The West'

[Unchained Melody]

So I can tell from the sonny west thread many fans still hold a grudge against him for the cooperation he had in the elvis what happened book. What what about Red West, who was with elvis since they were in high school when red would take up for elvis when guys would puck up him because of his hair and side burns. What are your thoughts on hin, me, i like him, and after listening to the phone conversation he had with elvis in october 1976 i can understand where he was coming from and thought he was very very hurt after being fired and the fact he had been there so long side Elvis' side, and elvis didn't even tell him personally had his dad do it. I like red because after all these years he hasn't been hardly public at all and haven't seen any books that i know of from him except for the elvis what happened. and after reading it i notice whenever they tell about the good times in the book, you will notice that it was Red telling those stories and thats why i like him. he hasn't been nearly as public after elvis' death as sonny has but thats not a knock on him.

[utmom2008]

Good luck with this thread Bradley. Threads about the MM, especially the West boys, generally turn ugly before they are over.:blink::blush::blink:

[Unchained Melody]

No thats not what I want to happen. just was curious as to if fans maye liked red more seeing as how he hasn't been public about elvis since his death etc..

[President Presley]

I do hold a kind of a grudge against Red and Sonny West, and I do appreciate your opinion.
Mine opinion is: never let a good friend down, escpecially when that friend is sick, even dying.

I haven't read the book so I have no opinion on that, all I know is that Elvis wasn't too happy with it and he wanted to proof the West' were wrong and that's why he performed so much in 1977.

After all the dissapointments in the mid 70's, Elvis... What Happened, was the last push, IMO.

[utmom2008]

No thats not what I want to happen. just was curious as to if fans maye liked red more seeing as how he hasn't been public about elvis since his death etc..

I know that's not your intention.. :supriced:I didn't mean it that way.:blink: It's just a topic that people feel strongly about..one way or the other.

[Unchained Melody]

I haven't read the book so I have no opinion on that, all I know is that Elvis wasn't too happy with it and he wanted to proof the West' were wrong and that's why he performed so much in 1977.
.

And i think the reason for the huge weight loss from otcotber to december 1976 was motivation for him to say hey i'm not done yet guys and he put on some awesome shows during that time but we the feb 77 tour started it seemed like he lost all that motivation slowly :(

[Unchained Melody]

I know that's not your intention.. :supriced:I didn't mean it that way.:blink: It's just a topic that people feel strongly about..one way or the other.

I know what you mean !! (y)(y)

[Getlo]

I do hold a kind of a grudge against Red and Sonny West

A grudge can only be held by someone actually involved in a situation. Otherwise, it's just taking sides for the hell of it.


never let a good friend down, escpecially when that friend is sick, even dying.

And don't get your daddy to fire your friends when you can't or won't do it yourself. Oh, and don't sleep with your cousin's wife. Elvis did both of these.


I haven't read the book

Then your "grudge" is only based on hearsay and others' opinions of the West boys. Read the book (and Sonny's latest tome) for their real story.


he wanted to proof the West' were wrong and that's why he performed so much in 1977.

The amount of performing he did in 1977 had nothing to do with the book. It was all about money. He and his business empire needed cash. Simple as that.

As for the Wests being "wrong"? Please. Elvis knew what was in the book; what was about to be published for the world to see. He was terrified (incorectly, IMO) that his fans would turn against him. He knew there was truth in the book. There is nothing in EWH that isn't, in essence, truthful - potential vindictiveness from former friends notwithstanding.

[cameron]

I do hold a kind of a grudge against Red and Sonny West, and I do appreciate your opinion.
Mine opinion is: never let a good friend down, escpecially when that friend is sick, even dying.

I haven't read the book so I have no opinion on that, all I know is that Elvis wasn't too happy with it and he wanted to proof the West' were wrong and that's why he performed so much in 1977.

After all the dissapointments in the mid 70's, Elvis... What Happened, was the last push, IMO.

I guess I can hold a grudge . ;) I read their books and nothing has changed as far as I'm concerned. They're still trying to make everything Elvis' fault . {not that he doesn't share in the blame. IMO, it's EP's fault he kept them around for so long. They cost him a lot of money }

Between the lawsuits because of the Wests "beating up his fans" , Dr Nick borrowing thousands of dollars , The Racqet Ball Court, losing over $ 1 million from getting cheated in a plane deal, his divorce settlement etc. etc. Elvis was in bad financial shape. He had no choice but to work as much as he could. I've never heard any of them say, "I'm sorry." They only want to "prove" how right they were , in order to get the fans to accept them and keep living off of Elvis. :'(

[Lisarose]

A grudge can only be held by someone actually involved in a situation. Otherwise, it's just taking sides for the hell of it.

Agree, fans, including me, just sometimes feel like we have to defend Elvis regardless of the 'fact that he was an adult.

As for the Wests being "wrong"? Please. Elvis knew what was in the book; what was about to be published for the world to see. He was terrified (incorectly, IMO) that his fans would turn against him. He knew there was truth in the book. There is nothing in EWH that isn't, in essence, truthful - potential vindictiveness from former friends notwithstanding.

Elvis hated to deal with situations that made him uncomfortable. That's been stated before. Red was as good a friend as he could be, I suppose. I don't know a lot about Red, I haven't read his book. I certainly don't blame him for any hurt feelings he may have had. I know that friends, true friends, don't start telling tales about you behind your back for cash - but how many times does a true friend have to get kicked around before he really gets pisst? Red was famous for his temper and his unruliness. Elvis knew that & he shouldn't have been surprised to have been outed - [I repeat, I haven't read the book] especially if these guys really did try to get him to walk the line beforehand.

Did Red ever get a chance to 'make up' with Elvis before Elvis died? I remember hearing about the taped phone call, but I've never listened to that either.

[Getlo]

They're still trying to make everything Elvis' fault .

I've never heard any of them say, "I'm sorry."

You need to re-read Sonny's book, then, and read recent interviews with Red and Sonny.

Can't say the same for Hebler, though.

[Getlo]

I know that friends, true friends, don't start telling tales about you behind your back for cash - but how many times does a true friend have to get kicked around before he really gets pisst?

Precisely.


especially if these guys really did try to get him to walk the line beforehand.

They did. Many times. Elvis refused their help, something many people conveniently forget.

[Tony Trout]

A grudge can only be held by someone actually involved in a situation. Otherwise, it's just taking sides for the hell of it.



And don't get your daddy to fire your friends when you can't or won't do it yourself. Oh, and don't sleep with your cousin's wife. Elvis did both of these.



Then your "grudge" is only based on hearsay and others' opinions of the West boys. Read the book (and Sonny's latest tome) for their real story.



The amount of performing he did in 1977 had nothing to do with the book. It was all about money. He and his business empire needed cash. Simple as that.

As for the Wests being "wrong"? Please. Elvis knew what was in the book; what was about to be published for the world to see. He was terrified (incorectly, IMO) that his fans would turn against him. He knew there was truth in the book. There is nothing in EWH that isn't, in essence, truthful - potential vindictiveness from former friends notwithstanding.



I'm going with Getlo all the way here. One other thing that everybody in that other thread is forgetting is that the West's didn't write that **** book! It was totally written by that ******* Steve Dunleavey and by the time they saw what was going to be published, they couldn't do a **** thing about it. They gave Dunelavey their things that they wanted to put in the book (which was nothing like what appeared in the final pressing) but when they saw what was actually written in there, they couldn't do anything about it. They had absolutely not a single clue that Dunleavey was going to write the trash that he wrote.

I'm frankly getting very tired of all the negativity from everyone about the West boys. I say it's time to forgive and forget. What's done is done and we can't change that. Why are we acting like we can? We all weren't 'buddy-buddy' with Elvis! Why act like we were?



I have a feeling that this thread is gonna turn pretty nasty pretty soon.....




They did. Many times. Elvis refused their help, something many people conveniently forget.


Exactly.

[Getlo]

I say it's time to forgive and forget. .

I can't forgive the West boys ... because they did nothing to me, nor anyone else on here!

There is nothing to forgive them for.

[Lisarose]

I'm going with Getlo all the way here. One other thing that everybody in that other thread is forgetting is that the West's didn't write that **** book! It was totally written by that ******* Steve Dunleavey and by the time they saw what was going to be published, they couldn't do a **** thing about it.

I have a feeling that this thread is gonna turn pretty nasty pretty soon.....

Why is that? Did they give up certain rights to the publisher? I'm amazed that you can't make sure that a project bearing your name has your ideas and opinions, and that it's done just the way you want it done. I know that publishers pay in advance sometimes, OMG, am I just naive, here?

And please let's be more adult than we claim the West boys are! No Nastiness allowed, don't make me use the mom voice!

[Tony Trout]

Why is that? Did they give up certain rights to the publisher? I'm amazed that you can't make sure that a project bearing your name has your ideas and opinions, and that it's done just the way you want it done. I know that publishers pay in advance sometimes, OMG, am I just naive, here?


Dunleavey was (still is?) a tabloid writer...that should have been a red flag for them right then. He's a 'sensationalist' writer and he's paid to make things look/read 'exciting' or 'newsworthy' (as are most of those writers for those 'rag mags'.

[cameron]

I'm going with Getlo all the way here. One other thing that everybody in that other thread is forgetting is that the West's didn't write that **** book! It was totally written by that ******* Steve Dunleavey and by the time they saw what was going to be published, they couldn't do a **** thing about it. They gave Dunelavey their things that they wanted to put in the book (which was nothing like what appeared in the final pressing) but when they saw what was actually written in there, they couldn't do anything about it. They had absolutely not a single clue that Dunleavey was going to write the trash that he wrote.

I'm frankly getting very tired of all the negativity from everyone about the West boys. I say it's time to forgive and forget. What's done is done and we can't change that. Why are we acting like we can? We all weren't 'buddy-buddy' with Elvis! Why act like we were?


That's just not tue, Tony. But, you can believe what you want, same as I can. I don't have to forgive anyone for anything if I don't want to.
I choose not to give them anything. They took enough, IMO. ;)

[Getlo]

Dunleavey was (still is?) a tabloid writer...'.

Steve Dunleavy is a journalist by trade. How he exercised his abilities and talents (he has many) is open to conjecture.

He is still active as a journalist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Dunleavy

In his early days, he did have credibility as a journalist here in Sydney, and throughout Australia.

[Lisarose]

So, then, Tony, Getlo, is the book EWH, factual for the most part?

I'm going over to amazon.com now to order a copy. Hopefully, I can get it cheap.

[Tony Trout]

So, then, Tony, Getlo, is the book EWH, factual for the most part?



For the most part, yes it's factual.

[cameron]

:hmm: Charlie Hodge sued an author and won. Looks like Red and Soony could have. ??

[utmom2008]

I'm going with Getlo all the way here. One other thing that everybody in that other thread is forgetting is that the West's didn't write that **** book! It was totally written by that ******* Steve Dunleavey and by the time they saw what was going to be published, they couldn't do a **** thing about it.[b] They gave Dunelavey their things that they wanted to put in the book (which was nothing like what appeared in the final pressing) but when they saw what was actually written in there, they couldn't do anything about it. They had absolutely not a single clue that Dunleavey was going to write the trash that he wrote.



[QUOTE=Tony Trout;213568]For the most part, yes it's factual.


As Ricky Ricardo would always say....[I]Can someone "SPLAIN" this to me??:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[utmom2008]

Good luck with this thread Bradley. Threads about the MM, especially the West boys, generally turn ugly before they are over.:blink::blush::blink:





I have a feeling that this thread is gonna turn pretty nasty pretty soon



:hmm::hmm::hmm::doh::doh::doh:
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

[TotallyInsane]

:hmm::hmm::hmm::doh::doh::doh:
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:


He's a pretty fart smeller huh Rosie????

[utmom2008]

He's a pretty fart smeller huh Rosie????

:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[KPM]

I do not dislike the Wests- especially Red. But IMO it was not as one sided as they have portrayed. Just like a marriage when it goes bad each has a level of responsibility as to blame.
I think in 75-76 tensions between Elvis and them were high for a lot of reasons. There were lawsuits which Elvis and his lawyer had to deal with concerning the Wests. One of which it was reported in at least 2 books that Elvis settled out of court for over $600,000. That was the well documented incident on May 20 1974 where Edward Ashley claimed he was beaten by the bodyguards, Red and Sonny, in front of Elvis. In one book it is claimed that the guy had already been knocked unconscious once by Sonny-had been handcuffed and was lying on a bed. Elvis went in to try to wake him to find out why the guy was trying to get into his suite-as he was awakening he saw Red near Elvis and he tryed to kick Red, Red hit the guy so hard some teeth were knocked out and Elvis yelled at Red because the guy was handcuffed and could not really have hurt anyone in that state.
Elvis had his problems for sure but IMO the Wests are not blameless individuals who did no wrong.
I've read Sonny and Elvis had a blowup a few days before they were fired over plane tickets that Vernon was suppose to have bought for Sonnys wife-it was pretty heated. Sonny has admitted he had a bad temper and so did Elvis- that is not a good combination. Maybe the closeness of all the years, the "employee/friend relationships" with the Wests had just come to a head.
As far as having his father fire them-Elvis payed the bills it was his call-morally right or wrong.

[4THEHEART]

millions of excuses for Wests,included a Dunleavey even for their books,yet no excuse for our ever bad Elvis .. it was perfectly his right to fire those rude team..but I can say in the same exact way as some of our friends talk of Elvis's life (including his bedroom),that those Wests was gone only to be hired back by Elvis..they just over excited to publish their book that soon..if Wests was his so called friends,Vernon was his father who was given some responsibilities and they weren't the only and most important problem in Elvis' life in those days..he took enough care of worthless people all of his life but still no one's happy..one more thing,trying to save Elvis? in what way?

[Merry]

I guess I can hold a grudge . ;) I read their books and nothing has changed as far as I'm concerned. They're still trying to make everything Elvis' fault . {not that he doesn't share in the blame. IMO, it's EP's fault he kept them around for so long. They cost him a lot of money }

Between the lawsuits because of the Wests "beating up his fans" , Dr Nick borrowing thousands of dollars , The Racqet Ball Court, losing over $ 1 million from getting cheated in a plane deal, his divorce settlement etc. etc. Elvis was in bad financial shape. He had no choice but to work as much as he could. I've never heard any of them say, "I'm sorry." They only want to "prove" how right they were , in order to get the fans to accept them and keep living off of Elvis. :'(


Those who still do the circuits, are simply trying to justify their behaviour, while making a living, so they can live with themselves.

That said, they still all love Elvis, which is a good thing, it's just that their outlook and standards are different to other's. I agree with you.

[Merry]

don't make me use the mom voice!


LOL, pity we can't reply with voice sometimes, on here, I'd love to hear that (need it for my son at times, too, lol).

Hugs,
Kim

[Unchained Melody]

And don't get your daddy to fire your friends when you can't or won't do it yourself. Oh, and don't sleep with your cousin's wife. Elvis did both of these.

But still Elvis didn't do anything wrong he was always the victim. It goes both ways.

The amount of performing he did in 1977 had nothing to do with the book. It was all about money. He and his business empire needed cash. Simple as that.


Exactly he was almost broke when he died!

