Obstacles

[Unchained Melody]

Did Elvis simply have to much going against him in the end to have pulled it off okay and stayed alive. He was hooked on the drugs, which he didn't believe, the book was written two weeks before he died, he was overweight horribly...it almost seems impossible the situation he was in.:'(

[ehollier]

Its been said time and time again here and in the many biographies written about his life....Elvis was a victim of HIS own making.

He enjoyed being Elvis Presley and wouldn't have given it up for any amount of money in the world.

[KPM]

Its been said time and time again here and in the many biographies written about his life....Elvis was a victim of HIS own making.

He enjoyed being Elvis Presley and wouldn't have given it up for any amount of money in the world.
Elvis was the victim of the life he lived- but he had absolutly no control over his heredity, birth, childhood, who his parents were- nor the side of the tracks he was born on. Whether we realize it or not these things are the major shapers of the person we all become-and we have no say so in what those variables are. You are born into the situations you are and by the time you are into your teens-your brain has developed the pattern it uses to think and make decisions. So every person is greatly affected by things they have no control over. When I look at someone elses life-I try to always remember I have no idea where they have been, what they have seen, how they were raised etc.....just as they can not look at me and know any of those things. Life would be cut and dry if we all had grown up exactly the same-but we do not.

[ehollier]

Elvis was the victim of the life he lived- but he had absolutly no control over his heredity, birth, childhood, who his parents were- nor the side of the tracks he was born on. Whether we realize it or not these things are the major shapers of the person we all become-and we have no say so in what those variables are. You are born into the situations you are and by the time you are into your teens-your brain has developed the pattern it uses to think and make decisions. So every person is greatly affected by things they have no control over. When I look at someone elses life-I try to always remember I have no idea where they have been, what they have seen, how they were raised etc.....just as they can not look at me and know any of those things. Life would be cut and dry if we all had grown up exactly the same-but we do not.

You are so correct. You cannot control certain things that can shape your future. However, I think that some of the things that brought both Gladys and Elvis to an early death could have been helped had they been better able to deal with those problems - i.e. drugs, poor diet, etc. My best friend is a counselor and she has said time and time again that although your past does play a part in who you are, one cannot spend a lifetime blaming parents, past friends, etc. on who you are today b/c we, as individuals are the only ones who can change ourselves.

I think Elvis was the only one who could make that decision to change and we can see that there wasn't one person in his life important enough to him that he felt inclined to quit taking drugs and changing his lifestyle. No one around him could persuade him of changing - not family, MM, his manager.

[Unchained Melody]

He enjoyed being Elvis Presley and wouldn't have given it up for any amount of money in the world.

Actually the last few years, he hated being Elvis Presley imo.

[ehollier]

Actually the last few years, he hated being Elvis Presley imo.

Maybe there were times when he hated it or saw it as a mere inconvience, but it didn't bother him enough that it would encouraged him to clean up his act.

But I believe that it wasn't so much being "Elvis Presley" was what he hated, it was how to deal with getting older (I think this played a big factor in his last years!) and (maybe) the MM changing and growing up and leaving.

[KPM]

You are so correct. You cannot control certain things that can shape your future. However, I think that some of the things that brought both Gladys and Elvis to an early death could have been helped had they been better able to deal with those problems - i.e. drugs, poor diet, etc. My best friend is a counselor and she has said time and time again that although your past does play a part in who you are, one cannot spend a lifetime blaming parents, past friends, etc. on who you are today b/c we, as individuals are the only ones who can change ourselves.

I think Elvis was the only one who could make that decision to change and we can see that there wasn't one person in his life important enough to him that he felt inclined to quit taking drugs and changing his lifestyle. No one around him could persuade him of changing - not family, MM, his manager.
I am not speaking of blaming anyone-I have had therapy and half of what made me choose the wrong things, make the wrong decisions -I did not even know was there. That is what I am speaking of-you react in certain ways based on things which shaped you in the past-but you are not aware of how they affected you as an adult. If you are lucky enough to have not had problems such as this, I know its very hard to understand what I am getting at.
People who love me-practically had to hog tie me to force me to get help-over 25 years ago. The knot inside of me was tangled and its not easy finding the ends of that rope.
I could have not done it alone-but make no mistake I was forced. I am here today because of that. But even discovering what caused you to be who you are does not magically change your life-it still haunts you. It can still creeps up and scares you-reminds you. This is something I have dealt with a lifetime-no easy answers.
But that is why I try to remember-I don't know the road others have walked.

