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memphisflash
02-03-2009, 11:47 AM
This is some total BS.(n)(n) Talk about giving credit to the wrong person. This is evident of that. If it weren't for Elvis Buddy Holly wouldn't have even had a music career. He got his influence from Elvis, as did Richie Valens.

Buddy Holly - the "almost" anti-Elvis: On the 50th anniversary of his death, we trace Buddy Holly's posthumous ascent from boy next door to rock and roll's first real artist.
He was the first of the dead rock stars. Buddy Holly's swift rise and tragic end set a template for a certain kind of posthumous rock idolatry. I wasn't even born when Holly was killed in a plane crash 50 years ago tomorrow, yet here we are still talking about him 50 years later, speculating on why he was so important to pop culture, wondering what would have become of him had he lived.

Yet, in so many ways, Holly seems an unlikely candidate for posthumous deification. Rock's death cults usually form around self-destructive rebels: Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Sid Vicious, Kurt Cobain (and, in rap, Tupac Shakur and The Notorious B.I.G.), characters who correspond to that melodramatic part of the teenage psyche that is ready to destroy the world and **** the consequences. Fresh faced, geeky, bespectacled, smiling and sweet voiced, Holly certainly doesn't conform to the cliché of living fast, dying young and leaving a beautiful corpse.

R.I.P.......Buddy Holley, Ritchie Valens & J.P. Richardson (aka The Big Bopper)



Had it been Elvis Presley in that plane, the pop world would have been shaken to its core, but would it have been so surprised? Elvis had an other-worldly quality, his greaseball surliness so threatening to America's vision of itself that they drafted him into the army and cut off his quiff. Holly had the demeanour of the boy next door, which is, perhaps, what made his death so truly shocking.
"That'll be the day-hay-hay when I die," he sang, but it was throwaway teen bravura, effective precisely because he couldn't imagine such a circumstance. There was no brooding foreboding in his music, which breathed with lightness and life, rhythmic zing, melodic air. He was innocence crushed, potential stamped out. Holly is such a compelling figure of tragedy because he embodies the terrible truth that death comes to everyone.

Two other rock and rollers died in that plane crash, but it is Holly we remember because his music was pitched at the highest level, with a quality and originality that has resonated throughout pop culture. At a time when most pop stars were still musical vehicles for songwriters and producers, Holly was the first complete artist in the modern way.

He was a singer-songwriter and self-producer who did about as much with four chords (at least one more than most rock and rollers of the era used) as it was possible to do. His Fender Stratocaster guitar licks are prototypes for rock's obsession with riffing, which Holly weaves through seamlessly structured, melodically expansive songs. The rhythm tracks are sprightly and inventive: listen to Cricket drummer Jerry Allison's rolling tom tom's on Peggy Sue, or the cardboard-box beat of Not Fade Away.

The lyrics are witty and conversational (full of flip teen phrases such as "maybe, baby" and "Oh, boy!"), with the spoken vitality of real life and undercurrents of emotional depth: What To Do tackles heartbreak with gentle reflection rather than melodramatic angst. And Holly was a bold vocal stylist, who could split a syllable eight different ways at once. There is almost nothing to the lyric of Peggy Sue, yet his variations are like a comedic dare, constantly returning to the core phrase to invest it with another level of desire.

Holly came out of the country music tradition, which is reflected in the economy and wit of his writing. He played with the Crickets at high school but had his head turned after opening for Elvis Presley in 1955. It is reported that Holly changed the band's musical direction almost overnight. Yet he was almost the anti-Elvis. He cut records with guitar-twisting grooves that teenagers wanted to dance to, but there was simply nothing about Holly that evoked the revolutionary, sexually liberated spirit that made this youth movement so threatening to an older generation.

Indeed, Paul Anka (who toured on the same bill as Holly and wrote It Doesn't Matter Anymore for his friend) has claimed that Holly envied Anka's career as a mainstream pop idol and wanted to move his music in a more old-fashioned, romantic direction (as evinced on his posthumously released orchestral sessions, that gave us such Holly classics True Love Ways and the definitive cover of Raining In My Heart). Had he lived, I wonder would we even think of him now as a rock idol?

Yet Holly had a huge impact in his time, precisely because his apparent ordinariness made young musicians everywhere feel they could do what he was doing. "With Elvis, you thought, 'God, he's good looking.' With Buddy, it was like, 'God, he's the boy next door'," Paul McCartney recently acknowledged. "It was a particular bonus for John, who had horn-rimmed glasses but whipped them off whenever girls came near. Now he wore them proudly."

There was a real liberation in the unapologetic plainness of Holly's image. Frank Allen of the Searchers called it "the revenge of the nerd". But it was the undeniable quality of the music that made the revenge complete.


McCartney and Lennon were suitably enamoured to name their band after an insect in homage to the Crickets. The Beatles' mix of rock drive and pop melody, lashed together with harmonies, owes much to Holly's inspiration. The Rolling Stones chose a Buddy Holly track for their second single, Not Fade Away, investing it with a dark, sexy swagger that gave them their first hit. Bob Dylan was hugely inspired by Holly, catching a glimpse of his own possible future in this small-town geek who wrote and sang his own songs. That is a trio of artists who could be said to have shaped modern popular music. Holly may have played a greater part in all of that had he lived.
When he died, he was just 22 and had released only three albums. But he left a lot of music behind, songs that would subsequently be finished off by his collaborators, with new Holly recordings being released throughout the Sixties. In that sense, he really was a prototype for the necrophilia of rock culture.