[Unchained Melody]

I'm going with Getlo all the way here. One other thing that everybody in that other thread is forgetting is that the West's didn't write that **** book! It was totally written by that ******* Steve Dunleavey and by the time they saw what was going to be published, they couldn't do a **** thing about it. They gave Dunelavey their things that they wanted to put in the book (which was nothing like what appeared in the final pressing) but when they saw what was actually written in there, they couldn't do anything about it. They had absolutely not a single clue that Dunleavey was going to write the trash that he wrote.

I'm frankly getting very tired of all the negativity from everyone about the West boys. I say it's time to forgive and forget. What's done is done and we can't change that. Why are we acting like we can? We all weren't 'buddy-buddy' with Elvis! Why act like we were?



I have a feeling that this thread is gonna turn pretty nasty pretty soon.....






Exactly.

I am in agreement wiht you Tony and Getlo all the way aswell on this. I am no longer going to get involved with these threads bashing the MM. Your right Tony whats done is done, and I think Elvis, if he could look back at it all and how it went down he would want us to forgive and forget aswell. That said I'm listening to some JBGoodE(y)(y)

[Donut]

he took enough care of worthless people all of his life

Excuse me but i found that statemen amazing. :blink:
I wouldn´t say that even of my worst enemy... no one in the world is worthless and i bet most people that dislike them have read their books or interviews if not just out of curiosity.

[john carpenter]

I read "ELVIS, What Happened"? in 1977,and being an Elvis fan i was shocked but not surprised by what was written in the "bodyguard book". And i wasn't there so i don't know what really transpired in Elvis' life. Red & Sonny were hurt by the firing i'm sure (i know i would be) And i'm pretty sure Elvis did use/ abuse his prescriptions. He was only human..not a god. I admit i like Sonny more then Red... don't ask me why. But it's best to forgive and not hold grudges especially against someone you never met.

[4THEHEART]

it is not too much to say so for the persons who chose to treat their friend(Elvis) like that in front of a whole world..but on second thoughts,you maybe right Donut..I'd better use the word violent for those cousins..we all worth from minimum to maximum,this is a progression that will go on..my comment was for their present situation..we'll all be in better levels in time,spiritual development that is..Elvis was a chance for them to learn some,they just didn't get it ..

[Lisarose]

millions of excuses for Wests,included a Dunleavey even for their books,yet no excuse for our ever bad Elvis .. it was perfectly his right to fire those rude team..but I can say in the same exact way as some of our friends talk of Elvis's life (including his bedroom),that those Wests was gone only to be hired back by Elvis..they just over excited to publish their book that soon..if Wests was his so called friends,Vernon was his father who was given some responsibilities and they weren't the only and most important problem in Elvis' life in those days..he took enough care of worthless people all of his life but still no one's happy..one more thing,trying to save Elvis? in what way?

I haven't decided which way to go on the West boys, and I'm going to ignore the nasties. I will say that in all my years of working I've never seen a boss do the firing - except on Trump's reality show. And on that show, Trump really isn't the boss, is he? The network is. It's always handed down to someone else. It's hard to be boss and friend, but that was only one of Elvis' mistakes. Are we angry because the Westies are still alive and Elvis is dead? I know it doesn't make me happy. Hindsight really is 20/20, isn't it?

The mom voice - well, Kim, it's loud, rough and using very few words. Boys just can't handle too many syllables! This comes from a lot of years of little league coaching and cub scout dens!:lmfao: For example "Get down off the roof, NOW!"

[utmom2008]

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that these days Sonny West looks just like Sergeant Carter on the old Gomer Pyle USMC television show?:supriced::supriced: :laughing::laughing:

[Donut]

I´ve always thought there were more than the firing problem from both parts to go to that extreme and writing the book after all those years of friendship and is a shame. I think the book was a big mistake from the Wests part and i´m sorry for how Elvis must have felt when he found out but i´m not going to condem them for that because among other things i have enjoyed many stories they have told about Elvis and i can imagine how they felt when Elvis death coincided with the release of their book. It´s very sad that all this story finished that way.

[Lisarose]

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that these days Sonny West looks just like Sergeant Carter on the old Gomer Pyle USMC television show?:supriced::supriced: :laughing::laughing:

Roseanne! You're addicted to Nick! Come back to us! But you're right, there is a resemblence, only Sonny's taller. :lmfao:

So, after the guys outed Elvis, how much responsibility for any of that did they take on? After all, they did have the power to say no - to walk away - to do the RIGHT thing. Didn't their mom's ever give them the 'if all your friends jump off the Brooklyn Bridge, does that mean, you gotta?' speech?

[utmom2008]

Roseanne! You're addicted to Nick! Come back to us! But you're right, there is a resemblence, only Sonny's taller.
:lmfao:



:supriced::supriced: You can tell how dull my life is! In the last 24 hours I have thought about Gladys Kravitz and Sergeant Carter!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

The West's were no angels, Elvis was no angel, all were adults.

I agree with what has been said earlier in the thread.... How can you judge someone when you don't have all the facts to hand? We don't know what has been said behind closed doors, I'm sure both sides had heated discussions. One thing for sure is that the outcome has left all concerned unhappy as a result.

I don't buy that Elvis' death was hastened by "Elvis What Happened?" Its pretty clear that Elvis had chosen a path that even he was unwilling or unable to change long before the book was published.

None of us have lived blameless lives...

* Does our actions in Hast/anger define us for the rest of our life?

* Extract from the Lords prayer.... "as we forgive those who trespass against us."

Its crazy that fans, some of whom haven't even read EWH or even met Sonny Or Red can pass judgment and condemn these guys to a lifetime of derision?

The same fans are quite happy to forgive Elvis his transgressions. Surely we should acknowledge the transgressions by the West's and then use the same logical fairness we afford Elvis?

[Unchained Melody]

The West's were no angels, Elvis was no angel, all were adults.

I agree with what has been said earlier in the thread.... How can you judge someone when you don't have all the facts to hand? We don't know what has been said behind closed doors, I'm sure both sides had heated discussions. One thing for sure is that the outcome has left all concerned unhappy as a result.

I don't buy that Elvis' death was hastened by "Elvis What Happened?" Its pretty clear that Elvis had chosen a path that even he was unwilling or unable to change long before the book was published.

None of us have lived blameless lives...

* Does our actions in Hast/anger define us for the rest of our life?

* Extract from the Lords prayer.... "as we forgive those who trespass against us."

Its crazy that fans, some of whom haven't even read EWH or even met Sonny Or Red can pass judgment and condemn these guys to a lifetime of derision?

The same fans are quite happy to forgive Elvis his transgressions. Surely we should acknowledge the transgressions by the West's and then use the same logical fairness we afford Elvis?

Well put Matt. Agreed on all accounts !!(y)

Like passage from the Lords Prayer you used as well. Very nice :notworthy

[KPM]

The West's were no angels, Elvis was no angel, all were adults.
I agree with what has been said earlier in the thread.... How can you judge someone when you don't have all the facts to hand? We don't know what has been said behind closed doors, I'm sure both sides had heated discussions. One thing for sure is that the outcome has left all concerned unhappy as a result.

I don't buy that Elvis' death was hastened by "Elvis What Happened?" Its pretty clear that Elvis had chosen a path that even he was unwilling or unable to change long before the book was published.

None of us have lived blameless lives...

* Does our actions in Hast/anger define us for the rest of our life?

* Extract from the Lords prayer.... "as we forgive those who trespass against us."

Its crazy that fans, some of whom haven't even read EWH or even met Sonny Or Red can pass judgment and condemn these guys to a lifetime of derision?

The same fans are quite happy to forgive Elvis his transgressions. Surely we should acknowledge the transgressions by the West's and then use the same logical fairness we afford Elvis?
I posted this in the other West thread:
The sadness to me is that they were all good close friends. Red and Elvis back to high school. Anytime lives get so intertwined and close you are bound to see the relationships change. What had been fun-no longer always was, close buddies drifted into different roles and all that takes its toll on everyone. Power, jealousy, envy & greed are all human qualities which every person who ever lived possessed. Mistakes and human shortcomings are at play on all sides in every human encounter. (even superstars and their employees, relatives and friends)
If Elvis were still here he could counter their stories with his own and try to explain his action and deeds.
All of you who have talked to Sonny in person, or Red etc....many of you have found them sincere and believable but you have never had the chance to sit across from Elvis and ask him to rebute their accounts of what happened. Would we find him any less believable in his accounts? Would we find him any less sincere?
Its a complicated story with many sides but the huge gapping hole in all of this is what would Elvis's side be. ;)

[Jungleroom76]

Dunleavey was (still is?) a tabloid writer...that should have been a red flag for them right then. He's a 'sensationalist' writer and he's paid to make things look/read 'exciting' or 'newsworthy' (as are most of those writers for those 'rag mags'.

EXCELLENT POINT TONY!!! (y)

Unfortunately Col. Jon, I don't have much of an opinion on Red these days since he doesn't speak much about his time with Elvis. Obviously, Sonny is in the spotlight much more talking about his time with Elvis so I can really only offer my opinion on Sonny (as I have mentioned in the Sonny's DVD thread).

But Tony is right here....The West boys should have known what could happen with their story by telling it to a sensationalist writer!!! :angry:

TCB!
Mike

[TotallyInsane]

I'm sure they knew - they were looking for someone to make them a million bucks!! They had something that they knew would be a hot item and they sold their friend out!! Sure hope Rosanne doesn't find a writer and tell how I jump out of bed and dance to Elvis!!!

[Jungleroom76]

Sure hope Rosanne doesn't find a writer and tell how I jump out of bed and dance to Elvis!!!

Oh don't worry about Rosanne finding out....I already know ALL about it!!! :P

TCB!
Mike

[Unchained Melody]

I'm sure they knew - they were looking for someone to make them a million bucks!! They had something that they knew would be a hot item and they sold their friend out!!

You mean sort of like Elvis when he fell asleep with one of the West' wifes. Or when he flew out of town so he didn't have to confront them and tell them they would be fired and had his daddy do ita nd told them they would be hired back in a month or two and they were never heard from again !!. You have to remember elvis' behavior at that time was very strange. He was so unhappy with his career, touring, everything, and most of all I believe he was simply tired of being Elvis Presley:'(

[Merry]

You mean sort of like Elvis when he fell asleep with one of the West' wifes. Or when he flew out of town so he didn't have to confront them and tell them they would be fired and had his daddy do ita nd told them they would be hired back in a month or two and they were never heard from again !!. You have to remember elvis' behavior at that time was very strange. He was so unhappy with his career, touring, everything, and most of all I believe he was simply tired of being Elvis Presley:'(


That's how the Wests, or those who pass blame, tell it, yes.

Yes, he was sick and tired of being Elvis Presley, I agree, it was just too much.

Take care,
Kim

[cameron]

That's how the Wests, or those who pass blame, tell it, yes.

Yes, he was sick and tired of being Elvis Presley, I agree, it was just too much.

Take care,
Kim
You cannot tell someone anything that think they already know it all. :lmfao:
It must be time for me to find an Elvis site .:blink:
You're a good woman, Jess . Take care of yourself.

[Lisarose]

I'm sure they knew - they were looking for someone to make them a million bucks!! They had something that they knew would be a hot item and they sold their friend out!! Sure hope Rosanne doesn't find a writer and tell how I jump out of bed and dance to Elvis!!!

Of course they knew, they were hardly innocents. They'd been there and done that with - I'm sure, quite a few Elvis headline making stories. Poor judgement to say the least- at best they did get his attention. And that's what saddens me. I don't think it was in Elvis' nature to 'expose' anyone so publicly. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that. And I don't mean his rants on stage when the drugs were taking over, I mean when he was of sound mind.

Well, Gail, I hope Roseanne doesn't expect to make much money with that story - or did you mean dance with Elvis!:blink: (y)

[Lisarose]

That's how the Wests, or those who pass blame, tell it, yes.

Yes, he was sick and tired of being Elvis Presley, I agree, it was just too much.

Take care,
Kim

He was certainly sick & tired of something!

Too bad he didn't get my memo to partake of some R & R at my place!

[utmom2008]

Good luck with this thread Bradley. Threads about the MM, especially the West boys, generally turn ugly before they are over.:blink::blush::blink:


I am in agreement wiht you Tony and Getlo all the way aswell on this. I am no longer going to get involved with these threads bashing the MM.

You can't say I didn't warn you Bradley!;):lol::lol:

[utmom2008]

I posted this in the other West thread:
The sadness to me is that they were all good close friends. Red and Elvis back to high school. Anytime lives get so intertwined and close you are bound to see the relationships change. What had been fun-no longer always was, close buddies drifted into different roles and all that takes its toll on everyone. Power, jealousy, envy & greed are all human qualities which every person who ever lived possessed. Mistakes and human shortcomings are at play on all sides in every human encounter. (even superstars and their employees, relatives and friends)
If Elvis were still here he could counter their stories with his own and try to explain his action and deeds.
All of you who have talked to Sonny in person, or Red etc....many of you have found them sincere and believable but you have never had the chance to sit across from Elvis and ask him to rebute their accounts of what happened. Would we find him any less believable in his accounts? Would we find him any less sincere?
Its a complicated story with many sides but the huge gapping hole in all of this is what would Elvis's side be. ;)

I was going to high-lite the best parts of your post...but there is NO best part of your post.;);) Outstanding post.....2 THUMBS-UP!!!! (y)(y)(y)(y)

[Merry]

He was certainly sick & tired of something!

Too bad he didn't get my memo to partake of some R & R at my place!



LOL, grin...........sigh..... :D

He wouldn't be sick of me :blush:;):D

[Merry]

You cannot tell someone anything that think they already know it all. :lmfao:
It must be time for me to find an Elvis site .:blink:
You're a good woman, Jess . Take care of yourself.


Cameron, don't do that!

Thank you, but I would like you to stay.

:D Come on :D

Kimmi

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

You cannot tell someone anything that think they already know it all. :lmfao:

Indeed, an astute observation, I see this a lot as well :P:lol:

[ehollier]

I posted this in a few other places since the topic of the Sonny West has erupted. I hope you find some wisdom in it....

Elvis has been affecting people for 60 years!!!! He has touched countless while during his short life and since his death, that came too soon. It is so apparent that there is a division of opinions when it comes to the MM or Priscilla. If we really want to honor his memory, his contributions, his talent, his life - it is important that we respect everyone's opinions here. I know Elvis would have done the same thing.

I happened upon this today and it if very appropriate and fitting for today.

“It’s rare when an artist’s talent can touch an entire generation of people. It’s even rarer when that same influence affects several generations. ...”

Dick Clark

[cameron]

[B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]
If we really want to honor his memory, his contributions, his talent, his life - it is important that we respect everyone's opinions here. I know Elvis would have done the same thing.
Thank you.
I really feel that he would have gotten P.O. first and told everyone what he thought. ;) :lol:

[Lisarose]

I posted this in a few other places since the topic of the Sonny West has erupted. I hope you find some wisdom in it....

Elvis has been affecting people for 60 years!!!! He has touched countless while during his short life and since his death, that came too soon. It is so apparent that there is a division of opinions when it comes to the MM or Priscilla. If we really want to honor his memory, his contributions, his talent, his life - it is important that we respect everyone's opinions here. I know Elvis would have done the same thing.

I happened upon this today and it if very appropriate and fitting for today.

“It’s rare when an artist’s talent can touch an entire generation of people. It’s even rarer when that same influence affects several generations. ...”