[Diane]

Ken, once again....(y)(y)(y).

Diane

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

By 1977 the rot had truly set in, Elvis was set in his ways. Elvis had cleaned himself up on numerous occasions but simply couldn't break the cycle. This is not to say that he hadn't tried.

I don't blame Elvis in the conventional sense, yes he was a grown man and had power over his own actions but the drug taking had been habitual for many years. Elvis had surrounded himself predominantly by yes men and sycophants who essentially were ill equipped to deal with Elvis' demons in a meaningful way.

Being Elvis Presley couldn't have been easy. I'm sure that taking pills in the early days seemed like the solution. Later on they were just to big a part in his life and the damage was irreparable by 1977 IMO. I truly believe had Elvis realised his fate by 1975 he could have extended his life.

[Diane]

I agree Matt. Although a bit overweight in 1975, he still looked healthy and happy. Maybe he thought then that things weren't all that bad and then the bottom dropped out the next year and he totally lost control and no one knew really how to help.

Diane

[Unchained Melody]

Had he had someone with him @ the end of '76 early Jan 1977 he still could have changed his fate I believe...

[TotallyInsane]

Had he had someone with him @ the end of '76 early Jan 1977 he still could have changed his fate I believe...

Someone like me, right???? :lmfao::lmfao:

[TotallyInsane]

Maybe there were times when he hated it or saw it as a mere inconvience, but it didn't bother him enough that it would encouraged him to clean up his act.

But I believe that it wasn't so much being "Elvis Presley" was what he hated, it was how to deal with getting older (I think this played a big factor in his last years!) and (maybe) the MM changing and growing up and leaving.

They were not growing up and leaving - they were getting lazier and getting fired!!

[utmom2008]

My best friend is a counselor and she has said time and time again that although your past does play a part in who you are, one cannot spend a lifetime blaming parents, past friends, etc. on who you are today b/c we, as individuals are the only ones who can change ourselves.

Do you get a discount?:P:P :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[utmom2008]

I am not speaking of blaming anyone-I have had therapy and half of what made me choose the wrong things, make the wrong decisions -I did not even know was there. That is what I am speaking of-you react in certain ways based on things which shaped you in the past-but you are not aware of how they affected you as an adult. If you are lucky enough to have not had problems such as this, I know its very hard to understand what I am getting at.
People who love me-practically had to hog tie me to force me to get help-over 25 years ago. The knot inside of me was tangled and its not easy finding the ends of that rope.
I could have not done it alone-but make no mistake I was forced. I am here today because of that. But even discovering what caused you to be who you are does not magically change your life-it still haunts you. It can still creeps up and scares you-reminds you. This is something I have dealt with a lifetime-no easy answers.
But that is why I try to remember-I don't know the road others have walked.

Great post as always Ken.:blush:(y)

[ElvisPresleyUK]

I think Elvis was the only one who could make that decision to change and we can see that there wasn't one person in his life important enough to him that he felt inclined to quit taking drugs and changing his lifestyle

I don't know if that is really true....i don't think that Elvis knew how far in he was before it was too late to turn around. Elvis did try a few times to quit but he just couldn't. And to say that he had no one important enough to make him want to quit is like saying that Lisa, his daughter, his special little daughter, wasn't important...and i doubt, knowing how much he loved and doted on her that he would not want to quit for her. He was just in too deep before he realised.

[ehollier]

Do you get a discount?:P:P :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

Nah, we just engage in girl talk. She's a big Elvis fan too!!!! But thanks for asking!!!!!:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(

[utmom2008]

Nah, we just engage in girl talk. She's a big Elvis fan too!!!! But thanks for asking!!!!!:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(

Sometimes "girl talk" is the best counseling of all!(y)(y)(y)

[Unchained Melody]

What did you all think when David Stanley went on air on that live talk show with his elvis committed suicide theory. I for one was pissed off that dude is so stupid he clearly didn't have his story straight and it cracked me up that doctor and Diamond Joe were burning him up lol.

[ehollier]

Sometimes "girl talk" is the best counseling of all!(y)(y)(y)

Oh yes, it is!!! Sort of like this, except we actually can see each other....

[Diane]

David Stanley will do and say anything to get attention. His jealousy of Elvis has been very evident.