It Doesn't Matter Anymore went to number one in Britain the week after the plane crash. The compilation The Buddy Holly Story remained in the charts for three years. In American Pie, Don McLean characterised the plane crash as the day the music died, but really, it is what has kept the music alive. Eternally fixed in his first surge of creative brilliance, Buddy Holly raves on for ever. (News, Source: The Telegraph UK, Neil McCormick)

franny
02-03-2009, 11:57 AM
More important? We're all human and nobody is "more" important than anyone else...

Buddy Holly was a great talent and he died tragically, but Elvis will always be #1 to me!

franny

memphisflash
02-03-2009, 12:07 PM
More important? We're all human and nobody is "more" important than anyone else...

Buddy Holly was a great talent and he died tragically, but Elvis will always be #1 to me!

franny I mean "more important" as in historically. No way is he more important than Elvis when it comes to pop culture. like Is aid. Without Elvis breaking those cultural and racial boundaries there wouldn't have been anyplace for white guys like Holly or Lewis and Cash. Because their careers were built around Rockabilly. My point for posting this story was to show how biased and anti-Elvis it is. I bet if you ask most kids today who's Buddy holly they wouldn't be able to tell you a thing about him. I like Holly's music but it's nothing legendary or historical as Elvis' 50's records are.(n)

ehollier
02-03-2009, 12:14 PM
Thanks for sharing this. I actually read this last night, but didn't put it on the MB. Thanks again.

KPM
02-03-2009, 12:17 PM
Buddy had a country group- until he saw Elvis perform in Texas, then he wanted to be a rock n roller. So Elvis inspired Buddy to the type music that Buddy became famous for. I do not see him more importantly than Elvis historically-if he had inspired Elvis to change his musical direction it would be different-but he did not.
Buddy was a great singer/songwriter and he had a very promising future he had some big classic rock and roll hits and his influence on future rockers is not in question.

ehollier
02-03-2009, 12:30 PM
I think that Buddy Holly and the Big Bopper and Richie Valens were 3 musicians that added to the musical landscape of the 50's just as Chuch Berry and Roy Obinson, just to name a few. As unfortunate as their early deaths were, it was another circumstance that fell into Elvis favor when he returned from the Army.

nyc
02-03-2009, 01:22 PM
Yet he was almost the anti-Elvis. He cut records with guitar-twisting grooves that teenagers wanted to dance to, but there was simply nothing about Holly that evoked the revolutionary, sexually liberated spirit that made this youth movement so threatening to an older generation.

I didn't find this article that annoying, actually - and I find the way some of the media find it necessary to run down Elvis in order to praise his contemporaries like Holly, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, etc. REALLY irritating.

I thought the author was saying that Holly made it big as as a clean cut, less threatening version of pre-Army Elvis. And that he was in a sense easier to relate to than Elvis, because Elvis was so good looking.

At least we didn't get the obligatory "Buddy Holly was the REAL King" line that turns up in so many articles about 50s rockers.


Indeed, Paul Anka (who toured on the same bill as Holly and wrote It Doesn't Matter Anymore for his friend) has claimed that Holly envied Anka's career as a mainstream pop idol and wanted to move his music in a more old-fashioned, romantic direction (as evinced on his posthumously released orchestral sessions, that gave us such Holly classics True Love Ways and the definitive cover of Raining In My Heart). Had he lived, I wonder would we even think of him now as a rock idol?

But it's funny how much criticism Elvis gets for going in that direction, while it's just an interesting choice by Holly, LOL.

easyrider
02-03-2009, 01:51 PM
Elvis is the number #1

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 02:06 PM
I didn't read where it said Buddy was more important than Elvis.

I thought it was a good, accurate article.

Considering this is the 50th anniversary of his death, there are going to be a lot of nice things written and said about all three who died, maybe we shouldn't get all bent out of shape over it.

KPM
02-03-2009, 02:29 PM
I didn't read where it said Buddy was more important than Elvis.I thought it was a good, accurate article.

Considering this is the 50th anniversary of his death, there are going to be a lot of nice things written and said about all three who died, maybe we shouldn't get all bent out of shape over it.
I didn't either-I thought maybe I just missed it?

Jumpsuit Junkie
02-03-2009, 02:52 PM
Buddy holly has a place in history just as many others, Buddy is in no way a threat to Elvis as each were worlds apart in many ways.

KPM
02-03-2009, 02:59 PM
Buddy holly has a place in history just as many others, Buddy is in no way a threat to Elvis as each were worlds apart in many ways.
Totally agree.(y)(y)

Brian
02-03-2009, 05:28 PM
I think if Buddy Holly had lived he wouldn't of had this great career with a bunch of hits like so many people have speculated.

even his last few singles released before he died weren't charting all that high and it seemed he was moving away from rock n'' roll

I think Buddy Holly would've had a few more hits going into the 60's
his band member Sonny Curtis wrote ''I fought the Law'' in the early 60's so I can see Buddy recording that before Bobby Fuller.

I do think Buddy just like all the 50's rock n'' rollers would have been blown away by the Beatles and the British Invasion and just like that Holly's hit making days would've been over.

I do see Buddy continuing to record albums and experiment with his music but none of this music would sell.

I basically see Holly doing rock n'' roll oldies tours with Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Fats Domino.


To Elvis credit he's the only one of the 50's original rockers to have continued success in the 60's and 70's and the only one to survive the British invasion.

Elvis had something like 114 top 40 hits throughout his career and numerous hit albums. If you were to combine the record sales of Little Richrd, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, The Everly brothers, Bo Diddley and Buddy Holly Elvis outsells them all with a lot left over.

