How serious was Elvis about another marriage and children?

[MissyM]

Speaking of the will made me wonder this. Since he did put something in his will for any lawfull children he may have, did he really entertain the idea of getting married again and having children? I'm thinking that maybe 30 percent he did but 70 he thought, not likely.

[The King's Queen]

IMO...I believe that Elvis did in fact entertain thoughts of having more children. And I believe that he also wanted to have a 'family' to spend his golden years with...but he never saw those. I'm not so sure that he was out there tearing off his toenails trying to find a new wife who could give him more kids...:blink:...but I do think that Elvis knew that the lifestyle he was maintaining was not really a good environment for children. With Elvis, I have always thought that his life started spiraling out of control and he just got lost somewhere in the cyclone of his own fame. I think that had he never been famous....he would have made some lucky girl a GREAT husband. And no doubt...he would probably have had several children. But how will we ever know? :'( Again...we must speculate. ;)

[ksimms2]

IMO...I believe that Elvis did in fact entertain thoughts of having more children. And I believe that he also wanted to have a 'family' to spend his golden years with...but he never saw those. I'm not so sure that he was out there tearing off his toenails trying to find a new wife who could give him more kids...:blink:...but I do think that Elvis knew that the lifestyle he was maintaining was not really a good environment for children. With Elvis, I have always thought that his life started spiraling out of control and he just got lost somewhere in the cyclone of his own fame. I think that had he never been famous....he would have made some lucky girl a GREAT husband. And no doubt...he would probably have had several children. But how will we ever know? :'( Again...we must speculate. ;)

great question Missy - and great comment here Lea - I agree totally on this. Too bad he didn't marry Linda.

[The King's Queen]

great question Missy - and great comment here Lea - I agree totally on this. Too bad he didn't marry Linda.

LINDA??? :supriced::doh: Too dang bad he didn't marry ME!!! ;):P

[hgs262626]

if you have elvis by the presleys the documentary there is a quote of him saying " i was a lonely child but errr .... maybe my kids wont be" and them priscilla says "we already had a name picked out for another child" then there is a quote where elvis says " but no one would ever take the place of that first one" hope this helps! if you have the documentary its about 30 mins into it. ginger also claimed that her and elvis were getting married in december of 1977, how true this is i am uncertain.

[presley31]

I really don't think elvis would of got married again. l think he knew deep down it just wasn't for him, but l think he would of loved to have more children to bad that didn't happen.

[TotallyInsane]

I think what he was doing was again, providing for Lisa, in the event of any "children" he had fathered came forth and protested the will...but of course they had to be proven "lawful children". This doesn't mean he had to be married to the woman of the child, it meant they had to lawfully prove to be his child(dren). I haven't read that will in a million years and don't recall it word for word. But, long story short, Lisa was being protected.

[The King's Queen]

I think what he was doing was again, providing for Lisa, in the event of any "children" he had fathered came forth and protested the will...but of course they had to be proven "lawful children". This doesn't mean he had to be married to the woman of the child, it meant they had to lawfully prove to be his child(dren). I haven't read that will in a million years and don't recall it word for word. But, long story short, Lisa was being protected.


You are 100% correct on this one Gail! (y) So as far as his will goes, Lisa was protected from any onslaught of 'half brothers or sisters' who might crop up to claim part of the estate. It would not matter unless it was proven that these were in fact his 'lawful' children.

[Burning_Love]

I believe he wanted more children. I know Linda once said they spoke about their kids names. So i guess he wanted children but he werent that fussed on it too soon. I thought maybe he would have been due to the fact he was an only child.

[Tony Trout]

if you have elvis by the presleys the documentary there is a quote of him saying " i was a lonely child but errr .... maybe my kids wont be" and them priscilla says "we already had a name picked out for another child" then there is a quote where elvis says " but no one would ever take the place of that first one" hope this helps! if you have the documentary its about 30 mins into it. ginger also claimed that her and elvis were getting married in december of 1977, how true this is i am uncertain.


Elvis may have given her an "engagement" ring but he had no intention of marrying Ginger Alden...none whatsoever.

[TotallyInsane]

Elvis may have given her an "engagement" ring but he had no intention of marrying Ginger Alden...none whatsoever.

Tony -
Never say never - stranger things have happened!!! :D:D

[Tony Trout]

Tony -
Never say never - stranger things have happened!!! :D:D


True...but I still don't think he would've married her....

[SweetCaroline]

Speaking of the will made me wonder this. Since he did put something in his will for any lawfull children he may have, did he really entertain the idea of getting married again and having children? I'm thinking that maybe 30 percent he did but 70 he thought, not likely.


MissyM....
That is pretty much lawyer boiler plate language in the will. Quite the standard to cover any future "lawful" children, so I would not read to much into the will. Not that Elvis didn't want more children at some point, but simply that you can't tell much by basic boiler plate language in a will what his feelings were in that regard.

I do notice more things that were left out....like Ginger....whom he was engaged to at the time. (I have BIG doubts he was really going to marry her).

[The King's Queen]

MissyM....
That is pretty much lawyer boiler plate language in the will. Quite the standard to cover any future "lawful" children, so I would not read to much into the will. Not that Elvis didn't want more children at some point, but simply that you can't tell much by basic boiler plate language in a will what his feelings were in that regard.

I do notice more things that were left out....like Ginger....whom he was engaged to at the time. (I have BIG doubts he was really going to marry her).

