The Last Photo for Thirty Pieces of Silver

[NEA]

Hi

Which so-called Presley Family member took the last photo of Elvis lying in state and was paid a huge amount of money by the National Enquirer for doing this sordid deed?

What are the rumours?

[Lonniebealestreet]

Reportedly it was Billy Mann, a (distant?) cousin. :angry:

[NEA]

Billy Mann - a distant cousin...distant here being the operative word.

Any ideas how the finger pointed at this Mann character and whose side of the family is he from?

Just curious...

[Lonniebealestreet]

Hmm, I'm not sure exactly how the guy was related to Elvis, and he may not have even been a distant cousin. But I have only heard his name in reference to his having taken that picture, so I'm guessing he wasn't too close.

Don't know for sure either how it was determined to be him--sorry.

[NEA]

Thanks for your info LonnieBealeStreet!

I've just learned that Billy Mann was Elvis' third cousin and he was quite friendly in the very early Memphis days with Elvis and Gene Smith. And, he eventually became a hairstylist and apparently was mysteriously killed in a car accident many years ago.

Can anyone else add more on this now deceased character?

[NEA]

I realise that once Elvis' immediate family and friends found out about this happening they must have been absolutely livid with anger.....or did they not find out that this Billy Mann, third cousin, was the culprit and the National Enquirer was the instigator?....What was Vernon and Priscilla's reactions?

[Albert]

Because this is somehow a bit morbid topic, many Elvisfans don't like to talk about this subject. But Ive always been very interested in these little facts around his death.

This picture must have been a slap in the face to Elvis' family and close friends. So why are their reactions to this unknown? Are legal actions taken to this person? If not, why not? Who really was this person? Is he being interviewed by magazines later on?

If I would have been older in '77, those would have been my questions when I would have seen that picture for the very first time...

[Captain Elwood David]

.......... EP was indeed sold out in life, ............ as well as in death, ...... the first attempts starting with this incident ........ before EP was even put into the ground.

Very sad and very disprespectful to EP the human being & the loved ones he left behind.

-----------------------

Tabloid publications had initially attempted to photograph EP while in the morgue @ BMH, but were caught.

Billy Mann was a distant cousin of EP's. The NE had been actively seeking out willing participants to do the deed using an extremely small hidden camera. They found Mann, and the rest, unfortunately, is history.

Just to show you how really "close" this distant cousin was to EP, ........ the pic. was taken during the time that public mourners were allowed to pass by the coffin - not during the private cermoney with family & friends.

Mourners had to pass the coffin very quickly, multiple pics. were snapped rather haphazardly ...... only one usable one resulted.

Reports vary as to the amount paid, ranging from $10,000 to $75,000 USD. I believe, however, that the actual amount was around $30,000.

On a another note, Grob offered to resign after it came to light that a coffin photo was snapped & going to be published. It was his job & that of security to prevent just such an event from happening. According to Grob, Vernon was devastated when told.

Photo is touched up, but definitely real.

The reports of EP appearing slightly different (in both the photo & at the funeral) are due to the fact that EP had been found hours after being face down on the floor. Needless to say, some permanent distortions resulted.

----------------------------

The subject of EP death is not one for everybody. If this was a bit too graphic, my apologies.

I also happen to be interested in this topic.


- Capt. "EL."

[howardrobardhughes]

has the original unretouched photo ever surfaced..?

[Lonniebealestreet]

Great info, Captain.

That's interesting about Grob, actually makes him more likable in my book.

Regarding Elvis looking different in the coffin, though I know people who saw personally saw him lying in state took note of that too, could some of that public perception be due to their seeing a version of the coffin photo which was not touched up well?

