elvis deal with major record label, get Elvis into movies etc.) that's true however have you thought that maybe another manager wouldn't have been interested in managing Elvis. Also a lot of other savy managers were based in L.A. or New york and that's not where Elvis was in 1955 so they wouldn't have been in a position to discover him, Colonel Parker working and living in Nashville was.
you also think Elvis was so talented you believe he would've become a big star no matter who was managing him I agree with that but if his rise in showbiz had been put off for year or a couple years he might not have become as popular as he did maybe he would've became famous like Tom Jones or Roy Orbison.Timing is everything.
True they were not in the south-but they could read-the story of the riots in the Gator Bowl -it was big news-the Hayride shows were getting much press-Elvis was mentioned in Cashbox magazine and stories were quickly circulating of how this young white guy sounded black-and was driving girls wild. You underestimate the 50s-it was not Pony Express days-the nation did hear of things in other parts which were out of the ordinary-Elvis was out of the ordinary. But Parker was closer to the news and he had a jump on the East and West coast.

[Brian]

After the army it would be very difficult to find examples of his "visionary" ideas....he dug huge,empty holes that Elvis eventually did not have the energy or enthusiasm to climb out of.


well I can think of 2

1.Colonel Parker in October 1962 was in negotiations for Elvis to play 43 dates across the U.S. A tour he bills as the Biggest tour ever and RCA guarantees Elvis more than 1 million dollars however RCA eventually gets cold feet and wants it scaled back to 11 dates. The Colonel doesn't like that and declines the offer and the tour never takes place. Now I consider this idea visionary or groundbreaking for a few reasons. Back in those days no rock n' roll or pop star had undertaken a tour of this size as most of the stars then were still doing package tours so had this tour taken place it probably would've been the biggest tour ever up until this point. Also the Beatles set a trend with rock acts playing big stadiums when they drew 65,000 fans at Shea stadium in 1965 had this tour happened it would've been over a year before the Beatles and I have no doubt that Elvis would've played some outdoor venues so maybe just maybe Elvis would've set a big attendance record before the Beatles did.
Seeing as how the U.SS Arizona memorial show was so great it's a shame the deal fell through.

2. Aloha From Hawaii

[Getlo]

I don't know

a year away from radio

a year without being on the charts without new songs could've really hurt him

Only perhaps from a monetary point of view, ie no records coming out.

Elvis could have gone into the army in '58 and not been seen at all - not a single photo, interview or progress report - and emerged in 1960 as normal, and the fans would have been right there waiting for him without missing a beat.

[Diane]

Only perhaps from a monetary point of view, ie no records coming out.

Elvis could have gone into the army in '58 and not been seen at all - not a single photo, interview or progress report - and emerged in 1960 as normal, and the fans would have been right there waiting for him without missing a beat.

I totally agree, Elvis was never forgotten by his fans when he went into the army. I myself could hardly wait until he was home and performing again.

Diane

[Brian]

Only perhaps from a monetary point of view, ie no records coming out.

Elvis could have gone into the army in '58 and not been seen at all - not a single photo, interview or progress report - and emerged in 1960 as normal, and the fans would have been right there waiting for him without missing a beat.

I very much disagree with that

The thing is everybody on this board are very big die hard fans

of course all of you would have waited for Elvis to return

Most of Elvis fanbase weren't die hard fans.

What about the fans that liked several of Elvis songs and movies but weren't die hard fans would they have waited?

I can't tell you have many people I've met who consider themselves big Elvis fans who only know about 15-20 songs. It's true they like Elvis but they are not as big as fans as they say.

What about casual Elvis fans?

Also it was important to release product while he was away to keep Elvis in the news and to release songs to keep Elvis career momentum going.

[KPM]

I very much disagree with that

The thing is everybody on this board are very big die hard fans

of course all of you would have waited for Elvis to return

Most of Elvis fanbase weren't die hard fans.

What about the fans that liked several of Elvis songs and movies but weren't die hard fans would they have waited?

I can't tell you have many people I've met who consider themselves big Elvis fans who only know about 15-20 songs. It's true they like Elvis but they are not as big as fans as they say.