Dick Clark

Excellent quote by Dick Clark. Loved your comments, too, for above all there should be respect.

[Unchained Melody]

You can't say I didn't warn you Bradley!;):lol::lol:

You did you did.

I know I said I wasn't going to take up in these threads anymore, but my, I just watched one of the best Elvis specials i've seen called Elvis the last 24 hours and it was very good indeed. Sonny, you listen to him talk about how he was hurt the way it went down and see the tears in his eyes, and everyone else like Lamar Fike you can tell they all loved him and were his friend.

One thing I remember was when Colonel was on the phone with Joe, and joe was informing the Colonel that elvis had died. He (colonel) got off the phone and walked up to Lamar an inch from his face and said go back to memphis elvis is dead. Lamar said it hit him like a sledge hammer, and he said he looked at him, and said, listen, you know what, you finally ran him into the ground and colonel got mad and he said you know what im talking about, you kept workin him in the ground wouldn't let him up, Colonel said you need to leave and Lamar repled, yeah i'm going to leave to keep from knockin your **** teeth out".

Hat's off to Lamar for those who tend to bash on him!!(y)

[SweetCaroline]

I'm sure they knew - they were looking for someone to make them a million bucks!! They had something that they knew would be a hot item and they sold their friend out!! Sure hope Rosanne doesn't find a writer and tell how I jump out of bed and dance to Elvis!!!

In my opinion...
EXACTLY, Insane. They sold their friend out BIGTIME! :angry::angry::angry: That is the bottom line!!!
All the excuses as to why are just b.s. They did what they did! They try to SMOOTH it over as if nothing is wrong with what they did to ELVIS. Being let go to find other work CANNOT in ANY stretch of the imagination be compared to to writing an EVIL book and airing every piece of dirty laundry :angry:they could find on a person they "say" they love FOR MONEY. The comparison of the two things that happened is just absolutely ridiculous.

[utmom2008]

You did you did.

Sonny, you listen to him talk about how he was hurt the way it went down and see the tears in his eyes, and everyone else like Lamar Fike you can tell they all loved him and were his friend.


Hat's off to Lamar for those who tend to bash on him!!(y)

:lol: OK Bradley...I'm going to share another tidbit with you. Not many on here like Lamar Fike either...so don't be surprised if there are ugly comments about him as well.:lmfao::lmfao:


In my opinion...
EXACTLY, Insane. They sold their friend out BIGTIME! :angry::angry::angry: That is the bottom line!!!
All the excuses as to why are just b.s. They did what they did! They try to SMOOTH it over as if nothing is wrong with what they did to ELVIS. Being let go to find other work CANNOT in ANY stretch of the imagination be compared to to writing an EVIL book and airing every piece of dirty laundry :angry:they could find on a person they "say" they love FOR MONEY. The comparison of the two things that happened is just absolutely ridiculous.
I tend to think of it this way....if they loved Elvis soooo much and they were only trying to help, then they should have given the money to a charity, or some other worthwhile project.;););)

[Unchained Melody]

:lol: OK Bradley...I'm going to share another tidbit with you. Not many on here like Lamar Fike either...so don't be surprised if there are ugly comments about him as well

I know this. I still wanted to share that with you because if you watch it on The Last 24 Hours, it was pretty interesting story to hear him tell..and he was doing it on Elvis' behalf so don't see how Lamar can be put down for that but hey, i'm sure someone will find a way (y);)

[utmom2008]

I know this. I still wanted to share that with you because if you watch it on The Last 24 Hours, it was pretty interesting story to hear him tell..and he was doing it on Elvis' behalf so don't see how Lamar can be put down for that but hey, i'm sure someone will find a way (y);)

One reason that Lamar Fike is so unpopular is because he will forever be associated with Albert Goldman. Yes...I have seen The Last 24 Hours.:blink::blink:

[Unchained Melody]

One reason that Lamar Fike is so unpopular is because he will forever be associated with Albert Goldman.

What a worm that dude was(n)

[cameron]

You did you did.

I know I said I wasn't going to take up in these threads anymore, but my, I just watched one of the best Elvis specials i've seen called Elvis the last 24 hours and it was very good indeed. Sonny, you listen to him talk about how he was hurt the way it went down and see the tears in his eyes, and everyone else like Lamar Fike you can tell they all loved him and were his friend.

One thing I remember was when Colonel was on the phone with Joe, and joe was informing the Colonel that elvis had died. He (colonel) got off the phone and walked up to Lamar an inch from his face and said go back to memphis elvis is dead. Lamar said it hit him like a sledge hammer, and he said he looked at him, and said, listen, you know what, you finally ran him into the ground and colonel got mad and he said you know what im talking about, you kept workin him in the ground wouldn't let him up, Colonel said you need to leave and Lamar repled, yeah i'm going to leave to keep from knockin your **** teeth out".

Hat's off to Lamar for those who tend to bash on him!!(y)
I've seen "The Last 24 Hours" too. I never saw any tears except for Billy Smith. Lamar ,IMO, is just trying the CYA thing too. IF he was as concerned as he lets on, he could have challenged Parker before the death, not after !
No, he'll never be able to shake his connection to Goldman. IF that makes me a non-christian ,unforgiving person, so be it .

[Unchained Melody]

IF he was as concerned as he lets on, he could have challenged Parker before the death, not after !


Yeah so he could've got the boot and shown to the door, then he wouldn't be able to try and help elvis at all.im sorry but you nor I or anyone else for that matter can say if he or any other of the people around Elvis were concerned i'm sure they were but you can't expect them to baby Elvis he was 42 years old for crying out loud what could they do????? Geez, why must fans always in the Elvis World look for someone to blame for Elvis' problems...:blink::blink::blink:

[cameron]

Yeah so he could've got the boot and shown to the door, then he wouldn't be able to try and help elvis at all.im sorry but you nor I or anyone else for that matter can say if he or any other of the people around Elvis were concerned i'm sure they were but you can't expect them to baby Elvis he was 42 years old for crying out loud what could they do????? Geez, why must fans always in the Elvis World look for someone to blame for Elvis' problems...:blink::blink::blink:
I never look to blame anyone ; only that everyone needs to accept their own participation in the whole thing. I'm tired of it all being dumped on EP. They were there, they did the drugs and lived the life right along with him.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Hi Brad,

It Is possible that the MM were just as dependent as Elvis was and were trying to control their own demons as well as that of their BOSS! We should show them the compassion that the fans show Elvis.... why should there be two different sets of criteria for judging people, one for Elvis and a less tolerant one for the guys :doh:

I suppose the fact the certain quarters dump everything on the MM doesn't come into the equation. The way some tell it The MM pinned Elvis to the floor and shoved handfuls of pills down Elvis' neck :supriced:

The guys although flawed (some very flawed) were every bit as human as Elvis, I'm sure they have done things they are not proud of; Elvis was equally as flawed! I'm sure there are stories the guys could tell us that would completely blow our minds.

Quite why a small element of Elvis fans are so blinkered and unyielding is a complete mystery? These symptoms kind of remind me of some weird cult were they show blind faith to some faultless god who is unable to commit any wrong, whilst those around them are all to blame :blink: (twilight zone music)

I'm with you on this Brad, there is enough blame to share with all concerned around Elvis, Including Elvis himself. As for Lamar, well, I suppose the way he was treated by Elvis will be overlooked by some, however he doesn't endear himself either, so there is some scope to understand why he is disliked..... the Goldman thing being one of them :angry:

[cameron]

It might help IF the MM related their own sad lives with drugs, women etc. as well as Elvis' . One big difference I see , I visit Elvis sites not Memphis Mafia sites. Let them start their own. They can do and be anything their heart desires .I promise I won't visit them .;)
It gets very tiresome having to defend my opinions about Elvis just because others tell me I'm not a christian because I don't/can't/won't forgive the MM ! Who knew there was anything in Gods rules that makes that demand ?
No matter, that's between me and God, IMO. We talk a lot and at least HE listens. ;)

[Merry]

Someone turned to me and asked
"How many friends have you?"
Why 10 or 20 friends I believe
And began to named a few...

A blessed one you are
To have so many friends
But think of what you're saying...
A friend is just not someone
To whom you say "Hello"

A friend is a tender shoulder
On which to softly cry
A well to pour your troubles down
And raise your spirits high

A friend is a hand to pull you up
From darkness and despair...
When all your other "so called" friends
Have helped to put you there

A true friend is an ally
Who can't be moved or bought
A voice to keep your name alive
When others have forgot

But most of all a friend has a true heart
For from the hearts of friends
There comes the greatest love of all!

So think about all this
For every word is true
And once again answer please...
How many friends have you?

After much thought I answered
I really only have just one
"It's You!"

A Friend Is Always Special
Because Friends Love You
Just Because You're You!

-Author Unknown




;)

[cameron]

Someone turned to me and asked
"How many friends have you?"
Why 10 or 20 friends I believe
And began to named a few...

A blessed one you are
To have so many friends
But think of what you're saying...
A friend is just not someone
To whom you say "Hello"

A friend is a tender shoulder
On which to softly cry
A well to pour your troubles down
And raise your spirits high

A friend is a hand to pull you up
From darkness and despair...
When all your other "so called" friends
Have helped to put you there
A true friend is an ally
Who can't be moved or bought
A voice to keep your name alive
When others have forgot
But most of all a friend has a true heart
For from the hearts of friends
There comes the greatest love of all!

So think about all this
For every word is true
And once again answer please...
How many friends have you?

After much thought I answered
I really only have just one
"It's You!"
A Friend Is Always Special
Because Friends Love You
Just Because You're You!

-Author Unknown

;)



Amen !! ;)

[The King's Queen]

He's a pretty fart smeller huh Rosie????

:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:


I'm sure they knew - they were looking for someone to make them a million bucks!! They had something that they knew would be a hot item and they sold their friend out!! Sure hope Rosanne doesn't find a writer and tell how I jump out of bed and dance to Elvis!!!

AMEN to that Gail! (y)


He was certainly sick & tired of something!

Too bad he didn't get my memo to partake of some R & R at my place!

:hmm:Darn....he missed have missed my memo too!!! :supriced:;):lmfao::lmfao:


In my opinion...
EXACTLY, Insane. They sold their friend out BIGTIME! That is the bottom line!!!
All the excuses as to why are just b.s. They did what they did! They try to SMOOTH it over as if nothing is wrong with what they did to ELVIS. Being let go to find other work CANNOT in ANY stretch of the imagination be compared to to writing an EVIL book and airing every piece of dirty laundry they could find on a person they "say" they love FOR MONEY. The comparison of the two things that happened is just absolutely ridiculous.

Carole...I agree 1000%!!!! It is soooo easy to make excuses after the fact. But it has not, and WILL NOT change the fact of what they did! :mad: So much is being said about "forgiving and forgetting", and "Elvis would have done that", and "I can't be offended at them because they did nothing to me personally"....:doh::doh: Well, here's a newsflash: I find it sickening to think that they stuck like glue to the man, taking everything he would give them, and then felt that it was okay to air the dirty laundry AFTER they got pissed off...like they were trying to "help" him. :angry: If they wanted to help him, they should have said NO a few times! :mad: If they cared, they should have walked away instead of being fired! :blink: If he meant so much to them, their hearts would have ruled over their tempers and they would NOT have been able to have disclosed such personal things. How can anyone look at the situation and not see that these men were simply being vendictive???? :blink::mad:

And for what it's worth: Elvis may have done them wrong in ways...no one is saying that he was "perfect". But did Elvis drag it out in public for the whole world to read??? :blink: My point is this... Regardless of what transpired between them, they should not have done that. To me, it came across as them trying to seek vendication for being fired. They put sooo much in there in such great detail, that it appears that they had every intention of slandering Elvis in every possible way! IMO, they wanted to hurt him. And IMO, they succeeded! :angry: I don't need to forgive them...they need to be able to forgive themselves! ;)

[4THEHEART]

talkin' about forgiveness and unconditional love..here's a good example for these two, Elvis himself..
and some of his guys also a good example for something called vengeance..but for what!!?? God knows..for being able tho share his life?,or enduring Elvis jokes ?(aawwww pooor guys how sad)..or having opportunity of beating people?..or to be known and defended by Elvis fans after all these years?.. ha ha! this alone worths to work(suffer) for Elvis!! one more thing,not important though..having a friend like Elvis..

Cameron! do you really think MM needs another forum or site to be welcomed or defended like that??;)

[Unchained Melody]

Hi Brad,

It Is possible that the MM were just as dependent as Elvis was and were trying to control their own demons as well as that of their BOSS! We should show them the compassion that the fans show Elvis.... why should there be two different sets of criteria for judging people, one for Elvis and a less tolerant one for the guys :doh:

I suppose the fact the certain quarters dump everything on the MM doesn't come into the equation. The way some tell it The MM pinned Elvis to the floor and shoved handfuls of pills down Elvis' neck :supriced:

The guys although flawed (some very flawed) were every bit as human as Elvis, I'm sure they have done things they are not proud of; Elvis was equally as flawed! I'm sure there are stories the guys could tell us that would completely blow our minds.

Quite why a small element of Elvis fans are so blinkered and unyielding is a complete mystery? These symptoms kind of remind me of some weird cult were they show blind faith to some faultless god who is unable to commit any wrong, whilst those around them are all to blame :blink: (twilight zone music)

I'm with you on this Brad, there is enough blame to share with all concerned around Elvis, Including Elvis himself. As for Lamar, well, I suppose the way he was treated by Elvis will be overlooked by some, however he doesn't endear himself either, so there is some scope to understand why he is disliked..... the Goldman thing being one of them :angry:

Agreed Right with you Matt on this issue!!:notworthyVery well put!

[cameron]

talkin' about forgiveness and unconditional love..here's a good example for these two, Elvis himself..
and some of his guys also a good example for something called vengeance..but for what!!?? God knows..for being able tho share his life?,or enduring Elvis jokes ?(aawwww pooor guys how sad)..or having opportunity of beating people?..or to be known and defended by Elvis fans after all these years?.. ha ha! this alone worths to work(suffer) for Elvis!! one more thing,not important though..having a friend like Elvis..

Cameron! do you really think MM needs another forum or site to be welcomed or defended like that??;)
Probably not.. They seem to have enough fans here !;)
I was under the impression this was an Elvis site though.:doh:

[Unchained Melody]

[quote]
Probably not.. They seem to have enough fans here !;)
I was under the impression this was an Elvis site though.:doh:

Exactly it's an Elvis site and his boy's the Memphis Mafia were a big part of his life. He wanted them around him 24/7 365 ;) most of the time.... What is the point in hating them for something that went down so long ago, it don't change nothing, Elvis is still gone...reminds me of the 'ol saying forgive and forget :)

Cameron I will say you are very strong with your opinions and I love it !! You are certainly fun to debate with, always have a strong point of view which makes it very interesting and fun to hear what you think. Just wanted to say that as we tend to disagree on things in the EP world but in the end we are all here for the same reason and thats Elvis ! :)

[utmom2008]

Well, here's a newsflash: I find it sickening to think that they stuck like glue to the man, taking everything he would give them, and then felt that it was okay to air the dirty laundry AFTER they got pissed off...like they were trying to "help" him. :angry: If he meant so much to them, their hearts would have ruled over their tempers and they would NOT have been able to have disclosed such personal things. How can anyone look at the situation and not see that these men were simply being vendictive???? :blink::mad:

Along those same lines..this is something that I'm not real clear about.:doh: Alot of the fans are quick to say that's it's just fine and dandy that the MM chose to air all of Elvis' dirty laundry, right? Yet these same fans will absolutely bar-b-que Charlie Hodge for writing a book that ONLY dealt with the positive side of the situation. They are quick to say "don't waste your money on this one." Elvis is gone..he's not coming back, so the MM can't say they are airing his secrets to help him. They air his dirty laundry because they have enough sense to know that sex and scandal sells books. Pleasant little stories DO NOT.:notworthy:king::king::king:

[KPM]

If people were robots- we would not be having this discussion. Robots have no emotion (as of today) and no feelings to sway how they feel or think. But people do have feelings based on how they perceive lifes situations and the individuals involved. You can not help how you feel about someone-it happens. So if some do not like the Wests or Fike etc.....its their feelings they have the right to have them. If you do not dislike any of these guys, those are your feelings with the same right to have them. No reason to argue over why you should or should not feel as you do. We are not robots.