Raised on Rock
02-03-2009, 05:29 PM
[QUOTE=memphisflash;286622]This is some total BS.(n)(n) Talk about giving credit to the wrong person. This is evident of that. If it weren't for Elvis Buddy Holly wouldn't have even had a music career. He got his influence from Elvis, as did Richie Valens.[QUOTE]

Some total BS? Dude this article is good and does not puts down Elvis at any point, could you be more specific about where does gives credit to the wrong person? cause I just can´t find it. You are saying that if it weren't for Elvis, Buddy Holly wouldn´t even had a music career, did you realize that that is exactly what this article is saying.

In fact this is one of those few articles where they praise a 50's rocker by bringing out his own merits, that in this case, in contrast with the King's talent, instead of just complaining in how they were greater than Elvis but never got the same media attention. Maybe you need to give it a second read.

About the thread question, no, Holly, is not musically more important than Elvis, but I think this article has anything to do with that question.

LtCarman
02-03-2009, 05:41 PM
To Elvis credit he's the only one of the 50's original rockers to have continued success in the 60's and 70's and the only one to survive the British invasion.


This has to be the first good thing you have said about Elvis. It is now the end of the world.

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo21/LtCarman/world.jpg

Anyways, all joking aside, I really do not see anything that is putting down Elvis or not giving him credit.

franny
02-03-2009, 05:55 PM
I mean "more important" as in historically. No way is he more important than Elvis when it comes to pop culture. like Is aid. Without Elvis breaking those cultural and racial boundaries there wouldn't have been anyplace for white guys like Holly or Lewis and Cash. Because their careers were built around Rockabilly. My point for posting this story was to show how biased and anti-Elvis it is. I bet if you ask most kids today who's Buddy holly they wouldn't be able to tell you a thing about him. I like Holly's music but it's nothing legendary or historical as Elvis' 50's records are.(n)

Sorry about that..:blush: I was replying to the thread title, but should have known you meant historically..

I did enjoy reading the article...thank you! (y)

franny

cbg84
02-03-2009, 05:56 PM
I mean "more important" as in historically. No way is he more important than Elvis when it comes to pop culture. like Is aid. Without Elvis breaking those cultural and racial boundaries there wouldn't have been anyplace for white guys like Holly or Lewis and Cash. Because their careers were built around Rockabilly. My point for posting this story was to show how biased and anti-Elvis it is. I bet if you ask most kids today who's Buddy holly they wouldn't be able to tell you a thing about him. I like Holly's music but it's nothing legendary or historical as Elvis' 50's records are.(n)

(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

epmoodyblue
02-03-2009, 06:02 PM
eh who cares....about articles:blink: blah blah blah:blink:...today marks 50 years he has left us..... i will simply say.....RIP BUDDY HOLLY we miss you:notworthy:notworthy:king:http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/selenauno/smiley-gen101.gif heep rockin the heavens like you did on earth

memphis69
02-03-2009, 06:23 PM
BUDDY HOLLY DESERVES HIS PLACE IN ROCK N' ROLL HISTORY JUST LIKE ELVIS!!

ehollier
02-03-2009, 08:14 PM
..........................
To Elvis credit he's the only one of the 50's original rockers to have continued success in the 60's and 70's and the only one to survive the British invasion.

Elvis had something like 114 top 40 hits throughout his career and numerous hit albums. If you were to combine the record sales of Little Richrd, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, The Everly brothers, Bo Diddley and Buddy Holly Elvis outsells them all with a lot left over.


WOW Brian, I didn't think you could say anything positive about Elvis. I'm impressed.

Brian
02-03-2009, 08:19 PM
WOW Brian, I didn't think you could say anything positive about Elvis. I'm impressed.

that's actually not true

I'm misunderstood

ehollier
02-03-2009, 08:20 PM
that's actually not true

I'm misunderstood

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot. You were just JOKING!!!!!!

Brian
02-03-2009, 08:26 PM
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot. You were just JOKING!!!!!!


I'm not joking

everything I've said about Elvis in this thread is just 100% factual and true

I think my opinion on Buddy Holly is a great one

shelley.m.
02-03-2009, 08:27 PM
Elvis "kicked" open the door for other white Rock artists in the 50's.

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 08:29 PM
I think if Buddy Holly had lived he wouldn't of had this great career with a bunch of hits like so many people have speculated.

even his last few singles released before he died weren't charting all that high and it seemed he was moving away from rock n'' roll

I think Buddy Holly would've had a few more hits going into the 60's
his band member Sonny Curtis wrote ''I fought the Law'' in the early 60's so I can see Buddy recording that before Bobby Fuller.

I do think Buddy just like all the 50's rock n'' rollers would have been blown away by the Beatles and the British Invasion and just like that Holly's hit making days would've been over.

I do see Buddy continuing to record albums and experiment with his music but none of this music would sell.

I basically see Holly doing rock n'' roll oldies tours with Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Fats Domino.


To Elvis credit he's the only one of the 50's original rockers to have continued success in the 60's and 70's and the only one to survive the British invasion.

Elvis had something like 114 top 40 hits throughout his career and numerous hit albums. If you were to combine the record sales of Little Richrd, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, The Everly brothers, Bo Diddley and Buddy Holly Elvis outsells them all with a lot left over.

We'll never know.

Wendy56
02-03-2009, 08:30 PM
I like Elvis more than Buddy: looks, voice, everything. BUt everybody has a different opinion.
Both gave something especial to music history. Maybe... Elvis had more time.

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 08:32 PM
I think my opinion on Buddy Holly is a great one

.....and misguided.