Diane

[Donut]

My best friend is a counselor and she has said time and time again that although your past does play a part in who you are, one cannot spend a lifetime blaming parents, past friends, etc. on who you are today b/c we, as individuals are the only ones who can change ourselves.
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I´m of the same opinion and I believe you can change many things of your character and habits, not an easy task but completely possible. Thinking that your way in life and your failures were imposed to you is just a waste of time and an useless obstacle to achive more happiness and well being.
I´m not talking about genetic illnesses here but even though you can carry them that way you don´t have to live them the same way you predecessors did.

[Getlo]

I´m of the same opinion and I believe you can change many things of your character and habits, not an easy task but completely possible. ... I´m not talking about genetic illnesses here but even though you can carry them that way you don´t have to live them the same way you predecessors did.

Well said.

Life is all about choices. Elvis chose his path, for whatever reasons.

You're right. It is possible to change one's character and habits.

"Wrong side of the tracks" ... ? Big deal.

[Broussey]

What did you all think when David Stanley went on air on that live talk show with his elvis committed suicide theory. I for one was pissed off that dude is so stupid he clearly didn't have his story straight and it cracked me up that doctor and Diamond Joe were burning him up lol.


The hole Stanley family can go to hell :angry:... I truly believe that Elvis was to religious to do something like that i would not believe it for one second....
I wish i herd that interview that would have been funny to her Joe and the Dr( was it Dr nick?) burn him lol:lol:

[KPM]

I´m of the same opinion and I believe you can change many things of your character and habits, not an easy task but completely possible. Thinking that your way in life and your failures were imposed to you is just a waste of time and an useless obstacle to achive more happiness and well being.
I´m not talking about genetic illnesses here but even though you can carry them that way you don´t have to live them the same way you predecessors did.
I am talking about "mental thinking patterns" which develope in every single human being in early childhood. Your conscious mind and inner mind are shaped during this time. In essense the choices you make-how you react, how you perceive what is good and bad they all have their roots in a time you have no control over. I disagree that thinking on your failures and your past is a waste of time (so did my shrink)
The first step is you (or in many case like mine someone else) deciding this guy needs help. They had seen I was self destructive and seemed to always make the wrong choices. I was a worrier 24/7, had terrible trouble sleeping, felt that the sky was falling every single day. I had phobias of all kinds and did not trust many people. Suicidal thoughts were a normal thing-I figured it was hereditary and eventually it would happen.
I relaxed only when using stimulants of one kind or another alcohol and later Xanax which was prescribed, then Valium and a few anti depressants and the mixing of all these. They masked the problems-but did not fix them-and yes I thought well these help me so how can that be bad. (of course the doctor who gave them to me never knew I mixed them. All I knew is it was my only relief from a world of worry) I held a job, interacted with others and went to church. I was ashamed of myself and did not know why.
Now here is my point-I did not know what caused this way of thinking its the way I always thought- it just happened.
How do you overcome a problem you do not recognize? The problems were rooted in the childhood I experienced-which shaped my brain. They were deeply rooted and hidden-I had no clue. My shrink told me talking and exploring your past is the way to discover what brought me to that point. Many of you do not believe in shrinks, nor hidden inner problems, but I can tell you from my experience they are real. If you have not been through such things-I am 100% bottom of my heart-happy for you. I would not wish it on my worst enemy. I will agree you can overcome the worst-but someone has to recognize that it is not a normal way of thinking and reacting to do so.


The heredity thing is another side of the coin-you get what you get mentally and physically. Many illnesses have been absolutely proven as hereditary-more are given good bets as to genetic origin and each year more are proven to be. Once again some just do not accept this idea either, part of my depression problems are because of hormone deficiencies in the brain-which my doctor says (considering all the suicides in my family in the last 90 years)are likely hereditary.
You might say I hit the jackpot-bad genes and bad heredity.;)
So I hope you all will understand where I come from when I say
"We all travel our own road and its not universal" no one else but us.:blush:

[KPM]

Well said.

Life is all about choices. Elvis chose his path, for whatever reasons.

You're right. It is possible to change one's character and habits.