What about casual Elvis fans?

Also it was important to release product while he was away to keep Elvis in the news and to release songs to keep Elvis career momentum going.
I think Brian you underestimate the charisma and the talent of Elvis. I think where you and I will always disagree is you seem to not see the essense of Elvis and his appeal. You look for outside things which "made" him big-things which "made" him great like Parker. I see it as Sam Phillips saw it, as Johnny Cash saw it, as Parker himself says he saw it-Elvis was going to be a huge star no matter what.
They saw the grip Elvis had on his audience-his fans-and truthfully no one had had that affect before.
This is special-charisma is not something that every singer has-nor actor, nor politician it is present in very few individuals.

You say most of Elvis's fanbase weren't die hard fans-it they were his "fanbase" they have to be strong fans.
The "base" of anything is the foundation that something rests on-so the fanbase would be the strongest part of the people who bought his records saw the movies and would have waited with baited breath for his return. Actually thinking about it-perhaps if no songs had been released while in the service-it would have peaked anticipation even higher for new songs- new performances when he got out of the Army.
"Its Now or Never" was big-but if it had been the first song in 2 years how much bigger may it have been?
Parker was in the correct place-at the correct time. In a way he practically stalked Elvis (thru his surrogate) to keep tabs on how hot he was becoming-when Elvis caused the riot in the Gator Bowl Parker knew -this kid is something special, something lasting. Parker made up his mind to get in on the money to be made. He was correct.
But if Parker had not managed Elvis-a few more "riots" would have drawn out the city slicker managers from New York and California to see "if a dollar could be made" But they never got the chance-Parker was close and he sewed up Elvis quick.

People who make money off others, managers, agents, press people-they smell money miles away.

[KPM]

well I can think of 2

1.Colonel Parker in October 1962 was in negotiations for Elvis to play 43 dates across the U.S. A tour he bills as the Biggest tour ever and RCA guarantees Elvis more than 1 million dollars however RCA eventually gets cold feet and wants it scaled back to 11 dates. The Colonel doesn't like that and declines the offer and the tour never takes place. Now I consider this idea visionary or groundbreaking for a few reasons. Back in those days no rock n' roll or pop star had undertaken a tour of this size as most of the stars then were still doing package tours so had this tour taken place it probably would've been the biggest tour ever up until this point. Also the Beatles set a trend with rock acts playing big stadiums when they drew 65,000 fans at Shea stadium in 1965 had this tour happened it would've been over a year before the Beatles and I have no doubt that Elvis would've played some outdoor venues so maybe just maybe Elvis would've set a big attendance record before the Beatles did.
Seeing as how the U.SS Arizona memorial show was so great it's a shame the deal fell through.

2. Aloha From Hawaii
First off where did this come from-I looked in "Elvis Day by Day" for Oct 62 and a couple other books and found no mention of any possible tour, nor negotiations by Parker for a tour or billing it "the biggest tour ever"

[Getlo]

Most of Elvis fanbase weren't die hard fans.

No way. In 1958, the vast majority of Elvis' fans were die-hards.


What about the fans that liked several of Elvis songs and movies but weren't die hard fans would they have waited?

Not "waited" per se. But they would have returned to the fold ASAP once Elvis released new, quality material (which he did).


What about casual Elvis fans?

Most of these would have returned, possibly. But, by definition, they're casual fans, so their return wouldn't have much affected Elvis' standing.


Also it was important to release product while he was away to keep Elvis in the news and to release songs to keep Elvis career momentum going.

What's your point? We'd gone off on a tangent about how fans would react if nothing had been released and Elvis wasn't seen at all from 1958-60. As it was, new product was released during the army years, and rightly so.


I think Brian you underestimate the charisma and the talent of Elvis.

Indeed.


Actually thinking about it-perhaps if no songs had been released while in the service-it would have peaked anticipation even higher for new songs- new performances when he got out of the Army.


Quite possibly, yes.

[franny]

Only perhaps from a monetary point of view, ie no records coming out.