Brian
02-03-2009, 08:34 PM
We'll never know.


I'm pretty sure that Buddy Holly would've had the same problems the other rock n'' roll pioneers did.

Brian
02-03-2009, 08:35 PM
.....and misguided.


watch it rock n'' roll

my opinion on this is great

LtCarman
02-03-2009, 08:42 PM
Brian, your opinion isn't always the best. As a matter of fact, no one's opinion is the best. An opinion is just an opinion. You can't force it down on others. Same goes for you Rocknroll. Just because you do not agree with Brian, does not give you the right to call him misguided, no matter how much you do not agree with him.

End of story.

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 08:51 PM
I'm pretty sure that Buddy Holly would've had the same problems the other rock n'' roll pioneers did.

You'll never know. I think the facts of his early career point to a different conclusion than the one you come up with.

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 08:52 PM
watch it rock n'' roll

my opinion on this is great

Misguided, not great.

cbg84
02-03-2009, 08:58 PM
BUDDY HOLLY DESERVES HIS PLACE IN ROCK N' ROLL HISTORY JUST LIKE ELVIS!!

(y) Personally most people deserve their place in history. Partical credit may or should go to someone or another but most people got where they are on their own and deserve it.

Brian
02-03-2009, 08:59 PM
Brian, your opinion isn't always the best. As a matter of fact, no one's opinion is the best. An opinion is just an opinion. You can't force it down on others. Same goes for you Rocknroll. Just because you do not agree with Brian, does not give you the right to call him misguided, no matter how much you do not agree with him.

End of story.

Well I feel so much better now that LTCarmen told me and rocknroll how it is

Didn't say my opinion was the best it's just great

LtCarman
02-03-2009, 09:02 PM
Well I feel so much better now that LTCarmen told me and rocknroll how it is

Didn't say my opinion was the best it's just great

Your opinion may be great to you and everybody else that agrees with it, but it may not be great to anybody else that does not agree with it.

Is it just me or do threads seem to get side tracked more often than not?

Brian
02-03-2009, 09:05 PM
Misguided, not great.


I think your misguided if you think Buddy Holly would've survived the British invasion.

The other 50's rock n'' roll pioneers were talented to but they fell by the wayside in the mid 60's and I don't see why Holly would've been any different.

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 09:10 PM
Same goes for you Rocknroll. Just because you do not agree with Brian, does not give you the right to call him misguided, no matter how much you do not agree with him.

End of story.

Open your eyes, or learn to read. I didn't say Brian was misguided, I said his opinion was. Comprehension not one of your strengths?

However, you ARE misguided. PM me if you aren't sure what that means. :D

franny
02-03-2009, 09:11 PM
that's actually not true

I'm misunderstood

What makes you say that? :lol:

franny

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 09:13 PM
I think your misguided if you think Buddy Holly would've survived the British invasion.

The other 50's rock n'' roll pioneers were talented to but they fell by the wayside in the mid 60's and I don't see why Holly would've been any different.

My opinion is he would not only have survived the British Invasion but thrived. Holly was a talented musician, songwriter, producer, performer, etc., etc. It's the ones that were just "entertainers" that didn't survive.

That's my opinion, and it is the greatest. :D

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 09:14 PM
Your opinion may be great to you and everybody else that agrees with it, but it may not be great to anybody else that does not agree with it.

Is it just me or do threads seem to get side tracked more often than not?

Side tracked by you and your weak attempt to tell somebody off.

Me? I'm still talking about Buddy Holly.

Brian
02-03-2009, 09:17 PM
My opinion is he would not only have survived the British Invasion but thrived. Holly was a talented mucision, songwriter, producer, performer, etc., etc. It's the ones that were just "entertainers" that didn't survive.

That's my opinion, and it is the greatest. :D

Didn't Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, and Little Richard all write songs and were good musicians and good performers as well?

Ricky Nelson started writing his own songs during the second half of his career and didn't go anywhere.

LtCarman
02-03-2009, 09:26 PM
Side tracked by you and your weak attempt to tell somebody off.

Me? I'm still talking about Buddy Holly.

Oh, yeah, I'm defiantly trying to tell somebody you. That is my sole purpose in life. If anything, you are the one that is trying to tell somebody off.

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 09:27 PM
Didn't Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, and Little Richard all write songs and were good musicians and good performers as well?

Ricky Nelson started writing his own songs during the second half of his career and didn't go anywhere.

That's why I said we'll never know. Holly died BEFORE the British Invasion.

Try to keep up Brian.

Besides, I wouldn't say Chuck Berry and Little Richard didn't "survive". Two poor examples. Try again.

Brian
02-03-2009, 09:32 PM
That's why I said we'll never know. Holly died BEFORE the British Invasion.

Try to keep up Brian.

Besides, I wouldn't say Chuck Berry and Little Richard didn't "survive". Two poor examples. Try again.

That's what i'm saying based on the others success Holly would have had somewhere around the same amount of success

Berry and Little Richard didn't have hardly any success after the British Invasion. Little Richard had nothing and Berry only had a couple top 20 hits



Berry and Richard are good examples

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 09:34 PM
[QUOTE=LtCarman;286854]Oh, yeah, I'm defiantly trying to tell somebody you. QUOTE]

Please translate.

That's why I said it was weak, and there you go again.

LtCarman
02-03-2009, 09:36 PM
[QUOTE=LtCarman;286854]Oh, yeah, I'm defiantly trying to tell somebody you. QUOTE]

Please translate.

That's why I said it was weak, and there you go again.

Oh, so I made a typo! It's the end of the world!

