Is the army at fault? [Archive]

Diane

08-26-2008, 06:24 AM

I've often wondered if Elvis hadn't been given uppers in the army to keep from falling asleep would he have still found his way into taking prescription drugs?

It seems to me that the action of giving him those pills started him on a downslide in his life that ultimately caused him to die young. I know we can't really fault the army for his addictive personality but what if drugs hadn't been dispensed so easily in those days?

Diane

ehollier

08-26-2008, 06:29 AM

The King's Queen

08-26-2008, 06:36 AM

Good question Diane...(y)

Most likely, Elvis would have found his way into the prescription drug usage anyway, but I do often think that him being introduced to them so early on did have an effect. Elvis seemed to have an addictive personality...which made it very hard for him to stop using them once he started. And too, although he made the choice to use them, I have to argue that once hooked, the person loses sight of the fact that they actually have a problem. Most of the time, they will swear that they can quit whenever they want...but they just don't want to quit. This is not always true, as we all know. But it is a vicious cycle that usually does not have a happy ending.

shelley.m.

08-26-2008, 06:36 AM

No, I do not blame the army for his drug addiction. It's all about choices and he made the choice to continue taking these uppers when he was discharged. Also, I think his financia status and popularity made it very easy for him to obtain these drugs while in the army and after he was discharged.

How very true!!!

presley31

08-26-2008, 06:49 AM

I don't blame the army cause elvis could of stopped, but he didn't.

ehollier

08-26-2008, 06:50 AM

I don't blame the army cause elvis could of stopped, but he didn't.

In fact, it is reported that he did stop taking drugs, at least on a few occasions, after he was discharged.

presley31

08-26-2008, 06:55 AM

In fact, it is reported that he did stop taking drugs, at least on a few occasions, after he was discharged.

maybe he did but if you want to believe what in revevations book says elvis was already getting into the pills before the army.

Diane

08-26-2008, 07:09 AM

Ok, Elvis was responsible for keeping up with the uppers and then other drugs after he got out of the army but it also makes me wonder how many other young men got caught in the same trap that we never hear about because they weren't famous.

I do believe in unablers though and he had plenty around to help him get into other pills later on that led to his downfall.

Pharmaceutical companies are as bad to me as EPE....it's all for the $$$$$ and unfortunately, too many doctors are in on it and always have been. It's one of my pet peeves of our society.

Diane

presley31

08-26-2008, 07:18 AM

I think if elvis didn't like what they did to him than maybe he wouldn't of got hooked, but thats another story which l have no idea if thats true or not.

Diane

08-26-2008, 07:49 AM

If Elvis didn't like what the pills did to him he wouldn't have kept on with them. The trouble is with addicts, they DO like it and that's why they don't quit before it's too late.

Diane

presley31

08-26-2008, 07:54 AM

Somtimes l wonder how different things would of turned out if elvis got off the pills and was pill free though his life?? Would he able to get up with the touring and the pressures that came with being elvis presley?

Diane

08-26-2008, 08:02 AM

I honestly don't know Jen. I would hope he could have but done less of it and taken more vacations in Hawaii or whatever. He was so tired of it all by then though...I don't know.

Diane

nyc

08-26-2008, 08:23 AM

maybe he did but if you want to believe what in revevations book says elvis was already getting into the pills before the army.

Do you remember if Billy agreed with this, or if it was Lamar's claim alone? Because Marty, at least when he was posting on AEK, seemed to go along with the generally accepted view that Elvis' drug problem started in the Army.

presley31

08-26-2008, 08:27 AM

Do you remember if Billy agreed with this, or if it was Lamar's claim alone? Because Marty, at least when he was posting on AEK, seemed to go along with the generally accepted view that Elvis' drug problem started in the Army.

I can't really remember NYC, but l don't have alot of faith in what lamer says, maybe if someone has that book on hand can post what billy smith says about that?

Diane

08-26-2008, 08:29 AM

Unique Dog

08-26-2008, 08:31 AM

No, it was his choice to make.

ehollier

08-26-2008, 08:54 AM

I question that too. The only place I've ever read anything about this was on a post here when it was said that Elvis was filching his mother's diet pills but that doesn't make sense as Elvis did not have a weight problem at the time and I'm not familiar with those pills but I can't see that he would have gotten a high on them or any other reason for him wanting to take them.