[Unchained Melody]

If people were robots- we would not be having this discussion. Robots have no emotion (as of today) and no feelings to sway how they feel or think. But people do have feelings based on how they perceive lifes situations and the individuals involved. You can not help how you feel about someone-it happens. So if some do not like the Wests or Fike etc.....its their feelings they have the right to have them. If you do not dislike any of these guys, those are your feelings with the same right to have them. No reason to argue over why you should or should not feel as you do. We are not robots.

Well put KPM (y)

This is an instance where we have to learn to agree to disagree I think ! :blush:

[cameron]

Originally Posted by The King's Queen

Well, here's a newsflash: I find it sickening to think that they stuck like glue to the man, taking everything he would give them, and then felt that it was okay to air the dirty laundry AFTER they got pissed off...like they were trying to "help" him. If he meant so much to them, their hearts would have ruled over their tempers and they would NOT have been able to have disclosed such personal things. How can anyone look at the situation and not see that these men were simply being vendictive????
Be careful woman, you'll have to rot in hell with me .:lol:





Along those same lines..this is something that I'm not real clear about.:doh: Alot of the fans are quick to say that's it's just fine and dandy that the MM chose to air all of Elvis' dirty laundry, right? Yet these same fans will absolutely bar-b-que Charlie Hodge for writing a book that ONLY dealt with the positive side of the situation. They are quick to say "don't waste your money on this one." Elvis is gone..he's not coming back, so the MM can't say they are airing his secrets to help him. They air his dirty laundry because they have enough sense to know that sex and scandal sells books. Pleasant little stories DO NOT.:notworthy:king::king::king:
That's the "real truth", Roseanne ,:notworthy

[4THEHEART]

sorry, no space left for both of you in hell Cameron.Hey! it's quite hot here..:P

[cameron]

sorry, no space left for both of you in hell Cameron.Hey! it's quite hot here..:P
I don't like HOT !! It's why I don't do Memphis in August. ;)
I must see about a very large A/C before then !! :lmfao:

[4THEHEART]

same here.. I don't like high degree's, yet reading the threads,I 'm beginning to believe that I'll go to hell :'( :lol:

[cameron]

same here.. I don't like high degree's, yet reading the threads,I 'm beginning to believe that I'll go to hell :'( :lol:
Possibly, we will know a lot of people there ! :P

[Donut]

[quote=cameron;214433]

Exactly it's an Elvis site and his boy's the Memphis Mafia were a big part of his life. He wanted them around him 24/7 365 ;) most of the time.... What is the point in hating them for something that went down so long ago, it don't change nothing, Elvis is still gone...reminds me of the 'ol saying forgive and forget :)

Cameron I will say you are very strong with your opinions and I love it !! You are certainly fun to debate with, always have a strong point of view which makes it very interesting and fun to hear what you think. Just wanted to say that as we tend to disagree on things in the EP world but in the end we are all here for the same reason and thats Elvis ! :)

Col I don´t know how old are you and hadn´t notice you around here untill a few days ago but I think you are giving people here a good lesson, me included and maybe older than you. Congratulations, really.

[4THEHEART]

I bet many, but Elvis.:supriced::supriced:..so let's try to be good Cameron,for the sake of seeing Elvis..:).

[Unchained Melody]

[quote=Col Jon Burrows;214437]

Col I don´t know how old are you and hadn´t notice you around here untill a few days ago but I think you are giving people here a good lesson, me included and maybe older than you. Congratulations, really.

Wow thank you so much.
I am just here for one reason and thats Elvis keeping his memory alive :)
I'm 18 by the way (y)
Again thank you for the kind words. I just love expressing my opinion and listening to what everyone else has to think of certain things. The more opinions you get the better you can come up with what you think is true or not...:notworthy

[Donut]

[quote=Donut;214520]

I just love expressing my opinion and listening to what everyone else has to think of certain things.

That´s exactly what I meant, not an easy thing to do. ;)

[Unchained Melody]

[quote=Col Jon Burrows;214524]

That´s exactly what I meant, not an easy thing to do. ;)

That is very true i've noticed :lol:;)(y)

[KPM]

[quote=Donut;214527]

That is very true i've noticed :lol:;)(y)
Were you gone for a while? I noticed you have over 2400 posts, but I also do not recall you till just recently.

[utmom2008]

[QUOTE=Col Jon Burrows;214530]
Were you gone for a while? I noticed you have over 2400 posts, but I also do not recall you till just recently.

:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:
That's EXACTLY what I wanted to know as well.:hmm::hmm::hmm:

[MojoElvis]

I don't hold a grudge against them. That was a really messed up time in their lives and Elvis'. Marty Lacker said that they weren't suppose to have been fired. It was supposed to be temporary to teach them a lesson about the lawsuits they were getting for beating up the fans. Other than that, people did buy the book so if people should have a grudge, it probably should be at themselves or the public that paid for it.

Let's face it, Elvis became even more interesting after that book came out. That book lead the way to common Rock & Roll documentary story lines like, Buddy Holly, Jim Morrison, Ray Charles, Johnny Cash and yes even, Dewey Cox...lol

[SweetCaroline]

I don't hold a grudge against them. That was a really messed up time in their lives and Elvis'. Marty Lacker said that they weren't suppose to have been fired. It was supposed to be temporary to teach them a lesson about the lawsuits they were getting for beating up the fans. Other than that, people did buy the book so if people should have a grudge, it probably should be at themselves or the public that paid for it.

Let's face it, Elvis became even more interesting after that book came out. That book lead the way to common Rock & Roll documentary story lines like, Buddy Holly, Jim Morrison, Ray Charles, Johnny Cash and yes even, Dewey Cox...lol


You can't be serious. :blink: Let me see if I understand correctly....You are saying it is the public's fault...not the friends who betrayed and destroyed their friend's reputation, and already fragile psyche by writing that piece of trash, and breaking every bond and trust between them. :doh: They have already made enough EXCUSES for themselves...lets not be making up more for them. :mad: (n)(n)(n)

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Why do some fans act as if the only people to do any wrong in this saga is the MM? Yes they wrote a book because they had been treated badly... The shouldn't have written the book and my guess is if the could turn back the clock the would.

WHERE IS THE FORGIVENESS, the fans haven't been wronged Elvis HAD.

[utmom2008]

Why do some fans act as if the only people to do any wrong in this saga is the MM? Yes they wrote a book because they had been treated badly... The shouldn't have written the book and my guess is if the could turn back the clock the would.

WHERE IS THE FORGIVENESS, the fans haven't been wronged Elvis HAD.

I think you might begin to see some forgiveness if the 3 guys, mainly Red & Sonny, showed any signs of being sorry for writing the book. The fans would like to hear them say that they wish they could turn back the clock...if they would admit they were ticked off and hoping to get back at him. If they really feel like that...then it's time for them to speak up.:blink:;);):blush:

[SweetCaroline]

Why do some fans act as if the only people to do any wrong in this saga is the MM? Yes they wrote a book because they had been treated badly... The shouldn't have written the book and my guess is if the could turn back the clock the would.

WHERE IS THE FORGIVENESS, the fans haven't been wronged Elvis HAD.


IMO
How in the devil were they treated BADLY.:blink: Their employer/friend let them go from employment. It happens every day of the week in this country and other countries. People don't seek out to get revenge on their employer for dismisal to go find a job elsewhere. How can being let go to find another job... in any way, shape, or form be equivalent to destroying a man's reputation. :angry: You can find another job....a REPUTATION is something you can NEVER get back once it has been destroyed! Too many fans have been swallowed up in the MM measly excuses for what they did.

[Donut]

I think you might begin to see some forgiveness if the 3 guys, mainly Red & Sonny, showed any signs of being sorry for writing the book. The fans would like to hear them say that they wish they could turn back the clock...if they would admit they were ticked off and hoping to get back at him. If they really feel like that...then it's time for them to speak up.:blink:;);):blush:

Be careful what you wish for, LOL.

"SJ- If Elvis were here now, what would you say to him?
Sonny West- I´d say, Elvis, I hope you understand why we did what we did. It was an act of love, we were trying to help you and save your life. But it didn´t work and I´m sorry that we failed you..."

http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/interview_sonny_west.shtml

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

IMO
How in the devil were they treated BADLY.:blink: Their employer/friend let them go from employment. It happens every day of the week in this country and other countries. People don't seek out to get revenge on their employer for dismisal to go find a job elsewhere. How can being let go to find another job... in any way, shape, or form be equivalent to destroying a man's reputation. :angry: You can find another job....a REPUTATION is something you can NEVER get back once it has been destroyed! Too many fans have been swallowed up in the MM measly excuses for what they did.

OMG :supriced: how blinkered and one sided.... you do realize that Elvis let his father sack these guys, Elvis skipped town!! How on earth you can treat someone in this way after 20 years of service! You are talking about these guys in a conventional working relationship in a supermarket! Their relationship with Elvis was much more than employer and employee.

You discuss these guys as close friends who shouldn't have done an exposé about their friend; by the same token surely Elvis should have had the common courtesy to be up front with his friends. These were the same guys who would have jumped in front of a bullet for Elvis.

**** right these guys were Pissed at Elvis, a weeks pay after 20 years.... I'm sure you will say Elvis didn't owe them anything! Again you demand loyalty from the West's but not Elvis? A friendship is a two way thing.
IMO Elvis could have avoided this situation (EWH) by re-establishing the friendship he had with the guys, this doesn't necessitate re-employment.

If you listen to the phone call with Red, Elvis is very conciliatory, if he knew he wasn't in part to blame for the way things turned out he wouldn't have offered to help Red. In fact Elvis excuses his behavior with saying there was a lot going on in his life at the time.

The comment that these guys destroyed Elvis' reputation is just not true, Elvis had contributed to his own demise by appearing in public in less than peak condition. The press was already making comments about shows and his health in 1974-77. the only reason EWH was a sensation was because Elvis' lifestyle was confirmed by the MM.

I feel sorry for ALL concerned; Errors in judgment were made by ALL concerned. As I have commented earlier, no-one has come out of this well.

The difference between me and others is that I am will to look at this issue from both sides impartially and more importantly be able to give these guys a second chance, after all they are not responsible for 'Global Warming'.

[cameron]

Be careful what you wish for, LOL.

"SJ- If Elvis were here now, what would you say to him?
Sonny West- I´d say, Elvis, I hope you understand why we did what we did. It was an act of love, we were trying to help you and save your life. But it didn´t work and I´m sorry that we failed you..."http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/interview_sonny_west.shtml

Not exactly, "I'm sorry for exposing all your dirty little secrets to make money " .But, I''ll accept that they failed him-- miserably.
What a crock !

[TotallyInsane]

Not exactly, "I'm sorry for exposing all your dirty little secrets to make money " .But, I''ll accept that they failed him-- miserably.
What a crock !

Right there with ya!!!

[4THEHEART]

it seems everyone seeks for some kinda punishment for Elvis these days..what a bad guy he must've been..for God's sake, people blame and hate and suit the famous names, not their guards for being treated badly..they sure harmed his image and well deserved their name (MM)by using unneccessary violence and being rude..I have to repeat again..his father fired them yes.. cause it was not what Elvis wish and sure it wouldn't be forever..Elvis couldn't hate.. people like him, don't need to feel guilty to offer help..as for he had a lot going in his life at the time,well wasn't that true?..IMO,that book was just an ugly rush for revenge,nothing more..

[Lisarose]

Wow, great points all around. Before I go on - Zey - FABULOUS Avatar! What is your medium? I am so totally enamored of your style and work.

For me, Elvis is in the same category as my children, DON’T say anything bad about him or I become very defensive. Sure, he was "just" a man - he made mistakes and bad decisions in his life - who hasn't :doh:. BUT, there were times in my life when just thinking of Elvis kept me going. There is an Elvis song for every mood and every situation that life can throw at a person. I just hear the beginning chords of most of his songs and I'm immediately taken to a specific time & place. This man came from "nothing" - he IS the definition of the American Dream. I don’t care if you are the new kid on the block or his ex-best friend - DON’T say anything bad about someone I love so much. AND I don’t care that I was not his personal confidant or never met him, the fact that he is still loved by so many just proves to me just how special he was and is. I've said it before - it may not be fair - but I do forgive Elvis things that I would not be so forgiving of from anyone else. :king:

And another thing - just what is Goldman's problem? I didn't buy his book, read some passages from a book in the library and promptly reshelved IT

[Merry]

Wow, great points all around. Before I go on - Zey - FABULOUS Avatar! What is your medium? I am so totally enamored of your style and work.

For me, Elvis is in the same category as my children, DON’T say anything bad about him or I become very defensive. Sure, he was "just" a man - he made mistakes and bad decisions in his life - who hasn't :doh:. BUT, there were times in my life when just thinking of Elvis kept me going. There is an Elvis song for every mood and every situation that life can throw at a person. I just hear the beginning chords of most of his songs and I'm immediately taken to a specific time & place. This man came from "nothing" - he IS the definition of the American Dream. I don’t care if you are the new kid on the block or his ex-best friend - DON’T say anything bad about someone I love so much. AND I don’t care that I was not his personal confidant or never met him, the fact that he is still loved by so many just proves to me just how special he was and is. I've said it before - it may not be fair - but I do forgive Elvis things that I would not be so forgiving of from anyone else. :king:

And another thing - just what is Goldman's problem? I didn't buy his book, read some passages from a book in the library and promptly reshelved IT



Well said, Lisa.

Hugs.

Goldman? He was a jealous, nasty, little man.

[4THEHEART]

very kind of you Lisarose,thanks..:blush:my mediums are,charcoal and pencils for drawing,oil colour on canvas,and fabric paint on t-shirts..
but even more thanks for defending this gentle soul called Elvis..what he left behind, shows that his mission was about love and spreading happiness..whatever he needed and wanted for himself,he shared the same with as many people as possible,in his short life..who can expect more than what he gave and left us all, from an ordinary human being,so what all this jazz is about?..people should celebrate their years which were spent with Elvis as his friends, than complaining around.Some give,some take..how happy to the ones who give..

[SweetCaroline]

OMG :supriced: how blinkered and one sided.... you do realize that Elvis let his father sack these guys, Elvis skipped town!! How on earth you can treat someone in this way after 20 years of service! You are talking about these guys in a conventional working relationship in a supermarket! Their relationship with Elvis was much more than employer and employee.