Elvis could have gone into the army in '58 and not been seen at all - not a single photo, interview or progress report - and emerged in 1960 as normal, and the fans would have been right there waiting for him without missing a beat.

I agree, Getlo.



Most of Elvis fanbase weren't die hard fans.


Says who? :hmm:

franny

[Brian]

I think Brian you underestimate the charisma and the talent of Elvis. I think where you and I will always disagree is you seem to not see the essense of Elvis and his appeal. You look for outside things which "made" him big-things which "made" him great like Parker. I see it as Sam Phillips saw it, as Johnny Cash saw it, as Parker himself says he saw it-Elvis was going to be a huge star no matter what.
They saw the grip Elvis had on his audience-his fans-and truthfully no one had had that affect before.
This is special-charisma is not something that every singer has-nor actor, nor politician it is present in very few individuals.

You say most of Elvis's fanbase weren't die hard fans-it they were his "fanbase" they have to be strong fans.
The "base" of anything is the foundation that something rests on-so the fanbase would be the strongest part of the people who bought his records saw the movies and would have waited with baited breath for his return. Actually thinking about it-perhaps if no songs had been released while in the service-it would have peaked anticipation even higher for new songs- new performances when he got out of the Army.
"Its Now or Never" was big-but if it had been the first song in 2 years how much bigger may it have been?
Parker was in the correct place-at the correct time. In a way he practically stalked Elvis (thru his surrogate) to keep tabs on how hot he was becoming-when Elvis caused the riot in the Gator Bowl Parker knew -this kid is something special, something lasting. Parker made up his mind to get in on the money to be made. He was correct.
But if Parker had not managed Elvis-a few more "riots" would have drawn out the city slicker managers from New York and California to see "if a dollar could be made" But they never got the chance-Parker was close and he sewed up Elvis quick.

People who make money off others, managers, agents, press people-they smell money miles away.


I don't underestimate Elvis appeal or anything

I think it would've been very foolish not to release material
you can't take that chance of fans losing interest in him



and I wouldn't bet on another manager coming along at that time
Like I said other managers might not have been interested in managing him
Many people thought he was a flash in the pan and rock n' roll wouldn't last

[Brian]

First off where did this come from-I looked in "Elvis Day by Day" for Oct 62 and a couple other books and found no mention of any possible tour, nor negotiations by Parker for a tour or billing it "the biggest tour ever"


It is on Pg. 183 Elvis day by day

[Getlo]

It is on Pg. 183 Elvis day by day

There are five books with that title.

To which are you referring?

[Brian]

There are five books with that title.

To which are you referring?

I only know of one

The one by Ernst Jorgensen and Peter Guralknick

[KPM]

It is on Pg. 183 Elvis day by day
Page 183??
That is the first page of 1963 January-and there is no mention of this on that page nor on the next page.
Also you stated earlier this was from Oct. 62 and183 is Jan 63.

[KPM]

I only know of one

The one by Ernst Jorgensen and Peter Guralknick
The book I was looking at "Elvis Day by Day" is the one by Jorgensen/Guralnick ......no mention of it in Oct of 62 and no mention on page 183.

[KPM]

I don't underestimate Elvis appeal or anything

I think it would've been very foolish not to release material
you can't take that chance of fans losing interest in him



and I wouldn't bet on another manager coming along at that time
Like I said other managers might not have been interested in managing him
Many people thought he was a flash in the pan and rock n' roll wouldn't last
Well you can think what you like. I think Elvis would not have been forgotten in 2 years-do you think fan clubs would have folded up, at radio would not have played requests of his first songs etc......or....and this is the most important part-his charisma would have just up and died? His face was still all over the teen magazines and Parker had little to do with that. Elvis and his face sold magazines-still do-no teen magazine would have dared not report to ist audience on the nations most famous soldier from 58-60 people wanted the news.