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 09:37 PM
That's what i'm saying based on the others success Holly would have had somewhere around the same amount of success

Berry and Little Richard didn't have hardly any success after the British Invasion. Little Richard had nothing and Berry only had a couple top 20 hits



Berry and Richard are good examples

Oh, you are going by chart success.

I'm not, I'm going by lasting legacy and importance in other areas (changes to music, influence, etc.). In that case, Richard and Berry are very poor examples, as would Buddy Holly have been.

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 09:37 PM
[quote=rocknroll;286858]

Oh, so I made a typo! It's the end of the world!

That was a typo? I thought it was just you being you. :D

LtCarman
02-03-2009, 09:38 PM
I'm not even going to bother with you.

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 09:39 PM
I'm not even going to bother with you.

Right .

Brian
02-03-2009, 09:39 PM
Oh, you are going by chart success.

I'm not, I'm going by lasting legacy and importance in other areas (changes to music, influence, etc.). In that case, Richard and Berry are very poor examples, as would Buddy Holly have been.

I think Chuck Berry matches up well with Buddy Holly in terms of influence etc.

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 09:49 PM
I think Chuck Berry matches up well with Buddy Holly in terms of influence etc.

I agree. However, Chuck has had 50 years to match Buddy's two. Had Holly lived he would have been huge and even more influential.

Brian
02-03-2009, 09:53 PM
I agree. However, Chuck has had 50 years to match Buddy's two. Had Holly lived he would have been huge and even more influential.


I think only Chuck's early music and career is seen as influential

his been coasting on that reputation the rest of the time

TotallyInsane
02-03-2009, 09:55 PM
OK guys - recess is over - back in the classroom with your best manners!!!

rocknroll
02-03-2009, 10:11 PM
OK guys - recess is over - back in the classroom with your best manners!!!

We're discussing Buddy Holly in a Buddy Holly thread.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Getlo
02-04-2009, 02:30 AM
There is nothing anti-Elvis in this article at all. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

Ninety-five precent of the reason why Buddy Holly is remembered today is because he died in a plane crash.

And that is rememembered primarily because his was the first real rock star death. (The Big Bopper and Richie Valens were and always will be mere footnotes in music).

Had Holly lived much longer, or died a bit later in a nondescript way, he'd be regarded today like, say, Eddie Cochran ... ie another footnote.

But to say that Holly and others wouldn't have had a career were it not for Elvis is pure poppycock.

jak
02-04-2009, 03:38 AM
Time wasnt kind to most of Elvis' contemporaries from the 50's.At least from their recording careers and sustained popularity.Elvis was truly in a class of his own.Holly was certainly a talented figure.If he had survived I think his greatest chance at longevity would have been as a songwriter.He didnt have the looks or voice as an entertainer that would have set himself apart from many other performers that eventually faded into the background from that era.I think it's correct to say his importance is elevated just because of his untimely death.For me personally I dont believe he deserves to be placed in the same category as somebody like Chuck Berry who deserves any and all praise he gets for what he did.To sum it up,Elvis was king of the hill and then you have the rest.

Suspicious Minds
02-04-2009, 03:45 AM
Buddy Holly was one of the first to write and record his songs. Where as Elvis was supplied with the songs he recorded.
Elvis was more important to a lot of singers who started to sing because they wanted to be like Elvis. Not like Buddy.
Who's fault was it the fatal aircrash that killed Buddy, Ritchie Valens and the Big Bopper?

Getlo
02-04-2009, 04:28 AM
Who's fault was it the fatal aircrash that killed Buddy, Ritchie Valens and the Big Bopper?

The pilot's for going up in such bad weather, but what's that got to do with anything?

rocknroll
02-04-2009, 07:09 AM
There is nothing anti-Elvis in this article at all. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

Ninety-five precent of the reason why Buddy Holly is remembered today is because he died in a plane crash.

And that is rememembered primarily because his was the first real rock star death. (The Big Bopper and Richie Valens were and always will be mere footnotes in music).

Had Holly lived much longer, or died a bit later in a nondescript way, he'd be regarded today like, say, Eddie Cochran ... ie another footnote.

But to say that Holly and others wouldn't have had a career were it not for Elvis is pure poppycock.

Opinion ?

Tommy
02-04-2009, 08:34 AM
Stay on topic, stop the nasty personal attacks please.

Sonny
02-04-2009, 09:21 AM
The article in the original post is a nice article and not that far from the truth.

Like Tommy said, stay on topic now, otherwise this thread will be closed.

And stay on topic in all threads everybody!

Joe Car
02-04-2009, 10:11 AM
Elvis had a major impact on Buddy Holly's career, as he did on most artists who started around the same time or after. Buddy Holly was a great artist, but unlike Elvis, he didn't change the world. Elvis' impact and importance is second to none as he changed the music and entertainment industry forever, not only through his genius as a singer and performer, but with his charisma and unbelievable looks.

elvispresleytheking
02-04-2009, 10:46 AM
Hey, most music stores don't even replenish their Elvis collections these days, it's so sad. yet so many other people are recognized and gain more fame these days that just aren't that great.

rocknroll
02-04-2009, 11:00 AM
Elvis had a major impact on Buddy Holly's career, as he did on most artists who started around the same time or after. Buddy Holly was a great artist, but unlike Elvis, he didn't change the world. Elvis' impact and importance is second to none as he changed the music and entertainment industry forever, not only through his genius as a singer and performer, but with his charisma and unbelievable looks.

I don't think any of what you said is in dispute.