No arguements from me on that one Carole! ;)(y)

[Jungleroom76]

True...but I still don't think he would've married her....

I don't believe he would have married Ginger either, Tony! :hmm:

I think toward the end of his life, he was beginning to see exactly what kind of a person she really was and although Ginger tells a much different story about the two of them making wedding plans, I suspect that Elvis probably had no intention of marrying her.

Just my humble little ol' opinion... :blush:

TCB!
Mike

[Jungleroom76]

Too bad he didn't marry Linda.

I agree completely ksimms2!!! (y)

In fact, I am almost 100% sure that if Elvis and Linda had indeed married, and Elvis had been able to stay faithful to her (which I know would have been a pretty tall order), Elvis would at the very least have lived much longer than he did...if not still be alive today! :hmm:

TCB!
Mike

[TotallyInsane]

MissyM....
That is pretty much lawyer boiler plate language in the will. Quite the standard to cover any future "lawful" children, so I would not read to much into the will. Not that Elvis didn't want more children at some point, but simply that you can't tell much by basic boiler plate language in a will what his feelings were in that regard.

I do notice more things that were left out....like Ginger....whom he was engaged to at the time. (I have BIG doubts he was really going to marry her).

Boiler plate???? Sounds like maybe you've worked with attorneys too???

[goodelvisgirl]

well i don't think he would have married ginger but maybee linda they seemed to be good for each other and i agree that maybee if he had stuck with her he might have lived longer but in my opinion elvis was a great family man and loved the idea of having a family but he also loved the idea of being free and single in a way i think if elvis could have had both like he did with cilla well for a while i think he woud have been happy and would have lived for many years in that respect but i think he would have loved more children a wife without the fame he would have been a great hard working family man but with the fame he wanted the family life and the other women he sure was a funny one but having a family and being elvis must have been tough it would have took a hell of a woman to put up with that and raise the kiddys after all cilla had enough would another woman walk out on him too i think he would have found it hard to trust again after losing is family as they sure seemed to mean everything to him

[utmom2008]

I think that had he never been famous....he would have made some lucky girl a GREAT husband. And no doubt...he would probably have had several children. But how will we ever know? :'( Again...we must speculate. ;)

I think he would have tried to be a great husband, but he still might have had the wandering eye. Let's face it...he would STILL be drop-dead gorgeous and women would STILL have been attracted to him. Some men are born with an eye for the ladies..and I think our man may have been one of them. :unsure::unsure:

[SweetCaroline]

Boiler plate???? Sounds like maybe you've worked with attorneys too???


More than we ever wanted to....Price of being in business though. :blink:
At least soon I will have one in the family so maybe a discount will be in order. :lol:

[GraceeD1970]

Imagine if there was another heir. Would have made things differently for the Graceland estate.

[The King's Queen]

Maybe he did want that involvement with one person. The being together, talking at night, snuggling next to each other. Holding someone close with no other hassles, just being together. Kissing someone that you know will be there the next morning. Someone who loves you no matter what. Talking about your innermost secrets with someone who hugs you, kisses your cheek and tells you everything will be alright. Someone to sit on the front porch with, holding hands

This is a great post! (y) Welcome aboard..!!!!;)

[utmom2008]

Maybe he did want that involvement with one person. The being together, talking at night, snuggling next to each other. Holding someone close with no other hassles, just being together. Kissing someone that you know will be there the next morning. Someone who loves you no matter what. Talking about your innermost secrets with someone who hugs you, kisses your cheek and tells you everything will be alright. Someone to sit on the front porch with, holding hands

Ohhhhh......and it should have been me.:blink::blush::blink:

[SweetCaroline]

Maybe he did want that involvement with one person. The being together, talking at night, snuggling next to each other. Holding someone close with no other hassles, just being together. Kissing someone that you know will be there the next morning. Someone who loves you no matter what. Talking about your innermost secrets with someone who hugs you, kisses your cheek and tells you everything will be alright. Someone to sit on the front porch with, holding hands

Hey, ELVIS, is that you? ;)

[The King's Queen]

Ohhhhh......and it should have been me.:blink::blush::blink:

Oh how we ALL wish we were the one...:blush:


Hey, ELVIS, is that you? ;)


:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao: :king::king: (y)

[Broussey]

Maybe he did want that involvement with one person. The being together, talking at night, snuggling next to each other. Holding someone close with no other hassles, just being together. Kissing someone that you know will be there the next morning. Someone who loves you no matter what. Talking about your innermost secrets with someone who hugs you, kisses your cheek and tells you everything will be alright. Someone to sit on the front porch with, holding hands


Love this!!!!!!^^^^^^^^
Its hard to say if he would have married ginger i dont think so but like said b4 you never know, from some of the movies i have seen it looks like he wasent i like the one when the maid or cook was talking about ginger she had this look on her face like ginger was bad for him then someone gave her a ? on Linda and a huge smile came over her face, i truly think linda and elvis were kindred sprits its too bad that she and elvis dident work out..

Elvis was married to his fans in a way it wold have taken a strong strong woman to stay with him ( i know i could have done it ) but what he needed was his momma some like her i wish he would have met a woman like that

In time i am sure he would have had more children,

[`Lo]

Love this!!!!!!^^^^^^^^
Its hard to say if he would have married ginger i dont think so but like said b4 you never know, from some of the movies i have seen it looks like he wasent i like the one when the maid or cook was talking about ginger she had this look on her face like ginger was bad for him then someone gave her a ? on Linda and a huge smile came over her face, i truly think linda and elvis were kindred sprits its too bad that she and elvis dident work out..

what movies your talking about? anyone?