Managers(Hollywood/New York/Tennessee- matters not) are always interested in making money and looking for ways to make money-no question. You seem to think the south was on another planet in the 1950s.
News may have traveled slower than today with 24 hour news channels and satellite broadcasts-but news of politics, disaster, and entertainment did get around.
Believe it or not the west coast and the east coast were aware of things which were of sensationalistic nature in entertainment-Elvis certainly was that-before and after the Col.
Ed Sullivan was a newspaper/sports writer to start with in the 40s-he read many many papers after he began his hosting job on the "Talk of the Town" (which became the Ed Sullivan show) looking for the odd stories of people or acts mentioned in other parts of the country which had garnered attention. He wanted to be the first to have anything new or different or just odd. Sullivan was not the only one looking for things to feature in the new and expanding TV market. How do you think he came up with so many odd individuals from all over the USA to feature in human interest stories, or monkeys who could do a ballet, or guys who took cannon balls in the chest point blank? He was watching the country for acts and people.
Elvis was certainly new, different and generating press in the south-but the important point is he was escalating quickly-bigger crowds, farther from Memphis and more and more riot scenarios. As Elvis gained in his confidence and stage savvy the escalation grew.
I have no doubt Elvis would have hit big-we can debate how big how quick-but he would have hit big just as Phillips and Parker both knew.

[Brian]

The book I was looking at "Elvis Day by Day" is the one by Jorgensen/Guralnick ......no mention of it in Oct of 62 and no mention on page 183.


your missing something then

I have the book it's in there

The story about the 1962 tour is true

just where I said it was

I think it's over to the right under November instead of October

[Brian]

Well you can think what you like. I think Elvis would not have been forgotten in 2 years-do you think fan clubs would have folded up, at radio would not have played requests of his first songs etc......or....and this is the most important part-his charisma would have just up and died? His face was still all over the teen magazines and Parker had little to do with that. Elvis and his face sold magazines-still do-no teen magazine would have dared not report to ist audience on the nations most famous soldier from 58-60 people wanted the news.



.


I can't believe what I'm reading or that we are even discussing this

Have you thought that it was the products being released (King Ceole, Elvis Golden records vo1.1, the songs recorded in Nashville) that kept Elvis on those teen magazines for those 2 years.

I don't think all the fan clubs would've folded up or he would've lost all his fans but he would've lost some of them.
Colonel liked to gamble but he wasn't going to take this big a risk and just not release product and hope Elvis would remain popular and be popular when he got back after 2 years.

[utmom2008]

It is on Pg. 183 Elvis day by day


The book I was looking at "Elvis Day by Day" is the one by Jorgensen/Guralnick ......no mention of it in Oct of 62 and no mention on page 183.


I only know of one

The one by Ernst Jorgensen and Peter Guralknick


Page 183??
That is the first page of 1963 January-and there is no mention of this on that page nor on the next page.
Also you stated earlier this was from Oct. 62 and183 is Jan 63.

I just pulled out my copy and I'm with you Ken. There ias NO mention of this anywhere on the page.:blink::blink::doh::blink:

[Brian]

I just pulled out my copy and I'm with you Ken. There ias NO mention of this anywhere on the page.:blink::blink::doh::blink:


It's on there

[franny]

It's on there

Is there any way you can scan it and post it here?

franny

[utmom2008]

Is there any way you can scan it and post it here?

franny

That's a great idea Franny! Brian seems to have the only copy that shows this.:blink::blink:

[utmom2008]

I very much disagree with that

The thing is everybody on this board are very big die hard fans



That's an interesting statement coming from you. I think there are several members here that just might question how much of a "die-hard" fan that you really are.:blink:

You are certainly the only "die-hard" fan that I've ever heard of that didn't enjoy being at an Elvis concert. The only one I know of that preferred to sit at home and listen to his records instead.:doh::blink::doh:

Or maybe you were also reading that mysterious copy of "Day by Day" that no one else seems to have!:lmfao::lmfao:

[midnight]

Who is to say that Brian do not have a copy of a book with that information in it! I bet his is called "Elvis Day by Day, According to Brian"!;):lol:

[franny]

That's a great idea Franny! Brian seems to have the only copy that shows this.:blink::blink:

Thanks, Rosanne. (y) Every once in a while, I come up with one :lol:

I don't have this book, but Getlo mentioned there are five books with the same title...I don't have any of them, but why would there be five? :hmm:

franny

[utmom2008]

Thanks, Rosanne. (y) Every once in a while, I come up with one :lol:

I don't have this book, but Getlo mentioned there are five books with the same title...I don't have any of them, but why would there be five? :hmm:

franny

I didn't know there was that many either, but I do have the one that Brian is "quoting." There is nothing on that page that even resembles what he is talking about, Ken's page doesn't show it either.:blink::blink:

[Sonny]

Everybody cool it on the wise remarks please.

Not only here, but in several threads.

[Getlo]

I just pulled out my copy and I'm with you Ken. There ias NO mention of this anywhere on the page.:blink::blink::doh::blink:

Correct. It is not there on the edition that I have; no mention of anything like this for 1962 or anywhere else.


Getlo mentioned there are five books with the same title...I don't have any of them, but why would there be five? :hmm:

A distinct lack of imagination on the part of the authors.

If the poster does indeed have this, then I'd suggest he post it or give exact details of the book he has.

[jon_burrows]

Hi, I've just joined this thread so I'm not up to speed with the issues raised yet. But I've just checked my copy of "Elvis, Day By Day" and on page 181 there is an entry for Thu. Nov. 29 that refers to "The Biggest Tour Ever".

The book I have is "Elvis Day By Day, The Definitive Record Of His Life And Music" by Peter Guralnick and Ernst Jorgensen.

[Brian]

Who is to say that Brian do not have a copy of a book with that information in it! I bet his is called "Elvis Day by Day, According to Brian"!;):lol:

I saw the remarks from you and Roseanne and don't think they are funny or cute. if the two of you haven't heard of the 1962 aborted tour perhaps i'm the big die hard and not the two of you

I suspect I have a different edition or print of the book

I've talked with other fans on other boards who have read about the proposed 62 tour from the same book many times over the years.

To prove i'm not the only one with this copy
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.elvis.king/browse_thread/thread/6c219032845e3ea4/c3ac977d39b43f5f?lnk=gst&q=1962+tour+#c3ac977d39b43f5f

[KPM]

It's on there
Its on page 183????? where ? Its not 1962 on -page 183-its January 1963?

[KPM]

Hi, I've just joined this thread so I'm not up to speed with the issues raised yet. But I've just checked my copy of "Elvis, Day By Day" and on page 181 there is an entry for Thu. Nov. 29 that refers to "The Biggest Tour Ever".

The book I have is "Elvis Day By Day, The Definitive Record Of His Life And Music" by Peter Guralnick and Ernst Jorgensen.
Thank you it is indeed on page 181 thats helps quite a bit-having the right page number!(y)

[KPM]

I can't believe what I'm reading or that we are even discussing thisHave you thought that it was the products being released (King Ceole, Elvis Golden records vo1.1, the songs recorded in Nashville) that kept Elvis on those teen magazines for those 2 years.

I don't think all the fan clubs would've folded up or he would've lost all his fans but he would've lost some of them.
Colonel liked to gamble but he wasn't going to take this big a risk and just not release product and hope Elvis would remain popular and be popular when he got back after 2 years.
You can't believe what you are reading-why? You wanted opinions you got
one.

Yes the Colonel did like to gamble ask the Hilton or a few of the other casinos in Vegas!;)
But your original post said no one else except Parker would have come up with the idea of product in the can-I disagreed. I gave examples of just that being done in the 40s. You say Parker was the first to do it with songs -okay-but he was not the first to have the idea of stockpiling entertainment product to release in a stars absence-Exact same scenario-different product.
BUT the basic idea-is 100% the same-stockpiling product. Parker did not have a brainstorm idea-which someone else did not already have and use long before him.
You implied that without the product in the can-Elvis and his name would not have been kept in the public eye enough and his career would have suffered greatly-I disagreed.
I feel Elvis was a special entertainer-his charisma would have kept him in the public minds and hearts he would not have suffered.
You disagree-fine.
So what can you not believe you are reading and discussing?