"Wrong side of the tracks" ... ? Big deal.
Well I grew up in the poorest neighborhoods in my area-after my dad killed himself 4 of us lived in 3 rooms in what are known as "defense homes"
Defense homes were built in WW2- for defense workers who made ammunition for the war effort. These houses were thrown together, long rows of 6 houses all connected-like a barracks. No insulation, cheap but quick to throw up. There were about 100 of them in 2 mile area.
After the war they were sold at auctions and landlords had cheap income. To live in the defense homes was the lowest of low in this area. The neighbors were winos, streetwalkers- people who did not want to work. We lived in several of those. My mom had alcohol problems she lived on the SS my dads death brought to her-about $200 amonth for 4 people -in 1960.
She married my 1st step dad in 1961 he was an over the road trucker who knew how to use a belt, a tree branch or for good measure just a good old fashion punch in the mouth. He and my mom fought every other day-police were frequent visitors and my mom herself tried a couple times to kill herself(she was never serious-she always made sure someone got a goodbye call)
In the 8 years they were married-they made the papers a couple times after brawls in public. (which always was fun when you saw your friends)we moved 33 times before I was 18-and yes most of the houses were on what many consider the wrong side of the tracks.
When they divorced she remarried and he was a roofer-he was also an alcoholic-but by then I was old enough to not let anyone punch me.
My mom and he got into a fight one weekend-and bingo another front page story. The shame of a school kid is nothing compared to being in high school and having a front page story on your family. My first real fist fight was with my 2nd step dad defending my mom.
In 72 my uncle killed my aunt on a tavern parking lot and that was another feather in my cap at school.
At 17 my mom moved to Texas and I refused to go-I told her if she tried to force me I would go to Child welfare and tell them how my mom was raising her kids-she did not push it.
Been on my own since 17 and have made my own flawed, mistake laden way-but I'm still here.

[MissyM]

I'd like to know what is meant by lazy. (MM) Do people have any idea what it is like to work 24/7 for someone or meet the demands of a tour? It's not easy.
And I just think that Elvis lived a life-time in 42 years. He was tired. In some ways he never grew up but I also feel that in some ways his 42 was our 62 or 72. And he was stuck in a box. There wasn't a whole lot left for him to experience. He was creative and being so is what made him the will to go on at times. He lost that drive. I know it is said he was looking forward to the next tour. But deep in his heart of hearts, was he? His end came because all life must end at some point. We don't like it, it makes us sad. But in retrospect, not sure I would have wanted to keep him here for the fans. Maybe for his daughter, but waiting around for her visits would have been hard on him.

[Donut]

I am talking about "mental thinking patterns" which develope in every single human being in early childhood. Your conscious mind and inner mind are shaped during this time. In essense the choices you make-how you react, how you perceive what is good and bad they all have their roots in a time you have no control over. I disagree that thinking on your failures and your past is a waste of time (so did my shrink)
The first step is you (or in many case like mine someone else) deciding this guy needs help. They had seen I was self destructive and seemed to always make the wrong choices. I was a worrier 24/7, had terrible trouble sleeping, felt that the sky was falling every single day. I had phobias of all kinds and did not trust many people. Suicidal thoughts were a normal thing-I figured it was hereditary and eventually it would happen.
I relaxed only when using stimulants of one kind or another alcohol and later Xanax which was prescribed, then Valium and a few anti depressants and the mixing of all these. They masked the problems-but did not fix them-and yes I thought well these help me so how can that be bad. (of course the doctor who gave them to me never knew I mixed them. All I knew is it was my only relief from a world of worry) I held a job, interacted with others and went to church. I was ashamed of myself and did not know why.
Now here is my point-I did not know what caused this way of thinking its the way I always thought- it just happened.
How do you overcome a problem you do not recognize? The problems were rooted in the childhood I experienced-which shaped my brain. They were deeply rooted and hidden-I had no clue. My shrink told me talking and exploring your past is the way to discover what brought me to that point. Many of you do not believe in shrinks, nor hidden inner problems, but I can tell you from my experience they are real. If you have not been through such things-I am 100% bottom of my heart-happy for you. I would not wish it on my worst enemy. I will agree you can overcome the worst-but someone has to recognize that it is not a normal way of thinking and reacting to do so.


The heredity thing is another side of the coin-you get what you get mentally and physically. Many illnesses have been absolutely proven as hereditary-more are given good bets as to genetic origin and each year more are proven to be. Once again some just do not accept this idea either, part of my depression problems are because of hormone deficiencies in the brain-which my doctor says (considering all the suicides in my family in the last 90 years)are likely hereditary.
You might say I hit the jackpot-bad genes and bad heredity.;)
So I hope you all will understand where I come from when I say
"We all travel our own road and its not universal" no one else but us.:blush:

The story you tell is terrible and I had read it before. I´m not going to talk about me or my family here but I want to make clear that I don´t take mentall ilnesses lightly. BUT, YOU are not living your problem like your family did even though it can be hereditary, YOU accepted help and tried to understand what was happening to you and YOU made it possible to lead a normal life while having to cope with your problem, your children (I don´t know for sure though) don´t have to follow your path just because they carry your gens. The solution wasn´t imposed to you, you could have said no to your family and they could not have been able to do a thing about it but YOU changed the path your family in the last 90 years followed.