Diane

I would surmise that if he was taking his mother's diet pills, it wasn't for his weight, but rather for the energy since he was touring and making movies and I would imagine that he needed the extra energy.

Sonny

08-26-2008, 08:55 AM

Those pills to stay awake on cold nights certainly were not provided by the US Army.

My bet is the guys in the army (Elvis' mates at the time) shared those pills amongst each other.

I spent some cold winter in the army in Germany, and no army will provide you with stuff like that!

Usually you try to stay warm inside your Jeep or Landrover.Of course you are not allowed to leave the engine running to keep the heater going, but we did just that some nights!!
Until officers would come by and tell you to shut it down. After they left engines back on! :D

presley31

08-26-2008, 08:57 AM

see two different things once again from lamer, this says elvis stated pills in the army and lamer said different so l will go with careless love

It's early on in Germany that Elvis is introduced to amphetamines by a sergeant who recommends speed as a way to stay alert on late-night maneuvers. Elvis innocently begins to believe the uppers will allow him to continue his own late-night maneuvers while meeting his usual daytime obligations to the Army tank corps.

source:http://www.providencephoenix.com/archive/books/99/01/07/ELVIS.html

Tony Trout

08-26-2008, 09:16 AM

maybe he did but if you want to believe what in revevations book says elvis was already getting into the pills before the army.

it's been said in other books (IIRC) that he did get into the uppers during the early touring days in the 1950s.

nyc

08-26-2008, 09:20 AM

it's been said in other books (IIRC) that he did get into the uppers during the early touring days in the 1950s.

I think that claim comes from Knox Phillips (son of Sam), allegedly through Dewey Phillips.

And given that Sam was less than reliable in his own accounts of Elvis' career (cutting Marion Keisker out of the story), I'm not sure I buy it.

For what it's worth, Scotty Moore, not one to whitewash Elvis, denies that Elvis was on anything in his Sun days. And Johnny Cash in his autobiography disputed that claim, too.

But thanks to Walk the Line, you actually hear this as gospel truth from some people now.

presley31

08-26-2008, 09:25 AM

it's been said in other books (IIRC) that he did get into the uppers during the early touring days in the 1950s.

thank you Tony. now l don't feel like l was speading a lie, but just going by what l have read.

nyc

08-26-2008, 09:27 AM

thank you Tony. now l don't feel like l was speading a lie, but just going by what l have read.

I never thought you were spreading a lie. I know Lamar claims Elvis started on drugs before the Army.

I just wanted to know if there was any reliable backup for that, like from Billy Smith.

Because otherwise, I'll go with Peter Guralnick on this, who had these conflicting claims and yet decided that the Army story was most likely the true one.

presley31

08-26-2008, 09:30 AM

I never thought you were spreading a lie. I know Lamar claims Elvis started on drugs before the Army.

I just wanted to know if there was any reliable backup for that, like from Billy Smith.

Because otherwise, I'll go with Peter Guralnick on this, who had these conflicting claims and yet decided that the Army story was most likely the true one.

thank you. I would never say something that hasn't been considered a source, but l never take what lamer says as gospal and yes l would go with you on Guralnick book.

Diane

08-26-2008, 10:08 AM

I would tend to go along with what Scotty had to say rather than Lamar especially since Scotty was there with Elvis in those early touring years and Lamar was not. Also I believe in Scotty's honesty over Lamar's.

Could be you are right about the pills being distributed only among the soldiers Rene, or could be the american army did give out pills....or again maybe it was just his sergeant. Too bad Charlie wasn't here to ask as he was there with him.

Diane

Sonny

08-26-2008, 11:31 AM

Usually officers, or Sergeants, do not give those pills. Or any pills for that matter.

But true, maybe some fool who wasn't afraid of losing his strips didn't care. Everything is possible.

presley31

08-26-2008, 12:11 PM

Usually officers, or Sergeants, do not give those pills. Or any pills for that matter.

But true, maybe some fool who wasn't afraid of losing his strips didn't care. Everything is possible.

thanks sonny
I really didn't think they could hand out pills like without getting into some trouble.