You discuss these guys as close friends who shouldn't have done an exposé about their friend; by the same token surely Elvis should have had the common courtesy to be up front with his friends. These were the same guys who would have jumped in front of a bullet for Elvis.

**** right these guys were Pissed at Elvis, a weeks pay after 20 years.... I'm sure you will say Elvis didn't owe them anything! Again you demand loyalty from the West's but not Elvis? A friendship is a two way thing.
IMO Elvis could have avoided this situation (EWH) by re-establishing the friendship he had with the guys, this doesn't necessitate re-employment.

If you listen to the phone call with Red, Elvis is very conciliatory, if he knew he wasn't in part to blame for the way things turned out he wouldn't have offered to help Red. In fact Elvis excuses his behavior with saying there was a lot going on in his life at the time.

The comment that these guys destroyed Elvis' reputation is just not true, Elvis had contributed to his own demise by appearing in public in less than peak condition. The press was already making comments about shows and his health in 1974-77. the only reason EWH was a sensation was because Elvis' lifestyle was confirmed by the MM.

I feel sorry for ALL concerned; Errors in judgment were made by ALL concerned. As I have commented earlier, no-one has come out of this well.

The difference between me and others is that I am will to look at this issue from both sides impartially and more importantly be able to give these guys a second chance, after all they are not responsible for 'Global Warming'.

Do I realize Elvis let Vernon let these men go, JJ??? Yeah, I happened to LIVE through those times. I was thirty when Elvis passed and had been a fan following ELVIS' life and career CLOSELY for 21 years in 1977. Yes, I am well aware they were SACKED. Yes, I am WELL AWARE of what their jobs title entailed. I don't need a young fan to tell me the details and "enlighten" me. :mad:

My feelings about it are SO BLINKIN' WHAT they were let go!!! ELVIS had given them a paycheck and taken care of them and their families for many years!!! :angry::angry::angry: GET another blinkin' JOB!!! While their being let go was an unfortunate event in their lives....it was NO WAY on the same playing field as telling millions of people/fans around the world EVERY **** secret you EVER shared as friends and every private moment of your life!!!!!!!!!!!! and absolutely DESTROYING YOU. :angry::angry::angry: That you can you and some others even THINK that is on the same playing field blows my mind.:blink:

Yes, I read EVERY WORD of Red West's tape. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck in the Elvis world as the old saying goes!!! I read as Red lied like **** to his "dear friend" that the book would only be about the good things.... and good times!!!!!!!!!! :angry::angry::angry:

JJ we will absolutely unequivocally NEVER ever agree about this particular subject because we OBVIOUSLY have VERY DIFFERENT moral values. It has nothing to do with not looking at both sides. I have looked at both sides!!!:mad:

Finding excuses for what the MM did... which was BETRAYAL of the worst kind...there is nothing ....absoluely nothing worse except MURDER. Should they have been angry they were let go? Yes, angry is fine and probably normal. WRITING THAT EVIL VINDICTIVE book :angry: was not fine......it was absolutely WRONG!(n)(n)(n)

How in the world can fans make excuses for the kind of BETRAYAL these "friends" bestowed upon ELVIS??????????? I can't even tell you how sickening I find making excuses for those men to write their evil, nasty, vindictive book to be. I just will never understand those that defend it!!! :doh:

[Tony Trout]

OMG :supriced: how blinkered and one sided.... you do realize that Elvis let his father sack these guys, Elvis skipped town!! How on earth you can treat someone in this way after 20 years of service! You are talking about these guys in a conventional working relationship in a supermarket! Their relationship with Elvis was much more than employer and employee.

You discuss these guys as close friends who shouldn't have done an exposé about their friend; by the same token surely Elvis should have had the common courtesy to be up front with his friends. These were the same guys who would have jumped in front of a bullet for Elvis.

**** right these guys were Pissed at Elvis, a weeks pay after 20 years.... I'm sure you will say Elvis didn't owe them anything! Again you demand loyalty from the West's but not Elvis? A friendship is a two way thing.
IMO Elvis could have avoided this situation (EWH) by re-establishing the friendship he had with the guys, this doesn't necessitate re-employment.

If you listen to the phone call with Red, Elvis is very conciliatory, if he knew he wasn't in part to blame for the way things turned out he wouldn't have offered to help Red. In fact Elvis excuses his behavior with saying there was a lot going on in his life at the time.

The comment that these guys destroyed Elvis' reputation is just not true, Elvis had contributed to his own demise by appearing in public in less than peak condition. The press was already making comments about shows and his health in 1974-77. the only reason EWH was a sensation was because Elvis' lifestyle was confirmed by the MM.

I feel sorry for ALL concerned; Errors in judgment were made by ALL concerned. As I have commented earlier, no-one has come out of this well.

The difference between me and others is that I am will to look at this issue from both sides impartially and more importantly be able to give these guys a second chance, after all they are not responsible for 'Global Warming'.



Agreed, Matt!





Ya'll, once again, seem to be forgetting one simple thing here:


THE WEST'S DID NOT, TECHNICALLY, WRITE THE BOOK! Steve Dunleavy wrote the book!! How hard is that to understand? What he put in there and embellished upon was absolutely something totally different from what Red and Sonny and Dave wanted in the book.

[cameron]

Do I realize Elvis let Vernon let these men go, JJ??? Yeah, I happened to LIVE through those times. I was thirty when Elvis passed and had been a fan following ELVIS' life and career CLOSELY for 21 years in 1977. Yes, I am well aware they were SACKED. Yes, I am WELL AWARE of what their jobs title entailed. I don't need a young fan to tell me the details and "enlighten" me. :mad:

My feelings about it are SO BLINKIN' WHAT they were let go!!! ELVIS had given them a paycheck and taken care of them and their families for many years!!! :angry::angry::angry: GET another blinkin' JOB!!! While their being let go was an unfortunate event in their lives....it was NO WAY on the same playing field as telling millions of people/fans around the world EVERY **** secret you EVER shared as friends and every private moment of your life!!!!!!!!!!!! and absolutely DESTROYING YOU. :angry::angry::angry: That you can you and some others even THINK that is on the same playing field blows my mind.:blink:

Yes, I read EVERY WORD of Red West's tape. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck in the Elvis world as the old saying goes!!! I read as Red lied like **** to his "dear friend" that the book would only be about the good things.... and good times!!!!!!!!!! :angry::angry::angry:

JJ we will absolutely unequivocally NEVER ever agree about this particular subject because we OBVIOUSLY have VERY DIFFERENT moral values. It has nothing to do with not looking at both sides. I have looked at both sides!!!:mad:

Finding excuses for what the MM did... which was BETRAYAL of the worst kind...there is nothing ....absoluely nothing worse except MURDER. Should they have been angry they were let go? Yes, angry is fine and probably normal. WRITING THAT EVIL VINDICTIVE book :angry: was not fine......it was absolutely WRONG!(n)(n)(n)

How in the world can fans make excuses for the kind of BETRAYAL these "friends" bestowed upon ELVIS??????????? I can't even tell you how sickening I find making excuses for those men to write their evil, nasty, vindictive book to be. I just will never understand those that defend it!!! :doh:



I guess we come from a different "era" The Elvis Era. ;)
I think I like that world much better than today. Where I came from you never betray a friend nor their confidence. IF you do; no one ever forgets .
Thanks, but I'll stick to my values not dictated by the MM .
Very well said .(y)

[cameron]

Agreed, Matt!





Ya'll, once again, seem to be forgetting one simple thing here:


THE WEST'S DID NOT, TECHNICALLY, WRITE THE BOOK! Steve Dunleavy wrote the book!! How hard is that to understand? What he put in there and embellished upon was absolutely something totally different from what Red and Sonny and Dave wanted in the book.

Now, who wears the "rose colored glasses"? :blink: :P

[Donut]

"SJ- If Elvis were here now, what would you say to him?
Sonny West- I´d say, Elvis, I hope you understand why we did what we did. It was an act of love, we were trying to help you and save your life. But it didn´t work and I´m sorry that we failed you..."

http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/interview_sonny_west.shtml


Not exactly, "I'm sorry for exposing all your dirty little secrets to make money " .But, I''ll accept that they failed him-- miserably.
What a crock !

I knew this was coming :doh:
I don´t care if fans forgive Sonny or not, personally i don´t have to forgive him for anything but i believe people can regret their mistakes, and say i´m sorry is always a good thing to do when you know what you did was not right.

[Donut]

Finding excuses for what the MM did... which was BETRAYAL of the worst kind...there is nothing ....absoluely nothing worse except MURDER.

Whoa... this is becoming worse than a Priscilla´s thread :lol:

[Getlo]

Let's face it, Elvis became even more interesting after that book came out.

Have to agree here. Elvis' demise is one of the most interesting aspects of his life.


You can't be serious. :blink: Let me see if I understand correctly....You are saying it is the public's fault...not the friends who betrayed and destroyed their friend's reputation, and already fragile psyche by writing that piece of trash

Why was the book trash? Was it just because you refuse to believe what was in it? Putting aside the reasons/motivations for writing it (none of which we know for sure, by the way!) ... what made it trashy? Tell us the lies and untruths in the book.


IMO
How in the devil were they treated BADLY.:blink: Their employer/friend let them go from employment. Too many fans have been swallowed up in the MM measly excuses for what they did.

Elvis was a coward when it came to the firing, plain and simple. It should have been handled better in the first instance. Perhaps then, the book may not have been written (and no, this does not excuse the boys, nor am I aportioning any blame to Elvis for the boys choosing to write the book).


Elvis couldn't hate

You must be kidding. Two words for you here: Mike Stone. Elvis hated him. To say Elvis couldn't hate is way off the mark. Elvis, like all of us, was capable of that emotion. Everyone hates something or someone at one stage or another!


JJ we will absolutely unequivocally NEVER ever agree about this particular subject because we OBVIOUSLY have VERY DIFFERENT moral values.

You mean you consider your "moral values" (WTH does that mean anyway?) higher than JJ's, don't you? You criticise the MM for judging Elvis and spewing bile ... yet here you are doing exactly the same thing. You can't have it both ways.


BETRAYAL of the worst kind...there is nothing ....absoluely nothing worse except MURDER.

Oh, I don't know. Let's see. How about rape, physical abuse of women, pedophilia, cruelty to animals, burglary, dealing drugs to kids, battery, wrongful imprisonment, torture etc etc. Nothing worse except murder?! You seriously rate betraying friends as the second-worst thing a person can do? Ridiculous!

[utmom2008]

Ya'll, once again, seem to be forgetting one simple thing here:


THE WEST'S DID NOT, TECHNICALLY, WRITE THE BOOK! Steve Dunleavy wrote the book!! How hard is that to understand? What he put in there and embellished upon was absolutely something totally different from what Red and Sonny and Dave wanted in the book.

BUT........who gave them the information to begin with? Who gave them the stories to "embelish"? This was not a fiction story. The way they want to act blameless for the story being embellished upon is disgusting..IMO. I would love to put them on Oprah and let her loose on them the way she let loose on James Frey for his embellishment.;);):mad:

[utmom2008]

people can regret their mistakes, and say i´m sorry is always a good thing to do when you know what you did was not right.

Saying "I'm sorry" is a wonderful thing....................when you actually mean it.;););)

[Getlo]

BUT........Who gave them the stories to "embelish"?

What embellishments were contained in What Happened?

[utmom2008]

You must be kidding. Two words for you here: Mike Stone. Elvis hated him. To say Elvis couldn't hate is way off the mark. Elvis, like all of us, was capable of that emotion. Everyone hates something or someone at one stage or another!

Getlo is right....Elvis hated Mike stone, probably until the day he died.:blink::blush: He is right on the 2nd comment as well....if you don't belive him, take about 5 minutes and read some of the posts that come from here at TCB World.:lol::lol:

[TotallyInsane]

What embellishments were contained in What Happened?

You are a joke!!!!

[TotallyInsane]

Do I realize Elvis let Vernon let these men go, JJ??? Yeah, I happened to LIVE through those times. I was thirty when Elvis passed and had been a fan following ELVIS' life and career CLOSELY for 21 years in 1977. Yes, I am well aware they were SACKED. Yes, I am WELL AWARE of what their jobs title entailed. I don't need a young fan to tell me the details and "enlighten" me. :mad:

My feelings about it are SO BLINKIN' WHAT they were let go!!! ELVIS had given them a paycheck and taken care of them and their families for many years!!! :angry::angry::angry: GET another blinkin' JOB!!! While their being let go was an unfortunate event in their lives....it was NO WAY on the same playing field as telling millions of people/fans around the world EVERY **** secret you EVER shared as friends and every private moment of your life!!!!!!!!!!!! and absolutely DESTROYING YOU. :angry::angry::angry: That you can you and some others even THINK that is on the same playing field blows my mind.:blink:

Yes, I read EVERY WORD of Red West's tape. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck in the Elvis world as the old saying goes!!! I read as Red lied like **** to his "dear friend" that the book would only be about the good things.... and good times!!!!!!!!!! :angry::angry::angry:

JJ we will absolutely unequivocally NEVER ever agree about this particular subject because we OBVIOUSLY have VERY DIFFERENT moral values. It has nothing to do with not looking at both sides. I have looked at both sides!!!:mad:

Finding excuses for what the MM did... which was BETRAYAL of the worst kind...there is nothing ....absoluely nothing worse except MURDER. Should they have been angry they were let go? Yes, angry is fine and probably normal. WRITING THAT EVIL VINDICTIVE book :angry: was not fine......it was absolutely WRONG!(n)(n)(n)

How in the world can fans make excuses for the kind of BETRAYAL these "friends" bestowed upon ELVIS??????????? I can't even tell you how sickening I find making excuses for those men to write their evil, nasty, vindictive book to be. I just will never understand those that defend it!!! :doh:



Written by a true fan who knows what the score was then and now!!!

[utmom2008]

THE WEST'S DID NOT, TECHNICALLY, WRITE THE BOOK!Steve Dunleavy wrote the book!! How hard is that to understand? What he put in there and embellished upon was absolutely something totally different from what Red and Sonny and Dave wanted in the book.


What embellishments were contained in What Happened?

I guess that's my question for Mister T. He says that Dunleavy "embellished" what info Sonny and Red gave him.

[Getlo]

You are a joke!!!!

Okay, then ... do please share your answer to the question I asked another poster.

What embellishments were contained in What Happened?

Care to take the time to answer? You sound as if you're about to have a heart attack. :rolleyes:

[TotallyInsane]

I'm sure if I did have a heart attack it would be because of the drugs I have in my system according to you!!!

And, sorry but you can't see my chalkboard to draw you a picture to answer your dumbass question!

[Getlo]

I'm sure if I did have a heart attack it would be because of the drugs I have in my system according to you!!!

Hmm, right. Coz Elvis' heart attack had nothing to do with drugs of course! Right?


And, sorry but you can't see my chalkboard to draw you a picture to answer your dumbass question!

So, you didn't read What Happened then?

If you think I'm a "joke" for asking about the supposed embellishments in the book, why don't you take the time to answer the question. Could it be because you've not read the book, I wonder.

[TotallyInsane]

For your information - I READ THE BOOK SITTING ON THE CURB AT HIS FUNERAL!!!

[Getlo]

For your information - I READ THE BOOK SITTING ON THE CURB AT HIS FUNERAL!!!