I don´t know if you understand what I´m trying to say KPM but your experience for instance is a perfect example of what I was talking about in the post you quoted from me, all in all, you tried hard and I think you succeed.

[utmom2008]

Been on my own since 17 and have made my own flawed, mistake laden way-but I'm still here.

WOW..thanks for sharing Ken.:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:

[KPM]

The story you tell is terrible and I had read it before. I´m not going to talk about me or my family here but I want to make clear that I don´t take mentall ilnesses lightly. BUT, YOU are not living your problem like your family did even though it can be hereditary, YOU accepted help and tried to understand what was happening to you and YOU made it possible to lead a normal life while having to cope with your problem, your children (I don´t know for sure though) don´t have to follow your path just because they carry your gens. The solution wasn´t imposed to you, you could have said no to your family and they could not have been able to do a thing about it but YOU changed the path your family in the last 90 years followed.

I don´t know if you understand what I´m trying to say KPM but your experience for instance is a perfect example of what I was talking about in the post you quoted from me, all in all, you tried hard and I think you succeed.
If I had been left on my own-that path would be over-that is not a guess I know I would not be here.
Honestly the help was forced on me-I had no choice in the matter. I fought it tooth and nail-it took a year to even accept that they might be right. 4 people- my wife 2 brothers and a doctor had discussions and acted. If they had not I tell you as God is my witness-I would be dead. The shrink I went to spent hours with me and it was not like I suddenly went "they are right"
I am saying without them forcing the issue-without the doctor telling me he was going to cut off the medications I was taking, and the threat of my wife signing papers to commit me into a mental health ward and my brothers backing her up-it would have never happened.
If you are saying I alone-on my own initiative changed the path I was on-with due respect you are wrong.
I have one daughter I worry about-she is a worry wart and has sleep problems. My 26 year old son was brain damaged at birth but he has a great outlook understands his situation and we worked hard to get him as self sufficient as is possible-he was suppose to not mentally get beyond 10-12.
We were told he would never drive, hold a job, nor speak beyond simple things. He works for a local hospital, got his license and has progressed beyond our hopes and dreams. My other daughter is a firecracker-she graduated college 2 years ago and is very upbeat and happy.
So only one daugther shows any signs of a problem. But I have succeeded-but not through my efforts alone-not by a long shot.

[Donut]

If I had been left on my own-that path would be over-that is not a guess I know I would not be here.
Honestly the help was forced on me-I had no choice in the matter. I fought it tooth and nail-it took a year to even accept that they might be right. 4 people- my wife 2 brothers and a doctor had discussions and acted. If they had not I tell you as God is my witness-I would be dead. The shrink I went to spent hours with me and it was not like I suddenly went "they are right"
I am saying without them forcing the issue-without the doctor telling me he was going to cut off the medications I was taking, and the threat of my wife signing papers to commit me into a mental health ward and my brothers backing her up-it would have never happened.If you are saying I alone-on my own initiative changed the path I was on-with due respect you are wrong.
I have one daughter I worry about-she is a worry wart and has sleep problems. My 26 year old son was brain damaged at birth but he has a great outlook understands his situation and we worked hard to get him as self sufficient as is possible-he was suppose to not mentally get beyond 10-12.
We were told he would never drive, hold a job, nor speak beyond simple things. He works for a local hospital, got his license and has progressed beyond our hopes and dreams. My other daughter is a firecracker-she graduated college 2 years ago and is very upbeat and happy.
So only one daugther shows any signs of a problem. But I have succeeded-but not through my efforts alone-not by a long shot.

I still think you were the one who ultimately decided to accept help and the one who was rewarded for his hard effort. I´m sorry if you feel I don´t want to understand your situation but I truly believe no one could have made it possible but you.

[KPM]

I still think you were the one who ultimately decided to accept help and the one who was rewarded for his hard effort. I´m sorry if you feel I don´t want to understand your situation but I truly believe no one could have made it possible but you.
Well this is one of those agreeing to disagree situations. As I said I would not be here if not for what was done-I can not be any more honest about it than that.

[Donut]

Well this is one of those agreeing to disagree situations. As I said I would not be here if not for what was done-I can not be any more honest about it than that.