Donut

08-26-2008, 12:38 PM

I don't know what to say about this. Maybe he discovered them in the army but I think he liked how they made him feel and decided to use them for many different occasions like going with the guys to Vegas and staying up all night or taking them to get the energy to made all those silly movies he didn't seem able to get away from. In my opinion he knew they weren't good for him, he had to take sleeping pills in order to wear the high they give him off and get to sleep and saw how some of those around him got a scare from time to time for taking them too but I guess is one of those things you think will never happen to you and there were too many willing to give him what he wanted. A difficult situation...

SatninLove

08-26-2008, 12:44 PM

I don't know...I kinda think sooner or later,given his lifestyle,and his position,he would have started taking them......
-SatninLove

LianaKaralivanou

08-26-2008, 01:13 PM

I can't blame anybody except Elvis himself. I'm sorry to say that but noone puts a gun on anyone's head to make him/her take pills. If he didn't want to take them he wouldn't have. Simply as that. As ehollier said it's all about choices...

Donut

08-26-2008, 01:20 PM

But thanks to Walk the Line, you actually hear this as gospel truth from some people now.

Right, I started a thread about that time ago because I have read Cash's autobiography and he says he never saw Elvis take pills during the time he was around him but watching the movie gives you the impression it was Cash's thing to portray Elvis that way.

nyc

08-26-2008, 01:50 PM

Right, I started a thread about that time ago because I have read Cash's autobiography and he says he never saw Elvis take pills during the time he was around him but watching the movie gives you the impression it was Cash's thing to portray Elvis that way.

Walk the Line is one of my pet peeves, LOL.

It's pure and absolute fiction. About the only true thing in it is that June Carter married Johnny Cash.

Elvis takes enough heat for things he actually did. Getting Johnny Cash hooked on drugs wasn't one of them.

Unchained Melody

08-26-2008, 02:06 PM

Answer - no its obviously not the armys fault a-tall.

Elvis got ahold of these and most likely thought hey this is great help me stay awake make you feel good, I'm sure he like others around him thought they were completley harmless.

Diane

08-26-2008, 02:47 PM

Yup I agree with you Brad unfortunately that's how all addictions start.

Diane

MojoElvis

08-26-2008, 03:06 PM

it's been said in other books (IIRC) that he did get into the uppers during the early touring days in the 1950s.

I have to agree with this because, I hate to say this but it's true, Music & Drugs go hand & hand most of the time. I strongly feel that the pill taken started in the 50's and from what I've read from Billy Smith, "Elvis would get into his mother's diet pills" and they would pep him up to keep up with the tour dates and other responsibilities he had to his career. This is not even mentioning what probably went on at after show parties. That must have been a big free for all. Have you guys ever noticed in that home movie they show in, "This Is Elvis". It looks like it might be 1956 or 57, He's at some kinda party and this freaky dude with a monkey mask is walking around. Elvis looks like he's passing a joint..Check it out and let me know what you think.

utmom2008

08-26-2008, 04:46 PM

4THEHEART

08-26-2008, 05:05 PM

whatever you think about Elvis,army still use soldiers as guinea pigs, at war or peace and always will, since soldiers have no choice in(any)army..
besides, for some dark age minds it was a good opportunity to take him out of sight for two years,hoping people forget him and save their spirits and be good citizens again..

Wendy56

08-26-2008, 08:05 PM

I think the Army shouldn't give these pills to soldiers... No need to do that. :hmm:

Sonny

08-27-2008, 09:00 AM

Trust me, any soldier has a choice, always!

(referring to this topic of course!)

Diane

08-27-2008, 09:28 AM

True Rene and I agree but on the other hand here you have Elvis who is fairly naive and believes that prescription drugs aren't harmful. He kept that in his head until it was too late.

I questioned my husband about the service giving out drugs as he was in the air force and he agreed that no they don't but that a few officers did take the liberty of giving some to their soldiers.

Diane

4THEHEART

08-27-2008, 10:01 AM

Trust me, any soldier has a choice, always!

(referring to this topic of course!)
oh sure! only in a dreamland army of course..

Brian

08-27-2008, 11:31 AM

Walk the Line is one of my pet peeves, LOL.