Sounds like fun.

And I don't believe you.

Well, if you've read it, tell us about what you consider the embellishments?

[TotallyInsane]

Well tough titty!! But, is it you don't believe I read the book or I was at his funeral????

[utmom2008]

Ya'll, once again, seem to be forgetting one simple thing here:


THE WEST'S DID NOT, TECHNICALLY, WRITE THE BOOK! Steve Dunleavy wrote the book!! How hard is that to understand? What he put in there and embellished upon was absolutely something totally different from what Red and Sonny and Dave wanted in the book.

Tony??? Tony, can you hear me??? What did Dunleavy embellish in EWH??:supriced::supriced::supriced: Hurry please...we need some answers!:blink:

[TotallyInsane]

Sounds like fun.

And I don't believe you.

Well, if you've read it, tell us about what you consider the embellishments?

Why you put "I don't believe you in small letters" - you whispering or what???

[utmom2008]

And I don't believe you.



Getlo.....she was at the funeral. I know this for a fact.....She also viewed the body..twice.

[Getlo]

Well tough titty!! But, is it you don't believe I read the book or I was at his funeral????

I was referring to the book.

If you had read it, or you really believed in the courage of your convictions, you'd take the time to list what you saw as the book's "embellishments". You know, to keep the thread about the Wests going. But you keep avoiding it.

So I don't believe you read the book, no.

And I neither know nor care if you went to the funeral. Good for you if you did. More power to ya, an' all that.

[Getlo]

Getlo.....she was at the funeral. I know this for a fact.....She also viewed the body..twice.

Let me guess ... she thinks it was a wax dummy, eh?

[TotallyInsane]

I was referring to the book.

If you had read it, or you really believed in the courage of your convictions, you'd take the time to list what you saw as the book's "embellishments". You know, to keep the thread about the Wests going. But you keep avoiding it.

So I don't believe you read the book, no.

And I neither know nor care if you went to the funeral. Good for you if you did. More power to ya, an' all that.

You're looking a little green there Getlo!

[Getlo]

You're looking a little green there Getlo!

Jealous of your attending the funeral? Quite the contrary.

I couldn't give a rat's either way.

And you're still avoiding the question about embellishments ...

[cameron]

You're looking a little green there Getlo!

I've always thought these kind of actions was pure envy and jealousy .
Same as with the MM .

[Donut]

Saying "I'm sorry" is a wonderful thing....................when you actually mean it.;););)

I´m not in a position to comfirm he said it from the heart or not but seeing how things turned out my guess is he must be sorry.

That said i´m going to see if i can find any hidden message in "Teddy Bear" playing it high speed.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Do I realize Elvis let Vernon let these men go, JJ??? Yeah, I happened to LIVE through those times. I was thirty when Elvis passed and had been a fan following ELVIS' life and career CLOSELY for 21 years in 1977. Yes, I am well aware they were SACKED. Yes, I am WELL AWARE of what their jobs title entailed. I don't need a young fan to tell me the details and "enlighten" me. :mad:

My feelings about it are SO BLINKIN' WHAT they were let go!!! ELVIS had given them a paycheck and taken care of them and their families for many years!!! :angry::angry::angry: GET another blinkin' JOB!!! While their being let go was an unfortunate event in their lives....it was NO WAY on the same playing field as telling millions of people/fans around the world EVERY **** secret you EVER shared as friends and every private moment of your life!!!!!!!!!!!! and absolutely DESTROYING YOU. :angry::angry::angry: That you can you and some others even THINK that is on the same playing field blows my mind.:blink:

Yes, I read EVERY WORD of Red West's tape. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck in the Elvis world as the old saying goes!!! I read as Red lied like **** to his "dear friend" that the book would only be about the good things.... and good times!!!!!!!!!! :angry::angry::angry:

JJ we will absolutely unequivocally NEVER ever agree about this particular subject because we OBVIOUSLY have VERY DIFFERENT moral values. It has nothing to do with not looking at both sides. I have looked at both sides!!!:mad:

Finding excuses for what the MM did... which was BETRAYAL of the worst kind...there is nothing ....absoluely nothing worse except MURDER. Should they have been angry they were let go? Yes, angry is fine and probably normal. WRITING THAT EVIL VINDICTIVE book :angry: was not fine......it was absolutely WRONG!(n)(n)(n)

How in the world can fans make excuses for the kind of BETRAYAL these "friends" bestowed upon ELVIS??????????? I can't even tell you how sickening I find making excuses for those men to write their evil, nasty, vindictive book to be. I just will never understand those that defend it!!! :doh:



I find your irate response puzzling, I don’t recall saying what the MM did was a good thing. I certainly didn't say what they did didn't affect Elvis because I believe it did. What I did was look at the reasoning behind why Red & Sonny contributed to EWH.

You dismiss the way Elvis treated these guys with unjustified ease. You talk passionately about what they did to Elvis, how they betrayed him etc… Where is the balance?

Again we find an older fan using age as if being a younger fan doesn't enable me to be able to use deductive reasoning and piece together well documented events! You (like others on here) attack the person rather than the argument. Age has absolutely no bearing on this subject other than being used as a tool to try and undermine younger fans.


I guess we come from a different "era" The Elvis Era. ;)
I think I like that world much better than today. Where I came from you never betray a friend nor their confidence. IF you do; no one ever forgets .
Thanks, but I'll stick to my values not dictated by the MM .
Very well said .(y)

Typical elitist & divisive response.


Now, who wears the "rose colored glasses"? :blink:

Quite cleary YOU!

[cameron]

You and others defend the MM, say we wear "rose colored glasses" because we defend Elvis. It works the same way.Too bad you can't see that.

Big thing I see, this is an Elvis site, most of us are here for Elvis not the MM.
I've never seen a moderator get involved in such petty stuff either .:blink:[
So, that makes you right and everyone else wrong??? Now that's elitist .IMO.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

You and others defend the MM, say we wear "rose colored glasses" because we defend Elvis. It works the same way.Too bad you can't see that.

The difference that you either can't see or are unwilling to see is, I defend BOTH sides


Big thing I see, this is an Elvis site, most of us are here for Elvis not the MM.
I've never seen a moderator get involved in such petty stuff either .:blink:[
So, that makes you right and everyone else wrong??? Now that's elitist .IMO.


I'll be open and honest with you, having been involved in this and other threads recently I have found it a real eye opener on how those who are accused of sarcasm are baited and badly treated by others who claim to be the innocent parties.... Perhaps I should report those responsible instead of letting 'adults' have a frank and open discussion which you have let spiral into 'petty stuff'.

My moderator status does not exclude me from participating in a debate, I have just as much right to comment on ANY subject. I have never used my position to overrule anybody, I do not edit/delete posts that go against my position or use a whole host of other moderator tools. Frankly I'm disappointed that you have stooped so low to score a point!

[4THEHEART]

Originally Posted by Getlo http://www.tcb-world.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread.php?p=215190#post215190)
You must be kidding. Two words for you here: Mike Stone. Elvis hated him. To say Elvis couldn't hate is way off the mark. Elvis, like all of us, was capable of that emotion. Everyone hates something or someone at one stage or another!http://www.tcb-world.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread.php?p=215190#post215190)

people with quick temper causes a scene I accept.. I know cause I have that temper which I'm not proud of.But it is off only in seconds..one can swear,shout and tell a lot in times like this, but hate is a long term action or feeling ,it's even continues,I hate some politicians and that's forever:lmfao:..anyway,history would've been different about Mike Stone if Elvis's feeling was real hate,and I'm sure there were and are some celebrities that wouldn't have left that Stone so healthy;)..now please don't tell me that he was going to get him killed story..as I said it was anger and something anyone can say easily in a moment like this..I guess you think the MM was reasonable people and they saved Stone's life..:lol:now that's ridiculous to tell so.. it was Elvis who could see or judge things thoroughly and sure he knew that affair wasn't one sided..he had a sense of justice more than you think Getlo..but this wasn't written in some fans Bible, called EWH,so let's don't believe it..is that so?

[The King's Queen]

Question: Why have other threads been closed for less than this????

[utmom2008]

Frankly I'm disappointed that you have stooped so low to score a point!

I didn't know we were keeping score?:doh::doh:


Question: Why have other threads been closed for less than this????

GREAT question!(y)(y)(y)


I guess you think the MM was reasonable people and they saved Stone's life..:lol:now that's ridiculous to tell so.. it was Elvis who could see or judge things thoroughly and sure he knew that affair wasn't one sided..he had a sense of justice more than you think Getlo..but this wasn't written in some fans Bible, called EWH,so let's don't believe it..is that so?

(y)(y)(y)(y)

[Getlo]

it was Elvis who could see or judge things thoroughly and sure he knew that affair wasn't one sided..he had a sense of justice more than you think Getlo..but this wasn't written in some fans Bible, called EWH,so let's don't believe it..is that so?

In the case of backing out of the Stone "killing", had Elvis had access to Stone and a gun right there and then, I am convinced he would've killed him on the spot.

I don't think the MM talked him out of it, per se ... but they calmed him down enough so that he himself could back out of it.

I believe Elvis hated Stone until the day he died.

So, yes, Elvis was capable of hate. To say otherwise would mean he wasn't human. And "Elvis was only human" has been written here about 805,000 times!

[utmom2008]

The difference that you either can't see or are unwilling to see is, I defend BOTH sides

I am honestly trying to see that, but I'm having a tough time finding it.:blush:





I'll be open and honest with you, having been involved in this and other threads recently I have found it a real eye opener on how those who are accused of sarcasm are baited and badly treated by others who claim to be the innocent parties....

I'm lost on that one.:blink::blink::supriced::doh::hmm::blink:


My moderator status does not exclude me from participating in a debate, I have just as much right to comment on ANY subject. I have never used my position to overrule anybody, I do not edit/delete posts that go against my position or use a whole host of other moderator tools.
Is anyone going to explain to all the members what happened to the philosophical debate thread that has vanished?:blink::blink:

[4THEHEART]

In the case of backing out of the Stone "killing", had Elvis had access to Stone and a gun right there and then, I am convinced he would've killed him on the spot.

I don't think the MM talked him out of it, per se ... but they calmed him down enough so that he himself could back out of it.

I believe Elvis hated Stone until the day he died.

So, yes, Elvis was capable of hate. To say otherwise would mean he wasn't human. And "Elvis was only human" has been written here about 805,000 times!

no! that doesn't mean he wasn't human..my father is a human and he can't hate,even to the point he makes me mad sometimes. I think my dad is a man who loves to give much more than take,forgives easily and can accept people with all their failings, maybe that's why he can't come close to hate and this is a human characteristic too,nothing extraordinary.. we should be ready to find out things along the way that could amaze us..nothing exactly the way we've learned so far..and I insist,Elvis wouldn't have killed Stone ,not in a million years,specially if he was there in the same room, looking at his **** Stone face..no!.. maybe a good fight was possible for sure.:lol:Elvis was a type who asked the reason, the truth behind the things and liked to know the both side of the story to anything..I know this doesn't sound like a cool Elvis image..;)

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I am honestly trying to see that, but I'm having a tough time finding it.:blush:

I believe a selection of my comments answers you question above!!


Hi Brad,

It Is possible that the MM were just as dependent as Elvis was......

The guys although flawed (some very flawed).........

There is enough blame to share with all concerned around Elvis, Including Elvis himself.



WHERE IS THE FORGIVENESS, the fans haven't been wronged Elvis HAD.



I feel sorry for ALL concerned; Errors in judgment were made by ALL concerned. As I have commented earlier, no-one has come out of this well.




Is anyone going to explain to all the members what happened to the philosophical debate thread that has vanished?:blink::blink:

I suppose I could try until I was blue in the face and even take a polygraph test and it still wouldn't be enough!!?? Please read the NEW philosophical thread....

[cameron]

It would have been better had you quoted the complete posts. Matt.
Therein you would find what you posted . You're not defending anyone, except your point of view. ;)

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

It would have been better had you quoted the complete posts. Matt.
Therein you would find what you posted . You're not defending anyone, except your point of view. ;)

Thank you for your advice, but I was responding to utmom2008, who commented:-


I am honestly trying to see that, but I'm having a tough time finding it.:blush:

from my quote:-



The difference that you either can't see or are unwilling to see is, I defend BOTH sides

I believe your position in this matter is abundantly clear. Thank you (y)

[Unchained Melody]

Question: Why have other threads been closed for less than this????

Well after being away a few days and not viewing the thread until just now I would say its because many can't discuss issues like this without turning it personal against one another just because we have different opinions.

[ehollier]

So I can tell from the sonny west thread many fans still hold a grudge against him for the cooperation he had in the elvis what happened book. What what about Red West, who was with elvis since they were in high school when red would take up for elvis when guys would puck up him because of his hair and side burns. What are your thoughts on hin, me, i like him, and after listening to the phone conversation he had with elvis in october 1976 i can understand where he was coming from and thought he was very very hurt after being fired and the fact he had been there so long side Elvis' side, and elvis didn't even tell him personally had his dad do it. I like red because after all these years he hasn't been hardly public at all and haven't seen any books that i know of from him except for the elvis what happened. and after reading it i notice whenever they tell about the good times in the book, you will notice that it was Red telling those stories and thats why i like him. he hasn't been nearly as public after elvis' death as sonny has but thats not a knock on him.

I just finished reading Elvis, What Happened? today. I am not sure what I was expecting in this "tell all" book, but I don't think it lived up to my expectations. I do not know if it is because so much has been written about Elvis' life since or because this book has been quoted in many, many instances; however, after finishing it, I wasn't left with the feeling that Red and Sonny set out to ruin Elvis with this book. The good stories, the positive times that were experienced b/t the guys were very apparent as was the fact that they did love him very much, which they repeatedly say thoughout the entire book. Yes, they did reveal some of the darker moments, but they were generous with the wonderful things that Elvis did.

[Tommy]

The orginial philosophical debate thread has been searched, and re-searched, :blink: please except this new one with my apologies (y)

Even with my big :goggles: glasses I couldn't find the other one:lol:

[Unchained Melody]

No worries Tommy! (y)

[presley31]

The orginial philosophical debate thread has been searched, and re-searched, :blink: please except this new one with my apologies (y)

Even with my big :goggles: glasses I couldn't find the other one:lol:



Tommy you are forgiven this time:P, but don't make me pull out my goggles next time :lol::lol:

[Tommy]

I think I'm in the wrong thread:blink: sorry:blush:

[ehollier]

I think I'm in the wrong thread:blink: sorry:blush:

Actually, I thought maybe I was nuts, but I'm glad to know that's its just a mistake. :P:P:P

[presley31]

I think I'm in the wrong thread:blink: sorry:blush:

here is the thread Tommy.

http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread.php?t=21086

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I just finished reading Elvis, What Happened? today. I am not sure what I was expecting in this "tell all" book, but I don't think it lived up to my expectations. I do not know if it is because so much has been written about Elvis' life or this book has been quoted in many, many instances; however, after finishing it, I wasn't left with the feeling that Red and Sonny set out to ruin Elvis with this book. The good stories, the positive times that were experienced b/t the guys. Yes, they did reveal some of the darker moments, but they were generous with the wonderful things that Elvis did.

The book in all honesty has been blown out of all proportion! By todays standards this book is tame and people reading it now have seen and heard worse. That said, back in 1977 this book would have been considered explosive!