OK we´ll agree to disagree ;).

[Diane]

What I think Ken is trying to say is that those who love him never gave up trying and threatening until he had no choice but to try and get himself straight. Also his doctor threatening to stop his medication was a great help.

Elvis didn't have people like this behind him. Sure they said they tried but I don't believe it was more than half-heartedly and certainly not strongly or consistent enough and consistency is important. Dr. Nick was not capable or not caring enough to handle the situation, only ending up as another enabler.

Until you have faced this kind of thing in your family, you have no idea what addiction is really about. It's easy to put all the blame and responsibility on the addict's shoulders but once past a certain point, they cannot think clearly for themselves and are in strong denial that they can't handle it and do need strong support from someone....anyone. Go to an Al-Anon meeting sometime and listen. I know what I'm talking about, my Dad was an alcoholic, so is my brother-in-law and several friends and how can anyone disagree with what Ken is telling us when he's been through it all himself?

Diane

[Donut]

Diane, I´m not doubting KPM´s story of his life.
Leaving him aside I´m just saying that ultimately no one can help anyone if that person doesn´t accept help and even though is a hard task it´s completely possible, AND i´m not saying this to disturb you but you never know what other people have could lived or not only by a few posts in a message board :flowers:

[Diane]

Donut, I understand and you know I think a lot of you but I have to disagree with you on this one. Some addicts are so far gone they literally have to be beaten down to finally admit they need help and even then sometimes it doesn't work, not always because of choice but because they've gone beyond any real comprehension of what being said or done around them. They are in a total world or their own where no one can reach them......their mind isn't with the people they know anymore.

I've no idea whether Elvis was that far gone of if he had had that kind of strong support he would have responded and I guess it's a moot point now.

Diane

[utmom2008]

I still think you were the one who ultimately decided to accept help and the one who was rewarded for his hard effort. I´m sorry if you feel I don´t want to understand your situation but I truly believe no one could have made it possible but you.


Well this is one of those agreeing to disagree situations. As I said I would not be here if not for what was done-I can not be any more honest about it than that.

I think I understand the point that you are both trying to get across. Yes, ultimately, it was Ken that decided to improve and change his situation. He alone did that. BUT...I think what Ken is saying is that had his family not hog-tied him and drug him off to get the help, he NEVER would have changed. Ken was not going to make the first step to get help and change his life. He seems to feel very strongly that he would have remained on his road to self-destruction..always. When the time came and he was forcibly put into a program, then YES, it was ALL Ken that did the changing and the improving of his life. He made a HUGE decision to change, to improve...but not until he was left with very few alternatives. Does this make sense to either of you?? Or..should I just hush and go away?;)

Either way...thank God that he chose the right path.:notworthy:notworthy

[presley31]

I know that when l had trouble with drugs, l didn't want any help, but my dear friends are the ones who stood by me and pulled me though that horrible time in my life and they even went as far as dumping my stuff down the toliet right from of me and sit on me while l kicked and sceam, so needless to say you can help someone if you really put your mind to it and want to help your friend, but l really don't think elvis had friends who were ready to risk all to help there friend out.

[KPM]

I think I understand the point that you are both trying to get across. Yes, ultimately, it was Ken that decided to improve and change his situation. He alone did that. BUT...I think what Ken is saying is that had his family not hog-tied him and drug him off to get the help, he NEVER would have changed. Ken was not going to make the first step to get help and change his life. He seems to feel very strongly that he would have remained on his road to self-destruction..always. When the time came and he was forcibly put into a program, then YES, it was ALL Ken that did the changing and the improving of his life. He made a HUGE decision to change, to improve...but not until he was left with very few alternatives. Does this make sense to either of you?? Or..should I just hush and go away?;)

Either way...thank God that he chose the right path.:notworthy:notworthy
Yes you nailed my point right on the head. (not that my head is pointed its like everyone elses)

[utmom2008]

I know that when l had trouble with drugs, l didn't want any help, but my dear friends are the ones who stood by me and pulled me though that horrible time in my life and they even went as far as dumping my stuff down the toliet right from of me and sit on me while l kicked and sceam, so needless to say you can help someone if you really put your mind to it and want to help your friend, but l really don't think elvis had friends who were ready to risk all to help there friend out.