Raised on Rock
02-04-2009, 11:02 AM
There is nothing anti-Elvis in this article at all. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

Great to know that there is actually people READING the articles, instead of just posting the usual: no one is bigger than Elvis BS, without even realize, no one was putting down Elvis or rest him any credit in this one.

Artilce was just giving credit to Holly for being diferent to Elvis, anti-Elvis just as oposite image, can't find where does gives credit to the wrong person, can't see an answer about that form the thread starter either.

KPM
02-04-2009, 11:48 AM
I think maybe the name of this thread was ill chosen as I did not see anything which raised the question about importance between Buddy and Elvis.

ehollier
02-04-2009, 11:53 AM
Hey, most music stores don't even replenish their Elvis collections these days, it's so sad. yet so many other people are recognized and gain more fame these days that just aren't that great.

I don't know I agree with you on this. I've even inquired about certain Elvis CD's and DVD's at places Target and Best Buy. They seem to sell well and are often waiting for another shipment of Elvis merchandise.

Raised on Rock
02-04-2009, 12:47 PM
I think maybe the name of this thread was ill chosen as I did not see anything which raised the question about importance between Buddy and Elvis.

That seems to be the case KMP, but its weird how most people went right into answering what I call a misguided question, without even notice what the article was really about.

This is no ofence to no one please, but I believe it is most important to be a little bit more reflexive and pay more attention to the writer intentions, instead of just act out of past angers raised by other articles, past articles about 50's rockers that did put down Elvis with no reason, and go acting as a Presleyan fundamentalist.

This was a good article, and if they overrated or not Buddy Hollys importance, that does not take anything from Presley in any paragraph to me.

KPM
02-04-2009, 01:48 PM
That seems to be the case KMP, but its weird how most people went right into answering what I call a misguided question, without even notice what the article was really about.

This is no ofence to no one please, but I believe it is most important to be a little bit more reflexive and pay more attention to the writer intentions, instead of just act out of past angers raised by other articles, past articles about 50's rockers that did put down Elvis with no reason, and go acting as a Presleyan fundamentalist.

This was a good article, and if they overrated or not Buddy Hollys importance, that does not take anything from Presley in any paragraph to me.
I actually read the article-but thought I must have missed something or misunderstood something about it. When others began to say they saw no reference about whos more important I realized I was initially correct.

utmom2008
02-04-2009, 02:43 PM
I actually read the article-but thought I must have missed something or misunderstood something about it. When others began to say they saw no reference about whos more important I realized I was initially correct.

I love it when I have one of those "So I'm NOT crazy after all" moments.:lol::lol:

elvisfan92
02-04-2009, 03:10 PM
total bs i also heard someone say " f**** Elvis and Michael, Dean "Dino" Martin is the real king of music"

Diane
02-04-2009, 05:12 PM
Elvis was in a class of his own and can't be compared to anyone else.

Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Little Richard etc. all had something to contribute as well and were important to the musical field, just not quite on the same level as Elvis....in my opinion.

Diane

shelley.m.
02-04-2009, 06:44 PM
Plain and simple.Elvis had "IT" all! Elvis looked the part of a Rock'n'Roller,where as Buddy Holly looked more like a school teacher.I'm not knocking Buddy Holly.I have a few of his records in my collection but I would definitely go with Elvis!

john carpenter
02-04-2009, 07:19 PM
Elvis "kicked" open the door for other white Rock artists in the 50's.
I totally agree shelly..also if buddy had lived to be 71 years old he would not be as great as Elvis musically speaking!(y)

TotallyInsane
02-04-2009, 07:27 PM
Buddy who????? :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

Raised on Rock
02-05-2009, 12:14 AM
I think maybe the name of this thread was ill chosen as I did not see anything which raised the question about importance between Buddy and Elvis.

And they keep coming reacting on the title but not reading the article.

Raised on Rock
02-05-2009, 07:32 PM
P.S. Buddy Holly is great, and it is because of what he did, not because what he could have done if bla bla...

shelley.m.
02-05-2009, 09:07 PM
P.S. Buddy Holly is great, and it is because of what he did, not because what he could have done if bla bla...

I'm not "knocking" Buddy Holly.He was a talented singer and song writer in his own right.

Brian
02-06-2009, 11:55 AM
In some ways I think Buddy Holly was more influential than Elvis
Sure in the 50's there was a lot of Elvis sound alikes like Gene Vincent and Ral Donner and Conway Twitty on the song it's only make believe
but in the 60's not so much. Elvis inspired the Beatles and most of the other British and 60's rock bands to become singers and musicians but he didn't influence their sound. The early Beatles got their sound primarily from Buddy Holly and the Everly Brothers. so did many other bands like the Hollies
I don't hear Elvis in the musical sound of the 60's while I do hear Holly as his 50's sound was the blueprint for the Mersey beat sound that became popular during the decade.
The only two artists that I can think of that Elvis influenced musically from the 60's would be CCR and Tom Jones.
CCR roots rock sound is an update of Elvis 50's sound, listen to I'm Right, your left, she's gone. Tom Jones definately got some vocal influences from Elvis. So when I think of it Buddy Holly was more influential on the music of the 60's than Elvis.
So I suppose you could make an argument that Holly was more important in rock music than Elvis at least in some ways.