I'm confused about this, and I don't have any of these things in front of me, but I recall seeing a couple different versions of that photo. In the one I had been used to seeing, Elvis did seem to have a bit of a "pug" nose. Then just in the last few years I saw the photo, and in it his nose looked the way it always did. What I can't remember now is whether this one I saw most recently was the actual one that originally ran in the Enquirer, or if this was one that was touched up later to make it look more like Elvis. Or perhaps the first one was the original image which ran, but it was touched up poorly and that's why his nose looked different. There were some other differences too, though less noticeable.

But his nose appearing different due to the circumstances of his death makes the most sense, and as you said, people observed the odd appearance from both the photo and seeing him in person. I guess what I need clarification on is which photo is which.

Actually I think this may be explained in some magazine I have :blush: , but I don't have it handy.

[Cherokee]

NOT TO BE READ BY FOLKS WHO GET UPSET BY READING ABOUT DEAD ELVIS!
:!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:








Well, according to many accounts Elvis indeed looked quite unrecognizable when he was found. Rigor mortis and discoloration will do that for you. The mere fact that, according to some accounts, his tongue was half bit off and Joe couldn't open his mouth to try to do mouth to mouth resucistation (sp) does explain why people who passed the casket may have had trouble recognizing "their" Elvis in the figure lying there..... :'(
Just think of your own experiences when viewing loved ones who'd passed. From my own experience some of my relatives I viewed looked quite different, too :blink: :( and they hadn't even been found in such extreme a condition either...... :hmm:

[Captain Elwood David]

Well, according to many accounts Elvis indeed looked quite unrecognizable when he was found. Rigor mortis and discoloration will do that for you.

Rigor eventually passes. It is the accumulation of fluids due to gravity that can cause "changes."


The mere fact that, according to some accounts, his tongue was half bit off and Joe couldn't open his mouth to try to do mouth to mouth resucistation (sp) does explain why people who passed the casket may have had trouble recognizing "their" Elvis in the figure lying there.....

I doubt the part about the tongue is true. No notation was made of this on the initial ME's report. Sounds like morbid embellishment by either those that were there, and not, ...... probably both.

CPR was performed while waiting for the paramedics to arrive: it was not done by JE.


- Capt. "EL."

[Cherokee]

Rigor eventually passes. It is the accumulation of fluids due to gravity that can cause "changes."


I doubt the part about the tongue is true. No notation was made of this on the initial ME's report. Sounds like morbid embellishment by either those that were there, and not, ...... probably both.

CPR was performed while waiting for the paramedics to arrive: it was not done by JE.


- Capt. "EL."

Yes I know about rigor mortis passing. All accounts of those who found him, or claim to have found him, state that he was stuck in "that" position, i.e. rigor mortis had not passed then yet. :blink:

I didn't say JE performed CPR. :nono:
I only said what he says on the "The Definitive Elvis" DVD's: he wanted to try CPR, he only knew it from the movies so not the real thing, but he couldn't open Elvis' mouth, so indeed he didn't do it.

[Lonniebealestreet]

Accounts also seem to vary about how Elvis looked in his casket.

Some have said he looked great--all the puffiness was gone, and he looked like he had when he was younger. According to some, Elvis himself said he would look good in his casket, seeming to know the end was near. So some of these reports point to him being right about that.

Others said he did not look so good.

Still others said it looked nothing like him; some of these folks fall into the category of conspiracy theorists, who have claimed things like he was sweating. If I'm not mistaken, cousin Gene Smith actually claimed that you could lift his sideburn up off his face some, that it had been glued down!

Though I hate the photo was taken, it does indeed make for interesting conversation. I think being intrigued by the details surrounding the death of Elvis can be a healthier interest than just some morbid fascination.

[Lonniebealestreet]

I believe in the past Joe might have claimed that he did perform CPR on him.

It's been claimed that he knocked Elvis's teeth out in an attempt to clear to clear the airway so he could do that. But he vehemently denies this. If he did do that, it seems like he would be frank about it, since he was just trying to save his friend's life. I guess the concern is that it still might strike some as a brutal thing to do, I don't know. But it could also very well be that it simply isn't true.