[KPM]

I hesitate to ask this question Brian-but in the past you stated the Col could not set up tours or even one huge date in England of the many offers which came to Parker-because Elvis had the movies to make and the film recordings to do-which did not leave time for even a single date in England or Europe.
So if a single date in England or anywhere in Europe was not possible (which may have taken up say 3 weeks time total rehearsals, travel, etc) How could Parker book 40 plus dates which would have been very very time consuming (much more than 3 weeks probably 3 months)and Elvis have the time to do the movies and movie music plus get ready for the Worlds Biggest Tour?

[Brian]

I hesitate to ask this question Brian-but in the past you stated the Col could not set up tours or even one huge date in England of the many offers which came to Parker-because Elvis had the movies to make and the film recordings to do-which did not leave time for even a single date in England or Europe.
So if a single date in England or anywhere in Europe was not possible (which may have taken up say 3 weeks time total rehearsals, travel, etc) How could Parker book 40 plus dates which would have been very very time consuming (much more than 3 weeks probably 3 months)and Elvis have the time to do the movies and movie music plus get ready for the Worlds Biggest Tour?

Well the deal fell through

Parkers way of looking at things was 3 movies a year at 500,000 plus 25 to 50% of the profits was a lot of money. you wouldn't have to travel either.
remember ticket prices were very cheap then so making the movies would bring in more money than touring. I've heard Parker say this a couple of times

[Sonny]

Cool it down like I said, please.

If it's mentioned in the book Brian did not make this up himself did he now?

Respect friends, please.

[KPM]

Well the deal fell through

Parkers way of looking at things was 3 movies a year at 500,000 plus 25 to 50% of the profits was a lot of money. you wouldn't have to travel either.
remember ticket prices were very cheap then so making the movies would bring in more money than touring. I've heard Parker say this a couple of times
I am aware of the financial movie deals.
So that begs the question it it was not profitable from Parkers view why would he go to the trouble, have 40 something dates in mind-bill it the Worlds Biggest Tour-talk to RCA? Also-according to your past logic-the time constraints were the problem-there just was not time to do even one Wembly stadium date in England, let alone a 3 month set of dates across the US.
Time concerns do not change because of the money involved, the movies still take so much time, the recording takes so much time etc....
So if there was time for 40 plus dates in the US-there would have definitely been time for 1, or even a weeks worth of dates overseas-where the money would have surely been better if you go by reported offers Parker had turned down overtime.

[KPM]

Cool it down like I said, please.

If it's mentioned in the book Brian did not make this up himself did he now?

Respect friends, please.
I always try to respect everyone.
I have acknowledged that it is in the book (after J. Burrows gave us the proper page 181.) I also have told Brian in a pm that the point would not have been questioned if it had been where he said it was to start with.
I may remember a lot of things-but every single 4 or 5 line paragraph on something not well reported is pretty hard to remember when you read a lot of books. I read a lot of books on each year for work and play-the important parts are pretty easy to recall-but not every odd fact which is mentioned in a single book.

[Brian]

I always try to respect everyone.
I have acknowledged that it is in the book (after J. Burrows gave us the proper page 181.) I also have told Brian in a pm that the point would not have been questioned if it had been where he said it was to start with.
I may remember a lot of things-but every single 4 or 5 line paragraph on something not well reported is pretty hard to remember when you read a lot of books. I read a lot of books on each year for work and play-the important parts are pretty easy to recall-but not every odd fact which is mentioned in a single book.

I've read a lot of books to that's why I was a little off it happens.
The most important thing is the story about the 1962 tour is true.

I don't think Sonny was talking about you he was talking about Roseanne and Midnight who began implying I was lying about it.

That's not the case at all I just knew something they didn't which happens from time to time.


I don't like being called a liar which is wrong and uncalled for

[utmom2008]

I don't think Sonny was talking about you he was talking about Roseanne and Midnight who began implying I was lying about it.