[Broussey]

what movies your talking about? anyone?

Sorry not a movie but the E! true hollywood store i think it was the last days of elvis... If i can remember right

[Merry]

IMO...I believe that Elvis did in fact entertain thoughts of having more children. And I believe that he also wanted to have a 'family' to spend his golden years with...but he never saw those. I'm not so sure that he was out there tearing off his toenails trying to find a new wife who could give him more kids...:blink:...but I do think that Elvis knew that the lifestyle he was maintaining was not really a good environment for children. With Elvis, I have always thought that his life started spiraling out of control and he just got lost somewhere in the cyclone of his own fame. I think that had he never been famous....he would have made some lucky girl a GREAT husband. And no doubt...he would probably have had several children. But how will we ever know? :'( Again...we must speculate. ;)



I love your loving replies, Lea.

Hugs,
Kimmi

[Merry]

Maybe he did want that involvement with one person. The being together, talking at night, snuggling next to each other. Holding someone close with no other hassles, just being together. Kissing someone that you know will be there the next morning. Someone who loves you no matter what. Talking about your innermost secrets with someone who hugs you, kisses your cheek and tells you everything will be alright. Someone to sit on the front porch with, holding hands


I think that this sounds like every woman's dream, too.

:D

[The King's Queen]

I love your loving replies, Lea.

Hugs,
Kimmi


I think that this sounds like every woman's dream, too.

:D

Thank you Kimmi. I guess my love for Elvis consumes me sometimes...:supriced: :D

As for the 'new' poster...He does have a way with words, huh? ;)

[Getlo]

Elvis may have given her an "engagement" ring but he had no intention of marrying Ginger Alden...none whatsoever.

Elvis' behaviour was so erratic by then, I think that - had he lived - he would have gone through with it.

It would have been another drug-fuelled adventure; something to occupy his increasingly bored mind.

And it would have fallen to crap quick smart.

[MissyM]

I don't know Getlo, I think people can hit rock bottom and change their lives. With Elvis What Happened" coming out, it could have gone two ways, 1-him slump into a deeper pit than ever or 2-he straighten his life out. I don't think however it would have been Ginger he married and had children with.
Maybe it was just legal mumbo jumbo, but Elvis seemed the happiest when Lisa was around.

[KPM]

You want to try and legally cover all bases in legal documents, it is pretty common to make provisions for any future children in most big wills. It saves the trouble of having to rewrite the will everytime you have another child. If he never had any other children-fine nothing lost. If he did have some its taken care of from the moment they are born-no lapse in coverage for that childs birthrights.

[cameron]

Elvis' behaviour was so erratic by then, I think that - had he lived - he would have gone through with it.

It would have been another drug-fuelled adventure; something to occupy his increasingly bored mind.

And it would have fallen to crap quick smart.

You thought a lot of Elvis, huh ? :blink:

[Getlo]

You thought a lot of Elvis, huh ? :blink:

Yes. And for longer than you ... despite your being related to him (not!).

But I choose to look at him without blinders.

By 1977, he was out of control, a virtually helpless drug addict and surrounded by cronies who could/would not say the words "No, Elvis".

My contention is that he would have gone through with the marriage, gone into it headfirst like he did everything else, until it fell to pieces - and with possibly a second child involved.

As it was, death was probably the best thing that could have happened to him then - especially seeing as there was no sign whatsoever of him getting out of his tragic cycle.

[cameron]

Yes. And for longer than you ... despite your being related to him (not!).

But I choose to look at him without blinders.

By 1977, he was out of control, a virtually helpless drug addict and surrounded by cronies who could/would not say the words "No, Elvis".

My contention is that he would have gone through with the marriage, gone into it headfirst like he did everything else, until it fell to pieces - and with possibly a second child involved.

As it was, death was probably the best thing that could have happened to him then - especially seeing as there was no sign whatsoever of him getting out of his tragic cycle.

Definition of contention:
The act or an instance of striving in controversy or debate. See synonyms at discord.
A striving to win in competition; rivalry: The teams met in fierce contention for first place.
An assertion put forward in argument.

Actually, it's only your opinion. There's many other valid opinions out here .;)
Most of your friends think he would not have married her . On that one, I agree with them.

I'm glad I think more highly of him than some .
{I never knew we measured time spent as a fan.}|
It just takes some a longer time to see the good in people --it is hard sometimes . :P

[Getlo]

Most of your friends think he would not have married her.

Really? Spoken to/emailed them, have you?

I do not recall offering the opinions to this forum of any of my friends, most of whom are not fans as it happens.

But feel free to point out where any of my friends have offered an opinion here ... ;) Hardly likely as none of them are even TCB World members!

[cameron]

Really? Spoken to/emailed them, have you?

I do not recall offering the opinions to this forum of any of my friends, most of whom are not fans as it happens.

But feel free to point out where any of my friends have offered an opinion here ... ;) Hardly likely as none of them are even TCB World members!
I was referring to Elvis' " friends" that you usually agree with.
I thought you said you had no friends.:doh:

[MissyM]

Getlo, I have to disagree with the "cronies" opinion. They were as helpless as he to do anything about Elvis's problem. It was up to him to pull himself up by the bootstraps and turn his life around. He could have had he wanted to. And I think it was possible as he did before. And I also say it because I have seen people do it. I have watched people who I thought there is no way in the world! I have been one who saw them as who gonners, and they had a moment and did a complete 180 and make their lives worth living.