So many different accounts, told by people who had a specific agenda (some were protecting Elvis, and some were protecting themselves and their buddies) and others who, just due to the chaotic, traumatizing, and emotionally draining nature of the subject at hand, got confused about certain details, AND simply due to the passage of time and the fading of memories...finding the truth in all of it can be an extremely difficult task.

[Cherokee]

Accounts also seem to vary about how Elvis looked in his casket.

Some have said he looked great--all the puffiness was gone, and he looked like he had when he was younger. According to some, Elvis himself said he would look good in his casket, seeming to know the end was near. So some of these reports point to him being right about that.

Others said he did not look so good.

Still others said it looked nothing like him; some of these folks fall into the category of conspiracy theorists, who have claimed things like he was sweating. If I'm not mistaken, cousin Gene Smith actually claimed that you could lift his sideburn up off his face some, that it had been glued down!

Though I hate the photo was taken, it does indeed make for interesting conversation. I think being intrigued by the details surrounding the death of Elvis can be a healthier interest than just some morbid fascination.

Ditto on all you said (y)

I remember accounts of some fans who'd past the casket and claimed it didn't look like "their" Elvis, but when they continued describing the way Elvis (should have) looked, they really described Elvis from the fifties and sixties, and we all know Elvis hadn't looked like that for some time already:oops:

And yes, I also remember the stories about the "sweating" Elvis and the sideburns coming off. Then that whole "wax dummy" theory started:rolleyes:
It did always make me wonder, though, why it took 14 grown men such considerable effort to carry the coffin, especially after it was disclosed that all major organs were removed which (according to the medical specialists) accounted for the difference in appearance, no more big belly, and weight..... :hmm:

[Cherokee]

I believe in the past Joe might have claimed that he did perform CPR on him.

It's been claimed that he knocked Elvis's teeth out in an attempt to clear to clear the airway so he could do that. But he vehemently denies this. If he did do that, it seems like he would be frank about it, since he was just trying to save his friend's life. I guess the concern is that it still might strike some as a brutal thing to do, I don't know. But it could also very well be that it simply isn't true.

So many different accounts, told by people who had a specific agenda (some were protecting Elvis, and some were protecting themselves and their buddies) and others who, just due to the chaotic, traumatizing, and emotionally draining nature of the subject at hand, got confused about certain details, AND simply due to the passage of time and the fading of memories...finding the truth in all of it can be an extremely difficult task.

Again: ditto on all you said ;)

I wrote this in another thread about that:

You know, you're so right. I had to laugh when LK asked about August 16th, 1977 and they all start saying they were there, but not really THERE, there, just ..... there, in the vicinity :P and they all saw him being turned over. I was thinking, how big IS that bathroom that it can hold like a whole football team of people :blink: :D ;) and was kind of waiting for Joe to say "Hey! only me and Al Strada were there, with Ginger in the door opening!" but Joe just sat there with this Sphinx like smile. :hmm: :P

Each person over the years has at least told three different versions of their story :blink: :P :hmm:

[TCE]

Many theories and stories have been told after Elvis death and I think most are untrue or half true, these stories where told just for the money.
I was always wondering why the "gang" did so mysterious about Elvis death (Joe claims he found him and linda claimed she found him. )and (like said before, how it was possible that soo many people where in the that bathroom.) I read all above and if these people really did this all they didn't had the smallest respect for Elvis.
I saw the pic of Elvis in the coffin and Elvis looked like the Elvis of the 50's, begin 60's. I have that pic and to me it ain't creepy or so, just unreal. But it gives me comfort to see Elvis looking peacefully.


Be safe and take care,


Christel (TCE)

[Cherokee]

Many theories and stories have been told after Elvis death and I think most are untrue or half true, these stories where told just for the money.
I was always wondering why the "gang" did so mysterious about Elvis death (Joe claims he found him and linda claimed she found him. )and (like said before, how it was possible that soo many people where in the that bathroom.) I read all above and if these people really did this all they didn't had the smallest respect for Elvis.
I saw the pic of Elvis in the coffin and Elvis looked like the Elvis of the 50's, begin 60's. I have that pic and to me it ain't creepy or so, just unreal. But it gives me comfort to see Elvis looking peacefully.