KPM
02-06-2009, 04:31 PM
In some ways I think Buddy Holly was more influential than Elvis
Sure in the 50's there was a lot of Elvis sound alikes like Gene Vincent and Ral Donner and Conway Twitty on the song it's only make believe
but in the 60's not so much. Elvis inspired the Beatles and most of the other British and 60's rock bands to become singers and musicians but he didn't influence their sound. The early Beatles got their sound primarily from Buddy Holly and the Everly Brothers. so did many other bands like the Hollies
I don't hear Elvis in the musical sound of the 60's while I do hear Holly as his 50's sound was the blueprint for the Mersey beat sound that became popular during the decade.
The only two artists that I can think of that Elvis influenced musically from the 60's would be CCR and Tom Jones.
CCR roots rock sound is an update of Elvis 50's sound, listen to I'm Right, your left, she's gone. Tom Jones definately got some vocal influences from Elvis. So when I think of it Buddy Holly was more influential on the music of the 60's than Elvis.
So I suppose you could make an argument that Holly was more important in rock music than Elvis at least in some ways.
I suppose you could make that argument-but in my opinion it would be wrong. I think Holly was influential-but I think Elvis inspired many to "make music" not necessarily Elvis sounding music-but inspired people none the less.
Paul Simon was inspired by Elvis to sing and play guitar-yet his music does not sound like Elvis. Thats one example-of inspiration to make music.

utmom2008
02-06-2009, 06:09 PM
I suppose you could make that argument-but in my opinion it would be wrong. I think Holly was influential-but I think Elvis inspired many to "make music" not necessarily Elvis sounding music-but inspired people none the less.
Paul Simon was inspired by Elvis to sing and play guitar-yet his music does not sound like Elvis. Thats one example-of inspiration to make music.

I agree with you Ken, John Lennon summed it up well in the picture below....
30131

Brian
02-06-2009, 06:50 PM
I suppose you could make that argument-but in my opinion it would be wrong. I think Holly was influential-but I think Elvis inspired many to "make music" not necessarily Elvis sounding music-but inspired people none the less.
Paul Simon was inspired by Elvis to sing and play guitar-yet his music does not sound like Elvis. Thats one example-of inspiration to make music.

your just saying what I just said in my previous post. Elvis was more an inspiration than an actual influence

riley
02-07-2009, 06:00 AM
Buddy had a great voice and nice songs. So did Ritchie Valens and also Paul Anka and Cliff Richard IMO.
I just LOVE Roy Orbison and Tom Jones too.

But Elvis was the best.;)

Here the whole package was there. And gosh he was sooooo gorgeous.:lol:

He keeps fascinating me till today and I'm now a fan for over 31 years.
Never got tired of him, never.

Diane
02-07-2009, 07:52 AM
For me I think it says a lot that I only have one LP of all the other singers and a very large stack of Elvis that I started collecting since I was in my young teens.

Diane

KPM
02-07-2009, 01:48 PM
your just saying what I just said in my previous post. Elvis was more an inspiration than an actual influence
I think the 2 go hand in hand in order to inspire someone you must have had some influence upon whatever you inspired them to do.

ehollier
02-07-2009, 01:58 PM
I think the 2 go hand in hand in order to inspire someone you must have had some influence upon whatever you inspired them to do.

That's what I've been thinking, Ken. More often than not, inspiration and influence go hand in hand. Usually, if a person is not inspired by someone or something, there is not going to any influence of that particular person or thing. However, if something or someone inspries you, chances are very high that inspiration leads to influence.....whether it be music, politics, religion. It is my opinion, that this remark was just another attempt to split hairs and further debate on this topic, which seems to be a recurrent theme with him.

KPM
02-07-2009, 02:12 PM
I would say this that the Mersey sound of the Beatles and others was much like early rock-there was not any one true great influence on the sound-it was melding of rock, doo wop, blues, pop and the sounds of Liverpool.
The Beatles with the help of George Martin their legendary producer found their own sound and style. But to say that Holly was any more influence than Elvis (with the harmonies of the Jordanaires behind him) or the Everly Brothers great harmonies, or Little Richard/Chuck Berry driving sound, or Londons skiffle music would IMO be incorrect-they all influenced the sound that became the British invasion.

Brian
02-07-2009, 04:34 PM
I would say this that the Mersey sound of the Beatles and others was much like early rock-there was not any one true great influence on the sound-it was melding of rock, doo wop, blues, pop and the sounds of Liverpool.
The Beatles with the help of George Martin their legendary producer found their own sound and style. But to say that Holly was any more influence than Elvis (with the harmonies of the Jordanaires behind him) or the Everly Brothers great harmonies, or Little Richard/Chuck Berry driving sound, or Londons skiffle music would IMO be incorrect-they all influenced the sound that became the British invasion.

not discounting those other influences but I would say Buddy Holly and the Everly Brothers were the two biggest influences on the early Beatles and the whole British invasion.

The Beatles were inspired by Elvis because he was very popular with girls and they wanted to have that popularity but I don't think he was a big influence on them musically.

While Buddy Holly was as I hear his music in them and not just their sound but the suits they wore were very similar to Holly along with naming their band after an insect.

So yes I would say Holly influenced the Beatles more than Elvis.

Diane
02-07-2009, 05:01 PM
:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'

KPM
02-07-2009, 07:36 PM
not discounting those other influences but I would say Buddy Holly and the Everly Brothers were the two biggest influences on the early Beatles and the whole British invasion.

The Beatles were inspired by Elvis because he was very popular with girls and they wanted to have that popularity but I don't think he was a big influence on them musically.

While Buddy Holly was as I hear his music in them and not just their sound but the suits they wore were very similar to Holly along with naming their band after an insect.