[The King's Queen]

Yes. And for longer than you ... despite your being related to him (not!).

But I choose to look at him without blinders.

By 1977, he was out of control, a virtually helpless drug addict and surrounded by cronies who could/would not say the words "No, Elvis".

My contention is that he would have gone through with the marriage, gone into it headfirst like he did everything else, until it fell to pieces - and with possibly a second child involved.

As it was, death was probably the best thing that could have happened to him then - especially seeing as there was no sign whatsoever of him getting out of his tragic cycle.

Getlo...blinders? I don't hear anyone disputing the fact that the man had some issues....:blink:

And as for his 'cronies'...you know I don't have much for the MM...but I tell you, his drug problem was in full swing before '77...and he had a wife and a Father at one time who took no action in trying to help him either. Personally...I believe that Linda may have done something...had THEY married. But maybe not...who knows?

It upsets me that you state that 'death was probably the best thing that could have happened to him'...:blink: Where does that thinking come from??? Since you don't believe in a 'hereafter'...how you could you think that??? You have me confused on this one....:hmm::blink:

[cameron]

Getlo...blinders? I don't hear anyone disputing the fact that the man had some issues....:blink:

And as for his 'cronies'...you know I don't have much for the MM...but I tell you, his drug problem was in full swing before '77...and he had a wife and a Father at one time who took no action in trying to help him either. Personally...I believe that Linda may have done something...had THEY married. But maybe not...who knows?

It upsets me that you state that 'death was probably the best thing that could have happened to him'...:blink: Where does that thinking come from??? Since you don't believe in a 'hereafter'...how you could you think that??? You have me confused on this one....:hmm::blink:

From all that his "friends" have said; you'd think someone could have put his rear in the hospital while his dad got a court order to keep him there .Sorry, I don't excuse any of them.

Getlo never confuses me ,though he tries.
I thought that was his job. :hmm: ;)

[MissyM]

Once an adult, no one can keep a person in a hosp. it is even very hard for a parent to do it. Plus he was in hospitals before and come on, doctors had to know there was a problem. But they coulldn't keep him against his will. Far as I know there were no "interventions" done back then.
He had to want it himself. I just wonder what would have made him want to? Seems like coming close to death didn't do it. Wanting to do it for Lisa didn't. He had to want to live and see it possible to make a happy life for himself some how.
At his age you would have thought that settling down again was what he wanted. Maybe he just didn't think it fair to a mate. What drove him to cheat?

[cameron]

I have to disagree with that, Missy. It was much easier to get a court order to keep someone in a hospital then than it is today.
IMO, no one wanted to cross him. Whether that meant losing their "meal ticket" or no one had the "balls" to face his wrath.
In the final say; no one could have made it happen except Vernon.
On that I can agree, but Vernon could have and didn't.

[utmom2008]

Once an adult, no one can keep a person in a hosp. it is even very hard for a parent to do it. Plus he was in hospitals before and come on, doctors had to know there was a problem. But they coulldn't keep him against his will.

That's not entirely true Missy. We have just learned that with the Britney Spears debacle these past few months. If a hospital thinks a patient is in real trouble they can place what is called a "5150" on them and hold them for 14 days.:supriced::blink::blink:

[utmom2008]

Far as I know there were no "interventions" done back then.
He had to want it himself.

You're right...think back, if you did an intervention on someone there really wasn't any special facility to send someone to be educated about drugs, prescription or otherwise.:blink::blink: I have often wondered how Elvis would have done in these so-called "spa" rehabs(Dr. Phil's words). I try to picture this, get a visual and it almost makes me laugh.:blink: Elvis.....getting massages, playing tennis and shopping on Rodeo Drive...all part of his treatment.:unsure::unsure:

[ehollier]

..... I have often wondered how Elvis would have done in these so-called "spa" rehabs(Dr. Phil's words). I try to picture this, get a visual and it almost makes me laugh.:blink: Elvis.....getting massages, playing tennis and shopping on Rodeo Drive...all part of his treatment.:unsure::unsure:

I have trouble with that image because he kept within his own little world, I don't know if he could have adjusted to something so out of his little world. I remember you telling me that he really still looked really good as late as 1974, and I went back and looked at the pictures and, after he spent the remaining months of 1973 (Oct.-Jan) getting better, he did look remarkable, almost like shades of his 1970 look. I guess because "the eyes are the window to the soul", as it is said, and his eyes are like magnets, already, it is easy to tell when he his problem was out of control and when he was thinking with a clear mind!!! ;););)

[cameron]

Actually, there were Rehab Centers all over the US. They had horse back riding ,sports etc. It just wasn't widely advertised until Betty Ford opened up hers. There was counseling on all kinds of mental illness .
In that time; men were considered "weak" if they needed help.
Too bad, as it might have helped him to cope.

[KPM]

Actually, there were Rehab Centers all over the US. They had horse back riding ,sports etc. It just wasn't widely advertised until Betty Ford opened up hers. There was counseling on all kinds of mental illness .
In that time; men were considered "weak" if they needed help. Too bad, as it might have helped him to cope.
Today if you go to a rehab center-you are almost given hero status for confronting your problem-not back then.

[utmom2008]

Today if you go to a rehab center-you are almost given hero status for confronting your problem-not back then.

YES...EXACTLY! It was considered very shameful with a "what's wrong with him attitude". Nowdays....you haven't completely arrived in show business until you have had at least 1 rehab trip.:supriced::blink:

[utmom2008]

I have trouble with that image because he kept within his own little world, I don't know if he could have adjusted to something so out of his little world. I remember you telling me that he really still looked really good as late as 1974, and I went back and looked at the pictures and, after he spent the remaining months of 1973 (Oct.-Jan) getting better, he did look remarkable, almost like shades of his 1970 look. I guess because "the eyes are the window to the soul", as it is said, and his eyes are like magnets, already, it is easy to tell when he his problem was out of control and when he was thinking with a clear mind!!! ;););)

When you mention the eyes being the window to the soul...watch this. It's very sad.....:sad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAkTAyJCWqM&feature=related

[utmom2008]

I guess because "the eyes are the window to the soul", as it is said, and his eyes are like magnets, already, it is easy to tell when he his problem was out of control and when he was thinking with a clear mind!!! ;););)
Then...watch this clip. These 2 interviews are ONLY 3 months apart. I guess it's the difference in a bad day as opposed to a good day.:blush:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsGgfWCfw6w&feature=related

[KPM]

YES...EXACTLY! It was considered very shameful with a "what's wrong with him attitude". Nowdays....you haven't completely arrived in show business until you have had at least 1 rehab trip.:supriced::blink:
The world of 30 years ago was so very different than what is "the norm" today. Many do not realize how different it was.
The same is true about 1955 many do not see Elvis as revolutionary in music because they see him, and his music, as tame by todays standards. They have no comprehension of how different 1955 life and music were- before Elvis.

[ehollier]

Then...watch this clip. These 2 interviews are ONLY 3 months apart. I guess it's the difference in a bad day as opposed to a good day.:blush:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsGgfWCfw6w&feature=related

So you know what I am talking about during those last years when he was 'off' some of the concerts. But don't you just ABSOLUTELY LOVE those beautiful blue eyes in this interview???? OMG.........its so easy to get lost in them. ;););););)

[Getlo]

Getlo...blinders? I don't hear anyone disputing the fact that the man had some issues....:blink:

Hmm, you might need to read some of the posts on here again! :D


It upsets me that you state that 'death was probably the best thing that could have happened to him'...:blink: Where does that thinking come from??? Since you don't believe in a 'hereafter'...how you could you think that??? You have me confused on this one....:hmm::blink:

No, I don't believe in Heaven or any afterlife.

My thinking is this: As Elvis was in 1977, there were two ways he could have gone (had he lived beyond August 16th).

1. Cleaned himself up, got off the stuff, changed management etc etc ad infinitum, so he'd presumably still be alive today making great music.

2. Continuing with his substance abuse, non-challenging lifestyle, and getting himself deaper into whatever was his despair.

Now, I don't believe that on August 16th, 1977 there was any chance of No. 1 happening.

Please don't misunderstand that I was ever happy that he died! That's not it at all. And I certainly wish No.1 above had happened.

But it didn't. So given the choice between death for Elvis and continuing indefinitely on option No.2 above, I think death would be a blessed relief.

No more pain, sorrow ... the rut, drugs etc etc.

As for an afterlife, well, if you believe in it, then would you rather not see him relieved of his pain as well?

That's all I meant ...

[MissyM]

Can you imagine if Vernon was able to keep Elvis hospitalized.(and he was the only one who could..friends can not) I guess it could have been kept a secret..what do you think. If it got out the fall out could have been devastating. He would have had to say he was incompetant and a risk to himself. Talk about givng ammunition to Pricilla. And this is not a bashing thread to her. But one has to take that possibility into consideration. Losing Elvis's partial custody of Lisa would have killed him anyway. (of course it also could have turned him around) But I'm thinking the first case and the disgrace!
I guess it come down to believing that a stable marriage and more children is what he wanted. I just don't know. You'd think at that age being a grown up man in that area would be possible. But looking at his past relationships, maybe that kind of life wasn't. He seems a very restless man in various endevores. Several people think being able to tour Europe would have helped him. I wonder if eventually he would have bcome bored with that too.

[cameron]

Can you imagine if Vernon was able to keep Elvis hospitalized.(and he was the only one who could..friends can not) I guess it could have been kept a secret..what do you think. If it got out the fall out could have been devastating. He would have had to say he was incompetant and a risk to himself. Talk about givng ammunition to Pricilla. And this is not a bashing thread to her. But one has to take that possibility into consideration. Losing Elvis's partial custody of Lisa would have killed him anyway. (of course it also could have turned him around) But I'm thinking the first case and the disgrace! I guess it come down to believing that a stable marriage and more children is what he wanted. I just don't know. You'd think at that age being a grown up man in that area would be possible. But looking at his past relationships, maybe that kind of life wasn't. He seems a very restless man in various endevores. Several people think being able to tour Europe would have helped him. I wonder if eventually he would have bcome bored with that too.

There is no disgrace in being ill. That IS the way some think of it, even today. I see no reason why he would have lost custody of Lisa either .
Many "bad" parents never lose their children. IMO, Elvis was a good father , just not great husband material. Hard to believe some think this way. :doh:

Maybe, I am a tough parent. To me he would have been better off in a hospital or Rehab center, than dead.

I do think Elvis would have become bored again. Don't we all with the same old jobs, responsibilities? Maybe some of his family and "friends" could have helped him for once, instead of depending on him to do everything for them.

[The King's Queen]

I have to disagree with that, Missy. It was much easier to get a court order to keep someone in a hospital then than it is today.
IMO, no one wanted to cross him. Whether that meant losing their "meal ticket" or no one had the "balls" to face his wrath.
In the final say; no one could have made it happen except Vernon.
On that I can agree, but Vernon could have and didn't.

Cameron...I agree with your thinking on this (y)...with one exception. :blink::doh:

You seemed to have forgotten about the period where he had a wife...and unless I am wrong, the spouse would have superceded the parent on something like that. Together, Vernon and Priscilla could have done something. Now whether or not that would have cured him, is anybody's guess. Now after Pris exited stage left...;)...then yes, Vernon was the one who should have stepped up to plate. But...as you also pointed out...no one wanted to face the wrath of Elvis and risk losing their 'free ride'...not even Vernon. :supriced:

[The King's Queen]

Hmm, you might need to read some of the posts on here again! :D

Perhaps...but I was referring to cameron's post...and I didn't really see that he was being biased or wearing blinders...:D



No, I don't believe in Heaven or any afterlife.

My thinking is this: As Elvis was in 1977, there were two ways he could have gone (had he lived beyond August 16th).

1. Cleaned himself up, got off the stuff, changed management etc etc ad infinitum, so he'd presumably still be alive today making great music.

2. Continuing with his substance abuse, non-challenging lifestyle, and getting himself deaper into whatever was his despair.

Now, I don't believe that on August 16th, 1977 there was any chance of No. 1 happening.

Please don't misunderstand that I was ever happy that he died! That's not it at all. And I certainly wish No.1 above had happened.

But it didn't. So given the choice between death for Elvis and continuing indefinitely on option No.2 above, I think death would be a blessed relief.

No more pain, sorrow ... the rut, drugs etc etc.

As for an afterlife, well, if you believe in it, then would you rather not see him relieved of his pain as well?
That's all I meant ...

I see... For a minute is came across a bit crude sounding...even for you Getlo! ;) I do understand your point. He was obviously not a 'happy' person during the last phase of his life. And he was also a very ill man...which was sad to see. Yes...I very much believe in Heaven and the hereafter...and that alone brings me a little peace in knowing that the suffering that is done here on earth...will be no more on the other side. If Elvis made it there, then to answer your question...YES, I am glad that he finally has some rest and some peace, where he is free from the demons that tortured him and the illness that plagued him. But we won't know until we actually get there too... ;)

[The King's Queen]

[QUOTE=utmom2008;203532]Then...watch this clip. These 2 interviews are ONLY 3 months apart. I guess it's the difference in a bad day as opposed to a good day.:blush:QUOTE]

Your right Rosanne...the difference is apparent. Stevie Wonder could see that...;):supriced:

:hmm: Wouldn't you have liked to have been that belt buckle for just one minute??? :blink::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:(sorry all...I just couldn't resist that one! :blush:)

[MissyM]

But...as you also pointed out...no one wanted to face the wrath of Elvis and risk losing their 'free ride'...not even Vernon.
_____________
Who do you mean by free ride here? People had jobs and they did them. And I will say it again, the risk of him dying would end the "free ride". Dead boss, rides over. It makes no sense. Has anyone here watched someone you knew for years die a slow self-inflicted death. You'd have to be one cold harded beast to not have it effect you a lot. The helplessness is painful. So to even implying that is the case (that they selfishly took and were not effected...I think minimalizes their plight or saying it didn't hurt them too is so very harsh?

[KPM]

But...as you also pointed out...no one wanted to face the wrath of Elvis and risk losing their 'free ride'...not even Vernon.
_____________
Who do you mean by free ride here? People had jobs and they did them. And I will say it again, the risk of him dying would end the "free ride". Dead boss, rides over. It makes no sense. Has anyone here watched someone you knew for years die a slow self-inflicted death. You'd have to be one cold harded beast to not have it effect you a lot. The helplessness is painful. So to even implying that is the case (that they selfishly took and were not effected...I think minimalizes their plight or saying it didn't hurt them too is so very harsh?
I don't think anyone close to Elvis could not have felt pain in seeing him go downhill (some maybe more than others) But IMO it takes a heck of a lot of courage to step up and do what ever it takes-regardless of the cost- to try and get someone the help they need and maybe save a life. Not everyone has that courage. Its hard enough with regular folks who don't have money power or influence-but sometimes people do step in and do whatever it takes to save a life. It happened back then, it happens today. But it takes courage to take the action needed in these cases. Martin Sheen did it for Charlie Sheen in the not to distant past on the famous end of life. But people we have never heard of do this all the time-to try and save someone they love.

[utmom2008]

[QUOTE=utmom2008;203532]Then...watch this clip. These 2 interviews are ONLY 3 months apart. I guess it's the difference in a bad day as opposed to a good day.:blush:QUOTE]

Your right Rosanne...the difference is apparent. Stevie Wonder could see that...;):supriced:

:hmm: Wouldn't you have liked to have been that belt buckle for just one minute??? :blink::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:(sorry all...I just couldn't resist that one! :blush:)

Belt buckle??? I would have settled for the pants.:supriced:;);):lmfao:

[utmom2008]

You'd think at that age being a grown up man in that area would be possible. But looking at his past relationships, maybe that kind of life wasn't. He seems a very restless man in various endevores. Several people think being able to tour Europe would have helped him. I wonder if eventually he would have bcome bored with that too.

There is so much truth to that statement Missy. I think he was an EXTREMELY restless man who wasn't even sure himself what he was searching for.:unsure: We all agree that Elvis was special, that he was different. Who knows?? Maybe it was all part of a master plan. His time here with us was short...but he left such a mark that he will never be forgotten. When I think about the term RIP, I think it's especially true for Elvis...or at least I would like to think so.:blink::blush::sad:

[utmom2008]

But...as you also pointed out...no one wanted to face the wrath of Elvis and risk losing their 'free ride'...not even Vernon. :supriced:

I would change that term not even Vernon to especially Vernon. Vernon retired at the ripe old age of 40...what in the world would he have done without Elvis??:blink::blush::blink:

[utmom2008]

I do understand your point. He was obviously not a 'happy' person during the last phase of his life. And he was also a very ill man...which was sad to see. Yes...I very much believe in Heaven and the hereafter...and that alone brings me a little peace in knowing that the suffering that is done here on earth...will be no more on the other side. If Elvis made it there, then to answer your question...YES, I am glad that he finally has some rest and some peace, where he is free from the demons that tortured him and the illness that plagued him. But we won't know until we actually get there too... ;)

Not one thing to add to this post Lea, except maybe I agree with you 1000%.(y)(y)

[presley31]

I don't think anyone close to Elvis could not have felt pain in seeing him go downhill (some maybe more than others) But IMO it takes a heck of a lot of courage to step up and do what ever it takes-regardless of the cost- to try and get someone the help they need and maybe save a life. Not everyone has that courage. Its hard enough with regular folks who don't have money power or influence-but sometimes people do step in and do whatever it takes to save a life. It happened back then, it happens today. But it takes courage to take the action needed in these cases. Martin Sheen did it for Charlie Sheen in the not to distant past on the famous end of life. But people we have never heard of do this all the time-to try and save someone they love.

I agree KPM (y)

[cameron]

I think everyone has covered it pretty well.
From some of my experiences within my own family, sometimes you just do what you have to do. Everyone gets P'O'd for awhile, but we all get over it.
{that was something I had to learn. I didn't automatically know that ;) }

[utmom2008]

Everyone gets P'O'd for awhile, but we all get over it.

Great words of wisdom. I'm thinking of having it put on my tombstone one day.;):lol:

[The King's Queen]

_____________
Who do you mean by free ride here? People had jobs and they did them. And I will say it again, the risk of him dying would end the "free ride". Dead boss, rides over. It makes no sense. Has anyone here watched someone you knew for years die a slow self-inflicted death. You'd have to be one cold harded beast to not have it effect you a lot. The helplessness is painful. So to even implying that is the case (that they selfishly took and were not effected...I think minimalizes their plight or saying it didn't hurt them too is so very harsh?

Who got a 'free ride'??? The same ones who are still riding his coat tails to this very day. Look, I'm not saying they were not 'affected' by his death...of course they were. But pretty much every book put out by the MM will contain a passage where they say that they never really figured that Elvis would die...soooo...up until very near to the end, I think they thought that Elvis would outlive them. Matter of fact, that is exactly what Lamar, Marty and Billy all stated in their book! And by the time that they actually saw that he was going down FAST, it was too late to do anything...because according to them, Pris wouldn't attempt it while they were married, and Vernon never tried to step in either. You know, those guys have stated openly that they wanted to stay there and work for Elvis...and many of them have looked back now and said that they always thought that Elvis would provide for them in his will. Matter of fact, Billy says he saw just such a will himself! So, even if you don't call it a 'free ride'...it was a far cry from getting out and earning it by the sweat of your brow.

[The King's Queen]

[QUOTE=The King's Queen;203614]

Belt buckle??? I would have settled for the pants.:supriced:;);):lmfao:

:blush:Ah yes...especially the zipper!:supriced:;):lol:

[MissyM]

I've watched far too many loved ones self-distruct before my eyes, and not been able to do a darn thing about it. Still am matter of fact. Sometimes all you can do is let go, pray, and be there in case they see the light, and be a friends too. Cause many leave that can't handle watching. No one should die alone, unloved because they do not have the strenght to get help.

[The King's Queen]

I've watched far too many loved ones self-distruct before my eyes, and not been able to do a darn thing about it. Still am matter of fact. Sometimes all you can do is let go, pray, and be there in case they see the light, and be a friends too. Cause many leave that can't handle watching. No one should die alone, unloved because they do not have the strenght to get help.

I agree Missy...and I think we all have seen this within our own families as well. I know I certainly have. And even though I never changed his mind about what he did...I bucked him to the point that he at least slowed down. I couldn't take the bull by the horns, because it was my Mom's place to do that and she didn't have the courage...but if she had ever stepped out of the picture, you bet your bippy I would have done whatever was necessary! Not to hurt or alienate him...but in hopes that when the dust finally did settle, that he would see that it was done out of love for him.

[MissyM]

And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. There is a fine line one walks. You run the risk of losing them because you did something too. And then, the guilt after is so hard to deal with. You blame yourself, and sometimes it takes years to get over it. I just don't think there is a right and wrong. It depends on who is in control, who has power, who is willing to back you up. But it doesn't work often. And sometimes you even wish you had done nothing. Because sometimes just loving them is giving them the dignitiy to live their lives as they choose (bad mistakes and all-but it is their life) We want to do what we can to save them, keep them around so we don't have to feel all the guilt, and grief. And we wish we had just let it go and enjoyed whatever time we had left with them. It is a horrid position to be in. I have done both. I have felt the joy of it working and dispare of it not and wish I had known nothing would work at that point. Wished I had the time back however short. And I can't imagine it being Elvis. With still so much to live, enjoy and give. Bad enough the reality of it being someone I dearly loved.

[KPM]

And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. There is a fine line one walks. You run the risk of losing them because you did something too. And then, the guilt after is so hard to deal with. You blame yourself, and sometimes it takes years to get over it. I just don't think there is a right and wrong. It depends on who is in control, who has power, who is willing to back you up. But it doesn't work often. And sometimes you even wish you had done nothing. Because sometimes just loving them is giving them the dignitiy to live their lives as they choose (bad mistakes and all-but it is their life) We want to do what we can to save them, keep them around so we don't have to feel all the guilt, and grief. And we wish we had just let it go and enjoyed whatever time we had left with them. It is a horrid position to be in. I have done both. I have felt the joy of it working and dispare of it not and wish I had known nothing would work at that point. Wished I had the time back however short. And I can't imagine it being Elvis. With still so much to live, enjoy and give. Bad enough the reality of it being someone I dearly loved.
I agree-and everyone has to choose which way to go. (as did the people around Elvis) No guarantees- is a fact in everyones life.

[MissyM]

Exactly and I think we still feel so bad for losing him that we so want to think that he could have been saved if others tried harder. But that no one will ever know. I'd give anything to not have said anything to my father. I'd gladly shut my mouth now, looking back. With all that troubled him and how wacky he was acting, I'd give my last red cent to just be still, allow him to do what he thought he had to, and enjoy one more meal of catfish and hush puppies in the kitchen. The more I tried the angrier he got and it put a wedge between us. I should have known that as stubborn and hard headed my father was...he was going to do things his way. He always had. I've learned to live with it. I was as angry with myself as I was with him and it took me 5 years to forgive us.

[ahickey48]

if you have elvis by the presleys the documentary there is a quote of him saying " i was a lonely child but errr .... maybe my kids wont be" and them priscilla says "we already had a name picked out for another child" then there is a quote where elvis says " but no one would ever take the place of that first one" hope this helps! if you have the documentary its about 30 mins into it. ginger also claimed that her and elvis were getting married in december of 1977, how true this is i am uncertain.

I think Elvis would of gotten married again, however I don't think that he would of married Ginger. I think that she was just a fill in until he could find someone better. Just my thought.:hmm: I am not sure how everyone feels, but I don't care that much for Ginger. I wish that him and Linda could of stayed together.

[The King's Queen]

I think Elvis would of gotten married again, however I don't think that he would of married Ginger. I think that she was just a fill in until he could find someone better. Just my thought.:hmm: I am not sure how everyone feels, but I don't care that much for Ginger. I wish that him and Linda could of stayed together.


You probably won't get many arguements over that last line! (y)

[KPM]

Exactly and I think we still feel so bad for losing him that we so want to think that he could have been saved if others tried harder. But that no one will ever know. I'd give anything to not have said anything to my father. I'd gladly shut my mouth now, looking back. With all that troubled him and how wacky he was acting, I'd give my last red cent to just be still, allow him to do what he thought he had to, and enjoy one more meal of catfish and hush puppies in the kitchen. The more I tried the angrier he got and it put a wedge between us. I should have known that as stubborn and hard headed my father was...he was going to do things his way. He always had. I've learned to live with it. I was as angry with myself as I was with him and it took me 5 years to forgive us.
I understand what you are saying-but if you had succeeded you might still be enjoying catfish and hush puppies with him today. I applaud the effort you made-you did your best so IMO you have nothing to feel bad about.
The what ifs of life which can haunt us all- can never be answered. In my life the people who would'nt shut their mouth are why I am here-so thats the other side of it.
You never know-you just have to do what you thinks best at the time.(y)

[The King's Queen]

I understand what you are saying-but if you had succeeded you might still be enjoying catfish and hush puppies with him today. I applaud the effort you made-you did your best so IMO you have nothing to feel bad about.
The what ifs of life which can haunt us all- can never be answered. In my life the people who would'nt shut their mouth are why I am here-so thats the other side of it.You never know-you just have to do what you thinks best at the time.(y)

KPM...this is a great post! (y):notworthy I agree with you...Missy should have NO regrets whatsoever. She did her best...and she did what she knew would be best for him...so, even though it didn't work out like she had hoped, she still put out the effort. And that alone says "I love you"...(y)

It is true that we never know what will work and what won't. I think it is great that the people around you loved you enough to not shut up! I know you appreciate all they did to get you back on track. And I'm glad too...cause I really enjoy your posts, and I am glad that you are around! ;)

[cameron]

KPM always shows great insight.
It's not always easy to do what needs to be done.

My kids know I will continue to "interfere" in their lives if they're about to hurt themselves. ;) They can complain all they want. I don't want to have to go to the cemetary to visit them. They seem to "get it" because I've always been this way. :P

[utmom2008]

KPM...this is a great post! (y):notworthy
I know you appreciate all they did to get you back on track. And I'm glad too...cause I really enjoy your posts, and I am glad that you are around! ;)

KPM.....Lea is right on track with that comment. We all enjoy your compassionate thoughts and opinions. It's because of where you have been and what you have seen that gives great insight into your opinions. Tell everyone who had a hand in bringing you around that here at TCB World we all say Thank You!!