Be safe and take care,


Christel (TCE)

Everybody has seen the infamous coffin picture, but it hardly looked like a fifties Elvis, amongst other things because it was badly retouched. Later a different version showed up of the pic, which looked more like Elvis..... but still not a fifties Elvis :blink:

[buttonhead]

Everybody has seen the infamous coffin picture, but it hardly looked like a fifties Elvis, amongst other things because it was badly retouched. Later a different version showed up of the pic, which looked more like Elvis..... but still not a fifties Elvis :blink:

yep i agree with you,..as i remember ..larry geller wrote on his book that he had to fix elvis make up since it was badly retouched , later on it was geller who had to borrowed ladies mascara to dye few inches of elvis grey hair, it surely not lookalike elvis in 50s,...after all he was 42 when he died . :blink:

[P.S. Annie]

Interesting thread. Sorry I dont have more info to participate but it is good to read about it. Of course I've seen the picture, and I found it surreal and he looked younger in my eyes.

[Captain Elwood David]

Cherokee - You may not have said that JE performed CPR, but you did give the impression that CPR was not / unable to be performed. It was indeed, both while awaiting the ambulance and in transit to BMH.

On a separate note: it took so many to lift the coffin because the design of the coffin was extremely heavy.

-------------------------

Have spoken to JE in great detail a number of times about that fateful day:

JE denies ever stating the stories about "the tongue" and "the teeth." IMO, these are - as to be expected - morbid embellishment & hyperbole that come with the passage of time.

JE's initial reports that he found the body where done so as to protect a very young Ginger's reputation and shield her from the onslaught of the media microscope that was to follow. It was also done to "TCB" .............. by those who were accustomed to doing so. Ginger was initially told not say anything and leave out unsavory details. The differing stories all started, here ........ and mushroomed into the multiple accounts that we have all heard today.

Only four people saw EP on the floor before he was moved ---> in chronological order:

Alden > The Maid > Strada > Esposito. Alden has much to add to the story, the maid only glanced @ EP before summoning others, Strada never spoke officially about it, & Esposito was the first person to touch & actually move Elvis.

Everyone else (Vernon, Stanley, Hodge, Smith, and others) arrived much later. Some, like Geller, were never even physically present in the bathroom that day.

There are many misconceptions / false tales from August 16, 1977. All accounts have pieces of TRUTH within - influenced by the source's personality (and sometimes, agenda).


- Capt. "EL."

[carolynlm]

Can I ask, with the benefit of hindsight, what do you all think of the decision to have a public viewing of Elvis' body? Even if a photograph had not been taken and published, do you think it was a good idea? I don't......I think that Elvis was basically a private person, and this should have been taken into consideration.

[Captain Elwood David]

According to Vernon, it is what EP wanted.


- Capt. "EL."

[Lonniebealestreet]

Interesting. While it is true Elvis indeed cherished his privacy, I can see him wanting the fans to have one last chance to see him.

By the way, thanks, Cherokee, for posting that page from the magazine--that's what I was referring to. The unretouched photo looks so much better; they should have left it alone. What they did to the chin especially is a disgrace...Well, paying a relative to take a picture of Elvis in his coffin for publishing purposes is the real disgrace.

[Cherokee]

Interesting. While it is true Elvis indeed cherished his privacy, I can see him wanting the fans to have one last chance to see him.

By the way, thanks, Cherokee, for posting that page from the magazine--that's what I was referring to. The unretouched photo looks so much better; they should have left it alone. What they did to the chin especially is a disgrace...Well, paying a relative to take a picture of Elvis in his coffin for publishing purposes is the real disgrace.

