Do you believeElvis could have done it better if Col. Tom Parker was not his manager?

[ricardo b. prospero]

I often wonder and ask this question after reading some negative feedbacks on how the late Col. Tom Parker handled Elvis phenomenal career. Why he refused performances outside the United States and why he turned down important movie roles for Elvis and let his talent as a promising actor go to waste. How he manipulated business transactions for him to gain more than what Elvis will get and many more sad stories having Elvis at the receiving end. What if somebody else played the part of his manager ? Could Elvis have achieved more mileage in his career?

[Diane]

I personally think the Colonel was probably the best agent Elvis could have had to start off his career but by the time Elvis did the '68 Special, the Colonel didn't keep up with the times and restricted Elvis too much in the directions he wanted to go. At that time Elvis would not have had any problem finding someone better that would have jumped at the chance to work with him. I really feel he should have made the change then.

Diane

[Getlo]

The Colonel should've been gone just after Elvis got out of the Army.

Signing Elvis up to the abysmal G.I.Blues should have been an indication of where the old bugger wanted to take Elvis' career.

Yes, it would've cost Elvis money, but he'd have made it up in the long run.

And all that talk of The Colonel "holding" something (ie Vernon's jail time) over Elvis is just rubbish, IMO.

The Colonel was great in the beginning. But, after 1960, he was one of the very worst aspects of Elvis' life.

[franny]

I wonder if Elvis would have stayed with Sam Phillips, what kind of career would he have had?

Why didn't Elvis stay with him? :hmm:

franny

[presley31]

I was wondering the same thing, and why did col step in and take elvis away from sam?? If elvis had of stayed with sam l don't think elvis wouldn't of made movies.

[Getlo]

I was wondering the same thing, and why did col step in and take elvis away from sam?? If elvis had of stayed with sam l don't think elvis wouldn't of made movies.

Sorry, but The Colonel did no such thing!

He took over Elvis management in late '55 and convinced RCA to buy Elvis' contract for $35,000.

Sam Phillips needed money to pay off business debts, so he let Elvis go voluntarily. Sam knew his limits. He was great at what he did, but knew jack about the music world outside of Memphis and the South.

Rightly or wrongly, he knew Elvis would be better off under the Colonel.

Had Elvis stayed with Sam, he wouldn't have broken as big as he did, and his career would've stalled, at least in the short term.

Sam could quite easily have said that he was keeping Elvis. No one came in and "took" him.

[ksimms2]

The main thing I have against the Col. is not letting him perform in Europe like he wanted to. There is a whole other world out there that was never fortunate enough to see Elvis live.....and Elvis so wanted to go there too.

[Vissie]

The main thing I have against the Col. is not letting him perform in Europe like he wanted to. There is a whole other world out there that was never fortunate enough to see Elvis live.....and Elvis so wanted to go there too.

Many say that was due to the fact that the Col. would not have been able to obtain a passport without showing where he really was from.

[presley31]

Sorry, but The Colonel did no such thing!

He took over Elvis management in late '55 and convinced RCA to buy Elvis' contract for $35,000.

Sam Phillips needed money to pay off business debts, so he let Elvis go voluntarily. Sam knew his limits. He was great at what he did, but knew jack about the music world outside of Memphis and the South.

Rightly or wrongly, he knew Elvis would be better off under the Colonel.

Had Elvis stayed with Sam, he wouldn't have broken as big as he did, and his career would've stalled, at least in the short term.

Sam could quite easily have said that he was keeping Elvis. No one came in and "took" him.

yes the col did gelto, but l guess the movies and the books are lying.

[Getlo]

The main thing I have against the Col. is not letting him perform in Europe like he wanted to. There is a whole other world out there that was never fortunate enough to see Elvis live.....and Elvis so wanted to go there too.

Elvis could have gone to Europe, Australia, Japen etc, especially in the early days.

The lack of a world tour had little to do with the Colonel. After all, Elvis went to Germany without him for nearly two years.

Yes, Elvis wanted to go overseas (or so he said, but I never believed him), but he made his choice to stay home. Early on, it was probably him wanting to stay home after being away so long, then getting caught in the movie rut.

But in the seventies, it was the guns and drugs that prevented him from going overseas. There were no medical "connections" in other countries, so Elvis would've been screwed. And he could never have taken his guns on a plane either.

Yes, Elvis could've gone for a world tour. But the Colonel is not to blame for it never having taken place.

[Getlo]

yes the col did gelto, but l guess the movies and the books are lying.

And what is your source, presley31??? Your attribution?

The Colonel did not steal Elvis Presley from Sam Phillips.

[presley31]

whatever gelto you know everything

[Getlo]

Many say that was due to the fact that the Col. would not have been able to obtain a passport without showing where he really was from.

Sorry, but this theory does not add up.

Elvis went to Germany without the Colonel; he could easily have gone on a tour without his manager there to guide him.

The passport theory is one of the reasons why the Colonel didn't go overseas, not Elvis.

[Getlo]

whatever gelto you know everything

Fine, don't answer the question ... again.

By mid 1955 Sam's studio experienced financial difficulties, and he sold Elvis' contract in November of that year; RCA Records' offer of $35,000 beat out Atlantic Records' offer of $25,000. Through the sale of Elvis' contract, Sam was able to boost the distribution of Carl Perkins' song Blue Suede Shoes, and it became Sun Records' first national hit.

Sam went on to be very successful in the 60s and 70s and beyond. But when Elvis worked with him, he was struggling.

And that's why he sold the contract. That's when Parker stepped in.

That's what happened.

[Vissie]

Elvis could have gone to Europe, Australia, Japen etc, especially in the early days.

The lack of a world tour had little to do with the Colonel. After all, Elvis went to Germany without him for nearly two years.

Yes, Elvis wanted to go overseas (or so he said, but I never believed him), but he made his choice to stay home. Early on, it was probably him wanting to stay home after being away so long, then getting caught in the movie rut.

But in the seventies, it was the guns and drugs that prevented him from going overseas. There were no medical "connections" in other countries, so Elvis would've been screwed. And he could never have taken his guns on a plane either.

Yes, Elvis could've gone for a world tour. But the Colonel is not to blame for it never having taken place.

His lack of a world tour had everything to do with the Col. Secondly, being drafted into the army has nothing to do with an entertainer performing a concert tour in Europe.

The guns and drugs prevented him? You really need to get out of the back alley and step into the sunshine. Your conjecture is almost amusing. No medical connections? Believe me, anyone around Elvis could've made any connection he wanted, medical or otherwise. And the guns? How are you determining they prevented him from going? We're not talking about post 9/11 security measures.

[Getlo]

His lack of a world tour had everything to do with the Col. Secondly, being drafted into the army has nothing to do with an entertainer performing a concert tour in Europe.

The guns and drugs prevented him? You really need to get out of the back alley and step into the sunshine. Your conjecture is almost amusing. No medical connections? Believe me, anyone around Elvis could've made any connection he wanted, medical or otherwise. And the guns? How are you determining they prevented him from going? We're not talking about post 9/11 security measures.

Your naivete is genuinely staggering, but I'm not going to get into a urinating contest about this one.

Keep reading, Vissie, keep reading ... ;)

[presley31]

Fine, don't answer the question ... again.

By mid 1955 Sam's studio experienced financial difficulties, and he sold Elvis' contract in November of that year; RCA Records' offer of $35,000 beat out Atlantic Records' offer of $25,000. Through the sale of Elvis' contract, Sam was able to boost the distribution of Carl Perkins' song Blue Suede Shoes, and it became Sun Records' first national hit.

Sam went on to be very successful in the 60s and 70s and beyond. But when Elvis worked with him, he was struggling.

And that's why he sold the contract. That's when Parker stepped in.

That's what happened.

Theres more to that story than what your saying, but hey l'am not right

[presley31]

Your naivete is genuinely staggering, but I'm not going to get into a urinating contest about this one.

Keep reading, Vissie, keep reading ... ;)

Vissie has every right to say things here just you and the rest, try to accept people views on things or don't answer at all.

[ksimms2]

Sorry, but this theory does not add up.

Elvis went to Germany without the Colonel; he could easily have gone on a tour without his manager there to guide him.

The passport theory is one of the reasons why the Colonel didn't go overseas, not Elvis.

Getlo, didn't the Colonel refuse to help Elvis book shows overseas? This would be the reason Elvis didn't go - because the Col. refused to book anything for him......???

[ksimms2]

If Elvis tried to go against the Col. he refused to help him book shows, etc. as a manager does....he would pitch a fit. That's what I have learned from reading, etc.

[Diane]

I agree with Vissie. If Elvis had wanted medical connections in Europe he would have gotten them. And far as the guns, he'd already made a flight or two with them. They were or course domestic flights but it has already been proven time and again that Elvis could get passed regulations. He got into the White House didn't he?:lol:

Diane

[Getlo]

From Sonny West himself. And don't pooh-pooh this theory just because he was one of the "evil" MM either. The guy was there, and - on this theory at least - I believe him.

Q: What did you think of the Colonel?

A: You know, so much has been written about him that's just plain wrong. When he heard that Elvis died, I know his heart must have skipped three beats. I know it. He loved Elvis, I don?t care what anybody says. I'll never forget, after the opening night in Vegas in '69, the Colonel came in to the dressing room and said, 'Where's my boy?', threw his arms around Elvis, and had tears going down his cheeks. People have criticised him for not wearing a suit at Elvis' funeral, but that was just the Colonel. There was talk that he was an illegal alien and that's why Elvis never went overseas. Not true. The Colonel was illegal, but he was very good friends with Senator Lyndon Baines Johnson, who later became our president. So the Colonel could have asked him to fix things up for him, there was no reason why the Colonel couldn't go to other countries. I tell you, I think he was the best manager ever. I learned so much for him when we travelled together doing security for Elvis' shows, he was an amazing man.

Q: So why didn?t an overseas tour eventuate?

A: Two reasons: the guns and the pills. At the end, Elvis couldn?t do without either, and you can't get that sort of stuff through airport security, no matter who you are. And the Colonel had no contacts over there really, so it became out of the question. It's kind of why they put together the Aloha show. If Elvis couldn't come to the people in person, they'd do it by satellite.

[presley31]

l read that to kelly, that the col would hold anything he had to stop elvis from doing what elvis wanted to do.

[Vissie]

Your naivete is genuinely staggering, but I'm not going to get into a urinating contest about this one.

Keep reading, Vissie, keep reading ... ;)

Getlo, I'm done with you trying to undermine and diminish my posts because of your inferred superior knowledge of "Elvis".

One more crack and I'm blocking you. Your call.

[presley31]

I agree with Vissie. If Elvis had wanted medical connections in Europe he would have gotten them. And far as the guns, he'd already made a flight or two with them. They were or course domestic flights but it has already been proven time and again that Elvis could get passed regulations. He got into the White House didn't he?:lol:

Diane
good points diane(y)

[Getlo]

Getlo, I'm done with you trying to undermine and diminish my posts because of your inferred superior knowledge of "Elvis".

One more crack and I'm blocking you. Your call.

Ok, add me to your "ignore/block" list, I don't mind either way ... up to you.

I present facts as I see them; I certainly don't mind if people choose to agree or disagree with me.

And it's "implied", by the way, not "inferred". ;)

[Getlo]

Vissie has every right to say things here just you and the rest, try to accept people views on things or don't answer at all.

And yet, you never said word when Vissie posted this (before my comments to him, I might add) ... "You really need to get out of the back alley and step into the sunshine. Your conjecture is almost amusing".

Strange ... ;)

I will respond to posters with a tinge of sarcasm, only if they respond to me first in the same passive-aggressive manner. As you will see from this post, I wasn't the one who got snarky first.

I am all for healthy debate, but one cannot be expected to allow snarky comments like that above to go ignored, can one?

But back to the topic at hand.

The Colonel should've been jettisoned soon after the army years. Who knows how much better Elvis' career would've been then! (y)

[Sonny]

Take it easy please! Stick to the topic, no personal attacks!

Sonny

[Vissie]

Ok, add me to your "ignore/block" list, I don't mind either way ... up to you.

I present facts as I see them; I certainly don't mind if people choose to agree or disagree with me.

And it's "implied", by the way, not "inferred". ;)

It's inferred.

Welcome to ignore.

[presley31]

Take it easy please! Stick to the topic, no personal attacks!

Sonny

Thank you Sonny:D

[Getlo]

Theres more to that story than what your saying,


Then what is your take on the management change in '55?

[Getlo]

It's inferred.

Welcome to ignore.

Glad to be there. I'll still respond to your threads, Vissie; I don't know why you got so het up about it.

And it's "implied" ...

[ksimms2]

Sonny, I really like your avatar, it matches your name.....pretty cool! (I know, off topic, but have been wanting to tell you that for a while)

[ksimms2]

guys I certainly do not claim to know all about Elvis, that is why I come here to the forums to learn from the rest of you - some know more than others. I only know what I've heard and read so far.....I sure hate to see you guys argue about stuff like this though.....I think we can all learn from each other.

[presley31]

I agree kelly, if opinions were accepted then it wouldn't be a big problem.

[Sonny]

Thanks ksimm!

[Vissie]

Thanks ksimm!

No.. it's...

Thank you, thank you very much...

;) :lol:

[Sonny]

True Vissie!

Thank you very much! lol!

[ksimms2]

lol Vissie! :)

[presley31]

hahahah@vissie

[Vissie]

Heehee.. my pleasure :blush:

[Diane]

Love having you here Vissie. You've been a great addition to this site. (y)(y)

Diane

[Vissie]

Love having you here Vissie. You've been a great addition to this site. (y)(y)

Diane

Oh my.. now I'm really blushing! http://sunny.zandalea.biz/112705/blushing02.gif Thanks so much for your lovely compliment Diane (((hugs)))

[ilovelvis]

I think Tom Parker was the best for Elvis in the beginning. I wish Elvis would have gotten a new manager in the early 70's, but don't forget, ELVIS himself needed to change his ways to "do better". In any case, I would have liked to see Elvis under someone's else's management in the concert years.

[jak]

Elvis knew that phillips had limitations.On Sun records Elvis was a regional star.He wanted bigger things.Parker was the perfect choice.He was an absolute genious.His fault was a lack of an artistic vision for Elvis later on.By 1960 Parker was expendable.It's incredibly naive though to blame Parker for most of the bad descions in Elvis' career.Elvis himself lost his creative drive and that's responsible for most of his career problems.Elvis didnt make things happen,he just let them happen.He needed someone to guide him which was a shame.
Another point about Phillips.He needed the money back then from selling Elvis' contract.It worked out perfect for him and Elvis and was mutually beneficial for both.Phillips bought into the Holiday Inn hotel chain if my memory is correct.If somebody implied the Col stole Elvis they are greatly mistaken.The sum paid for Elvis' contract was huge at the time.
Jak

[medleyofcostumes]

The thing Tom Parker didn't do was to keep Elvis motivated. First a decade in Hollywood, then almost a decade of live concerts. The Aloha from Hawaii was a sort of a challenge to Elvis. He had to wait 4 1/2 years for the next challange - the CBS Special. Unfortunately, Elvis did not raise to the challenge - it was too little too late. In my opinion, Tom Parker could have done any of the following to keep Elvis on his toes in the 1970's:

1. Fewer tours during the year with only 1 15-day Vegas season - filming parts of each tour or season for video / dvd release. This could have led to varied shows with interesting setlists IMO.
2. A non-musical film every year
3. The leading role in a tv series similar to 'TJ Hooker' or 'Kojak'
4. A gospel tv special
5. Hosting a tv show similar to 'The Andy Williams Show' or the 'Tom Jones Show'
6. A world tour
7. Hosting a tv special on the birth of rock'n'roll
8. Recording a duets album with other artists he admired

etc etc

Unfortunately, for Elvis most of all, none of the above happened.

[Diane]

From all I've read, you are correct Jak. Elvis lost a lot of his creative drive while making his movies....here we go back to depression again, but I do believe it played a big part in Elvis' emotional make-up.

Diane

[Getlo]

Another point about Phillips.He needed the money back then from selling Elvis' contract.It worked out perfect for him and Elvis and was mutually beneficial for both.Phillips bought into the Holiday Inn hotel chain if my memory is correct.If somebody implied the Col stole Elvis they are greatly mistaken.The sum paid for Elvis' contract was huge at the time.
Jak

Exactly, jak! (y)(y)

[Getlo]

The Aloha from Hawaii was a sort of a challenge to Elvis. He had to wait 4 1/2 years for the next challange - the CBS Special.

I agree with most of your post here medley, except this one point. I don't see Elvis In Concert was any great challenge for Elvis. All he had to do was show up as normal (well, with more makeup than usual maybe! ) and do the two shows.

As for hosting his own TV show? Well, it would have had to have been better than Tom Jones' or Andy Williams' ones. They were certainly of their time.

[medleyofcostumes]

Exactly my friend - those shows were for that time - contemporary for the 70's. The Tom Parker formula appeared to be - if it was successful then, it will be now - if the 1956 - 1958 movies were good and successful, let's do 10 years of movies. The same applies to concerts. Most of the 'projects' I mentioned were fashionable in the 1970's. Viewed with the eyes of the 21st century, they seem old fashioned. If Elvis lived through the 80's maybe he would have stared in a series like 'Miami Vice' - projects which were contemporary at the time.

[KPM]

Sorry, but this theory does not add up.

Elvis went to Germany without the Colonel; he could easily have gone on a tour without his manager there to guide him.

The passport theory is one of the reasons why the Colonel didn't go overseas, not Elvis.
ALex Shoofey the International Hotels Manager told of a meeting he arranged by an overseas backer who wanted Elvis for one night
THe COl wanted 2 million-the guy agreed. The Col wanted the guy to finance a movie-the guy agreed. The Col finally wanted 1 million the next day on his desk just for the col. The guy agreed and Parker said "We dont want to go overseas? Shoofey said he could not believe it. The Col probably had to be
choking on his cigar to pass up that much money.
We discussed this in another thread not long ago. My opinion is Elvis wanted to go in 70-71 any interview he gave he mentions this and in one I recall he says its in the works. Parker told ELVis for years "its not the right time" Parker told him when he went to Germany and the story the press gave was that COl. Parker would stay home and keep Elvis in the 90% tax bracket while he served his country. Parker kept his illegal alien status secret for 40 years. He managed Hank Snow and Eddy Arnold and never booked them outside the US (not even Mexico where country music was big) Arnold was a very big star at one time he was second behind Elvis as the biggest RCA record seller. The money that Elvis lost because he never toured Europe is probably in the tens of millions.
I don't think its so cut and dry to say it was all Elvis and his problems-the COl had his also.

[The King's Queen]

Very well stated KPM...(y)

You know, JMO, but I think that the Colonel viewed Elvis as his ticket to easy street...that should be a given due to the fact that he handled only Elvis for so many years. Col. was not a stupid man, by any stretch of the imagination, and he knew what Elvis was worth to him. Elvis had a great deal of confidence in the Col. at the beginning, from what I know of it, but I am of the impression that he was changing his way of thinking later on.

IMO, the Col. got the best end of it. Elvis, had he chosen to do so, could have expanded much more without the Col. in later years. I don't buy the theory of "drugs and guns" keeping Elvis from touring outside of the States...it just doesn't make sense to me. I think the Col. called the shots on that, and Elvis, for some reason, just let him.

[presley31]

I'am speechless, you said that perfect lea, well done.

[ksimms2]

Jen speechless??? Come on now!!!! ;) (just kidding honey...)

[marijaep]

Very well stated KPM...(y)

You know, JMO, but I think that the Colonel viewed Elvis as his ticket to easy street...that should be a given due to the fact that he handled only Elvis for so many years. Col. was not a stupid man, by any stretch of the imagination, and he knew what Elvis was worth to him. Elvis had a great deal of confidence in the Col. at the beginning, from what I know of it, but I am of the impression that he was changing his way of thinking later on.

IMO, the Col. got the best end of it. Elvis, had he chosen to do so, could have expanded much more without the Col. in later years. I don't buy the theory of "drugs and guns" keeping Elvis from touring outside of the States...it just doesn't make sense to me. I think the Col. called the shots on that, and Elvis, for some reason, just let him.

I agree with you Lea (y) Thank you :D

[franny]

Elvis knew that phillips had limitations.On Sun records Elvis was a regional star.He wanted bigger things.Parker was the perfect choice.He was an absolute genious.His fault was a lack of an artistic vision for Elvis later on.By 1960 Parker was expendable.It's incredibly naive though to blame Parker for most of the bad descions in Elvis' career.Elvis himself lost his creative drive and that's responsible for most of his career problems.Elvis didnt make things happen,he just let them happen.He needed someone to guide him which was a shame.
Another point about Phillips.He needed the money back then from selling Elvis' contract.It worked out perfect for him and Elvis and was mutually beneficial for both.Phillips bought into the Holiday Inn hotel chain if my memory is correct.If somebody implied the Col stole Elvis they are greatly mistaken.The sum paid for Elvis' contract was huge at the time.
Jak


Thanks, jak! I often wondered why Elvis didn't stay with Phillips and now I know! (y)

franny

[KPM]

Elvis knew that phillips had limitations.On Sun records Elvis was a regional star.He wanted bigger things.Parker was the perfect choice.He was an absolute genious.His fault was a lack of an artistic vision for Elvis later on.By 1960 Parker was expendable.It's incredibly naive though to blame Parker for most of the bad descions in Elvis' career.Elvis himself lost his creative drive and that's responsible for most of his career problems.Elvis didnt make things happen,he just let them happen.He needed someone to guide him which was a shame.
Another point about Phillips.He needed the money back then from selling Elvis' contract.It worked out perfect for him and Elvis and was mutually beneficial for both.Phillips bought into the Holiday Inn hotel chain if my memory is correct.If somebody implied the Col stole Elvis they are greatly mistaken.The sum paid for Elvis' contract was huge at the time.
Jak
Great talent does not translate into greatest business man, or most savvy on other matters. It does not even translate into- knows which ways to use the talents to best advantage. If you can just raise a finger to get screams-why do more? IMO that may have started the creative rot.

[jak]

Great talent does not translate into greatest business man, or most savvy on other matters. It does not even translate into- knows which ways to use the talents to best advantage. If you can just raise a finger to get screams-why do more? IMO that may have started the creative rot.

Why should one create when all one has to do is appear?

[rocknroll]

I don't get where people think Parker stole Elvis from Sam Phillips. It is common knowledge (even admitted by Sam) that to expand, Sun needed the money Elvis could bring and he knew RCA could make Elvis bigger than he could.

As for the world tour in the '70's....remember, Parker worked for Elvis, not the other way around. Elvis was his own man. If he REALLY wanted to tour overseas, he would have. Most of you all give Parker Waaaaaay too much credit.

[presley31]

The Mini elvis series shows the col bossing sam around about elvis, but l guess that not true than.

[The King's Queen]

I don't get where people think Parker stole Elvis from Sam Phillips. It is common knowledge (even admitted by Sam) that to expand, Sun needed the money Elvis could bring and he knew RCA could make Elvis bigger than he could.

As for the world tour in the '70's....remember, Parker worked for Elvis, not the other way around. Elvis was his own man. If he REALLY wanted to tour overseas, he would have. Most of you all give Parker Waaaaaay too much credit.

Hey rocknroll! I am with you about Sam selling EP...I thought that was common knowledge...:hmm:

I don't give Col. that much credit...(n) I just think that it's a great possibility that with Elvis' state of mind being clouded...Parker very well could have manipulated him quite a bit...don't you think? :hmm:

[ricardo b. prospero]

I have nothing personal against the late Col. Tom Parker but if you look at the picture as whole you will realize he did more harm than good to Elvis career.He had more vested interest than honest concern for the welfare and advancement of Elvis career. He is simply
like the other vultures who have taken advantage and capitalized on Elvis status. I sincerely believe Elvis was destined to be great with out Col. Tom Parker and it was only incidental that fate made him to play the part of his manager. What a pity !

[rocknroll]

The Mini elvis series shows the col bossing sam around about elvis, but l guess that not true than.

Holy Cow!!! Is this what you use as a source???

[presley31]

Holy Cow!!! Is this what you use as a source???
nope l didn't use it as a souce, but when making things like that they should be more turthful, gives new elvis memebers the wrong idea.

[ricardo b. prospero]

What Col. Tom Parker did at the early stage of Elvis career was indeed a giant task propelling him to stardom and there is no argument about it. The real issue now was how did he sustained the honest interest to keep the ball rolling at the right place. Understandable, he deserve a piece of the cake but not to the extent of slicing it to have the bigger slice. We all agree Elvis has the potential to be a good actor the likes of his idols Marlon Brando and James Dean but he never got the chance to prove himself after the Col. Tom Parker opted to make him a hot commercial merchandise for more revenues. We all know the responsibilities and function of a manager besides the financial angle. Sad to say Col. Tom Parker failed Elvis in all aspects of their partnership.

[Getlo]

I don't get where people think Parker stole Elvis from Sam Phillips. It is common knowledge (even admitted by Sam) that to expand, Sun needed the money Elvis could bring and he knew RCA could make Elvis bigger than he could.

Thank you, rocknroll.

Presley31, you still haven't given your slant on the management takeover of '55 ...

[jak]

"As for the world tour in the '70's....remember, Parker worked for Elvis, not the other way around. Elvis was his own man. If he REALLY wanted to tour overseas, he would have. Most of you all give Parker Waaaaaay too much credit"

You are exactly right.The belief that the Col kept Elvis on a short leash or exercised mind control on him drives me nuts.As I have said so many times, Elvis didnt get off his rear that often during that time frame to do much of anything to keep his career revitalized.How could you expect an artist that didnt even know what his album covers looked like or even cared,get motivated for a world tour?Elvis had a great resurgence in 68 that didnt last but a few years.He didnt sustain enough personal momentum to go through with such an idea.
Jak

[presley31]

"As for the world tour in the '70's....remember, Parker worked for Elvis, not the other way around. Elvis was his own man. If he REALLY wanted to tour overseas, he would have. Most of you all give Parker Waaaaaay too much credit"

You are exactly right.The belief that the Col kept Elvis on a short leash or exercised mind control on him drives me nuts.As I have said so many times, Elvis didnt get off his rear that often during that time frame to do much of anything to keep his career revitalized.How could you expect an artist that didnt even know what his album covers looked like or even cared,get motivated for a world tour?Elvis had a great resurgence in 68 that didnt last but a few years.He didnt sustain enough personal momentum to go through with such an idea.
Jak

I really don't agree Jak but good points

[Vissie]

What Col. Tom Parker did at the early stage of Elvis career was indeed a giant task propelling him to stardom and there is no argument about it. The real issue now was how did he sustained the honest interest to keep the ball rolling at the right place. Understandable, he deserve a piece of the cake but not to the extent of slicing it to have the bigger slice. We all agree Elvis has the potential to be a good actor the likes of his idols Marlon Brando and James Dean but he never got the chance to prove himself after the Col. Tom Parker opted to make him a hot commercial merchandise for more revenues. We all know the responsibilities and function of a manager besides the financial angle. Sad to say Col. Tom Parker failed Elvis in all aspects of their partnership.

Ricardo, you make some excellent points. I'm looking forward to learning more about the Col.

[jak]

I just dont see any evidence that Elvis actually paid much attention to his career after as early as 1971 1972.I dont know if any other popular artist had such a hands off approach as Elvis.He truly didnt get involved.Elvis himself lacked an artistic vision or chose to ignore it.Combine that with a manager who was strictly business orientated and you have a recipe for disaster in Elvis' case.Elvis' shouldnt needed to be held by the hand for everything.He needed to take the simple step of saying this is what I want to do next.One thing I always point out in this kind of thread discussing his career is what became of Elvis' recording career in the 70's.Elvis recorded more classics than anyone early on.Yet Elvis abandoned his recording career after 71 for the most part.Getting him into the studio was like pulling teeth.Hence the famous "jungle room sessions" which only happened because Elvis just wouldnt record anymore in the studio even though he had contractual obligations.Wouldnt you think his music would be especially important to him?If he gave up on that Im not so sure another manager could have motivated Elvis to strive for greater things.
Jak

[jak]

What Col. Tom Parker did at the early stage of Elvis career was indeed a giant task propelling him to stardom and there is no argument about it. The real issue now was how did he sustained the honest interest to keep the ball rolling at the right place. Understandable, he deserve a piece of the cake but not to the extent of slicing it to have the bigger slice. We all agree Elvis has the potential to be a good actor the likes of his idols Marlon Brando and James Dean but he never got the chance to prove himself after the Col. Tom Parker opted to make him a hot commercial merchandise for more revenues. We all know the responsibilities and function of a manager besides the financial angle. Sad to say Col. Tom Parker failed Elvis in all aspects of their partnership.

I agree with some of your statement but Parker didnt fail Elvis in all area's.He did in fact make Elvis the biggest star in the world.Parker was a visionary in the early years.He recoginized the importance of tv for example.When Elvis got drafted Parker had looked ahead and had new recordings to release while Elvis was away to keep him in the limelight.He made Elvis rich beyond his dreams.The merchandising skills of Parker were unequalled.Parker probably would have been a fine manager for Elvis' entire career if Elvis would have exercised more creative control.I think it's obvious Elvis went for the cash over atristic goals just like the Col. on many occassions.
Jak

[Vissie]

I just dont see any evidence that Elvis actually paid much attention to his career after as early as 1971 1972.I dont know if any other popular artist had such a hands off approach as Elvis.He truly didnt get involved.Elvis himself lacked an artistic vision or chose to ignore it.Combine that with a manager who was strictly business orientated and you have a recipe for disaster in Elvis' case.Elvis' shouldnt needed to be held by the hand for everything.He needed to take the simple step of saying this is what I want to do next.One thing I always point out in this kind of thread discussing his career is what became of Elvis' recording career in the 70's.Elvis recorded more classics than anyone early on.Yet Elvis abandoned his recording career after 71 for the most part.Getting him into the studio was like pulling teeth.Hence the famous "jungle room sessions" which only happened because Elvis just wouldnt record anymore in the studio even though he had contractual obligations.Wouldnt you think his music would be especially important to him?If he gave up on that Im not so sure another manager could have motivated Elvis to strive for greater things.
Jak

Jak, from the get-go he was told exactly what he could and could not do career-wise. He accepted it and then became a by-product of it. A cycle was born. When you have an entire entourage and family depending on you to bring home the money, dole out the perks and keep everyone together it is no longer a simple matter of breaking free to pursue your own interests. As Elvis sings.. "I'm caught in a trap".

I heartily disagree that Elvis didn't care about his music career. In fact, I believe that music was part of his soul.

[presley31]

l agree vissie, music was very dear to him.

[Vissie]

I agree with some of your statement but Parker didnt fail Elvis in all area's.He did in fact make Elvis the biggest star in the world.Parker was a visionary in the early years.He recoginized the importance of tv for example.When Elvis got drafted Parker had looked ahead and had new recordings to release while Elvis was away to keep him in the limelight.He made Elvis rich beyond his dreams.The merchandising skills of Parker were unequalled.Parker probably would have been a fine manager for Elvis' entire career if Elvis would have exercised more creative control.I think it's obvious Elvis went for the cash over atristic goals just like the Col. on many occassions.
Jak

Very well put Jak.

[Vissie]

l agree vissie, music was very dear to him.

Especially gospel music ~

[jak]

Jak, from the get-go he was told exactly what he could and could not do career-wise. He accepted it and then became a by-product of it. A cycle was born. When you have an entire entourage and family depending on you to bring home the money, dole out the perks and keep everyone together it is no longer a simple matter of breaking free to pursue your own interests. As Elvis sings.. "I'm caught in a trap".

I heartily disagree that Elvis didn't care about his music career. In fact, I believe that music was part of his soul.

I must disagree.I will use the example of Elvis' early sessions for RCA.Here you had a young fresh faced Presley.In charge was the hulking figure of Steve Sholes.Supposedley the "boss".Elvis was still green at this point.However it was clear that Elvis was the boss.Elvis went against Sholes and recorded take after take until he was satisfied.It's a legendary event in his career.Sholes was at his wit's end.This happened because Elvis cared at this point.A brash youngster taking on a big RCA executive.Elvis took charge when he cared enough to do so.How about the 68 special?He defied the Col on that one by trashing the xmas show theme.
As far as Elvis caring about his music career.If he cared so much why didnt he record in the studio anymore?He just didnt want to.Im not sure if you are aware of the problems RCA had with Elvis in the 70's.Elvis came close to being sued by them because he wouldnt produce anymore.His lack of caring for that phase of his career was shown in his live shows nightly.
Jak

[Vissie]

I must disagree.I will use the example of Elvis' early sessions for RCA.Here you had a young fresh faced Presley.In charge was the hulking figure of Steve Sholes.Supposedley the "boss".Elvis was still green at this point.However it was clear that Elvis was the boss.Elvis went against Sholes and recorded take after take until he was satisfied.It's a legendary event in his career.Sholes was at his wit's end.This happened because Elvis cared at this point.A brash youngster taking on a big RCA executive.Elvis took charge when he cared enough to do so.How about the 68 special?He defied the Col on that one by trashing the xmas show theme.
As far as Elvis caring about his music career.If he cared so much why didnt he record in the studio anymore?He just didnt want to.Im not sure if you are aware of the problems RCA had with Elvis in the 70's.Elvis came close to being sued by them because he wouldnt produce anymore.His lack of caring for that phase of his career was shown in his live shows nightly.
Jak

I appreciate your post Jak. It gives me something to think about (and read up on).

However, I still feel that music was always an intrinsic motivation for him. He always cared about the music. But, maybe other things were pressuring him?

[presley31]

l think elvis cared about the music and the fans too. Elvis did want to tour all over, for reasons unknown he didn't get too.

[Diane]

Jak, there is no doubt that the Colonel was just the person to jump start Elvis' career in the beginning. Where I feel the Colonel went wrong was to sign him up for too many movies that took him away from the stage for all those years - just my opinion. Elvis should have put up a bigger fight to get out of those contracts or not have them written up in the first place since he himself knew they were becoming repetitive and a joke.

Now as to Elvis really wanting to tour overseas, you have some saying that he wasn't really trying to do it and now my being in the middle of Jerry's book, Jerry claims that Elvis brought the subject up often and wanted it badly but kept being repressed by the Colonel. Jerry claims Elvis bought the Lisa Marie in anticipation of making those overseas trips but it never happened.

You are right that Elvis seemed to get quite apathetic later on about a lot of thing including recording. We can't know what was in his mind to make him do that. Was it inherited depression or was it the drugs - or a combination of both? With him gone and not being able to be analyzed by a therapist, I don't think that question will ever be answered.

Diane

[jak]

Jak, there is no doubt that the Colonel was just the person to jump start Elvis' career in the beginning. Where I feel the Colonel went wrong was to sign him up for too many movies that took him away from the stage for all those years - just my opinion. Elvis should have put up a bigger fight to get out of those contracts or not have them written up in the first place since he himself knew they were becoming repetitive and a joke.

Now as to Elvis really wanting to tour overseas, you have some saying that he wasn't really trying to do it and now my being in the middle of Jerry's book, Jerry claims that Elvis brought the subject up often and wanted it badly but kept being repressed by the Colonel. Jerry claims Elvis bought the Lisa Marie in anticipation of making those overseas trips but it never happened.

You are right that Elvis seemed to get quite apathetic later on about a lot of thing including recording. We can't know what was in his mind to make him do that. Was it inherited depression or was it the drugs - or a combination of both? With him gone and not being able to be analyzed by a therapist, I don't think that question will ever be answered.

Diane

Hey Diane
Remember the Elvis interview on Hy Gardner.Elvis was asked if he'd rather be a singer or movie actor.Elvis himself said he preferred acting over singing.I think he's the one that jumped at the movie contracts.It was good at the start but did turn sour.Elvis still could have performed live whenever he wanted during this time.An Elvis film only took a few weeks to make.It was Elvis not Parker that decided not to perform live.Parker would have jumped at the exta money if Elvis had been willing.
Personally I dont think Elvis bought the Lisa Marie for overseas tours.It was just a matter of convenience and probably a nice toy to have.As much as he was touring here it was needed.
Elvis' lack of desire to go into the studio later on is a real shame.I dont see how anybody can argue he gave up on his recording career at this point.Elvis just lost his spark.Personally I like his voice later on during this period.It always seems to come back to apathy and his drug problem when you look at his output during the 70's.He just seemed tired of everything and couldnt find the energy he needed to right himself.I've always maintained the only person who could stop Elvis from doing anything was himself.
Jak

[Diane]

Yes, now I do remember that interview with Hy Garner and he did say he wanted to be an actor. The trouble was the scripts were not what he had envisioned. He really should have walked away from those films long before he did.

I do think you are right about his apathy Jak. I'd just like to know what caused it.

Diane

[jak]

Yes, now I do remember that interview with Hy Garner and he did say he wanted to be an actor. The trouble was the scripts were not what he had envisioned. He really should have walked away from those films long before he did.

I do think you are right about his apathy Jak. I'd just like to know what caused it.

Diane

I will put some blame on Parker for Elvis' film career.If nothing else he should have realized the films were beneath Elvis and weakened his credibility.Even though most were lame they made money and Elvis was paid very well for doing them.For Parker the business side won out at the expense of Elvis' artistic credibility.I still wonder why Elvis didnt go to the studio durign this time to record dome quality songs rather than the movie junk.And I do mean JUNK.
Jak

[Diane]

Yup, me too Jak. It seems like he gave up on that and that wasn't in his character earlier on. I don't get it either. Something caused a change in Elvis that he felt he needed the meds and that in turn may have caused the apathy...don't know. I'm just glad he didn't give up altogether and stopped singing. At least his voice was there until he died.

I still can't get around the no man is an island theory though - I really believe in that.

Diane

[KPM]

"As for the world tour in the '70's....remember, Parker worked for Elvis, not the other way around. Elvis was his own man. If he REALLY wanted to tour overseas, he would have. Most of you all give Parker Waaaaaay too much credit"

You are exactly right.The belief that the Col kept Elvis on a short leash or exercised mind control on him drives me nuts.As I have said so many times, Elvis didnt get off his rear that often during that time frame to do much of anything to keep his career revitalized.How could you expect an artist that didnt even know what his album covers looked like or even cared,get motivated for a world tour?Elvis had a great resurgence in 68 that didnt last but a few years.He didnt sustain enough personal momentum to go through with such an idea.
Jak
If I recall correctly even in the book we have been discussing in the other thread- Rev of the MM-somewhere they discuss how Parker had a control over Elvis and how Elvis depended on the Col. One of the guys even wondered what the Col had over Elvis which caused such control. Am I wrong or is that not discussed?
You are correct Parker worked for Elvis-doing what? To guide and promote Elvis and his career-that was his job. He always told Elvis- When the time is right. He turned down every huge offer which ever came his way for any overseas show or tour. i posted the Alex Shoofey story which is a prime example-he asked for the moon expecting to be turned down-every demand was met-he still turned it down. Unreal.

[jak]

I have no doubt that Elvis trusted Parker.My problem is with Elvis not expressing his desires to achieve other things in his career.Elvis was an insecure person.Parker kept the money rolling in and to a point I think that satisfied Elvis.Vernon was the same way.They were very poor and then they were very rich.I dont think Elvis wanted to rock the boat.At anytime Elvis could have picked up the phone and said arrange for a session I want to get some new music down.He could have rehearsed for his live shows and got creative there also.Does everybody realize he even stopped rehearsing for concerts?When you look at the things Elvis had total control over minus Parker he never did a thing on his own.You cant blame the Col for that.
Jak

[Patsy]

I agree with Diane...Elvis shouldve cut him loose in the late 60s

[KPM]

I have no doubt that Elvis trusted Parker.My problem is with Elvis not expressing his desires to achieve other things in his career.Elvis was an insecure person.Parker kept the money rolling in and to a point I think that satisfied Elvis.Vernon was the same way.They were very poor and then they were very rich.I dont think Elvis wanted to rock the boat.At anytime Elvis could have picked up the phone and said arrange for a session I want to get some new music down.He could have rehearsed for his live shows and got creative there also.Does everybody realize he even stopped rehearsing for concerts?When you look at the things Elvis had total control over minus Parker he never did a thing on his own.You cant blame the Col for that.
Jak
I do agree about the creative fire but IMO to be creative you have to mingle so to speak. Something has to perk your interests to want to create. Was Elvis allowed by Parker to truely interact musically with anyone of his own stature-no. When Nixon wanted him to perform at the WHite House did COl even consider allowing it-huge honor, great challenge to entertain the President and all the important people who would attend-No. Sure ELvis had lost his fire for probably a lot of reasons-decisions like these did not help.

[Vissie]

Thought I would share this ~ (she has a comment about the col)

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1/052506/Miscellaneous/cca34062.jpg

[Diane]

Nice article Vissie, thanks for posting. I'm almost 100% convinced Elvis was suffering from depression and the drugs compounded it. He just couldn't seem to make his mind up on anything anymore.

Diane

[medleyofcostumes]

Left me speechless!!

Nothing could save Elvis at this point!

[Vissie]

He always seemed so compassionate about his fans, didn't he?

[KPM]

I heard her tell that story on the Vicky Lawrence short lived talk show in the late 80s or early 90s. Vickys husband was a make up artist, he was the one who made up Elvis for the concerts which were filmed for the EIC special.

[rawkinlvs]

Elvis could have gone to Europe, Australia, Japen etc, especially in the early days.

The lack of a world tour had little to do with the Colonel. After all, Elvis went to Germany without him for nearly two years.

Yes, Elvis wanted to go overseas (or so he said, but I never believed him), but he made his choice to stay home. Early on, it was probably him wanting to stay home after being away so long, then getting caught in the movie rut.

But in the seventies, it was the guns and drugs that prevented him from going overseas. There were no medical "connections" in other countries, so Elvis would've been screwed. And he could never have taken his guns on a plane either.

Yes, Elvis could've gone for a world tour. But the Colonel is not to blame for it never having taken place.

exactly right on the narcotics and firearms, the quantity of narcotics would have put ELVIS and his doctors in a heap of s... also tom hullett haid said that thhe colonel had no problem in letting ELVIS tour overseas , as tom would be trusted to handle things , but ELVIS had his doubt's that he could committ to such a long tour and perform the usual 2 hour set that europeans expected from entertainers, and because of course ELVIS health, it was hard enough to get him up to do a 10 city tour nevermind a 60 day run, in a foreighn country , i believe E.P. played it safe.

[rawkinlvs]

whatever gelto you know everything

the story goes that parker told ELVIS and vernon if they wanted out , that they would have to pay him 2million , as he had already set up a million dollars worth of work and another million in merchandising, so ELVIS backed down and vernon advised him, that they didn't have the 2 mill to pay, again i'm only going on what i read concerning this,

[jak]

"Was Elvis allowed by Parker to truely interact musically with anyone of his own stature-no"

I have never heard of any indication of Elvis wanting to interact musically with anyone.Please give some examples of Elvis not being allowed these things by the Col.
Jak

[rawkinlvs]

about the colonel looking @ ELVIS as a meal ticket - ELVIS and vernon knew that the colonel looked at him as a source of income, from the begining, and a good thing to as he was consumed in finding ELVIS PRESLEY work , wheter it was in movies[albeit some real bad ones] , performances, tv appearnces, tours, merchandising, he did what he promised he made ELVIS PRESLEY a millionaire many times over, and the fact that ELVIS PRESLEY was his only client [other than george hamilton] was a great thing as he would only be focused on one client, i don't believe he evertold ELVIS that he would make him the most respectible, incedible actor/performer , he just told hm and vernon that he would make them money, and he acomplished this , even after ELVIS death he was still making ELVIS PRESLEY money.

[rawkinlvs]

I heard her tell that story on the Vicky Lawrence short lived talk show in the late 80s or early 90s. Vickys husband was a make up artist, he was the one who made up Elvis for the concerts which were filmed for the EIC special.

yes i had seen that some years ago, it's just to bad that the makeup really didn't hide the fact that his eyebrows were pretty faint[a vitamin d deffinency] and his colour complexion was ash.

[KPM]

yes i had seen that some years ago, it's just to bad that the makeup really didn't hide the fact that his eyebrows were pretty faint[a vitamin d deffinency] and his colour complexion was ash.
Also his eyebrows were dyed and mascared for so long the hair weakens and thins.

[Erhan]

I often wonder and ask this question after reading some negative feedbacks on how the late Col. Tom Parker handled Elvis phenomenal career. Why he refused performances outside the United States and why he turned down important movie roles for Elvis and let his talent as a promising actor go to waste. How he manipulated business transactions for him to gain more than what Elvis will get and many more sad stories having Elvis at the receiving end. What if somebody else played the part of his manager ? Could Elvis have achieved more mileage in his career?

he could do better career without Colonel and Pills!

[bestseller92]

"Colonel Tom Parker didn't help. I think a monkey could've managed Elvis, and maybe done a better job."

Waylon Jennings.

[ricardo b. prospero]

No matter how much credit we all give to the Col. he still sucks. Whether we admit it or not the man is a selfish, greedy bastard who never care about Elvis. He is a hungry vampire who never stop sucking the blood out of the man. He look upon Elvis as a simple business tool he manipulated to satisfy his hungry desire for more money. Perhaps, Elvis lack the true motivation to detach himself from this old vulture.

"You don't need to be smart to see what is behind the mask and spell the motive why
the Col. took Elvis"

[Suzan]

I think in the very beginning, nobody could have done what the Col. did to get Elvis exposure, I do however believe that from about 1962 on he was a determent to Elvis, and even though Elvis agreed to the 50/50 split I think he was sheltered and perhaps lied to by the Col. and did not maybe know that this was not the going rate that 10% was a much better percentage for a manager. JMO
I do also agree w/many that the Col. was greedy and only saw Elvis as a meal ticket...a cash cow so to speak. Again this is just my opinion.

[BrianK]

I have often wondered what Col. Parker did with his 50% of the money. Do you think there could be some safe deposit box somwhere filled with cash? We know that Elvis had a lot of fun spending his.:)

[SeeSeeRider777]

If Elvis would have listened to Steve Binder he would have gone all around to world, done great movies and reall really great music. The Col. was nothing but a crook, he had Elvis paying off his debt in Vegas. He was the first Don King.

[Suzan]

If Elvis would have listened to Steve Binder he would have gone all around to world, done great movies and reall really great music. The Col. was nothing but a crook, he had Elvis paying off his debt in Vegas. He was the first Don King.

I think the same way about Col. I have heard that he had enormous gambling debts and one of the creative ways he dwindled that debt was to have Elvis perform @ the Hilton.:(

[jak]

I think the same way about Col. I have heard that he had enormous gambling debts and one of the creative ways he dwindled that debt was to have Elvis perform @ the Hilton.:(

Elvis performed at the Hilton so often because he needed the money.Elvis was the one going broke.His career was not producing the cash flow it once was at that point.His records were not selling well anymore and the constant touring kept the cash flow coming.Obviously his remaining estate after his death showed what a miserable state his finances were in.
Jak

[Suzan]

Not at the beginning...and up to about 1976 his records were selling just fine.:D
Not saying he didn't spend, nor am I saying he didn't need the cash flow, I'm saying and so have a few other's on here, including those around Elvis, that Col. @ one time had a debt to the Hilton (gambling) somewhere in the vicinity of 2 million dollars. :D
Wow u love to just quote me huh? :D:D:D:notworthy lol

Please go back and read other's post's I am not alone in this opinion and am not the only one who has heard this. :D

[jak]

Not at the beginning...and up to about 1976 his records were selling just fine.:D
Not saying he didn't spend, nor am I saying he didn't need the cash flow, I'm saying and so have a few other's on here, including those around Elvis, that Col. @ one time had a debt to the Hilton (gambling) somewhere in the vicinity of 2 million dollars. :D
Wow u love to just quote me huh? :D:D:D:notworthy lol

Please go back and read other's post's I am not alone in this opinion and am not the only one who has heard this. :D

Elvis had a couple of good selling lp's.However during Elvis time the market was based on 45 sales.Elvis last #1 single was in 1969.Elvis' records stopped selling well overall long before 76.Elvis basically quit making records in the 70's.He was a live act.
The Col did gamble and have debts.It doesnt change the fact that Elvis needed the money.
I only quote those that need it.
Jak

[Suzan]

Then you better get to quoting! rof got a way's to go.
I'm honored, thank you.:D:D:D:D:D:D

Hey hmmm is someone forgetting his gospel albums? Of hey how about the singles? And I don't know about you, but to me 5 mil. in 1977 wasn't in need of money and lots more prior, and again if there was "hardly any" left then hey u suppose that had lots to do w/Col.'s contract?:hmm:

Shoot 5 mil. today isn't all that bad...rof

Me thinks someone is not too happy...rof ;) :D:D:D:D

[jak]

The fact that you think Elvis' financial situation was fine upon his death means you might need to do a little more research.Elvis' money crunch got really bad starting as far back as 73 when he sold the rights to his back catalog to get cash.The debacle of the CBS special was born out of necessity for cash.The failed raquetball courts.You can go on and on.I thought Elvis had less than 5million upon his death?Even if he did have the 5 it was nothing.He was headed for bankruptcy.I dont think you comprehend the costs he incurred keeping Graceland running along with everything else.He had a very large payroll of help also.The reason Elvis played the same cities over and over was the cash flow he needed.The fact is he wasnt selling many singles and lp's period anymore.Look at the charts.That's not an opinion but fact.Artists dont make the majority of their money on record sales.The record company gets the lion share of profit.Couple that with his poor sales and there you have it.Hence,the one nighters playing secondary markets.He kept the majority of profits from those tours.If anybody here think Mr Presley didnt have extremely serious money problems the last fews years they are greatlt mistaken.I thought this was common knowledge.
Jak

[Suzan]

I didn't say he DIDN'T have I said he wasn't BROKE...and hmmm Jak why don't u read up some, the reason he sold the catalog was @ Col.'s urging AND it satisfy the divorce settlement.
And no I don't think for 1977 5 mil. was bad, it could have been better, but hey again THANK YOU COL.! Heck I don't think 5 mil. is bad for today and if you do well wow is all I can say.
And so record sales slowed down, but he was still making money.
I don't care how you try to twist Jak...it boils down to the Col.. Gosh lets see in additon to advising Elvis to sell the catalog for 5 mil. to RCA (which by any standards at any time was a paultry amt. and HUGELY BAD ADVICE via the Col.) he also had him turn down movies that would have been lucrative for him had the "Col." done his job CORRECTLY AND WITHOUT GREED! :D
But hey you go right ahead and believe what you'd like...that is up to you...facts are facts where the Col. is concerned...and oh gosh lets not forget that EPE was advised to get rid of the Col. BY THE COURTS and his greed extended so far as to not only request payment for the buyout of his contract, in 1989 he sold to Pris Presley for 7 million dollars his Elvis' memoribilia, greedy to the end. lol
Thankyouthankyouverymuch! :D ;)

[jak]

I didn't say he DIDN'T have I said he wasn't BROKE...and hmmm Jak why don't u read up some, the reason he sold the catalog was @ Col.'s urging AND it satisfy the divorce settlement.
And no I don't think for 1977 5 mil. was bad, it could have been better, but hey again THANK YOU COL.! Heck I don't think 5 mil. is bad for today and if you do well wow is all I can say.
And so record sales slowed down, but he was still making money.
I don't care how you try to twist Jak...it boils down to the Col.. Gosh lets see in additon to advising Elvis to sell the catalog for 5 mil. to RCA (which by any standards at any time was a paultry amt. and HUGELY BAD ADVICE via the Col.) he also had him turn down movies that would have been lucrative for him had the "Col." done his job CORRECTLY AND WITHOUT GREED! :D
But hey you go right ahead and believe what you'd like...that is up to you...facts are facts where the Col. is concerned...and oh gosh lets not forget that EPE was advised to get rid of the Col. BY THE COURTS and his greed extended so far as to not only request payment for the buyout of his contract, in 1989 he sold to Pris Presley for 7 million dollars his Elvis' memoribilia, greedy to the end. lol
Thankyouthankyouverymuch! :D ;)

It's you who dont understand.I said he sold the contract because he needed the money.I never said it wasnt to help pay for his divorce.The need was there is what I said.Thanks for comfirming my post.Elvis having an estate worth 5 million is a joke in 1977.That was the total value of the estate if liquidated.Elvis had no cash.He was barley covering operating costs.You need to read more not me.I believe youre the one who blasted somebody and rushed to Elvis' defense for describing a scene out of Viva Las Vegas.Keep up the good fight kid.Youre doing a standup job.
Jak

[KPM]

Elvis performed at the Hilton so often because he needed the money.Elvis was the one going broke.His career was not producing the cash flow it once was at that point.His records were not selling well anymore and the constant touring kept the cash flow coming.Obviously his remaining estate after his death showed what a miserable state his finances were in.
Jak
Even though Elvis died in 1977 he is number 11 on the best selling artist of the 70s. Not selling well is subjective, if you compare it to the 50s (he was the number record seller) or the 60s (he was the number 2 record seller) he did not sell as well-but compared to a 100 other 70s artists he sold pretty good.
As far as his cash problem in the 70s I gave my opinion of what the Col. "could have done" which would have pumped millions into both their coffers in the 70s on another thread. We complain that Elvis lost his fire, became lazy well IMO the Col. also took the easiest path quick one time deals which he got more than Elvis. He did not manage Elvis "proactively" after 72.

[TurnpikeTaylor]

Those who say Elvis would`nt have made it without Parkers help are living in a dream world, Elvis was always going to hit it big with whoever managed him. Parker got away with it in the 50`s, but after 1960 he had no idea. Elvis made it despite Parker. Not that Parker did`nt have his good points, he was a good promotions man, if a little on the tacky side.

One point worth reminding ourselves is that Elvis signed off on all these contracts, so it always come back to Elvis.
Also regarding cash flow, if Elvis had been a little more mature regarding his spending habits, he would`nt have had to slog his way around the concert halls in his last years.


As for the 50% cut, was`nt that only regarding the Boxcar deal?

[KPM]

Those who say Elvis would`nt have made it without Parkers help are living in a dream world, Elvis was always going to hit it big with whoever managed him. Parker got away with it in the 50`s, but after 1960 he had no idea. Elvis made it despite Parker. Not that Parker did`nt have his good points, he was a good promotions man, if a little on the tacky side.

One point worth reminding ourselves is that Elvis signed off on all these contracts, so it always come back to Elvis.
Also regarding cash flow, if Elvis had been a little more mature regarding his spending habits, he would`nt have had to slog his way around the concert halls in his last years.


As for the 50% cut, was`nt that only regarding the Boxcar deal?
Sure it always comes back to ELvis-but the Col. had a job to manage and direct Elvis's career. Parkers job was to report offers or procur offers then recommend Elvis which to take and which to turn down. His job as manager was in business to get ELvis the most for his services and to advise him on fiancial matters. That is a managers job for any performer. Parker did not serve Elvis well in that capacity. Parkers sales pitch was you have the talent but you are not business savvy. I am business savvy trust me to do right for you. Parker did not always do right for Elvis. I posted this before-he never got Elvis the royalty rate on his records that the Beatles, Rolling Stones or Elton John had even. Number one record seller of the 50s, number 2 in the 60s? The sales records kept by RCA in the 50s and 60s were atrocious and Parker never called them on it. How many royalties did Elvis never see because of this? How many record sales does Elvis have which he gets no credit for because Parker never pushed this? He signed a long term deal with the International which the Internationals president Mr. Shoofey could not believe-he locked Elvis into for a pittance of what Shoofey was prepared to offer. THis was not in ELvis's best interest.
Doris Day trusted her Husband with her career and found out he had squandered all their money when he died.
John Wayne twice found out his managers had not handled his affairs properly and he rebuilt his financial life twice.
Fats Domino was 4 million in debt to the US because his manager had not paid all the taxes he owed over a number of years.
Willy Nelson also was indebt for years for taxes not being paid by his manager.
Jerry Lee Lewis, trusted his manager and was in tax trouble a couple of times etc etc etc.

[TurnpikeTaylor]

Yep the list of dodgy stuff with artists is a long one, ELO, Small Faces, David Bowie, Bob Mitchum, Chuck Berry etc etc

But its a little different with Parker, as everything he did was out in the open, he was hardly trying to hide things from Elvis, like the other celeb examples we have given.

By the way, i think Doris Day got her money back in the end.

[KPM]

Yep the list of dodgy stuff with artists is a long one, ELO, Small Faces, David Bowie, Bob Mitchum, Chuck Berry etc etc

But its a little different with Parker, as everything he did was out in the open, he was hardly trying to hide things from Elvis, like the other celeb examples we have given.

By the way, i think Doris Day got her money back in the end.
Doris Day in her autobiography states she was broke and had to do a TV series to rebuild her finances-but she never got back the several million she made.
Parker did not make it common knowledge that he was a "consultant" on the RCA payroll. Also that he lost millions in the hotels which he signed contracts for Elvis to perform and some of that debt was forgiven. The court in 1982 called it a conflict of interest if I'm not mistaken which helped severe the Col's ties to the estate.

[TurnpikeTaylor]

It may not have been "common knowledge" but i doubt Elvis did`nt know about Parkers consultant status with RCA, and the fact he was dropping millions at the Hilton casino.The guys around him knew all this.

I still seem to remember Doris sued her hubbys estate or something, and got all her money back..........it was many millions i seem to remember, it was a long to ago i read her biography so i forget the exact amount.

[KPM]

It may not have been "common knowledge" but i doubt Elvis did`nt know about Parkers consultant status with RCA, and the fact he was dropping millions at the Hilton casino.The guys around him knew all this.

I still seem to remember Doris sued her hubbys estate or something, and got all her money back..........it was many millions i seem to remember, it was a long to ago i read her biography so i forget the exact amount.
My point about the Col is not whether Elvis or the guys knew or not-it is conflict of interest when you negotiate for someone with a company you receive any remumeration from of any kind. Parker made a habit of it- it was not right nor fair to ELvis.
Doris could not sue anyone because they were still together when he died -it was then she found out she was broke-there was nothing except her home. There was no one to sue because he had just mishandled her money and had never told her they were living on her current income.

[Suzan]

Thank you KPM!!!!! :D:D For ALL you have said, I couldn't agree more.

Jak, lol, yes dear, your right.:D:D:D:D:D:D Wishing you a wonderful day. :) And please read my post...and other's responses, I said if I misread the post I was sorry but I was not mean on there, unlike some, why are some here mean and feel that they can voice their opinion and other's not?.
Hugs to you.

And oh my gosh the weather in FL must be wreaking havoc w/some peeps.:(

[jak]

Even though Elvis died in 1977 he is number 11 on the best selling artist of the 70s. Not selling well is subjective, if you compare it to the 50s (he was the number record seller) or the 60s (he was the number 2 record seller) he did not sell as well-but compared to a 100 other 70s artists he sold pretty good.
As far as his cash problem in the 70s I gave my opinion of what the Col. "could have done" which would have pumped millions into both their coffers in the 70s on another thread. We complain that Elvis lost his fire, became lazy well IMO the Col. also took the easiest path quick one time deals which he got more than Elvis. He did not manage Elvis "proactively" after 72.

Elvis is #11 because of the impact of his death.He had an incredible surge in record sales after passing which accounts for his high placement.The demand after his death was amazing.While alive with only a couple of exceptions his sales were very poor.He was lucky to crack the top 50 anymore with the type of material he was able to get recorded.
Part of the reason the Col took easy cash deals was that Elvis wasnt up to the challenge of anything else a good part of the time.I mentioned the CBS special.I know it has some good parts and i enjoy to watch some of it.However it was done soley out of Elvis' need for cash.It's the most tragic piece of footage ever shot concerning Elvis.I can still see that 19 year old kid's eyes while watching it and that makes it all the more sad.Elvis never would have let himself be filmed in that state if he had a choice.The Col wouldnt have allowed it either but his hands were tied.Elvis' finances were dismal.Maybe people dont realize how much it cost Elvis to maintain his lifestyle and properties.
Jak

[Suzan]

I wonder why EPE got rid of the Col. and why the courts advised them to do so, and why mangament there has nothing good to say about his "managing" skills, espescially Gary Hovey.
KPM you are sooo correct, thank you!:D:clap::hug:

[jak]

EPE got rid of the Col because they are as greedy if not more so than him.They have been more harmfull to Elvis' image than the Col ever was.This year's embracing of the ETA contest was unthinkable and the greatest abomination they ever could have perputrated.Now Im gonna go get me a reese's peanut butter banana cup.Thank god for EPE.
Jak

[Suzan]

I agree with you, imagine that.
Only place I disagree w/statement is that they were/are both equally harmful to/for him.

Anybody else have any opinion on this I would love to read another viewpoint.

[KPM]

Elvis is #11 because of the impact of his death.He had an incredible surge in record sales after passing which accounts for his high placement.The demand after his death was amazing.While alive with only a couple of exceptions his sales were very poor.He was lucky to crack the top 50 anymore with the type of material he was able to get recorded.
Part of the reason the Col took easy cash deals was that Elvis wasnt up to the challenge of anything else a good part of the time.I mentioned the CBS special.I know it has some good parts and i enjoy to watch some of it.However it was done soley out of Elvis' need for cash.It's the most tragic piece of footage ever shot concerning Elvis.I can still see that 19 year old kid's eyes while watching it and that makes it all the more sad.Elvis never would have let himself be filmed in that state if he had a choice.The Col wouldnt have allowed it either but his hands were tied.Elvis' finances were dismal.Maybe people dont realize how much it cost Elvis to maintain his lifestyle and properties.
Jak
Jak I realize the cost of his spending fully. But the Col.being in charge of Elvis's business contracts was in error on many important things I already mentioned-would a royalty increase to the stature Elvis should have had helped? I think yes-would the Col have been smarter to sign a short term deal with Shoofey in Vegas and got more money?(which Shoofey acknowledged he would have done) I think yes. Would the Col have been smarter to demand a full accounting for Elvis's sales in the late 60s to get Elvis the back royalties for sales which "slipped through the cracks'? I think so. We have already discussed the European tour I think the Col should have set up between 70 and 73 when Elvis seemed willing (at least on the surface) so I won't get into that but it would have been a huge money maker. Sure Elvis spent- but his earnings should have been and could have been so much more-if Parker had stayed on top of the situations I have mentioned.
If Parker had accepted the European deal Shoofey was privy to there was 2 million, plus a picture financed, and a million for Parker-he turned it down. The financial situation was bad but it could have been so much better if these things had been done IMO That was Parkers job and in the late 60s into the 70s he did it badly IMO
Speaking of the huge sales ELvis had after he died, what would the estates take have been if the Col. had not brokered the deal on the pre 73 catalogue. Lets look at a hypothetical and how it could have maybe played out.
Parker advises Elvis-"We cant sell the catalogue its 19 years of some of your biggest hits, but if you go to Europe we can make 10s of millions. You could net more in a couple of months of over there than a couple years of touring here. I think you need to do this the time is right" Would Elvis had said no? Thats the question.

[Suzan]

Jak I realize the cost of his spending fully. But the Col.being in charge of Elvis's business contracts was in error on many important things I already mentioned-would a royalty increase to the stature Elvis should have had helped? I think yes-would the Col have been smarter to sign a short term deal with Shoofey in Vegas and got more money?(which Shoofey acknowledged he would have done) I think yes. Would the Col have been smarter to demand a full accounting for Elvis's sales in the late 60s to get Elvis the back royalties for sales which "slipped through the cracks'? I think so. We have already discussed the European tour I think the Col should have set up between 70 and 73 when Elvis seemed willing (at least on the surface) so I won't get into that but it would have been a huge money maker. Sure Elvis spent- but his earnings should have been and could have been so much more-if Parker had stayed on top of the situations I have mentioned.
If Parker had accepted the European deal Shoofey was privy to there was 2 million, plus a picture financed, and a million for Parker-he turned it down. The financial situation was bad but it could have been so much better if these things had been done IMO That was Parkers job and in the late 60s into the 70s he did it badly IMO

Good grief THANKYOUVERYMUCH KPM...:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy
I can't agree w/u more where the Col. and money situation is concerned, YOU SOOOOOO ROCK!!!!!:notworthy:notworthy:clap:(y)

[jak]

Selling the back catalogue was a huge mistake but like I said Elvis needed that cash.After the deal Elvis actually went around bragging about the money he made.Elvis didnt have the pull at RCA anymore to increase his royalties.Like I said before RCA was on the verge of a lawsuit against Elvis because he was having so much trouble meeting his contractual obligations with them.The Col made Elvis the money but he was just foolish with it.Elvis' personal finances were no the Col business.Elvis needed a financiial adviser to take care of it for him.He tax shelters and better investments.Elvis had all the money he needed,he just didnt hold on to it.
Jak

[TurnpikeTaylor]

Like i wrote before, there are a lot of things Parker should`nt have done, but he did`nt exactly go sneaking around trying to hide things from Elvis. Elvis should have wised up to Parker by the 70`s, and fired him no matter what the cost.

By the way kpm, have just checked, and Doris Day sued her husbands business partner Jerry Rosenthal and won over $20 million.

[KPM]

Selling the back catalogue was a huge mistake but like I said Elvis needed that cash.After the deal Elvis actually went around bragging about the money he made.Elvis didnt have the pull at RCA anymore to increase his royalties.Like I said before RCA was on the verge of a lawsuit against Elvis because he was having so much trouble meeting his contractual obligations with them.The Col made Elvis the money but he was just foolish with it.Elvis' personal finances were no the Col business.Elvis needed a financiial adviser to take care of it for him.He tax shelters and better investments.Elvis had all the money he needed,he just didnt hold on to it.
Jak
That Elvis bragged to people shows how little Parker explained the deal and "if Parker thought it was a good deal" IMO it shows just how out of touch Parker had become. Elvis may have not had the pull from 74 on but from 68 till 73 he was still RCAs star in sales-several hit singles in that time, several good selling albums. This would have been the time for Parker to get Elvis what he deserved lesser talents were getting more than he in royalties I read an article in the 80s in Rolling Stone which mentioned this. Parker could have threatened to take Elvis elsewhere, no one would have wanted to lose Elvis (even the 1974-77 Elvis). The deal for the catalogue itself shows shows RCA had over "5 million in confidence" that his recordings were going to sell for a long long time. Sure Elvis should have had the tax shelters most people agree Elvis ands his dad did not like dodging taxes (probably because they had seen so many get into trouble for such things Chuck Berry, Fats Domino etc) and investments-unfortunately he left this in his fathers hands and we all know that was not wise. Elvis had his creative problems after 72- that I'll agree on- but money wise he should have had better deals and better guidance from Parker. If they were a team Parker is just as much to blame as Elvis. As I said earlier Parker could have set up several things which may have been creatively good for Elvis and said "You need to do this we'll make a ton of money"
I am willing to bet for every offer Parker told Elvis about there were a bunch he "deep sixed" -never mentioned.

[KPM]

Like i wrote before, there are a lot of things Parker should`nt have done, but he did`nt exactly go sneaking around trying to hide things from Elvis. Elvis should have wised up to Parker by the 70`s, and fired him no matter what the cost.

By the way kpm, have just checked, and Doris Day sued her husbands business partner Jerry Rosenthal and won over $20 million.

Well thats good I was in error should have done a search instead of remembering a book I read years ago,- but I knew she could not have sued her husbands estate because in essence she would have been suing herself in that case. Also The suit was not settled until 1985 which did not help her for quite some time-Melchers death was in 68 17-years time span. The point was she did what people do everyday she left things she was not experienced at to someone she trusted.
Heres info I found on Melchers death and where it left Day until the suit was settled
When Melcher, who had managed her career since their marriage, died in 1968, Day was in for a shock. Though she had spent the previous decade as one of the top-billing actresses of the silver screen, Melcher had squandered away her money, leaving her in serious debt. She was forced to file a lawsuit against her deceased husband’s business partner, Jerry Rosenthal, to recover.
But its good she got something back after all that time.

[Suzan]

That Elvis bragged to people shows how little Parker explained the deal and "if Parker thought it was a good deal" IMO it shows just how out of touch Parker had become. Elvis may have not had the pull from 74 on but from 68 till 73 he was still RCAs star in sales-several hit singles in that time, several good selling albums. This would have been the time for Parker to get Elvis what he deserved lesser talents were getting more than he in royalties I read an article in the 80s in Rolling Stone which mentioned this. Parker could have threatened to take Elvis elsewhere, no one would have wanted to lose Elvis (even the 1974-77 Elvis). The deal for the catalogue itself shows shows RCA had over "5 million in confidence" that his recordings were going to sell for a long long time. Sure Elvis should have had the tax shelters most people agree Elvis ands his dad did not like dodging taxes (probably because they had seen so many get into trouble for such things Chuck Berry, Fats Domino etc) and investments-unfortunately he left this in his fathers hands and we all know that was not wise. Elvis had his creative problems after 72- that I'll agree on- but money wise he should have had better deals and better guidance from Parker. If they were a team Parker is just as much to blame as Elvis. As I said earlier Parker could have set up several things which may have been creatively good for Elvis and said "You need to do this we'll make a ton of money"
I am willing to bet for every offer Parker told Elvis about there were a bunch he "deep sixed" -never mentioned.


:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:hug:
Again THANKYOUthankyouverymuch!

[TurnpikeTaylor]

The 73 deal was the sucker of all sucker deals, and the fact that Elvis agreed to it showed huge lack of judgement. Parker himself said he advised Elvis it was a bad deal, but he was duty bound to pass the offer on to Elvis ( i dont believe that though, because he probably floated the idea to RCA in the first place).

[Stryx]

Elvis took advantage of that deal in order to have some cash to pay Priscilla with for the divorce.

The King didn't have enough liquid cash to pay off Priscilla after she reneged on the original deal and started to look for more out of the divorce.

Strange though.....in hindsight it's Lisa Marie she has swindled with the strong sales of Elvis's back catalogue.

[SeeSeeRider777]

Some of it was Elvis' fault too. Yeah Elvis got lazy after Aloha, he went coo-coo after the divorce. The man was not there mentally. He did not want to come into the studio and when he did the music was junk. After Burning Love that was it. Elvis let himself get out of shape, he looked bad after 75. Also that payroll took a lot of money. There was no need for that type of Entourage. Also the drugs cost a lot too. Elvis was paying for his meds and most likely he was paying for the MM addictions too. Elvis spent like crazy. Elvis was managed wrong in every way (musically, financially) The Col. managed him wrong. He got Elvis to agree to 50%, thats a big reason he had no money, how the hell to you sell your music for 5 million?, how come he never left RCA? If the Col. pushed it he could have got a lot of money from another label. The Col never let Elvis go out of the US, never let Elvis do A Star is Born because he did not want to share billing. For the Col it was Elvis and Elvis only. He did not let Elvis do any of the music that he wanted because he wanted 50%. How the hell are you going to get any good songs with that? The Col had him doing Vegas over and over to pay debt. Elvis could have done apperances or something later in the 70's to get himself noticed with the younger generation. In the 77 special you saw a lot of older folks in the crowd. There were mistakes on all parts but a good % was the Col's.