It's pure and absolute fiction. About the only true thing in it is that June Carter married Johnny Cash.

Elvis takes enough heat for things he actually did. Getting Johnny Cash hooked on drugs wasn't one of them.

hi nyc

I find myself agreeing with you a lot. Johnny Cash said in interviews and in his book that Elvis wasn't on drugs at that time and the movie depicts Elvis as talking drugs and introducing him to those drugs. Even if Elvis did introduce Cash to uppers it would have been up to him whether to take them or not.

I was disappointed in I Walk the Line for one thing it's not really about Cash's life and career it's about his relationship with June and the only two actors that get any lines are Phoenix and Reese Witherspoon with everybody else in the background I don't think Cash's band members got any lines at all.
I found the movie to be inaccurate as it had Waylon Jennings touring with Cash and Elvis in the 50's. I saw Ray and I felt I Walk the Line had the exact same script just insert Johnny Cash instead of Ray Charles and that's the movie. I felt I Walk the Line was okay but overrated as I felt Ray was a lot better. I had heard that a biopic about Carl Perkins is in production and is scheduled for release in 2009 I hope it's more accurate than I Walk the Line

P.S.It's ironic but I don't think Carl Perkins was depicted at all in the film.

nyc

08-27-2008, 12:07 PM

hi nyc

I find myself agreeing with you a lot. Johnny Cash said in interviews and in his book that Elvis wasn't on drugs at that time and the movie depicts Elvis as talking drugs and introducing him to those drugs. Even if Elvis did introduce Cash to uppers it would have been up to him whether to take them or not.

I was disappointed in I Walk the Line for one thing it's not really about Cash's life and career it's about his relationship with June and the only two actors that get any lines are Phoenix and Reese Witherspoon with everybody else in the background I don't think Cash's band members got any lines at all.
I found the movie to be inaccurate as it had Waylon Jennings touring with Cash and Elvis in the 50's. I saw Ray and I felt I Walk the Line had the exact same script just insert Johnny Cash instead of Ray Charles and that's the movie. I felt I Walk the Line was okay but overrated as I felt Ray was a lot better. I had heard that a biopic about Carl Perkins is in production and is scheduled for release in 2009 I hope it's more accurate than I Walk the Line

P.S.It's ironic but I don't think Carl Perkins was depicted at all in the film.

Wasn't Perkins part of that fictional "Sun artists" tour in the movie? Which had Elvis, Johnny Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis and I think Roy Orbison on the same bill?

Obviously, he didn't stand out to me either, if he even was there. And given how close Cash and Perkins were, that shows part of the problem with WTL.

I wonder if there's a real audience for a film about Carl Perkins.

But I'm cringing just thinking about it, because I know they'll have Elvis stealing Perkins' glory by singing Blue Suede Shoes on TV while Perkins was in the hospital after his car accident.

Kentucky Rain

08-27-2008, 07:37 PM

In regards to the military (states) and handing out drugs/situations..or rather not being upfront with their soldiers.

Two examples..first being my father..long ago when they (military) tested "mustard gas"..my father chose to participate..unknowing (not told) of its devasting power of destruction to a human body...eventually caused him to pass away when he was 69..residuals ...kidney damage. Which eventually the military admitted to. My father was a military "lifer" and very much believed the military could do him no wrong..to his dying day he thought that.

Second example..a nephew..gulf war..he and fellow soldiers were given a type of "spray" to increase alertness..keep them awake/up. No choice given..the spray was "misted" over them. He still suffers from this "medication"..yearly or less trips to the military drs..mysterious goings on still happen within his body.

On topic..Elvis..drugs/army..I do not doubt in my mind the military gave these uppers to the troops..and they knew what those drugs did. Uppers are age old drugs.

In summary and in agreement with 4theheart...the troops do not have a choice and they are not told of the consequences.

Brian

08-28-2008, 07:51 AM

Wasn't Perkins part of that fictional "Sun artists" tour in the movie? Which had Elvis, Johnny Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis and I think Roy Orbison on the same bill?

Brian's answer: No I don't think so and the guy playing Roy Orbison looked like Buddy Holly, the guy playing Jerry Lee Lewis was a dead ringer for James Dean

But I'm cringing just thinking about it, because I know they'll have Elvis stealing Perkins' glory by .