Those are what real friends are all about Jen.(y) I hope that they are still in your life and you can continue to count on them.:blush:

[utmom2008]

Yes you nailed my point right on the head. (not that my head is pointed its like everyone elses)

You mean you don't look like "The Coneheads" from the old Saturday Night Live shows?:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:
I'm glad to know I was on the right track!(y)

[Diane]

That's what I was saying too. Before some addicts get to the point that they choose to change their situation, they have to be FORCIBLY put in some kind of rehabilitation first.

The short little semi-dryout bouts Elvis had in the hospital were no where near this. He may have been detoxified but emotionally he was still addicted which is why he went right back to it when he got home. He needed months of counseling if not years to straighten up.

Ken, do you mind telling us how long it took for you?

Diane

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I'd like to know what is meant by lazy. (MM) Do people have any idea what it is like to work 24/7 for someone or meet the demands of a tour? It's not easy.
And I just think that Elvis lived a life-time in 42 years. He was tired. In some ways he never grew up but I also feel that in some ways his 42 was our 62 or 72. And he was stuck in a box. There wasn't a whole lot left for him to experience. He was creative and being so is what made him the will to go on at times. He lost that drive. I know it is said he was looking forward to the next tour. But deep in his heart of hearts, was he? His end came because all life must end at some point. We don't like it, it makes us sad. But in retrospect, not sure I would have wanted to keep him here for the fans. Maybe for his daughter, but waiting around for her visits would have been hard on him.

A very valid point, IMO if there was a way to make money of the kind touring provided, Elvis would have turned to it very quickly at this point in his life. Touring had lost it's fascination and was very punishing.

[Donut]

I´m of the same opinion and I believe you can change many things of your character and habits, not an easy task but completely possible. Thinking that your way in life and your failures were imposed to you is just a waste of time and an useless obstacle to achive more happiness and well being.
I´m not talking about genetic illnesses here but even though you can carry them that way you don´t have to live them the same way you predecessors did.

Sorry guys I had to quote myself because I don´t know where this discussion started at. Never said addicts should be left alone but if you want my opinion on this I think they could never achieve anything without the will of the addict.
Anway, I stand by my first post which I´m quoting now. Thinking negative or thinking that you can´t, you won´t or you couldn´t never brings anything good so I´ll stick to my filosophy.

[poormansgold]

Sorry guys I had to quote myself because I don´t know where this discussion started at. Never said addicts should be left alone but if you want my opinion on this I think they could never achieve anything without the will of the addict.
Anway, I stand by my first post which I´m quoting now. Thinking negative or thinking that you can´t, you won´t or you couldn´t never brings anything good so I´ll stick to my filosophy.

Know There So much we Can do To Help an addicts, they have to want
that help themself first before they get better and you can't watch them 24 hours day , i know I got Sister Drinks alot and she is payin for It now.
There times We want to forget that they have problem , Elvis Had problem not say no to things, I think that Elvis Never Got over His mother Death and his Divore over Cilla, what keep him going thast last few years was the pills and his daugther and his fans

Tom

[Donut]

Donut, I understand and you know I think a lot of you but I have to disagree with you on this one.
Diane

I know it Diane and I apreciate it. We don´t have to agree on eveything and you can disagree with me anytime you want. ;)

[SleepyJack]

Just want to make one point.....The problem with drugs,to my mind,begins long before the addiction.....and I don`t think Elvis,or too many people around him,understood the problems that sent him in that direction to begin with.....especially as,from what I can make of it Elvis was not really someone who came by a drug habit through the recreational route...it wasn`t just a case of looking for a "buzz"......his drug problems to me always seemed to be out of a need for escape...and there aren`t too many people who had such an unusual life to seek escape from. I think he could have dealt with it all if he had the right support and help...I just don`t think the will was there to do it.

[presley31]

Just want to make one point.....The problem with drugs,to my mind,begins long before the addiction.....and I don`t think Elvis,or too many people around him,understood the problems that sent him in that direction to begin with.....especially as,from what I can make of it Elvis was not really someone who came by a drug habit through the recreational route...it wasn`t just a case of looking for a "buzz"......his drug problems to me always seemed to be out of a need for escape...and there aren`t too many people who had such an unusual life to seek escape from. I think he could have dealt with it all if he had the right support and help...I just don`t think the will was there to do it.

agree there. I think to that elvis took drugs to run away from things he wasn't ready to face and wasn't going to face, but it makes me wonder why nobody helped him when they seen him taking so many pills?? I think if more people stood up to elvis that maybe things might of turned out different cause l don't think he needed all that stuff and he wasn't going to become a boring guy if he wasn't on drugs, but more aware of things around him.