My last post on this thread was at 8:55 last night. Since my last post Sonny has given 2 warnings, I never said another word after Sonny's first post at 3 AM, so I hardly think that his last warning was to me. There are 13 posts that have come since my last post,:supriced: so I hardly think Sonny's warning today at 1:37 PM were for me, or Kim. And, BTW...we were NOT the only 2 that questioned you, so please don't try to make us look like the only "bad guys"!;););)

[midnight]

I was not implying that you were lying Brian. I have heard of the World Tour that you were talking about. It is just that you come on so insistent that it was on a certain page in that book when everyone else said it was not!
Rosanne is right we were not the only ones to question you. The two of us just want to know where people get their facts at when they make certain comments.
Gee, Rosanne you are right......I think we are getting a reputation of being "bad girls".;)

[KPM]

1.Colonel Parker in October 1962 was in negotiations for Elvis to play 43 dates across the U.S. A tour he bills as the Biggest tour ever and RCA guarantees Elvis more than 1 million dollars however RCA eventually gets cold feet and wants it scaled back to 11 dates. The Colonel doesn't like that and declines the offer and the tour never takes place.

Now was this visionary-and even if it was-what did it accomplish for Elvis.
First RCA must have not guranteed to underwrite the tour on a contract-because Parker would have held them to the contract-so it must have not been a solid deal to start with. Secondly when RCA says only 11 dates Parker calls off he deal and it falls thru?
So IMO it would have been visionary if Parker had got it all in writing up front and it had taken place. He was "billing it the biggest tour ever" (which was obviously premature) before he had the deal sewn up lock stock and barrel.
But more importantly if it was "truely visionary" in his thinking would he let RCA put the stop to it. They are not the only ones who could have underwritten the tour-I'm sure there would have been any number of promoters who would have been very interested.
Studios like MGM or Paramount had been involved in sending Sinatra and Garland out which helped promote box office for their films so considering their long contracts with Elvis they quite possibly could have got involved also.
But Parker seemingly did not pursue this idea any further than RCA in what he probably saw as easy backing with little leg work.
If he truely believed it was something visionary which would be good for Elvis and his career-would he have not continued looking for backing or even he and Elvis could have promoted the tour themselves-(that would have truely been a visionary move)
But since Parker did not follow thru on this "biggest tour ever"-its an idea unrealized and it did nothing to help Elvis and his career. Good ideas are a dime a dozen-but without realization it is a mute point. IMO

[Brian]

I was not implying that you were lying Brian. I have heard of the World Tour that you were talking about. It is just that you come on so insistent that it was on a certain page in that book when everyone else said it was not!
Rosanne is right we were not the only ones to question you. The two of us just want to know where people get their facts at when they make certain comments.
Gee, Rosanne you are right......I think we are getting a reputation of being "bad girls".;)

That's not true

Ken asked me in a nice way where it was I don't have a problem with that just thought it was on page 183 I was wrong but I wasn't that far off.

you 2 were implying I was lying


I know what the two of you were doing

[Brian]

1.Colonel Parker in October 1962 was in negotiations for Elvis to play 43 dates across the U.S. A tour he bills as the Biggest tour ever and RCA guarantees Elvis more than 1 million dollars however RCA eventually gets cold feet and wants it scaled back to 11 dates. The Colonel doesn't like that and declines the offer and the tour never takes place.

Now was this visionary-and even if it was-what did it accomplish for Elvis.
First RCA must have not guranteed to underwrite the tour on a contract-because Parker would have held them to the contract-so it must have not been a solid deal to start with. Secondly when RCA says only 11 dates Parker calls off he deal and it falls thru?
So IMO it would have been visionary if Parker had got it all in writing up front and it had taken place. He was "billing it the biggest tour ever" (which was obviously premature) before he had the deal sewn up lock stock and barrel.
But more importantly if it was "truely visionary" in his thinking would he let RCA put the stop to it. They are not the only ones who could have underwritten the tour-I'm sure there would have been any number of promoters who would have been very interested.
Studios like MGM or Paramount had been involved in sending Sinatra and Garland out which helped promote box office for their films so considering their long contracts with Elvis they quite possibly could have got involved also.
But Parker seemingly did not pursue this idea any further than RCA in what he probably saw as easy backing with little leg work.
If he truely believed it was something visionary which would be good for Elvis and his career-would he have not continued looking for backing or even he and Elvis could have promoted the tour themselves-(that would have truely been a visionary move)
But since Parker did not follow thru on this "biggest tour ever"-its an idea unrealized and it did nothing to help Elvis and his career. Good ideas are a dime a dozen-but without realization it is a mute point. IMO