Probably but Carl's version went to #2 on the pop charts while Elvis version only hit #20. I have read that RCA wanted to release Elvis version as a single to compete with Carl's but Elvis refused saying to release it in Europe and Canada but not here in the states. Elvis version went to number 9 in the U.K.
I believe RCA finally did release it as a title track to an E.P. and then Elvis gave Carl the money from the sales of that E.P. to help pay his hospital bills.

beckelvis

08-28-2008, 10:41 AM

I Belive That The Exercise Was Not What They Gave Him Wing Drug Addiction,that Sooner Or Later Would Have Used Those, Who Had A Lot Of Preassure With The Concerts,and Besides The Came Her Mother And Separation,i Think It Was Unable To Face The Problems.

renapap05

12-12-2008, 07:59 AM

WHITETIGERMAN

12-12-2008, 08:06 AM

No, I do not blame the army for his drug addiction. It's all about choices and he made the choice to continue taking these uppers when he was discharged. Also, I think his financial status and popularity made it very easy for him to obtain these drugs while in the army and after he was discharged.

Good question Diane...(y)

Most likely, Elvis would have found his way into the prescription drug usage anyway, but I do often think that him being introduced to them so early on did have an effect. Elvis seemed to have an addictive personality...which made it very hard for him to stop using them once he started. And too, although he made the choice to use them, I have to argue that once hooked, the person loses sight of the fact that they actually have a problem. Most of the time, they will swear that they can quit whenever they want...but they just don't want to quit. This is not always true, as we all know. But it is a vicious cycle that usually does not have a happy ending.

I agree with you both on that......I do believe he had an addictive personality.
I remember Linda Thompson speaking about this in a documentary also stating this on certain foods as well.But I think we all have addictions to something.........reguardless of what it is.

KPM

12-12-2008, 02:57 PM

Its funny people in positions of authority are charged every day for using those positions in the wrong manner or in a harmful way toward people they interact with. The reason they are held to a high standard is because we see them as authority figures who are suppose to help. Huge trust is placed in their hands by people below them.
People who are in such positions-Doctors, Clergymen, politicians, policemen, Platoon leaders,etc.....are such people- we trust them and they have a "personal responsiblility" to not give us bad advice or to do anything which may lead to harm.
I do not think the Army is to blame for giving uppers to Elvis-but if this were brought to light today (in todays world)-someone would most probably be investigated and charged in a similar situation.
In Elvis's case, the sleep problem would have led to a doctor somewhere down the road prescribing uppers to help Elvis wake up in the mornings-even if he had not been given them in the Army.
The reverse happened to Judy Garland-she was given the uppers at MGM to help with her weight problem, which led to the downers at night to help her sleep and the cycle was started. Funny but after MGM no longer needed Garland-there were no follow-ups by the MGM doctors to make sure she broke that cycle.:blush:
IMO Elvis was a man who needed guidance in many ways (who doesn't in life)-and I do not think he got much truthful guidance from many.
He was a star and the glare of that star blinded many who could have given better guidance-especially authority figures who Elvis may have had respect for. Most do not follow advice from people they do not fully respect-common nature.

Diane

12-12-2008, 07:11 PM

I totally agree.(y)(y)(y)

Diane

epmoodyblue

12-12-2008, 07:26 PM

no its not the armys fault...and we will leave it at that..what happened had to happen in his life..i believe in destiny

dstrattenfan

12-13-2008, 12:33 AM

Speaking as a recovering alcoholic I can tell u it is no ones fault but the addict!

My brother who was 15 years older than me first introduced me to pills when I was 13 or 14, first it was pain pills then it was nerve pills, then alcohol. I never smoked pot until I was 16 or 17 but I remember getting drunk at 13..

Do I blame him no! I knew that what I was doing was wrong! It was my choice to continue to drink and use drugs. My brother never forced me to take or drink anything, that was my choice..

There is a time when one has to take responsibility for ones own actions... No doubt it was wrong but I knew better just like Elvis did...He knew good and well that what he was doing was wrong thats why it was such a guarded secret. And that is not the army's fault