You're welcome, Lonnie ;) Well, the real disgrace is of course the relative TAKING the money! :angry: Goodness gracious, what a lovely family gesture (n)


Cherokee - You may not have said that JE performed CPR, but you did give the impression that CPR was not / unable to be performed. It was indeed, both while awaiting the ambulance and in transit to BMH.
I didn't give that impression! I merely stated that there were accounts by people around Elvis of that tongue situation. I wasn't there, so I don't know the details other than those I read, whether true or not. I don't believe any of us on this board were there in person at the time, so I guess that's how we get our information: from hearing and reading accounts from those who were there.
As a matter of fact somebody, I believe it was David Stanley when interviewed for a Dutch religious channel, said that, I believe back in the late eighties or in the early nineties. I'll look up that tape in the weekend.
Now I don't put much credibility in ANYTHING the Stanleys have to say, but that doesn't change the fact it was said. :hmm:

As far as the viewing goes: again I heard and read it was decided mainly to "please the crowd" i.e. to make sure there was no doubt that Elvis had really died. Of course the fact that some who viewed the body claimed it didn't look like him, followed by the badly retouched photo, almost botched that theory:doh:

[Captain Elwood David]

One must also be able to sift what is heard thru a filter, so as to re-piece the pertinent and OBJECTIVE facts back together for a more accurate portrait of what actually transpired. One must also have access to as many possible pieces and parts of the puzzle .......... not just what has been published or said in media interviews, etc..

In that sense, I assure you, we are not all relying on the same information in arriving at our respective information / facts.

----------------------------------

As just one example:

Here's a critical piece of objective thinking that eludes everybody when discussing this topic and rehashing all of the morbid embellishment that goes along with it:

The ME's initial report, makes no mention of any mouth abnormalities (tongue / teeth). The same report does list a thoracotomy mark (where the chest was incised during the code) and a pale pressure mark on the side of EP's head (from being on the ground for so long). In other words, no tongue was bitten & no teeth were sacrificed.

Objectively & critically evaluating the information is essential to cut thru the chaff.


- Capt. "EL."

[P.S. Annie]

Can I ask, with the benefit of hindsight, what do you all think of the decision to have a public viewing of Elvis' body? Even if a photograph had not been taken and published, do you think it was a good idea? I don't......I think that Elvis was basically a private person, and this should have been taken into consideration.

I think he would have wanted that the fans had the opportunity to say goodbye.

[Cherokee]

One must also be able to sift what is heard thru a filter, so as to re-piece the pertinent and OBJECTIVE facts back together for a more accurate portrait of what actually transpired. One must also have access to as many possible pieces and parts of the puzzle .......... not just what has been published or said in media interviews, etc..

In that sense, I assure you, we are not all relying on the same information in arriving at our respective information / facts.

----------------------------------

As just one example:

Here's a critical piece of objective thinking that eludes everybody when discussing this topic and rehashing all of the morbid embellishment that goes along with it:

The ME's initial report, makes no mention of any mouth abnormalities (tongue / teeth). The same report does list a thoracotomy mark (where the chest was incised during the code) and a pale pressure mark on the side of EP's head (from being on the ground for so long). In other words, no tongue was bitten & no teeth were sacrificed.

Objectively & critically evaluating the information is essential to cut thru the chaff.


- Capt. "EL."

Didn't the initial report also give very wrong numbers as far as drugs found, and also open spaces where info should be filled in?:rolleyes:

We are all willing to learn as much as possible, so if you have more info that is actual and factual, please do come forward and enlighten us ignoramuses ;)

[Captain Elwood David]

Didn't the initial report also give very wrong numbers as far as drugs found, and also open spaces where info should be filled in?:rolleyes:

The "initial report" that I'm referring to ----> No, on both counts.

You're going to have to be a little more specific in your retorts.


We are all willing to learn as much as possible, so if you have more info that is actual and factual, please do come forward and enlighten us ignoramuses ;)

Your words, not mine.