[Diane]

Well Jen, you could be right there. After all weren't Joe and the rest of the MM upset with Elvis spending so much time with Larry Geller because it killed a lot of their "party" time? If Elvis were clear minded, do you think he would have liked to party as much and you know if he stopped the drugs, they would have had to stop theirs as well. Nope, I don't believe they tried that hard to help.

Hey Donut...back to you lady. Hugs(y)

Diane

[KPM]

That's what I was saying too. Before some addicts get to the point that they choose to change their situation, they have to be FORCIBLY put in some kind of rehabilitation first.

The short little semi-dryout bouts Elvis had in the hospital were no where near this. He may have been detoxified but emotionally he was still addicted which is why he went right back to it when he got home. He needed months of counseling if not years to straighten up.

Ken, do you mind telling us how long it took for you?

Diane
Initially about 6 weeks, but the psychiatrists visits went on a couple of years-once a month. Those visits were the "fun' part.;)

[Diane]

Thank you Ken. That's the kind of treatment Elvis would have needed and never got.

Diane

[Unchained Melody]

agree there. I think to that elvis took drugs to run away from things he wasn't ready to face and wasn't going to face, but it makes me wonder [B]why nobody helped him when they seen him taking so many pills??


They tried what on gods name did you expect them to do. Elvis was a grown 42 year old man. I'm so tired of reading why didn't they help him, what were they to have him committed so he could leave on his own, theres no way they could've proved he was crazy or insane. I can't remeber the times i've read about how he would go crazy on you when they tried to tell him the drugs were killing him....he would get pissed and fire them so he wouldn't have to listen to the truth and he knew what they were saying was true he just didnt want to listen to it so he didn't and he fired them..the firing of red dave and sonng is a prime example of that! You can't help no one when they don't want to be helped.

[presley31]

They tried what on gods name did you expect them to do. Elvis was a grown 42 year old man. I'm so tired of reading why didn't they help him, what were they to have him committed so he could leave on his own, theres no way they could've proved he was crazy or insane. I can't remeber the times i've read about how he would go crazy on you when they tried to tell him the drugs were killing him....he would get pissed and fire them so he wouldn't have to listen to the truth and he knew what they were saying was true he just didnt want to listen to it so he didn't and he fired them..the firing of red dave and sonng is a prime example of that! You can't help no one when they don't want to be helped.

well everyone got different opinions on this and that will never change, but let me you my loyal friends helped me though my drug problem and i won't get into the lengths of stuff they went though, but they got me though and trust me like elvis l didn't think l had a problem, but everyone around knew it so if you try to help someone mircles can happen, but elvis didn't get that chance l did:'(

[Merry]

Diane, I´m not doubting KPM´s story of his life.
Leaving him aside I´m just saying that ultimately no one can help anyone if that person doesn´t accept help and even though is a hard task it´s completely possible, AND i´m not saying this to disturb you but you never know what other people have could lived or not only by a few posts in a message board :flowers:


Is this true, really, or something everyone just repeats, because someone else said it?

I don't have the answer, but I'm curious if others, and I know everyone is different, but if anyone else feels that if there was just this one person or loved one who insisted, who didn't let go, if that made the difference, and the person in difficulty did in the end accept help or their lifeline, did see that person as the light at the end of the tunnel, their earth angel?

[Unchained Melody]

did see that person as the light at the end of the tunnel, their earth angel?

What does "earth angel" have to do with this ? :hmm:It's not a matter of Elvis seeing his so called "earth angel" or the light @ the end of the tunnel. he was just in that position where he could buy drugs, friends etc...if they wouldn't obey his wishes, he would find others...

[Getlo]

Earth angels, yet! :rolleyes:

[Unchained Melody]

Earth angels, yet!:rolleyes:

Thinking the same thing.....

[Donut]

Is this true, really, or something everyone just repeats, because someone else said it?



This is true. Someone can advise you or help you find the right way but it´s your constant effort what makes it work. Don´t expect reward without will and the work it takes in anything in life.

[Unchained Melody]

well everyone got different opinions on this and that will never change, but let me you my loyal friends helped me though my drug problem and i won't get into the lengths of stuff they went though, but they got me though and trust me like elvis l didn't think l had a problem, but everyone around knew it so if you try to help someone mircles can happen, but elvis didn't get that chance l did:'(

I will say it is such ashame Elvis wouldnt let those close to him help him when they could've saved him had he allowed it...:'(