[Unchained Melody]

That said, back in 1977 this book would have been considered explosive!

Clearly even today many consider it still explosive.

This thread is evidence of that !

[ehollier]

Elvis was an intensely private man that lived a very public life. There will always be things that we do not know about Elvis completely and each story told from an individual's perspective will change the significance of that story. I suspect that the down times or bad times were much worse than any person could imagine or put into words. Just as the wonderful times and his generousity were beyond words.

I believe that Elvis' early death is one of the reasons that there is such a huge debate and interest in these stories as if by learning the details, we can point a finger and blame his untimely passing on someone else, thereby relieving Elvis of his demise.

Red and Sonny wrote a book and have been held responsible. I believe that Elvis should be given the same respect and previlege for his actions - the relationships he had with the MM, the employment, or lack there of, of the MM, his premiscuousness, the incessant search for sources of medications, and his state and the circumstances of his life at the time of his death.

We read books about his life and make our individual choices of what to believe and what not to believe. But unless someone has personally lived that lifestyle or shared that bubble that he maintained so close around him, I don't feel that any of us can judge anyone that has come out and attributed to what has been written about Elvis.

[ehollier]

The book in all honesty has been blown out of all proportion! By todays standards this book is tame and people reading it now have seen and heard worse. That said, back in 1977 this book would have been considered explosive!

Yes, I agree and have acknowledged that. But I do not believe that it would have ruined his career had he lived longer, nor would it have encouraged him to clean up his act.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Yes, I agree and have acknowledged that. But I do not believe that it would have ruined his career had he lived longer, nor would it have encouraged him to clean up his act.

100% agreed Elvis was bigger than this book, it would have made front page news for a short time but gradually become history. Elvis had/has a loyal fan base who would have supported him through thick and thin.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Clearly even today many consider it still explosive.

This thread is evidence of that !

Yeah, I would certainly have to agree with you :blush:

[Jungleroom76]

Clearly even today many consider it still explosive.

This thread is evidence of that !

You are 100% right Jon....this is DEFINITELY still a VERY HOT BUTTON issue!!

TCB!
Mike

[Unchained Melody]

You are 100% right Jon....this is DEFINITELY still a VERY HOT BUTTON issue!!

TCB!
Mike

Next time I will think twice before beginning a thread about the MM :lol:;)

[Jungleroom76]

Next time I will think twice before beginning a thread about the MM :lol:;)

Don't worry about it pal....it has made for some VERY lively conversation!!! :D

TCB!
Mike

[Unchained Melody]

Don't worry about it pal....it has made for some VERY lively conversation!!! :D

TCB!
Mike

Definitley have to agree with you there ;)

[Merry]

Don't worry about it pal....it has made for some VERY lively conversation!!! :D

TCB!
Mike


LOL Mike, you ALWAYS make me smile! lol

[Getlo]

I just finished reading Elvis, What Happened? ....that Elvis did.

Finally, a reasoned response to the book. And an interesting one, considering you've only just read it 30 or so years after the event.

[utmom2008]

my father is a human and he can't hate,even to the point he makes me mad sometimes. I think my dad is a man who loves to give much more than take,forgives easily and can accept people with all their failings, maybe that's why he can't come close to hate.
I think we are all born with the same emotions, but it's how we handle our emotions that separates us and makes each one of us different. Your father sounds like a very nice and kind man, you are very lucky to have him for a Father. I hope he passed along some of his traits to you.:blush::blink::blush:


I insist,Elvis wouldn't have killed Stone ,not in a million years,specially if he was there in the same room, looking at his **** Stone face..no!.. maybe a good fight was possible for sure.:lol:Elvis was a type who asked the reason, the truth behind the things and liked to know the both side of the story to anything..I know this doesn't sound like a cool Elvis image..;)

IMO I don't think Elvis felt the need to ask Mike Stone anything. His questions had already been answered as far as Elvis was concerned. I would imagine that Elvis felt like the guy was responsible for the biggest and most public humiliation he had ever been through. Wether you were an Elvis fan or not was beside the point....everyone was stunned that Priscilla Presley would dump the King of Rock-n-Roll for someone like Mike Stone.:supriced::supriced::supriced:

[utmom2008]

I just finished reading Elvis, What Happened? today. I am not sure what I was expecting in this "tell all" book, but I don't think it lived up to my expectations.
That's interesting...why did you wait so long to read it?:supriced:


The book in all honesty has been blown out of all proportion! By todays standards this book is tame and people reading it now have seen and heard worse. That said, back in 1977 this book would have been considered explosive!

That's the whole thing in a nutshell Matt. It was a BIG deal in 1977. We are talking about a time in the entertainment field where Paul Anka singing "She's Having My Baby" raised alot of eyebrows. Unwed mothers were looked down upon, if you were gay you stayed in the closet as long as possible..etc..etc. Times were different!!:blink::blink:

[Merry]

That's interesting...why did you wait so long to read it?:supriced:

[/b]

That's the whole thing in a nutshell Matt. It was a BIG deal in 1977. We are talking about a time in the entertainment field where Paul Anka singing "She's Having My Baby" raised alot of eyebrows. Unwed mothers were looked down upon, if you were gay you stayed in the closet as long as possible..etc..etc. Times were different!!:blink::blink:


In some situations, people were too judgemental, but honestly, as you've said before Rosanne, some of the old fashioned values are going/gone and it is unusual for people to have those values these days.

It is sad that those days are gone, and the people who hang onto those old fashioned values and morals, are looked down on, in some cases.

[utmom2008]

In some situations, people were too judgemental, but honestly, as you've said before Rosanne, some of the old fashioned values are going/gone and it is unusual for people to have those values these days.

It is sad that those days are gone, and the people who hang onto those old fashioned values and morals, are looked down on, in some cases.

Exactly...it makes you wish for a happy medium somewhere along the way. It makes me wonder what the world will be like someday for my grandkids(NO! I don't have any yet!!). BUT...when I do get some one day, I'll think that way!:lmfao:

[utmom2008]

Good luck with this thread Bradley. Threads about the MM, especially the West boys, generally turn ugly before they are over.:blink::blush::blink:


Next time I will think twice before beginning a thread about the MM :lol:;)

Bradley, Bradley, Bradley...what are we going to do with you? Here we are 170 posts later.:P:P You remind me of my daughter..she has to learn everything the hard way as well!!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[ehollier]

Finally, a reasoned response to the book. And an interesting one, considering you've only just read it 30 or so years after the event.


That's interesting...why did you wait so long to read it?:supriced:


I was only 10 years old when he died and didn't know about their book.


Then I came here and read all of the stuff that is written and debated and theorized on TCB-World and decided that I needed to read the book on my own and make my own determination of it.

I stand by my previous post that states that I do not think that Red and Sonny set out to ruin Elvis with this book. Yes, they did reveal some of the darker moments, but they were very generous with recalling the wonderful things that Elvis did.

Do I think they had terrrible timing when the book was published? Certainly. Do I think it would have ruined Elvis? No. Do I think Elvis would have cleaned himself up? No.

But the book did not shock me, rather I was surprised by all of the positive things that they talked about, the respect and understanding that they had for Priscilla while she was married to him, and how they repeatedly said how much they loved Elvis.

[The King's Queen]

I have the book, and have read it several times. I don't care how much they say they care for or love Elvis...it still comes down being a book written with intent to defame Elvis, IMO. Since all of this controversy came about on here, I have even re-read the book...just to see if I could get a different perspective. And still...it seems the same to me. Look...I'm not saying that everything in the book is a lie. I'm sure that there was a modest amount of sensationalism between the covers of the book...isn't that a given with any book of it's kind???? All I'm saying is that I, personally, think it was distasteful for them to write such a book directly after they got the can from Vernon. If that, in itself, isn't enough to cast doubt on their reason(s) for writing it, then nothing could be!

Do I believe it would have ended or crippled his fame??? NO!

Do I believe it was written to hurt Elvis???? YES! Supposedly they were in the midst of his downward spiral, right? And supposedly they wrote the book in hopes that it would jolt Elvis into getting straight, right??? Here is where I have a problem: If they knew many years before they actually decided to write this book that Elvis was in need of some serious help...then why didn't they risk his ire and do something to help him then??? Why get the urge to do so, after they got fired, and then make a feeble attempt to pledge their affection for him while they were spilling what Elvis tried so hard to keep private??? :doh::blink::doh:

[Unchained Melody]

Bradley, Bradley, Bradley...what are we going to do with you? Here we are 170 posts later.:P:P You remind me of my daughter..she has to learn everything the hard way as well!!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

What can I say :blush::blush::lmfao:

[utmom2008]

Do I believe it was written to hurt Elvis???? YES! Supposedly they were in the midst of his downward spiral, right? And supposedly they wrote the book in hopes that it would jolt Elvis into getting straight, right??? Here is where I have a problem: If they knew many years before they actually decided to write this book that Elvis was in need of some serious help...then why didn't they risk his ire and do something to help him then??? Why get the urge to do so, after they got fired, and then make a feeble attempt to pledge their affection for him while they were spilling what Elvis tried so hard to keep private??? :doh::blink::doh:

Great post Lea!(y)(y) I've had those same thoughts for years...their timing was a little suspect, don't you think? Another suggestion....take the money they got from this book(the one they didn't write!!) and make a donation in Elvis' memory to an honorable place..maybe even a new drug-facility that is trying to get their feet off the ground. That would go a long way in showing the rest of the world just how much they loved and cared for Elvis.;);)

[utmom2008]

I was only 10 years old when he died and didn't know about their book.


:lol: I know you were 10 when he died and the book was released....I'm just surprised that somewhere between the ages of 10 and 40 you never picked up a copy and read it.:supriced::lol:

[ehollier]

:lol: I know you were 10 when he died and the book was released....I'm just surprised that somewhere between the ages of 10 and 40 you never picked up a copy and read it.:supriced::lol:

No I didn't, however, I do recall that the first book I read about him was Goldman's book entitled "Elvis." Goldman's book makes "Elvis, What Happened?" read like a nursery rhyme. Of course, being young, maybe 15, everything written in the book I understood to be gospel, but Mr. Goldman wrote that book with so much contempt, that I didn't want to read anything else.

Now, if you want to talk distasteful and cruel, we can start start slinging mud about aweful things written by Goldman, I would be happy to take Goldman to task, but Sonny and Red didn't have the scorn and contempt that Goldman had.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

In some situations, people were too judgemental, but honestly, as you've said before Rosanne, some of the old fashioned values are going/gone and it is unusual for people to have those values these days.

It is sad that those days are gone, and the people who hang onto those old fashioned values and morals, are looked down on, in some cases.

Hi Jess, just some observations on your above post (off topic of course) not aimed at anyone in particular. I invite your observations (y)

There are some values that have gone, but some that still pervade throughout time.... the older generation will always look back at a time of perceived innocence that seems to have vanished forever! I find myself looking back at a time I believed to be more innocent in my teens etc.

However when you get right down to it there have always been times throughout every generation of violence and intolerance. The fight for good against evil has always gone on since time began. In years gone by there were hidden dangers that are exposed in a more unlighted generation.

Perhaps there was an age of innocence but each generation is going to point to a time they call their age of innocence. I loved my Grandfather because he was a very wise man, he would say each generation would look upon themselves as the custodians of morals (I have used his comment recently).

I believe that the vast majority of people are inherently good, we live on a planet that has over 6 billion people on it.. Yes there is more crime because there is more people. We have a media circus on the television every day only to happy to focus on the negative. Children have become more self aware at a younger age, they are exposed/bombarded by advertisers to buy the latest technologies etc.

I don't look down on the older generation, but lets be honest here, there are people from the older generations who look down on the younger generation without reason. Being older doesn't give you divine provenance over others. I can see maturity in people gained through life experience and use it in my life, I can see older generations who I wouldn't emulate in any way because they haven't used their life experiences to better themselves....

Anyway I digress somewhat, in a nutshell just because people are older doesn't automatically mean your moral compass or experiences are more valid than someone younger, quite the contrary, if you think you can't learn from younger people then you are losing out. That said there are elements of youth (as with all generations) who are disruptive and disrespectful, hopefully they will grow out of such impertinent behaviors and contribute to their environments.

[Merry]

I'm not an older generation to you, Matt, lol.

I've just found that the world is changing, that people feel that they can be rude and insulting, whereas even when we were children, Matt, it wasn't like it is, now.

In the right company, a woman was treated as a lady. Men weren't insulting and rude, with snide remarks. People were above that.

In fact, another man would take exception to a lady (woman) being treated, as seems to be the norm these days, and acceptable, for someone to be just plain rude.

As I said, at my son's school, they were teaching him four letter words! (Well he knows them, :blink: lol, but I'm trying to teach him manners).

It's a matter of self control, and respect. Not this rot that respect should be earned; in my opinion, respect should be given, unless the relationship is damaged.

Yes, I have high expectations, but that's the way I am.

We need to teach our children to care, to also care for others, even if they are strangers!

[cameron]

I'm not an older generation to you, Matt, lol.

I've just found that the world is changing, that people feel that they can be rude and insulting, whereas even when we were children, Matt, it wasn't like it is, now.

In the right company, a woman was treated as a lady. Men weren't insulting and rude, with snide remarks. People were above that.

In fact, another man would take exception to a lady (woman) being treated, as seems to be the norm these days, and acceptable, for someone to be just plain rude.

As I said, at my son's school, they were teaching him four letter words! (Well he knows them, :blink: lol, but I'm trying to teach him manners).

It's a matter of self control, and respect. Not this rot that respect should be earned; in my opinion, respect should be given, unless the relationship is damaged.

Yes, I have high expectations, but that's the way I am.

We need to teach our children to care, to also care for others, even if they are strangers!

I remember those days . :)
Most people are good and care about others.

I've always believed that we can learn from the "younger generation."
I also believe it works both ways. I always respected my elders, even when I disagreed with them. If not, you can be assured I got my butt whipped !!
I do the same with my grandchildren when they're here.
It doesn't hurt a thing to teach them manners.
As for four letter words; Their parents still wash their mouths out with soap ! :P

[Getlo]

it still comes down being a book written with intent to defame Elvis, IMO.

You cannot defame anybody with the truth. Sensationalism aside, there is nothing in What Happened that is untruthful. Every time I ask people to list some of the book's "lies", they never respond.


If they knew many years before they actually decided to write this book that Elvis was in need of some serious help...then why didn't they risk his ire and do something to help him then???

Please. The MM (Red, Sonny, Joe et al) tried many times to confront Elvis over his self-destructive behaviour. And he rejected them every time. They confronted one of his suppliers. They told him he was spiralling out of control. Why do people assume the MM did nothing in all the years they were with Elvis? It is erroneous to suggest they did nothing. Why aren't people more critical of, say, Charlie Hodge ... who stood by and did bugger all?!

[Donut]

I just finished reading Elvis, What Happened? today. I am not sure what I was expecting in this "tell all" book, but I don't think it lived up to my expectations. I do not know if it is because so much has been written about Elvis' life since or because this book has been quoted in many, many instances; however, after finishing it, I wasn't left with the feeling that Red and Sonny set out to ruin Elvis with this book. The good stories, the positive times that were experienced b/t the guys were very apparent as was the fact that they did love him very much, which they repeatedly say thoughout the entire book. Yes, they did reveal some of the darker moments, but they were generous with the wonderful things that Elvis did.