Would be happy to "enlighten", those that are sincere, and without sarcasm. ;)


- Capt. "EL."

[Cherokee]

The "initial report" that I'm referring to ----> No, on both counts.

You're going to have to be a little more specific in your retorts.


Your words, not mine.

Would be happy to "enlighten", those that are sincere, and without sarcasm. ;)


- Capt. "EL."

Hmmmm, you remind me of someone I've seen on some other MB :hmm: (n)

[Captain Elwood David]

Capt. N8, at your service. ;)

(It isn't a State Secret, you know).

----------------------

- Capt. "EL."

[Cherokee]

Capt. N8, at your service. ;)

(It isn't a State Secret, you know).

----------------------

- Capt. "EL."

A.K.A. Elvis himselvis (I saw your birthday in your profile :P )

Anyway, in that case I'll be blunt, this is not aimed at you personally, just my opinion about the general atmosphere on that other MB:


Okay, this is probably going to sound like a rant, but it's not, just my general opinion and not aimed at Nightrider :hug: or anybody in particular (on this board anyway :P ).

I'd say my limit is REAL LIFE. Things like bills, rent, food, gas, clothes, medication whatever.
My personal belief is that the depth of one's "being a fan" cannot and should not be measured by what one owns of/about one's object of affection i.e. one's "idol". :!:

I've read some threads on "that other board" where some annoyingly obnoxious know it alls and "own it alls" terrorize anybody who "doesn't know what they know" or "doesn't own what they own" about Elvis.
To me that is just pathetic and terribly bigheaded. I'd say that only proves they know shockingly little about Elvis whose motto was "I try to treat people the way I would like to be treated".
Bullying people off a message board because they do not express or experience their fandom the way these "experts" feel everybody should :nono: , is something I have a very strong feeling would piss off Elvis royally (y)
But, like I said, that's what I, as a lurker, have seen happen on that other MB which is one reason why I will never join it. I always hate the company of self important nobodys.

So, speaking solely for me: I love Elvis dearly, will try to expand my modest collection with things I find or suspect to be interesting (doesn't always work, some DVD's in particular are disappointing) but my Real Life always comes first and frankly I really don't need to have all that much. I have a (very) little of everything, except FTD's or soundboards whatever the hell those may be :rolleyes: : DVD's, official CD's, books, tapes, calendars, commemorative plates... but really nothing compared to what I've read most other fans have. :blink: Would I like to have more? Sure. Do I need to have every single release be it DVD, print or Audio? No way :P
Does that make me any less of a fan? Absolutely not.
He's in my heart, I can visualize him if I need to and I just love him, warts and all:wub:


This was a response in this (http://www.tcb-world.com/showthread.php?p=21323#post21323) thread.

What I mean to say is that we are all fans of the man, some of us apparently know more than others about the man, which is fine. What is not fine is when those who know more act condescendingly towards those who do not know as much as they claim to know, and who only want to learn more about Elvis.
There's no need to do that as there is no need to assume they also know the motivation behind each and every post of other members of that (or this) MB.
We're all supposedly adults (save for the few teenagers here :) ) and we should all get along. After all: we all have in common that we love that one, wonderful, man Elvis:wub:

[Captain Elwood David]

A.K.A. Elvis himselvis (I saw your birthday in your profile :P )


I see you got my joke.

--------------------------------

In other words: I'm one of the bad guys from that "other" MB ............ :blush:


- Capt. "EL."

[Cherokee]

I see you got my joke.

--------------------------------

In other words: I'm one of the bad guys from that "other" MB ............ :blush:


- Capt. "EL."


Don't laugh, but that's REALLY my birthday.......just 30 years later.....