The idea in itself was visionary imo as I explained in detail on page 3

It's not Parkers fault the deal went through it's RCA's
I think him and RCA were in negotiations for it but they couldn't agree on it
If the tour went through it would've helped Elvis to tour again and the fans would've been happy to see Elvis do some more concerts

some fans view Elvis not touring at all in the 60's a missed opportunity.
so this would've took care of that.

[utmom2008]

That's not true

Ken asked me in a nice way where it was I don't have a problem with that just thought it was on page 183 I was wrong but I wasn't that far off.

you 2 were implying I was lying


I know what the two of you were doing

There was never an implication of lying.;)I have followed Sonny's wishes, and I might ask that you do the same.;);)

[utmom2008]

Rosanne is right we were not the only ones to question you.

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[KPM]

The idea in itself was visionary imo as I explained in detail on page 3

It's not Parkers fault the deal went through it's RCA's
I think him and RCA were in negotiations for it but they couldn't agree on it
If the tour went through it would've helped Elvis to tour again and the fans would've been happy to see Elvis do some more concerts

some fans view Elvis not touring at all in the 60's a missed opportunity.
so this would've took care of that.
It take 2 sides to negotiate-2 sides to agree-COl approached since it was his idea. The deal with... RCA ...fell thru-Col still could have pursued it with others as I said-he did not. IF it was the correct thing for Elvis and his career-PArker should have looked for other backers he did not-he could have kept after the deal until the money was in place and the deal was done-he did not. If he had, you are correct I would say this was a good move for Elvis to keep his vocaland performing fire alive and vital. But Parker gets one-NO- from RCA and that is that. You can point to it as a visionary idea-but he obviously did not see it as such cause he let it go-he did not follow thru.
One no is not the end of the world-for a visionary idea. Perhaps the truth is he did not see it as such-he saw it as an easy way to set up some shows, make some good money and have RCA pick up the bulk of the tab-with Elvis doing the performing.. When it was not as easy as he had assumed-he figured nothing lost-but a few phone calls. True visionary ideas are not dropped-the people believe in that vision and see it thru.

[Brian]

It take 2 sides to negotiate-2 sides to agree-COl approached since it was his idea. The deal with... RCA ...fell thru-Col still could have pursued it with others as I said-he did not. IF it was the correct thing for Elvis and his career-PArker should have looked for other backers he did not-he could have kept after the deal until the money was in place and the deal was done-he did not. If he had, you are correct I would say this was a good move for Elvis to keep his vocaland performing fire alive and vital. But Parker gets one-NO- from RCA and that is that. You can point to it as a visionary idea-but he obviously did not see it as such cause he let it go-he did not follow thru.
One no is not the end of the world-for a visionary idea. Perhaps the truth is he did not see it as such-he saw it as an easy way to set up some shows, make some good money and have RCA pick up the bulk of the tab-with Elvis doing the performing.. When it was not as easy as he had assumed-he figured nothing lost-but a few phone calls. True visionary ideas are not dropped-the people believe in that vision and see it thru.

I suppose you are right he could've went elsewhere if he wanted to but I still think it was a great idea.

[Sonny]

I was talking to all involved in this thread.

Also the second time, not only meaning this thread, but also some others.

Everybody was asking for facts, but there are nicer ways to ask somebody where the info comes from. In all cases.

Rosanne you had your say to Brian.
Brian of course replied to it.

So let's all leave it at this and take care of Elvis business now, that would be wonderful!

[utmom2008]

So let's all leave it at this and take care of Elvis business now, that would be wonderful!

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