So yes I would say Holly influenced the Beatles more than Elvis.
That is the operative phrase-as "YOU" hear his music in them.
The suits were not their idea-that was Brian Epsteins idea along with the different hair styles. They wore leather and jeans before Epstein with Elvis's type hair. They did many Elvis covers.
They were a much rougher sounding and looking group. So the group did not decide to wear suits and look like Holly- that was Epsteins notion-which they were really not comfortable with especially John. The Beatles did not try to become another Crickets-they were originals like Elvis-their sound is their sound. Depending on the songs you listen to by the Beatles and at which stage of their career you listen to you can hear any number of influences as I pointed out. But there is no overriding influence IMO which is pinpointable-because the Beatles sound is unique to them. That is why they became the next big thing in rock music.
I might add that the influences on the Beatles in their music IMO-diminished greatly as the sound that they and George Martin developed became their own sound.

Brian
02-07-2009, 07:47 PM
That is the operative phrase-as "YOU" hear his music in them.
The suits were not their idea-that was Brian Epsteins idea along with the different hair styles. They wore leather and jeans before Epstein with Elvis's type hair. They did many Elvis covers.
They were a much rougher sounding and looking group. So the group did not decide to wear suits and look like Holly- that was Epsteins notion-which they were really not comfortable with especially John.

They still wore the suits though

no matter if it was Epstein idea they still dressed like Holly

Without Buddy Holly and the Everly brothers there wouldn't be any Beatles

Buddy Holly Rules!!!

KPM
02-07-2009, 08:34 PM
They still wore the suits though

no matter if it was Epstein idea they still dressed like Holly

Without Buddy Holly and the Everly brothers there wouldn't be any Beatles

Buddy Holly Rules!!!
:lol::lol::lol::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:
You're funny.

LtCarman
02-07-2009, 08:42 PM
:lol::lol::lol::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:
You're funny.

Yeah, he is.

I wonder if it is one of his "jokes."

Brian
02-07-2009, 10:12 PM
Yeah, he is.

I wonder if it is one of his "jokes."


watch it Carman

it's true without Buddy Holly the Beatles music would sound exactly like George Jones singing with a British accent

kathy parkinson
02-07-2009, 11:28 PM
:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'

(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

utmom2008
02-07-2009, 11:28 PM
Yeah, he is.

I wonder if it is one of his "jokes."

His "jokes" are tiring. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

utmom2008
02-07-2009, 11:32 PM
They still wore the suits though

no matter if it was Epstein idea they still dressed like Holly

Without Buddy Holly and the Everly brothers there wouldn't be any Beatles

Buddy Holly Rules!!!

OK...whatever you say.

30189

LtCarman
02-07-2009, 11:45 PM
OK...whatever you say.

30189

:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

Brian
02-08-2009, 12:06 AM
I'm not joking I am as serious as a brain tumor

Joe Car
02-08-2009, 06:35 AM
Do I have to go through the countless of people that Elvis influenced, the biggest names in rock history, for the most part, all started because of one man, Elvis Presley! Buddy Holly was a very good artist, but he wasn't the first punk rocker as Elvis was, nor did he change the world. That being said, he did influence his share of artists, but certainly not more than Elvis, not even close!

midnight
02-08-2009, 07:02 AM
I'm not joking I am as serious as a brain tumor

(n)(n)(n)(n)

ehollier
02-08-2009, 07:57 AM
I'm not joking I am as serious as a brain tumor

Well, that would certainly explain quite a bit..........:lol:

ehollier
02-08-2009, 07:58 AM
They still wore the suits though

no matter if it was Epstein idea they still dressed like Holly

Without Buddy Holly and the Everly brothers there wouldn't be any Beatles

Buddy Holly Rules!!!

Thank you for sharing your OPINION. I do not agree with you, but thanks for sharing. Next.

ehollier
02-08-2009, 08:02 AM
Yeah, he is.

I wonder if it is one of his "jokes."


Sure it is. Remember when he states something on the MB and everyone goes bonkers, he just 'runs with it'. He did the same thing last week, too, so I think its safe to say we can put this in the joke pile along with the last one. I believe it was the "Kentucky Rain" riot argument, right? Yep, that one and this Buddy Holly business is definitely another ill-timed attempt at humor, Lt. Carmen.

ehollier
02-08-2009, 08:03 AM
They still wore the suits though

no matter if it was Epstein idea they still dressed like Holly

Without Buddy Holly and the Everly brothers there wouldn't be any Beatles

Buddy Holly Rules!!!

Brian, remember we must be careful of what we say. Before long, no one around is going to take you seriously.

Diane
02-08-2009, 09:17 AM
Brian, remember we must be careful of what we say. Before long, no one around is going to take you seriously.

And we do now????;)

Diane

Sonny
02-08-2009, 09:23 AM
Back on topic....

KPM
02-08-2009, 10:06 AM
watch it Carman

it's true without Buddy Holly the Beatles music would sound exactly like George Jones singing with a British accent
And without Elvis (who Holly acknowledged changed his country musical direction)Buddy Holly would have sounded like George Jones singing with a Texas accent.
I tried to find you some Buddy Holly forums Brian but there do not seem to be many on the internet-but Topix has a list of Holly subjects to discuss.
http://www.topix.com/who/buddy-holly
I did not look long but I'm sure if you look you can find some since he rules in your opinion.(y)

KPM
02-08-2009, 10:09 AM
I'm not joking I am as serious as a brain tumor
:lmfao::doh::lmfao::doh::doh::doh:
What strange paths we take!:doh:

utmom2008
02-08-2009, 11:07 AM
I'm not joking I am as serious as a brain tumor


Well, that would certainly explain quite a bit..........:lol:


:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Sonny
02-08-2009, 11:16 AM
Sorry, but I will close this.

It went nowhere, and goes nowhere...