Anyway, the reason why I DID register on this board and not that other one, was because here the more "knowing" fans help the others out with their knowledge in a friendly way. Not in a "Haha you simpleton, you've got it all wrong and I know SOOOOO much more than you, but you have to beg me before I'll share my vast knowledge" (n) :rolleyes: :nono: type of way.
Therefore I hope you will try to understand, be kind and help those who are here to learn, and respond to their posts in a respectful way ;) :worthy:

[Captain Elwood David]

Therefore I hope you will try to understand, be kind and help those who are here to learn, and respond to their posts in a respectful way ;) :worthy:
Seriously, .....

I do respect your opinion of me. Consider it understood.

-------------------------------------

This thread has gone way off-topic and is not about ME. I kindly request that any issues you have with me, be addressed by way of PM's direcly to me PRIVATELY.

My thanks in advance.

--------------------------------------


- Capt. "EL."

[Cherokee]

Seriously, .....

I do respect your opinion of me. Consider it understood.

-------------------------------------

This thread has gone way off-topic and is not about ME. I kindly request that any issues you have with me, be addressed by way of PM's direcly to me PRIVATELY.

My thanks in advance.

--------------------------------------


- Capt. "EL."

That's a big 10-4, good buddy ;) :P

[Elvis42]

I feel like we should start calling this a "soap opera" How about "As The Screen Scrolls?" :lol: j/k
I only have one question at this point..what the H*ll ever happened to Billy Mann, (that was the ***** family member who took the picture right?)

J.C.

[stilllovinelvis]

I do have to agree somewhat with "Cherokee". I came to this mb because it seemed to have a more "tolerant, open minded and kind hearted approach" towards the opinions and level of knowledge of others. I hope that doesn't change, but I can sense some condescending attitudes beginning. It makes some of us, who may have less knowledge, or enthusiasm about something that someone else does not etc., feel like this is not a place where we can openly speak without being criticized. Therefore, we are silenced. And is that the point? To silence everyone not up to someone else's supposed level? Or speak and run the risk of being humiliated and degraded? I am even fearful of speaking now to say this. Afraid of what attack may be launched on me. I am interested in learning things also. But attitude and the way things are said is key.

[Cherokee]

I feel like we should start calling this a "soap opera" How about "As The Screen Scrolls?" :lol: j/k
I only have one question at this point..what the H*ll ever happened to Billy Mann, (that was the ***** family member who took the picture right?)

J.C.

Hey JC?

"If you're lookin' for trouble....." :hammer:
Nah, just kidding ;) :peace: :hug:

Didn't somebody in the beginning of this thread say he died, way back? :blink: I forgot.....:unsure:

[Cherokee]

I do have to agree somewhat with "Cherokee". I came to this mb because it seemed to have a more "tolerant, open minded and kind hearted approach" towards the opinions and level of knowledge of others. I hope that doesn't change, but I can sense some condescending attitudes beginning. It makes some of us, who may have less knowledge, or enthusiasm about something that someone else does not etc., feel like this is not a place where we can openly speak without being criticized. Therefore, we are silenced. And is that the point? To silence everyone not up to someone else's supposed level? Or speak and run the risk of being humiliated and degraded? I am even fearful of speaking now to say this. Afraid of what attack may be launched on me. I am interested in learning things also. But attitude and the way things are said is key.

Yep, that's why us "lesser gods" preferred this board over "that other" board. So I hope the moderators will continue being able to "moderate" themselves as well ;)
Like Elvis used to say: it's all about L.O.V.E., man:hug::wub: :group:

[P.S. Annie]

I came to this mb because it seemed to have a more "tolerant, open minded and kind hearted approach" towards the opinions and level of knowledge of others. Yeah that's why I stayed here and left the other MB.

[Elvis42]

Hey JC?

"If you're lookin' for trouble....." :hammer:
Nah, just kidding ;) :peace: :hug:

Didn't somebody in the beginning of this thread say he died, way back? :blink: I forgot.....:unsure:

Cherokee,
Yea, someone said that he died mysteriously in a car accident, thats the part I am interested, the mysterious part :D Wonder how long after he took the picture he died?

J.C.