I wasn´t impressed either by EWH, to be sincere i was more impressed by "Careless love" maybe because it was the first one i got to read. But after all this discussion here about the book i think i will read it again when i have time just to see it if the positive and negative stuff was so balanced as i remember.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

I'm not an older generation to you, Matt, lol.

I've just found that the world is changing, that people feel that they can be rude and insulting, whereas even when we were children, Matt, it wasn't like it is, now.

In the right company, a woman was treated as a lady. Men weren't insulting and rude, with snide remarks. People were above that.

In fact, another man would take exception to a lady (woman) being treated, as seems to be the norm these days, and acceptable, for someone to be just plain rude.

As I said, at my son's school, they were teaching him four letter words! (Well he knows them, :blink: lol, but I'm trying to teach him manners).

It's a matter of self control, and respect. Not this rot that respect should be earned; in my opinion, respect should be given, unless the relationship is damaged.

Yes, I have high expectations, but that's the way I am.

We need to teach our children to care, to also care for others, even if they are strangers!

Lol, I didn't mean to imply you were an old fogey... lost in translation I suppose. I still hold doors for woman, I still watch my language in the presence of ladies and a lot of people I know both young and old continue to do so... shiveraly is IMO different from morals although I admit there is a close relationship.

I have always found that if people are initially pleasent, then other will recipricate in kind.

The biggist issue I find nowerdays is alcohal... 9 times out of ten it is the route of all evil when it comes to children and adults! Moderation in all things I suppose :lol:


I remember those days . :)
Most people are good and care about others.

I've always believed that we can learn from the "younger generation."
I also believe it works both ways. I always respected my elders, even when I disagreed with them. If not, you can be assured I got my butt whipped !!
I do the same with my grandchildren when they're here.
It doesn't hurt a thing to teach them manners.
As for four letter words; Their parents still wash their mouths out with soap ! :P

Respect should be a two way street, in the past children were talked down to and smacked by their elders/parents! In the 'Good Ole days' children were expected to be seen and not heard and dare not question elders even if they knew what they were being told was wrong. IMO you should be able to challenge, probe and question without fear of being censured by elders. The gift of age doesn't always bestow wisdom.

That said I don't believe you should automatically be rude to your elders either. My daughter respects her elders but has learned to be diplomatic and courteous.

I suppose social boundaries have changed, some not for the better. It seems kids have everything that T.V. tells them they need but they are still bored and unsatisfied, I guess gold old fashioned fresh air and simple pleasures kept us occupied, that and being belted :lol:

[Diane]

I totally agree with your first paragraph Matt as that was the kind of upbringing I had. As children we couldn't voice our opinions nor question what the elders had to say and I feel that was very wrong and destructive for healthy mental growth. Luckily my parents were more sensitive to my sister and my needs than most and we were able to get through to them at times.

On the other side of the coin I've seen too many parents today who are actually run by their children at a very young age. The kids really know how to "push buttons" today and are allowed to be disrespectful. I realize it may not be the majority but there is a lot of it out there.

I'm looking for a change (I hope) for something in between where parents teach their children respect and respect them in turn. I believe parents are there to love, guide and protect their children as befitting their age, not control or be controlled by them and I believe that some parents these days are doing just that and others who could learn from them so maybe things are coming around after all......

Diane

[MissyM]

I have no feelings one way or the other on the whole West/EWH thing. But what continues to amaze me is how people on the outside seem to elevate themselves to such a self-righteous point. We were not there, if you live it, feel it, know all the details, then you can say what you would have done. We are so far removed from those circumstances, how can we sit in judgement.

[Getlo]

in the past children were ... smacked by their elders/parents!

Yes, and one of the main things wrong in the western world is that this practice is beng outlawed!

Clowns full of psychobabble tell us that smacking is harmful, but they can't tell the difference between a smack and abuse.

There is nothing wrong with a slap to the backside or thighs (using the hands only of course) when a child is unruly. And as a last resort.

Children need to be taught consequences. When they break the rules, they need to know they have done the wrong thing.

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" - isn't that in The Bible? I know Dr Spock said it too ... and he was RIGHT.

[Diane]

I agree with you 100% Getlo. There is a vast difference in spanking a child on the backside or thigh with a hand and to not get carried away with it for disobedience, and what should be termed abuse.

Diane

[MissyM]

We've gone off topic but oh well, Funny we have less spanking, less discipline in general, and yet, we have the most violent generation of children ever. Explain that one!

[Getlo]

We've gone off topic but oh well, Funny we have less spanking, less discipline in general, and yet, we have the most violent generation of children ever. Explain that one!

What do you mean "and yet"?

No smacking as a kid = no sense of consequences = kids more prone to keep pushing the limits = more potential for violence and criminal activity later.

Simple.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

Yes, and one of the main things wrong in the western world is that this practice is beng outlawed!

Clowns full of psychobabble tell us that smacking is harmful, but they can't tell the difference between a smack and abuse.

There is nothing wrong with a slap to the backside or thighs (using the hands only of course) when a child is unruly. And as a last resort.

Children need to be taught consequences. When they break the rules, they need to know they have done the wrong thing.

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" - isn't that in The Bible? I know Dr Spock said it too ... and he was RIGHT.

I agree with what your saying, however there was a lot more than spanking of legs going on in the good old days ;)..... the strap, the cane, the slipper and the belt were common place. I think everbody but the overzealous loonies would accept that a smack on the legs is acceptable.

The authorities have gone to far the other way IMO (n)

[Getlo]

the strap, the cane, the slipper and the belt were common place.

Yes, but I believe corporal punishment should be brought back into schools (ie the cane) for both boys and girls!

I got the cane at school a few times, and deserved it every time.

[Diane]

Nope, don't believe in cane, belt or switch etc. In school maybe a strap or ruler on the palm of the hand without too much force. Better yet, sent to the principal in shame. At home, a slap on the thigh but I feel the best thing is to lose a privilege for a time or extra chores when they are old enough to understand. Kids aren't dumb work animals, what is done to them in their early years sticks throughout a lifetime and that can go either way.

Diane

[Unchained Melody]

We've gone off topic but oh well, Funny we have less spanking, less discipline in general, and yet, we have the most violent generation of children ever. Explain that one!

Yeah I noticed that.....:blink:

[ehollier]

Originally Posted by MissyM http://www.tcb-world.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread.php?p=216069#post216069)
We've gone off topic ........


Ya think??? I wish someone could tell me what spanking a child has to do with Sonny West?????:blink::blink::blink:

[Unchained Melody]

Ya think??? I wish someone could tell me what spanking a child has to do with Sonny West?????:blink::blink::blink:

That's what crossed my mind once I opened the thread up this morning...:blink:

[cameron]

Respect should be a two way street, in the past children were talked down to and smacked by their elders/parents! In the 'Good Ole days' children were expected to be seen and not heard and dare not question elders even if they knew what they were being told was wrong. IMO you should be able to challenge, probe and question without fear of being censured by elders. The gift of age doesn't always bestow wisdom.

That said I don't believe you should automatically be rude to your elders either. My daughter respects her elders but has learned to be diplomatic and courteous.

I suppose social boundaries have changed, some not for the better. It seems kids have everything that T.V. tells them they need but they are still bored and unsatisfied, I guess gold old fashioned fresh air and simple pleasures kept us occupied, that and being belted :lol:
I guess I wasn't as "far back" as some remember. I NEVER got a smack ,never was expected to be "seen and not heard"
Nor did I do any of those things to my kids. I can remember only getting a swiching once in my entire childhood. {and I deserved it;) }
I don't think it hurts to swat a kid on the butt and make them take a "time out." NO BEATINGS, in any way ,shape or form. While some in my family use the "grounded "policy , I've never found it worked as well for me. :hmm:Maybe when they get older ??
My grandson {2year old} "gets it "quite well if I swat his behind. It breaks his heart if I swat him. He's also quite fluent in saying," please, thank you and you're welcome. "
They're all good kids --I had him and his brother yesterday for a short time. We went outside and shot waterguns at each other . ;)

[presley31]

Nope, don't believe in cane, belt or switch etc. In school maybe a strap or ruler on the palm of the hand without too much force. Better yet, sent to the principal in shame. At home, a slap on the thigh but I feel the best thing is to lose a privilege for a time or extra chores when they are old enough to understand. Kids aren't dumb work animals, what is done to them in their early years sticks throughout a lifetime and that can go either way.

Diane

I agree diane. I got belt on the bottom when l was growing up, but i do things so different with my child, if he acts up at a store he gets time out just like at home, he has a time out chair and l feel thats been working better than a smack on the bottom or on hand.

[4THEHEART]

Yes, but I believe corporal punishment should be brought back into schools (ie the cane) for both boys and girls!

I got the cane at school a few times, and deserved it every time.

Why didn't you tell us before Getlo..now that figures..:)
well,in our schools students were beaten even..:supriced: but my parents banned my teachers doing that to me from the first day of school..they both never used this kinda punishment for me and bro at home..and we never had a lack of respect for elder people..I don't believe physical punishment, that only causes anger and hate..

[utmom2008]

Yes, and one of the main things wrong in the western world is that this practice is beng outlawed!

Clowns full of psychobabble tell us that smacking is harmful, but they can't tell the difference between a smack and abuse.

There is nothing wrong with a slap to the backside or thighs (using the hands only of course) when a child is unruly. And as a last resort.

Children need to be taught consequences. When they break the rules, they need to know they have done the wrong thing.

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" - isn't that in The Bible? I know Dr Spock said it too ... and he was RIGHT.


Yes, but I believe corporal punishment should be brought back into schools (ie the cane) for both boys and girls!

I got the cane at school a few times, and deserved it every time.

I agree with these 2 posts 1000%. My hubs is a teacher/coach...I get to hear the stories everyday of what kids are like today. Not only are you not allowed to spank them, but EVERY time a child gets into trouble at school the parents come running. Back in the good ole' days the parents would side with the teacher and let little "Johnny" know he best straighten up. Now days..the parents come running and will at times contact their attorney. Now, how big a load of crap is that??

The other thing that fascinates me?? "Super Nanny"!! This woman has made millions by showing parents how to say "NO" to their child!!! It cracks me up....Super Nanny will say...It's not nice to hit Mummy..you must now go to the naughty mat". A naughty mat???? Therein lies alot of our troubles today.

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

The other thing that fascinates me?? "Super Nanny"!! This woman has made millions by showing parents how to say "NO" to their child!!! It cracks me up....Super Nanny will say...It's not nice to hit Mummy..you must now go to the naughty mat". A naughty mat???? Therein lies alot of our troubles today.

Is this an American T.V. show? :lol: talk about money for old rope ;)

Anyway....... Them west boys could do with a switching :lmfao:

[Unchained Melody]

Anyway....... Them west boys could do with a switching :lmfao:

Judging from people's views here, I'd say the west boys would be getting much more than a switching.:P;)

[Diane]

Lol Matt, you took the thought right out of my head but I was too chicken to post it.:lol:

Diane

[utmom2008]

Is this an American T.V. show? :lol: talk about money for old rope ;)

Anyway....... Them west boys could do with a switching :lmfao:

Yes..it's a show here in the US. It's also a very popular show here. The "nanny" is British however. The entire hour is spent with her teaching parents how to say "no" to their children and make them behave. The concept is hilarious if you really stop and think about it.:lol: And this woman has made millions doing it!:lol: It makes me ask myself...why didn't I think of this? :lmfao:
The first time we went to Memphis was 1988. While we were in one of the shops in the Plaza my hubs struck up a conversation with Uncle Vester. Once Vester got going there was no getting away from him. It was funny though, looking back, all he talked about was what a "brat" Lisa had become and he thought she needed "her butt busted". Those were his exact words!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[KPM]

Yes, and one of the main things wrong in the western world is that this practice is beng outlawed!

Clowns full of psychobabble tell us that smacking is harmful, but they can't tell the difference between a smack and abuse.

There is nothing wrong with a slap to the backside or thighs (using the hands only of course) when a child is unruly. And as a last resort.

Children need to be taught consequences. When they break the rules, they need to know they have done the wrong thing.

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" - isn't that in The Bible? I know Dr Spock said it too ... and he was RIGHT.
I have to agree-too much is made of a pop on the bottom as punishment.
Kids now are taught to yell child abuse at the drop of a hat. But this knee jerk legislation was brought on by the old days of the "woodshed and leather straps" I had a step dad who used belts, his fist, and kicks "to teach me the consequences of my actions" (and looking back it may have been a bit much).
But I am a firm believer in a pop on the rear as punishment. We need to get away from drawing the line-then redrawing it -when a kid crosses the first.

[Merry]

Children need to be taught consequences. When they break the rules, they need to know they have done the wrong thing.


I agree, Getlo.

[The King's Queen]

You cannot defame anybody with the truth. Sensationalism aside, there is nothing in What Happened that is untruthful. Every time I ask people to list some of the book's "lies", they never respond.

Well, if you would re-read my post, you would find that I did not imply that the book was full of lies. I simply inferred that the stories had been sensationalized a tad for the purpose of making them appear more interesting to those who were reading it for what it actually was: A tell-tale book about Elvis Presley! And Getlo, I disagree with the statement about not being able to defame anyone with the truth...:blink: Actually, if you consider how it seems that so many people went to such lengths to try to keep all of the drug use hidden, then IMO, to spill the beans and openly tell all about it, to me, is a bonafide effort to defame.;)



Please. The MM (Red, Sonny, Joe et al) tried many times to confront Elvis over his self-destructive behaviour. And he rejected them every time. They confronted one of his suppliers. They told him he was spiralling out of control. Why do people assume the MM did nothing in all the years they were with Elvis? It is erroneous to suggest they did nothing. Why aren't people more critical of, say, Charlie Hodge ... who stood by and did bugger all?!

Again, Getlo, I would have you to re-read my post. I never said that they didn't try to talk to Elvis from time to time about his issues...what I said/meant was that this tell-all book was a HUGE step! Why, pray tell, did they NOT choose to make such a huge step before they got booted??? :hmm::hmm: Surely you agree that there is quite a difference between simply "suggesting" to someone that their habits have gotten out of control...versus, say, writing a book that would blow the lid off of his deepest, darkest, secrets? :blink:


Yes, and one of the main things wrong in the western world is that this practice is beng outlawed!

Clowns full of psychobabble tell us that smacking is harmful, but they can't tell the difference between a smack and abuse.

There is nothing wrong with a slap to the backside or thighs (using the hands only of course) when a child is unruly. And as a last resort.

Children need to be taught consequences. When they break the rules, they need to know they have done the wrong thing.

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" - isn't that in The Bible? I know Dr Spock said it too ... and he was RIGHT.

:notworthy:notworthy Got to agree with you on this one Getlo! I, for one, believe it to be more than acceptable to 'spank' a child. There is a difference between spanking and a beating. As long as a parent/guardian can discern the difference between the two, I don't see a problem. (y)




Anyway....... Them west boys could do with a switching

:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:Pass the switch this way Matt...I'd love to take my turn!! ;):clap::lmfao:


Judging from people's views here, I'd say the west boys would be getting much more than a switching.

:jawdrop: Whatever would make you think that???? :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[Unchained Melody]

Ahh just an observation :P;)

[The King's Queen]

Ahh just an observation :P;)

;);)And a wise one at that! :lol::lol: